In the description of the Winged Serpent helm, winged serpents are described as "wise friends which keep the base serpent at bay", explaining that their presence seemingly helps Messmer manage his curse. Despite the villainized role snakes have been cast as in the Lands Between, and their somewhat devilish appearance, these at least seem to be on the more amicable side.
There are occult/hermetical references to serpents containing both poisonous and medicinal sides to them. I see Messmer's serpents as the medicinal ones like the snakes on a caduceus, a prominent medical symbol and also occultic symbol which also features a spiral.
Two thoughts are brought to mind. One: was Messmer the original lord of castle stormveil? The dark serpent may have caused the holes across the castles fortifications. Two: Eyes have been a sign of the influence of two demigods-turned-something-else in the lands between, the other being Soul-Dead Godwyn. I wonder if these many eyed abominations are what the gods in the time of the Crucible were like. Primordial in nature. I'm not sure what either thought means, but it comes to mind, looking at all this.
In the cutscene if you pay attention you can notice Messmer CAN SEE ThROUGH the serpent's eye that looks at you, the serpent's eyes even reacts to his emotions and dialogue like they wereMessmer's own eyes. Messmer doesn't have a left eye and the other is a Marika's Seal, so He's blind, but seems like the serpents aren't just sliding through the holes in Messmer's body, but instead ARE PART of his Body, they share vision, and the same changes once Messmer transform in the second phase, so you can see the Serpents as extra heads of Messmer's Body, but still with their own Will, but still part of the same body.
something interesting to note, ive seen from pet snakes that have been damaged by burning (getting too close to their heat mats), their scales burn and it usually reveals a white layer, which looks very much like messmer's serpents in the second phase, which could imply their scales have been burnt or at least severely damaged
Messemer and Morgott. Two characters shunned by their lineage but both fought desperately to gain approval regardless. At least at the very end Morgott got what he sought after.
@@thebigenchilada678 Depends on what ending you take in the story. Radagon is Marika, and so long as one survives, the other does as well by proxy. In most of the endings, barring Ranni's, The Frenzied Flame's, and the Age of the Duskborn, it can be assumed that you in fact deny Radagon/Marika a true death, as every other ending results in you still utilizing their body as a catalyst and host to mend the Elden Ring. As we know in Elden Ring itself, being linked to the Erdtree facilitates the cycle of rebirth, and as far as we're concerned, Radagon/Marika is still alive, and cannot die a true death without Ranni letting the Elden Ring fade instead of mending it, thus allowing the dead to truly die instead of being in a state of undeath, the Frenzied Flame, which results in the absolute death of all things, and the lesser known "Age of the Duskborn", where the Tarnished re-adds the Rune of Death to the Elden Ring before mending it, resulting in all those linked to the Erdtree to die a true and proper death once more, instead of being stuck in undeath, like our favorite fish-man Godwyn.
That line has so much important nuance to it it drives me insane. Every pause seems important, the fact he calls her Marika, maybe suggesting the Abyssal Serpent has taken him over almost completely, or perhaps he's apologizing in a way, as if to say "a curse upon thee i have become" because shed done so much to keep him from becoming the serpent, and how could she ever forgive him now? I think about it every day.
For me, the thing that makes Messmer's story a bit more bitter, is the fact that he was *extremely* respected. He was a close friend, almost like older brother, to Radahn, one of the Carian princesses went in the Crusade *under his leadership* , and even after his men lost all hopes in Marika, they are still loyal to *him*
He's a pretty interesting foil to Miquella, as Miquella is outwardly loved, but but is deeply feared under the surface and is dead set on being beloved by using unsettling supernatural forces to compel it. Messmer, on the other hand, is outwardly hated and feared by the public both among his supporters and his enemies alike, but everyone knowing him on a more personal level seems almost unilaterally taken and convinced by him. There are people freely following him from most of the factions aligned with the Erdtree, even if that allegiance all but ensures being hated and cast out by your previous friends and allies. Now that is some genuine charisma.
The opening of his cutscene where his snake looks you dead in the eye before Messmer identifies you takes on an interesting new meaning. If Messmer’s left eye seemingly doesn’t work, and his right ‘eye’ is just a Marika Seal, then maybe Messmer is actually just completely blind, and he relies on his snake to actually see. Because the serpent is a part of him, he shares a sort of symbiotic relationship with it, to the point that whatever visual input the serpent receives, Messmer does too, so he uses the serpent AS his eyes.
Given that Mesmer'hand is burned, and the Winged snakes have a whitish-burned color as well (according to another commenter snake experince), maybe his eyes were burned out by his fire? Can't think of much more to add to the theory, but would be thematically relevant as Mesmer self sacrificed much for his Mother's love, but was cast into shadow in the end. In both cases, it's him embracing the serpent (first the winged, and then the abyssal) that grants him his vision
@@DOCTAxSWAG Marika plucked out his right eye, it says so in his Remembrance description. And there is no visible burns or any skin damage around his closed eye either, so I doubt they were burned.
@@padrenuestre oh that's right, it does say that. I thought his eyes had a burn mark around it but upon closer look they are just dramatic sulken eyes lol
@@tyhjyys There would be no hype if they didn't reveal that he existed... They even revealed him as a misdirection, leading many to believe he was the final boss. When, in reality, he was just a really important figure in the story but not the ultimate villain like many predicted. I don't think he was "spoiled" at all in that sense.
Messmer is definitely my favourite character in Elden Ring as of now. His lore is so hauntingly tragic and perfectly fits with the themes of the game. In addition, the way his lore is incorporated into his fight (similar to Lady Maria) makes you almost feel bad for him as you are fighting him.
Elden Ring really has so many great examples of the "Tortured Soul" archetype: Morgott, Maliketh, and now Messmer and Midra. Of course, many of Fromstoftware's previous games feature these kinds of characters as well. They certainly love to have bossfights where it feels more like you are performing an act of mercy by ending the suffering of these characters.
@@SilverlandgmodTV Oh I agree. Maliketh and (especially) Morgott are also great characters with similar themes and motifs to Messmer. However, I think Messmer is just one of the best executed versions of the "Tortured Soul" archetype in any of their games imo
Almost everyone is a monster in the Lands Between. Messmer doesn’t get a moral pass just because the genocide he committed was under mommy’s orders. He and Morgott, though they are compelling characters, are still terrible people lmao. They’re in positions of power, hated by their order, and yet they cling to it rather than try and make a change for the better. All because mommy said so.
there are no true monsters. it's just all hurt people in different circumstances fighting a war. as Leda puts it, "They were never saints. They were just on the losing side of a war."
@@TonyTonyRedgrave SOME* of the Hornsent. Not all. Some just lived peacefully, perhaps not even knowing what the Potentates were up to. Genocide is never justified if innocent lives are lost
Consider: there's only one other serpent in the game that we could call "kind," and that's Zorayas, who happens to share the Winged Serpent's exact colours.
Zorayas' entire quest seems like it was meant to build up to Messmer. I'm not even entirely sure what it's trying to say, but there's a lot of parallels between the two characters.
