THE SECRET THAT SPEAKER MAKERS DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2018
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Streaky tells the secret that speaker manufacturers don't want you to know or use !!!
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@Streaky I did not understand well, you should measure your sweet spot just inside the triangle (with Sonar woks too?)? or you should measure in the triangle and sit just inside him?? ...I read that SW tells you to put the mic in the triangle point. Thanks
Dude, your link is a 404
What they don't want you to know is how cheap the parts for the speaker's are.
you could say that about any product in the world
Theres more behind calculating prices than prices of individual parts...
If youd go by that only you could probably buy your powerhorse pc that costs around 1500-2000€ for about 100€ or a SSL mixing console for maybe 300€ since its mainly transistors and knobs...maybe a pc would be even more expensive than an SSL Analogue console if you go by parts price only....
Yeah just think about graphics cards like RTX 3090, no way a lump of silicone costs 3k
This is a plain stupid scam boohoo
@@tormendor8585 It's not just the silicone what you pay for wtf. 3grand is because of scalpers by the way. It's NOT the MSRP. No one should buy stuff from scalpers!
@@kaedeschulz5422 Your brains probably work on Intel HD Graphics since you cant see a fucking joke.
@@kaedeschulz5422 also isn't it kinda hypocritical for you to say that xD
I've been using Sonarworks for just over 2 years now and it made a huge difference to my mixes. I wouldn't want to mix or master without it now, it totally cleaned up the low mids and lows for me.
Yeah its mega for low mids :)
I was going to say the same thing. The difference in low mids was huge.
It's seems self evident that the big dips and peaks are below 500 htz due to room modes. Above that, in my room at least, speakers tend to behave much more linearly.
I keep telling people that same thing. Some purists reject Sonarworks but it just makes your work so easy.
I've been looking at getting it for a while. Thanks for the reminder streaky 👍
As much as I don't want to try it I might give it a go. My room is extremely flat (built from the ground up based around flush mounted ATC SCM100s) so I think it'll probably tweak everything nicely but for those with normal rooms I just don't see how it can improve (it'll definitely change it though!) things significantly. Most monitoring problems are related to time domain issues and Sonarworks can't deal with these...For example if you have a modal resonance at 100hz in your room turning it up or down with EQ or adjusting the phase relationship between the speakers won't make any difference, you'll still have ringing at 100hz.
There is absolutely no substitute for treating your room.
It's taken me a great deal of time an effort to gain an understanding of monitoring/control room acoustics and as far as I can see most people aren't that interested in really getting to grips with it! People actually think that Sonarworks gives them a 'flat' room, it really doesn't. If you look at a waterfall graph of your room before and after Sonarworks then you'll see how its impossible to reduce ringing from modal issues or specular reflections.
Stop thinking about your room being flat in terms of frequency response because your basically missing the point, sort out your time domain issues and your frequency response will take care of itself (and then tweak with Sonarworks if you want).
@ListenAndLearned Yep 100% Look at the time domain information (waterfall, spectographs etc) and build a picture of your problem areas!
nice 1 streaky, really looking forward to some MAIN monitor reviews, would love to see some Dynaudio / Adams / Quested / Hedd towers ;)
Thanks for this tip. Definitely going to check it out.
Agree, added a good degree of confidence to my mixes and I can’t shut up about it! I should work for them too 😊
For me the amount of bass is now much easier to judge, wise to work at a calibrated level when using it (or a few for those of use the need to monitor quietly sometimes or bounce out a mix for a big system..) as I believe it accentuated the psychoacoustic results of masking at different volumes etc. need a very quiet environment to get it to work a lower levels..
I tuned my ok system in a horrible sounding shop space and now have a good reference to listen to while I’m working, the difference it made there is phenomenal!
