Toxic Fans Push Director Away From Franchise Movies - SJU
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2024
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Our SJU panel talks directors feeling uneasy about making franchise movies and a big-picture discussion about the way fans and creators communicate! That plus other news from the world on screen - it's SJ Universe!
Toxic Fans Push Director Away From Franchise Movies - SJU
Hosted by Roth Cornet, Spencer Gilbert, Joe Starr and Dan Murrell
Produced by Billy A .Patterson
Production Engineer: Josh Tapia
Assistant Editor: Emin Bassavand
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Thanks for watching and joining the conversation everyone! Be sure the watch Charting W/ Dan which came out yesterday if you haven't gotten your box office fix for the week! We will NOT be live tomorrow but will be back live by Friday! There will still be awesome pre-taped episodes tomorrow and Thursday!
Charting link > th-cam.com/video/AGVDJot7nJ4/w-d-xo.html
One: Speak up and join the conversation- we encourage respectful debate.
Two: Respect your community- racism, misogyny, homophobia and hate speech aren’t tolerated.
Three: “Be nice.” - Dalton from Roadhouse
You’re welcome
ScreenJunkies News For the best 4th of the July to watched is JAWS
That's only part of the quote. "I want you to be nice until it's time to not be nice." - Dalton from Roadhouse.
One thing to love about this show is their capacity to have genuine disagreements and not go awol over it. I do agree that show media is a bit of an enabler for more confrontational folks though!
Yea, i love the SJ folks, though they have such differing opinions sometimes, they're still all in good attitude and respect. They're passionate without the unreasonable animosity that many other presenters have. Always brings some faith in humanity.
Dan is one of my favorite humans.
I imagine it's because people like me, who thoroughly enjoyed The Last Jedi but acknowledge it has some real problems don't have any interest in discussing it online (or anywhere really). So what's left is the margins on BOTH sides yelling and screaming.
I'll just wait over here by myself waiting for episode IX.
"There are no more nuanced conversations." Preach it, Dan. As technology has made people more connected, it seems also to be making people more uncivilized. It has become increasingly difficult to have a conversation about the things we all love because society has taken a for-me-or-against-me stand. Personally, I have taken several steps back from the fandoms I love because it is a toxic quagmire that cannot be escaped if you are too invested.
TLJ is truly Dan's Vietnam.
LT. DAN
Such a great crew! Love your insights and jokes!
Thank you!
ScreenJunkies News the thanks goes fully to you guys for the quality content!
“Toxic fans on Twitter”... proceeds to rag on the film maker for his presence on Twitter for 20 minutes
Dan spoke a lot of truth today about the last Jedi predicament🙏
Tara Steiner I don’t think you understand what he was trying to say. He’s saying that some fans are too extreme (not all), but also Rian Johnson isn’t completely in the right either
Maximiliano Ríos Vera rian jonson has also prodded back. Not saying the fans are right or that Jonson is.
Noplay some are
Barret Schoenrock I agree, but it’s a pity the people who need to hear him will not listen, there are to many people like joe around on both sides, eagerly painting the other side with a broad brush while happily excusing bad behaviour from their own side.
It's not a Last Jedi predicament though. Look back to Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen. Every franchise has a bad or a controversial installment but only with SW will a loud minority of "fans" try to ruin your life in personal way over a movie. Why would a great director or actor or writer want to be involved if that's what you get if you do a bad job or even if you do a good job half the time. This is a Star Wars predicament. It's a small minority of SW fans who need to see a therapist chasing talent away from the franchise and f*cking it up for those SW fans who grew up to be healthy, well-adjusted adults with good taste in movies. This is not about a movie, it's about some weird mass psychological issue that some SW fans, or that a lot of people have and some just happen to express it through debasing themselves over SW (a PG film franchise whose creator says is for 12 year olds).
Great even handed discussion. Many different points of views all with some truth to them. Thank you panel! My personal opinion is, TLJ was a good film but a bad Star Wars movie, if that makes sense. That said trolling and harassing Rian Johnson or any actor, producer, etc is not a good look on the fandom......
Netflix rules without ads blasting you every second.
