His girlfriend asked him to debate a vegan. This is how it went.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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TODAY'S VIDEO:
In today's episode of Debate a Vegan we're at UC Davis. James' girlfriend, who is vegan, asked him to join me at the table to debate whether or not veganism is a moral obligation. We had an interesting discussion where we talked about a range of different topics such as animal intelligence, social Darwinism and backyard eggs. #Veganism #Morality #UCDavis
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ABOUT ED:
Ed Winters is a vegan educator, best-selling author, public speaker and content creator. Ed has spoken at over 1/3 of UK universities and at 6 Ivy league colleges, including as a guest lecturer at Harvard University in both 2019 and 2020. He has given speeches across the world, including at the University of Cambridge, EPFL, Google NYC and Google Zürich. In early 2019 he gave 2 TEDx talks, surpassing a total of 2 million views online. His speech “You Will Never Look at Your Life in the Same Way Again” has 35 million accumulative views online and has been given to thousands of students across UK universities.
In today's episode of Debate a Vegan we're at UC Davis. James' girlfriend, who is vegan, asked him to join me at the table to debate whether or not veganism is a moral obligation. Let me know how you think the conversation with James went!
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V👇iagra is eating animals, fat deposits clog the arteries !!! Erectile dysfunction 🥩 blockage inside your, do you know what 😮👇
th-cam.com/video/19CUzfCOvPc/w-d-xo.html 2 minutes. th-cam.com/video/dhM37kBixlc/w-d-xo.html
“Jeffrey Dharma, M🔴Donald’s 🔴” th-cam.com/video/HmqW9jViEyk/w-d-xo.html
.. Like CharIes Man🖕son. Proxy killing... 👈🤥🍖🔴.... 🙄. Over a burger. 5 minute burger !! Animals life gone for good !! 🤦🏼♂️
Twice a Coooooooo-ward !!!! Hypoooocrite. Big time.
I was a hypocrite. But now I’m vegan. Don’t hurt animals. Simple really. ✅🤷🏼♂️. TH-cam delicious vegan food. Time to change.... ✅
I wonder if Mr ancap will show up?
Heart attack pictures, fatty foods is animals clogged arteries : th-cam.com/video/15wgYsToORM/w-d-xo.html !!! th-cam.com/video/pFPFnhfuLrE/w-d-xo.html Vegans don’t have this problem because that is the animals. Vegans don’t get clogged arteries, 4% cancer if you’re vegan. Meat based diet 51% death rate. That is extremely high for a frigging burger etc. Gorillas in the wild, have 1 percent cancer. And they never ever eat animals !!! Peer review science !!!!
Hey Ed, it's me, James!
I really enjoyed our conversation and honestly didn't think you would post it, so it was a fun surprise seeing it this morning.
At this point in time, I don't eat meat, dairy, or non pasture raised eggs anymore, and it's partially because kind and fair people like you introduced me to the issue in a clear, uncharged way.
I think that a lot of people, when they have to think about the moral justifications in their lives, either try to build their values around their actions or feel that they cannot mend the rift between the two. I was the latter, and felt like it was impossible for me to care enough to live by unhypocritical moral standards. I think a lot of people feel the same way, that doing something good means exerting emotional energy to care a lot. And with this belief, it becomes easier to accept yourself as a bad person, because you don't believe you can care.
But you don't need to feel guilt and pain and watch videos of baby chickens dying and cows having their throats slit to do something moral. You're allowed to just live in a way you decide is right because you reach that conclusion through deliberate thought. It's at least something that helps me do things I don't think I have enough compassion for, and might help someone else too.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of you, thanks again Ed.
I love this comment! Super enjoyable debate to watch, so refreshing to hear people actually listen to others' perspectives
This is so awesome. In the video, I shared a lot of your exact same thoughts right before I made the jump and went fully vegan. I'm really happy you made the change
You're cute af
I'm a very recent vegan as well. I've been eating vegan exclusively for about a week now and was vegetarian for a year or so before. Those same thoughts that you were expressing were my reasons for being vegetarian - I knew that the industry was bad, but I was just spooked to make the change I think. Be sure to look into some good resources for maintaining vegan habits. Morally, I don't think you'll return to using animal products, but cravings might become very real for the both of us. One way to combat that, I've read, is to make sure you are eating enough fats as well as protein. Animal protein is usually accompanied with about the same amount of fat and it's the fat that we end up craving, I'm told. Good luck, very happy to see this comment and the talk!
