Retired out of the game now, but as a 45+ year veteran snowcat rider with deep experience from ditch banging, ice racing, mountain riding, trail rider, et al that last bought a Polaris Pro RMK 800HO around 2019, that sled was way more capable than I was and got me into places I shouldn't be at that stage in my life for under $11k OTD. Most amazing thing I'd ever ridden, all the years of dumping huge $$$$ into mod sleds, out the box it was the best you could ask for. What else could you really need than that? Had huge fun seasons on M7 Cats, Escape RMKs, Rev Summits, Mountain Max triples, but the lightness of the Pro chassis Polaris with a hot twin 800 or Summit Gen4, honestly what else does 85-90% of the market actually need? Economics of owning toys is gone and the lifeblood of the sport, working class men 18-40 is gone. No one can afford multiple toys at $15k-25k+ each, vehicle and trailer to pull them at $60K+, fuel at $5/gal to run them, consumable parts that don't last for $2k/season, etc etc etc. Sad but it'll all go away- all because of corporate greed via investor paybacks for the OEMs, ridiculous federal regulations, and ultimately lack of interest and feasibility of ownership by the next generations. The world can't finance it way to sustainability for everything.....
Oh yeah, and a thing called a changing climate. 72 year old trail rider here. I have a 2004 Firecat F7 EFI NightFire. Last time on the snow was back in 2008. Sitting in near climate control storage with 800 miles on the OD. It has become such an expensive destination sport, I just could not keep up after buying my first home.
I think all the manufacturers are pricing people out of the sport. I mean every year they go up thousands. I don’t know how anyone can buy one every year
Couldn’t agree more it’s gotten out of hand! I have no idea how they can correct it but definitely keeping to overproduce and reck the re sale value is not helping any of us.
I live in Manitoba, 62 yrs old and still love riding. My take on the industry is the only people who are out there are us grey hairs. Rarely see the younger riders out. To expensive, no interest, etc. so glad I grew up when I did.
I’m 30. When I was a kid in Michigan, every kid my age had a carbed 440 or something that would ride around on. Now I don’t even know kids in my area that would have a sled, and the winters have been so inconsistent I don’t know where or when they would ride them. It’s terribly sad, the end of an era. Now everyone just rides side by sides.
Definitely crazy we have to find a way to keep the younger generations in the sport for sure! Having access to places to ride and affordable sleds to ride. Side by sides have definitely started to take over
I’m a big fan of Arctic cat from MI and my heart really goes out to them. All of snowmobiling is hurting right now. Arctic cat needs a fresh start. Only make trail sleds, focus on building a cheaper more affordable sled and getting families back into riding again. They need to re-kindle the passion for snowmobiling again and the Arctic cat name that sparked such a huge cult following.
I remember riding way back in the late 80s and early 90s you could buy a belt for 30$ now the same belt is 150$ plus you could buy runners wear bars for 20$ oil was 1$ quart helmets good one 75$ jackets were like 75$ tops now same jacket is 500$ all day. The sport has killed itself in a way. I refuse to buy new all that efi garbage no way electronics an snow/moisture is not good later. Having all those sensors feeding off each other in stupid carbs work fine less crap to deal with later having to take a sled to a dealer for all work is dumb. 1 sensor goes bad way out in the North 40 you are done
It's not just snowmobiling and recreational... it's nearly every industry. Agriculture equipment is out of whack with poor prices and ungodly expensive equipment... which in turn affects the rest of the population, which comes full circle back to snowmobiles and recreational. When people's pocket books can't pencil out expenses, a lot of things take a back seat.
The second year of a chassis isn’t necessarily a complete drop off because some wait a year to make sure all first year issues are taken care of. Year 3 is your dip year
I think the economy is pricing people out, everything is getting expensive. Its hard to justify dropping $ on a toy when snow has been spotty over last couple years when people are hurting. The base model 858 has an MSRP of just under 16k USD. By most reports even the base model shocks are pretty decent on the Cat. So you can still get a decent entry level sled that has all the other goodies of the flagship sled minus the G8 and higher end shocks for reasonable. I understand why they did the 600 last year but don’t get why its there for this year. By all accounts its not saving you weight and not saving that much $ over a base model 858. I have only played with my G8 gauge in the garage so far but I think its way ahead of the polaris. Havent messed with the doo gauge.
I think a lot of people like the feeling of a 600 they claim it revs faster and is easier to ride for some people. That is what a lot of people claim at least. I don't have one. I agree things are soooooo expensive!
I bought my 22’ Hardcore for like 16k out the door in MN. Now the local dealer is selling brand new M8000s for 10k and they can’t get rid of them. Used sleds aren’t moving at giveaway prices either! I’m not buying new anymore. I’ll just buy a year old sled with 200 miles on it next year for 8k less from a private party and skip paying all the bullshit dealer fees and taxes.
Snowmobiling has definitely become a hobby for the higher income people. When I was a kid in the 80's everyone had a snowmobile, now there's hardly any kids with sleds. Low snow and high prices are the biggest cause of this. Another problem is people seem to think if they don't have the top of the line sled they aren't going to have any performance. The fact is a bottom level 600 still has tremendous performance vs just a few years ago. Not everyone can afford a bmw m5 just like not everyone is entitled to be able to afford a boost, 9r or doo 850 turbos.
Yep. I have 1 2008 and 3 2009 Ski-Doo Summits. All were bought used at different times with ~1500 miles on them. All had small repairs needed when I got them, but I'm still into them and a used 4-position trailer for less than $9K. Yes they need some work occasionally, but all snowmobiles do. My family enjoys them immensely. My boys will each get one of these when they move out of the house, and when the last one goes I'll buy a new one for myself.
Almost everyone had a snowmobile around here also. I live between the two Minnesota snowmobile producers and now a fraction have newer snowmobile models. The rest ride 20+ year old machines or don't ride anymore. The ridiculous prices of everything is killing the powersports market. I remember in the 1990s that the most popular models were in the 500 - 600 cc range. The top models weren't as popular.
@@jasons2054 Because everyone wasn't in a social media pissing match in the 1990s. If we're honest, most of us don't have the skill to put a top of the line machine to the test. Most putt around on the trail, and occasionally get off onto a meadow that is easy to see from the trail. I see it on every ride. I have gone with people that won't take their turbo 850 mountain sleds off trail, and are freaked out that I'm sidehilling on my 15 year old sleds.
If you want to be a better channel, do more research before commenting. Washington, Oregon have been having some of the best early season conditions in years. I just rode two days ago in 3' of powder with another 2-3' base in the Sierras. You also mentioned Ski-doo and Polaris guages without realizing that Arctic Cat's G8 guage by Garmin is hands down, the nicest, most impressive guage out there, not even close.
Midwest is #1 for sales. No snow=no sales. Even our dmv in Minnesota is begging us to buy a trail sticker. Sno x is dead also. Dreg racing without a 4 stroke turbo is history. These manufacturers better move to another side of town.
Arctic Cat was building the Yamaha Chassis so of course their Production Volume will be down in 2026.. I assume the 2025 sleds have already been built.