What a great discussion with implications far wider than entertainment. Possibly the worst segment of social media contributors really are those radicals who are deaf to reason and make their invidious remarks as loudly as they can in an attempt to recieve as much attention as possible. And I agree with Dan, it is your duty to check those people in a reasonable manner, especially when you seem to be on the same side as their arguement.
Have to say I agree completely with Dan’s assessment of how Rian Johnson engages the haters. I didn’t despise The Last Jedi but it is by no means my favorite Star Wars movie. By the amount of mockery I infer from Rian Johnson’s tweets makes me like the movie a little less.
Tough situation where I see good points on both sides.
Can fans be toxic? Yes!
Have the new Star Wars and DC films been horrifically bad? Yes!
I think that the director of a movie should stand up for his work. So he jokes and plays on the haters. Isn't that his right? It's his work. I think people can dislike his work, plenty of people do. But why does the man who made it have to let them stomp all over it? When I make artwork I give it to the audience to like or dislike, but I'm personally proud of it. If people hate it, I'm disappointed that they don't see what I saw. I may not hop on twitter about it, but if I did, as the artist, I don't think I'd be wrong to do it. Especially if they tried to make it really personal to me. Like I am wrong for making a thing people didn't like. It's mean. Those are the people who should back off. Not the guy defending himself.
edsbigsister all of this. 100%
totally agree with you
If I were in his situation, I would have gone on about 100 more twitter rants than him about how he's been getting death threats, how his costars have been bullied and harassed. I think he's handling it pretty well.
Dicky Collins agree
Because he may need a healthy percentage of those people he goes in on to go see his next film.
It's like the phrase the customer is always right. The opposite is usually true but you don't want to piss off the people who give you money.
It's business, don't make it personal.
Wow no one paid attention when Joe said the TRUE statement about Batman Returns at 16:05
Thank you so much bacon smoke burger for the episode.
I've never actually subscribed to cable or any streaming services - as a Gen X and older household we still watch a lot of free-to-air tv, rely on dvds for ease of use, and enjoy the cinema-going experience. But as I've gotten more into genre fandom, TH-cam and channels like yours has become my new free-to-air tv. Especially with so much toxicity on social media forums such as twitter or tumblr etc, channels like yours are a great way to get my fanteraction fix - I can just enjoy the discussion in the video and avoid the comments section altogether if I'm not in the mood for dealing with it.
These videos/podcasts are also a great way to indulge in my interests when I'm too tired to deal with the emotional rollercoaster of an actual tv show or movie. So thank you. And though I'm usually one of those sane silent fans - we make ourselves known in the overwhelming amount of likes vs dislikes :)
personaly its the passion that you guys have on the subjects that is what i find interesting..... i am one of those middle camp people and to be honest the reason i dont (and i suspect most people dont) try to voice our opinions is
a: because 95% of the time we are ignored anyways
b: we are mostly just casual fans who enjoy it but it really is not something that takes up a lot of our time
i feel the reason why toxic fans are such an issue is because they are the ones for whom these fandoms are not just casual enjoyment, but those for whom these fandoms made an actual impact on their lives and thus feel hurt when the story doesnt go one way or another.
and of course there are those who just want to see the world burn (trolls)
for me most of the actual topics you guys discus are meaningless i just really enjoy the passion you guys have and the antics you guys get up to as well as your genral positivity..... to much in this world is always negative and droll, your enthusiasm and positive passion is a real pick me up for me =D (especialy Roth, her sunny disposition is refreshing)
as always (al though not always voiced) really looking forward to more content
arthur
The vilification of everyone who disliked a movie is also very toxic. I hated TLJ, but I think I would have gotten over it except that you can't go anywhere on the internet without seeing people openly mocking and denigrating ANYONE that didn't like the movie. Practically day one there were articles saying "If you don't like TLJ then you hate women". It is no wonder that things have gotten out of hand.
Yep. Not disputing that trolls are toxic. Hence the "also" in my first sentence.
But the people who hated it keep showing up everywhere as well. Like, I forget about it and then there's a petition to remake The Last Jedi?!?!
That goes both ways. There was hate for both sides.
The discussion was about 'toxic' fans, so it is you putting yourself in that category if you feel upset by criticism of toxic behaviour.
solarge knowles The creators and media throw all the critics in the same bag. It's like saying that when someone calls you an a-hole and you know you're not, you shouldn't be offended.