That's beautiful
It takes a lot of courage and maturity to admit your faults and even say “I don’t know.” This man is obviously open to conversation and is perceptive. I feel this conversation will stay with him and influence his future choices. I have a lot of respect for his responses. He’s well on his way to veganism.
He only said "I don't know" when the answer was clear but went against his actions.
"Is it okay to kill an animal because they are less intelligent when it's unnecessary?"
"I really don't know"
How courageous and mature... Or just not wanting to admit that it's wrong
@@brixan... it might be his first time thinking about this or being asked these questions.
@@VeganWellnessTribe I'm just saying it's not courageous or mature. It's closer to the opposite
@@brixan... We are all learning and makings changes at our own pace. I find it admirable when someone doesn’t feel like they have to have all the answers and be right. He was humble enough to be honest.
@@brixan... you brought it on the point. when you understand body language it becomes obvious that he was just avoiding answering the question honestly to preserve the 'positive image', the 'positive looking mask' he's projecting to the outside. after all for most humans life is nothing but a popularity contest. a game. everything is allowed. and worth apparently is only dependend on what the hivemind thinks of one.
oh and edit: especially because it's also very suspicious how aware he was of the alien comparison - it seems obvious to me that this is by far not the first convo with an activist he had. it just seems like he is opportunistically taking the experience to avoid presenting his true self. just like the majority of the hivemind. so all can just keep status quo with all of their might while simultaniously complain about status quo.
Ed in 2014 : I will never go vegan I love kfc
Ed's girlfriend: I am gonna start this man's whole career
😂 😂😂
We are all grateful of Luna for her wonderful work.
Behind every great man.
She's like, OK, I'm gonna let him have his hair.
LOL damn right she was.
And look where it got him!
All turned out well.
@@BillijeanS442 Is a pushy manipulative woman?
Ed is probably the only person on earth who can receive a handshake from the same person he just called willfully ignorant to their face.
Well, he's the only person that i can think of.
James just needs time to think about all this, this is the first step on his journey to becoming a vegan. I think James is a thoughtful kind person, and that he will become vegan. Edit to minutes later...James posted that he is now vegan and appreciates the conversation because that is what helped him to get there !
maturity or wisdom to both sides !?
@@jean6453 he went vegan, for real???
Wow, how smug of you to say that.
He’s exactly where I used to be: he’s already a vegan but he doesn’t know it yet!
Love this ❤️🙌🏻🔥 we can relate can’t we ❤️💚
This made me actually laugh out loud! Love it!
Last time I was this early, we could still get B12 from dirty vegetables.
Hahahaha love this
😅
Good one 😂
Yeast is B12. Teaspoon 500% !!!!! And it’s natural 🦠 (hint hint 🥖🍞B12 ). Or marmite teaspoonful 480% !!!!! Duckweed B12 500% teaspoon !!!....
😂
I find this to be the most common response when I interview people.
1) I don't want animals to be abused.
2) I realize I'm paying for them to be abused.
3) It's a horrible industry
4) .......BUT....I'm not sure that I'm going to change.
I find this too! What is that?!? Fear of change or of the unknown? Fear of changing one's habits? Of suddenly being different? I just don't get it. And some of my family members are like this!!!
@@vegancolleen Definitely status quo bias and I think the misapprehension that going vegan is much harder than it actually is. Although for some people I imagine their social circle can be pretty hostile to the change.
I think because veganism is sort of a rabbit hole and people can sense that
@@ultralightcam6963 What do you mean by rabbit hole?
I think when you've gotten the acknowledgement, it's actually easy for people to change. Not going full vegan, but to go more plant-based (and this is hugely important, and it IS real progress). The last things you need to ask is: what can you do to reduce the contribution to this horrible industry? Let them start to think of reasons on their own, and they'll be more inclined to do it, and they'll think about the issue more often. Having 10 people reduce their animal product consumption by 50% is better than convincing one person to go full vegan IMO. (Ok, there are nuances to this, but as a rule of thumb, I think it's better)
If a year ago, someone told me I'm about to stop eating meat for the rest of my life, I'd probably have a panic attack. If you told me back then I'll be calling myself vegan I'd probably cringe and tell you "nope lol".
I remember buying hand lotion back in the day and I have put it back on the shelf, just because it had vegan sign on it. I wasn't some vegan hater but for some reason I didn't want to have anything to do with veganism. It's sad to see people dismiss veganism "just because" but I understand the process. I was that person, but now I can't imagine living any other way.
