On a ton per mile bases, the drivers income would be so minimal per ton because of the huge productivity of these huge trains, yet we do away with the driver. We are all doing what we are doing on our amazing planet so that people have work, to feed families and live a reasonable life, but huge corporates do have no regard for that, they say they do, but its just BS. Why not do away with top end executives on huge incomes, and keep the frontline team employed and everyone benefits along the way.
Pretty much, though to be fair automation would allow us to work on other things. This is why everyone should be given a base pay to live, without the costly cancer that is the owners and execs. Machines do our work, and we all live better (but only if we get rid of the top).
Funny what pops up in my feed.... right now Im typing this at Tea tree camp on the Rio Rail mainline at 176kp. I am part of the construction crew currently replacing turn outs and replacing whole sections of rail and formation arounf the floodway bridges etc. Some of this line is untouched since when it was laid around 40 something years ago so its a "little overdue" for a refit. We work up to 3 meteres from any live track and having these things coming past at up to 80kph was super intimidating at first! Each train is carrying ore worth around 4 million Australian dollars and we see around 30 something a day pass by heading to the port. Great video Ive captured loads of footage myself and will put something together for the huge amounts of people commenting positively on this video. Cheers
"Río Tinto" ("Red River") is a company that was born in Spain (specifically, in the province of Huelva, in western Andalusia), since the river of said name ("Tinto") carries the colored waters red, due to the copper that is in the place where it is born, and that was exploited by said company until 1954.
Copper metal cannot be it. It has to copper compound which usually have green colour like copper suphate. Copper ores have green colour blue colour like malachite. If Rio Tonto in span was coloured red then it was because of iron ore like Hematite of Limonite.
I know a driver up ther who got a six month contract to drive ten years ago "while they did the transition" to remote operation. He is still there driving locos there ten years later. I would like to point out that BHP had a runaway train a few years back which had no driver. The accident cost the better part of a billion dollars what with destroyed track, wrecked wagons and locos and most expensive of all a few weeks lost production of iron ore while the line was closed. Still all that aside a great video and stunning scenery. These places are really remote and a permit is needed to drive there, truck tyres being essential.
The driver was off the train checking something and brakes were not set properly due to air fault. Train moved off and with down gradient all the way to coast could not be stopped. It was deliberately derailed.
Not really. Since the driver was inspecting a fault, if the train was unmanned they would still have had to send a crew out by road. This would probably take hours out there. It is not a simple economic equation.
@@andrewblake2254 Any malfunction on automatic train while en route costs you more money than in train with driver - assuming that driver is skilled enough to repair it by himself. It means that more pressure is put on service crews and more money is spent on maintentance in depot. Same discussions are running in my industry - how much would it cost if crewless ships would brake down in the middle of the ocean?
It's mind blowing how far technology has come, I asked about Autonomous Trains no-less than 4 years ago during an imaginative stupor while writing, I was told by a few people that it was either stupid, impossible, unsafe, and completely unnecessary, while others said it'd be for special types of trains, or for Japan's High-Speed network, yet, here we are automating Iron, in Australia of all places.
I don't know why you're impressed. Of all vehicles, a train is the simplest to automate. It moves in a one-dimensional world (vs 2 for automobiles and 3 for airplanes), with guaranteed rights of way.
@@strnbrg59 Just because its the "simplest" doesnt mean its "simple". These are different words. There is still a shit load of programming when it comes to automating trains.
Pretty mind-blowing to see autonomous freight trains in Australia! The locomotives look and sound a lot like the ones seen in my home country, the USA. Great catches! Greetings from the United States!
@@Hugo5t1gl1tz All states are now connected by standard gauge but we don't have the loading gauge to import U.S. locos , check out studio.th-cam.com/users/videoVnwEeyFties/edit for examples of our diesels .
I watched many train videos for entertainment and to learn about freight trains and railroading in general. I've watched lots and lots of them. I vote the shot from 10:51 to 13:04 the best shot I have ever seen!
@@johnphillips592 Thank you for taking the trouble on behalf of everyone who has watched and enjoyed the whole reporting. It was lovely. You should divide the number of games of Freecell played by the number of people who have watched the video. It think the ratio will _definitely_ be less than one ! ✊🏼🤘🏼🤗
As someone who lives in the U.S. it is weird to the point of creepy seeing the locomotives with the windshield blanked out and no one on board. It’s almost as if the locomotives are coming to life.
Miss those days,Rio Tinto and BHPIO,first it was two men then one now none,when you spend so much time in the early days with one other person in the cab you just have to get on with each other,not dissimilar to a marriage.You have done a marvellous job John,i can nearly smell the spinifex.
@@MilwaukeeF40C yes had turns cooking and washing up,if things went wrong,hot wheels,bearings,emergency application, the driver did the walking, otherwise possible seperation.
Thanks for the upload, it brings back lots of memorys of when i was machining ore car wheels at Port Hedland for Mt Newman mining in the lathe pit, very enjoyable times.
Hi I used to work on this rail line back in the 90’s Great times I could still identify many locations Been up and down that track many times Thanks for the memories I remember when those locos were brand new We watched them being unloaded at the dock and taken to seven mile workshops for the bogie installation… Cheers
This might help. It's a video about the system from Hitachi, and includes shots of the Perth control room - th-cam.com/video/Fyeb8AQig3w/w-d-xo.html - the trains have lots of safety features including collision avoidance and real time video. And this is a driver setting up a train at the port to return to the mining area - th-cam.com/video/BDbfDUqPm8E/w-d-xo.html . It seems that the trains run up to the designated mine under full auto, get loaded and return. The only place with real drivers is at the port.
I am sure it is loaded with computerized electronics but it was possible 100 years ago with standard railroad signal track circuits and electromechanical devices.
Pretty amazing to to think a computer program is in charge of these huge ore trains. This takes remote operation of locomotive in switching to a whole different level. I was thinking how could a program take into account the feel and experience of an actual engineer to account for load, track, braking and grades but I guess if you have all these variables (non-variables I guess ) standardized the program can do it’s thing. I can definitely see this being a great option for long, non hazardous cargo in not densely populated isolated territory.