Roth, I’m 27, and I normally watch videos about products I wanna buy, makeup and diy artists videos of things I wanna do, travel videos of places I’m planning to go, tips on things I have questions about, gameplays of games I wanna buy and comedy.
Dan just explained the current state of politics in general.
Wait? Does Dan have gripes with, 'The Last Jedi'?!?!
He has some reasonable complaints that don't really stop him from enjoying it.
You guys are missing something important. People have invested a great deal into their fandom, yes, but we've also been invited along, asked to have faith and to participate in this epic franchise. Empire Strikes back wasn't just a great Star Wars film, it was one of the greatest films ever made. "Star Wars" gave us games and costumes and comics and cartoons. It also gave us dreams and fantasies. It has influenced our culture. We supported it with time and money and most importantly, our collective imagination. More to the point, that $4billion that Disney paid is EXPECTED to come out of our pockets.
Why does Rian Johnson even want to make a Star Wars film if he can only shit on the entire mythology and the one character who is CENTRAL to the ENTIRE MYTHOLOGY? He either knew he was spitting in the face of people who love the Star Wars saga and who shared the Skywalker journey, or he was too ignorant to know what he was doing. Either way, he is not above criticism. Any decent storyteller could come up with countless themes and ideas to follow that would enhance or at least not contradict basic SW mythology, and still roughly follow the premise left by episode 7 (although I will say that Abrams is a VERY poor writer and left quite the absurd mess to follow). If all Johnson wanted to do was piss all over Luke Skywalker then he is getting what he deserves. If he wanted to do anything else he failed miserably. A third option is that he just let Disney execs dictate every decision and plot point, in which case, what was he doing there?!?
I honestly didn't expect much from Johnson. I thought Looper was a fairly boring and predictable film, with a ridiculous premise. Seriously, ripping a hole in space time and breaking the laws of physics is easier than choking someone with a rope or pushing them off a boat in deep water? I knew TLJ would not be good, but I was shocked by how bad it was. Rian Johnson knows how to make stunning visuals, and get his films financed, but he will never make a great movie. I am sure he is really interesting and intelligent and would be really awesome to work with on a project or even just have beers with and share stories. but writing has great value and a good writer is rare.
We have to stop telling bigshot directors who know how to schmooze that they write great films when they do not. Lucas can't write but he is a brilliant story designer. Abrams can't write, but he is a great pitch man. Rian Johnson can bring beautiful images to screen but his writing is abysmal. Fans are getting hostile because they keep getting serves platters of steaming crap and being told it's veal. Stop defending poor work - that's what's making popular culture so shitty today.
If Disney or any filmmaker does not want to make films in the Star Wars mythology then they don't have to. Let someone make these films who loves the characters and their stories, and who understands the deeper themes.
Dan's Last Jedi/Rian Johnson rant was perfect! Thank you, Dan! Thank you for understanding that I am not racist or sexist because I didn't like Last Jedi. I didn't like the movie because of conflicting tones, (bad) marvel humor in a SW film, inconsistent characters, dropped plot points from TFA, decisions that lead the plot to nowhere, waisting Phasma (again), the whole things feels like a mess. And I really do believe Rian Johnson is bad for this franchise. He's a big part of why this division in the fandom has gotten so nasty.
I think this is an important discussion and you guys handle it so well. People take these stories personally and when they're not happy show outrage in unhealthy and unproductive ways. Crossing the line between constructive criticism and harrassment.
I really don't like my job and I'm still not sure what I want to do with my life but watching you talk about movies (most of which I haven't seen but they are on a neverending watch list) everyday makes me feel like everything is just going to be okay.
Thank you for what you do!
Marta Grosbārde What do you do for work?
I don't think it's fair to label Rian Johnson as someone who hangs out on twitter to 'destroy the fanboys'. He still very much has that indie director persona. He's been genuinely interacting with the fans and answering questions, and he has responded to people with criticisms. He's said that most of his twitter mentions are positive. He's only openly spoke out against the people who have been absolute assholes to him and his cast (especially after the KMT situation). He gets hate comments on everything he posts and this was another case of that, but his response didn't seem snarky at all. If anything, I think it lets people know that if they keep being disrespectful and if they keep bringing this up in non-relevant threads, they're just drowning out their own voices.