That’s AMAZING
I have the same story pretty much - vegan for just over a year and I went straight from eating meat / dairy very regularly (thought I needed to as I lift weights) to being vegan pretty much overnight. I used to actually avoid something like a brownie I fancied if it said vegan next to it. What the hell was my issue? I recognise myself in people I speak to now but I also understand that I just didn't get it before, and not everyone is convinced by the same argument. I researched by myself, watched documentaries and TH-camrs but definitely helped that I did it with my girlfriend - the worst part is feeling lonely with it.
i was kinda the same, although back then i had never even heard about veganism (since it wasn't that wide-spread) but i had some vegetarian classmates and when they said they are vegetarian because of animals i looked at them like i don't want anything to do with them :D
fast-forward and i became vegan for the animals
What happened to motivate you to go vegan? I'm curious because my husband is almost as you were even though every meal I cook is vegan.
@@tinaeden8317
At the time I have been watching Alex O'Connor (cosmic skeptic), I was impressed with his takes on philosophy and religion. Then I discovered his video "meat eater's case for veganism", so I watched it. There was nothing I disagreed with. For the first time in my life I realised that 7 billion people might be wrong about something.
Then I discovered Earthling Ed and documentaries like Dominion or Land of Hope and Glory. Reading Animal Liberation and watching those documentaries left me disgusted with the world. At that point there was no way not to become vegan. It wasn't something I planned or agreed to, one day I just realised I'm vegan.
What worked on me:
- discovering veganism on my own, from someone I respected, not feeling pushed into anything
- dominion
- watching "life on our planet" on netflix. If someone won't agree to watch those violent docs like "Dominion", Life on our planet can actually make a difference. It brings a new perspective on animals, makes you realise how detached we are from nature, how ignorant it is to think that humans have more rights to be on this planet than any other being. It's also just stunning to watch
- Realising absurdities of animal agriculture highlighted in Cowspiracy and Seaspiracy. It's way easier to see how our laws are dependent on apetite for meat and cheese rather than having habitable planet. Basically realising how silly we are as a species.
- Gary Yourofsky speech
This is what a grown up conversation looks like. Refreshing
I really enjoy watching the debates where the other person is responsive like this and is willing to admit when they’re wrong. I’m working on becoming vegan at the moment. It’s difficult because I live with my parents and don’t buy the groceries, but I’m doing the best I can because of what you’ve shown me.
I'm so glad you're doing the best you can, keep going girl❤️❤️ When you live alone you will be 100% vegan, stay strong!
Yes that's a great step, when you go out and buy things yourself and pick vegan options instead of animal ones is great
I was in the same situation as you! I only ate animal products at home when my parents cooked them. but whenever I bought anything for myself outside/with friends/at school, I chose the vegan option. :)
You should research reasons why you shouldn't be a vegan too. Unless you know both sides of the arguments, you really can't make an informed opinion. Even watching explicit anti-vegan video's would give you another perspective.
@@subverted6555 I think it’s funny that you assume I haven’t or that I don’t know the many arguments people make against it. I think I can handle the decision but thank you
I remember when I became a vegan, I said EXACTLY what Ed said at the end, that I felt such a disconnect between my actions and my beliefs. My partner turned to me and said “well why don’t you stop then?” I quit meat that day, quit eggs and dairy about a month later, and am continuing my journey every day to better align my actions with my beliefs. It’s so much harder, soooo much harder, but I think it’s worth it. If I died today I wouldn’t have the same regrets on my shoulders, I feel lighter and more aligned with my values.
@M. Elizabeth Scott Food can be addictive, especially when you are taught to involve certain foods in every meal throughout your life.
The convinience of not having to scrub your pans like crazy because of all the fat is a really big bonus. It's one of the perks of a plant based livestyle!
Underrated benefit
Or worried about germs on your uncooked food 🔥
@@NotTodaySatan557 It's not "germs," it's actually bacteria - salmonella, E coli, listeria, campylobacter, etc.
@@NotTodaySatan557 Literally so true. Raw cookie dough all day long.
Idk man my pans get pretty filthy from plant oil. And sadly, even our veggies and stuff can have those same bacteria - because they use animal shit as fertilizer. But yeah, tasting dough without fear is great.
What Ed said about chickens actually happened to me. I started out with a few hens as pets. People wanted eggs from us so I got more hens and ducks. It wasn’t long before health problems started showing up and I quickly was unable to keep them all healthy. Having a few hens was great though. They are fun to have around.