Trains that have ptc (not sure if it's that exact system) are pretty much autonomous. Ptc is something like adaptive cruise control. The train will automatically speed up and slow down, compensate for hills etc.
We've had driverless commuter trains on a light railway in London since the mid-1980s I think. I'm amazed that they aren't more widespread, given the continual push to cut costs.
@@anotherfreediver3639 I’ve heard some commuter rails in USA cities have the capability but the “optics” of having a driver-less train they feel doesn’t go over well with the public. I think many systems use the approach mentioned where a driver sits at the controls as a back-up in case anything goes wrong. Maybe a lifelike mannequin could suffice? 🤔
This level of Tech can now been seen in the ELK Valley in British Columbia, thanks to CP Rail cutting jobs while increasing the hazards to the general public. The sensors may give the remote operator all of the real time data about the train's operation, but not the forest and grass fires that are started by the trains, something that a pair of mark 1 eyes balls do from the cab.
@@Mikishots Yeah it's kind of hard to see something go wrong with the train by eye from 1500 miles away. but hey, as long as it hurts the rail unions it's worth it (assuming you're a rail exec)
Well I think it would be unlikely that a driver of such a train could witness a spark flying from a 500 ft train, landing in some grass and smouldering into a fire, while driving a train at the same time but perhaps the Canadian train drivers have superior vision. In the UK. it's just a relief when the drivers are actually in the train and not on strike.
@@richardhasler6718 those trains average about 2.4km in length with the record being 7.3km. A human driver can’t even see the end of the train they are driving. And even if they see an obstruction on the rail ahead of them they can’t stop in time. Hence the dependence on remote sensors - which can be monitored 1,500 miles away from the Pilbara in a central facility in Perth.
As a lad (1970's), my neighbor that worked in the Northern MN (USA) iron ore mines told me he ran the trains in the mine area with a remote control that was housed in a backpack he wore. I didn't believe him...
He was right I worked at a RR USSteel I started in 1973 by late 70’s early 80’s off come the backpack a box about 10 to 12 inches wide to 4 inches deep 4 inches tall placed on a belt rite in front of your belly he would stand on the ground and could see some lights on one of the four corners of the engine and the roe of different colors lights would tell him what the engine was about to do stop,reverse,forward or pumping air. He would throw switches and sometimes he would have another person on the other end of train with a radio telling him what to do
An excellent video indeed. There's something that's hard to describe, maybe a kind of realisation really, that comes over a person as they see these things in action for real. I worked in the Pilbara for a few weeks in an elevated area, next to the open valley of Karijini National Park, where I seen the constant stream of autonomous trains arrive off the main north/south line and take the large circular loop below the loading stations where they fill the trucks one by one and gradually loop around to take their place alongside the main line back north once again, moving Australia to China, one truckload at a time. They take around 3hrs to complete a loading phase before setting off north to port once again. On cool still mornings, once the final trucks had been loaded and despite being a few km/miles from the train, we could clearly hear the engines pick up from 3hrs or so idle and load up followed by the clinking of every truck's connection to the next as they took up the slack. Most interesting and impressive. Automation and AI will no doubt continue continue to hone this process and remove more humans from the entire process, including the mining. I hope China will continue to remain a willing customer...
Thankyou mr. John Phillips videos. Very different views of passing of two trains running through two railway tracks into one direction in parallel as twins single lines. Thankyou for this very good surprise. Carry-on your greate efforts.
as long as there is a balance between automation and manned work then I don’t see a problem The problem I have with automation is when company’s abuse it to kick out the middle guy to save a few extra coins
INTRAMOTIV in St Louis, MO is currently working on autonomous self powered rail cars. The cars are battery powered and when connected together in a train they all work together forming a "locomotiveless" train. Still in development but targeting this very market.
Sounds like the rails were freshly ground in most of those shots. Cool stuff! On long runs like that, the biggest hazard is boredom and sensory hypnosis. I have witnessed napping engineers more than once. I gave up the ass callouses many years ago for less boring, dangerous and terrifying jobs. Ever been in a train wreck? I have, several. They are really loud.
I worked on the two perma nent line camps and just to see the rail grinder at work during the night in winter with ahalf moon was mind blowing, i called the scene the lonely Dragon serpent, the pilbara has always been a magical place for me.
Just watched your video, very well done and informative. It used to be empowering to see a person in charge of all that machinery and to think of what people are capable of. This makes people servants to the machines, fueling and repairing them as needed. Until they can work out how to do that also.
I remember in NZ on the seventies NZ Railways instituted the use of radios in shunt operations and the union furore that followed. On a lengthy goods train at the marshalling yard suddenly a ground shunt staff of 3 or 4 replaced by 1 guy with a radio. But that's just the start. Next it was single man train crews losing the loco assistant. Elimination of the rear guards van staff (read caboose) And then lose of the single ground shunt man when the driver escaped the shunt loco controls for a remote hand set on the ground. Bring back memories people's? That's how big business rolls with the how can we squeeze the last ounce from that bottom dollar. Chime in peeps from around the world..
My understanding is that there is a human supervisor watching them for the whole trip. They can do an emergency stop remotely from a Perth control centre
No doubt that they can stop that train remotely. But if something is going wrong and building up to a potential accident how would they know apart from continous surveillance by camera all along the length of the train .
@@ianmontgomery7534 No, they are not driven by humans in Perth. The train controller does nothing more than they used to - operate the signals to tell the train (was once the driver, now the train) when to start and stop. Based on the signals, the train drives itself. Eg; If the signal 20kms ahead is at stop, a driver can choose to keep going at full speed, stop at the signal, and wait for it to clear or he can slow down now and if the signal has cleared before he gets there he won't have to stop, or he can stop anywhere between here and there (say, on a downhill grade rather than the uphill grade the signal is on to make starting off easier) and wait for it to clear (I say 'signal' but it's all in the cab so yes, you can see a signal that's 20 kms away). The train controller nor the program that runs the train can't do that. All the controller can do is set the signal to stop and the train will continue at track speed until it gets to where braking would normally occur to stop at that signal.
