In today's episode of Debate a Vegan we're at UC Davis. James' girlfriend, who is vegan, asked him to join me at the table to debate whether or not veganism is a moral obligation. Let me know how you think the conversation with James went! 🌱 Become a monthly or one-off supporter of my work at universities (thank you so much!): earthlinged.org/support 📚 My debut book This is Vegan Propaganda (& Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) is out now! Order your copy here: earthlinged.org/orderbook 🎤 Organise a speech or presentation at your company/education establishment: earthlinged.org/contact
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Hey Ed, it's me, James! I really enjoyed our conversation and honestly didn't think you would post it, so it was a fun surprise seeing it this morning. At this point in time, I don't eat meat, dairy, or non pasture raised eggs anymore, and it's partially because kind and fair people like you introduced me to the issue in a clear, uncharged way. I think that a lot of people, when they have to think about the moral justifications in their lives, either try to build their values around their actions or feel that they cannot mend the rift between the two. I was the latter, and felt like it was impossible for me to care enough to live by unhypocritical moral standards. I think a lot of people feel the same way, that doing something good means exerting emotional energy to care a lot. And with this belief, it becomes easier to accept yourself as a bad person, because you don't believe you can care. But you don't need to feel guilt and pain and watch videos of baby chickens dying and cows having their throats slit to do something moral. You're allowed to just live in a way you decide is right because you reach that conclusion through deliberate thought. It's at least something that helps me do things I don't think I have enough compassion for, and might help someone else too. I'm looking forward to seeing more of you, thanks again Ed.
This is so awesome. In the video, I shared a lot of your exact same thoughts right before I made the jump and went fully vegan. I'm really happy you made the change
I'm a very recent vegan as well. I've been eating vegan exclusively for about a week now and was vegetarian for a year or so before. Those same thoughts that you were expressing were my reasons for being vegetarian - I knew that the industry was bad, but I was just spooked to make the change I think. Be sure to look into some good resources for maintaining vegan habits. Morally, I don't think you'll return to using animal products, but cravings might become very real for the both of us. One way to combat that, I've read, is to make sure you are eating enough fats as well as protein. Animal protein is usually accompanied with about the same amount of fat and it's the fat that we end up craving, I'm told. Good luck, very happy to see this comment and the talk!
I find this to be the most common response when I interview people. 1) I don't want animals to be abused. 2) I realize I'm paying for them to be abused. 3) It's a horrible industry 4) .......BUT....I'm not sure that I'm going to change.
I find this too! What is that?!? Fear of change or of the unknown? Fear of changing one's habits? Of suddenly being different? I just don't get it. And some of my family members are like this!!!
@@vegancolleen Definitely status quo bias and I think the misapprehension that going vegan is much harder than it actually is. Although for some people I imagine their social circle can be pretty hostile to the change.
I think when you've gotten the acknowledgement, it's actually easy for people to change. Not going full vegan, but to go more plant-based (and this is hugely important, and it IS real progress). The last things you need to ask is: what can you do to reduce the contribution to this horrible industry? Let them start to think of reasons on their own, and they'll be more inclined to do it, and they'll think about the issue more often. Having 10 people reduce their animal product consumption by 50% is better than convincing one person to go full vegan IMO. (Ok, there are nuances to this, but as a rule of thumb, I think it's better)
It takes a lot of courage and maturity to admit your faults and even say “I don’t know.” This man is obviously open to conversation and is perceptive. I feel this conversation will stay with him and influence his future choices. I have a lot of respect for his responses. He’s well on his way to veganism.
He only said "I don't know" when the answer was clear but went against his actions. "Is it okay to kill an animal because they are less intelligent when it's unnecessary?" "I really don't know" How courageous and mature... Or just not wanting to admit that it's wrong
@@brixan... We are all learning and makings changes at our own pace. I find it admirable when someone doesn’t feel like they have to have all the answers and be right. He was humble enough to be honest.
@@brixan... you brought it on the point. when you understand body language it becomes obvious that he was just avoiding answering the question honestly to preserve the 'positive image', the 'positive looking mask' he's projecting to the outside. after all for most humans life is nothing but a popularity contest. a game. everything is allowed. and worth apparently is only dependend on what the hivemind thinks of one. oh and edit: especially because it's also very suspicious how aware he was of the alien comparison - it seems obvious to me that this is by far not the first convo with an activist he had. it just seems like he is opportunistically taking the experience to avoid presenting his true self. just like the majority of the hivemind. so all can just keep status quo with all of their might while simultaniously complain about status quo.
James just needs time to think about all this, this is the first step on his journey to becoming a vegan. I think James is a thoughtful kind person, and that he will become vegan. Edit to minutes later...James posted that he is now vegan and appreciates the conversation because that is what helped him to get there !
An honest lad but a lad who certainly hasn't watched a baby cow stolen and killed, baby male chicks ground up alive, the faces of animals waiting outside a slaughterhouse, ect.
I've never seen any of that because I've specifically avoided it due to being squeamish. I'm still vegan. I think this guy is on his way. Seeing those traumatic things might speed it along but I don't think his destination is different.
@@austin7761 I can actually relate to this, because I actually haven’t watched any slaughterhouse footage until after I went vegan. For me, I needed rational argumentation to convince me to go vegan, not appeals to emotion.
@@johnchesterfield9726 i used to get INTJ too :D then when i worked on my emotional intelligence i now get INFJ MBTI results are screenshots in time anyway, but it's nice to know where people are in a given time
If a year ago, someone told me I'm about to stop eating meat for the rest of my life, I'd probably have a panic attack. If you told me back then I'll be calling myself vegan I'd probably cringe and tell you "nope lol". I remember buying hand lotion back in the day and I have put it back on the shelf, just because it had vegan sign on it. I wasn't some vegan hater but for some reason I didn't want to have anything to do with veganism. It's sad to see people dismiss veganism "just because" but I understand the process. I was that person, but now I can't imagine living any other way.
I have the same story pretty much - vegan for just over a year and I went straight from eating meat / dairy very regularly (thought I needed to as I lift weights) to being vegan pretty much overnight. I used to actually avoid something like a brownie I fancied if it said vegan next to it. What the hell was my issue? I recognise myself in people I speak to now but I also understand that I just didn't get it before, and not everyone is convinced by the same argument. I researched by myself, watched documentaries and TH-camrs but definitely helped that I did it with my girlfriend - the worst part is feeling lonely with it.
i was kinda the same, although back then i had never even heard about veganism (since it wasn't that wide-spread) but i had some vegetarian classmates and when they said they are vegetarian because of animals i looked at them like i don't want anything to do with them :D fast-forward and i became vegan for the animals
@@tinaeden8317 At the time I have been watching Alex O'Connor (cosmic skeptic), I was impressed with his takes on philosophy and religion. Then I discovered his video "meat eater's case for veganism", so I watched it. There was nothing I disagreed with. For the first time in my life I realised that 7 billion people might be wrong about something. Then I discovered Earthling Ed and documentaries like Dominion or Land of Hope and Glory. Reading Animal Liberation and watching those documentaries left me disgusted with the world. At that point there was no way not to become vegan. It wasn't something I planned or agreed to, one day I just realised I'm vegan. What worked on me: - discovering veganism on my own, from someone I respected, not feeling pushed into anything - dominion - watching "life on our planet" on netflix. If someone won't agree to watch those violent docs like "Dominion", Life on our planet can actually make a difference. It brings a new perspective on animals, makes you realise how detached we are from nature, how ignorant it is to think that humans have more rights to be on this planet than any other being. It's also just stunning to watch - Realising absurdities of animal agriculture highlighted in Cowspiracy and Seaspiracy. It's way easier to see how our laws are dependent on apetite for meat and cheese rather than having habitable planet. Basically realising how silly we are as a species. - Gary Yourofsky speech
This guy is so much like me before I went vegan, recognising the reality of the situation, agreeing with everything in principle but just not doing it. The day I realised I didn't need to keep eating meat just because I'd always done it and it was convenient and easy and everyone else was doing it was the day I changed for the better. I hope he makes the change as well.