I use my neighbours, they start to yell with too much bass when playing Motorhead
Wtf!? Motörhead has like no bass
I have a 40-year old loudspeaker system that already delivers the low-mids correctly and doesn't trigger the upper bass room nodes like every speaker out there does. It also goes lower than anything at three times it's size. I will soon be launching this system in an updated but to original spec version using only the finest components money can buy. Room EQ should not be needed and besides, the brain can manipulate the more subtle elements. Transparency and speed are better served without EQ coming in-between the source and the loudspeaker.
I use a Sonarworks custom calibrated set of HD800 headphones and I have to say it was a real eye-opener and alongside Waves NX and a good DAC it has made it possible for me to mix with headphones...Sonarworks is awesome.
Hey! I have two questions:
1: What filter phase do you use for mastering?
2: What's your opinion on using it with reference headphones?
Thanks!
Been using Sonarworks for a couple of years - couldn't work without it. Before that was using the ARC system which was pretty good, but I tested how they sounded against each other and Sonarworks won. The headphone calibration is awesome as well.
I'm currently using a MiniDSP. Allows me to correct every speaker individually, up to 4 channels on the version I have. Think I spent about 250 euros total which includes an individually calibrated mic. Sounds great, helped me out a lot.
I am prepared to implement a MiniDSP 2X4 HD into my primary stereo next week. You, along with this video,
convinced me to also install one in my home studio. Thanks!
I agree Sonarworks is fantastic, it sorted a 6db bump between 100 and 400hz in my room even though I have tonnes of treatment, sounds so weird when it's bypassed now. Would not mix without it, brilliant investment!
Interesting stuff. Thanks!
If you read Sigfried Linkwitz's page on speaker engineering, you'll learn that the room is the culprit. More specifically, it's the way speakers interact with the room at fault. Most box loudspeakers are very non-uniform with their directivity, causing reflections to have greater content with lower frequencies. These non-linear reflections muddy the sound. DSP can tame resonances in the listening position, but they can't fix monopole speakers.
Sonarworks is great! So easy to use, the best bit of kit I’ve bought in years. I ended up getting some calibrated headphones as well! Funny how home hi-fi / home cinema are using room correction more and more now.
Got the sonarworks headphone reference on Black Friday, and seriously , my headphones mixes now translate to the speakers. I used to have the arc system back then, but sold it eventually. I might as well get the one for my monitors, since I already have a measurement mic.
Did a mix on the headphone trial of it and holy smokes. The mix and master I did translated so well. Definitely gonna purchase it..
yep...winner
I have an 80's analog tascam eq on my setup to help the bass frequencies of my b&w601s2's.. Of course it changes the source sound and phase a bit.. But it sounds so damm warm and amazing.. Before my speakers used to play music but now they really perform.
Hey Streaky, really enjoying your videos. I’ve been mixing and mastering for over 30 years myself and still learn something new every day! I’ve incorporated some of your tips into my process too so keep them coming! Just wanted to say on this subject - I’ve been using the ARC system for many years - I think it was released before Sonarworks, so it was the only real choice at the time. Totally agree that the setup process is a drag but I have found that once you get it set up right, it sounds - to my ears anyway - way better than Sonarworks which I demoed out of curiosity. The transients seem tighter and somehow things sound more smeary and overly soft with Sonarworks compared to the sound I’m used to from ARC. I’ve use the ARC on everything from original American HR824’s through PMC IB1’s and TB2’s to my current Neumann KH310’s and I’ve always been able to trust that sound - it always seems to translate really well etc. I guess part of it comes down to what you’re used to. For me also, my home theatre rig used Audessey room correction (basically the same algorithm as ARC), to correct my 7.1.4 Atmos setup so I find that continuity makes for a useful reference too. Just thought I’d share my experience on the subject too. Keep up the great work with the videos man! Best wishes. Harvey Summers.
Streaky, I'm shocked you only have 14k subs (AsOfApril2019) ! I have been watching youtube for audio topics since around 2010 but your channel never came up in my feed before. This is way better than 99% of the competition out there. Your delivery style is spot on. Good job. Keep it up.