This guy was probably the most well-spoken out of all of Ed's opponents. No where near as infuriating as most of the idiots he debates.
clearly schooled by his girlfriend from home
this guy is dumb too hes say animals are dumb so lets eat them
Maybe Ed has been sharpening his tools on the low hanging fruit and is now moving up the tree?:)
@@vthomas375 The previous fruit were defiantly hanging very low indeed !
Nah, the Libertarian was well spoken. 🤣 So well, I couldn´t really stand to listen to him without laughing.
Always so impressed with your way of breaking down an argument and then build it back up, bringing the person along with all parts until the full argument is made and understood by the other person. Hats of to you Ed!
interesting that most people bring up ants as being lower on the intelligence level while ants are able to build complex structures, whereas most humans aren't able to, and most of the time can't build even a simple structure
That seems like an unfair comparison. No single ant can build much. Likewise no single human can build much
@@liammarshall-butler3384 ok, but even if people collaborated with each other to build something, still most people wouldn't be able to build much since most people don't have to bother to learn that, most people just hire pros to do it for them
yet ants are natural in it, or at the very least every ant is expected to gain experience in building structures
the point is, that people who justify eating animals by using intelligence, using space ships or symphonies as proof of our intelligence, they're using intelligence of handful of people and pretending it's their own or that it's the intelligence of the whole humankind
What Ed forgot to mention about the small-scale backyard hens, is that still only the female chickens lay eggs, and the male ones are useless. You'd have one rooster per dozen hens or so. And so the breeders kill the roosters as soon as they're hatched, or after 40 days as poultry.
Edit: He actually made a whole video about it: th-cam.com/video/7YFz99OT18k/w-d-xo.html
Yesss thank you
First time ever I was just a little bit disappointed with eds answers here. There were so much things to say. I first felt like, eh he is just holding back to be not as radical. But at the end I really felt that he missed something here... Other part with the intelligence of animals. Why wasnt he talking about that suffering will feel the same for a chicken or a pig..It just doesnt matter... This is coming from a Patron...
i noticed that too. there’s a big toll of their bodies when they’re forced to keep laying. plus, these flocks also serve as disease reservoirs so are a risk to public health, wildlife, and the birds themselves. amongst many other negatives
@@DominionMovementDotOrg @Tobias Toxota Yes, so much wrong with it.
I don't think he forgot. He doesn't have to play every card every time. Besides, James himself brought up the killing of male chicks.
This right here:
Antibiotic use in the animal farming industry is peak human arrogance. We are using this incredibly important medicine. Something we rely on for survival to eliminate deaths from truly preventable illnesses. We are squandering the miracle of modern medicine by keeping an animal alive just long enough so they can get to slaughter weight. ~ Earthling Ed
Here to share my thoughts for no reason at all but I just love Ed for doing all these debates in such a friendly way and I strive to be like him. My temper would probably skyrocket if I had to talk to some of the people he talks to (not this guy ofc). I've been vegan for almost a year as a 15-year-old in my meat and dairy eating family. People are always questioning me and I don't personally know any other vegans so it gets lonely. I'm proud of myself is all I can say. Having Ed's videos to binge watch for the last 2 months has really gotten me to build a good argument for myself and even be able to defend my veganism bc of course the world can't just accept it. Thank you so much for educating people Ed
I’m proud of you too! ❤️🔥🔥🫂
I appreciate his openness. His mention of vastly more intelligent aliens farming humans is SPOT-ON and rarely something a Carnist will rarely come up with on their own. Kudos to him for thinking deeper about these ethical matters more than most people do.
Really? I thought that was a common thing for people to think about and talk about even if they eat meat. Even as young kids. Not just about eating animals, but any weird human interaction with an animal you’d imagine yourself as the animal a giant superintelligent alien as the human.
Girlfriend done him dirty I can already tell
Always love the patience and kindness you bring to these conversations! I've learned so much from these debates!
i am getting better at having easier conversations :)
I think James is "that close" to becoming vegan. Good to know that so many associated issues (health, abx resistance, climate, etc.) are also becoming well understood.
I took my meat-eating brother to see Earthlings years ago. He was way more emotionally affected by it than me (because it was new to him, not to me). I remember him crying his eyes out outside the screening telling me he now understood my lifestyle choice, but that he could never change his diet. It was a puzzling moment for me.
I really appreciate these conversations and all that y’all are doing. Thanks!
When he says "I don't know" I feel like he definitely DOES know, but the dissonance holds him back. The illusion is definitely breaking though!