I thought exactly like this dude a year ago or so, justified eating chicken since it was healthier/more ethical than eating cows and pigs too. So glad I met my vegan girlfriend, she really inspired me a lot to Make the transition. Happy to say I’ve been fully vegan since the start of 2022!
Love can change to world! So glad your girlfriend managed to influence you, mine is a bit slower- but I do cook for her and she enjoys it, deems it healthier.
I think this conversation shows, that sometimes it is necessary to gain your own experience to fully understand the circumstances of animal exploitation. I was vegetarian for a long time and was convinced, that i was doing enough to avoid harm. Than we decided to get backyard chickens because we did not want to support the egg industry anymore. After a few months we became vegan because we realised that it was impossible to have eggs and not do any harm to the chickens in the long run. Chickens only lay eggs for a few years, maybe five or six, but they can live up to 15 years. First i thought no problem, we can hatch our own chicks so we'll have always some fresh hens. And this worked suprisingly fine except the half were roosters. Although we live on a farm and have plenty of space it was not possible to keep all of the roosters and it was quite difficult to find a decent new home for them. So what i'm saying is, if you want eggs you'll find yourself sooner or later killing the supernumerary roosters. This turns out to be a tragedy because what you experienced by having your own animals, is that every one of them is an individual. Chickens are very social and really fascinating creatures and you shouldn't underestimate them.
It is quite unlikely that the chickens would live that long (especially with rescued chickens) so it is possible to just not allow them to mate. If buying chickens from a shop it's paying for the killing of a male. Keeping chickens for that long is using a fair amount of grain so it's an environmental expense.
@@danthelambboy I don‘t get your point. Are you suggesting just to have backyard chickens without any rooster (do not allow them to mate) and only take rescued hens. But this dosen‘t solve the problem that in some time you‘ll end up with lots of hens that don‘t lay anymore eggs, even if they won‘t live that long. Rescued hens have even a much shorter period of laying eggs because they were bred to lay as many eggs as possible in their first years. Then you are suggesting to kill them if they stop being profitable because its an environmental expense? How does this help if you don‘t want to harm them? Not a solution in my eyes. On the contrary, this verified there is no ethic way of having eggs in the long run.
I remember when I became a vegan, I said EXACTLY what Ed said at the end, that I felt such a disconnect between my actions and my beliefs. My partner turned to me and said “well why don’t you stop then?” I quit meat that day, quit eggs and dairy about a month later, and am continuing my journey every day to better align my actions with my beliefs. It’s so much harder, soooo much harder, but I think it’s worth it. If I died today I wouldn’t have the same regrets on my shoulders, I feel lighter and more aligned with my values.
I really enjoy watching the debates where the other person is responsive like this and is willing to admit when they’re wrong. I’m working on becoming vegan at the moment. It’s difficult because I live with my parents and don’t buy the groceries, but I’m doing the best I can because of what you’ve shown me.
I was in the same situation as you! I only ate animal products at home when my parents cooked them. but whenever I bought anything for myself outside/with friends/at school, I chose the vegan option. :)
You should research reasons why you shouldn't be a vegan too. Unless you know both sides of the arguments, you really can't make an informed opinion. Even watching explicit anti-vegan video's would give you another perspective.
@@subverted6555 I think it’s funny that you assume I haven’t or that I don’t know the many arguments people make against it. I think I can handle the decision but thank you
I used to do vegan activism a few years ago. I wish I had your potential for arguing back then. Fortunately I found your channel and fell in love with it, it's really inspiring and makes me wanna do some activism again, you're very patient while discussing with people who notoriously has a way different point of view than yours, and that's fully respectable. Thanks for being a light in a world that's dominated by the lack of empathy. Cheers from Chile!
He would choose plant-based over an animal, but would choose an animal if he was stuck in the woods hunting berries. So why is he eating animals? He ain't in the woods.
Always so impressed with your way of breaking down an argument and then build it back up, bringing the person along with all parts until the full argument is made and understood by the other person. Hats of to you Ed!
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ lol why because prolonging his life by several more years is so terrible right? btw no one can "force" anyone to be vegan. if vegans could do that, everyone would be a vegan by now.
I took my meat-eating brother to see Earthlings years ago. He was way more emotionally affected by it than me (because it was new to him, not to me). I remember him crying his eyes out outside the screening telling me he now understood my lifestyle choice, but that he could never change his diet. It was a puzzling moment for me. I really appreciate these conversations and all that y’all are doing. Thanks!
Dear Ed, I just wanted to say that I follow your content for a while now and I just want to say: thank you. You are so incredibly inspiring and you do so much for the vegan movement and in konsequence for the animals. I admire and love your work
This honestly reminds me of the debate i had with my sister when she essentially convinced me to go vegan. Took a few more months and some vegan fast food before I actually did it though.
You are my hero, Ed. Don't stop doing what you do. The funny thing about awareness is it can't be undone. I've been a vegetarian for thirty-five years and vegan for the past two years. All any of us can do at this point, given the predicament our planet is in, is not participate in the exploitation of anyone or anything. Exploitation, in any form, is evil. When it comes time for me to kick the bucket, I want to do so knowing I at least tried to do better to make the world a better place. That's what you're doing, Ed. You're making the world a better place, one conversation at a time. Good for you.
What Ed said about chickens actually happened to me. I started out with a few hens as pets. People wanted eggs from us so I got more hens and ducks. It wasn’t long before health problems started showing up and I quickly was unable to keep them all healthy. Having a few hens was great though. They are fun to have around.
@@samvandervelden8243 where do your backyard chickens come from, if your not buying them when they are chicks themselves, which is unlikely (and kills millions of roosters). You "rescue" animals out of disgusting practices. Lets just say that you get your backyard chickens from such a institution, then you inadvertently kill a lot by participating in the first place. Moreover these breed animals shouldnt even exist to begin with. Chickens have layed about 15 eggs a year before we manipulated them for our needs and for many of these pitiful existences life is pain from start to finish. I may not be as eloquent es Ed is in his video on exaclty that topic so i suggest you go watch that, for a much better explanation.
Here to share my thoughts for no reason at all but I just love Ed for doing all these debates in such a friendly way and I strive to be like him. My temper would probably skyrocket if I had to talk to some of the people he talks to (not this guy ofc). I've been vegan for almost a year as a 15-year-old in my meat and dairy eating family. People are always questioning me and I don't personally know any other vegans so it gets lonely. I'm proud of myself is all I can say. Having Ed's videos to binge watch for the last 2 months has really gotten me to build a good argument for myself and even be able to defend my veganism bc of course the world can't just accept it. Thank you so much for educating people Ed
Don't use the word convert, makes us sound like cultists. It's the meat eaters who are brainwashed. Veganism is just being logical and aligning your existing beliefs.
@@pacmanmcgavin7034 says an herbivorous individual who get's literally clogged arteries with every molecule of animal protein or dietary cholesterol they consume. the cognitive dissonance, conditioned superiority complex and willful ignorance is strong in this one. but then again - can't help anybody who is too stubborn and narrow minded enough to realize that they need help. many carnists after all only believe what they want to believe. self-deception is the easiest thing for those herd animals.
This right here: Antibiotic use in the animal farming industry is peak human arrogance. We are using this incredibly important medicine. Something we rely on for survival to eliminate deaths from truly preventable illnesses. We are squandering the miracle of modern medicine by keeping an animal alive just long enough so they can get to slaughter weight. ~ Earthling Ed
The convinience of not having to scrub your pans like crazy because of all the fat is a really big bonus. It's one of the perks of a plant based livestyle!
Idk man my pans get pretty filthy from plant oil. And sadly, even our veggies and stuff can have those same bacteria - because they use animal shit as fertilizer. But yeah, tasting dough without fear is great.