@@jkardez4794 They don't. No one is looking at the view from the camera. The only time they do is when an impact sensor on the loco alarms so they look to see what the train has hit (usually a cow) but whatever it was, they only see it after the event and then decide whether or not to stop the train. There was a time around 2016 while they were still testing it that a driver of an empty train rolling down the hill towards where the Robe train was filmed noticed that a man who had obviously decided to kill himself had laid his neck across the track. The driver slammed on the brakes and stopped before he cut the man's head off but had that been an AutoHaul train, no one would've known until the driver of a Robe train (still manned to this day because Robe will not spend the money to AutoHaul their track) came along and then only if it was daylight.
7:48 Two very long trains, just sitting there for 5 hours, because Rio Tinto thinks somehow that this is cheaper? That's 5 lost hours, for each train... but with people in control, they could have called ahead, at least to find out if they can move under caution? Also - people can predict and react to the unexpected - computers can only respond if what has happened is in the programming, to begin with?
Ive flown my drone over the tain ans had gotten some aweome videos and photos. When i drove darwin to cairns i had left my car unattended for 5 mins. And in that time my drone and camera that were on the back seat were stolen. If i ever see my videos uploaded onto youtube ill be going after whoever uploaded them.
Absolutely insane. Suppose there's an obstruction on the track? One of those old GE clunkers catches fire? How long until a Rapid Response Team could get out to it?
In America, there is no iron mining. There is refining as there is more than we need. I can only guess that this ore is going to the ones who need it, China. Amazing footage. Thanks for sharing it. I truly enjoyed it.
That's not true, though iron mining is certainly waning in the US with mines continuing to shutdown (this has been the pattern with every type of ore). But there are still a handful in operation, producing millions of tons annually. Not just refining, but actual mining. Though there are also reclamation efforts from tailings, that might be what you're referring to.
Don't show this to members of any of the railroad workers labor unions in North America who think that this train should have 3 or 4 crew if it was in the United States lol
Having driverless trains makes so much sense in the modern society. Technoloy can easily handle rail networks as they are a fixed and controllable asset, every centimetre of the line can be identified, every crossing, every rise and every fall of the line. The old every train needs a driver no longer stacks up, Now a days it’s no train needs a driver, as they only complicate the management on moving a train from point a to b to c with human limitations.
That was fun. I wonder why they sat there for 5 hours with the engines running? Perhaps they could've aired up the consist 45 mins before departure or switched off two engines and left one engine running to maintain brake pipe pressure. I dunno seems like a waste of fuel but who am I but a TH-cam nobody with just another opinion?
@@johnphillips592 The lead locomotive is the one responsible for the air brakes, both in controlling them and building air. The second two are only there to assist in power and braking. Now it might be different in autohaul but I doubt it. I don't know if these are setup with auto start/stop systems on them I would guess yes. They would shutdown base on water temp air temp etc. The problem I see with that and this might be the reason why they are left running is Autohaul can't predict when they will be on the move again, some guy or girl clicks start on the computer at the dispatch office and the train goes, so there be no time to start the second two. From what I have seen the engines are setup to go at any moment. If you list to the clips in your video John like at 5:25 these ES44DCi's are not in low idle (happens when you put the reverser in neutral to save fuel and start the auto start/stop system) they are in high idle ready to go. at 15:20 when the sun is shirring through the cab and no one is in it that to me... just scary reminds me of the movie Unstoppable.
Quick question - at about 13:00 mark you can see what looks like rail that is laid inside of the actual rail the trains are running on - is that some sort of derail prevention? Thanks and great video!
They are very fortunate that the regulator has given them the authority to run driverless. The actual presence of a driver doesn't do much, as the resistance to autonomous operation was related to the number of road crossings. A train were operating at a speed that far exceeded the ability of the train to be halted in the event of an obstructed crossing. Money rules!
Fifty plus years ago I lived in Port Hedland . The trains we saw each day came from Mt Newman or Mt Goldsworthy. An occasional road trip to Dampier ( now Karratha) to see these trains. So you ask what does this have to do with driverless trains? Well the drivers had a regular habit of going on strike, withdrawing their labour. Often at a time when the Iron Ore Companies were trying to renegotiate their delivery contracts with steel companies in Japan. These strikes were so regular that in Japanese the word “strike” was known as the Australian disease! Driverless trains only go on strike if the drivers (on contract) in Perth withdraw their labour. Very unlikely!
Good morning Good afternoon Good night. Gained another follower here in Brazil. Your videos are fantastic, very beautiful places. Congratulations. Hugs. Cesar
Thanks for sharing. Nevertheless the question comes up: WHY? The only argument would be cost cutting. But then may be 50 or more families would have jobs. Fact is ,the bigger the company...the more greed there is. And Rio Tinto is no exeption. Even worse, they are one of the biggest polluters of this planet and aboriginal people of Australia had to take them to court to get some compensation for the blasting of their two 46000 year old ancient rock shelters for the greed of more iron ore. Shameful as much as polluting the air senseless for 5 hours like the other mate pointed out. From the beginning, Rio Tinto's operations have had adverse environmental impacts. Aside from the effect on the land of the open-cast mining, operations in Spain befouled the air by heating ore on site to burn off the sulfur. The heavy smoke damaged vegetation, crops, and the health of local residents.
@@neilward9932 As it is with people making presumtion , you are wrong. I don't think that you will understand the in depth meaninglessness of your claim. Have fun with that level of thinking.
@@neilward9932 You know what? I feel enlightened to have guessed your mind-set correctly. I mean instead of thinking about your shallow, senseless initial comment you are trying to mock me with a typo I made. There's definitely not much fun in your life. Try to change , educate yourself to reach a basic intellectual level.
These driverless trains are intimidating as heck! Like just getting close to them with their sheer size is enough to say “nope”. But everything Rio does is big. Then you see them running parallel in the same direction and your like that’s just freaky!
@@johnphillips592 Always a "point" to riding something - instead of walking - as who in their right mind (or in the mind of anything else) would WALK 1600 miles?