Sure but its kind of hypocritical how people still rag on Snyder
leonthesleepy dude I’m not gonna be toxic and mock his family but I’ll say that he should take a break. MOS was his best dc movie. Watchmen ultimate cut was better than original but dude his movies are bad bruh or maybe I’m judging because the studios were just fucking him
Fair point. I think people confuse disliking a director's style or work for disliking them as a person. We don't know that guy. Maybe he's great. His films though, not my cup of tea.
The supermajority of Snyder hate is not his individual character as a person, it's mostly his directorial choices.
Max Jackson i understand, and its fine to dislike his movies. But there are people who openly celebrated him leaving because his daughter died.
Yeah, that's just effed up. People are just the worst.
I subscribe to you guys, Nerdist, What The Flick, Stuckmann, Emergency Awesome, Afterbuzz, all the late night shows, and a few others. I get home every day, add all the videos from the day to my Watch Later list, and that’s my TV for the evening.
I felt so much relation as I am that person in Orlando who hasn't been to Disney since I moved here
Had this whole converasion once when I and others discussed that almost nobody does tourist things where they live, unless they're entertaining guests.
Dan I agree with what you said, unfortunately the reasonable nuanced opinions seem to get drowned out the most.
It's the same political conversations/ film etc
Can we rename The Last Jedi to Space Balls 2? I think that would make the film 100% better.
I sit down and watch you guys pretty daily, very similar to how I use to watch PTI on ESPN and sport talk shows.
With Ron Howard it's different because he did not write the film. The Last Jedi was Rian's brainchild. And with something you create entirely it all hits way harder. I seriously feel for him if I like the movie or not
Marvin Kö Agreed, Ron Howard got called in to a mess of a project already underway. What we will never know is if Phil Lord and Christopher Miller would be getting the same shredding that Ryan if they had remained on the project to the end.
Ryan was clearly the wrong choice for a Star Wars movie, love or hate TLJ, simply for the damage that was done to the brand. Almost as bad as EA's garbage fire called Battlefront 2. Ryan would have been a GREAT choice for Space Balls 2, which would have had room for the kind of 4th wall deconstruction and subversion he wanted to do.
The Dan Rant about someone getting in and telling people to calm down, might be my new favorite Dan Rant.
You have a Mc Donalds ad? Congrats you guys. Happy to see your growth.
Franco Baggage ugh would rather it he Wendy’s or chick-fil-a 🤤
Waistline growth?
Somehow, amidst all the love I have for every screen junkie, Dan rises to the top. Despite his basic b**** cable package.
The director of Robocop 2 also directed the Empire Strike Back.
Last Jedi didnt have all I wanted but it was a better film for me watching it a second time.
Watching a 2nd time (as a SW fan) I found more relevant details, connections and substance of the story.
Poe Dameron was awesome and seeing Luke and Leia in that final moment, OMG.
One of the appeals of TH-cam is that the viewer generally feels like that have a more intimate bond with the content creators.
Man, idk what I’d do without this show to keep me sane. Another great one.
I try my best to say "It wasn't for me" when I don't like something now and leave it at that. I liked The Last of Jedi more than The Force Awakens but on a whole I didn't fall in love with either. I don't think either are "bad" movies but I guess they just weren't for me. For instance I don't like fish, I prefer red meat. There is something intangible about taste that people aren't getting. In that way I feel like Star Wars was a burger restaurant that decided to switch to a vegan restaurant. Some people enjoyed both, some enjoyed vegan more but some patrons still wanted burgers. They complained to management and they were told that they were "unethical for liking meat." Those patrons said "hey we didn't change what we are, you did?" Now you have two tribes in a fundamental disagreement that is no longer about the restaurant and food but who is in the moral right. If I was Lucas film I would put an impossible burger on the menu and call it a day.