This is a great idea, since most (if not all) of players normally won't even try to look at the details because we're busy fighting for our lives :D But then, a lot of channels like Zullie will pretty much out of job.
Honestly that's one of my favorite features of older games we don't often get anymore. Defeat an enemy, get to see it in a model viewer, maybe with a lore blurb or some tips on the next encounter. I don't know.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef u·ro·bo·ros noun noun: ouroboros a circular symbol depicting a snake, or less commonly a dragon, swallowing its tail, as an emblem of wholeness or infinity.
The fact that Messmer was around for the Tarnished and Godfreys banishment but wasn’t for the Shattering because he never inherented a shard of the great rune yet still is (according to Ai dueling) on par with if not stronger than Malenia truly speaks volumes about his raw power.
I can't stop thinking about the significance of eyes in Elden Ring. -When Godwyn lost his soul and deathroot started to spread, so too did his eyes. -The way you can tell if a person has grace is by the color of their eyes. -Eyes are used as seals to either hinder or boost a characters power. -Shabriri in Jewish mythology is a demon of blindness, and in Elden Ring his "grapes" are eyes which can be consumed. It all feels so very tightly associated with the concept of souls, and eyes being the windows to the soul. But with the Abyssal Snake... their eyes... I can't figure out.
Many eyes are often used in Japanese media to represent pride or haughtiness. In Full Metal Alchemist, as a good example, the homunculus "Pride" is represented as a dark being covered in eyes
The abyssal snake fundamentally rejects the symbolicism of eyes laid Out before it, attacking the Order as it's known, and therefore needing to be sealed away to preserve Said Order.
“Waiting in the highest point of the Keep’s western tower sits Messmer himself, brooding in seclusion in a dark chamber.” Finally, a relatable character.
Messmer reminds me of the tyrant king Zahak from the persian book of kings, who had 2 serpents grow out of his sholders after being tricked and cursed by Ahriman-the zoroastrian equivilant of Satan in a sense.
Ah, yes, him. I think he appeared in 1001 Arabian Nights, as well? I recall that aside from having the snakes growing out of him, he'd grown hunched over and paranoid.
Seems likely, given ER’s mythological inspirations. I also note that Messmer has some inspirations taken from the Hindu deity Shiva, who is often depicted with a trident and a serpent.
Last Protagonist recently did a short video on the translation of the Fire Knight armor (that's Messmer's knights) and in it the Japanese is pretty clear that Messmer is a fire snake. It doesn't dance around the issue calling him serpentine or whatnot. It just says "he a snek."
Wait so while Marika's other children are semi human/anthropomorphic (malenia is semi human but cursed by rot, radahn is semi human but super huge, rykard was a semi human eaten by a serpent, MORGOTT and mogh were semi human with the omen curse, godwyn was semi human before what happened, ranni was semi human but is now a doll, godrick is semi human but completely grafted, miquela and Melina are semi human (I'm saying semi humans because they are demigods not humans like tarnished and Godfrey)) messmer is literally a snake that can assume an anthropomorphic form? Now that's peculiar
Japanese translations are only so vastly different because the language just doesn’t translate well into english. Even if it directly says “he’s a snake” it probably translates to 50 different things because Japanese, Like english, is a bastard language composed of a dozen root languages and for whatever reason their words each carry multiple different meanings.
@@nurattia3316 I could be wrong. But I am pretty sure Godrick is not Marikas child. He is a far off descendent or something like that. Thus of the golden lineage. But not her child.
1:42 I love how much Messmer looks like his youngest sister Malenia in this shot. Really reinforces the theory that Radagon may actually be his father.
It definitely makes the most sense for Radagon to be his father imo, his red hair is a big giveaway and also the fact that all of Radagon & Marika's children are cursed - Malenia with the Scarlet Rot, Miquella with eternal youth, and Messmer with the Abyssal Serpent. To me these curses always seemed like "birth defects", which are very common in cases of incest, and since Radagon and Marika are the same being, well....
@nik_santo2596 I won't call you dumb without actually knowing you first. But there isn't any single piece of in-game lore or interview confirming it. Therefore, it's a theory, no matter how good it may sound.
@@nik_santo2596Marika is radagon . So yes it is kind of obvious but there is a theory that they were initially separate beings, and combined later so that is probably what this person is referencing.
Thanks for removing the shed skin mesh! I stg if one more person says any of these snakes are white/albino ever again I'll eat my own head (also that shot where you put the seal back in his eye socket was horrifying xD)
I believe that truly, no one cursed Messmer - at least, not with malice. The whole story of Marika, Messmer, and their clashing of a family comes all from the vision of the Two Fingers - no matter what, so long as their idea prevails, they won't mind and not care what's sent out. They're as reckless as they're forethought. Marika, isn't a bad person, she's was just desperate, scared and afraid. She was entrapped, feeling to still follow a purpose, but to fight back, even as convoluted as it was. So she personified the creation of the 'heroes journey':Create steps to form a hero, in their suffering, but also the good they'll bring with it: even if it would mean harming their own son. For Marika, **Did** do good in sealing this evil, for both fear and care to use that hate in vengeance against the ones who tortured their kin, while also transforming Messmer into a concept - a monster, 'Death, Destroyer of World's', someone, to go against when the time will come. This doesn't mean that one can't, or even wont feel remorse, or hatred for being picked for such role. Alas.. This makes me ever wish we could talk to them, as much naive it might be to forgive all the pain they've done; they didn't deserve it.
@@MineSlimeTV I’d say the good in Marika’s actions lies in her establishing a kingdom and an age “glistening with life.” Though it’s true some races were subjugated through no wrongdoing of their own, there were also many innocent, powerless people who were able to find refuge or even purpose in this new kingdom, and Radagon & Rennala’s union proves that the Golden Order was at least somewhat open to accepting new or opposing ideas so long as they could get something out of the deal. Attributing the good she did to the indiscriminate genocide inflicted on an entire race, even though only a specific group of individuals of said race actually participated in the transgressions, is psychotic. Genocide is never justifiable when there are innocent lives being lost. Killing unassuming Hornsent who didn’t have anything to do with the Jar Saint rituals, made her just as bad as the Potentates who slaughtered her innocent people.
Wait a second… You’re saying the abyssal serpent has eyes inside its mouth? It has EYES ON THE INSIDE? Goddammit Miyazaki, you really can’t help yourself can you?
0:23 wait i just realized messmer might be the strongest demigod, he is the only one without a great rune, according to lore great runes boost the power of the demigods significantly, for instance malenia gains her life steal by her great rune which is an insanely OP power... Messmer has no boost and no outside assistance unlike mohg which has the help of the formless mother or godrick with his grafting all that he does is purely his power, if anything he holds back his true power in phase 1
Don't forget Promised Consort Radahn in Phase 1. He doesn't have a Great Rune there either and while it's arguable how accurately possessing Mohg's body allows him to be to his original form He absolutely smacks far harder than his rotted body or Mohg. All with no Abyssal Serpent or Outer God or Great Rune.
@dragonslayer3552 I don't disagree that Messmer is high on the power scale, but the description of malenia's great rune explicitly states it is "devoid of benediction", meaning it didn't actually giver her any power. Her healing ability is driven by her own willpower.