I wonder if they are running Cattron or Control Chief systems? I worked on installs for Cattron and was a CMO for years with short line rail. Them 2% grades are making those ladies sweat a little :) I am so fortunate to have been a composite mechanic and a working CMO for the years I did that and I am so fortunate to not do it still, I miss it but it was some hard work. Thanks for the vids bro, made me smile and have good memories!
Imagine being paid to go to work each day (The controller) and play with possibly the biggest "Trainset" in the world. Its just a little big bigger than mine but Im not the least bit envious.
Sorry about that , you are the first person who has notified me of this , my shotgun mic only records in mono but I thought it was on both tracks will see if I can do something about it
David Rayner has a video showing how it’s done - he’s obviously one of the drivers or was one. He set it all up, locked the loco cab, radioed up the control folks and they sent the train on its merry little way. Unto about half an hour ago I had no idea such a system existed - I’m from Scotland and we have nothing similar. It’s amazing to see such a massive train trundle away on its own!
@@Highland_Moo Yes, I retired in Dec 2019 after 10 years at Cape Lambert. BTW, I was in Scotland in 2018 went the system went 'live'. Absolutely beautiful place. On my last shift before I went, I drove a train from Tom Price to Cape Lambert and when I came back 6 weeks later, I was told I'd never go there again and I didn't. Spent my final year in the yard and on the Robe line. At least we at Cape Lambert had the Robe line. No other depot still drives on the main line at all. Very sad.
On a ton per mile bases, the drivers income would be so minimal per ton because of the huge productivity of these huge trains, yet we do away with the driver. We are all doing what we are doing on our amazing planet so that people have work, to feed families and live a reasonable life, but huge corporates do have no regard for that, they say they do, but its just BS. Why not do away with top end executives on huge incomes, and keep the frontline team employed and everyone benefits along the way.
Here Here !
It is not railways’ obligation to give money to people for doing things that are not needed.
@@marioxerxescastelancastro8019 so,, driving a train,, is unnecessary?
Pretty much, though to be fair automation would allow us to work on other things. This is why everyone should be given a base pay to live, without the costly cancer that is the owners and execs. Machines do our work, and we all live better (but only if we get rid of the top).
@@Waylo2k16 Read the video title and perhaps you will then figure.
Very nice to see the trains running perfectly synchronized as far as the eye can see.
Yes they run with very close headways
The fact that corporations spend billions so as they don't have to pay a driver enough to feed a driver and his family is a nauseating.
Funny what pops up in my feed.... right now Im typing this at Tea tree camp on the Rio Rail mainline at 176kp. I am part of the construction crew currently replacing turn outs and replacing whole sections of rail and formation arounf the floodway bridges etc. Some of this line is untouched since when it was laid around 40 something years ago so its a "little overdue" for a refit. We work up to 3 meteres from any live track and having these things coming past at up to 80kph was super intimidating at first! Each train is carrying ore worth around 4 million Australian dollars and we see around 30 something a day pass by heading to the port. Great video Ive captured loads of footage myself and will put something together for the huge amounts of people commenting positively on this video. Cheers
Thanks for that , I worked for Rio Tinto for a while back in the nineties on their loco simulators .
Currently in ti tree 😂
"Río Tinto" ("Red River") is a company that was born in Spain (specifically, in the province of Huelva, in western Andalusia), since the river of said name ("Tinto") carries the colored waters red, due to the copper that is in the place where it is born, and that was exploited by said company until 1954.
I know it well.
0k
Copper metal cannot be it. It has to copper compound which usually have green colour like copper suphate. Copper ores have green colour blue colour like malachite. If Rio Tonto in span was coloured red then it was because of iron ore like Hematite of Limonite.
@@leopardtiger1022 You are a very knowledgeable bot.
I know a driver up ther who got a six month contract to drive ten years ago "while they did the transition" to remote operation. He is still there driving locos there ten years later.
I would like to point out that BHP had a runaway train a few years back which had no driver. The accident cost the better part of a billion dollars what with destroyed track, wrecked wagons and locos and most expensive of all a few weeks lost production of iron ore while the line was closed.
Still all that aside a great video and stunning scenery. These places are really remote and a permit is needed to drive there, truck tyres being essential.
The driver was off the train checking something and brakes were not set properly due to air fault. Train moved off and with down gradient all the way to coast could not be stopped. It was deliberately derailed.
@@gjlwpl So, in other words, another reason for the automation of the trains
Not really. Since the driver was inspecting a fault, if the train was unmanned they would still have had to send a crew out by road. This would probably take hours out there. It is not a simple economic equation.
@@andrewblake2254 Any malfunction on automatic train while en route costs you more money than in train with driver - assuming that driver is skilled enough to repair it by himself. It means that more pressure is put on service crews and more money is spent on maintentance in depot. Same discussions are running in my industry - how much would it cost if crewless ships would brake down in the middle of the ocean?
Yes at least the onboard driver can do some diagnostic work. And failing that have a walk round to look. @@plasot
It's mind blowing how far technology has come, I asked about Autonomous Trains no-less than 4 years ago during an imaginative stupor while writing, I was told by a few people that it was either stupid, impossible, unsafe, and completely unnecessary, while others said it'd be for special types of trains, or for Japan's High-Speed network, yet, here we are automating Iron, in Australia of all places.
I don't know why you're impressed. Of all vehicles, a train is the simplest to automate. It moves in a one-dimensional world (vs 2 for automobiles and 3 for airplanes), with guaranteed rights of way.
@@strnbrg59 Because I really like trains and I think this is cool?
@@FurryFailure driverless trains have been around for decades
@@strnbrg59 Just because its the "simplest" doesnt mean its "simple". These are different words. There is still a shit load of programming when it comes to automating trains.
What up, my fellow fur?
Pretty mind-blowing to see autonomous freight trains in Australia! The locomotives look and sound a lot like the ones seen in my home country, the USA. Great catches!
Greetings from the United States!
GE AC 4400s, pretty standard for NA.
The locos are fully imported from the US , they are the same locos as used there .
@@johnphillips592 is all of your track the same gauge or just places like this? In other words, could any US train run any AUS track?