@@AjStoffle Bejing Biden put an Embargo against Russia. Russia was a large market for Yamaha's 2024 was the last year for Yamaha sales every place except for the USA. 2025 is the last year for Yamaha sled sales in the USA
They’re marketing teams are doing amazing work, guys buy into the hype. Im probably an outlier but I still have my G4, it owes me nothing. I wrench on it myself almost every week but im in the sport with a few hundred dollars a year. If you can’t afford a brandnew sled every year just maintain your current sled. Yea a turbo or a big bore would be nice but the chassis haven’t changed much for the last 4-5years. My 2 cent
Imo the single biggest issue is used sled values or even the ability to sell them at all. They sold so many machines over covid so there's a glut of used stuff on the market that u can't give away. So you're losing like 15k on your 2 year old sled that you've had out 6 times. I was considering getting the 858 but the dealer just kinda laughed when I asked him about trade value
Its not just snowmobiles, its literally everything that's become too expensive. Were living in times of big monopolies and that is the end of story. The thing we should be talking about is how to break them up.
I think a big part of the problem is big names in the industry refer to everything as "the best" or "what is the best" rather then saying everything is good and it really comes down to rider talent. Because let's be honest. All 3 new platforms are amazing, and all 3 have things they shine in over the others, if you take all 3 new platforms in a NA trim, is one really the best? No, because we can do anything on one that we can on the other, so instead of referring to sleds as to what's better, the big names in the sport should be pushing RIDER SKILLS and the way each sled reacts to different riding styles.I feel like the whole "this sled is the best" attitude is what's killing the sport because as you know, majority of people are sheep and they can't think on their own, so they go fishing for info and all they hear is "this sled is the best". I personally still ride a 2018 mountain cat 153, I paid 15,600CAD for it brand new, and there are so many guys where I ride with brand new turbos they paid 30grand for because they are "the best" and aside from climbing straight up a hill, I go everywhere they go, not because my sled is the best, but because I can ride the thing!! Look at GGB mountain cans, anyone with any knowledge knows they are a garbage can, but they advertise great and got a bunch of embassidors to say they are the best and that spread like wild fire and now social media is full of people wondering why their sleds bog lol. Sorry for the rant... it's just my 2 cents. 90% of the people I see riding turbos have no buisness riding one, they only have one because it strokes their egos. It's like everyone is just looking for some sort of assurance or proof to back themselves up as to why their chosen brand is the best.
I use to buy a new sled every year or every two years at most. I started buying new in 95 until the 2010's. The prices just got crazy every year and today they are insane... I bought Cat too and think they make great sleds.. The entire industry is destroying itself. I have seen it at the dealer level in the early 2000's. They screwed over dealers and closed them without a care..It's sad but I don't see the industry getting better anytime soon. My dealer in upstate NY use to snocheck 150 new sleds a year and sell another 200 used sleds. Now a dealer near me is lucky to snow check 12 sleds a year and nothing used.
For what it's worth, i believe there was a time frame in the recent past that sleds had more beneficial advancements to make them absolutely great. I'd say 2015-2020. They were selling great and quite honestly worth it (like $15000 mark) for a loaded sled. Then turbos and tech entered. In my opinion, it really took a lot away from the sport and priced the average consumer out. I am thinking/hoping Cat is gonna come outta this ok in the end. Cuz Polaris and Doo dealers are sitting on MOUNTAINS of inventory. Dealers can't give these sleds away right now because they're overpriced... like WAY overpriced
Just bought a new Ski Doo 4 stroke and now have to sell one of my Arctic Cat's. The 2002 ZL550 has given 2 decades of repair free pleasure and it's warm to drive. The 2018 ZR8000 constantly got warranty recall issues ( is at the dealer now; two weeks) and it's cold to drive. Can't wait to get it home to sell it. Never another Cat. Most of my sleds have been Polaris but gave up in 2006 when they started using biodegradable pistons. So it's up to Ski Doo to keep me sledding.
I owned a 2002 ZL 550 and had a couple of Cougar 550 L/Cs before that. They were only 80 HP engines, but absolutely bulletproof simple piston port engines with dual VM38 carbs. They would run and run with little maintenance.
Today, Textron announced they are pursuing "strategic alternatives" for their powersports business. Generally speaking, "strategic alternatives" in the corporate world 95% of the time means it's for sale.
I newzTV reported today that the Arctic Cat plants in Thief River Falls and St. Cloud will be shut down indefinitely in the middle of 2025 after manufacturing commitments are reached. The employees left will be layed off. If Polaris was smart they would buy their patents and name and build Arctic Cats in Roseau.
@jasons2054 With BRP selling both the Ski-doo and Lynx brands with a different market focus there is no reason that Polaris couldn't do the same with Arctic Cat. Plus there is plenty of money to be made selling parts and accessories for an already installed customer base.
I bought a new 2024 Catalyst Riot 600 1.75 that my dealer had leftover. I used to buy a new sled every other year or so, but now it's like every 7 or 8 years. The other issue, at least where I live in the Black Hills, SD (baby mountains) they only stock a few crossover sleds, and those sell out right away while dozens and dozens of mountain sleds just sit. It's assumed that everyone has the time and money to travel out west all winter long, but very few do.
I live in the North Dakota red river valley literally the flattest land on planet earth yet when you go to a dealership 90 percent of the sleds are mountain sleds, you have to drive at least 15 hours 1 direction to see a mountain from here
I love to snowmobile but there is just to many (professional snowmobilers ) which we didn’t have 20 yrs ago, now and all the stuff and all the technology and all the inflated prices! Regular Joes like me don’t buy a new sled every yr or even every 2 yrs! I buy one and use it tell it blows up. Can’t afford $16000 every yr sorry! Don’t have a money tree lying around!
Your comment about bare stock truck. I bought a couple in the 90s. I modified it way cheaper than the dealer options. Radio, tires rims etc. Not a bad philosophy
All 3 of these guys know exactly what’s going on. I cant see a good outcome if these prices don’t come down. We have to remember how many bailouts BRP skidoo have been gone through. I don’t even own a skidoo and I’m paying taxes because we got an idiot for a prime minister that gave the bailout.
What current model snowmobile compares to the 90's snowmobiles like an XLT and then compare the costs. Its not as bad as you think, the problem is we all want the top of the line machines.
I spoke with the Track 2 Trail dealership owner in Sioux Falls, SD and he claimed powersports in general have just been selling extremely poor. The only new items people can afford is the ones with little to no extra options. I blame the government for printing all that money and handing out to everyone during covid. Created all this big boom in the economy and now its all a thing of the past.
I find that hard to believe that Yamaha was funding it all. Arctic cat is owned by textron and they are as big if not bigger than Yamaha. I don’t think textron wants Yamaha. They didn’t seam to exited about it when they purchased Arctic cat.
I rode for 30 years got tired of playing the no snow game got tired of having to spend 1200 to ride per weekend going north aint cheap i am southern Minnesota most years are barley ridable here. Sold my last sled 2 winters ago was thinking about getting back in but from what i see looks like another bunk year again overall. Got a friend who works at a Polaris dealer in Minneapolis they are not doing well atm
Hate to hear that, but understand with the no snow and prices! these winters have definitely been brutal and sucks the Midwest has been struggling to get snow. Hoping they get some this winter for the sake of people like your friend in the industry.
i was gonna ask a question but it was to long for instagram lol, but i found a way to revise it to be shorter lol. would you rather, 30k stocker, or 15k sled with 15k in mods
@@brentcook24 cause in my mind its simple. if you dont care about warranty you can get a matryx rmk, do anything rail related, do a turbo, probably any set of shocks you want, probably pay someone if the sled you found wasnt the right lenght, handlebars and probably more. vs warranty if something breaks
Ski-doo makes a snowmobile for absolutely every niche of the market! And this makes it very difficult to for Arctic Cat and even Polaris to maintain a profitable market share. I bought an Expedition Extreme 850 a couple of years ago and when I crossed shopped other the other brands I was truly stunned about how much more selection Skidoo has in their line up.