He's going to grow from this conversation. Knowledge is power. One thing I wish we could connect more with is the question of intelligence and where compassion comes into play. We're all just working through justifications we didn't have to articulate before because we never really had to. Good job, E. Loving your book.
INB4 *"His girlfriend asked him to fight Mike Tyson. This is how it went."*
Dude you look healthy as fuck.
I just had a Beyond Patty melt and some buffalo cauliflower chicken wings.
Some of us do it for our health,
Some do it for the animals
Some do it for the planet
Some of us do it for all of the above!
However you vegan, it’s valid ✅
He sort of gets it, the cognitive dissonance is strong you can tell he was thinking of ways to break the logical outcome so hopefully he will shift.
Cognitive dissonance the massive puzzle piece for any non vegan. However, relative to the bulk of the population, the dissonnance wasn't strong at all with him. I very much disagree with your statement and that's unfair for James to say that. He was very honest with his situation and Ed summed it up very well at the end, you can rewatch from 22:12.
@@cedb3360 No cognitive dissonance whatsoever. We're omnivores eating a species specific diet. Vegans are the weirdos trying to stuff a round peg in a square hole. The vast majority of vegans go back to eating meat for this very reason. It's not present day humans fault that our ancestors ate animals for millions of years, leaving us with digestive tracts designed to get the majority of our nutrition and calories from animal sources, any more than it is a grizzly bears fault for fishing salmon out of a river.
He posted a comment. He's given up meat, dairy, and eggs not produced in xyz manner (I can't remember.) He was clearly open to the idea of veganism, and he seems to be on his way.
his girlfriend knew that this wasn't just "a vegan", it was "THE vegan" :P
Hi
Wonderful!!!
Let's just give all animals the benefit of the doubt and just assume they're intelligent and just let them be and live their lives. I don't understand the constant need of people to have to categorise animals by percieved intelligence.
I really love this thought! You said this well and I fully agree with the sentiment.
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ electronics?
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ you’re going to need to elaborate. But also, regardless, if humans are so intelligent, we can come up with new and creative, non-harming ways to advance technology and medicine.
Were you raised vegan? If not, you've probably done it too. The idea of livestock being "dumb animals" underpins the whole practice of eating meat.
@@basbleupeaunoire No, i simply didn't think about it when i still ate meat tbh. I didn't assume animals were not intelligent. Maybe it's actually worse to not connect the dots vs. assuming that what you eat is stupid. I don't know.
How did I miss Ed being at my school😭
If we were naturally meat-eating animals that bloke wouldn't be 'grossed out' by the sight of a pig being slaughtered and slaughterhouse workers wouldn't be upset by their work. They would love it. They would look forward to going to work. That these people react in such ways is proof that we evolved to eat plants.
Humans are biological omnivores facts don’t care about your feelings
If we were herbivores we wouldn't try making greens taste better. It would simply be the best tasting food to us, BUT it's not.
No wonder, children hate veggies, we are meant to eat meat.
And please check out how dangerous harvesting cashews is. You people need to know where your food comes from and stop focusing on where meat comes from. Y'all lack info
There are tons of jobs that are morally okay, and actually do a lot of good, but the workers hate going to work--but they have to for their survival. I once heard dentists have high suicide rates.
I don’t think so. People from western civilisations are more shocked by animal slaughter because they don’t see it as often. People in more rural developing nations are less shocked by such things. People adapt to whatever their society is like.
@@melittavigh5343 I'm pretty sure you use herbs on your steak and don't just have it raw. Lol and have you ever tasted fruits before? You're going to tell me that needs seasoning? Veggies on their own is good too, wtf. Like yeah we cook veggies with spices but we also cook lentils, chickpeas ect so what's the point in "needing meat" lol. That's just protein you could get from said chickpeas. Y'all meat eaters need to learn how to eat AND research... you obviously don't know where your meat comes from with all the contamination and feces ridden antibiotic pumped food you consume.
In response to that girlfriend's boyfriend's thought on "if you're the smartest, you should take advantage" I would think that if you're smart you're at the point where you are motivated to make the world a better place for all sentient beings. This means that you have evolved into a better being that puts feelings of others before your taste buds.
There's a saying that "Intelligence is the ability to decide what's important and doing it." How many humans can actually prove their intelligence in this way, including this man? In contrast, the animals prove their intelligence in everything they do to survive and be happy. I greatly challenge the theory that it's the human species who are the most intelligent. It's simply arrogance not based on facts.