Chickens do need their eggs and it's still stressful for them to lose their eggs. When they lose them they have to make more and it hurts their body to make a lot. Chickens used to not lay many eggs at all, we've bred them into laying more than they naturally would. They also sometimes eat their eggs and get vital nutrients from that. So I believe it's still immoral to have backyard chickens and steal their eggs. I think they would have to be treated like how other domesticated pets are treated and not use anything from them as a product and just love them and take care of them ❤️
He's going to grow from this conversation. Knowledge is power. One thing I wish we could connect more with is the question of intelligence and where compassion comes into play. We're all just working through justifications we didn't have to articulate before because we never really had to. Good job, E. Loving your book.
I appreciate his openness. His mention of vastly more intelligent aliens farming humans is SPOT-ON and rarely something a Carnist will rarely come up with on their own. Kudos to him for thinking deeper about these ethical matters more than most people do.
Really? I thought that was a common thing for people to think about and talk about even if they eat meat. Even as young kids. Not just about eating animals, but any weird human interaction with an animal you’d imagine yourself as the animal a giant superintelligent alien as the human.
I think James is "that close" to becoming vegan. Good to know that so many associated issues (health, abx resistance, climate, etc.) are also becoming well understood.
interesting that most people bring up ants as being lower on the intelligence level while ants are able to build complex structures, whereas most humans aren't able to, and most of the time can't build even a simple structure
@@liammarshall-butler3384 ok, but even if people collaborated with each other to build something, still most people wouldn't be able to build much since most people don't have to bother to learn that, most people just hire pros to do it for them yet ants are natural in it, or at the very least every ant is expected to gain experience in building structures the point is, that people who justify eating animals by using intelligence, using space ships or symphonies as proof of our intelligence, they're using intelligence of handful of people and pretending it's their own or that it's the intelligence of the whole humankind
Dude you look healthy as fuck. I just had a Beyond Patty melt and some buffalo cauliflower chicken wings. Some of us do it for our health, Some do it for the animals Some do it for the planet Some of us do it for all of the above! However you vegan, it’s valid ✅
I appreciate this guys honesty. Most people retroactively form their morals based on their existing actions to avoid a sense of wrongdoing, he does not
What a great interview. I wish more people could have an intellectual conversation like James can. He even repeatedly says "I don't know." It's so rare to hear that anymore.
Thanks Ed for your Epic debate skills! It’s the MOST Convenient time to be Vegan. Seriously! In 1990’s a vegi burger was a specialty item you could only get in health food stores. It’s easier than ever to be Vegan. It only took one slaughter house video for me to change for life! (Thanks PETA) If you truly Love Animals, there is No other option than to be Vegan.
He was very respectful and I am sure Ed opened up his ideologies about veganism and meat consumption. Conversation about differences or something you do not understand is something we miss the mark on a lot in society anymore.
I worked in this industry and suffer with flashbacks. When you work in investigations you see things 99% of the public never will. The way we treat animals all for something as trivial as taste pleasure!? Monsters puts it lightly..
It just kills me how people will agree that supporting animal exploitation is morally reprehensible and then use pretzel logic as a justification for why it's ok for them to do that very thing!
it's really refreshing to hear someone being so honest (with Ed and themselves)! I think a lot of people are okay with eating eat because they are removed from the process, because it's more convenient, because it's what they've always done and they live in a society that largely condones it, and because they just chose not to think about it too hard, but it was super refreshing to hear someone actually willing to admit that and to listen to Ed and do some real introspection
He seemed very nice :) I sadly only get people who yell at me and say I'm stupid, then quit the conversation when they see they can't dabate my points :/ Glad this person is very open and I love you both talking respectfully and nice.
What a cool intelligent guy! Very well spoken. Tough interview because he thought quickly and smart enough to understand what was logical. Great job as always Ed!
you are so intelligent and well spoken! im impressed yet again, and not to mention what a respectful and mature conversation by each member! i love seeing the comment from james as well!!! so happy to be able to see the impact of your conversations like that
Should be a guide in debate and discussion.Earthling Ed is brilliant! When he leads the conversation (rarely) he brilliantly guides people to draw their own conclusions!
21:00 - 21:56 Absolutely loved that part. I really appreciate that you can recognize the widely varying degrees of harm and aren't so dogmatic about animal exploitation being wrong on the same level in any circumstance. Great point you brought about how a basically harm free system could go back to what we have today, I never thought about this.
In response to that girlfriend's boyfriend's thought on "if you're the smartest, you should take advantage" I would think that if you're smart you're at the point where you are motivated to make the world a better place for all sentient beings. This means that you have evolved into a better being that puts feelings of others before your taste buds.
There's a saying that "Intelligence is the ability to decide what's important and doing it." How many humans can actually prove their intelligence in this way, including this man? In contrast, the animals prove their intelligence in everything they do to survive and be happy. I greatly challenge the theory that it's the human species who are the most intelligent. It's simply arrogance not based on facts.
People who say "it's ok when it's your cow and you basically treat it like a pet" have no idea how one gets milk and that the cow first needs to be pregnant just like a human, a cat, a dog etc. and then you need to take their babies away so they don't eat all the milk. Why don't we drink dog or cat milk then?
@@chuckybang cows don't produce much milk at first, until we selectively breed and engineered them to be. We could breed specific types of dogs/cats that produce shit ton of milk if we want to. But I don't think the general public would accept that
Cognitive dissonance the massive puzzle piece for any non vegan. However, relative to the bulk of the population, the dissonnance wasn't strong at all with him. I very much disagree with your statement and that's unfair for James to say that. He was very honest with his situation and Ed summed it up very well at the end, you can rewatch from 22:12.
@@cedb3360 No cognitive dissonance whatsoever. We're omnivores eating a species specific diet. Vegans are the weirdos trying to stuff a round peg in a square hole. The vast majority of vegans go back to eating meat for this very reason. It's not present day humans fault that our ancestors ate animals for millions of years, leaving us with digestive tracts designed to get the majority of our nutrition and calories from animal sources, any more than it is a grizzly bears fault for fishing salmon out of a river.
He posted a comment. He's given up meat, dairy, and eggs not produced in xyz manner (I can't remember.) He was clearly open to the idea of veganism, and he seems to be on his way.
I really liked that this guy points out that the word "humane" simply means not actively causing harm... that is how our society interprets this word at least- so by labeling something "humane" simply means it was done in a way to not deliberately cause undue harm and suffering- the lowest moral bar as he says. Thank you to this guy for pointing it out!
If we were naturally meat-eating animals that bloke wouldn't be 'grossed out' by the sight of a pig being slaughtered and slaughterhouse workers wouldn't be upset by their work. They would love it. They would look forward to going to work. That these people react in such ways is proof that we evolved to eat plants.
If we were herbivores we wouldn't try making greens taste better. It would simply be the best tasting food to us, BUT it's not. No wonder, children hate veggies, we are meant to eat meat. And please check out how dangerous harvesting cashews is. You people need to know where your food comes from and stop focusing on where meat comes from. Y'all lack info
There are tons of jobs that are morally okay, and actually do a lot of good, but the workers hate going to work--but they have to for their survival. I once heard dentists have high suicide rates.
I don’t think so. People from western civilisations are more shocked by animal slaughter because they don’t see it as often. People in more rural developing nations are less shocked by such things. People adapt to whatever their society is like.
@@melittavigh5343 I'm pretty sure you use herbs on your steak and don't just have it raw. Lol and have you ever tasted fruits before? You're going to tell me that needs seasoning? Veggies on their own is good too, wtf. Like yeah we cook veggies with spices but we also cook lentils, chickpeas ect so what's the point in "needing meat" lol. That's just protein you could get from said chickpeas. Y'all meat eaters need to learn how to eat AND research... you obviously don't know where your meat comes from with all the contamination and feces ridden antibiotic pumped food you consume.
Aside from the moral aspect, to eat meat for "health reasons" 15:56 is also debatable. 18:31 eggs are also very harmful, especially for those with heart disease.