The coiling serpent is such a wild detail to include that basically no one would ever really notice. It's details like these that make From's art direction top notch. Great video, as always!
I wonder how the Abyssal Serpent and the Great Serpent are related to each other, or even if they are related. Maybe the Great Serpent is a sort of manifestation created by the Abyssal Serpent, the same way The Outer Will has the physical manifestations like the Two Fingers or Erdtree?
I love the continuation of the cycle threw the game series, how in some aspects Gwyndolin and Messmer are similar and cursed with snakes, an affliction to be loved by a parent only to do what you never thought you should. And for what, the love that a dead god can't give you. The story just sails into my heart, I love mesmir
There's something absolutely tragic/ sad about messmer's character, Abandoned by his mother but still loyal to her, almost to the end. He may be one of the most sad characters in all of Elden ring
"May he find solace in death"? There is no solace. The legions of thirsty Messmer fans will throng the causeways of the Shadow Keep. The cries of "I can fix him" will haunt him in his sleep. Which - as one of those people - I will be amongst the crowd.
I think Messmer's curse is due to his origins. He is a product of circular causation, meaning Marika being both his parents. Think of the twins, Miquella and Malenia, both cursed, like Messmer. Circular causation is always sinful for a created being. Some other typical sins like this are in*est or ca*nibalization.
Tf you mean, Marika shattered the Elden Ring to expose the Elden beast, it was 7 dimensional chess and she won through sacrificing herself and her children, I swear to God y'all darksoulsians never get it do you😮 the bosses are the good guys and the protag is the villain
@@Michael-cb3uwvillain for who? Every souls game and er too presents to you some dying decomposing world, that you can revive, continue or destroy. You can't really be a villain when everyone is already dead or in suffering worse than death.
I really think the Abyssal Serpent- or at least whatever forces influence it, could really be another outer god. If we look at the numerous large snake models in Messmer’s fight, we see they are COVERED in eyes- and more importantly, filled with them on the inside. Anyone’s who has played Bloodborne will know that that is a big hallmark of ‘Divinity’, in a twisted way.
Most of his life was spent in following his Mother's Will, Directing The Maledictions, The Ire and Grief towards himself, Despising his own Fire yet utilizing it for Murder in a War that could never be put to song. Despite knowing deep down that his Mother abandoned him, he still feels the need to apologize for having to Release the base serpent by destroying The seal of Grace, arguably the only remaining thing he was ever gifted by her or that's still left Atleast he accepted at the very end that Marika did not care for him in the end, cursing her with his last words much like many of the Hornsent did and still do to this day
Basically there's a tiny little parasite in him (abyssal serpent) that feeds on his flame and has a lot of power. Like the bug in the bed of chaos from ds1.
I did not notice that the main giant snake in that fight had hair or multiple eyes. These games always have so many things I would never notice if not for your vids. Thanks!
Messmer: Feared and reviled, but only did his duty as commanded by his goddess mother. And all things considered, was respected and held in high regard by his comrades-- the people who REALLY knew him. Miquella: Loved and revered, but the true nature of his power is overwhelmingly terrifying. A true monster who has the power and the means to get what he wants, whether you're on board or not. If he manages to subdue you, you wholeheartedly beleive that what he wants is what you want. Some fucking S+ storytelling and world-building here.
i mean its still pretty murky to say which one is "worse". Duty or not, Messmer straight up genocides people, theres not "but" that can save that. And while Miquella is perhaps more sinister in his ideology, none of his actual actions ever caused near as much suffering and death as Messmer did.
Miquella was loved out of charm, Messmer was loved out of loyalty, or even pity. Gaius, Andreas, Huw, Hilde, Radahn and Rellana were all for Messmer, and despite Andreas and Huw abandoning him because of a conjecture, and Radahn ending up in his sorry state, Messmer seemed to be loved. It's a shame that the only one who he truly cared for the most, Marika, ended up leaving him behind. I subscribe to the theory that Marika did love Messmer, but was forced by the Golden Order and Metyr's bullshit improv to leave him behind.
His seal is in the shape of the crucified people of the lands between that scream endlessly at night. They too show similar burn marks as messimer after he breaks his seal
Congratulations, you're in the same boat as everyone else, because there's loads of shit the game just never clearly explains, either directly or indirectly. All we know is that snakes are associated with treachery and are considered enemies of the Erdtree, which is an obvious direct lift from real life mythology and symbolism, but that gives no explanation as to why they have that meaning in ER's world.
There is not a single story created by mankind where snakes aren't the origin or incarnation of evil. So I would assume snakes in elden ring are a perceived as the original evil
Snakes, according to Rykard lore, were enemies of the erdtree. And according to the lore of the Serpent-God's Curved Sword: "Curved sword fashioned in the image of an ancient serpent deity and tool of a forgotten religion practiced on Mt. Gelmir. Formerly used to offer up sacrifices" ...I suppose that the abyss serpent was a deity similar to that of Mount Gelmir, whom Marika imprisoned in Messmer so that she could impose her Golden Order.
@@garurumon1203 or it claimed an Empyrean child as it's host out from under the Greater Will's nose, like the other 4 outer beings did? SotE lore implies Marika hid Messmer within the Shadow for his own safety, quite possibly from the GW itself.
Maybe Tanith's story mirrors that of early Marika's where, like Tanith rebelling against the greater will by seeking power through the serpent, Marika rebelled against the Hornsent by mingling with it as well. One was once a dancer, the other of a similarly humble vocation before their ascendance.
I really thought I was going to learn more about what exactly the Abyssal Serpent was when I got to the Abyssal Woods, but no. I guess the names are purely coincidental? Unless Messmer's flame has some connection to the Frenzied Flame, but I doubt it.
I think a lot of stuff in both english and jap translation also describe the greater will as being associated with an "abyss" or a "void." They just dont have many words for big lightless things, unfortunately
I do wish we had gotten more of Messmer, I get the feeling that he was supposed to be the final boss of the first DLC and Radahn of the second, and because they were joined together we don't get the climatic feeling of beating him
Zullie you truly bring so much atmosphere and life to these worlds! I've never had the courage or determination (or wallet, sadly) to dive into any of them, but watching your content really makes me feel like I get to experience a really beautiful creation that I otherwise wouldn't have access to or understand. Thank you so much!
3:30 DLC Story trailer, this part kinda looks like the area that the golden strands were taken from but without the stitching maybe it was a serpent all along but i could be reaching for a possible answer that could be completely wrong
I understood Messmer as having initially only his curse of fire inside him and trying to somehow "use" the serpent to devour it to be rid of it. The item descriptions seem topoint towards that and it would fit with the theme of big serpents being able to devour impossible things.
I think there could be an interesting parallel drawn between the eye that Marika granted Messmer and the Iris of Grace items that you can find in the game.
From Software reigns supreme, it almost sits alone in terms of art direction, details and design with so much meaning behind, every little aspect. The characters models tell a story within itselfs. Since Artorias with his destroyed left hand. And on top of that the quality of the art direction.
