Hi, Im one of the devs for the Aztec fan mod (Return of the Gods). It would definitely be a dream come true if they do Aztecs and take inspiration from RotG.
HEY! An honor to have you in the comments my friend! Like I said I haven't taken a look at the mod yet so as to not bias myself, but from what everyone has told me it is a really fantastic piece of work. Thank you so much for your contributions to the scene and to the game!
@hhattonaom9729 awesome to hear man, I definitely hope to at some point. Are you on Discord? If so hit me up -- @robbylava. I'd love to talk to you more about your design and the process behind it.
When you brought up Tlaloc I thought of this line from AOE2: "These warriors shall recieve the blessing of the rain god and fight with the skill of ten normal men!"
Funny, I've seen fanmade Roman and Celt tech trees floating around. And then there's the mod that adds the Aztecs to the OG game. First time I've seen Japanese or Sumerians considered though
@@melikfratcicek Well, AoE2 had japanese and AoE3 and 4 also got them as dlcs/expansions so I really see a chance for them. And personally I would like them more like aztecs (not that i wouldn't like aztecs but japanese is above them for me).
@@danpower7416 I am more familiar with Shinto so I might be biased. I also know a bit about Aztecs and they seem cool. But I also think that Japanese could be easily tied with Chinese campaign.
@@melikfratcicek Tbh my favourite would be some kind of slavs bc i just friggin love their mythology but I'm pretty sure they won't be top of the dev's todo list because we already have many european cultures and in general I have the feeling that japanese culture and myth has been very hyped for the last few years (even the new AC takes place in japan). I'd love to see celts or slavs in the game but as I also mentioned before, besides AoE1 (correct me, if I'm wrong, didn't play this one for at least 20 years :D) every other age has japanese so I wouldn't be too surprised if they were to come at some point and yeah, they could be well connected to the chinese pantheon (like the og campaign kinda connected all the three old civs).
You know, when thinking what culture that would be possible for this game, I completely forgot about the Romans. Also, yeah, Hindu myth is cool, but would be extremely hard to add without offending anyone. Also, out of all of the civ to add, I am the most excited for Sumerians as I just think the Epic of Gilgamesh is cool, as well as funny.
for japanese i would kinda want them to be more Food heavy since in the past rice was used as currency as well as offerings to their gods, soo even there i could suggest that the main way for them to gain favor would be setting their shrines as a collectionpoint for food (which would get transformed in to favor). also considering that japan was very isolated in the past, i would remove/nerf/delay trade But they could gain gold later on from farming favor
A way to implement Hindu religion in the game is to use Vedic Hinduism which is older and VERY different from today's Hindusim which really should be common sense because you can't have such an old religion without it changing a lot.
Yes exactly!!! Was just thinking this the other day. The Vedic pantheon is much different than the Hindu pantheon. Indra, Agni, and Varuna as major gods along and a variety of minor gods to go along with them
@@jeffk862 Early Vedism was less interesting than the successor faith, sadly, once Later Vedism (mutated into Hinduism) gave birth to two important epics namely Mahabharata and Ramayana, and early Hindu expansionist polities (Magadha Empire under the Haryankas around 600-500s BCE) emerged. The Magadha Empire under the Mauryas gave birth to the Arthashastra codex/treatise. Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva demoted Indra (rain and storms), Agni (fire and the sun) and Varuna (seas and the sky), and the new Trimurti have their Tridevi consorts Lakshmi (fortune and fertility), Saraswati (knowledge and the arts) and Parvati (love and beauty).
I had another friend point this out to me after I launched the video. Such a clean way of doing it! If I were to redo the video now knowing this, I would probably put them at number two or three
@@papermaniac yes and no. Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu are the two big ones, but there were plenty of other minor deities that were revered or feared, the Ahuras and Daevas respectively (one of the Ahuras, Mithras, I think either supplanted Ahura Mazda or was still worshipped in some capacity as a head god, even was syncretized by the Romans, but I am pulling this bit about Mithras from Imperator Rome, so take this with a grain of salt and verify yourself). I had the idea Ahura Mazda was the only major god you could pick, but you had a bigger pool of minor gods to pull from, maybe even a few from the other players/pantheons to symbolize the Achaemenid religious tolerance. As the other comment mentioned, Zoroastrianism is still practiced today, so that's more likely to prevent it from being represented in the game like Hinduism and possibly Shinto
Zoroastrianism is an Axial age religion. Polytheism existed in Persia before 500 B.C. As long as the two main entities, the benign and the malignant, are not mentioned, there is no way for any Zoroatrist to be offended. Not even a Sassanid Zoroatrist would care about that.
@ZS-rw4qq Which is impossible given that none of those ancient religions are entirely dead. I'm personally a Hellenic Polytheist, I know many Norse Pagans, and I know Egyptian revialism is alive and well. (Though I've never personally met any.) To say nothing of the fact that these days, especially on the internet, there will always be somebody offended by something, no matter how trivial. Personally, I'd love to see Christian mythology put into the game just to watch the ensuing meltdown, but I am also kind of an a$$hole. 😂😂😂
Another possibility is ancient Persia, persia would make sense since it has waged war with Creeks in history, they also have very rich mythology to get inspiration from.