Let's just give all animals the benefit of the doubt and just assume they're intelligent and just let them be and live their lives. I don't understand the constant need of people to have to categorise animals by percieved intelligence.
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ you’re going to need to elaborate. But also, regardless, if humans are so intelligent, we can come up with new and creative, non-harming ways to advance technology and medicine.
@@basbleupeaunoire No, i simply didn't think about it when i still ate meat tbh. I didn't assume animals were not intelligent. Maybe it's actually worse to not connect the dots vs. assuming that what you eat is stupid. I don't know.
hey ed i’d love to hear you touch more on the climate and conservation side to veganism. watching breaking boundaries on netflix helped me build a good argument for it. thank you for your activism, you’ve inspired me to follow in your footsteps.
He seemed like a nice guy but he raised the issue of animals being pumped with antibiotics and he was against that ……… but then says he eats chicken because it’s healthy ! 🤷♂️
Amazing activism, Ed!! The student’s blatant indifference to the suffering of “dumber” animals was so frustrating to watch. I really hope he’ll consider accepting and acting upon his true compassionate feelings.
Epic. Thank you Ed! Hey everyone, let's also support vegan activists with small channels such as Debug Your Brain, The Juggling Vegan, Clif Grant, The Victim's Perspective, Vegan Kole, Plant Strength They are doing an amazing job for the animals but still don't have a big platform
"Practically justified"...so something is okay because the logistics are simple? I think he means it's not morally justified, but it's easy for me so I'm gonna keep doing it. I can see this guy going vegan once he reflects on this conversation.
He admits that it isn't morally justified but - for him - it's practically justified because it's convenient. By that point, he's completely proved Ed's argument: it's not morally justified
@@mrspacebaconlover1402 But vegans only exist right now because of supply chain convenience, why is that different? It wouldn't have been possible to be vegan more than 100 years ago because of that.
@@subverted6555 Your idea of what 100 years ago was like in American food seems to be way off. Yes, people could have been vegan. Unless someone was destitute in the first place, access to legumes, whole grains, fruit and veg wasn't hard. Even in climates where it was cold for a large part of the year, people ate from their cellars and canning. The difference is that almost no one even considered veganism as a possibility.
@@basbleupeaunoire Having access to all the different foods you need and supplements you need to live life as a vegan was not possible 100 years ago. You really think that 100 years ago not a person had the thought of "I don't like killing or using animal products, Im going to try to live without them"? It's because it wasn't viable. That's why veganism is largely considered an unnatural diet for humans, because for 99.99% of our history, there didn't exist veganism.
@@subverted6555 I can't think of a single thing that wasn't available then. Not one. You think vegans invented vitamins? And I don't mean tablets. I mean - what nutrients do you think exist now that didn't exist then?
In today's episode of Debate a Vegan we're at UC Davis. James' girlfriend, who is vegan, asked him to join me at the table to debate whether or not veganism is a moral obligation. Let me know how you think the conversation with James went!
🌱 Become a monthly or one-off supporter of my work at universities (thank you so much!): earthlinged.org/support
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V👇iagra is eating animals, fat deposits clog the arteries !!! Erectile dysfunction 🥩 blockage inside your, do you know what 😮👇
th-cam.com/video/19CUzfCOvPc/w-d-xo.html 2 minutes. th-cam.com/video/dhM37kBixlc/w-d-xo.html
“Jeffrey Dharma, M🔴Donald’s 🔴” th-cam.com/video/HmqW9jViEyk/w-d-xo.html
.. Like CharIes Man🖕son. Proxy killing... 👈🤥🍖🔴.... 🙄. Over a burger. 5 minute burger !! Animals life gone for good !! 🤦🏼♂️
Twice a Coooooooo-ward !!!! Hypoooocrite. Big time.
I was a hypocrite. But now I’m vegan. Don’t hurt animals. Simple really. ✅🤷🏼♂️. TH-cam delicious vegan food. Time to change.... ✅
I wonder if Mr ancap will show up?
Heart attack pictures, fatty foods is animals clogged arteries : th-cam.com/video/15wgYsToORM/w-d-xo.html !!! th-cam.com/video/pFPFnhfuLrE/w-d-xo.html Vegans don’t have this problem because that is the animals. Vegans don’t get clogged arteries, 4% cancer if you’re vegan. Meat based diet 51% death rate. That is extremely high for a frigging burger etc. Gorillas in the wild, have 1 percent cancer. And they never ever eat animals !!! Peer review science !!!!
Hey Ed, it's me, James!
I really enjoyed our conversation and honestly didn't think you would post it, so it was a fun surprise seeing it this morning.
At this point in time, I don't eat meat, dairy, or non pasture raised eggs anymore, and it's partially because kind and fair people like you introduced me to the issue in a clear, uncharged way.
I think that a lot of people, when they have to think about the moral justifications in their lives, either try to build their values around their actions or feel that they cannot mend the rift between the two. I was the latter, and felt like it was impossible for me to care enough to live by unhypocritical moral standards. I think a lot of people feel the same way, that doing something good means exerting emotional energy to care a lot. And with this belief, it becomes easier to accept yourself as a bad person, because you don't believe you can care.
But you don't need to feel guilt and pain and watch videos of baby chickens dying and cows having their throats slit to do something moral. You're allowed to just live in a way you decide is right because you reach that conclusion through deliberate thought. It's at least something that helps me do things I don't think I have enough compassion for, and might help someone else too.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of you, thanks again Ed.
I love this comment! Super enjoyable debate to watch, so refreshing to hear people actually listen to others' perspectives
This is so awesome. In the video, I shared a lot of your exact same thoughts right before I made the jump and went fully vegan. I'm really happy you made the change
You're cute af
I'm a very recent vegan as well. I've been eating vegan exclusively for about a week now and was vegetarian for a year or so before. Those same thoughts that you were expressing were my reasons for being vegetarian - I knew that the industry was bad, but I was just spooked to make the change I think. Be sure to look into some good resources for maintaining vegan habits. Morally, I don't think you'll return to using animal products, but cravings might become very real for the both of us. One way to combat that, I've read, is to make sure you are eating enough fats as well as protein. Animal protein is usually accompanied with about the same amount of fat and it's the fat that we end up craving, I'm told. Good luck, very happy to see this comment and the talk!
That's beautiful
I find this to be the most common response when I interview people.
1) I don't want animals to be abused.
2) I realize I'm paying for them to be abused.
3) It's a horrible industry
4) .......BUT....I'm not sure that I'm going to change.
I find this too! What is that?!? Fear of change or of the unknown? Fear of changing one's habits? Of suddenly being different? I just don't get it. And some of my family members are like this!!!
@@vegancolleen Definitely status quo bias and I think the misapprehension that going vegan is much harder than it actually is. Although for some people I imagine their social circle can be pretty hostile to the change.
I think because veganism is sort of a rabbit hole and people can sense that
@@ultralightcam6963 What do you mean by rabbit hole?
I think when you've gotten the acknowledgement, it's actually easy for people to change. Not going full vegan, but to go more plant-based (and this is hugely important, and it IS real progress). The last things you need to ask is: what can you do to reduce the contribution to this horrible industry? Let them start to think of reasons on their own, and they'll be more inclined to do it, and they'll think about the issue more often. Having 10 people reduce their animal product consumption by 50% is better than convincing one person to go full vegan IMO. (Ok, there are nuances to this, but as a rule of thumb, I think it's better)
It takes a lot of courage and maturity to admit your faults and even say “I don’t know.” This man is obviously open to conversation and is perceptive. I feel this conversation will stay with him and influence his future choices. I have a lot of respect for his responses. He’s well on his way to veganism.
He only said "I don't know" when the answer was clear but went against his actions.
"Is it okay to kill an animal because they are less intelligent when it's unnecessary?"
"I really don't know"
How courageous and mature... Or just not wanting to admit that it's wrong
@@brixan... it might be his first time thinking about this or being asked these questions.