@@rafsandomierz5313 Yeah Radagon is unbeatable for me he's so fucking sexy. But Messmer isn't bad either. Consort Radahn too. Wish we'd have seen better depictions of Rykard pre-snek eating, and Ranni pre death. All the red heads in this game, damn
Fromsoft is known to not do additional work that will not be seen. Rellana doesn't even have a head, for example. I find it strange that they decided to do model work for the holes for the snakes to emerge, just to cover it with his armor, never to be seen without tools. They either went the extra mile knowing that people would find this detail or something happened to keep his armor even though it was originally designed to be removed. This isn't a small detail about his character. Sure you get a glimpse into his eye socket in the cutscene but that is far from cementing his affliction as having the snakes LITERALLY come out of his body. It's a shame these character details are not more accessible for the average player who probably thought that messmer is just accompanied by those snakes.
Wonder if Rykard was trying to invoke the same serpent god or creature that afflicted Messmer but in a more profane way compared to Messmer, who was naturally afflicted by the abyssal serpent
My head canon is Marika used him to seal away the serpent, not that he was born afflicted with it. Rhykard states a serpent may never die, so this is how she chose to control it. Being a child of Marika he would have slowly melded with it. The eyes are interesting, as we see the same features with Godfrey body as well, the roots flowing from him also sharing very similar eyes. Who the snake was before being sealed within him is also a source of interesting speculation, some believe the gloam eyed queen to have actually been a snake. Perhaps one of her children, but just another mystery we will most likely never have answers to.
In the description of the Winged Serpent helm, winged serpents are described as "wise friends which keep the base serpent at bay", explaining that their presence seemingly helps Messmer manage his curse. Despite the villainized role snakes have been cast as in the Lands Between, and their somewhat devilish appearance, these at least seem to be on the more amicable side.
Wonder if that Motif is similar to the reason they gave Darkstalker Kaathe's statues, in the Ringed City in DS3, small angelic wings.
There are occult/hermetical references to serpents containing both poisonous and medicinal sides to them. I see Messmer's serpents as the medicinal ones like the snakes on a caduceus, a prominent medical symbol and also occultic symbol which also features a spiral.
They are the good boys. Grotesque but still great pets.
Two thoughts are brought to mind. One: was Messmer the original lord of castle stormveil? The dark serpent may have caused the holes across the castles fortifications. Two: Eyes have been a sign of the influence of two demigods-turned-something-else in the lands between, the other being Soul-Dead Godwyn. I wonder if these many eyed abominations are what the gods in the time of the Crucible were like. Primordial in nature.
I'm not sure what either thought means, but it comes to mind, looking at all this.
I wonder if the two snakes protruding from his shoulders is a reference to the story of Zahak, the Serpent King
“Brooding alone in a dark chamber” this describes 95% of From Soft bosses lol
Then there's Gwyndolin, who attempts to subvert the trope by brooding in a brightly-lit chamber
Describes the way I was for a while too...
@@davidhong1934Miquella and his chamber are also bright enough.
Er is pretty bright and outdoors, dark souls... is dark.
And the last 5% are brooding in pairs or more!
Bold of you to assume I noticed any of those snake details while he was giving me the Vlad special.
Damn. Have an "Oof," my dude. That is not what I call a fun experience.
Ah yes, his namesake.
I think you mean the "18" of Messmer."
Messmer : Are you Turk I mean Hornsent ?
Player : What's the difference ?
Messmer : None for me actually, you're getting the Tepes special.
@@IcyLucario
Yeah... Hard pass on that. I like my GI tract just the way it is, completely unmolested.
In the cutscene if you pay attention you can notice Messmer CAN SEE ThROUGH the serpent's eye that looks at you, the serpent's eyes even reacts to his emotions and dialogue like they wereMessmer's own eyes.
Messmer doesn't have a left eye and the other is a Marika's Seal, so He's blind, but seems like the serpents aren't just sliding through the holes in Messmer's body, but instead ARE PART of his Body, they share vision, and the same changes once Messmer transform in the second phase, so you can see the Serpents as extra heads of Messmer's Body, but still with their own Will, but still part of the same body.
kinda like how an octopus's tentacles are semi-autonomous
@@jeeBisOkayKinda like my own tentacle semi automatic 😂
"Thour't Tarnished, it seemeth..." which is only evident if you look in a Tarnished's eyes. Such a cool detail.
We can see *TOGETHAAAA*
One of them also turns around to watch the tarnished whilst Messmer talks to the Marika statue.
something interesting to note, ive seen from pet snakes that have been damaged by burning (getting too close to their heat mats), their scales burn and it usually reveals a white layer, which looks very much like messmer's serpents in the second phase, which could imply their scales have been burnt or at least severely damaged
This!!
Does shedding fix the issue
@@krystalneko4094 no, its usually burnt pretty deep in, it's not just the scales discolouring, apologies for wording the comment weird
@@thunderryu0494 you must be fun at parties
@@crosscutcobrarei ayanami
The guy sounds fed up with life when you enter his chamber. Arguably one of the most tragic characters in the game.
Makes it more tragic that he only realizes his position in the story when he dies, cursing the woman who put him there, his own mother.
@@windrider2190 Relatable.
@@windrider2190 Parents often are the ones who mess you up the most so it checks out
@@windrider2190Messmer has mommy issues, I have mommy issues fr I think Miyazaki obtained inspiration from me
Messemer and Morgott. Two characters shunned by their lineage but both fought desperately to gain approval regardless. At least at the very end Morgott got what he sought after.
2:20 Messmer's snakes Z-posing to assert dominance.
Insane muscular endurance flex
The parallel universe version of T-posing
Kinda hard to T pose when you have no limbs, so they need to get creative.
Holy smokes- I did NOT realize that we were able to see the abyssal serpent more clearly, and the details on Messmer’s snake form are insane!!!
"Mother Marika a curse upon you." The fact he uses his last breath to curse the person he enacted a genocide for hits really hard.
A curse directed a dead woman.
@@thebigenchilada678not really dead nor alive, but a secret third thing
@@diegocassola1 she’s dead.
@@thebigenchilada678 Depends on what ending you take in the story. Radagon is Marika, and so long as one survives, the other does as well by proxy. In most of the endings, barring Ranni's, The Frenzied Flame's, and the Age of the Duskborn, it can be assumed that you in fact deny Radagon/Marika a true death, as every other ending results in you still utilizing their body as a catalyst and host to mend the Elden Ring. As we know in Elden Ring itself, being linked to the Erdtree facilitates the cycle of rebirth, and as far as we're concerned, Radagon/Marika is still alive, and cannot die a true death without Ranni letting the Elden Ring fade instead of mending it, thus allowing the dead to truly die instead of being in a state of undeath, the Frenzied Flame, which results in the absolute death of all things, and the lesser known "Age of the Duskborn", where the Tarnished re-adds the Rune of Death to the Elden Ring before mending it, resulting in all those linked to the Erdtree to die a true and proper death once more, instead of being stuck in undeath, like our favorite fish-man Godwyn.