I'll Write my thoughts here as I watch this video. - First of all, it's great to see AoM content here. Couldn't be happier. - Re:Gaels/Celts. One big thing about the core 3 groups is that they cover "popular" myth groups rather easily. Egyptians are basically Brandon Frasier's Mummy, the Greeks are Jason and the Argonauts, and the Norse are well, Vikings, Wagnerian in all their horned/winged helmet glory. All 3 are also very visually and thematically distinct. Greeks have the Gray hills and lush Mediterranean grass, with their Marble columns and red shingle roofs, Egyptians have their Sandy dunes and their rocky cliffs, with buildings of Sandstone decorated with colorful artwork. The Norse have their green pines and endless snow, and their buildings of Cobble and Wood. This brings me to the idea of new Civs. While many are vaguely similar with "celts/gaels" and can grasp druids, I think they aren't as catchy in terms of their pop culture and common knowledge. Everybody knows Thor, Valkyries, Mummies, Pyramids, Cyclops, Hoplites. What's the last big franchise or media piece that featured Gaelic myth? Think of the normies, not mythpilled nerds like us. Also, how would you visually distinguish the Celts from the Norse? I know irl the two are fundamentally different groups, but the do overlap in terms of "Burly Barbarians from the woods who live in wood and thatch huts and have wings/horns on their helmets." I know it's a reduction of the gaels, the distinction here is not as strong as the base game civs. - Roooomeeee. I wouldn't mind, had Atlanteans not exist already. Having a third grecko-roman civ is perhaps a bit much. Their biggest issue wouldn't be their mechanics, as actually I think they would be very distinct mechanically just lookin at their history, but as you said, their lack of distinct myth units and flavor is what would hurt them most. I actually agree with your points that they overlap too much with the Atlanteans. - My Suggestions for Rome would be to have Consuls as fighting heroes, who'd be randomly named after famous Roman war leaders. You can have two at a time and they support your army much like the praetor. To buff them, however, and to showcase a real part of Roman religion that is thematically, mythically, and historically appropriate, I'd suggest the Augur as the second hero. Romans were very superstitious and the outcome of many a battle were decided to them ahead of time. Augury was a vital part of their culture and I think it'd be great to showcase it. I am clueless as to how, especially without stepping on the toes of either the priest or the oracle. - Sumer! Or Babylonians. Or Assyria. Or Persia. Or the Levant. Basically, any Fertile crescent group to complete the glaring hole. I think they will make them a more general and choose one of the main local pantheon (Babylonian is an option too) but otherwise use myth units and human units from various other fertile crescent cultures. This wouldn't be that much of an issue IMHO as the huge overlap between the various cultures exists IRL as well. How many biblical demons are Babylonian? How much did Persian Zoroastrianism affect the Jewish fate? I think the overlap is justifiable and fine, especially seeing how the Norse, Egyptians and Atlanteans already do it to one extent or another. - I do not think they would be that similar to Egyptians. A proper fertile crescent civ, with a bronze age feel would be much more distinct. Firstly, Ziggurats are cool. You can make them visually distinct from the Egyptian stuff by using darker brick and later transitioning to the colored bricks you see in Babylon. I think you can actually lean into a bit into them being similar to the Egyptians and make that an advantage rather than a disadvantage by contrasting them. God-Kings who serve as combat buffers rather than economic buffs, grain-counting scribes who oversee your economy instead of priests, etc. Also give them Heavy Melee-Chariots to contrast Egypt's Chariot Archers. Compare and Contrast, basically. -Oh, ok, Glad to see we're actually basically on the same page here re: God Kings, Chariots, and Temple Bureaucracies. - Ah, yes, Riyujin. God of Psychotropic Fish and Cyberpunk. Wait, no. - Hindu Can def. Work, easily. Perhaps lean more into Vedic roots rather than modern hinduism. That way you can avoid stepping on toes? I'm unfamiliar tho. Polynesians and Yaruba would work, but I'm afraid they don't have the Mass appeal needed for a game like this sadly. Same with Slavs, plus you'd be stepping visually and gameplay wise on many Norse elements, and from a Slavic perspective I am afraid perhaps too much Slavic myth has been reduced to fairy tales in the post-Christian world? Think Koshei, Baba-Yaga, Russalkas, etc. So both too similar to Norse, and a bit too hard to take seriously if done in-correctly. - And yes, I Agree the next civ is probably Aztecs. But if not them, probably Babylonians/Summerians. Because imho they are the 2nd most recognizable mythology choice by proximity to Egyptian and Greek stuff, and also irl to the Bible and Demonology and horror (Apzu, Tiamat, Dagon, etc.). They have the most pop-culture presence on this list other than Aztecs and Japanese. - Final notes: I think there could be genuinely a case be made for "pairings" of civs. Take civs that are thematically, geographically, and gameplay-wise similar or otherwise overlap, and pair them with each other. Greeks and Romans, Aztecs and Atlanteans (only because Atlanteas have some meso-vibes, really), Norse and Celts or Slavs, Egyptians and Sumerians, Japanese and Chinese. This allows you to not have to reinvent the wheel each time, re-use *some* assets and frameworks between civs, and make sure a choice feels thematically correct. This is a great way to justify adding many civs, while still keeping some semblance of uniqueness. 10 civs, some which overlap is fine. Makes each civ less unique, but they crossed that line with Atlanteans. -So TL;DR I think actually there is a case to add *all* of the civs in this list . Greeks, Egyptians, Norse, Atlanteans and Chinese and then having the Romans, Sumerians/Babylonians, Gaels/Slavs, Aztecs and Japanese. Great video, as always.