@@VeganWellnessTribe I'm just saying it's not courageous or mature. It's closer to the opposite
@@brixan... We are all learning and makings changes at our own pace. I find it admirable when someone doesn’t feel like they have to have all the answers and be right. He was humble enough to be honest.
@@brixan... you brought it on the point. when you understand body language it becomes obvious that he was just avoiding answering the question honestly to preserve the 'positive image', the 'positive looking mask' he's projecting to the outside. after all for most humans life is nothing but a popularity contest. a game. everything is allowed. and worth apparently is only dependend on what the hivemind thinks of one.
oh and edit: especially because it's also very suspicious how aware he was of the alien comparison - it seems obvious to me that this is by far not the first convo with an activist he had. it just seems like he is opportunistically taking the experience to avoid presenting his true self. just like the majority of the hivemind. so all can just keep status quo with all of their might while simultaniously complain about status quo.
Ed is probably the only person on earth who can receive a handshake from the same person he just called willfully ignorant to their face.
Well, he's the only person that i can think of.
James just needs time to think about all this, this is the first step on his journey to becoming a vegan. I think James is a thoughtful kind person, and that he will become vegan. Edit to minutes later...James posted that he is now vegan and appreciates the conversation because that is what helped him to get there !
maturity or wisdom to both sides !?
@@jean6453 he went vegan, for real???
Wow, how smug of you to say that.
Ed in 2014 : I will never go vegan I love kfc
Ed's girlfriend: I am gonna start this man's whole career
😂 😂😂
We are all grateful of Luna for her wonderful work.
Behind every great man.
She's like, OK, I'm gonna let him have his hair.
LOL damn right she was.
And look where it got him!
All turned out well.
@@BillijeanS442 Is a pushy manipulative woman?
The guy saying "It's not morally justified, it's practically justified" sums up the attitudes of a lot of carnists.
100%
Why do I have to justify eating meat? and to who?
@@bluemeister22 me! 😀
@@tobythepigguy To bad son..
@@bluemeister22:(
An honest lad but a lad who certainly hasn't watched a baby cow stolen and killed, baby male chicks ground up alive, the faces of animals waiting outside a slaughterhouse, ect.
I've never seen any of that because I've specifically avoided it due to being squeamish. I'm still vegan.
I think this guy is on his way. Seeing those traumatic things might speed it along but I don't think his destination is different.
@@austin7761 I can actually relate to this, because I actually haven’t watched any slaughterhouse footage until after I went vegan. For me, I needed rational argumentation to convince me to go vegan, not appeals to emotion.
@@johnchesterfield9726 which of the thinking MBTI type are you?
@@FruityHachi Every time I take that test, I always get either logician or architect.
@@johnchesterfield9726 i used to get INTJ too :D then when i worked on my emotional intelligence i now get INFJ
MBTI results are screenshots in time anyway, but it's nice to know where people are in a given time
Hi
Wonderful!!!
now it's your turn ;)
He’s exactly where I used to be: he’s already a vegan but he doesn’t know it yet!
Love this ❤️🙌🏻🔥 we can relate can’t we ❤️💚
This made me actually laugh out loud! Love it!
If a year ago, someone told me I'm about to stop eating meat for the rest of my life, I'd probably have a panic attack. If you told me back then I'll be calling myself vegan I'd probably cringe and tell you "nope lol".
I remember buying hand lotion back in the day and I have put it back on the shelf, just because it had vegan sign on it. I wasn't some vegan hater but for some reason I didn't want to have anything to do with veganism. It's sad to see people dismiss veganism "just because" but I understand the process. I was that person, but now I can't imagine living any other way.
That’s AMAZING
I have the same story pretty much - vegan for just over a year and I went straight from eating meat / dairy very regularly (thought I needed to as I lift weights) to being vegan pretty much overnight. I used to actually avoid something like a brownie I fancied if it said vegan next to it. What the hell was my issue? I recognise myself in people I speak to now but I also understand that I just didn't get it before, and not everyone is convinced by the same argument. I researched by myself, watched documentaries and TH-camrs but definitely helped that I did it with my girlfriend - the worst part is feeling lonely with it.
i was kinda the same, although back then i had never even heard about veganism (since it wasn't that wide-spread) but i had some vegetarian classmates and when they said they are vegetarian because of animals i looked at them like i don't want anything to do with them :D
fast-forward and i became vegan for the animals
What happened to motivate you to go vegan? I'm curious because my husband is almost as you were even though every meal I cook is vegan.
@@tinaeden8317
At the time I have been watching Alex O'Connor (cosmic skeptic), I was impressed with his takes on philosophy and religion. Then I discovered his video "meat eater's case for veganism", so I watched it. There was nothing I disagreed with. For the first time in my life I realised that 7 billion people might be wrong about something.
Then I discovered Earthling Ed and documentaries like Dominion or Land of Hope and Glory. Reading Animal Liberation and watching those documentaries left me disgusted with the world. At that point there was no way not to become vegan. It wasn't something I planned or agreed to, one day I just realised I'm vegan.
What worked on me:
- discovering veganism on my own, from someone I respected, not feeling pushed into anything
- dominion
- watching "life on our planet" on netflix. If someone won't agree to watch those violent docs like "Dominion", Life on our planet can actually make a difference. It brings a new perspective on animals, makes you realise how detached we are from nature, how ignorant it is to think that humans have more rights to be on this planet than any other being. It's also just stunning to watch
- Realising absurdities of animal agriculture highlighted in Cowspiracy and Seaspiracy. It's way easier to see how our laws are dependent on apetite for meat and cheese rather than having habitable planet. Basically realising how silly we are as a species.
- Gary Yourofsky speech
This guy is so much like me before I went vegan, recognising the reality of the situation, agreeing with everything in principle but just not doing it. The day I realised I didn't need to keep eating meat just because I'd always done it and it was convenient and easy and everyone else was doing it was the day I changed for the better. I hope he makes the change as well.
I thought exactly like this dude a year ago or so, justified eating chicken since it was healthier/more ethical than eating cows and pigs too. So glad I met my vegan girlfriend, she really inspired me a lot to Make the transition. Happy to say I’ve been fully vegan since the start of 2022!
You must have an amazing girlfriend.
Thank you both for being vegan
I always say the vegan circle is so small to date.. Instead we have to date the masses and turn them from within. Bravo to your gf for score!
Same here!
The boyfriends/girlfriends who turned so many of us vegans are MVPs.
Love can change to world! So glad your girlfriend managed to influence you, mine is a bit slower- but I do cook for her and she enjoys it, deems it healthier.
I think this conversation shows, that sometimes it is necessary to gain your own experience to fully understand the circumstances of animal exploitation. I was vegetarian for a long time and was convinced, that i was doing enough to avoid harm. Than we decided to get backyard chickens because we did not want to support the egg industry anymore. After a few months we became vegan because we realised that it was impossible to have eggs and not do any harm to the chickens in the long run. Chickens only lay eggs for a few years, maybe five or six, but they can live up to 15 years. First i thought no problem, we can hatch our own chicks so we'll have always some fresh hens. And this worked suprisingly fine except the half were roosters. Although we live on a farm and have plenty of space it was not possible to keep all of the roosters and it was quite difficult to find a decent new home for them. So what i'm saying is, if you want eggs you'll find yourself sooner or later killing the supernumerary roosters. This turns out to be a tragedy because what you experienced by having your own animals, is that every one of them is an individual. Chickens are very social and really fascinating creatures and you shouldn't underestimate them.
Thanks for sharing this story, showed me a new perspective about eggs I hadn't thought of.
Amazing insight! Thanks for sharing
It is quite unlikely that the chickens would live that long (especially with rescued chickens) so it is possible to just not allow them to mate. If buying chickens from a shop it's paying for the killing of a male. Keeping chickens for that long is using a fair amount of grain so it's an environmental expense.