That line has so much important nuance to it it drives me insane. Every pause seems important, the fact he calls her Marika, maybe suggesting the Abyssal Serpent has taken him over almost completely, or perhaps he's apologizing in a way, as if to say "a curse upon thee i have become" because shed done so much to keep him from becoming the serpent, and how could she ever forgive him now? I think about it every day.
His voice actor deserves all recognition.
The amount of self-hatred he managed to convey with such few lines is astounding.
For me, the thing that makes Messmer's story a bit more bitter, is the fact that he was *extremely* respected. He was a close friend, almost like older brother, to Radahn, one of the Carian princesses went in the Crusade *under his leadership* , and even after his men lost all hopes in Marika, they are still loyal to *him*
Had circumstances been different, he could’ve been as widely beloved and renowned on the same level as Godwyn and Radahn!
He's a pretty interesting foil to Miquella, as Miquella is outwardly loved, but but is deeply feared under the surface and is dead set on being beloved by using unsettling supernatural forces to compel it. Messmer, on the other hand, is outwardly hated and feared by the public both among his supporters and his enemies alike, but everyone knowing him on a more personal level seems almost unilaterally taken and convinced by him. There are people freely following him from most of the factions aligned with the Erdtree, even if that allegiance all but ensures being hated and cast out by your previous friends and allies. Now that is some genuine charisma.
"Thou art tarnished, it seemeth" he says, looking you straight in the eyes via snake, witnessing the lack of the grace of gold.
The opening of his cutscene where his snake looks you dead in the eye before Messmer identifies you takes on an interesting new meaning.
If Messmer’s left eye seemingly doesn’t work, and his right ‘eye’ is just a Marika Seal, then maybe Messmer is actually just completely blind, and he relies on his snake to actually see.
Because the serpent is a part of him, he shares a sort of symbiotic relationship with it, to the point that whatever visual input the serpent receives, Messmer does too, so he uses the serpent AS his eyes.
Its his seeing-eye snake
Given that Mesmer'hand is burned, and the Winged snakes have a whitish-burned color as well (according to another commenter snake experince), maybe his eyes were burned out by his fire? Can't think of much more to add to the theory, but would be thematically relevant as Mesmer self sacrificed much for his Mother's love, but was cast into shadow in the end. In both cases, it's him embracing the serpent (first the winged, and then the abyssal) that grants him his vision
@@DOCTAxSWAG Marika plucked out his right eye, it says so in his Remembrance description. And there is no visible burns or any skin damage around his closed eye either, so I doubt they were burned.
@@padrenuestre oh that's right, it does say that. I thought his eyes had a burn mark around it but upon closer look they are just dramatic sulken eyes lol
I know I'm splitting hairs and we're talking about a magical demigod, but snakes have terrible eyesight
Messmer is my favorite fromsoft boss, the fight, moveset, cutscene, lore, mechanics, buildup and hype, everything was perfect
if only he wasn't spoiled by trailers
I agree. Fighting Messmer felt like a dance to me, one that is hard to learn but a very satisfying one to perform.
Hahah the trailers only added to the build up tbh @@tyhjyys
@@tyhjyys There would be no hype if they didn't reveal that he existed... They even revealed him as a misdirection, leading many to believe he was the final boss. When, in reality, he was just a really important figure in the story but not the ultimate villain like many predicted. I don't think he was "spoiled" at all in that sense.
Ludwig is better
Messmer is definitely my favourite character in Elden Ring as of now. His lore is so hauntingly tragic and perfectly fits with the themes of the game. In addition, the way his lore is incorporated into his fight (similar to Lady Maria) makes you almost feel bad for him as you are fighting him.
Elden Ring really has so many great examples of the "Tortured Soul" archetype: Morgott, Maliketh, and now Messmer and Midra. Of course, many of Fromstoftware's previous games feature these kinds of characters as well. They certainly love to have bossfights where it feels more like you are performing an act of mercy by ending the suffering of these characters.
@@SilverlandgmodTV Oh I agree. Maliketh and (especially) Morgott are also great characters with similar themes and motifs to Messmer. However, I think Messmer is just one of the best executed versions of the "Tortured Soul" archetype in any of their games imo
Is Maria's fire blood a vileblood thing?
@@SilverlandgmodTV Never forget Gael
@@zaidlacksalastname4905 yes, she's drawing upon her heritage to try and defeat you, something she never did in life.
My experience with Elden Ring.
Playing the game:
"That was a cool boss fight against a monster!"
After a lore video:
"...I'm the monster!"
Almost everyone is a monster in the Lands Between. Messmer doesn’t get a moral pass just because the genocide he committed was under mommy’s orders. He and Morgott, though they are compelling characters, are still terrible people lmao. They’re in positions of power, hated by their order, and yet they cling to it rather than try and make a change for the better. All because mommy said so.
there are no true monsters. it's just all hurt people in different circumstances fighting a war.
as Leda puts it, "They were never saints. They were just on the losing side of a war."
@@LeggoMyGekko The hornsent were no better. They were probably significantly worse.
@@TonyTonyRedgrave SOME* of the Hornsent. Not all. Some just lived peacefully, perhaps not even knowing what the Potentates were up to. Genocide is never justified if innocent lives are lost
Consider: there's only one other serpent in the game that we could call "kind," and that's Zorayas, who happens to share the Winged Serpent's exact colours.
Zorayas' entire quest seems like it was meant to build up to Messmer. I'm not even entirely sure what it's trying to say, but there's a lot of parallels between the two characters.
??????????????
who?
@@tyrant102volcano manor, the girl called Rya. You can find her first in Liurnia, near the prawn shack. Otherwise, she’ll be at Volcano Manor.
@@kitdragonflight o I never finished her quest no wonder Idk lol
@ no worries! I like helping her cause she’s nice, and it has a “decent” ending option…
I didnt know the big snakes had eyes in his mouth! Dang, From Soft need to grace us with a model section to look at all the characters to examine.
This is a great idea, since most (if not all) of players normally won't even try to look at the details because we're busy fighting for our lives :D
But then, a lot of channels like Zullie will pretty much out of job.
Honestly that's one of my favorite features of older games we don't often get anymore. Defeat an enemy, get to see it in a model viewer, maybe with a lore blurb or some tips on the next encounter. I don't know.
the coil of snakes take me back to the serpents in yharnam's forbidden woods
Would that make Romina Rom, since after we kill her we gain access to the spiral rise/Yarharghul?
underrated comment
The general theme of an inner serpent emerging from the body is reminiscent of Fromsoftware's old works. It's a theme that keeps on repeating.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef
u·ro·bo·ros
noun
noun: ouroboros
a circular symbol depicting a snake, or less commonly a dragon, swallowing its tail, as an emblem of wholeness or infinity.
The fact that Messmer was around for the Tarnished and Godfreys banishment but wasn’t for the Shattering because he never inherented a shard of the great rune yet still is (according to Ai dueling) on par with if not stronger than Malenia truly speaks volumes about his raw power.
I can't stop thinking about the significance of eyes in Elden Ring.
-When Godwyn lost his soul and deathroot started to spread, so too did his eyes.
-The way you can tell if a person has grace is by the color of their eyes.
-Eyes are used as seals to either hinder or boost a characters power.