"What's the last big franchise or media piece that featured Gaelic myth?" I'd say every adaptation of King Arthur does that to a degree. And Asterix had Gauls, so if there was a broader Celtic civ, it could draw from both.
@@TheBeastCH Arthurean legend has been toroughky anglicized, and the Gaels and Gauls overlap but aren't the same, tho I guess a general "celtic" civ does have a better chance of being represented than a "gaelic"/"irish" one.
@@ConscriptDavid Cease your spoilsport behavior, normie. I must invite Fate/GO players here when the Celts culture is officially announced by MS themselves.
Personally for Romans, I would make their gimmick being having soldiers that train slow but you get a bunch at once and units are generally slow and strong but you cna build roads to speed up units a great deal, at the cost of also speeding up enemies, but not as much.
I think you could also mention the Carthage/Fenician civ. I think they would be a cool add on, maybe not top3 but close enough. If we look how devs originally thought is that they want as diverse and distinguish from other civs as possible so the Celts, Romans and even Japanese could be more further project Anyway, for me the top3 (aside of Chineese) would be: 1. Aztecs, 2. Sumerians 3. Hindu but i also love the idea of Slavs, Japanese and Celts.
I think Aztecs or Mayan culture would make very interesting faction for the Age of Mythology. It's lesser known but very interesting. Even if it's lesser known mythology and does not wield bronze armor their mythical creatures could be Apocalyptically strong. They have their unique temple pyramid architecture and sacrificial culture to appease the gods. It would create a unique sacrifice-driven faith system.
Very cool video but I really think the romans are unlikely for many points : (Note : im someone who is a huge rome fan) -1 : They are too close to greeks (architecture, pantheons, monsters and overhaul culture). Of course they have a tons of differences if we go in the detail so it could still work in paper, but why add Rome when you can add civilisations that are way more different ? Even their armies in the earlier ages were closer to what greeks was. -2 : Like you said, Atlanteans re-use greek/roman stuff, so it goes even more in that direction. -3 : It is true that Rome has a clear mythologic/religious theme, but unlike Greece they are more linked to ''modern antiquity history'' (by modern im talking the opposite of archaic age of Greece that led to a lot of speculation/myths, and Arkantos campaign is during trojan war for example, so it's archaic setting if we talk about real life history : something unclear and dark.) we have way more sources for Romans (or classical but mainly hellenic eras for the greeks) and most of their military that we know is kind of late for a ''mythology'' setting. Of course it's a game so anything can happens but... when I think about roman legions im not thinking of them fighting monsters, but more historical enemies. Even the republic era troops... The best ''era'' for rome to have it's own ''myth'' is monarchy and rome fondation, but at this time they are very close to the greeks and etruscans culturally. And it goes with my last sentence of point 1 : archaic/monarchy era units are very close to greeks. -4 : Like you said, very focused on europe. We already have 2 europeans civs, 1 that could be linked to it (atlantean) and even egyptian is very linked to europe historically despite being more ''eastern''. -5 : If we get greek/atlantean dlc that focus the greco/roman pantheon (because atlanteans is greek mythology but extended to ''titans'' and anything that is non-olympian during Zeus reign), I think more myths units will be eaten by thoses gods. So more ''roman mythicals'' units that could fit could be in there instead of Rome. Since Freyr is there and I think they plan to do this type of DLC it for more pantheons, yeah... As a Rome fan, im fine playing them in Age of Empires or others games :) I would have loved something with romans, but I think it's too complicated and not a priority. At best I think the only option to get Rome is a reskin of greeks units maybe (and different names) ? But this would be a shame and very poor. Im not saying that they won't try to include Rome, it's still possible but I don't really see how. So as a huge fan of Rome, I don't want Rome to be the the fifth wheel of the coach... I think it's better sometime to not having something to have something bad.
The Yoruba myths would be so cool! Shango, god of Thunder, Ogun, god of iron and war, Yemoja, goddess of the sea, Oya, goddess of the winds, Eshu, the trickster god etc. Yeah, they'd have to be careful and do it in a respectful way...but if they could do it for Japan than why not for West Africa? I don't know if they'll come before the Aztecs, but I'd love to see them eventually!
As an italian I dare to say that your roman proposal could be spiced up with other italic civs wiped out by the romans, like etrurians and nuragic fortresses. Also using Virgil's aenid as sources for heroes instead of homer. Like the egyptian civ is already a "best of" of various phases of a millennia long real civilization
Completely agree with you. If I were designing the Romans myself I would probably do so, but this video was trying to go for a guess of what I thought was most likely, and if I'm honest I just don't have faith that the design team wouldn't do something lazy if they were trying to implement the Romans in the game, even if there is tons of potential beyond that.