Russia was one of the biggest buyers of Yamaha snowmobiles, Arctic Cat built Yamaha, since Bidenomics put sanctions on Russia and they can’t buy them I think that just put to much pressure on an already fragile market especially since the 23 flop of no snow, I’m from North Dakota and went to college in thief river falls drove buy the plant every day, you would think since the manufacturer is less than an hour away there would be Arctic cat dealers on every corner, Fargo cat went out of business last year , the grand forks cat dealer left years ago , one car sales place sells cat now obviously that was a bad idea to do now , I think its going to be a little scary yet but if Trump lifts the sanctions on Russia the world’s economy will get better
The market is Minnesota,Wisconsin and Michigan. If there's no snow there all going under folks. This has nothing to do with a cheaper sled because thay already have that. But the market is muscle sleds. I bought a renegade adrenaline 850 base for $13.500 new. That's pretty cheap. Sold it that year for 13k because no snow.
I live in Wiscosin and right now the state is getting hit but rain next week,hope atleast up north gets pounded,last year sucked and not looking good now
You can't force people to be financially responsible. Just like the auto industry - some of the first vehicles to roll of the line are the top-of-the-line models. And they sell. Nobody is FORCING you to buy a boost or a turbo R.
If they all made cheap stuff that’s fun. Not capable, not powerful, just fun. Like a kids sled upgraded to handle an adult. That’s fun trying to stay on it and trying to climb small things in the yard. But these new sleds are so capable it’s almost impossible to have a challenge without going to a mountain. Like keep the big sleds for the guys that can go to the mountains every week end and are looking to climb everything but add like a sled the size of an old Elan and put in a 600 in it. Or even bring back triples
Don’t forget the Canadian 🇨🇦market. These sleds are about 30% more expensive up here plus all the taxes. Sleds are way over priced . It’s a rich person sport now.too much tech has killed the sport I’m an old guy . They have gone from off road tractor to now they are lik3 a corvette
@RogerThat94 My cabin is in curtis in the U.P...50/50 amazing on trail. Haven't played alot off yet but just playing in the 4 foot of powder we had over Thanksgiving it didn't struggle very playful front end pulls up with ease over my old 19 assault 144 800 ...so far this is a huge upgrade
Corporations jacked pricing up in every aspect of the markets during the pandemic,and they never really came down,only up.Heavy equipment,sxs,Atv's all overpriced.Buying used is the way to go.
why aren't the manufacturers focusing on the entry level? it only makes sense to target new riders with affordable entry level machines instead of pushing 20k plus machines in every ad you see.I paid less for my new leftover '24 sled than I did for my '23 atv. I will never upgrade to a 20k plus machine.how much farther can r and d go to improve a machine for a weekend rider ? keep them affordable and let aftermarket develop the rest.
My mom bought my dad a brand new 440 everest in 1979 for under 900$ thats equivalent to $3500 in todays money. Its no different than trucks and everything. The cost of new stuff has skytocketed way fast than inflation. Grmated theyre far more capable so there is more value, but i know guys that were dumping 30+k into mod sleds in the 90's as well and todays factory sleds would destroy those machines. As far as entry level sleds, imo thats the used market. Why woukd you go buy an expensive new entry level sled for 15+k when you can buy a top of the line, low mile sled thats 2 or three years old for the same or less
I bought my 2017 xlt f350 with a sticker price of 68,000 and 10 grand off in 2018 Looking for a suv for the wife , new ranger lariat is 63,000 sticker price, you cant convince me to buy any ranger for the price of a 1 ton diesel. Insane prices for everything these days.
Ya cat built Yamahas and im sure that helped out cat building new sleds. But thats not whats been pulling cat along more like cat was carrying yamaha along. Cats had the best 4 stroke snowmobiles for many years now. The Yamaha motor been great for cat but the Suzuki 1100 turbo that was introduced in 2009 with 180 HP charging the industry forever. I raced cat here in the NE since 2024-2017. SX and pro XC many wins and championships in my cats. Cat dominated XC for 2 decades now polaris just came to the party last couple years. I wouldn’t say Cat was or way behind doo or Polaris. In the midwest the only sled that 4:36 could win a XC race was a cat except the past few years. Cats engines have the best track record in the industry for HP and reliability. Its a fact look at all cats engines since 1990 i cant think of one plagued with problems. I can think of many from cat and doo though. Same goes for updates and shit Polaris always has a bunch doo has there share to. Not saying cat doesn’t haven’t bought new since 2017 my last racer. Iv been riding since i was 5 im now 45. Mechanic engine builder was a pro snowmobile racer. Love my cats been tough as nails for me iv broke very little parts. My father has new doos and 2024 catalysts. I ride his doos great sleds really enjoy riding them. But cant say there better than cats some ways they are some ways there not. Really dont think the catalyst is that much better than the pro cross trail riding anyway off trail probably lot better but idk. The seat is a way to hard on the new catalyst for long days in the saddle. The suspension valved to stiff feels like my XC race sled and thats way to stiff for average trail riders. Cat has made the fastest snowmobile forever now since the 650 wildcat anyway lol!!
Lots of cats here in nw wi. but the last 5 years trail's have only been open a had full of times. And when you ad the price of a new sled it's out of the question!
When is the last time you can buy a sled with no recalls, or very little. Manufacturers need to spend more time fine tuning the sleds instead of rushing them out or trying to the best out there. Would sell more of a reliable sled instead of the next best option that recalls in a month.
They are all completely out pricing the majority of the market share. You are always going to have your hardcore riders that want the best machine with all the bells and whistles. The barrier to entry is just to high. Need a machine that sells for between 6-8K.
Same with the car industry. Especially with dodge. They have lots of 2024 stuff sitting on the lot with 2025s rolling in. They pay money to have the car sit on their lot. The longer a car sits the more they pay for the car to sit. Prices need to drop
With Kids nowadays always on their phone or games , they got no interest. And sleds so high priced , its very sad . As for Arctic Cat , Textron is ruining the Cat name . Like Cat or not we need all the manufacturers in the business . It sure didnt help no snow in Minnesota last year .
Did you guys somehow miss Muskoka's day 1 on his 25' Expert? He went out with 9 Polaris riders and basically just sat and filmed. I mean yea he was riding with Keith Curtis who - in my opinion is the best rider out there - but what was the common denominator? Polaris. Show me a BRP rider doing that shit. I'll wait...
The shocking thing to me is many want Arctic Cat to fail. I don't understand why people want a brand to fail. Going down to a duopoly doesn't help snowmobiling. Prices will go up and innovation will stop. BRP is going to get killed with Trump's 25% tarrifs. However, the Canadian government will always bail them out. Polaris is in tough shape too. In fact, they might be worse off than Arctic because they don't have a huge conglomerate like Textron backing them. I bought a new Catalyst Riot 600 and it's an excellent crossover.