-Shabriri in Jewish mythology is a demon of blindness, and in Elden Ring his "grapes" are eyes which can be consumed.
It all feels so very tightly associated with the concept of souls, and eyes being the windows to the soul. But with the Abyssal Snake... their eyes... I can't figure out.
Ansbach also has some dialogue about the eyes and empyreans
Metyr also has a single eye in the center of her "head's" fingerprint
Many eyes are often used in Japanese media to represent pride or haughtiness.
In Full Metal Alchemist, as a good example, the homunculus "Pride" is represented as a dark being covered in eyes
@@victoriousf.i.g.3311 Let’s not forget about King Bradley, who is the Homunculus Wrath, has one of his eyes actually *being* the Mark of Ouroboros.
The abyssal snake fundamentally rejects the symbolicism of eyes laid Out before it, attacking the Order as it's known, and therefore needing to be sealed away to preserve Said Order.
Messmer cemented himself as the best Elden ring boss and a spot at the best bosses table with Issin and Gale (the ivory king is up there for me too)
“Waiting in the highest point of the Keep’s western tower sits Messmer himself, brooding in seclusion in a dark chamber.”
Finally, a relatable character.
Messmer reminds me of the tyrant king Zahak from the persian book of kings, who had 2 serpents grow out of his sholders after being tricked and cursed by Ahriman-the zoroastrian equivilant of Satan in a sense.
Ah, yes, him. I think he appeared in 1001 Arabian Nights, as well? I recall that aside from having the snakes growing out of him, he'd grown hunched over and paranoid.
Seems likely, given ER’s mythological inspirations. I also note that Messmer has some inspirations taken from the Hindu deity Shiva, who is often depicted with a trident and a serpent.
Last Protagonist recently did a short video on the translation of the Fire Knight armor (that's Messmer's knights) and in it the Japanese is pretty clear that Messmer is a fire snake. It doesn't dance around the issue calling him serpentine or whatnot. It just says "he a snek."
Rya: Hawt. And I don't mean the flames.
Wait so while Marika's other children are semi human/anthropomorphic (malenia is semi human but cursed by rot, radahn is semi human but super huge, rykard was a semi human eaten by a serpent, MORGOTT and mogh were semi human with the omen curse, godwyn was semi human before what happened, ranni was semi human but is now a doll, godrick is semi human but completely grafted, miquela and Melina are semi human (I'm saying semi humans because they are demigods not humans like tarnished and Godfrey)) messmer is literally a snake that can assume an anthropomorphic form? Now that's peculiar
"He a snek boi" confirmed
Japanese translations are only so vastly different because the language just doesn’t translate well into english.
Even if it directly says “he’s a snake” it probably translates to 50 different things because Japanese, Like english, is a bastard language composed of a dozen root languages and for whatever reason their words each carry multiple different meanings.
@@nurattia3316 I could be wrong. But I am pretty sure Godrick is not Marikas child. He is a far off descendent or something like that. Thus of the golden lineage. But not her child.
His theme is definitely one of the best in the DLC, especially in phase 2
1:42 I love how much Messmer looks like his youngest sister Malenia in this shot. Really reinforces the theory that Radagon may actually be his father.
It definitely makes the most sense for Radagon to be his father imo, his red hair is a big giveaway and also the fact that all of Radagon & Marika's children are cursed - Malenia with the Scarlet Rot, Miquella with eternal youth, and Messmer with the Abyssal Serpent. To me these curses always seemed like "birth defects", which are very common in cases of incest, and since Radagon and Marika are the same being, well....
Wait is it really a theory?? Wasn't it obvious from the start? Or am I dumb?
His OST is very similar to Radagon's OST,its very clear he is a child of Radagon.
@nik_santo2596 I won't call you dumb without actually knowing you first. But there isn't any single piece of in-game lore or interview confirming it.
Therefore, it's a theory, no matter how good it may sound.
@@nik_santo2596Marika is radagon . So yes it is kind of obvious but there is a theory that they were initially separate beings, and combined later so that is probably what this person is referencing.
MONGREL INTRUDER
Thanks for removing the shed skin mesh! I stg if one more person says any of these snakes are white/albino ever again I'll eat my own head
(also that shot where you put the seal back in his eye socket was horrifying xD)
The snakes are white/albino 😈 I’ll be expecting a livestream link
Whoever cursed Marika's son "hey I heard you didn't like snakes, so I put snakes in your snake, so your son is all snakes."
Lol
Rykard: so... I heard there was a sale on snakes?
@@davidhong1934Tanith's friend : Girl, don't trust that guy, he's a SNAKE!
Tanith : Jokes on you, I'm into that shit
I believe that truly, no one cursed Messmer - at least, not with malice.
The whole story of Marika, Messmer, and their clashing of a family comes all from the vision of the Two Fingers - no matter what, so long as their idea prevails, they won't mind and not care what's sent out. They're as reckless as they're forethought.
Marika, isn't a bad person, she's was just desperate, scared and afraid. She was entrapped, feeling to still follow a purpose, but to fight back, even as convoluted as it was.
So she personified the creation of the 'heroes journey':Create steps to form a hero, in their suffering, but also the good they'll bring with it: even if it would mean harming their own son.
For Marika, **Did** do good in sealing this evil, for both fear and care to use that hate in vengeance against the ones who tortured their kin, while also transforming Messmer into a concept - a monster, 'Death, Destroyer of World's', someone, to go against when the time will come.
This doesn't mean that one can't, or even wont feel remorse, or hatred for being picked for such role.
Alas.. This makes me ever wish we could talk to them, as much naive it might be to forgive all the pain they've done; they didn't deserve it.
@@MineSlimeTV I’d say the good in Marika’s actions lies in her establishing a kingdom and an age “glistening with life.” Though it’s true some races were subjugated through no wrongdoing of their own, there were also many innocent, powerless people who were able to find refuge or even purpose in this new kingdom, and Radagon & Rennala’s union proves that the Golden Order was at least somewhat open to accepting new or opposing ideas so long as they could get something out of the deal.
Attributing the good she did to the indiscriminate genocide inflicted on an entire race, even though only a specific group of individuals of said race actually participated in the transgressions, is psychotic. Genocide is never justifiable when there are innocent lives being lost. Killing unassuming Hornsent who didn’t have anything to do with the Jar Saint rituals, made her just as bad as the Potentates who slaughtered her innocent people.
Damn Zullie, the shot at 1:14 is excellent
looks like a kindred of rot in the shadow realm when you found them injured.
Wait a second…
You’re saying the abyssal serpent has eyes inside its mouth?
It has EYES ON THE INSIDE?
Goddammit Miyazaki, you really can’t help yourself can you?
Bloodborne PC port confirmed???
Manus and the Moon Presence adopted the other Great Serpent from Sekiro.
"Grant us eyes" said the serpent, and so Miyazaki did
It's like poetry, they rime
We fearing the old blood with this one bois!
It’s always a good day when we get a video from Zullie
If I had a nickel for every depressed loner in a souls game, I’d be rich.
Takes one to know one
@@XDarkGreyX damn
4:01 NGL, very creepy look with him in phase 2 with the glass eye still there.