What a great interview. I wish more people could have an intellectual conversation like James can. He even repeatedly says "I don't know." It's so rare to hear that anymore.
Amazing activism, Ed!! The student’s blatant indifference to the suffering of “dumber” animals was so frustrating to watch. I really hope he’ll consider accepting and acting upon his true compassionate feelings.
Nah, he wasn't indifferent. He was reflecting on the way people (including himself) rationalize eating some animals but not others.
That's a pretty good question to ask people who eat meat: If Aliens came to Earth and they were much smarter than us, is it ok for them to farm us and eat us?
They already are farming humans but no one notices
Twilight Zone episode - 'To Serve Man'.
Aw man, please come to the Netherlands again, I missed you in Delft last time :(
Should be a guide in debate and discussion.Earthling Ed is brilliant! When he leads the conversation (rarely) he brilliantly guides people to draw their own conclusions!
You’re my hero Ed!! Thank you!! 🌱
He seemed very nice :) I sadly only get people who yell at me and say I'm stupid, then quit the conversation when they see they can't dabate my points :/
Glad this person is very open and I love you both talking respectfully and nice.
I appreciate this guys honesty. Most people retroactively form their morals based on their existing actions to avoid a sense of wrongdoing, he does not
Ed! Where did you buy your vegan jacket?
I really liked that this guy points out that the word "humane" simply means not actively causing harm... that is how our society interprets this word at least- so by labeling something "humane" simply means it was done in a way to not deliberately cause undue harm and suffering- the lowest moral bar as he says. Thank you to this guy for pointing it out!
Epic. Thank you Ed!
Hey everyone, let's also support vegan activists with small channels such as Debug Your Brain, The Juggling Vegan, Clif Grant, The Victim's Perspective, Vegan Kole, Plant Strength
They are doing an amazing job for the animals but still don't have a big platform
I'll definitely check these out, thanks for the suggestions!
thanks for the suggestions!!
Debug your Brain does amazing work. Highly recommended!
Intraspecies too and Vegan Gaze and Lifting Vegan Logic and Plant Chompers and Joey Carbstrong! Thanks for your suggestiong, i subbed them all :).
check out David Ramms - face the facts friday is good content!
I like this guy. He's honest.
Great video, thanks Ed :)
What a lovely young man ❤
Another beautiful conversation!
21:00 - 21:56 Absolutely loved that part. I really appreciate that you can recognize the widely varying degrees of harm and aren't so dogmatic about animal exploitation being wrong on the same level in any circumstance. Great point you brought about how a basically harm free system could go back to what we have today, I never thought about this.
I'm not sure if intelligence has anything to do with moral worth.
It may be the case that the more intelligent a species is, the higher it's capacity to suffer. I'm honestly not sure.
I think it's best to ask if they can suffer, not if they are intelligent, when assigning moral worth. Because intelligence is only important in so far as it affects wellbeing.
Great conversation! I learned a lot from this and I am a subscriber now because I watched your documentary and love your content 💛
I hate this, because I can't disagree.
Thank God for people like Ed 🍅🥑🍍🍞🥜🍄
i never miss one video of you Ed! Youre wonderful. Thanks so much! :)
"Practically justified"...so something is okay because the logistics are simple? I think he means it's not morally justified, but it's easy for me so I'm gonna keep doing it. I can see this guy going vegan once he reflects on this conversation.
He admits that it isn't morally justified but - for him - it's practically justified because it's convenient. By that point, he's completely proved Ed's argument: it's not morally justified
@@mrspacebaconlover1402 But vegans only exist right now because of supply chain convenience, why is that different? It wouldn't have been possible to be vegan more than 100 years ago because of that.
@@subverted6555 Your idea of what 100 years ago was like in American food seems to be way off. Yes, people could have been vegan. Unless someone was destitute in the first place, access to legumes, whole grains, fruit and veg wasn't hard. Even in climates where it was cold for a large part of the year, people ate from their cellars and canning. The difference is that almost no one even considered veganism as a possibility.
@@basbleupeaunoire Having access to all the different foods you need and supplements you need to live life as a vegan was not possible 100 years ago. You really think that 100 years ago not a person had the thought of "I don't like killing or using animal products, Im going to try to live without them"? It's because it wasn't viable. That's why veganism is largely considered an unnatural diet for humans, because for 99.99% of our history, there didn't exist veganism.
@@subverted6555 I can't think of a single thing that wasn't available then. Not one. You think vegans invented vitamins? And I don't mean tablets. I mean - what nutrients do you think exist now that didn't exist then?