@brentcook24 Absolutely. I hope Arctic Cat can continue to get 4 stroke engines from Yamaha because that is definitely an advantage for them in the trail market. Those 998 turbos are still fast AF! Too much for me! Arctic Cat really needs a dual rail mountain sled, too. I don't think they should get rid of the monorail Alpha because it definitely has a market, but so many people say it's terrible to ride. Not sure because I just trail and boondock on a crossover 146.
Yea the market is done. They do t offer what i want or anything close in value. I don't want any tech on it at all. Your phone can handle everything that useless dash will ever tell you. No incentive to provide something reliable in the market. Good luck
Yamaha has gone the cheaper route with their 2 stroke dirtbikes. They are an old but proven design. No bells and whistles but it's a good Ole 2 stroke and you know what you are getting. Well, KTM just went bankrupt and they are the one pushing the limits and they sell way more new bikes. Maybe you are onto something
Basically all the toys are too expensive. And the overlooked number of choices of toy. Snowmobiles no longer compete against just motorcycles and the odd ATV anymore.
Why'd you change the channel name? "BC" threw me off. Everybody I know pronounces it "Ar-Tic Cat" ... simpler than trying to sound the C in Arctic and doesn't sound stupid like "Ark-Ti-Cat" the way some say it. I started with a 2003 Doo "Rev" and HATED it. Went to the new M7 the next year and have been a Cat guy ever since. Got a Khaos last year because the Cat lost the plot for ProClimb and Ascender with all the extra weight, so they weren't an option. And I couldn't find a nice used M8. Picked up the Catalyst and am struggling with it, but that's not the sled's fault... it's my out of shape-ness and lack of skill. It'll be fun when I figure things out. My Catalyst was $21k on Snow Check. It's the blue one and also got electric start. Then added $1500 in accessories. My butt is still sore.
All the sled co's knew an industry cliff fall was coming & projected 10 years,that was 13 years ago. The royalties the brands pay each other,the snowbike spike & quick fall & many didn't go back to sleds,the lowering of testosterone across the nation,the"blue screen" media addiction,new sleds piled up waiting for warranty repairs,low snow,to expensive to keep the nxt generation involved,single helicopter mother's feminizing boys ha,dealers not wanting trade ins ugh & more economy reasons. And yes we do not need a screen on our power toys.
The catalyst is the best mountain chassis on the market. Don’t regret that purchase at all. Even got my buddy off a Doo turbo to buy one and he wouldn’t go back.
Will be once the get rid of that single rail its complete trash ive seen so maby bent pound out tracks ladt a year all tge bracing breaks but hey its a personal choice i seen tons of alphas for parts 2 3 year old mountain sleds
Two things are currently killing the industry in my opinion and observation I could be wrong. 1. Spring Check Buyers - I get the idea behind it and I understand they are buyers but when you have guys/gals that buy a new sled every year regardless of the current condition of their current sled it allows the manufacturers to see production and to raise the price points by large percentages every year because they can bank on most of their sales being done before they even release the colors of the sled. These people also in order to afford the new one turn around and try to sell their moded out used sled for more than a new one. You mod out a 155 9r your going to be in a sled 25-30k This will also lead to people backing out of spring orders and flooding the market with previously thought sold sleds when they can't sell. The new consumer needs the used consumer to be able to afford a sled and without it the market becomes a stalemate. Sled and UTV owners are the one consumer that wholistically doesn't understand depreciation and market value. Example: There is a guy in Anchorage who has a used 21 freeride that been trying to sell for the last 3 years that still wants 16k. Who is going to buy that when you can spend 2k more and get a new one that the dealer has left over from 23 or 24. 2. Manufacturers- Simply put its just too much money, 20-23k for a new sled and 200 for a spare belt like a previous commenter had. A new sled in 2019 was around 15k on the high end. That's a 46 percent increase in 5 years and where does it stop. Do we really think we should be paying 30k for a new sled in a few years and 300 dollars for belts. With Artic Cat they have always been firmly in 3rd or 4th on the tree of desirable products and with the lack reliability its not surprising to see the news. Haven't seen a single 858 video where the sled doesn't bog or break. Now with a recall for detuning. Not good.
Retired out of the game now, but as a 45+ year veteran snowcat rider with deep experience from ditch banging, ice racing, mountain riding, trail rider, et al that last bought a Polaris Pro RMK 800HO around 2019, that sled was way more capable than I was and got me into places I shouldn't be at that stage in my life for under $11k OTD. Most amazing thing I'd ever ridden, all the years of dumping huge $$$$ into mod sleds, out the box it was the best you could ask for. What else could you really need than that? Had huge fun seasons on M7 Cats, Escape RMKs, Rev Summits, Mountain Max triples, but the lightness of the Pro chassis Polaris with a hot twin 800 or Summit Gen4, honestly what else does 85-90% of the market actually need? Economics of owning toys is gone and the lifeblood of the sport, working class men 18-40 is gone. No one can afford multiple toys at $15k-25k+ each, vehicle and trailer to pull them at $60K+, fuel at $5/gal to run them, consumable parts that don't last for $2k/season, etc etc etc. Sad but it'll all go away- all because of corporate greed via investor paybacks for the OEMs, ridiculous federal regulations, and ultimately lack of interest and feasibility of ownership by the next generations. The world can't finance it way to sustainability for everything.....
Oh yeah, and a thing called a changing climate. 72 year old trail rider here. I have a 2004 Firecat F7 EFI NightFire. Last time on the snow was back in 2008. Sitting in near climate control storage with 800 miles on the OD. It has become such an expensive destination sport, I just could not keep up after buying my first home.
The entire industrybis pricing us out of the sport, a gallon of oil $75; a belt going on $250, $1200+ for a monosuit, goggles, the list goes on.
True. Time to go back to the ole Carhartt mono suits, buy a greasy triple and rip like its 1999
@@2sleds1summit Can't beat the smell and sound from those old sleds and they hauled the mail on a lake.
I think all the manufacturers are pricing people out of the sport. I mean every year they go up thousands. I don’t know how anyone can buy one every year
Couldn’t agree more it’s gotten out of hand! I have no idea how they can correct it but definitely keeping to overproduce and reck the re sale value is not helping any of us.
that and the lack of snow last 4 yrs in the northeast! wouldn’t want to be a dealer that’s for sure 😢
Totally 10 years ago when you get a top of line sled for 12-14k and you could work 10-20 ot shifts a year to cover the cost of that. 30k ? Comon
Way way way over priced all of them.people are not gonna spend that much money on a mabie sport weather relaint.
Absolutely. The average family can't get into the sports. My only hobby is snowmobiling . Low snow has a lot of die hards rethinking.
I live in Manitoba, 62 yrs old and still love riding. My take on the industry is the only people who are out there are us grey hairs. Rarely see the younger riders out. To expensive, no interest, etc. so glad I grew up when I did.
I’m 30. When I was a kid in Michigan, every kid my age had a carbed 440 or something that would ride around on. Now I don’t even know kids in my area that would have a sled, and the winters have been so inconsistent I don’t know where or when they would ride them. It’s terribly sad, the end of an era. Now everyone just rides side by sides.
Definitely crazy we have to find a way to keep the younger generations in the sport for sure! Having access to places to ride and affordable sleds to ride. Side by sides have definitely started to take over
I could not have imagined a snowmobile costing more than the first truck I bought. The world has gone completely insane.