Messmer is such a flawlessly designed character in all aspects. Well done, From. Best boss of the DLC.
Dude's a Rykard from Wish, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
@@nexarathThese are typical fromsoft soyboys lmao every new boss is somehow flawless for them😂
@nexarath He's amazing regardless, especially when you consider that he's likely the reason for rykards' infatuation.
@@JustKelso1993this is true😂😂
0:23 wait i just realized messmer might be the strongest demigod, he is the only one without a great rune, according to lore great runes boost the power of the demigods significantly, for instance malenia gains her life steal by her great rune which is an insanely OP power... Messmer has no boost and no outside assistance unlike mohg which has the help of the formless mother or godrick with his grafting all that he does is purely his power, if anything he holds back his true power in phase 1
True
He has the abyssal serpent and Messmer's Flame, so he's actually backed up by two gimmicks.
Don't forget Promised Consort Radahn in Phase 1. He doesn't have a Great Rune there either and while it's arguable how accurately possessing Mohg's body allows him to be to his original form
He absolutely smacks far harder than his rotted body or Mohg. All with no Abyssal Serpent or Outer God or Great Rune.
@dragonslayer3552 I don't disagree that Messmer is high on the power scale, but the description of malenia's great rune explicitly states it is "devoid of benediction", meaning it didn't actually giver her any power. Her healing ability is driven by her own willpower.
Let's look at Melina's great rune
It’s crazy how many details they gave this when it’s moving so fast and you can barely see it
The coiling serpent is such a wild detail to include that basically no one would ever really notice. It's details like these that make From's art direction top notch.
Great video, as always!
There are longform lore videos out there less informative than what you show us in 4 minutes, and from all angles. Thanks so much!
I wonder how the Abyssal Serpent and the Great Serpent are related to each other, or even if they are related. Maybe the Great Serpent is a sort of manifestation created by the Abyssal Serpent, the same way The Outer Will has the physical manifestations like the Two Fingers or Erdtree?
I love the continuation of the cycle threw the game series, how in some aspects Gwyndolin and Messmer are similar and cursed with snakes, an affliction to be loved by a parent only to do what you never thought you should. And for what, the love that a dead god can't give you.
The story just sails into my heart, I love mesmir
and they both had a moonlight knightess by their side
Messmer and Morgott were Marika's most loyal sons but they were ironically the most mistreated of them yet they cling to duty.
There's something absolutely tragic/ sad about messmer's character,
Abandoned by his mother but still loyal to her, almost to the end. He may be one of the most sad characters in all of Elden ring
It definitely gives off the vibes that Messmer’s flesh was shedding off of him in his second phase.🐱
"May he find solace in death"?
There is no solace. The legions of thirsty Messmer fans will throng the causeways of the Shadow Keep. The cries of "I can fix him" will haunt him in his sleep.
Which - as one of those people - I will be amongst the crowd.
There are dozens of you! Dozens!
I would poke fun, but I'm the same way with Malenia. My gay ass is like "i can cure her, i can cure her!"
@@gakulon Make sure you got the healing incantations and divine chemotherapy ready.
@@everlastingdragon4520 Flame will Cleanse Me of any Rot but not of my gay 😤
@@gakulon I meant for Malenia...
Man, now I need live wallpaper of the serpent's coils with all those glowing red eyes. It's so pretty.
I think Messmer's curse is due to his origins. He is a product of circular causation, meaning Marika being both his parents. Think of the twins, Miquella and Malenia, both cursed, like Messmer.
Circular causation is always sinful for a created being. Some other typical sins like this are in*est or ca*nibalization.
I think its safe to say that nothing Marika did was for her children
Marika's children were tools for her to use
Man all this sad stuff, Why can't they make a happy ending for once? I think Sekiro Return ending is the best FS ever did in terms of happiness
Tf you mean, Marika shattered the Elden Ring to expose the Elden beast, it was 7 dimensional chess and she won through sacrificing herself and her children, I swear to God y'all darksoulsians never get it do you😮 the bosses are the good guys and the protag is the villain
@@priyanshumaurya007Frenzied Flame ending is the best ending, no more crazy bullshit.
@@Michael-cb3uwvillain for who? Every souls game and er too presents to you some dying decomposing world, that you can revive, continue or destroy. You can't really be a villain when everyone is already dead or in suffering worse than death.
I really think the Abyssal Serpent- or at least whatever forces influence it, could really be another outer god. If we look at the numerous large snake models in Messmer’s fight, we see they are COVERED in eyes- and more importantly, filled with them on the inside. Anyone’s who has played Bloodborne will know that that is a big hallmark of ‘Divinity’, in a twisted way.
Most of his life was spent in following his Mother's Will, Directing The Maledictions, The Ire and Grief towards himself, Despising his own Fire yet utilizing it for Murder in a War that could never be put to song. Despite knowing deep down that his Mother abandoned him, he still feels the need to apologize for having to Release the base serpent by destroying The seal of Grace, arguably the only remaining thing he was ever gifted by her or that's still left
Atleast he accepted at the very end that Marika did not care for him in the end, cursing her with his last words much like many of the Hornsent did and still do to this day
It always amazes me how much detail FromSoft put into their character designs
"So much detail" and the model looks straight out a unfinished PS3 game lmao
Messmer fell victim to not two, but three curses. His flames, the serpent, and his own mother…
Basically there's a tiny little parasite in him (abyssal serpent) that feeds on his flame and has a lot of power.
Like the bug in the bed of chaos from ds1.
I did not notice that the main giant snake in that fight had hair or multiple eyes. These games always have so many things I would never notice if not for your vids. Thanks!
Messmer: Feared and reviled, but only did his duty as commanded by his goddess mother. And all things considered, was respected and held in high regard by his comrades-- the people who REALLY knew him.
Miquella: Loved and revered, but the true nature of his power is overwhelmingly terrifying. A true monster who has the power and the means to get what he wants, whether you're on board or not. If he manages to subdue you, you wholeheartedly beleive that what he wants is what you want.
Some fucking S+ storytelling and world-building here.
Exactly!! was so surprised when messmer was quite a kind and thoughtful leader as opposed to miquella
meh its ok
i mean its still pretty murky to say which one is "worse". Duty or not, Messmer straight up genocides people, theres not "but" that can save that. And while Miquella is perhaps more sinister in his ideology, none of his actual actions ever caused near as much suffering and death as Messmer did.
Miquella was loved out of charm, Messmer was loved out of loyalty, or even pity.
Gaius, Andreas, Huw, Hilde, Radahn and Rellana were all for Messmer, and despite Andreas and Huw abandoning him because of a conjecture, and Radahn ending up in his sorry state, Messmer seemed to be loved. It's a shame that the only one who he truly cared for the most, Marika, ended up leaving him behind.
I subscribe to the theory that Marika did love Messmer, but was forced by the Golden Order and Metyr's bullshit improv to leave him behind.
His seal is in the shape of the crucified people of the lands between that scream endlessly at night.
They too show similar burn marks as messimer after he breaks his seal
I still don't understand where serpents fit into the mythology and history of the world.