@@robbylava I mean the team has to keep in mind stuff that has to work in a lot of scenarios, but so far the approach the took seemed to rebalance the game to emphasize what is weird about AoM, like fighting the old "non-myth" meta that the previous iteration took. maybe a roman civ could be a way to preserve that older game style with less focus on favor. maybe Use it as a chance to do the "what if romans did the industrial revolution before 476" thing. IDK if you played the under-rated masterpiece "rise of legends" but imagine them going like the "vinci" civilization with leonardo crazy inventions (altough they were already used in age of empires 3). Can we expect a video about the fourht norse god? and what will be your options for a fourth titan, egyptian and greek main god? I think that adding a 4th major god is a way to further expand the game in years to come, since I doubt they did a full remake to stop at just two dlcs.
@matteodigallo561 quite creative! Not the direction I would take it, but I could maybe see there being a place for such a faction in the game. Would definitely be better than the stupid Atlanteans. You can absolutely expect all of the above and more to be discussed over the coming months and beyond! I'm not 100% sure how I will approach all of the topics yet, but I for sure have the AOM bug at this point and don't intend to cure myself of it anytime soon.
@@robbylava I mean in the xbox livestream from gamescom they called it a "new kind of dlc" so there will be def a fourth main god for atlanteans, greeks, egyptians, taoists and whater they will came up for sixth pantheon. It's absurd the idea that in a year we will go from 12 major gods to 24.
Unorthodox idea but the Romans could also have a sort of "revolution mechanic" like in aoe3 where they become monotheistic and reject their original god. Since this ultemalty happened with the rise of christianity. however christianity wasnt the only non-roman religion in the late roman empire (3rd to 6th century ad) that had a strong following, other cults where also immensly popular, like that of isis and sol invictus. To represent this each of the original major gods have this monotheistic gods to whom the players can switch to in the mythic age, as an alternative to the titan age, same as in aoe3 for industrial and imperial age. Giving new mechanics and a completely different and especially more aggressive playstyle. for Jupiter this would be Sol invictus, for Minerva Mithras and for Juno Isis. No christianity since that is still a widely practised religion and could cause controversy.
As a Gaelic Polytheist who would LOVE a Gaelic culture or even a Celtic one would be a win for me, but as a Gaelic Polytheist I personally would be super against playable Fomorii for religious reason. I also think the best picks for Major Gods, would be The Dagda (thats a given) Lugh and Brigid, Or The Dagda, Nuada and The Morrigain, or some combination of the three. I do kind of think the best three are the High Kings of The Tuatha De Dananan which are The Dagda, Nuada and Lugh. I think that is the best triad for major gods ultimately.
Big 3: The Dagda, The Mórrigan, Lúgh (+ Danu who is the big mama of the TDD) Others: Nuada Airgetlám, Dian Cécht, Ogma, Brigid, The Cailleach, Áine (awn-yuh), Aengus mac Óg, Manannán mac Lir, Ériu, Flidais, the Trí Dée Dána (Goibniu, Creidhne and Luchtaine), Donn (of the Milesians)
First of all, very nice presentation and awesome ideas. I found two things in your presentation that i would kinda ''disagree'' with. First: the roman god guesses. There are so many interesting gods that were worshipped in ancient rome way before they adopted the greek pantheon to their own deities so your choices seem to look a little bit ''weak'' in my eyes. And gods like Mars and Quirinus should be two of the major gods in this case (but that's just subjective, i know). And i would be really happy to see gods like Justitia, Fortuna, Terminus, Bellona, Pomona etc... for the romans in the game too. There lies a rich and independent mythology in ancient rome. Second: (I know you stated it's a subjective choice from your side, aswell as my disagrement) but in a game about the ancient times a ''mainland celtic'' civ like the gaulish celts with gods like Teutates, Cernunnos, Taranis, Artaios, Epona etc. would fit better for AoM. They would have a very prominent connection to the Romans aswell. BUT yes i know i'm just super subjective and just a nerd who wants his favorite stuff in one of his favorite pc games haha. General speaking i love you list. It includes kinda all of my three biggest wishes: Romans, Mesopotamians and Celts. (Japanese and Aztecs would also be cool) Very cool and interesting video anyway. Love your content and i'm looking really forward to Retold. Have a nice day :)
Completely reasonable opinions! My Roman picks were based entirely off of who I have seen to be most important to them (hence the capitoline triad as the major gods), but I could see bringing in some of their more obscure and unique gods as well to help differentiate them better. Mainland Celts / Gauls would also be awesome. Like I mentioned, I only specified the Gaels because of my own personal biases hehehehe. I actually think that mainland Celts or (much to my displeasure) an umbrella civ containing all Celts would be much more likely. Thanks so much for taking the time to watch! I'm really glad you enjoyed the video and I had a great time reading your thoughts.
I like that idea of garrisoning civilians for the Romans, It would be cool to implement it in many more aspects of the civ, like sacrifices could be integrated in more areas than favor generation for the Aztecs. Also, I really like your idea of upgrading temples, it should be implemented in different ways in more civs. Japanese shrines could be upgraded by dropping food there, you won't receive the food, but the shrine would grow in size, capabilities, and favor generation; they would be very weak and easily destroyed, so a Japanese civ would spam and hide shrines all over.
Here's a mild and not at all controversial suggestion, distinguish the Romans from the Greeks and Antlanteans by having it be Constantinian-era Christian Rome rather than Hellenic rome. Instead of a major god, you pick one of Jesus' apostles, or maybe one of the other major early figures in Christianity. Maybe you could go for a trio of say, John the Baptist, Peter and Paul the Apostle? And then instead of minor gods you pick various saints. Of course this is guaranteed to never happen for obvious reasons. However I do think there might be potential for some of the later-era Roman pagan stuff for something different from the Hellenic pantheon, maybe gods like Sol Invictus and Mithras rather than Jupiter and co. Might be a little trickier to come up with stuff for those, but whatever.