@@Hugo5t1gl1tz All states are now connected by standard gauge but we don't have the loading gauge to import U.S. locos , check out studio.th-cam.com/users/videoVnwEeyFties/edit for examples of our diesels .
Sooner or later we'll be seeing more trains like this in the U.S.
I watched many train videos for entertainment and to learn about freight trains and railroading in general. I've watched lots and lots of them. I vote the shot from 10:51 to 13:04 the best shot I have ever seen!
Thank you , glad you enjoyed it
Thanks John, Excellent footage - loved the parallel running too.
Thanks mate , yes lucky to get that , needed to wait five hours to get it though , don't know how many games of Freecell I played while waiting
@@johnphillips592
Thank you for taking the trouble on behalf of everyone who has watched and enjoyed the whole reporting. It was lovely.
You should divide the number of games of Freecell played by the number of people who have watched the video. It think the ratio will _definitely_ be less than one ! ✊🏼🤘🏼🤗
As someone who lives in the U.S. it is weird to the point of creepy seeing the locomotives with the windshield blanked out and no one on board. It’s almost as if the locomotives are coming to life.
Those are shades, they use them in Brasil when the sun is shining and it's over 120 degrees ....they are not blanked out
Did you not know that .... Thomas the Tank Engine without the Belching Steam ...
Salut frère , j'aime se travail
My factorio senses are tingling
These precision side by side shots are amazing. What a unique operation. Thanks for sharing and glad to stumble upon this video.
Glad you enjoyed it , please check out my other videos some more iron ore trains as well as others , thank you .
The blue lights on the roof of the cab reminds me of the daleks!
Agreed , they do look like Dareks .
Miss those days,Rio Tinto and BHPIO,first it was two men then one now none,when you spend so much time in the early days with one other person in the cab you just have to get on with each other,not dissimilar to a marriage.You have done a marvellous job John,i can nearly smell the spinifex.
Thanks for this great comment Eric much appreciated .
Did you practice lots of marriage formalities?
@@MilwaukeeF40C yes had turns cooking and washing up,if things went wrong,hot wheels,bearings,emergency application, the driver did the walking, otherwise possible seperation.
better than smelling the other bloke in the cab
Driverless train is a better idea, compared to driverless car.
on god making cars driverless isnt even fixing any problem
One bucked rail will suprise that robot! 😮😅
"driverless trains are not so friendly" :'))
Mighty impressive technical feat. Thanks for sharing, I had no idea of this.
Thanks ,Yes it's pretty impressive
Thanks for the upload, it brings back lots of memorys of when i was machining ore car wheels at Port Hedland for Mt Newman mining in the lathe pit, very enjoyable times.
Thanks , glad it brought back happy memories
Hi
I used to work on this rail line back in the 90’s
Great times
I could still identify many locations
Been up and down that track many times
Thanks for the memories
I remember when those locos were brand new
We watched them being unloaded at the dock and taken to seven mile workshops for the bogie installation…
Cheers
@@batmanlives6456 Thanks , glad it brought back some memories for you .
I'd be interested to find out how the automated system works and how it avoids failures, collisions etc?
This might help. It's a video about the system from Hitachi, and includes shots of the Perth control room - th-cam.com/video/Fyeb8AQig3w/w-d-xo.html - the trains have lots of safety features including collision avoidance and real time video.
And this is a driver setting up a train at the port to return to the mining area - th-cam.com/video/BDbfDUqPm8E/w-d-xo.html . It seems that the trains run up to the designated mine under full auto, get loaded and return. The only place with real drivers is at the port.
I am sure it is loaded with computerized electronics but it was possible 100 years ago with standard railroad signal track circuits and electromechanical devices.
This is an iron ore system and is connected to anything else. No passenger trains so it's easier to automate.
Avoid failure or collision? They can’t! It would take a few miles to stop, and there’s no way to avoid a breakdown, outside routine maintenance.
Pretty amazing to to think a computer program is in charge of these huge ore trains. This takes remote operation of locomotive in switching to a whole different level. I was thinking how could a program take into account the feel and experience of an actual engineer to account for load, track, braking and grades but I guess if you have all these variables (non-variables I guess ) standardized the program can do it’s thing.
I can definitely see this being a great option for long, non hazardous cargo in not densely populated isolated territory.
Trains that have ptc (not sure if it's that exact system) are pretty much autonomous. Ptc is something like adaptive cruise control. The train will automatically speed up and slow down, compensate for hills etc.
We've had driverless commuter trains on a light railway in London since the mid-1980s I think. I'm amazed that they aren't more widespread, given the continual push to cut costs.
@@anotherfreediver3639 I’ve heard some commuter rails in USA cities have the capability but the “optics” of having a driver-less train they feel doesn’t go over well with the public. I think many systems use the approach mentioned where a driver sits at the controls as a back-up in case anything goes wrong. Maybe a lifelike mannequin could suffice? 🤔
Wait til you learn NASA's rocket flew to the Moon with 1960's computers.
@@Quasihamster 💩👤 🧌
This level of Tech can now been seen in the ELK Valley in British Columbia, thanks to CP Rail cutting jobs while increasing the hazards to the general public. The sensors may give the remote operator all of the real time data about the train's operation, but not the forest and grass fires that are started by the trains, something that a pair of mark 1 eyes balls do from the cab.
There is no "remote operator" in this level of tech. It's remotely monitored, in this case 1500 miles away. Night and day difference.
Good luck trying to find a forest in that part of Australia.
@@Mikishots Yeah it's kind of hard to see something go wrong with the train by eye from 1500 miles away. but hey, as long as it hurts the rail unions it's worth it (assuming you're a rail exec)
Well I think it would be unlikely that a driver of such a train could witness a spark flying from a 500 ft train, landing in some grass and smouldering into a fire, while driving a train at the same time but perhaps the Canadian train drivers have superior vision. In the UK. it's just a relief when the drivers are actually in the train and not on strike.
@@richardhasler6718 those trains average about 2.4km in length with the record being 7.3km. A human driver can’t even see the end of the train they are driving. And even if they see an obstruction on the rail ahead of them they can’t stop in time. Hence the dependence on remote sensors - which can be monitored 1,500 miles away from the Pilbara in a central facility in Perth.
