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Secret STEREO WIDTH Trick (FREE PRESET)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
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How are you widening the stereo field without ruining the mix? Let me know below...don’t forget to hammer the like button 👍 stay well 🙏
one trick i like to use is using the mastering compressor in ms mode and compress less on sides (usually just a db of gain reduction to level things up and glue everything together). i highly recommend you to do this technique on this new little beast www.toneprojects.com amazing but very technical mastering comp. interesting multiband detection stuff goin on.
Legend thank you
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Streaky Mastering I Never use it . :) i stopped long time ago, but Will check out youre tip . I Think my mixes as wide anought , but Yeah why not :)
Maybe i should send one so u Can hear it ..... ?
I was strapping a stereo widening VST to the entire mix, feeling plenty excited about how wide it sounded... and confused about how thin it made my mix. Thanks to you Streaky I realize I was affecting the whole mix and not keeping the low end tight AF with your technique shared here. My mixes are transformed!
Streaky when using Celestial use the Mastering version, the Mix version doesn't spread, it only reveals the sides present on the track, when moving to m (left side) reveals the mono of the track. The mastering version of Celestial is more like widening stereo fx as you describe.
Streaky is a nitwit and wouldn't even know about these kind of important details. That's how clueless he is.
Korneff Amplified Instrument processor is what I normally use. If I need more stereo widening, it handles it really well, doesn't add any artifacting. I usually put ito on a bus and only add about 30% since I usually hard pan between 80 - 90% depending on the mix. Also has an awesome compressor, and an insufferable mid range filter so you can notch frequencies that don't need to be there.
Yes, awesome trick, learned it in your mastering course! :-)
Mr Ruffin! I love your tutorials!
Personally I think it’s very limiting to just lift the tops like that. I find looking for sweet spots is a much move effective way. Sometimes lifting the tops like that can bring out an already too bright reverb. Generally you can also create amazing width at around 250-300hz with the side signal.
You could not be more incorrect, sorry. The 'M' represents 'Mid' and the 'S' represents 'Side'. Not 'mono' and 'stereo'. A sound source being in the middle is not what inherently makes it 'mono', and a sound source panned out to the sides is not what makes it inherently 'stereo'. A mid EQ works essentially on sounds more in the middle and ignores those more on the side, while a side EQ does the exact opposite.
An instrument, or any sound, may have monaural or stereophonic aspects regardless of where you place it in the panorama. A sound that has certain harmonics more to the right or left of the other harmonics (or offsets to inherent delays L vs. R) is stereophonic by definition. A sound where all harmonics and root tones are equal L or R, regardless where it is panned, is monaural by definition. Such a sound can be panned in the stereo panorama, for a stereo output, but the sound itself is inherently monaural, since all harmonics emanate from the same exact location you pan it to.
Pan a stereophonic sound more to one side, and the harmonics move along with it, yet they don't all magically end up on one side or another. Pan a monaural sound, and the entire thing ends up wherever you place it.
What I do is send all center-panned instruments (kick, bass, lead, solo, and vocal, typically), regardless how 'stereo' they might be, directly to the stereo output. I create a stereo bus for everything else (comps, pads, accents, cyms, toms, hi-hats, non-continuous perc, and reverb sends). On that bus I have two EQ's. A 'Mid' EQ dips everything between 600 and 2K -6 dB (Q of .12 centered at 1310). This pushes levels of those instruments down only at those frequencies and only for harmonics that are in the middle. Then I add a 'Side' EQ which does the opposite, by boosting +6 dB at those frequencies and essentially replacing them, but replacing them more to L and R. This moves them out of the way without changing the level or the resultant freq response.
This opens up the middle so the center-panned instruments have less competition at the frequencies they use the most, as well as maintains the same frequency response as before, while making what needs to be wider, wider, and leaving what doesn't, alone. Since humans distinguish sounds using echolocation, it makes the sounds that need to be wider not only wider (while not messing with those that need to be centered), but adds clarity, and does not affect the pan positions. A lead, for instance, cuts through better without having to be turned up.
And it does all of this without tinkering with the phase the way a widener plug does. I also sidechain compress this bus using the lead instruments as triggers, which helps that work even better. I can guarantee that this approach will be much more effective than the one demonstrated.