You know, when you mentioned Romans being copy cats, which admittedly they were in history, but the idea of "they will copy but worse", the idea of a culture with several methods of favor gain, but they all equally suck and there are down sides for focusing. Though I can also see the Japanese having special designated priests that can worship at shrines, however you must turn villagers into priests which will gain a big bonus for worshipping at a shrine, however then it will become a crawl of 1 favor per minute, and thus must step away for it to rejuvenate, now for Japanese, you can make them economically special almost similar to the Egyption that is, a lot of Japanese units and structures require less gold, however in turn, require more wood, even the Samurai trades gold for wood and the samurai is an elite cav with both range and melee.
I think japanese are likely to appear but later, aztecs being first. If JP are added I'd love for the Yuki-Onna to be added as a myth unit. For major gods I was thinking more like Izanami / Izanagi and their father and Amaterasu / Tsukuyomi / Susanoo being the mythic age god options.
See, while I would personally really hate to see the Romans in game, I disagree that they would necessarily just be a reskin! I think it's likely they would be taken in that direction, but it wouldn't necessarily be true to mythology. While the Romans did have a lot of overlap with the Greeks of course, they treated their gods very differently, and gods that were "the same" between they and Hellenic cultures often served very different roles between them. Plus they had a couple that the Greeks simply didn't, such as deifying many of their leaders. So in summary, I still don't think the Romans are high on my personal list of adds, but if they were to be added it is 100% possible to make them vibrant and distinct and not just a lame Greek reskin.
Gimme all of these!!! I also think that India/Hinduism would be a fantastic addition to AoM. They could do something similar to India in AoE3 with their animals for favor. The more herd animals you have at your temple or just at your disposal, the more favor you generate.
I think if Romans were added, it would make the most sense to focus on gods with no Greek equivalent, or Greek equivalents not included in the game. Or if they really want to be controversial, go with Roman Christianity.
Despite particularly wanting to buy this game for the campaigns and their stories. It also looks addicting for skirmish game play particularly against other players after enough experimenting for optimistic play has been had for it too. While that doing a rework of latter OG campaigns such as for the Chinese is especially interesting to look forward to for the campaign play and story play. That as well as further uniqueness of PVP skirmish play. Instead of just removing them lazy tense. It is after all AOM Retold that does not have to keep with the rough narrative of the OG tales of the dragon for the purpose of a remake after all. If done well like you say too in your own words for any new civilisations. Then it would turn out very awesome. That also included with quality campaigns for each one of the civilisations would be further exciting. Here is a list of Ideas. Some of which are what you already mentioned as well. Classic Civilisations. 1 Greece. 2 Egypt. 3 Norse. 4 Atlantis. 5 China. New Civilisation expansion Ideas. 6 Rome. 7 Gaul. 8 India. 9 Korea. 10 Maya ( BC Aztec and Inca ) 11 Assyria. 12 Persia. 13 Ethiopia. Other Possible Civilisations that would complement the BC time frame and world of Age of Mythology. 14 Arabia. 15 Phoenicia. 16 Syria. 17 Celts ( The Gaul's were more or less ancient of the france region with Celtics being Hallstatt and the Emerald Island peoples and the rest of the main land Germanic peoples ) 18 Summer ( Atlantis in game definitely makes summer a might as well for both the campaign and skirmish too )
I know people like to pretend it doesn't exist (even though I think it's a very good game and still play it occasionally) but you can use _Age of Empires Online,_ which is set around the same sort of time, as a template. Aside from the AoM civs, it has the Romans, the Celts, the Babylonians, the Persians and (eventually) the Indians. Also, considering the changes they made to AOE3, the devs probably want to throw a Native American civ in there somewhere so there'll probably be something like the Olmecs.
Can't wait for the Christianity expansion. Too bad they only have 1 major god, but their hero is jesus and when he dies he comes back for free after 3 minutes. They get favor by having villagers garrison in a temple and taking 10% of all the gold every villager gathers. One of the god powers could be giving cancer to villagers or something. We also could have the apostles as heroes, but be careful with judas if you have him and jesus on the same control group jesus dies.
Hi Robby! Nice to see you on the AoM topic. For your civilizations I would say - Gaels => 100% agree... if you take the whole Celts. AoM is designed around big civilization blocks so the Celts would have more sense than just a fraction of them. - Romans => No way. I really don't want to see them in the game. For me they have nothing to do here. - Sumerians => A great choice. I would like to see them alongside with the Mesopotamians (all the Semites living in Mesopotamia). - The Japanese are an obvious choice. That doesn't mean that it's a bad idea. One day or another, they will be in the game. - Of course the Aztecs. I guess that they will be the next to be added. And for the sacrifices, your idea is good but what if you could sacrifice an enemy unit who would bring more favors to you. I don't know, 1 of your villagers gives you 1 favor and an enemy villagers gives you 2. Such a system should be added.