Pretty wild the prices on everything these days for sure but definitely crazy how our hobby has turned into such an expensive sport!
its simple,50% of market doesn't live where there is snow to ride 6 months a year. people aren't buying $20k sled to ride a few weekends a year.
I agree
I’m a big fan of Arctic cat from MI and my heart really goes out to them. All of snowmobiling is hurting right now. Arctic cat needs a fresh start. Only make trail sleds, focus on building a cheaper more affordable sled and getting families back into riding again. They need to re-kindle the passion for snowmobiling again and the Arctic cat name that sparked such a huge cult following.
I remember riding way back in the late 80s and early 90s you could buy a belt for 30$ now the same belt is 150$ plus you could buy runners wear bars for 20$ oil was 1$ quart helmets good one 75$ jackets were like 75$ tops now same jacket is 500$ all day. The sport has killed itself in a way. I refuse to buy new all that efi garbage no way electronics an snow/moisture is not good later. Having all those sensors feeding off each other in stupid carbs work fine less crap to deal with later having to take a sled to a dealer for all work is dumb. 1 sensor goes bad way out in the North 40 you are done
Snowmobiles that are 20k plus dollars is crazy. Parts are outrageous, the sport in itself is crazy expensive.
Side by sides are crazy overpriced if anyone hasn't noticed.
It's not just snowmobiling and recreational... it's nearly every industry. Agriculture equipment is out of whack with poor prices and ungodly expensive equipment... which in turn affects the rest of the population, which comes full circle back to snowmobiles and recreational.
When people's pocket books can't pencil out expenses, a lot of things take a back seat.
Amen the ag market is a huge with this as well
The second year of a chassis isn’t necessarily a complete drop off because some wait a year to make sure all first year issues are taken care of. Year 3 is your dip year
You’re 100% right there for sure! I was definitely one of those people that had it planned for second year we will see!
I think the economy is pricing people out, everything is getting expensive. Its hard to justify dropping $ on a toy when snow has been spotty over last couple years when people are hurting.
The base model 858 has an MSRP of just under 16k USD. By most reports even the base model shocks are pretty decent on the Cat. So you can still get a decent entry level sled that has all the other goodies of the flagship sled minus the G8 and higher end shocks for reasonable.
I understand why they did the 600 last year but don’t get why its there for this year. By all accounts its not saving you weight and not saving that much $ over a base model 858.
I have only played with my G8 gauge in the garage so far but I think its way ahead of the polaris. Havent messed with the doo gauge.
I think a lot of people like the feeling of a 600 they claim it revs faster and is easier to ride for some people. That is what a lot of people claim at least. I don't have one. I agree things are soooooo expensive!
I bought my 22’ Hardcore for like 16k out the door in MN. Now the local dealer is selling brand new M8000s for 10k and they can’t get rid of them. Used sleds aren’t moving at giveaway prices either! I’m not buying new anymore. I’ll just buy a year old sled with 200 miles on it next year for 8k less from a private party and skip paying all the bullshit dealer fees and taxes.
Snowmobiling has definitely become a hobby for the higher income people. When I was a kid in the 80's everyone had a snowmobile, now there's hardly any kids with sleds. Low snow and high prices are the biggest cause of this. Another problem is people seem to think if they don't have the top of the line sled they aren't going to have any performance. The fact is a bottom level 600 still has tremendous performance vs just a few years ago. Not everyone can afford a bmw m5 just like not everyone is entitled to be able to afford a boost, 9r or doo 850 turbos.
I agree 100% not everyone needs the top of the line, you just need something to get out and have fun
Yep. I have 1 2008 and 3 2009 Ski-Doo Summits. All were bought used at different times with ~1500 miles on them. All had small repairs needed when I got them, but I'm still into them and a used 4-position trailer for less than $9K. Yes they need some work occasionally, but all snowmobiles do. My family enjoys them immensely.
My boys will each get one of these when they move out of the house, and when the last one goes I'll buy a new one for myself.
@@brentcook24 I see Textron just suspended 25 production indefinitely.. pretty sad if they are done.
Almost everyone had a snowmobile around here also. I live between the two Minnesota snowmobile producers and now a fraction have newer snowmobile models. The rest ride 20+ year old machines or don't ride anymore. The ridiculous prices of everything is killing the powersports market.
I remember in the 1990s that the most popular models were in the 500 - 600 cc range. The top models weren't as popular.
@@jasons2054 Because everyone wasn't in a social media pissing match in the 1990s. If we're honest, most of us don't have the skill to put a top of the line machine to the test. Most putt around on the trail, and occasionally get off onto a meadow that is easy to see from the trail. I see it on every ride. I have gone with people that won't take their turbo 850 mountain sleds off trail, and are freaked out that I'm sidehilling on my 15 year old sleds.
If you want to be a better channel, do more research before commenting. Washington, Oregon have been having some of the best early season conditions in years. I just rode two days ago in 3' of powder with another 2-3' base in the Sierras. You also mentioned Ski-doo and Polaris guages without realizing that Arctic Cat's G8 guage by Garmin is hands down, the nicest, most impressive guage out there, not even close.
Midwest is #1 for sales. No snow=no sales. Even our dmv in Minnesota is begging us to buy a trail sticker. Sno x is dead also. Dreg racing without a 4 stroke turbo is history. These manufacturers better move to another side of town.
Gauge, A before U. 😉.
Arctic Cat was building the Yamaha Chassis so of course their Production Volume will be down in 2026.. I assume the 2025 sleds have already been built.
Yes agree volume will definitely drop and yes I believe they said all 2025 production was finished before their lay offs started.
@@AjStoffle Bejing Biden put an Embargo against Russia. Russia was a large market for Yamaha's 2024 was the last year for Yamaha sales every place except for the USA.
2025 is the last year for Yamaha sled sales in the USA
They’re marketing teams are doing amazing work, guys buy into the hype. Im probably an outlier but I still have my G4, it owes me nothing. I wrench on it myself almost every week but im in the sport with a few hundred dollars a year. If you can’t afford a brandnew sled every year just maintain your current sled. Yea a turbo or a big bore would be nice but the chassis haven’t changed much for the last 4-5years. My 2 cent
I agree the marketing teams are doing great! That is what a lot of people do it's a smart move!
Recalls was also a huge thing for buying a certain brand
Imo the single biggest issue is used sled values or even the ability to sell them at all. They sold so many machines over covid so there's a glut of used stuff on the market that u can't give away. So you're losing like 15k on your 2 year old sled that you've had out 6 times. I was considering getting the 858 but the dealer just kinda laughed when I asked him about trade value
Ya the used market is why I didn't get a new one this year as well. Just didn't make sense for me.
Artie Cat, nope, its Arctic Cat.
The stuff you are spewing about Arctic Cat isn’t exactly true. I’m a dealer, we can still get parts and sleds.
Its not just snowmobiles, its literally everything that's become too expensive. Were living in times of big monopolies and that is the end of story. The thing we should be talking about is how to break them up.
Definitely crazy how our hobby has gotten so expensive, but you’re 100% right everything is crazily priced these days!
Like always I love the content. Definitely better on the sound quality this time. Cant wait for the video in the mountain on thursday!!!!
Thank you! And thank you hopefully on the right track for better and better!
Textron should sell the company to the thief river falls community and let them run it....