Nice one thanks for the support 👍
Maybe it's because he says "the secret" and then never tells us lol - no one likes click bait :¬)
And no, sonarworks is not the secret, having different rooms, speakers and equipment gives different sounds? We all know that lol !!
Printers, monitors and scanners have colour profiles, it's the same hting here, but with audio.
That's fine if it's just in your own setup, but what do you compare it to? You'd end up doing the flat room again (room eq), which is what this is doing, just with a fancy doobery !!
The whole point is to record using neutral speakers, the room doesn't count, as in a proper studio the room will be as dead as a dodo.
Once that wave goes past your ears, it never comes back.
Thanks Streaky!!!
Got the new ILoud MTM with the built in ARC one mic position where you sit at your working station and works a treat, perfct for a home studio/project studio.
I think I missed something here. I remember now, it was the secret. I think I'll buy an audio secret decoding microphone.
Tried them all!!!! Trinnov is the best, but it's expensive. I use MiniDSP DiracLive DDRC-22D (using Spdif) . It's Amazing, sounds awesome (Focal SM9 + Prism Orpheus), super user friendly, u can tunne it to your tast after it corrects everything, it totally changed everything for me. Years and tons money correcting 1-2dB on the low end with acoustic treatment and this just revolutionised my sound. Just my 2cc
I am prepared to implement a MiniDSP 2X4 HD into my primary stereo next week. You, along with this video,
convinced me to also install one in my home studio. Thanks!
No prob :) at one time it was something like this that convinced me as well. In your studio, if you have a very good AD/DA try to use a MiniDSP DiracLive DDRC-22D ( only digital ), the reason is i dont know if the convertion of the mini DSP boxes are any good or not, but i would say they aren't top notch. If you have a middle range conversion i think u can use a analog MiniDSP box. Think about that before buying, because when in doubt always try to remove any conversion between your speakers and your AD/DA.
Do you notice much latency? I was looking at this system before I went with Sonarworks. I ended up going with Sonarworks and I love it. But I have a UAD Apollo 16 and I'd love to monitor a live band recording in my room and have it adjusted to my room. Instead, I monitor a live band recording through my DAW being corrected by Sonarworks. The latency is my question. Thank you! I'd love to have as much detail about the system as you can give.
although you can reduce the amplitude of frequency modes with equalizer, how do you deal with decay time?
I just tuned my room with Sonorworks last week!!!! :) I have a very good sounding room wuthout a lot of refections, and I built a vocal booth for my Neumann U87, because it was picking up the traffic outside. But, the room has a carpet, a couch, and the vocal booth made from 3 x mattresses in the corner, that also absorbs sound. I woulld love to have those PMC´s behind you. Instead, I´m going for a more affordable pair, the Focal Shape Twins. I´ve read up on them, and they´re supposed to be really good. Of course, another thing to consider is to find speakers that will fit your room, and aren´t over powering. For instance, I love the Focal Twin 6´s, but they´re 450 watts. That´s too powerful for my room. It´s important to consider that. Of course, I would love to have a pair of small PMC´s, ATC´s, or even a Barefoot, but I can´t afford them at the moment. Maybe next time?! :)
Now that I've understood what they do, the Kii Threes in particular as well as the Dutch & Dutch cardiod speakers get the room out of the equation in an amazing way. I don't think any eq can compete with that. Soon all speakers will use this cardiod dsp approach. Almost science fiction.
Good to see Streaky back on the SonarWorks marketing team 🤜🤛
Here is the best secret. If you are good at building passive speaker crossovers, you can just buy cheap speakers that have the drivers you need and then completely redo the crossovers to make them sound how you want them to. Did this to Monoprice 3-way in wall speakers and took them from shit sounding to amazing sounding. Crossovers are where manufacturers cut costs. As long as the drivers are not total shit, you can make any speaker sound amazing with the right crossover treatment.
+Streaky
As a side note, you should read and/or watch as much as you can of Floyd Toole's, Sean Olive's, & Geddes' loudspeaker research and their blind & un-blind listener/hearing tests.