@@danthelambboy I don‘t get your point. Are you suggesting just to have backyard chickens without any rooster (do not allow them to mate) and only take rescued hens. But this dosen‘t solve the problem that in some time you‘ll end up with lots of hens that don‘t lay anymore eggs, even if they won‘t live that long. Rescued hens have even a much shorter period of laying eggs because they were bred to lay as many eggs as possible in their first years. Then you are suggesting to kill them if they stop being profitable because its an environmental expense? How does this help if you don‘t want to harm them? Not a solution in my eyes. On the contrary, this verified there is no ethic way of having eggs in the long run.
Thank you for sharing.
The fact that we even have to "debate" this subject is unbelievable. Thank you Ed for everything you do.
I remember when I became a vegan, I said EXACTLY what Ed said at the end, that I felt such a disconnect between my actions and my beliefs. My partner turned to me and said “well why don’t you stop then?” I quit meat that day, quit eggs and dairy about a month later, and am continuing my journey every day to better align my actions with my beliefs. It’s so much harder, soooo much harder, but I think it’s worth it. If I died today I wouldn’t have the same regrets on my shoulders, I feel lighter and more aligned with my values.
@M. Elizabeth Scott Food can be addictive, especially when you are taught to involve certain foods in every meal throughout your life.
I really enjoy watching the debates where the other person is responsive like this and is willing to admit when they’re wrong. I’m working on becoming vegan at the moment. It’s difficult because I live with my parents and don’t buy the groceries, but I’m doing the best I can because of what you’ve shown me.
I'm so glad you're doing the best you can, keep going girl❤️❤️ When you live alone you will be 100% vegan, stay strong!
Yes that's a great step, when you go out and buy things yourself and pick vegan options instead of animal ones is great
I was in the same situation as you! I only ate animal products at home when my parents cooked them. but whenever I bought anything for myself outside/with friends/at school, I chose the vegan option. :)
You should research reasons why you shouldn't be a vegan too. Unless you know both sides of the arguments, you really can't make an informed opinion. Even watching explicit anti-vegan video's would give you another perspective.
@@subverted6555 I think it’s funny that you assume I haven’t or that I don’t know the many arguments people make against it. I think I can handle the decision but thank you
I used to do vegan activism a few years ago. I wish I had your potential for arguing back then. Fortunately I found your channel and fell in love with it, it's really inspiring and makes me wanna do some activism again, you're very patient while discussing with people who notoriously has a way different point of view than yours, and that's fully respectable.
Thanks for being a light in a world that's dominated by the lack of empathy. Cheers from Chile!
Bro you can do it. Ed wasn’t always this good. Practice makes perfect!
@@jameszivai1481 yeah, I actually led a local activism team, just stopped because of a matter of time, but will eventually return to it :)
@@benjaminfuenzalida6765 I will be looking out for it!
This is what a grown up conversation looks like. Refreshing
Last time I was this early, we could still get B12 from dirty vegetables.
Hahahaha love this
😅
Good one 😂
Yeast is B12. Teaspoon 500% !!!!! And it’s natural 🦠 (hint hint 🥖🍞B12 ). Or marmite teaspoonful 480% !!!!! Duckweed B12 500% teaspoon !!!....
😂
He would choose plant-based over an animal, but would choose an animal if he was stuck in the woods hunting berries. So why is he eating animals? He ain't in the woods.
You sir have made the fatal mistake of looking for logic !
Aren't we all living on a desert island with poisonous plants?
James made a post here in the comment section, check it out :)
🌍 Vegan for life 🍀
Always so impressed with your way of breaking down an argument and then build it back up, bringing the person along with all parts until the full argument is made and understood by the other person. Hats of to you Ed!
He just needs a couple more vegan friends I feel.
THIS
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ lol why because prolonging his life by several more years is so terrible right? btw no one can "force" anyone to be vegan. if vegans could do that, everyone would be a vegan by now.
Why you feeling his vegan friends? 😉😁
I took my meat-eating brother to see Earthlings years ago. He was way more emotionally affected by it than me (because it was new to him, not to me). I remember him crying his eyes out outside the screening telling me he now understood my lifestyle choice, but that he could never change his diet. It was a puzzling moment for me.
I really appreciate these conversations and all that y’all are doing. Thanks!
Dear Ed,
I just wanted to say that I follow your content for a while now and I just want to say: thank you.
You are so incredibly inspiring and you do so much for the vegan movement and in konsequence for the animals.
I admire and love your work
This honestly reminds me of the debate i had with my sister when she essentially convinced me to go vegan. Took a few more months and some vegan fast food before I actually did it though.
You are my hero, Ed. Don't stop doing what you do. The funny thing about awareness is it can't be undone. I've been a vegetarian for thirty-five years and vegan for the past two years. All any of us can do at this point, given the predicament our planet is in, is not participate in the exploitation of anyone or anything. Exploitation, in any form, is evil. When it comes time for me to kick the bucket, I want to do so knowing I at least tried to do better to make the world a better place. That's what you're doing, Ed. You're making the world a better place, one conversation at a time. Good for you.
What Ed said about chickens actually happened to me. I started out with a few hens as pets. People wanted eggs from us so I got more hens and ducks. It wasn’t long before health problems started showing up and I quickly was unable to keep them all healthy. Having a few hens was great though. They are fun to have around.
The use *is* the abuse. This guy needs to understand that.
Yes, I wish Ed touched on commodification of animals
I disagree, we use other people al the time, it's not wrong unless you harm someone
@@samvandervelden8243 you literally kill them, what could be more harmful ?
@@unr3markabl393 I'm talking about backyard chickens, not killing them
@@samvandervelden8243 where do your backyard chickens come from, if your not buying them when they are chicks themselves, which is unlikely (and kills millions of roosters). You "rescue" animals out of disgusting practices.
Lets just say that you get your backyard chickens from such a institution, then you inadvertently kill a lot by participating in the first place. Moreover these breed animals shouldnt even exist to begin with. Chickens have layed about 15 eggs a year before we manipulated them for our needs and for many of these pitiful existences life is pain from start to finish.
I may not be as eloquent es Ed is in his video on exaclty that topic so i suggest you go watch that, for a much better explanation.
Always love the patience and kindness you bring to these conversations! I've learned so much from these debates!
i am getting better at having easier conversations :)
Here to share my thoughts for no reason at all but I just love Ed for doing all these debates in such a friendly way and I strive to be like him. My temper would probably skyrocket if I had to talk to some of the people he talks to (not this guy ofc). I've been vegan for almost a year as a 15-year-old in my meat and dairy eating family. People are always questioning me and I don't personally know any other vegans so it gets lonely. I'm proud of myself is all I can say. Having Ed's videos to binge watch for the last 2 months has really gotten me to build a good argument for myself and even be able to defend my veganism bc of course the world can't just accept it. Thank you so much for educating people Ed
I’m proud of you too! ❤️🔥🔥🫂
Big supporter of Ed and I believe that this interview went very well. James was polite and I believe will convert to being Vegan.
*deconvert from carnism
Don't use the word convert, makes us sound like cultists. It's the meat eaters who are brainwashed. Veganism is just being logical and aligning your existing beliefs.
Yeah it was nice to see him interview someone who wasn't aggressively ignorant, this guy seemed very level-headed
@@pacmanmcgavin7034 says an herbivorous individual who get's literally clogged arteries with every molecule of animal protein or dietary cholesterol they consume. the cognitive dissonance, conditioned superiority complex and willful ignorance is strong in this one. but then again - can't help anybody who is too stubborn and narrow minded enough to realize that they need help. many carnists after all only believe what they want to believe. self-deception is the easiest thing for those herd animals.
He posted in the comments section. He seems to be on his way.
This right here:
Antibiotic use in the animal farming industry is peak human arrogance. We are using this incredibly important medicine. Something we rely on for survival to eliminate deaths from truly preventable illnesses. We are squandering the miracle of modern medicine by keeping an animal alive just long enough so they can get to slaughter weight. ~ Earthling Ed
This guy was probably the most well-spoken out of all of Ed's opponents. No where near as infuriating as most of the idiots he debates.
clearly schooled by his girlfriend from home
this guy is dumb too hes say animals are dumb so lets eat them
Maybe Ed has been sharpening his tools on the low hanging fruit and is now moving up the tree?:)
@@vthomas375 The previous fruit were defiantly hanging very low indeed !