Over here in the U.S. we refer to them as engineers
Yes but we know what you mean. Lol.
At Rio Tinto they call them ballast.
As a lad (1970's), my neighbor that worked in the Northern MN (USA) iron ore mines told me he ran the trains in the mine area with a remote control that was housed in a backpack he wore. I didn't believe him...
Nice one , reminds me of the cane trains in Queensland shunting by the driver on the ground with a remote control
He was right I worked at a RR USSteel I started in 1973 by late 70’s early 80’s off come the backpack a box about 10 to 12 inches wide to 4 inches deep 4 inches tall placed on a belt rite in front of your belly he would stand on the ground and could see some lights on one of the four corners of the engine and the roe of different colors lights would tell him what the engine was about to do stop,reverse,forward or pumping air. He would throw switches and sometimes he would have another person on the other end of train with a radio telling him what to do
@@buffalobob7172 Thank you for the info!!!
Im sure these driverless train is just another accident waiting to happen
@MysticRenn and the track can be in poor condition also
An excellent video indeed. There's something that's hard to describe, maybe a kind of realisation really, that comes over a person as they see these things in action for real. I worked in the Pilbara for a few weeks in an elevated area, next to the open valley of Karijini National Park, where I seen the constant stream of autonomous trains arrive off the main north/south line and take the large circular loop below the loading stations where they fill the trucks one by one and gradually loop around to take their place alongside the main line back north once again, moving Australia to China, one truckload at a time. They take around 3hrs to complete a loading phase before setting off north to port once again. On cool still mornings, once the final trucks had been loaded and despite being a few km/miles from the train, we could clearly hear the engines pick up from 3hrs or so idle and load up followed by the clinking of every truck's connection to the next as they took up the slack. Most interesting and impressive. Automation and AI will no doubt continue continue to hone this process and remove more humans from the entire process, including the mining. I hope China will continue to remain a willing customer...
Thankyou mr. John Phillips videos.
Very different views of passing of two trains running through two railway tracks into one direction in parallel as twins single lines.
Thankyou for this very good surprise.
Carry-on your greate efforts.
Thank you , it's an interesting railway
@@johnphillips592 ❤️
as long as there is a balance between automation and manned work then I don’t see a problem
The problem I have with automation is when company’s abuse it to kick out the middle guy to save a few extra coins
Fantastic. Feast for the eyes. I like it. Thanks for the efforts.
Thanks for your kind comment , glad you enjoyed it .
Great to see train drivers being unemployed and obsolete!! Well done corporate agendas!!
They can always learn to code.
Thank you for sharing this video, it is good to see some green foliage in the landscape as well. I do enjoy the drone footage.
Thank you Robyn , they have had a lot of rain over there in recent months .
INTRAMOTIV in St Louis, MO is currently working on autonomous self powered rail cars. The cars are battery powered and when connected together in a train they all work together forming a "locomotiveless" train. Still in development but targeting this very market.
Sounds like the rails were freshly ground in most of those shots.
Cool stuff!
On long runs like that, the biggest hazard is boredom and sensory hypnosis. I have witnessed napping engineers more than once. I gave up the ass callouses many years ago for less boring, dangerous and terrifying jobs. Ever been in a train wreck? I have, several. They are really loud.
you done?
@@OregonCrowno
I worked on the two perma nent line camps and just to see the rail grinder at work during the night in winter with ahalf moon was mind blowing, i called the scene the lonely Dragon serpent, the pilbara has always been a magical place for me.
This is a good show, driverless, thats very good. Keep it up.
Somebody sitting in front of a computer a thousand miles away is driving the train
Great photography. Well done.
Just watched your video, very well done and informative. It used to be empowering to see a person in charge of all that machinery and to think of what people are capable of. This makes people servants to the machines, fueling and repairing them as needed. Until they can work out how to do that also.
Excellent drone work, Mr. Phillips! Beautiful dramatic shots.
Thanks Jeff , it was a long way to get there but worth the effort .
that same train could have pulled both of those lines
Spent billions to avoid paying a driver thousands. Yep.
Driver salary is us$100k a year plus cost of flights and accommodation Rio pay for
amazing what pops up in your Yt feed, i had no idea these existed. greetings from the insane asylum formerly known as Queensland.
Thanks , glad you enjoyed it , feel free to view more of my videos
What have I become???? Watching videos of unmand LOOOOOOONG ASS trains in the outback!!! 😊😊😊😊😊😊 I need to get a grip!!
I remember in NZ on the seventies NZ Railways instituted the use of radios in shunt operations and the union furore that followed. On a lengthy goods train at the marshalling yard suddenly a ground shunt staff of 3 or 4 replaced by 1 guy with a radio. But that's just the start. Next it was single man train crews losing the loco assistant. Elimination of the rear guards van staff (read caboose) And then lose of the single ground shunt man when the driver escaped the shunt loco controls for a remote hand set on the ground. Bring back memories people's? That's how big business rolls with the how can we squeeze the last ounce from that bottom dollar. Chime in peeps from around
the world..
Great video sir. A suggestion. Maybe have the captions on screen longer for those that watch at 1.25 or 1.5 video speed. Keep up the good work!!
Thanks for the comment , I now do voice overs on my video's after a lot of comments that the captions tended to distract from the video content .
Looks hot AF! What beautiful country.
12:38 amazing!
Very interesting.
In case of an accident, how do they get the thing to stop? Do they have sensors that will go off if they detect an impact?
My understanding is that there is a human supervisor watching them for the whole trip. They can do an emergency stop remotely from a Perth control centre
@@Mechknight73 Yes - they are driven by humans its just that they are not located in the cabin.
No doubt that they can stop that train remotely. But if something is going wrong and building up to a potential accident how would they know apart from continous surveillance by camera all along the length of the train .