How is nobody mentioning the Persians? They fit into the setting almost perfectly, and could do some great historical homages and recreations of conflicts between them and the Greeks. Battles of Thermopylae and Salamis levels, anyone? Not to mention it would allow for the use of characters like Xerxes and Cyrus. Major Gods: Ahura Mazda(King of The Gods) Mithra (God of The Rising Sun, Covenants, Contracts, and Kingship). Could do Ardvi Sura Anahita instead if we feel there needs to be a female major god, and she's the most important of those. Angra Mainyu (Principle of Evil, Chaos, and Discord) Yes, it's very much a Ra, Isis, Set dynamic going on here. Mithra I believe is an inspiration for Horus and the two cultures did have crossover and commonality between eachother. The Huma Bird and the Phoenix are basically the same thing. I think the Persians militarily and mythologically are distinct enough though to be their own thing. Do some googling and you'll see they have more than enough interesting other gods to fill out the minor god slots. Zurvan, They also have a very rich mythology to draw upon for myth units.They fill a (somewhat) similar niche while being overall more developed to the Sumerians. Sure, it means no Gilgamesh, but we get Azhi Dahaka(Evil Three headed Dragons), Simurgh (Guardian Dog-Headed Bird, personification of virtue)The Primordial Bull, (Hell, we already have manticores in the game and they're a Persian monster), the Al(Nocturnal baby-eating monster in the shape of an old woman. Sounds terrifyingly awesome), Shahmaran (Snake-Queen and essentially the inspiration for Nagas) and of course, Djinn!(Otherwise known as GENIES!) Who doesn't want genies in AoM? Also, they definitely have public awareness with movies like 300, and Persian myth has come up in some form all over media. And of COURSE, there's the Immortals. I could see the Persians doing a crapstacking strategy when it comes to military. I feel like we KIND OF have that with the Norse with Ulfsarks but this would be more extreme. A lot of weak, cheap, and low-pop units with strong myth units and other special heroes to support them. Favor likely gained through slavery or indentureship of some form, or even based on constructing new buildings.
While I think the Romans shouldn't be prioritised because of Eurocentric/Graecoromancentric reasons (looking at you Atlantis), I have to heavily object calling them cheap and out of place. This sentiment comes from the misinformed ideo of roman religion being a copy of the greek one. I think there are some great ways to implement the Romans: focus on early rome with Romulus & Remus as the focus of the civ or go full Imperial with deification of Emperors and the new Gods that got introduced to the empire (Sol Ivictus, Mithras, ...). My favourite version would be a combination of the two: the Starting gods ar the same you proposed (Iuppiter, Minerva, Iuno) but as you pass through the ages you progress from Ianus, Bellona etc. to the classical gods like Mars, Hercules etc. and end with Sol Invictus and the deifyed emperors. I agree that Romans should hava a more human unit focus and to give a nod to the adaptability of the Romans make them be able to recruit mythical units from other civilisations.
I genuinely couldn't agree with you more! Like I said in the video, I think there are ways to do the civilization right and to actually make it extremely fun and unique, I'm just not particularly confident that, if added, that would be what was done with them.
If they were bold they could make Iehowa one of their late game options, going monotheistic (like a revolution in aoe3) but that would bring the same difficulties as Hinduism.
I am from slavic region and i will tell you something.Slavic mythology and Norse mythology are so similar it is crazy.Thor is basically Perun, Odin is Svarog, Loki is Veles,same or similar concept so i dont even know if people would be interested in that.All "barbarian" pagans from Europe , have so similar mythology that it makes you wonder actually.
I know it's imposible, but do you know what would be extremelly cool for you to do? A Christian pantheon, it would be extremelly small, with, well, just 1 major god, but several minor gods could be the archangels and other beings, with heroes as disciples and saints as mythological units, imposible to put in the game but would honestly be a great challenge and most probably a great pantheon
Dozens upon dozens of people have requested it, so I'm going to try to find a way to make it work without being completely sacrilegious! Just might take a little while to get to.
@@robbylava nah make it as sacriligical as possible, it's not going in the game so you can be as real as you want, maybe in the future you can make a mark2 and tame the original a little bit xd
On the matter of the Celts, I'd say they should go Gaels and nothing more, the other continental Celts are too broad and over the place, or we simply don't know much about them, rather stick to something they can make justice to. A shame to miss out on Cernunnos who doesn't appear in Gaelic mythology if I'm not mistaken tho. I don't really like the Romans as a mythological faction, they had their own mythos, kinda and religion and it was distinct and all but they started to link and smash it with the Greeks too early on. Interpretatio graeca was the worst shit they ever did to themselves but it is what it is... Plus rather see some other stuff from out of Europe. For the rest of the rest I quite like. On the matter of Hindus tho, they have been really touchy of depctions of their faith in videogames, looking at Smite specifically, so it could be hard.
I think there is more potential for Celtic factions than just in the British Isles, but I would agree that the Gaelic peoples are probably the highest priority. Solid take on the Romans 2, especially the interpretatio Graeca -- couldn't have said it better myself.
You know I never thought about Bayonetta. I was really hesitant to include anything Christian adjacent, but you're completely right that she sets a pretty interesting precedent for what could be included in the game without drawing inordinate outrage.