Before you employ the use of DSP/Speaker Correction, understand what, why, and HOW our Ears and Brain hear Loudspeakers, and the Room they are in. Pay particular attention to "Power Response". I'd also highly recommend the research that Linkwitz' has done.
You might want to look into the *Strauss Monitors* (Swiss, I believe) and the Transaudio/Subwoofer Pros subwoofers. Apparently Sony Mastering in NYC did a huge speaker shootout for their entire mastering facility (including PMC) and chose the Strauss Monitors for all of their mastering rooms. Eric Valentine of Barefoot Studios uses them and discusses them here at 10:37...
th-cam.com/video/Q5m4xsU9EQ4/w-d-xo.html
One last thought. I'm personally not a fan of your "Screaming" (ALL CAPS) and Clickbait TH-cam Titles. As a professional, it certainly brings your credibility into question.
Just bought IK Mulitmedia's Arc 3 and really looking forward to trying it out. 😎
Streaky, great video. Do you use SonarWorks on your NS-10s? I remember hearing you say that you have a pair. I have a mono Auratone and some NS-10s for reference monitors.. not sure if putting SW on them would sorta defeat the purpose of having a 'grot box'
I’m using Sonarworks 4.1 right now with my IB2s-a also!! Amazing amazing result!!! I’ve tried it with different Preamp and it does really change the « sound » you’re talking about! I ended up with using Millenia but if you have any better, flatter options I’m really curious to see what’s best. I bet trying different AD converters would change the sound too...
Samuel Laflamme snap...da ad conversion changes it a lot but that is down to sound preference when you get passed a certain price point...
I've used ARC and hated it and use Sonarworks every day. It's fantastic and has helped every pair of speakers I've used it on. I have the Focal Twin 6 speakers. My room has a LOT of bass trapping and diffusion but because of the dimensions, it's got a bump at 200-300 hz. Sonarworks works it out and I'm able to get completely translatable results. I can hear .25 DB adjustments on track EQs now. I don't have to guess what it'll sound like when I'm done.
Nice video! Putting the price difference aside, how do you rate Trinnov versus Sonorworks?
I've been using Sonarworks for the last couple of years. It's almost like a magic pill!
I use Dirac Live for room correction on my NAD amp and its awesome. It removes most of the room boom from bass.
I tried it out in my new room and it sounded much more balanced tonally but the stereo field disappeared almost entirely. It made the speakers sound a lot less 3D. I ended up using it to let me know where to focus my room acoustics
Works great in my lees than ideal room. But I also use it with 2 pairs of calibrated headphones purchased from sonarworks... well worth the price for the software and cans!
@Streaky did u check the Hedd Type 30 with sonarworks or with Linearizer?
Use and love Sonarworks. :)
I’m using sonarwarks for almost a year now. It really helped me getting my mixes up. But do you baypass the sonarworks plugin before you export your track? Thanks in advance 🙏🏽
Sandy Beats Most definitely
Where do you plug in a turntable?
What preamp is best for the Sonarworks suit?
Because then can't a preamp be part of what the software is hearing and also the converters in and out?
Is there a preamp you know as being the most transparent flat sound there is?
I building a studio at some point but all my preamps on the list are coloured for specific sounds, but I can't see them being good for this.
Any suggestions.
My main converters will be the antelope Pure2's.
It's not a budget studio but it's also not high high end.
Mostly in the box with a few choice analogue components on the inputs and out puts.
I've kept going back and forth on the sonarwork and now you've brought me back in.'
Would appreciate the extra bit of advice with this variable.
Streaky -- Question, do you use any dedicated saturation or distortion in your process? If so, could you elaborate in a video why and what your device/method is or why not? Thank you!
nope dont use any
can we see the reading of your room Streaky?????? :)
Streaky, in the video you make the impression that you've measured your near fields. Have you measured and corrected the PMCs? If not, why is that?
I highly recommend Sonarworks for everyone. I had a pair of Dynaudio monitors in a terrible room, i used to believe that i needed better monitors until Sonarworks made a miracle and now my mixes translate everywhere just fine (yes, even if the room remains terrible, some 10 dB correction going on in the app).