Grant Smith My dad thinks the same about Force Awakens. He thought it was great film, but he stated “It’s just not the film for me.” Which is fine. Since then, Rogue One and Last Jedi have both been films where my dad has left not just saying “It’s a great film, but just not for me.” He’s genuinely loved both films and feeling they’ve nailed what made the OT work. But that’s the thing. He understands when a movie isn’t for him, but he’ll still find something good to see in it. I think we as filmgoers sometimes go too personal on movies which is understandable, but we also need to be willing to pull back and actually see that in the end, they are movies. That’s all they are. Totally fine to dislike a movie and express why you disliked a movie, but if a movie is enough to make you an unreasonable jerk to people who disagree with you or even just found some positivity in a live, there is a clear problem.
I definitely 100% agree with your comment. 👍
What I watch on TH-cam: Screen Junkies, music videos, clips from late night tv, dogs being reunited with owners after a long time apart.
First, i'm not a fan of star wars (not even in the slightest) but the way he & kathleen started off with talking down to fans, well, they themselves opened their own flood gates. I think the fans have a right to be upset, for even I, who could really care less about this franchise thought TLJ was a huge slap in the face, and then made worse with their responses defending it. Personally its like that old saying... "Don't want shit, don't start shit, won't be shit" They should've followed those words.
aww thank you pumpkin... my point of view doesn't matter for myself... you lil pudding pop... thank you so very much!
lmaos!!! thank you pumpkin for you opinion... you made my day lol
i truly hope you're sitting there all mad... and just sooo angry, please tell me how mad you are... come on lil brussel sprout you can do it.. .i'm allowing you to do so... come on... :D
_Toxic fans_ is the new _fatigue_ .
I generally watch craft type things, speed art things, and different trades such as wood working, metal work, and home building. As well as all my comic book stuff and most importantly ScreenJunkies.
24:49 DAN is completely right
I’m glad Rian Johnson defends his film it shows he’s proud of his work and passionate about Star Wars and as someone who liked TLJ I’m happy to have him direct more SW films
Preeeeach Dan at 24:00 min was on point 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
TH-cam...man, I watch a lot of stuff. Political stuff, FailArmy, pop culture stuff (because I'm old and don't know what the kids are into), Comedy Central clips, late night TV clips, old school music videos, history stuff, science stuff, PBS stuff, cooking vids, etc. Roth's rabbit hole idea is real.
LeeNYCXX It's like that for me with Wikipedia
I watch this show of course and a few other channels religiously (Super Carlin Brothers, Dead Meat, Roses and Rosé, Cherry Wallis) but mainly for tv and movie clips, soap opera storylines, and music that I don’t wanna pay for.
Rian Johnson set out directly to create a divisive movie, he said so himself. So obviously he enjoys the hate.
I think he enjoys the discussion. I think like Dan imagining the Rian Johnson is calling him a nerd, you are spinning reality to justify the insanity that people involved with SW have to deal with. This isn't about TLJ, look at Jake Lloyd or Hayden Christensen, or George damn Lucas. This is some kind of weird psychological issue that a loud minority of SW fans express through trying to ruin the lives of people involved in SW.
There's an interview of Rian before making TLJ litterally saying his hope is to make a movie that some will love and others will hate. That's the reality. He succeeded in his mission and now he has to live with the fallout from that.
koooo34 The fallout of a movie people hate is no fallout. Not Kelly Marie Tran leaving social media over harassment and death threats. You're making 'well she shouldn't have been wearing that sexy outfit' argument. And what's your answer for Hayden Chistensen or Jake Lloyd or George goddamned Lucas? This isn't about Rian Johnson. It's about a small minority of sociopaths who happen to see SW films when they should see a therapist instead. You can rationalize or justify this if you want but the problem is that great directors and writers and actors are not going to want to be involved in SW because of "fans" being so aggressively abusive in a personal way to those involved.
Justin Parker You're still talking around the issue. You can look at the accounts of these people and see them being harassed. That is not acceptable and it is insane. It is a sick and pathetic thing for people to do. Who gives a sh*t if being harassed is or is not why she left. She was harassed, her as a person, for playing a part in a film. Surely we can agree that this is bonkers. Surely, whatever trivial side discussions are possible, we can all agree that it is morally wrong and suggests some kind of psychological issue when you reply abuse to someone on all their posts, particularly if you're a grown man and doing it over a part they played in a PG film franchise whose creator says is for 12 year olds. Forget any trivial side facts about 'an interview' or why someone being abused coincidentally leaves social media, in a moral sense it is wrong to harass someone over a movie?