I think a big part of the problem is big names in the industry refer to everything as "the best" or "what is the best" rather then saying everything is good and it really comes down to rider talent. Because let's be honest. All 3 new platforms are amazing, and all 3 have things they shine in over the others, if you take all 3 new platforms in a NA trim, is one really the best? No, because we can do anything on one that we can on the other, so instead of referring to sleds as to what's better, the big names in the sport should be pushing RIDER SKILLS and the way each sled reacts to different riding styles.I feel like the whole "this sled is the best" attitude is what's killing the sport because as you know, majority of people are sheep and they can't think on their own, so they go fishing for info and all they hear is "this sled is the best". I personally still ride a 2018 mountain cat 153, I paid 15,600CAD for it brand new, and there are so many guys where I ride with brand new turbos they paid 30grand for because they are "the best" and aside from climbing straight up a hill, I go everywhere they go, not because my sled is the best, but because I can ride the thing!! Look at GGB mountain cans, anyone with any knowledge knows they are a garbage can, but they advertise great and got a bunch of embassidors to say they are the best and that spread like wild fire and now social media is full of people wondering why their sleds bog lol. Sorry for the rant... it's just my 2 cents. 90% of the people I see riding turbos have no buisness riding one, they only have one because it strokes their egos. It's like everyone is just looking for some sort of assurance or proof to back themselves up as to why their chosen brand is the best.
I use to buy a new sled every year or every two years at most. I started buying new in 95 until the 2010's. The prices just got crazy every year and today they are insane...
I bought Cat too and think they make great sleds.. The entire industry is destroying itself. I have seen it at the dealer level in the early 2000's. They screwed over dealers and closed them without a care..It's sad but I don't see the industry getting better anytime soon.
My dealer in upstate NY use to snocheck 150 new sleds a year and sell another 200 used sleds. Now a dealer near me is lucky to snow check 12 sleds a year and nothing used.
Ya there are certainly problems. Out here at least there are a lot of expensive sleds sold!
The lack of snow in the USA makes it very expensive to be in this sport.
It's just too expensive get into the sport period now. Your looking at 8-12k for a good used sled, and 20k + on a new one
That's why I stick with 2002 mxz 700 I really don't seen the need for new sled. The only only thing I wish I had was EFI.
I agree
Ya if you don't have a decent newer sled to sell every 3-4 years it's alot to get into it
Im sticking with 2002 mxz 700 I was going to get a newer sled but I ended up getting a yamaha raptor 700 I get more use out of it.
Makes sense
For what it's worth, i believe there was a time frame in the recent past that sleds had more beneficial advancements to make them absolutely great. I'd say 2015-2020. They were selling great and quite honestly worth it (like $15000 mark) for a loaded sled. Then turbos and tech entered. In my opinion, it really took a lot away from the sport and priced the average consumer out.
I am thinking/hoping Cat is gonna come outta this ok in the end. Cuz Polaris and Doo dealers are sitting on MOUNTAINS of inventory. Dealers can't give these sleds away right now because they're overpriced... like WAY overpriced
Just bought a new Ski Doo 4 stroke and now have to sell one of my Arctic Cat's. The 2002 ZL550 has given 2 decades of repair free pleasure and it's warm to drive. The 2018 ZR8000 constantly got warranty recall issues ( is at the dealer now; two weeks) and it's cold to drive. Can't wait to get it home to sell it. Never another Cat. Most of my sleds have been Polaris but gave up in 2006 when they started using biodegradable pistons. So it's up to Ski Doo to keep me sledding.
Ski doo makes the best sleds in the industry hands down. Iv owned a few up of them an never had issues.
They all have their problems when buying a new sled but some have more than others for sure.
I owned a 2002 ZL 550 and had a couple of Cougar 550 L/Cs before that. They were only 80 HP engines, but absolutely bulletproof simple piston port engines with dual VM38 carbs. They would run and run with little maintenance.
Polaris was buying pistons and motor parts from Mahle who I think also sells parts to Rotax/Ski Doo from what I know. Maybe this changed?
Today, Textron announced they are pursuing "strategic alternatives" for their powersports business. Generally speaking, "strategic alternatives" in the corporate world 95% of the time means it's for sale.
I newzTV reported today that the Arctic Cat plants in Thief River Falls and St. Cloud will be shut down indefinitely in the middle of 2025 after manufacturing commitments are reached. The employees left will be layed off.
If Polaris was smart they would buy their patents and name and build Arctic Cats in Roseau.
@jasons2054 With BRP selling both the Ski-doo and Lynx brands with a different market focus there is no reason that Polaris couldn't do the same with Arctic Cat. Plus there is plenty of money to be made selling parts and accessories for an already installed customer base.
I bought a new 2024 Catalyst Riot 600 1.75 that my dealer had leftover. I used to buy a new sled every other year or so, but now it's like every 7 or 8 years. The other issue, at least where I live in the Black Hills, SD (baby mountains) they only stock a few crossover sleds, and those sell out right away while dozens and dozens of mountain sleds just sit. It's assumed that everyone has the time and money to travel out west all winter long, but very few do.
I live in the North Dakota red river valley literally the flattest land on planet earth yet when you go to a dealership 90 percent of the sleds are mountain sleds, you have to drive at least 15 hours 1 direction to see a mountain from here
I love to snowmobile but there is just to many (professional snowmobilers ) which we didn’t have 20 yrs ago, now and all the stuff and all the technology and all the inflated prices! Regular Joes like me don’t buy a new sled every yr or even every 2 yrs! I buy one and use it tell it blows up. Can’t afford $16000 every yr sorry! Don’t have a money tree lying around!
Your comment about bare stock truck. I bought a couple in the 90s. I modified it way cheaper than the dealer options. Radio, tires rims etc. Not a bad philosophy
All 3 of these guys know exactly what’s going on. I cant see a good outcome if these prices don’t come down. We have to remember how many bailouts BRP skidoo have been gone through. I don’t even own a skidoo and I’m paying taxes because we got an idiot for a prime minister that gave the bailout.
I think you've got your wires crossed. BRP is separate from Bombardier and hasn't taken any bailouts since the company was split.
@ how old are you???
@@fasterdura1772 47
He is correct,our Crime minister is a total idiot.
What current model snowmobile compares to the 90's snowmobiles like an XLT and then compare the costs. Its not as bad as you think, the problem is we all want the top of the line machines.
Ski doo sport models were a smart idea!!
Most definitely!
I spoke with the Track 2 Trail dealership owner in Sioux Falls, SD and he claimed powersports in general have just been selling extremely poor. The only new items people can afford is the ones with little to no extra options. I blame the government for printing all that money and handing out to everyone during covid. Created all this big boom in the economy and now its all a thing of the past.
I find that hard to believe that Yamaha was funding it all. Arctic cat is owned by textron and they are as big if not bigger than Yamaha. I don’t think textron wants Yamaha. They didn’t seam to exited about it when they purchased Arctic cat.