This is not a debate, this is conversation :)
Great discussion! There are other issues with backyard eggs and the like, which make it not ok to take the eggs from hens.
It really comes down to aligning our moral beliefs with our behavior. Going vegan is the best way to end animal suffering. Thank you for being a voice for the animals Ed! You inspire us so much! 🌱🌞
How is going vegan going to end animal suffering...you gonna make all the animals vegan too? Lol
@@c.odubhlaoich2948 minimize animal suffering as much as possible, is that better?
@@orpheus6968 It's better, yes. But, as a hunter and one who grows their own crops, I guarantee I do a better job at that than most vegans.
@@c.odubhlaoich2948 You only shoot the elderly and impaired game right? No you don't.
@@c.odubhlaoich2948 I'd appreciate it if you could explain how you do a "better job" at that, but even if you do, hunting is not sustainable on a mass scale, and vegans absolutely *do* harm less animals than the average consumer.
and veganism is a movement and ideology that seeks to reduce animal suffering on a mass scale, but it also has the benefit of humans in mind as well, so hunting is not an alternative to factory farming.
Keeping chickens for years, we don't eat them but do appreciate any eggs not gifted to others. Chickens are unique individuals...shy, quiet, talkative, dominant, side-kicks, curious, loners, social, etc.. Of two roosters here, one is aggressive to humans (formerly abused?) and the other, hatched here, is not...they both protect the hens from predators. Their coop door being on a timer, twice the "aggressive" one was late home then directly knocked on our front door with his beak so he could go to bed...he figured that out for himself.
It was refreshing to listen to this argument: calm, open to listening to one another, and just being kind to one another
TH-cam can be really cruel at times, showing an ad for Bass Pro Shop mid-video.
You were the reason I (and my family) became vegan.
Thanks, Ed 🌱
your whole family? oh wow… really good to hear. i would love it if my whole family could have the compassion to go vegan… lol. so far it’s just excluding my parents in my immediate family; me and my 2 siblings are all vegan
Super cool discussion as always, thanks Ed!
Today is my 4 year veganniversary. If I saw Ed sitting at a table with a sign, I would love to pretend I was a meat eater and try to get him to change his mind!
Another excellent debate! Thank you Ed!
Awesome conversation/debate - and James, well done for taking an ethical stand (I saw your comment below)!
Hi Ed! ❤️ Wondering if you can provide us with the sources about mental health issues in slaughter house workers 🙏🏻 thank you
So grateful for you Ed. The movement needs you!
"Lentil curry, spaghetti bolognese, Beyond burger..." : "oh those are really good, I'd take those but if I had to choose between plants and berries in the woods, then I'd go for the cow". The guy doesn't seem to know that "lentil curry and spaghetti bolognese qualify for PLANTS"...
One conversation at a time 😁
Aside from the moral aspect, to eat meat for "health reasons" 15:56 is also debatable. 18:31 eggs are also very harmful, especially for those with heart disease.
As always, the back essence of the debate stems from the question: Do humans require animal protein to healthily thrive in life? If you think you need animal protein, you will rationalize all you can to support your conviction.
And then follows the "I like it" argument. Behind this argument lies a conviction or another: "I like it and it is good for me and not bad for the planet and animals do not feel any pain". Then there is the opposite: "I like it though I know and understand it is bad for my health, for the planet and it is a very cruel way of living because of the killing of animals".
Those are the basic positions. And all the variations in between.
People need to UNDERSTAND:
1) Animal protein is NOT good for human health.
2) Animal agriculture is destructive for the planet and needs to stop.
3) The enormous violence and cruelty exerted on food animal species is unethical and causes harm to the animals and to the humans that do the killing.
It was hard for me to switch to veganism. I was vegetarian for 7 years before switching late last year because I couldn't commit. I understand his uncertainty. If he starts by not consuming red meat and reducing white meat that's a step in the right direction as long as he keeps taking steps.
About a half year ago I started listening to vegan arguments, and I couldn't find any counterargument and went vegan.
Maybe this person will become vegan, he didn't try to come up with some illogical excuse.
@Taming The Tide No, Why would I take part in destroying the environment and torturing animals?
@Taming The Tide What are you talking about? Even IPPC says meat is causing global warming. Animal agriculture takes a lot of land, of course it's more sustainable to eat plants instead of meat and dairy.
@Taming The Tide What was your claim about exterminating animals if you don't care? It seems like you're changing the subject, or can you elaborate on that?