Justin Parker, John Boyega's reaction speaks volumes, in addition to reactions from the rest of the cast - people that know Kelly.
Best discussion for a while
Only reason I own (basic) cable is because it was the only way to get faster internet, I doubled my speed by adding it. Cable w/ on-demand I feel fails because the content library is so small. Online options provide a lot more content that I'd actually watch, and more options available. One example, what real anime option is there on cable? I grab crunchyroll; on demand movies Netflix; If there's a specific TV show I want to watch I'll get a season pass for the series on Amazon. In the long run I feel I'm saving money by getting the content I'll actual watch with less waste, for maybe the same price or less.
All the movies that split the internet fandom i always think is OK. Man of steel, the last jedi are all ok movies for me.
I usually agree with Dan but he needs to let other people speak sometimes rather than go on a rant, I'm really glad that once he got into his views about TLJ that Joe said "I don't care about your views of the film, I want to talk about the response", otherwise he would have kept going.
16:57 That look Spencer gives is the cutest and at the same time the snarkiest thing.
I am now convinced that Spencer is a fan of H.Bomberguy. His name popped up in the patrons, he mentioned the Alpha thing, and now the sonic lore analysis!
Also, I really love Joe Starr and his ability to call out BS in a clever and funny way. Never change, Joe! 😉
It's funny Joe mentions TH-cam almost being a utility, because I never realized until now that I almost use it almost the exact same way--I use it for news, film channels of various types (you guys, Cinemasins, Cinemawins), cooking channels, and above all of those things used the most for making playlists to listen to while I work.
At face value you'd never think it, but TH-cam has become cable for some of us.
TH-cam has a ton of music so I listen to playlists of 400 R&B songs or 200 classic hip hop or 300 neo-soul. Also I add to watchlist the recent uploads from my subscriptions and let that play as a playlist too.
If a director, writer, or actor does not wish to take on a franchise because of the possible backlash of "fans", than it only makes sense that they shouldn't do it because fheir creativity would be reduced by fear of others reactions.
The trolls will forever attempt to cut you, but if you run from the trolls what does that make you?
The big issue with society is the fact that no one nowadays knows how to have respectable debating conversations on subjects in which we can sit down...say our points ... and end the dialog mutually agreeing that they were fans of films who want what they're viewing to be the best they can be without seeming disrespectful. Remain human and civil.
Well I do agree that people should calm down on both ends, I haven't seen many people who liked it sending out death threats.
Shout out to screen junkies I'm a big fan of your honest trailers anyway to Dan please don't give TH-cam any ideas I have no money to pay for that.
So in conclusion, if you watch a movie and you don't like it and it feels you with rage,
Take a pillow and stuff your anger down , till you feel nothing.
Seriously ???
A least Dan is realistic.
If you don't like a movie and that fills you with rage, go see a therapist because you have an issue.
I don't think that was their conclusion, and maybe there was no consensus at the end, both sides are sort of right, Spencer and Joe were focusing on the problem of attacking Rian Johnson directly, which is obviously wrong, you should be able to criticize art without attacking the artist. Dan was saying everyone should be able to have problems with a film and talk about it in a mature manner without going on the attack or defense like your life depended on it.
julietrc15 AMEN TO THAT
I suggest finding another franchise or hell another form of entertainment, it's not worth getting that much anger from one movie
Yea. You say well that sucked and You move on. It’s a movie. That’s what most normal people do. If you’re that tied up in a movie, there’s something wrong with you.
TH-cam definitely has too much to worry about along the lines of managing their creators and monetizing their creators and trying not to piss of their creators to actually full out battle with Netflix in the streaming game. Also managing the 450+ hours of content that gets uploaded every minute, and all the stuff they have to worry about banning and restricting.
Sometimes when you guys go off on tangents...they are the most relevant tangents I hear all day.
Damn what will these franchises do without legendary visionaries like Zack Snyder and Rian Johnson ?
Metal Maniac Make good movies?