Also Sonarworks is awesome in regular non studio speakers, i had amazing results with speakers that i though as garbage...
Hi, just wondered if you could help me?.... have you ever heard of NUMAN Speaker 🔊 and if so are they any good?.... your knowledge would be much appreciated....
Hey streaky. I’ve been mastering a lot of music with heavy reverb.. like Luna del Ray.. it’s hard because as you know everything is so smeared ,, any tips
Look up Lana's producer or mix engineer.
I used to do this over 10 years ago with one of the Roger Nichols plugins.
Sonarworks seem to a be a very good choice. I'm very happy with the Genelec GLM calibration. Calibration stored inside the monitors means never need to think about switching on and off any plugin.
+corner liston
Does the Genelec's built-in correction add any latency?
Hi bb foto! No latency at all. And room correction only works attenuated so there's no frequencies being boosted. According to Genelec this is to avoid phasing issues. Maybe there's always phasing issues even with attenuating eq? But for me nothing audible.
Love Sonarworks, i used it for few months and my mixes are better.
sonarworks was a true life and gamechanger!!! Treat your room acoustically the best you can and then use sonarworks or trinnov if u wanna spend some more dollars :-)
ARC is ok too now, just a few measurements around the sweetspot, quick and easy
Hey, Streaky Thanks for this review! I'm new to Sonarworks it's been a couple of weeks only since I started using it. I was wondering what filter type are you using? Is It Linear Phase or Zero Latency?
Your help is much appreciated.
MixPhase Audio Services linear phase works for me but play around
Thank You!
well, genelec has this feature inside the speaker, are promoting it heavily.
yes, room first, a null is a null is a null...
....there was a lot of arguments on Gearslutz about using room correction and how it will just make room problems worse...but in my opinion, although there is probably something in that technical point, in reality it seems like it does help....and those poeple who want to cling onto the technical argument I guess they loose out on an improved room...;)
I never believed that this would work until I did a sine sweep before and after.
Will you post reviews on as many of those speakers as you can? Glad to see you have moved on from the restrictions of the last studio.
will do...Love having my own playroom, it's fine tune central !!!
I've been using it for a few months now it's an incredible product (it's much much better than ARC). My question for you is, if you were to room correct all speakers that comes into your room, basically they would sound pretty similar in terms of frequency response, then would it be correct to say that, then the remaining factors that you'll be deciding what speakers to use will probably come down to dynamic response and how detailed they are?? Also, for mixing, would you say that EQ-ing the speakers might cancel the frequency characteristics of the speakers (ie. NS10s being mid range-gy) which might give you valuable information?
Joseph Wei No it doesn’t change the sound / character of the speaker...a shit speaker is still a shit speaker...just helps you hear on what level of shitness they are...or greatness too :)
Room equalization only works well below about 300 Hz. Use it only after adding room treatment. Also, select monitors with smooth off axis response. You cannot fix bad monitors with eq period.
So when using Sonarworks StudioID, it is supposed to make measurements in your Reflection Free Zone (RFZ) and create a flat Frequency response for your speakers in your RFZ.
Does that mean that with this software it does not matter which brand of speakers you use anymore? ( as long as the speakers you do use have a short time domain response and are able to cover 20Hz - 20KHz) 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
I've been using sonarworks 3 for some years it's awsome!
Some tips:
1) I strongly consider to take a better mic than the stock one. The results get even better. (You can replace the mic curve at the beginning)
2) Better mesure your room without the furniture stuff around (if you can ofcourse) and try to use it on minimal latency mode (not linear).
Avoid linear mode in any case. You don't want an eq with pre-ringing at your monitors cause it might be flatter but it destroys the stereo image.
3) As streaky says try to use it at 6 db (not 12 db) and even some times if your room it well treated already try to put it at 80%. It's really good.
Streaky! i'm very curious to know what are the measurements in your room. Would you like to post them if you have the time ?