Nah, the Libertarian was well spoken. 🤣 So well, I couldn´t really stand to listen to him without laughing.
Kudos to the interviewee, he is by far the most sensible person took part in this series of debates.
The convinience of not having to scrub your pans like crazy because of all the fat is a really big bonus. It's one of the perks of a plant based livestyle!
Underrated benefit
Or worried about germs on your uncooked food 🔥
@@NotTodaySatan557 It's not "germs," it's actually bacteria - salmonella, E coli, listeria, campylobacter, etc.
@@NotTodaySatan557 Literally so true. Raw cookie dough all day long.
Idk man my pans get pretty filthy from plant oil. And sadly, even our veggies and stuff can have those same bacteria - because they use animal shit as fertilizer. But yeah, tasting dough without fear is great.
Chickens do need their eggs and it's still stressful for them to lose their eggs. When they lose them they have to make more and it hurts their body to make a lot. Chickens used to not lay many eggs at all, we've bred them into laying more than they naturally would. They also sometimes eat their eggs and get vital nutrients from that. So I believe it's still immoral to have backyard chickens and steal their eggs. I think they would have to be treated like how other domesticated pets are treated and not use anything from them as a product and just love them and take care of them ❤️
Beautifully put by somebody with a beautiful name/username! ❤
@@farahsummers1171 Thank you, that made my day 🥰
He's going to grow from this conversation. Knowledge is power. One thing I wish we could connect more with is the question of intelligence and where compassion comes into play. We're all just working through justifications we didn't have to articulate before because we never really had to. Good job, E. Loving your book.
I appreciate his openness. His mention of vastly more intelligent aliens farming humans is SPOT-ON and rarely something a Carnist will rarely come up with on their own. Kudos to him for thinking deeper about these ethical matters more than most people do.
Really? I thought that was a common thing for people to think about and talk about even if they eat meat. Even as young kids. Not just about eating animals, but any weird human interaction with an animal you’d imagine yourself as the animal a giant superintelligent alien as the human.
I think James is "that close" to becoming vegan. Good to know that so many associated issues (health, abx resistance, climate, etc.) are also becoming well understood.
interesting that most people bring up ants as being lower on the intelligence level while ants are able to build complex structures, whereas most humans aren't able to, and most of the time can't build even a simple structure
That seems like an unfair comparison. No single ant can build much. Likewise no single human can build much
@@liammarshall-butler3384 ok, but even if people collaborated with each other to build something, still most people wouldn't be able to build much since most people don't have to bother to learn that, most people just hire pros to do it for them
yet ants are natural in it, or at the very least every ant is expected to gain experience in building structures
the point is, that people who justify eating animals by using intelligence, using space ships or symphonies as proof of our intelligence, they're using intelligence of handful of people and pretending it's their own or that it's the intelligence of the whole humankind
Dude you look healthy as fuck.
I just had a Beyond Patty melt and some buffalo cauliflower chicken wings.
Some of us do it for our health,
Some do it for the animals
Some do it for the planet
Some of us do it for all of the above!
However you vegan, it’s valid ✅
I appreciate this guys honesty. Most people retroactively form their morals based on their existing actions to avoid a sense of wrongdoing, he does not
When he says "I don't know" I feel like he definitely DOES know, but the dissonance holds him back. The illusion is definitely breaking though!
I love ED! Love the channel. Love being Vegan!
What a great interview. I wish more people could have an intellectual conversation like James can. He even repeatedly says "I don't know." It's so rare to hear that anymore.
Thanks Ed for your Epic debate skills! It’s the MOST Convenient time to be Vegan. Seriously! In 1990’s a vegi burger was a specialty item you could only get in health food stores. It’s easier than ever to be Vegan. It only took one slaughter house video for me to change for life! (Thanks PETA) If you truly Love Animals, there is No other option than to be Vegan.
He was very respectful and I am sure Ed opened up his ideologies about veganism and meat consumption. Conversation about differences or something you do not understand is something we miss the mark on a lot in society anymore.
Great more advanced conversation, nice to hear :)
I worked in this industry and suffer with flashbacks. When you work in investigations you see things 99% of the public never will. The way we treat animals all for something as trivial as taste pleasure!? Monsters puts it lightly..
I feel for you, friend. Thank you for speaking on this 💚
@@OM617a I appreciate the kind words. With people like yourself and the rise of knowledge and access we’ll see a large shift in our lifetime.
@@NotTodaySatan557 thanks so much I appreciate it until every cage is empty 🌱💚
It just kills me how people will agree that supporting animal exploitation is morally reprehensible and then use pretzel logic as a justification for why it's ok for them to do that very thing!
What is pretzel logic? 😂😂😂
hehe pretzel logic
@@vioheubach3112 bending over backwards and twisting to try and make it fit to their logic.
Pretzel are in fact, vegan 🥨💚
@@vioheubach3112 Logic that has all kinds of twists and turns - like a pretzel
What a lovely young man ❤
He's almost there! This convo definitely planted some seeds!
Thank you Ed for raising awareness
it's really refreshing to hear someone being so honest (with Ed and themselves)! I think a lot of people are okay with eating eat because they are removed from the process, because it's more convenient, because it's what they've always done and they live in a society that largely condones it, and because they just chose not to think about it too hard, but it was super refreshing to hear someone actually willing to admit that and to listen to Ed and do some real introspection
Totally agree.
He seemed very nice :) I sadly only get people who yell at me and say I'm stupid, then quit the conversation when they see they can't dabate my points :/
Glad this person is very open and I love you both talking respectfully and nice.
Girlfriend done him dirty I can already tell
What a cool intelligent guy! Very well spoken. Tough interview because he thought quickly and smart enough to understand what was logical. Great job as always Ed!
Aw man, please come to the Netherlands again, I missed you in Delft last time :(
6:52 : If the slaughter happens in someone's backyard, it's okay, if it's in the front yard, not so much
Wow
you are so intelligent and well spoken! im impressed yet again, and not to mention what a respectful and mature conversation by each member! i love seeing the comment from james as well!!! so happy to be able to see the impact of your conversations like that
Should be a guide in debate and discussion.Earthling Ed is brilliant! When he leads the conversation (rarely) he brilliantly guides people to draw their own conclusions!
21:00 - 21:56 Absolutely loved that part. I really appreciate that you can recognize the widely varying degrees of harm and aren't so dogmatic about animal exploitation being wrong on the same level in any circumstance. Great point you brought about how a basically harm free system could go back to what we have today, I never thought about this.
In response to that girlfriend's boyfriend's thought on "if you're the smartest, you should take advantage" I would think that if you're smart you're at the point where you are motivated to make the world a better place for all sentient beings. This means that you have evolved into a better being that puts feelings of others before your taste buds.
There's a saying that "Intelligence is the ability to decide what's important and doing it." How many humans can actually prove their intelligence in this way, including this man? In contrast, the animals prove their intelligence in everything they do to survive and be happy. I greatly challenge the theory that it's the human species who are the most intelligent. It's simply arrogance not based on facts.
People who say "it's ok when it's your cow and you basically treat it like a pet" have no idea how one gets milk and that the cow first needs to be pregnant just like a human, a cat, a dog etc. and then you need to take their babies away so they don't eat all the milk. Why don't we drink dog or cat milk then?
Because cats and dogs don't produce a lot of milk. So exploiting them would be prohibitively expensive.
@@chuckybang cows don't produce much milk at first, until we selectively breed and engineered them to be. We could breed specific types of dogs/cats that produce shit ton of milk if we want to. But I don't think the general public would accept that
You’re my hero Ed!! Thank you!! 🌱
Love your debates Ed! 💚💚💚
Veganism is rising and thriving while carnism is trying and dying!
I’d like to hope so.
Heart disease will do that.