Dynamic EQ is nothing more than a myth. There are moments when the sound is there and moments when it isn't. If the EQ cuts in when the sound is there and cuts out when it isn't, how could that be any different than a static EQ, which also works only when the sounds are there and has absolutely no effect whatsoever when the sounds are not there? Minimally different, at best, and not helpful if there is any response lag, especially if 95% of EQ is done per track and prior to mixing, which is how it should be done. Thinking dynamic EQ has any real effect is only wishful thinking. What might 'sound' like an improvement is only the placebo effect.
And please stop talking with your hands. Annoying, does not make what you say any more resonant. Actually does the opposite.
Yes the kick and bass disappers when spread out
Wow great video footage improvement! Well done Streaky 🎵🎵👏🏻👏🏻
@Streaky Mastering Can you share some knowledge about the "spacial placement" of the sounds. I mean ... to move them further away (quite a long way), not left-right. Thanks for the great videos!
Not all widening plugins affect the center. Best results is combining both MS eq and widener plugins.
Thanks. My approach is to compress sides by 2.5db with make-up gain using Elysia Alpha Compressor or to use izotope exciter on sides slightly.
Oh.... why did i never think of the exiters side functionality...thanks man!
Great tips! However, if I may offer a correction, MS stands for mid and side, not mono and stereo. Manipulating the side channel is not the same as manipulating the stereo channels.
So helpful!
>> _"Mastering is about subtlety."_
Unless you're mastering an awfully mixed track. :) They're the type of client that'll presume you will "fix" everything for them in the premaster. Although, I just recently got an awesome Blues album to mix for a client, which I'm very happy about! Fun times.
Great review!!! I’m so glad that you were able to get your hand on a pair! Have you had a chance to send your signal through it with .5 on the threshold and some release on it? It’s interesting to see that you have the pad on 0db I never have mine at 0. I either have it at at -20 or -10 and ease in on the slope till the peak threshold and slope leds start to tickle - if you still have the units I encourage you to play with what the unit can do. So glad you had a chance to run it through
Nice tune Matt
Great tutorial! Now on your other tutorial, you did the opposite with the high-self in dynamic to control harshness, using the fab filter eq. ..what if I want to control harshness but still add excitement with what you did here?
damn mate, that preset make one hell of a difference on track I was working on! amazing stuff, thanks.
any chance you could send it? it was taken down from the site
This is a great tip!!!
This is great info
I like the MB image in ozone 9 works great
Loving these videos.
You mentioned this in one of yours earlier videos...great trick...cheers
Johnny Vegas good the more you say it the more it sinks in 👍
Streaky, awesome tip. Any chance you can do a video regarding using the linear phase setting on Pro Q3 - when and where to use it? Or should you always be using it? Theres a lot of videos on what it is, yet no one gives working examples. Top man 👌
It's really common on mastering, or for anything with serious low end attenuation. Has to do with the phase type
@Streaky, you're gonna love this. A client sent me a master that almost had no stereo profile. He sent it to me to make it more "stereo". I sent the 2-track to an aux buss, used the Waves "Center" plugin on the aux, and sucked out EVERYTHING in the middle. I EQd what I had left in the L-R channels using a HPF at about 10K, and boosting everything above that at about 3dB. Then I just raised the aux fader enough to brighten what was already there on the sides! It added such a nice, different colour than if I had just used a parallel side EQ! Try it!!! Btw, I'm addicted to your channel now. 🤣😆
Acustica Celestia has 3 modes, MX (mix) which is the one you are using and its basically for mixing, MB (Master Buss) and as of the latest update ME (Mastering).
Both MB and ME have an elliptic filter, you probably knew that but just saying.
Nice one on the dynamic Side EQ, will try that one out.
nektar I don’t use the Celestia just used it to show veiwers a stereo widener, this is essentially an m/s eq video
@@Streaky_com Fair enough
@@justinb9387 The elliptic one on Celestial is "ok". I've never used it more than just a pinch really. But generally I stopped using spreaders since years ago. Side EQing does the trick for me. Just never thought about doing it in a dynamic manner before this video.
I am taking the opportunity to go through their stuff these days that demos are for long periods. Will check out the ones you mentioned, cheers.
Great video, Is this done before the limiter or somewhere else in the master chain?
What is your take on the multiband imager by Ozone? Will that also cause phase issues?
Asking because you mentionened effect of phasing when used on the entire frequency spectrum
Not necessarily. However, any MS processing (and stereo widening is MS processing-it rebalances the mid and side channels) can and will cause phase issues. Doing freq-specific widening, like with Pro-Q or a multiband widener, will allow you to pick and choose where you apply the effect, that way you don't ruin the center image of things like you bass or snare.