Thanks a lot!
I didn't know that about the stereo image, would you say linear EQ messes with the stereo image when used as a mix tool? This also makes me wonder about the Kii's which I believe use a linear phase EQ in their DSP.
Interestingly, I've been of the mindset that it's better to measure the room WITH the furniture, racks, etc as this will be more representative of how you'll be listening to the corrected version. I've gone so far as to try and keep my desk chair as close to where it is typically, even though I've had to do leaps and hurdles to get the mic into the correct measurement spot.
Curious as to what's your logic into taking the opposite track?
Just check space sounds with and without.
And make your assumptions as i made mine!
More furniture in wrong places = More problems acoustically to get really measured correctly by a software. Your room is what is the most important. Except if there are furniture that are placed in the right position and makes a good impact to your room
The idea with sonarworks is not to make it perfect because it's not perfect anyway.
Note down also, that Streaky how tested it in his room, he has already an ideal conditions.
Ilias Pantelias I guess the solution would be to measure with and without furniture. In this case it's really only a couple of pieces. My room is essentially a small professionally treated "mastering" room as I don't do any tracking and have bass trapped the hell outta that space.
For less acoustically treated room, you may be right in your thinking that more complex shapes make it harder for the software to do it's job correctly.
As for the ultimate goal of what Sonarworks is trying to achieve, it does appear to me that it's flattening FR without consideration to a curve of any kind. It resolves discrepancies like peaks and troughs and creates a curve that mirrors those anomalies to get the FR as flat as possible from 20 to 20k.
Did the designers of the software describe to you a different goal?
Well.. now all the rage is Mini DSP and Dirac live ;)
massive difference!
Totally agree. Sonarworks are the way to go.
So, my mix recall process has become much quicker since using sonarworks. No more back and forth. I wish they had an easier way to switch speakers with the software though.
You could usefully get yourself a mic with a flat response too. This one takes off on sibilants. Is it a MEMS mic?
show us your new room ! :-)
Have ARC2 but never liked it, did something weird to the soundfield. Might try Sonarworks but isn't it pretty useless without their mic? Could try it with my Slate ML2 which is supposed to be pretty flat.
Sonarworks.. worth my weight in gold (I'm a mix engineer with a well-treated room)
i live in a bamboo house in philipinnes, the walls are bamboo matting, mahogany floor....do you think this is a good audio environment....i have no glass windows either...
@@justingriffin2546 use headphones, speakers may blow that house
Try a pair of PSI Audio A25-M. You won't let them go!
I use sonarworks. The only pain in the butt is, you have to remember to turn it off everytime you bounce or print your master track. Fortunately the plugin even reminds you to turn it off but only when you‘re bouncing and not if you do a master print inside your session because it doesn‘t know.
Not in Studio One.
I use sonarworks for my headphones and it’s amazing
I knew about this software for several years now but couldn't remember the name, so thank you again! Found it and the price as well, they have a list of headphones on their site as well for mixing in apartments etc. so you may want to read that before you purchase headphones for your studio 'cause mine aren't there. But you can send them a message and they will help you out. Well worth the money for a great bit of software, and the reference mic as well. So far, the best channel on TH-cam, after 10 years of watching.
I like Sonarworks. However, I'm really like they wisely incorporated a wet/dry knob (making it drier reduces the correction of both peaks and nulls)
Reason being is that the corrective filters have an arbitrary slope and and gain/attenuation. For example, if your room has has a drastic problem which needs a high Q to correct, the result may be kinda "not right" sounding.
Also as Streaky (btw what's the origin of the monicker?) mentioned you don't want to correct anything that needs more that 6db gain. Corrective attenuation of over 6db isn't a problem.
Makes me wonder why SW has such limited post-correction customization available (I'll contradict Streaky's assertion that it has "loads". It'd be great if you could tweak individual parts of the spectrum, not mere global adjustments.