@@ianmontgomery7534 No, they are not driven by humans in Perth. The train controller does nothing more than they used to - operate the signals to tell the train (was once the driver, now the train) when to start and stop. Based on the signals, the train drives itself. Eg; If the signal 20kms ahead is at stop, a driver can choose to keep going at full speed, stop at the signal, and wait for it to clear or he can slow down now and if the signal has cleared before he gets there he won't have to stop, or he can stop anywhere between here and there (say, on a downhill grade rather than the uphill grade the signal is on to make starting off easier) and wait for it to clear (I say 'signal' but it's all in the cab so yes, you can see a signal that's 20 kms away). The train controller nor the program that runs the train can't do that. All the controller can do is set the signal to stop and the train will continue at track speed until it gets to where braking would normally occur to stop at that signal.
@@jkardez4794 They don't. No one is looking at the view from the camera. The only time they do is when an impact sensor on the loco alarms so they look to see what the train has hit (usually a cow) but whatever it was, they only see it after the event and then decide whether or not to stop the train. There was a time around 2016 while they were still testing it that a driver of an empty train rolling down the hill towards where the Robe train was filmed noticed that a man who had obviously decided to kill himself had laid his neck across the track. The driver slammed on the brakes and stopped before he cut the man's head off but had that been an AutoHaul train, no one would've known until the driver of a Robe train (still manned to this day because Robe will not spend the money to AutoHaul their track) came along and then only if it was daylight.
cool video!
7:48 Two very long trains, just sitting there for 5 hours, because Rio Tinto thinks somehow that this is cheaper? That's 5 lost hours, for each train... but with people in control, they could have called ahead, at least to find out if they can move under caution? Also - people can predict and react to the unexpected - computers can only respond if what has happened is in the programming, to begin with?
In this case no, they were replacing a bridge girder just up the track , no trains could get through
Ive flown my drone over the tain ans had gotten some aweome videos and photos. When i drove darwin to cairns i had left my car unattended for 5 mins. And in that time my drone and camera that were on the back seat were stolen. If i ever see my videos uploaded onto youtube ill be going after whoever uploaded them.
There goes the driver
That was a great video John!
Thanks for that , enjoyed making it and glad you enjoyed it
Looking forward to visiting Australia and meeting my relations in Campbelltown NSW.
you have double empty tracts, latch and pull side cea siding to siding
Absolutely insane. Suppose there's an obstruction on the track? One of those old GE clunkers catches fire? How long until a Rapid Response Team could get out to it?
5 weeks
oh that's why the train for me is upside down
🙃 guess where I live.
In America, there is no iron mining. There is refining as there is more than we need. I can only guess that this ore is going to the ones who need it, China. Amazing footage. Thanks for sharing it. I truly enjoyed it.
Thanks , glad you enjoyed it , yes , most of the iron ore is shipped overseas .
That's not true, though iron mining is certainly waning in the US with mines continuing to shutdown (this has been the pattern with every type of ore). But there are still a handful in operation, producing millions of tons annually. Not just refining, but actual mining. Though there are also reclamation efforts from tailings, that might be what you're referring to.
The diesels could do with a bit of a paint job, even if they are in the outback a lot.
Agreed but some are better than others
Don't show this to members of any of the railroad workers labor unions in North America who think that this train should have 3 or 4 crew if it was in the United States lol
Having driverless trains makes so much sense in the modern society. Technoloy can easily handle rail networks as they are a fixed and controllable asset, every centimetre of the line can be identified, every crossing, every rise and every fall of the line.
The old every train needs a driver no longer stacks up, Now a days it’s no train needs a driver, as they only complicate the management on moving a train from point a to b to c with human limitations.
I would prefer to see drivers driving those trains. Human operation of those massive, heavy locomotives and those heavy Oreo cars promote safety.
That was fun. I wonder why they sat there for 5 hours with the engines running? Perhaps they could've aired up the consist 45 mins before departure or switched off two engines and left one engine running to maintain brake pipe pressure. I dunno seems like a waste of fuel but who am I but a TH-cam nobody with just another opinion?
I thought the same , maybe something to do with keeping the air up , they have no one to put the hand brakes on .
@@johnphillips592 The lead locomotive is the one responsible for the air brakes, both in controlling them and building air. The second two are only there to assist in power and braking. Now it might be different in autohaul but I doubt it. I don't know if these are setup with auto start/stop systems on them I would guess yes. They would shutdown base on water temp air temp etc. The problem I see with that and this might be the reason why they are left running is Autohaul can't predict when they will be on the move again, some guy or girl clicks start on the computer at the dispatch office and the train goes, so there be no time to start the second two. From what I have seen the engines are setup to go at any moment. If you list to the clips in your video John like at 5:25 these ES44DCi's are not in low idle (happens when you put the reverser in neutral to save fuel and start the auto start/stop system) they are in high idle ready to go. at 15:20 when the sun is shirring through the cab and no one is in it that to me... just scary reminds me of the movie Unstoppable.
I spent 5 years driving these babies out of 7 miles and the Cape Love the job
Glad it brought back some fond memories , thanks for the comment .
Even the trains look like rusty iron ore
Yes , the dust covers everything
So you mean to tell me there’s no engineer or conductor on those trains
None at all
What made the company come up with that idea?
having to drive for 2 days in a land of middle of nowhere with no human settlements is quite exhausting especially having to crew change
At the tonnages and train lengths that they operate, and the number of trains they move, automation pays for itself in six years in labor costs alone.
computers really do be takin jobs
They had one derail last month 😂
Hopefully it cost them millions to clean up the mess and repair the damages to their equipment.
Question, How many coal cars doesit take to have the equivalant amount of metal to buuild one outback?
How in the ____ did this end up in my algorithm???
SkyNet is here.
Driverless ore trains! Fascinating!
Are these the ones that will become battery electric? Regen braking down hill when fully loaded recharging enough to get back up again when empty.
No , that's Fortesque but not at the moment., I think they are having problems
Quick question - at about 13:00 mark you can see what looks like rail that is laid inside of the actual rail the trains are running on - is that some sort of derail prevention? Thanks and great video!
That is new rail ready to be installed on the curve
If Francis Bourgeois were trackside his reaction may well bring about the end of life on this planet 😂
They are very fortunate that the regulator has given them the authority to run driverless. The actual presence of a driver doesn't do much, as the resistance to autonomous operation was related to the number of road crossings. A train were operating at a speed that far exceeded the ability of the train to be halted in the event of an obstructed crossing. Money rules!