Thanks Ed! :)
Not everyday that you start a debate with somebody that completely agrees with your premises and conclusions. I hope this guy steps up and makes the change.
We can make a better world.
so well-spoken, luv u Ed, all the best to u mate
The effort is appreciated,
yet this perspective really needs to be constantly punching up.
Outside of some niche arguments [such as the necessity of meat protein],
the statistic on the street is at the whim of industry.
I would love to hear your thoughts on the new chicken breed that only produces female offspring (for the egg industry). If these hens were free range and well treated, theoretically how would you feel? I understand that under capitalism that’s unlikely but I think it’s an interesting question
Respect to both in the video, love Ed but this guy deserves props too
Would love for you to come to Canadian campuses. UBC, UManitoba, Waterloo, etc. Waterloo would be interesting because it's a city surrounded by farmers.
Yes! Please come to Canada. We are so far behind the U.K.
Love the outfit Ed. Looks sharp.
Great video. Really felt like this was a nice good faith conversation about a serious problem. Just wanted to point out that one of the definitions of "humane" in the oxford dictionary is literally "inflicting the minimum of pain". Compassionate and benevolence is another definition so Ed is not wrong. Neither of them are wrong with their definitions. So I don't feel it's fair for Ed to say "even if we take your subjective version of the word humane...", because that's an objectively wrong statement and paints the other person inappropriately. I'm nitpicking like a bitch but it bothered me so I felt like pointing it out.
I get my B12 from foraging :D
simply start with dandelions!
*A whole new world starts playing 🎵 *
James is so decent and open-minded. He's not that type of arrogant, conservative, Christian, trying-to-copy-Ben-Shapiro, alpha male who always interrupts the speaker and thinks that the old testament justifies animal cruelty. Love it!
Thank you Ed🙂
My neighbors bought chickens, and I thought they were gonna raise them for eggs. But they told me, in my moment of excitement, having new chicken neighbors, they were dinner.
I couldn't stop them. I didn't know what to say or do. But I have a very expressive face, and it went from pure joy to horror as they suggested I come for dinner. I told them I don't eat chickens, or any animals, or anything that comes from animals.
Then I went home, turned the music on as loud as I could, and crawled into bed. Knowing there was killing going on next door fucked me up.
They bought them locally. They killed them themselves. Still, it was a precious life that clearly brought joy.
Eating animals is fucking gross, no matter who or how they are murdered.
My daily dose of Ed making me question my sexuality.
Thanks Ed
Omg, this guy looks like a twin brother of the actor Rodrigo Santoro! From the films Love Actually and I love you Phillip Morris.
I hate humans....
Then stop breathing
Humans are the worst enemies of other humans. That's a fact.
Thanks!
I really enjoyed this one. Sometimes these interviews make my brain hurt but this one was a very intelligent discussion.
Amazing interview, I like the dynamic of how it went because there's lot of space to bring different perspectives out and discuss different type of scenarios. I'm a vegetarian myself and would love to see a vegetarian person talking to Ed cause I still feel very indecise about it. I usually try to buy from sustainable farms though, making that a priority. It's the eggs and cheese for me 😓
Watch 'Dominion(2018)' or 'Land of Hope and Glory' or even better 'Cowspiracy' (which has no graphic imagery) and investigate the processes to decide if you really want to support these industries. Ed has some cool vids on his channel too about 'The Truth about Backyard Hens' and Dairy subsidies, 'Why does fruit cost more than a cheeseburger'. Veganism is beyond food. The way in which unborn calves are cut from their mothers on the kill floor, have their hearts stabbed and the blood aspirated for the serum for use in medical research, is particularly horrific and also not that useful for research purposes, as the serum is not of a consistent quality and we are not bovine, but it is done anyway, as it is marginally cheaper than synthetic serum or using human serum. Vegan is a state of kind.
Interesting discussion, however I’d like to see them first define what they mean by morality and intelligence, since those are the two terms they appear to mention the most. Also do they, as human beings, see themselves as part of nature or apart from nature. If intelligence is a spectrum, then at what point we become “morally” excused to give ourselves permission to eat the “lesser” being, whether that’s an animal, a mushroom, or a plant?
Aligning morals with actions.. sooo close & yet so far as willful blindness continues to lead.
People under 30 say 'like' far far too much. WHY?????????????
@Anon Anon 🙄
@Anon Anon an emoji is all you're worth son, ta-ta now.
I agree. It's always good to try to reduce "like" from the vocabulary. People take you more seriously when you do.