Thanks as always, Ed 🌱
Ed’s vegan coat looking nice, ED WHERE YOU GET IT
I’d love to know too!!
@@underground5220 nah
i never miss one video of you Ed! Youre wonderful. Thanks so much! :)
He sort of gets it, the cognitive dissonance is strong you can tell he was thinking of ways to break the logical outcome so hopefully he will shift.
Cognitive dissonance the massive puzzle piece for any non vegan. However, relative to the bulk of the population, the dissonnance wasn't strong at all with him. I very much disagree with your statement and that's unfair for James to say that. He was very honest with his situation and Ed summed it up very well at the end, you can rewatch from 22:12.
@@cedb3360 No cognitive dissonance whatsoever. We're omnivores eating a species specific diet. Vegans are the weirdos trying to stuff a round peg in a square hole. The vast majority of vegans go back to eating meat for this very reason. It's not present day humans fault that our ancestors ate animals for millions of years, leaving us with digestive tracts designed to get the majority of our nutrition and calories from animal sources, any more than it is a grizzly bears fault for fishing salmon out of a river.
He posted a comment. He's given up meat, dairy, and eggs not produced in xyz manner (I can't remember.) He was clearly open to the idea of veganism, and he seems to be on his way.
I really liked that this guy points out that the word "humane" simply means not actively causing harm... that is how our society interprets this word at least- so by labeling something "humane" simply means it was done in a way to not deliberately cause undue harm and suffering- the lowest moral bar as he says. Thank you to this guy for pointing it out!
INB4 *"His girlfriend asked him to fight Mike Tyson. This is how it went."*
But when all's said and done, what a pair of delightful, thoughtful young men.
If we were naturally meat-eating animals that bloke wouldn't be 'grossed out' by the sight of a pig being slaughtered and slaughterhouse workers wouldn't be upset by their work. They would love it. They would look forward to going to work. That these people react in such ways is proof that we evolved to eat plants.
Humans are biological omnivores facts don’t care about your feelings
If we were herbivores we wouldn't try making greens taste better. It would simply be the best tasting food to us, BUT it's not.
No wonder, children hate veggies, we are meant to eat meat.
And please check out how dangerous harvesting cashews is. You people need to know where your food comes from and stop focusing on where meat comes from. Y'all lack info
There are tons of jobs that are morally okay, and actually do a lot of good, but the workers hate going to work--but they have to for their survival. I once heard dentists have high suicide rates.
I don’t think so. People from western civilisations are more shocked by animal slaughter because they don’t see it as often. People in more rural developing nations are less shocked by such things. People adapt to whatever their society is like.
@@melittavigh5343 I'm pretty sure you use herbs on your steak and don't just have it raw. Lol and have you ever tasted fruits before? You're going to tell me that needs seasoning? Veggies on their own is good too, wtf. Like yeah we cook veggies with spices but we also cook lentils, chickpeas ect so what's the point in "needing meat" lol. That's just protein you could get from said chickpeas. Y'all meat eaters need to learn how to eat AND research... you obviously don't know where your meat comes from with all the contamination and feces ridden antibiotic pumped food you consume.
Aside from the moral aspect, to eat meat for "health reasons" 15:56 is also debatable. 18:31 eggs are also very harmful, especially for those with heart disease.
Well done Ed and the chap being interviewed. he was sensible and responsive which is more than some other school (Vale)
The more elite the university gets, the dumber the answers are.
Awesome conversation/debate - and James, well done for taking an ethical stand (I saw your comment below)!
Let's just give all animals the benefit of the doubt and just assume they're intelligent and just let them be and live their lives. I don't understand the constant need of people to have to categorise animals by percieved intelligence.
I really love this thought! You said this well and I fully agree with the sentiment.
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ electronics?
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ you’re going to need to elaborate. But also, regardless, if humans are so intelligent, we can come up with new and creative, non-harming ways to advance technology and medicine.
Were you raised vegan? If not, you've probably done it too. The idea of livestock being "dumb animals" underpins the whole practice of eating meat.
@@basbleupeaunoire No, i simply didn't think about it when i still ate meat tbh. I didn't assume animals were not intelligent. Maybe it's actually worse to not connect the dots vs. assuming that what you eat is stupid. I don't know.
It was refreshing to listen to this argument: calm, open to listening to one another, and just being kind to one another
Ed! Where did you buy your vegan jacket?
Legendary work as ever, sire.
Thank you very much.
This was a wonderful conversation. You could see James's first rate brain churning away as Ed spoke. : ) Thanks for posting!
This was honestly refreshing to listen to!
hey ed i’d love to hear you touch more on the climate and conservation side to veganism. watching breaking boundaries on netflix helped me build a good argument for it. thank you for your activism, you’ve inspired me to follow in your footsteps.
Have you watched his videos on the subject? There are several.
@@basbleupeaunoire yes i was meaning to touch on it in these arguments! i feel like it could help sway people a bit.
@@lindseyanderson4033 Ah, thanks.
Great conversation! I learned a lot from this and I am a subscriber now because I watched your documentary and love your content 💛
honey wake up, earthling ed uploaded
Another excellent debate! Thank you Ed!
his girlfriend knew that this wasn't just "a vegan", it was "THE vegan" :P
Great conversation, nice to listen to your calm voice Ed 👍
He seemed like a nice guy but he raised the issue of animals being pumped with antibiotics and he was against that ……… but then says he eats chicken because it’s healthy ! 🤷♂️
ikr, i wonder what he thinks is healthy about eating chicken flesh
TH-cam can be really cruel at times, showing an ad for Bass Pro Shop mid-video.
Amazing activism, Ed!! The student’s blatant indifference to the suffering of “dumber” animals was so frustrating to watch. I really hope he’ll consider accepting and acting upon his true compassionate feelings.
Nah, he wasn't indifferent. He was reflecting on the way people (including himself) rationalize eating some animals but not others.
Super cool discussion as always, thanks Ed!
Epic. Thank you Ed!
Hey everyone, let's also support vegan activists with small channels such as Debug Your Brain, The Juggling Vegan, Clif Grant, The Victim's Perspective, Vegan Kole, Plant Strength
They are doing an amazing job for the animals but still don't have a big platform
I'll definitely check these out, thanks for the suggestions!
thanks for the suggestions!!
Debug your Brain does amazing work. Highly recommended!
Intraspecies too and Vegan Gaze and Lifting Vegan Logic and Plant Chompers and Joey Carbstrong! Thanks for your suggestiong, i subbed them all :).
check out David Ramms - face the facts friday is good content!
So grateful for you Ed. The movement needs you!
"Practically justified"...so something is okay because the logistics are simple? I think he means it's not morally justified, but it's easy for me so I'm gonna keep doing it. I can see this guy going vegan once he reflects on this conversation.
He admits that it isn't morally justified but - for him - it's practically justified because it's convenient. By that point, he's completely proved Ed's argument: it's not morally justified
@@mrspacebaconlover1402 But vegans only exist right now because of supply chain convenience, why is that different? It wouldn't have been possible to be vegan more than 100 years ago because of that.
@@subverted6555 Your idea of what 100 years ago was like in American food seems to be way off. Yes, people could have been vegan. Unless someone was destitute in the first place, access to legumes, whole grains, fruit and veg wasn't hard. Even in climates where it was cold for a large part of the year, people ate from their cellars and canning. The difference is that almost no one even considered veganism as a possibility.
@@basbleupeaunoire Having access to all the different foods you need and supplements you need to live life as a vegan was not possible 100 years ago. You really think that 100 years ago not a person had the thought of "I don't like killing or using animal products, Im going to try to live without them"? It's because it wasn't viable. That's why veganism is largely considered an unnatural diet for humans, because for 99.99% of our history, there didn't exist veganism.
@@subverted6555 I can't think of a single thing that wasn't available then. Not one. You think vegans invented vitamins? And I don't mean tablets. I mean - what nutrients do you think exist now that didn't exist then?
Another beautiful conversation!