Btw, Streaky left out SW's crown jewel: the ability to flatten out headphones. I applied a generic Sony 7506 correction to an old beat up pair and the result was a FAR FAR superior set of cans: night and day. The whacky FR of the 7506 suddenly became as flat and mellow as nice reference cans.
I use to play acoustic guitar in my average room and It sounds exactly same as real guitar i cannot tell the difference.
Sonarworks still doing big things. everything improved after Sonarworks
*DUDE YOU ARE 2 SECONDS AWAY FROM A THUMBS DOWN...!* TIME POINT 3:00
There’s a whole lot of nothing being said here. If you’re changing your room around just to listen to speakers you better have a dedicated music room or be a lonely bachelor. No woman wants baffles in the corner of the room and soft materials all over their walls
You need to find the right woman. I have theatre curtains and sounds diffusion in our loungeroom. I have a recording studio built into the main bedroom and a songwriting/vocal studio in the 3rd bedroom for my wife.
Ground sound make high qualtiy dsp active crossovers that beat most of what i have seen and heard.they have romcorrection.They use a pc via usb to program them.it use crossover wisard that downloads from their site.they have digital preamp with built in active 3 or 4 ways crossover modules also.The best i have bougth off audio gear is 2 ground sound dnc24rpc witch are 2 stereo 2 way croosover or configurable as 2 mono 4 ways crossovers.
@Streaky My new control room will be 2350mm x 3750mm. Am I fucked? I've got the latest Sonarworks software.
So you say that you do not want to use room EQ that the speaker makers recommends and then do you proceed to tell about this amazing secret they do not want us to know that is to use a room EQ... Am I the only one that do not get the logic here? :-)
I wish it would not be plugin! I wish it would sit in my system so that everything I listen to goes through Sonaworks. I used to use a 2nd mac mini running a daw and run live everything through IK ARC or Sonaworks but it introduces even more latency. Wish I could afford the Trinnov. So what I ended up doing is to use those tools to find the broader problems and use the speaker EQs and placement to get closer to flat. But I am not a big fan of having only a plugin in my DAW at the end of my monitor chain.
I see the best solution is room isolution using only wood and most important focusing on density of bass absorption (db). I dont recommend anyone buying products for this situation at all , it is BS for me .
2- isolate studio monitor from table using iso accoustic not foam!!!
3- studio monitor angle at 45 degree towards you , and move back little bit you will be able to hear alot of stereo details .
Amer Darwich don’t knock it until you try it. Free 21 day version.
some critics say that equalizers ruin the sound ... unless you spend a lot of money. I guess that they mean that eq adds some kind of distortion ? However thank you very much for the advice.
Phase,distortion
so how big is the difference between sonarworks and trinnov? maybe room treatment + sonarworks + an avaa would do a great job... for the money? THX
I would say that getting the room as good as poss first always but correction software does give the missing bit...all rooms have that missing bit, I've worked in 1 million pound rooms and £1 rooms and they all have an issue of some kind.
Not put the two against each other but they both have their quirks...like latency on trinnov (they may have sorted that by now)
It's funny because i did just today afternoon some research about room correction. My main concern is about the Sonarworks, that it's only a Mono measurement mic, while the trinnov has a 3d measurement mic? In my opinion Trinnov should do something for less money, for homestudio owner maybe with the 3d mic, because the technology the already have...?
Sonarworks takes measurements in 24 positions, and it is smart that it somehow identifies the position of your mic precisely (probably via calculation of response times from left and right speakers). It probably measures more points than the trinnov 3d mic in one shot. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Joseph Wei I believe the latest version takes 36 measurements.
There is more to the cost of a speaker then the sum of its parts, and not all the parts in a high end speaker are cheap.
Can you review Genelec 8361 please?!
EQing the speakers to fix the room is a bit pointless as it does not fix the room modes, boundary effect, smearing of the phantom image, or reverberation time at specific frequencies - Theses are the things that really matter, not the overall tonal curve of the perceived sound.. If you got all of those things under control, it doesn't matter how your speakers will sound, as long as you know and understand their sound in your room well.