Beware that multiband processing can also cause phase issues at the corner frequency if the crossover filter is too steep though. You can also check the phase of your crossover filter in something like DDMF Plugin Doctor. Gentle curves, like those shown in the vid, generally cause less phase issues. Linear phase doesn't suffer this issue though.
The link not working !!
Please advise!
Thank you!
Very cool, bit complicated for me, I'm just acoustic guitar and vocals, can I still use a stereo plugin? (Albeit tamely...)
That widener plugin sounds really naff on a cellphone speaker! Because I work on tracks from enthusiastic amateurs I find simply fixing the equalization increases the stereo spread to the point where the client asks what widener I use. Good tip for taking it further though.
1st Comment on this great Channel...!
Always thank You Streaky for true information!!
🔝🔝
Just shared this! Amazing tips!
I never use a spread on anything with bass I want to come through.
Great tip Streaky, thanks 🤜🤛
I normally use an Haas effect plugin and then send the mixer channels to a bus with Ozone Imager which makes all the bass frequencies mono, is it wrong?
Awesome!
Yo Bro...i wouldn’t have known this if you didn't share this!!!!😎
Really thankful, luckily i own fabfilter pro so i can do this neat trick you showed.
Straight Sub from me!!!🔥🔥
Bless🙏🏾
That's a nice way to deal with the width in mastering, but it got me to thinking. If I'm mixing a song is there a way I could use a widener from the high band output of a multi band (Tegeler lets say) compressor on mix down? I'll leave the mastering to someone like you until I learn more, and you are a great help there so thank you once again!
Modern stereo width plugins are perfect. Check out e.g. Nugen Stereoizer. You'll be surprised.
Amazing video!!!!!!! Just a question because I'm a beginner...Do you this method as last plug in on the master or you would use it before the limiter? Thanks a lot :)
Someone has been watching Dan Worell's Fab Filter videos.
M = mid S = side. Not stereo and mono.
Harvester Of Tone makes it easier for the not so experienced to understand...
Streaky Mastering now that’s a fine excuse.
Maybe it's just me and my antique computer, but your download link seemed to take me somewhere else?
Will check it
Not trying to defent stereo widener use on master but you didn't really make a point to me in that video by using a full band stereo widener. If I would be tempted to use stereo widener on master, I would definitely avoid a full band one and go for a multiband widener like to avoid touching the bass frequencies, like the one in iZotope Ozone for example.
Nice trick with the dynamic eqing on the side!
Nick Skywalker yes that basically the same as I’m showing you with an eq...get the preset I’ve added some more bits to it 👍
Wasnt even sure why would you use a stereo spread on master.... individual channels yeah but master
I'm enjoying and learning from your posts, so thank you for those. One correction is called for, however: M/S means Mid/Side, not Mono/Stereo.
Yes I just mentioned that for beginners to kind of get their head around as most will associate mono with center and stereo with sides
Great trick!
Perfect 🥰
Thank you Streaky
Do you apply a low pass filter afterwards when mastering or do you leave the highs going above 22k?
leave it alone mate! the digital audio is already designed to have the upper band ending a bit above the human hearing range so the distortion at cutoff freq isnt audible. read about sampling, Nyquist etc its really cool to know :)
streaky the best on youtube
Went to the website. Filled out the form: "404 Page Not Found
The page you requested does not exist." :(
What does the linear phase mode do
Nice tip! Have you ever mastered a mono track or mid channel to sound like it's in stereo, even though it's mono? Most electronic songs (like from this video) are likely played by DJs on mono systems. Usually higher frequency perc, air, reverbs, and effects are the first elements to phase out. If those things contribute to the energy of the song then maybe it's important to represent them in mono, so at least when played on a mono system they fill the space that the listener/audience is in. Also of course perception of level changes between mono and stereo panned elements. As a producer who plays live i look at stereo and mono as codependent. I was wondering about psychoacoustics of mono and maybe there are ways to add punch and brightness and subtle reverb that make mono listeners perceive more spaciousness? Maybe these are more production related questions...
Hi, link isnt working well for FREE Stereo Width Preset. I got an error.
Never mind, it worked after logging in again. ;-)
Your older entry music sounded good, by just listning to it i would known its streaky.🙃🙃🙃
Isn't boosting the highs in the side signal exactly what a multiband stereo widener does? For example, Ozone Imager allows you to boost the high band in the sides only and as far as I know, this is "stereo widening". How is that different to what you've done here?