I rode for 30 years got tired of playing the no snow game got tired of having to spend 1200 to ride per weekend going north aint cheap i am southern Minnesota most years are barley ridable here. Sold my last sled 2 winters ago was thinking about getting back in but from what i see looks like another bunk year again overall. Got a friend who works at a Polaris dealer in Minneapolis they are not doing well atm
Hate to hear that, but understand with the no snow and prices! these winters have definitely been brutal and sucks the Midwest has been struggling to get snow. Hoping they get some this winter for the sake of people like your friend in the industry.
i was gonna ask a question but it was to long for instagram lol, but i found a way to revise it to be shorter lol. would you rather, 30k stocker, or 15k sled with 15k in mods
Good question we will answer that in the next one! Thank you
@@brentcook24 cause in my mind its simple. if you dont care about warranty you can get a matryx rmk, do anything rail related, do a turbo, probably any set of shocks you want, probably pay someone if the sled you found wasnt the right lenght, handlebars and probably more. vs warranty if something breaks
Ski-doo makes a snowmobile for absolutely every niche of the market! And this makes it very difficult to for Arctic Cat and even Polaris to maintain a profitable market share. I bought an Expedition Extreme 850 a couple of years ago and when I crossed shopped other the other brands I was truly stunned about how much more selection Skidoo has in their line up.
Skidoo definitely does a great job at covering the entire market!
Russia was one of the biggest buyers of Yamaha snowmobiles, Arctic Cat built Yamaha, since Bidenomics put sanctions on Russia and they can’t buy them I think that just put to much pressure on an already fragile market especially since the 23 flop of no snow, I’m from North Dakota and went to college in thief river falls drove buy the plant every day, you would think since the manufacturer is less than an hour away there would be Arctic cat dealers on every corner, Fargo cat went out of business last year , the grand forks cat dealer left years ago , one car sales place sells cat now obviously that was a bad idea to do now , I think its going to be a little scary yet but if Trump lifts the sanctions on Russia the world’s economy will get better
Great information thank you! Yes let’s hope things turn around!!!
The market is Minnesota,Wisconsin and Michigan. If there's no snow there all going under folks. This has nothing to do with a cheaper sled because thay already have that. But the market is muscle sleds. I bought a renegade adrenaline 850 base for $13.500 new. That's pretty cheap. Sold it that year for 13k because no snow.
I live in Wiscosin and right now the state is getting hit but rain next week,hope atleast up north gets pounded,last year sucked and not looking good now
If the trails in Wisconsin dont open up in the north this xmas its over for polaris too
You can't force people to be financially responsible. Just like the auto industry - some of the first vehicles to roll of the line are the top-of-the-line models. And they sell. Nobody is FORCING you to buy a boost or a turbo R.
If they all made cheap stuff that’s fun. Not capable, not powerful, just fun. Like a kids sled upgraded to handle an adult. That’s fun trying to stay on it and trying to climb small things in the yard. But these new sleds are so capable it’s almost impossible to have a challenge without going to a mountain. Like keep the big sleds for the guys that can go to the mountains every week end and are looking to climb everything but add like a sled the size of an old Elan and put in a 600 in it. Or even bring back triples
The problem started along time ago when idiots pay $ 1000s of dollars for a penny or a sports ball card worth a nickel
Don’t forget the Canadian 🇨🇦market. These sleds are about 30% more expensive up here plus all the taxes. Sleds are way over priced . It’s a rich person sport now.too much tech has killed the sport I’m an old guy . They have gone from off road tractor to now they are lik3 a corvette
I unfortunately think this is the end of Artic Cat
100% just bought a 24 Switchback 850 146 ..saved 6k over a 2025
What kind of terrain do you ride. I want to throw a leg over the switchback but feel like I need a 155
Why would you buy a Polaris there just like a condom one time use Ha ha ha ha ha ha
@RogerThat94 My cabin is in curtis in the U.P...50/50 amazing on trail. Haven't played alot off yet but just playing in the 4 foot of powder we had over Thanksgiving it didn't struggle very playful front end pulls up with ease over my old 19 assault 144 800 ...so far this is a huge upgrade
Corporations jacked pricing up in every aspect of the markets during the pandemic,and they never really came down,only up.Heavy equipment,sxs,Atv's all overpriced.Buying used is the way to go.
why aren't the manufacturers focusing on the entry level? it only makes sense to target new riders with affordable entry level machines instead of pushing 20k plus machines in every ad you see.I paid less for my new leftover '24 sled than I did for my '23 atv. I will never upgrade to a 20k plus machine.how much farther can r and d go to improve a machine for a weekend rider ? keep them affordable and let aftermarket develop the rest.
Just like vehicles, prices are too high.
Let's put it this way in the side by side industry , I'm starting to see alot more CF motos out there cause they're cheap 🤷♂️🤔
To much for throw away sleds was sold as family sport thats how it started its gone now
My mom bought my dad a brand new 440 everest in 1979 for under 900$ thats equivalent to $3500 in todays money. Its no different than trucks and everything. The cost of new stuff has skytocketed way fast than inflation. Grmated theyre far more capable so there is more value, but i know guys that were dumping 30+k into mod sleds in the 90's as well and todays factory sleds would destroy those machines. As far as entry level sleds, imo thats the used market. Why woukd you go buy an expensive new entry level sled for 15+k when you can buy a top of the line, low mile sled thats 2 or three years old for the same or less
Everything is crazy right now. Ya the used market can make more sense, I agree.
I bought my 2017 xlt f350 with a sticker price of 68,000 and 10 grand off in 2018
Looking for a suv for the wife , new ranger lariat is 63,000 sticker price, you cant convince me to buy any ranger for the price of a 1 ton diesel. Insane prices for everything these days.
Ya cat built Yamahas and im sure that helped out cat building new sleds. But thats not whats been pulling cat along more like cat was carrying yamaha along.
Cats had the best 4 stroke snowmobiles for many years now. The Yamaha motor been great for cat but the Suzuki 1100 turbo that was introduced in 2009 with 180 HP charging the industry forever. I raced cat here in the NE since 2024-2017. SX and pro XC many wins and championships in my cats. Cat dominated XC for 2 decades now polaris just came to the party last couple years. I wouldn’t say Cat was or way behind doo or Polaris. In the midwest the only sled that 4:36 could win a XC race was a cat except the past few years. Cats engines have the best track record in the industry for HP and reliability. Its a fact look at all cats engines since 1990 i cant think of one plagued with problems. I can think of many from cat and doo though. Same goes for updates and shit Polaris always has a bunch doo has there share to. Not saying cat doesn’t haven’t bought new since 2017 my last racer. Iv been riding since i was 5 im now 45. Mechanic engine builder was a pro snowmobile racer. Love my cats been tough as nails for me iv broke very little parts. My father has new doos and 2024 catalysts. I ride his doos great sleds really enjoy riding them. But cant say there better than cats some ways they are some ways there not. Really dont think the catalyst is that much better than the pro cross trail riding anyway off trail probably lot better but idk. The seat is a way to hard on the new catalyst for long days in the saddle. The suspension valved to stiff feels like my XC race sled and thats way to stiff for average trail riders.
Cat has made the fastest snowmobile forever now since the 650 wildcat anyway lol!!
Lots of cats here in nw wi. but the last 5 years trail's have only been open a had full of times. And when you ad the price of a new sled it's out of the question!
sooooooooo today artic cat pulled the plug.
When is the last time you can buy a sled with no recalls, or very little. Manufacturers need to spend more time fine tuning the sleds instead of rushing them out or trying to the best out there. Would sell more of a reliable sled instead of the next best option that recalls in a month.
They are all completely out pricing the majority of the market share. You are always going to have your hardcore riders that want the best machine with all the bells and whistles. The barrier to entry is just to high. Need a machine that sells for between 6-8K.