What the bloody hell is he on about? What's the secret? Try writing a script, mate.
Seems to me that the 'Sonarworks' application, should be used at every Consumer and Pro Audio show and Convention. For the norm is an unfamiliar Hotel Room, which more often than not; has a myriad of Acoustical Problems. eg. echo, which is all the more prominent once the room bed is removed, to allow for a proper Listening Area. Also, things like Standing Waves etc. etc. "That Great Sounding Room " at ANY Show; regardless of the $$$ of the gear, are few and far between. I'm guessing of those few; there's a lot of work on Speaker Placement. Which would include; attending to Room Boundaries etc. But, to a large extent; It's dumb luck. So I concur. The Speaker Companies are doing themselves a great disservice by Not using 'Sonarworks' or a similar means of (DSP ?) Room Correction.
"First Impressions" are paramount. So, it certainly behooves Speaker Manufacturers,
" to go the extra mile". Room Correction is Fair and Right.
Great Video. So thanks, for the thoughtful advice ... Cheers ! ; )
P.S. As "first impressions" are paramount. It behooves Speaker Manufacturers to "go the extra mile". Room Correction, is Fair and Right.
What Streaky is saying is that most or almost none will tell you that you have to treat your room too. Of course good speakers are good speakers and you bring the best out of them when the room is treated. Back then in the 90ties till early millenium this wasnt common knowledge. One had to go to audio engineering school, pay heaps etc. In my opinion i try not to over do it because it doesnt stop. (the room treatment part) . I know the manufacterer of Kirsch Audio , a very good Berlin based speaker company , have a pair myself and have been to a listening session at their showroom. I had their engineer in my studio when we were trying out the speakers too and he told me as well that at some point room treatment has to stop too, it can very very very costly and time consuming. Do as much as you can till you are satisfied. To Know how it will sound. From my experience its listening to the mixes in different systems .Using good recordings as references etc..Trial and Error too. It s a good thing we all have stuff like this on TH-cam these days , this sort of advice wasnt available some time ago but it seems that many know too. For me these videos are really good because it confirms stuff which i have also forgotten during the years. Thnx!
Mohan Das well put thanks for inputing
youre welcome, i thank you too for all your videos-am currently testing the tegeler audio creme to include in the mastering chain. saw that video from you about it too.
yes I really like it, use the EQ section on loads of stuff, how you finding it?
yes, the EQ section is really good but i actually saw the sontech 432 or maselec mea 2 on various videos, i think youve done it too; but these two are way beyond my budget. also tube tech sounds really good. i wish the creme had a midrange band and a cut possibility not only a boost but i suppose for the price one cant complain.
yeah totally different beasts... tube tech good but not Maselec if you need a parametric.
After some research I found some concerning things. This is a response from sonarworks to a customer complaining that it fades the out the transients of his bass drums whilst using vst plugins. They basically admit it is because sonarworks introduces pre-ringing. Are you worried about this affecting the transients of your masters?
sonarworks.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/208931125-Phase-and-Latency-Issues .
And in the 4.1 update material they say they got rid of Optimum Phase because "Optimum phase was a compromise between having no latency and phase distortion. Essentially, it still gave you both. For this reason, we have removed the middle setting meaning you can now either work with greater accuracy of sound or zero latency". Just all sounds a bit sketchy to me. Also people seem to rave about Acourate by audiovero (Bob Katz loves it) but it looks like a massive ball ache to set up. apparently it works in time domain unlike sonarworks.
No good for analogue hardliners. Plus how does it know where to stop correcting LF? You could just be adding power and distortion in bass frequencies into a speaker with limited LF. Or adding distortion because bass frequencies are cancelled in the room. At the end of the day it can't substitute for a good room. It's just another plug in. Too much faith is put into all this dsp because it seems cheap and easy.
I think engineers need to realise that you need to set the room up correctly first...or the best they can in the space they have...then this will help with final details.
It would help if you'd had some sort of script or at least crib cards.