So, given the topic here, I'd really love to know how you feel about the Mathew Lane DrMS plug-in and what you think it would be most useful for, if anything at all.
Hey bro , great video but a question : you use the linear and highest mode in fab because you are mastering.... but instead don’t used the mix version of celestial not the master version that its different, explain why please? Cheers
can you do this when it comes to mixing and in any genre?
also high pass the sides below 100hz
f6 floating band dynamic eq
PRESET IS NOT AVAILABLE
Thank u ...
In the first example with the Celestial plugin. Why not compensate the bass thinning out by boosting some back in?
My two cents - If the bass gets phasy then youd have to boost quite a bit to get the still in phase frequencies to fill it back in, but so much so also that they compensate for the ones now lost as well - itd throw the bass out of balance bigly.
the truth my g
I thought M stood for mid and S stood for side?
yes Streaky isn't technically right about that but pretty clear nonetheless
Hey streaky ,, how would you hook up two different converters so you can a and b
Nice video :)
Sometimes I use Celestial in parallel for spread stereo , can I have some phase problem here?
What's the track ID of this piano house track?
it says 404 page not found when i try to download preset
thank you
Obviously an engineer that goes more on listening and feeling, rather than an engineer that gets stuck in on technical details. Streaky, it’s mid/side, not mid/stereo. Even then the correct technical term should probably be sum/difference. Anyways, who cares what was mistakenly referred to as what. All that matters is the sound.
tUKE Gib did I say that...such an amateur 👍😂😂
Streaky Mastering certainly wouldn’t call you that mate 👍 like I said, it’s the sound you get stuck in with, not technical details or terms. What matters is the sound - and that you do know 👌
What about in the physical domain what is the best hardware for this MS equalisation
John sweda Weiss eq, get a dangerous M/S box and out it before any analogue eq
💯%
Is there a difference in using a ms eq and let's say ozone imager for example?
I don't think ozone imager has the filter, isn't it just a stereo spreader?
Fyi, your website certificate is not valid. Microsoft Edge blocks your site initally.
Cheers will check it...
@StreakyMastering, is this working for the FFpro Q2 also? Thnx in advance, John.
John Schroder you can, except that Q2 doesn't have a dynamic EQ mode
I'm getting a "404 Not Found" when I trying getting the preset.....
kNERO LAPAÉ it’s in the members area on Anoraks.co
Googles -dodgey. Oh ok 🤣🏆
M/S is Mono andStereo? I thought it was Mid Side? Are we talking about the same thing?
Jim Labos it’s mid/side
It is I’m just trying to make things a little simpler for the less experienced among us 👍
The Cover is fairly cute
Heheh. I thought M S was mid (middle) side.
1:10 hahahahaha
he was quick 2ms on delay
I don't think it makes it sound better tbh. Often makes it sound worse. Not all high frequencies need wider sound.
1:09 :)
What's he talking about there, I didn't understand him?
Don't use plugins to spread... exept Digital V3 !
In all honesty I don’t think this is a good technique. A high shelf wouldn’t be the best choice especially with an algorithm EQ. In either case it’s better to achieve the same curve with a low shelf or a few attenuating curves to achieve the same high shelf boosted curve. A big reason not to do this would be translation to an over hyped playback system. In that particular scenario you’ll clearly hear why this wouldn’t be the best choice even with small boosts. If you were to check those boosted adjustments on small portable tweeter driven devices like your phone as it gets louder the mini tweeters compress and limits the material and in many situations can over emphasize a high shelf boost.
One technique would be to add a very small amount of slow chorusing to the S channel with a wide low shelf rolling out what you don’t want in the S channel. I’d recommend having your low shelf at around 2k to start and move around to taste. Try not to use HPF and LPF’s as it could possibly cause phase issues. It really depends on the material, filter type, filter curves and the use, but in general try to avoid it. But ultimately let your ears have the last say.
“the M stands for mono and the S for stereo”? Are you sure it’s not Middle and Side? A bit more accuracy please.
Most people would understand them to be the same thing, no?
Martin Mortell actually it’s not the same thing. And I really don’t believe in the “most people” escuse.
I’m sorry, I thought you were excusing him for his error. Yes most people would.
@@simaojoseph haha ok. Can you explain the difference to me please.
Martin Mortell do you know what mono is? There you have your answer.
M iddle and S ide.
Stereo width plugins are sooo dodgy, sus even.
That's not a "secret" mate lol. That's one of the first mastering tricks you learn
NickB33 and now other viewers have too..👍🙏✌🏻