You guys should all check out PSview. It’s everything TH-cam tv offers with better cloud DVR and a better Channel selection imo
Is there a way to put an annotation at the end of videos, so I can click it to like the video
I think people in the middle have left the conversation long ago. I have friends who disliked TLJ and friends who liked it. And they pretty much stopped talking about it a week or two after they saw the movie. It's the people who are passionate about the film, either passionately love it or passionately hate it, that have enough interest to keep talking about it.
I think it's about time you guys invested in a "It's been X days since we were forced to talk about The Last Jedi" sign
Creators on Twitter should just stick to being professional on their official twitter accounts, not provoke the fans and just promote their work. You get hate, don't spread it around, it just stokes the flames
TH-cam TV is taking off
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON DUDES! Happy birthday 'Merica!
TH-cam is ubiquitous. I’m in my early 30s and my young kids watch TH-cam gaming channels exclusively. There’s a whole generation growing up on Dan TDM, Popular MMOs, Guava Juice and others, that will re-shape TH-cam for generations to come. It’s their Saturday morning cartoons. We, as a family, have not have cable for the past 7 years.
Also Dan you nearly made me cry with your impassioned discussion regarding the last jedi. Even though I disagree. It rocked prequels did suck FYI I'm irish
Note to Joe, Bruce Wayne is 6 ft 2 in and about 220 lbs.
Also, "It's a movie about Star Wars, it's not a Star Wars movie" is maybe the best summation of issues with TLJ that I've seen. Well done, Roth.
I swear at the end cards, it almost sounded like
"Brought to you by the signature CRAP recipes by McDonald's."
I think that adding to the problem is that the reasonable people in the middle get yelled at by both sides.
I think poor people who don't have internet access at home don't have Netflix yet
People who can't afford Netflix, or can't afford something to watch it on.
I consume a looot of youtube (stereotypical gen z human). Generally I tend to focus on people that I really enjoy rather than specific topics. So right now, on my watch later I have y'all, Jeff Goldblum on late night shows, Adam Savage on Tested, Simon and Martina, etc etc. I also tend to get sucked into buzzfeed-esq videos about fashion and beauty. When it comes to rabbit-holes, I generally fall into subculture fashion (which is hard to find on that many other places.)
The worst part about the people in the middle Dan was talking about is that it's only about 1% on either side of extreme. Yet that's all we are talking about. The smallest portion of loud people on both sides.
I like Screen Junkies News but their sensitive talks of toxic fans are getting really repetitive, they do the same kinds of complaining about every aspect of the relationship between creator and fan and by the end of it they don't offer any solutions. The truth is that there's evil in this world and it manifests itself in many ways. There are genuinely horrible people who watch widely beloved content and they will express whatever they think in whatever way they can if they are determined to do so. The best thing to do is ignore them. Period. There's no getting rid of them and silencing them on social media is an option. Any further action would be violating their rights and realistically nobody's proposing anything along those lines, but complaining about it in ad nauseum isn't helping either and doesn't make for enjoyable listening content when it's a recurring topic on a daily show. I understand the reasoning and concern in doing it, but once is enough to get the awareness across. Sharing back to that one video when news around toxic fans comes up is better than spending another 20 minutes on the topic where you say the same things anyway. If you disagree, I'd love to hear why. Thanks for the time.
CallanLoF I agree and disagree, maybe it was a slow news day and they just felt like hitting this again. I thought it was a good discussion but they could have brought it home a bit more maybe concluding together that intense hate and vitriol shouldn't have a part in criticizing a film, but that you should be able to reasonably offer criticism and discuss what was good and bad without attacking each other or the makers of whatever movie.
The discussions are becoming as repetitive as the stupid arguments on Twitter. Can’t believe that that was half the show today - very slow news day!
In a way I agree. But do they ever truly discuss death threats from SW fans. Or do they start to and Dan makes it about him imagining that someone called him a nerd? Like, Dan hijacks the convo a lot and makes it a 'both sides' everyone is hyperbolic thing. That's not what the topic was. It's about are great directors, actors, and writers going to avoid SW because why deal with this? For the paycheck? If you're great you can get a paycheck elsewhere. That's the discussion I wanted to see when I clicked the video but Dan made it about him, again, and how people questioning his taste and Kelly Marie Tran getting death threats are two sides of the same coin. I wanted a discussion about the results of when people get angry about SW for silly reasons, or even good ones, but Dan made it about the discussion itself, and even more narrowly, about his personal subjective feelings about being in that discussion.