Congratulations, you're in the same boat as everyone else, because there's loads of shit the game just never clearly explains, either directly or indirectly. All we know is that snakes are associated with treachery and are considered enemies of the Erdtree, which is an obvious direct lift from real life mythology and symbolism, but that gives no explanation as to why they have that meaning in ER's world.
There is not a single story created by mankind where snakes aren't the origin or incarnation of evil. So I would assume snakes in elden ring are a perceived as the original evil
Snakes, according to Rykard lore, were enemies of the erdtree. And according to the lore of the Serpent-God's Curved Sword:
"Curved sword fashioned in the image of an ancient serpent deity and tool of a forgotten religion practiced on Mt. Gelmir.
Formerly used to offer up sacrifices"
...I suppose that the abyss serpent was a deity similar to that of Mount Gelmir, whom Marika imprisoned in Messmer so that she could impose her Golden Order.
@@garurumon1203 or it claimed an Empyrean child as it's host out from under the Greater Will's nose, like the other 4 outer beings did? SotE lore implies Marika hid Messmer within the Shadow for his own safety, quite possibly from the GW itself.
Snakes and dragons aren't too far apart in the lore.
Maybe Tanith's story mirrors that of early Marika's where, like Tanith rebelling against the greater will by seeking power through the serpent, Marika rebelled against the Hornsent by mingling with it as well. One was once a dancer, the other of a similarly humble vocation before their ascendance.
2:02 makes me think Messmer's been shedding skin like a snake
Oh that's the roach dogg's little boy right there
I really thought I was going to learn more about what exactly the Abyssal Serpent was when I got to the Abyssal Woods, but no. I guess the names are purely coincidental? Unless Messmer's flame has some connection to the Frenzied Flame, but I doubt it.
I think a lot of stuff in both english and jap translation also describe the greater will as being associated with an "abyss" or a "void." They just dont have many words for big lightless things, unfortunately
I don't think there is a link at all. It's just the name that is this way
1:37 reminds me of the beloved stardust talisman
I never would have seen these amazing details without your videos. Thank you!!
I do wish we had gotten more of Messmer, I get the feeling that he was supposed to be the final boss of the first DLC and Radahn of the second, and because they were joined together we don't get the climatic feeling of beating him
I didnt realise it was a point of contention that he transformed into the snake, i thought it was pretty obvious he did
GRANT US EYES, GRANT US EYES!
Dunno if it's been pointed out but the way he "summons" his serpent forms are very similar to Dragon Incarnations (i.e. Greyoll's Roar)
thats what i wanted from his remembrance, a cool giant serpent summon, for my dragon communion build. the spear is cool tho
If they ever do an Elden Ring 2, they need to expand on the lore of the abyssal serpent.
My boy needs a hug, he's been through enough
4:03 I feel like I need to tell a trusted adult
Zullie you truly bring so much atmosphere and life to these worlds! I've never had the courage or determination (or wallet, sadly) to dive into any of them, but watching your content really makes me feel like I get to experience a really beautiful creation that I otherwise wouldn't have access to or understand.
Thank you so much!
Messmer best boss in DLC hands down. His lore, model, and theme is so badass
I love the music you chose for the video, it fits the story and Messmer's character very well.
Mother... woulds't thou truly lordship sanction, in one so bereft of light?
No matter... my purpose standeth unchanged...
I love how we all got hyped on "snake eye" of Messmer, but the MARIKA'S GRACE EYE plot twist was even better than that.
3:30 DLC Story trailer, this part kinda looks like the area that the golden strands were taken from but without the stitching maybe it was a serpent all along but i could be reaching for a possible answer that could be completely wrong
Thank you Zullie for making Messer even cooler with your in depth lore guides ❤❤❤
Eyes on the inside huh
I understood Messmer as having initially only his curse of fire inside him and trying to somehow "use" the serpent to devour it to be rid of it. The item descriptions seem topoint towards that and it would fit with the theme of big serpents being able to devour impossible things.
I still wonder how the snakeskin in the land of shadow ties in
I've always thought that Messmer was a being similar to Zoraya. That is to say, he is a serpent that assumes a human guise.
2:30 looks unbelievably cool
I think there could be an interesting parallel drawn between the eye that Marika granted Messmer and the Iris of Grace items that you can find in the game.
From Software reigns supreme, it almost sits alone in terms of art direction, details and design with so much meaning behind, every little aspect. The characters models tell a story within itselfs. Since Artorias with his destroyed left hand. And on top of that the quality of the art direction.
What I love about your channel is the choice of music. Intentionally chosen to immerse the viewers into your analysis. 🔥
Messmers story is underrated. Poor guy.
Dude I love how in every video the ost fits so friking perfect
snakes are cool. if messmer doesn't want his curse i'll take it
This soundtrack makes me think of a snake that is endlessly coiling in a circle. 10/10 on matching it to the video
Both the name and the appearance of the abyssal serpent really remind of Manus. It honestly wouldn’t feel out of place in ds1
The statue of Marika and her baby always brings me such sorrow.
He’s the most attractive character fromsoft has ever made
I know right… 🥵
What about Radagon?
@@rafsandomierz5313 What _about_ Radagon?
I can see how he has massive appeal to the queer and straight fans alike
@@rafsandomierz5313 Yeah Radagon is unbeatable for me he's so fucking sexy. But Messmer isn't bad either. Consort Radahn too. Wish we'd have seen better depictions of Rykard pre-snek eating, and Ranni pre death. All the red heads in this game, damn
Fromsoft is known to not do additional work that will not be seen. Rellana doesn't even have a head, for example. I find it strange that they decided to do model work for the holes for the snakes to emerge, just to cover it with his armor, never to be seen without tools. They either went the extra mile knowing that people would find this detail or something happened to keep his armor even though it was originally designed to be removed. This isn't a small detail about his character. Sure you get a glimpse into his eye socket in the cutscene but that is far from cementing his affliction as having the snakes LITERALLY come out of his body. It's a shame these character details are not more accessible for the average player who probably thought that messmer is just accompanied by those snakes.
i love messmer so mucchhh
Zullie out here performing the eye socket examinations we've all been wanting
Wonder if Rykard was trying to invoke the same serpent god or creature that afflicted Messmer but in a more profane way compared to Messmer, who was naturally afflicted by the abyssal serpent
It’s things like this that make you wish there was a way to save them
she be forgetting on my demigod til I Elden Ring
No
Why
Never cook again
@@GabrielAraújocoelho-t4c He can smell burnt toast, but it's not from his cooking...
My head canon is Marika used him to seal away the serpent, not that he was born afflicted with it. Rhykard states a serpent may never die, so this is how she chose to control it. Being a child of Marika he would have slowly melded with it. The eyes are interesting, as we see the same features with Godfrey body as well, the roots flowing from him also sharing very similar eyes. Who the snake was before being sealed within him is also a source of interesting speculation, some believe the gloam eyed queen to have actually been a snake. Perhaps one of her children, but just another mystery we will most likely never have answers to.
These many eyes are like Godwyn's deathblight eyes
I've been waiting for this video since we saw him break his eye! Thanks so much!