I'll just keep driving my 08 Yamaha Nytro that I paid $3400 for 5 years ago.
Same with the car industry. Especially with dodge. They have lots of 2024 stuff sitting on the lot with 2025s rolling in. They pay money to have the car sit on their lot. The longer a car sits the more they pay for the car to sit. Prices need to drop
The entire industry has been on an unsustainable trajectory for the better part of a decade now.
With Kids nowadays always on their phone or games , they got no interest.
And sleds so high priced , its very sad . As for Arctic Cat , Textron is ruining the Cat name .
Like Cat or not we need all the manufacturers in the business .
It sure didnt help no snow in Minnesota last year .
Have you heard anything about John deer getting involved with cat
Bottom like...the sleds cost too much for 2 months of use.
Running out of 70 yro wanting to spend 150k on a sled and 4x4.
doing my part, up grade what you can afford
Did you guys somehow miss Muskoka's day 1 on his 25' Expert? He went out with 9 Polaris riders and basically just sat and filmed. I mean yea he was riding with Keith Curtis who - in my opinion is the best rider out there - but what was the common denominator? Polaris. Show me a BRP rider doing that shit. I'll wait...
Guaranteed that most, if not all those guys did not pay for those sleds.
@@GruesomeGary And? Point is that they could ride for either company they choose to, but they chose Polaris.
I cant imagine buying a sled,only if it was part of me surviving or hunting with it.
The shocking thing to me is many want Arctic Cat to fail. I don't understand why people want a brand to fail. Going down to a duopoly doesn't help snowmobiling. Prices will go up and innovation will stop. BRP is going to get killed with Trump's 25% tarrifs. However, the Canadian government will always bail them out. Polaris is in tough shape too. In fact, they might be worse off than Arctic because they don't have a huge conglomerate like Textron backing them. I bought a new Catalyst Riot 600 and it's an excellent crossover.
Ya I don't understand why anyone would want a company to fail it is a ripple effect that is not good.
@brentcook24 Absolutely. I hope Arctic Cat can continue to get 4 stroke engines from Yamaha because that is definitely an advantage for them in the trail market. Those 998 turbos are still fast AF! Too much for me! Arctic Cat really needs a dual rail mountain sled, too. I don't think they should get rid of the monorail Alpha because it definitely has a market, but so many people say it's terrible to ride. Not sure because I just trail and boondock on a crossover 146.
Yea the market is done. They do t offer what i want or anything close in value. I don't want any tech on it at all. Your phone can handle everything that useless dash will ever tell you. No incentive to provide something reliable in the market. Good luck
Great lakes look like they are getting early snow
Yamaha has gone the cheaper route with their 2 stroke dirtbikes. They are an old but proven design. No bells and whistles but it's a good Ole 2 stroke and you know what you are getting. Well, KTM just went bankrupt and they are the one pushing the limits and they sell way more new bikes. Maybe you are onto something
It is an interesting argument because there are pros and cons of going each direction!
With any new model there will be issues
I remember when riding a horse didnt cost any money for gas...
Times have changed!
Inflation is a big factor! Just go food shopping, or go buy a new pickup. Government policies have sucked our spending money right out of us.
700.00 for my Bombardier,,1969 olympia 👍🏁
Basically all the toys are too expensive. And the overlooked number of choices of toy. Snowmobiles no longer compete against just motorcycles and the odd ATV anymore.
After last winter, the industry has got to be hurting.
Why'd you change the channel name? "BC" threw me off. Everybody I know pronounces it "Ar-Tic Cat" ... simpler than trying to sound the C in Arctic and doesn't sound stupid like "Ark-Ti-Cat" the way some say it. I started with a 2003 Doo "Rev" and HATED it. Went to the new M7 the next year and have been a Cat guy ever since. Got a Khaos last year because the Cat lost the plot for ProClimb and Ascender with all the extra weight, so they weren't an option. And I couldn't find a nice used M8. Picked up the Catalyst and am struggling with it, but that's not the sled's fault... it's my out of shape-ness and lack of skill. It'll be fun when I figure things out. My Catalyst was $21k on Snow Check. It's the blue one and also got electric start. Then added $1500 in accessories. My butt is still sore.
Feels like what happened with boats where the average joe got priced out
😂😂😂 pricing ....out out this world 😢
All the sled co's knew an industry cliff fall was coming & projected 10 years,that was 13 years ago. The royalties the brands pay each other,the snowbike spike & quick fall & many didn't go back to sleds,the lowering of testosterone across the nation,the"blue screen" media addiction,new sleds piled up waiting for warranty repairs,low snow,to expensive to keep the nxt generation involved,single helicopter mother's feminizing boys ha,dealers not wanting trade ins ugh & more economy reasons. And yes we do not need a screen on our power toys.
The catalyst is the best mountain chassis on the market. Don’t regret that purchase at all. Even got my buddy off a Doo turbo to buy one and he wouldn’t go back.
Will be once the get rid of that single rail its complete trash ive seen so maby bent pound out tracks ladt a year all tge bracing breaks but hey its a personal choice i seen tons of alphas for parts 2 3 year old mountain sleds
@ love mine, I’ve bent plenty of dual rail skids too lol.
Yup, twin rails never break. Thats why nobody makes braces or aftermarket rails for them.
15k -20k and then drive for 2yrs and try to sell for 10k good luck!
Two things are currently killing the industry in my opinion and observation I could be wrong.
1. Spring Check Buyers - I get the idea behind it and I understand they are buyers but when you have guys/gals that buy a new sled every year regardless of the current condition of their current sled it allows the manufacturers to see production and to raise the price points by large percentages every year because they can bank on most of their sales being done before they even release the colors of the sled. These people also in order to afford the new one turn around and try to sell their moded out used sled for more than a new one. You mod out a 155 9r your going to be in a sled 25-30k This will also lead to people backing out of spring orders and flooding the market with previously thought sold sleds when they can't sell. The new consumer needs the used consumer to be able to afford a sled and without it the market becomes a stalemate. Sled and UTV owners are the one consumer that wholistically doesn't understand depreciation and market value. Example: There is a guy in Anchorage who has a used 21 freeride that been trying to sell for the last 3 years that still wants 16k. Who is going to buy that when you can spend 2k more and get a new one that the dealer has left over from 23 or 24.
2. Manufacturers- Simply put its just too much money, 20-23k for a new sled and 200 for a spare belt like a previous commenter had. A new sled in 2019 was around 15k on the high end. That's a 46 percent increase in 5 years and where does it stop. Do we really think we should be paying 30k for a new sled in a few years and 300 dollars for belts. With Artic Cat they have always been firmly in 3rd or 4th on the tree of desirable products and with the lack reliability its not surprising to see the news. Haven't seen a single 858 video where the sled doesn't bog or break. Now with a recall for detuning. Not good.
Pricing themselves out of an industry
AK rides alot of cats
Bullshit ! Maybe back in the day all i see is doos and poos
I'm done watching this podcast
Thanks anthony
The 600 catalyst proved it's a weapon watch and see
We are talking 858 when it comes to being proven
@brentcook24 858 will be a weapon
Artic cat is closing
Bidenomics
you guys know nothing....sleds are paid for when they hit the dealer....Cat is all done
Thanks man, point is they are still having money problems even with their new product out...