Ledpooplin55 I don't think anyone is confused that the death threats are bad, stupid, and need to stop, I appreciate Dan bringing the discussion to the middle by saying that not everyone with a problem with TLJ are the same as the people sending death threats and all the hate, while addressing that all of that is bad and needs to stop so that there can be rational discussion.
CallanLoF when you ignore toxicity it doesn't go away either.
I don't see how fans are toxic for criticising a flawed film. You can't make a blanket statement about fandom, when the real toxic fans are in the 0.1% minority
But they are a loud minority.
Tara Steiner then let's crush them. I'm tired of being called a nazi/alt-right/men's righter because I don't like a movie.
Of course not all fans are. Not even most. But some take it from criticing to hateful talking.
Toxic is toxic. It's not all criticism that is toxic. There is legitimate criticism and there is the mean spiritedness that drove Kelly Marie Tran from Instagram.
It’s not toxic for criticizing a film. It’s toxic when a group of fans drive people off social media, change their names on wiki and practically bully creators for “disrespecting” their franchise of choice. Criticism is not telling Rian Johnson unrelated tweets that they wish he was dead. Like they said in the video it is reasonable people (like you I hope) who don’t turn away from telling people on both sides not to be overly nasty or mean to other people (I’m looking at you people called others who disliked TLJ “basement dwellers).
Side Note: In all seriousness what was with that casino part
As someone who follows Rian Johnson on Twitter I feel Dan is painting a really unfair picture of him as a mean guy who wants to get into arguments. From everything I've seen of him he seems like a really nice guy who respects people who don't share his opinion. He's just not going to run away because people didn't like his movie. I think that its very brave to not run away and it means he has some sense of humor about the situation. I think it must be pretty hard to make a movie that he loves and wants people like that gets so many people mad and cause people to harass him.
TH-cam's direct competitor isn't Netflix, it's Amazon. They have prime movies and shows and own twitch. What do you think TH-cam would have to do to get to a prime-level of influence in original shows and movies? Separate their services?
Now I have reason to rewatch A League of Their Own for the billionth time! Happy Fourth of July y'all!!!
Yoga with Adriene is delightful.
Bad productions equals bad fans. Directors, producers and show runners need to own up to this fact. Squeals, prequels, reboots, and remakes will ALWAYS have consequences with the fans either good or bad by the same quality of the work. Do it poorly it will be disliked, do it well it will be loved. (You kept using Tim Burton's "Batman" well personally I loved it! It was well done. "Batman Forever" we forget! ) Rian needs to live up to failure, sadly, but true.
Dude, no. Star Wars is different. You don't have these batshit insane crybabies constantly harassing people making other franchises. Plus TLJ wasn't even objectively a failure at all.
Bottom line box office says different. Solo didn't have a chance after last "Jebo".
I suggest fanpires in place of fandom. It works on two levels. One it combines fan and empire and most empires are portrayed as the dark aide of a conflict. Plus it could also be fan and vampire implying they are sucking the gun out of it all.
I 100% agree with Dan's point about how there is a tendency to paint all the detractors of TLJ with a broad brush. I didn't care for the movie, and most of my friends didn't like it either, but I don't think any of us were screaming at the director on Twitter or saying it ruined our childhood. Online, it feels like if you do like that movie you are stupid, and if you don't like that movie, you're just a hater. It's a no-win scenario, which is becoming a thing with most of these large, tentpole movies in general, sadly.
The definative answer to Kirk or Picard is simple. Sisko. Sisko rules.
Spencer Gilbert for the deadpan win. “... tower seven videos...”
TH-cam is TV for me. I only watch cable for Food network and Travel channel.
Dan is right about last jedi. There is tendency to paint everyone. Good obversion
I forget how popular Warhammer really is, and it’s so weird to hear famous ppl talk about it. One time I was looking into buying my now-ex one share of GW stock for X-Mas thinking it would be like $50-200 and one share was over $1000 at the time (and it now over $3000)! So much for that present, lol :)
I know that it would be incredibly difficult, but can you PLEASE make a top 10 movie list. Like of all time? Please?
We did it guys, we won one