Probably cheaper to have a highly paid driver...
Fifty plus years ago I lived in Port Hedland . The trains we saw each day came from Mt Newman or Mt Goldsworthy. An occasional road trip to Dampier ( now Karratha) to see these trains. So you ask what does this have to do with driverless trains? Well the drivers had a regular habit of going on strike, withdrawing their labour. Often at a time when the Iron Ore Companies were trying to renegotiate their delivery contracts with steel companies in Japan. These strikes were so regular that in Japanese the word “strike” was known as the Australian disease! Driverless trains only go on strike if the drivers (on contract) in Perth withdraw their labour. Very unlikely!
@@michaelhayden725 Fair enough but how's this for a wild idea? Improve company/employee relations... Radical I know but worth a try if anyone cared.
Good morning Good afternoon Good night.
Gained another follower here in Brazil.
Your videos are fantastic, very beautiful places.
Congratulations.
Hugs.
Cesar
Hello Cesar , thank you , glad you enjoy my videos and thanks for the comment .
Great work 💖💖
Thanks , glad you enjoyed it .
wierd to think trains havent been automated and suddenly cars are supposed to become , hah
Thanks for sharing. Nevertheless the question comes up: WHY? The only argument would be cost cutting. But then may be 50 or more families would have jobs. Fact is ,the bigger the company...the more greed there is. And Rio Tinto is no exeption. Even worse, they are one of the biggest polluters of this planet and aboriginal people of Australia had to take them to court to get some compensation for the blasting of their two 46000 year old ancient rock shelters for the greed of more iron ore.
Shameful as much as polluting the air senseless for 5 hours like the other mate pointed out.
From the beginning, Rio Tinto's operations have had adverse environmental impacts. Aside from the effect on the land of the open-cast mining, operations in Spain befouled the air by heating ore on site to burn off the sulfur. The heavy smoke damaged vegetation, crops, and the health of local residents.
You are a lier
I presume that you have never , ever, in your life , used or utilised any thing made of steel, iron, or any other mineral extracted from the earth !
@@neilward9932 As it is with people making presumtion , you are wrong. I don't think that you will understand the in depth meaninglessness of your claim. Have fun with that level of thinking.
@@selcukcilek555 I will have fun, and I can also spell "presumption" correctly!
@@neilward9932 You know what? I feel enlightened to have guessed your mind-set correctly. I mean instead of thinking about your shallow, senseless initial comment you are trying to mock me with a typo I made. There's definitely not much fun in your life. Try to change , educate yourself to reach a basic intellectual level.
These driverless trains are intimidating as heck! Like just getting close to them with their sheer size is enough to say “nope”. But everything Rio does is big. Then you see them running parallel in the same direction and your like that’s just freaky!
Yes they sure are , just to watch one move off without a person on board is quite a sight to see
@@johnphillips592 Be the absolute perfect train for "HOBO's and Train Hoppers" (no one to see them getting on - or off, at signal stops along the way)
@@WSTLNZ These trains run in the middle of nowhere , not much point riding them .
@@johnphillips592 Always a "point" to riding something - instead of walking - as who in their right mind (or in the mind of anything else) would WALK 1600 miles?
Great Video, I know this area is isolated, but surely there are some risks to people and property with driverless trains, thanks for sharing
yes
Driver or not , if you get in the way of these trains they wont stop in a hurry .
I suspect that having a hazardous encounter with a driverless train is way, way, down on the list of things that can kill you in that locale.
Is there any vehicle easier to automate
How does the train sense an obstruction on the tracks, human, animal, vehicle, machinery, or other debris?
There are cameras on the locos that are monitored from the control room but these trains are heavy and don't stop easily , maned or not .
What is going to happen if there is know satellite working
That turned into Koyaanisqatsi for a minute there
WOW that's a heavy haul !!
I wonder if they are running Cattron or Control Chief systems? I worked on installs for Cattron and was a CMO for years with short line rail. Them 2% grades are making those ladies sweat a little :) I am so fortunate to have been a composite mechanic and a working CMO for the years I did that and I am so fortunate to not do it still, I miss it but it was some hard work.
Thanks for the vids bro, made me smile and have good memories!
If airplanes fly without the pilot ... the train can travel without the locomotive driver as well !
Where is all the money going from all the years and years of mining?
To the shareholders of the mining company. The superannuation funds, moment and dad investors the odd mining magnate.
Imagine being paid to go to work each day (The controller) and play with possibly the biggest "Trainset" in the world. Its just a little big bigger than mine but Im not the least bit envious.
audio on only the left ear makes some parts difficult to watch
Sorry about that , you are the first person who has notified me of this , my shotgun mic only records in mono but I thought it was on both tracks will see if I can do something about it
Are there some daredevils riding on that train?
once a train is loaded and ready to go, who initializes the loco to start moving? control center like with a drone?
It is set to auto by an employee on the ground then the control centre in Perth takes over .
David Rayner has a video showing how it’s done - he’s obviously one of the drivers or was one. He set it all up, locked the loco cab, radioed up the control folks and they sent the train on its merry little way. Unto about half an hour ago I had no idea such a system existed - I’m from Scotland and we have nothing similar. It’s amazing to see such a massive train trundle away on its own!
@@Highland_Moo Yes, I retired in Dec 2019 after 10 years at Cape Lambert. BTW, I was in Scotland in 2018 went the system went 'live'. Absolutely beautiful place. On my last shift before I went, I drove a train from Tom Price to Cape Lambert and when I came back 6 weeks later, I was told I'd never go there again and I didn't. Spent my final year in the yard and on the Robe line. At least we at Cape Lambert had the Robe line. No other depot still drives on the main line at all. Very sad.
Did those wigwags come on upon approach of a residential area, or did it sense your nearby car and is warning you in case you had your back turned?
I presume you mean the flashing ditch lights , they come on when the horn blows and they are programmed to do that at level crossings
Muito top este video
Thank you , and thanks for the comment .
Thats kind of scary no drivers at all.
Here am I, using A.I. to watch A.I. working as A.I.