Yeah this vid rocked. I have craved AOM content like this for years. I personally really want to see Celts for my own biased reasons, but I can't imagine that ever happening unless the upcoming expansions receive a thunderous applause and we all wash them in cash. Aztecs being the upcoming expansion does seem the likely route but I'm not particularly stoked for that compared to what else could be. Sure I've enjoyed Aztecs on AOE3 and AOE2 and there's good potential for Aztecs in AOM but I'd way rather see Sumeria first (especially with your game design ideas), or Persia, Yoruba, Hindus or Celts. Rome could work too I suppose but again, not my first choice. I just hope they continue to support the game and bring out more expansions as time goes on because AOM has deserved this love for years now.
Really appreciate you saying so my friend. I fully intend on putting out designs for all of the above and more here on the channel! Though it will certainly take a while hehehe
Good vid, I'm biased but I'd like the Celts, I feel like they'd have such an interesting roster of units, druids instead of priests, giants, elves, fairies, etc as well as fearsome human warriors
I suppose specifically im thinking Brythonic Celts, I'm from Wales so I grew up hearing the stories from the Mabinogion, about all sorts of fantastical folklore. Although, I suppose the Mabinogion was written in the medieval Christian period. But yeah the giants, dragons, etc I feel like we have a good roster of potential myth units 😁
My proposition: CHRISTAINS main Gods: Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, The Father they would be based on byznantines (making them kinda like romans) and with some influence of medieval kinghts and things like Arhurian legeneds Their thing should be a lot of converting and evangalizing other as this is what christians do and also i think they should have completely different vin con, for example finding they holy grail or waiting for the return of the messaiah, They wouldnt have much of myth units cuz duh, mostly angels - at least 4 different types - angels, arhcangels, cherubs and seraphins Instead of this they would have this ability to Bless human units granting them more stats, speciall abilities and turning them into myth-type units For heroes they obviously could have saint of different types, as well as some legendary saints that are just better. Martyrs, evangelizors and knights fe. Also why not make the Holy orders like Templars and Hospitalers another type of heroes And i want to mention St. George specificaly as he fckin slayed the dragon For the minor gods i would propose importnat saints and archangels, fe.: St. Archangel Michel, St. George, St. Marcus, St. Augustine and stuff like that For the 3 last age saint i think the best trio would be like: Saint Peter, Saint Paul and Saint John, and because John wrote fckin apocalypse giv him the power of starting one and spawning 4 horseman of apocalypsce They would gain favors for evangalizng and sacruficing martyrs, but most importanlty from building great fckin cathedrals - the player could choose how much they want to pay for them - greater cathdral is more expensive and takes longer to build but it also would generate much more favour. And then every sunday all of your cathedrals would generate favour for you. "On the other hands": literally none, this is perfect idea, i am catholic and i would love to see this, microsoft plssss
I could not find any evidence that a scorpion man was in any Egyptian myth (except for Selket). I believe they only included it because of the movie "The Mummy." And why Ebisu over Bishamon? Both are gods of wealth, but Bishamon is associated with wealth in war, while Ebisu is associated with wealth in business. Bishamon would fit better for Age of Mythology. Ebisu can work if you give him market related upgrades, but still I believe that bishamon would fit easier.
Bishamon(ten) had roots from Hinduism via the wealth god Kubera. Ebisu is the sole member of the Shichifukujin not based from foreign faiths in Japan. Daikokuten? The Shinto pantheon has Ookuninushi for the role.
Why did you only name 6 minor gods per suggestion when we don't have the game 9 per civilization? Other interesting civilizations besides the 5 and honorable mentions are: Maya, Incas, Hittites and Persians. I would like an Inuit pantheon, but that is impossible.
I only mentioned six because I didn't want to wait into the weeds of what they would all look like, instead I want to save those full builds for later videos. I think all of the proposals you have here are great, and I think there are many more besides! Inuits might actually be more viable than you think, though for me they would be a very low priority personally.
Definitely in favor of Gaels and Gauls as distinct factions, although, assuming the Tuatha de Dannan -> Aes Sidhe aren't a faction of their own, I'd favor Nuada as a major god with options to worship the succeeding kings of the Tuatha as Minors for later ages. Yes this would make the Dagda into a Minor God. Yes that is a compromise I'm not thrilled about. I think the Romans, if included, should at least include Imperial religious developments like Sol invictus and the Imperial Cult, but I admit that that's not super likely. Sumerians are a shoe in eventually, imo, as are Aztecs. Shinto is tricky, but plausible; I think we'd likely get a Chinese rework first. (I'm drawing the conjecture that the absence of the Chinese civ from Retold at base is a sign that the way they exist in EE is recognized as untenable) I agree that Hindu is less likely than Shinto, but more likely than something Abrahamic. I like the idea of Polynesians relying on myth units for siege, I think that's a neat niche for their design. I can't speak much to the Yoruba religious practices, but I can say that I would love to see respectful translations of African myths implemented, including Akan- specifically because I like Anansi stories. Slavic is highly underrated, and there's probably a touch more interest than you might predict because of Neil Gaiman's American Gods drawing some attention to them. Unmentioned, but Mongol Tengri might be a good vein to mine- though I don't know a ton about it, they'd certainly make for a neat civ, perhaps radically only having a single settlement, but with the ability to pack up the whole camp and move to a new site. Another unmentioned possibility would be the Incans. Something I'm tempted by but probably don't want to see because I don't trust it to be respectful is most any northern Native American culture's religions. It's a shame, because the chance to learn is exciting, but just as there are concerns about Shinto, Hindu, and other living practices causing upset, given the history of cultural exploitation, I can't really endorse it unless it was 1. developed with input by and the support of experts of a particular indigenous people, 2. the native people in question would be the civ in game, and not a broader category that included other living tribes, and 3. a large chunk of the cost of the DLC went to the tribe(s) involved in perpetuity.
Tengri is a super underrated pic and one I definitely considered but thought would be much too obscure to include on the list. Would love to get to it eventually though!
It's a shame "not offending anyone" must be a consideration these days for gamedesign. I cannot think of a single game depiction of (medieval) islam or christianity NOT heavily playing into tropes. Or the played to death "noble savage" trope for any kind of tribal people... Therefore Hinuism should totally be on the table! Come and fight me for having interest in your culture, my curry munching friends!11 That said, i'd love to see the aztecs. Always had an interest in them since playing Theocracy as a child. Awesome game with horrible pathfinding and hard to get running on modern systems. Came with a dummy thick manual with a ton of (non historical?) background info to factions, hero gear items, spells, etc. Sacrificing slaves produced "mana" for one of 5 "spheres" of magic... too spicy for modern american audiences? They are technically native american though, so modern americans shouldn't give a f*** :P
Hey, just wanted to say that I very much agree with Sumerians, Japanese and Aztecs. Sumerians are probably my most wanted Culture. Polynesians would be great as well. Also would love to see Mongolians, simply because I personally am in love with them, but I guess they have not as much of a mythology.
Sorry, you lost me at "chupacabra". We have a ton of mythical creatures in the Aztec Pantheon or you can even portray minor gods from the hundreds there are. Having a modern cryptod which was a complete fake, a smoke screen for political corruption is a slap to the face for mesoamerican myth and culture enthusiasts. Still great summary and info. Hope to see the aztecs as a new Pantheon in retold.
Oh yeah, If it were up to me I would never add something like that unless I had literally ZERO other options, which is absolutely not the case for the Aztecs. That said, while I personally wouldn't use the idea, I could totally see it being included in an official design, whether I liked it or not. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, I'm really glad you enjoyed the video!
As for the options, all of them, except the Romans, would be awesome if added to the game. Would also like to see more niche options added - all of the options you listed were amazing, and there are still a TON of fun cultures you could still add without things getting boring.
Even I would be open for and interested in Aztecs I personally don’t understand why ppl forget about Mayans so often even I think Mayans would fit even better. Your idea of Sumerians is great as I highly support to see them in AoMR aswell!! Gaels/Celts would be great too but I think you overestimate your so called „japanophelia“ cause even I watch animes and shogun I REALY think Japanese content is overused and oversaturated. I would personally more interested in Slavic culture to be added. Especially since I played a nice early access rts game called godsworn. (and ofc for all who like the Witcher series/games and it’s creatures) so my top 5 would be: 1 . Mayan(Aztec) 2. Sumerian 3. Slavic 4. „Celts“ 5. either Yoruba or maybe just maybe Japanese
I didnt know i wanted the romans as a civ until you brought it up and i have some alternative ideas to how theyd play. Like you said id make them very human centric in their military with lots of trash units eventually transitioning into heavy infantry and advanced siege units late game. Instead of having them mimic the favor generation of their enemies id instead have their favor generation be based on offerings and sacrifices at a temple, say you deposit 100 food youd get like 10 favor and a very small trickle for awhile scaling with how much you put in much like the italian building(whos name evades me rn) in aoe3 where you invest resources to get a trickle of gold. I would then tie this to a large civ wide mechanic where you have a scale from -100 to 100 with a pendulum that will travel from one end to the other before turning around and going the other way, 0 to 100 would provide civ wide buffs to everything while 0 to -100 would debuff everything. This is tied to the favor generation by the speed the pendulum travels at being tied to how many resources you currently have invested at the temple, this would give you some strategic initiative to try and speed through a down period or speed up to 100 for a large battle. This is inspired by the practice the romans had of sacrificing livestock to try and predict the outcome of a battle or campaign. There are some massive defeats the romans suffered after ignoring the bad vibes that still resulted in an eventual roman triumph maybe suggesting that the sacrifices didnt produce an immediate effect but instead pushed the needle over to them gradually The second big mechanic id give them would be in how they tech through their armory, i would make it so that progress to better armor and weaponry be directly tied to combat with different opponents giving different amounts of research progress(fighting lots of Egyptian infantry could provide benefits to armor to outlast them while fighting greek hoplites would give you better shields as you steal them) One last thing i might do is make one of the major patron gods apollo in reference to romes possible origin of refugees fleeing troy whos most worshipped patron god was apollo
If the do the Romans they should go all in on the mysteries for example Mithras, Serapis, and Isis. They could also gain favor the celebrations and feast somewhat like the Native Americans in Aoe 3.
You got it my friend th-cam.com/video/L2KqFm28EcE/w-d-xo.html Doesn't really hold up to the quality of my more recent work, but I still think there's some good stuff to be found there!
12:33 Etruscans would be a good alternative to the Romans and be more properly Italic, I think making the Trojans a proper culture would be badass (and they have Roman ties in myth)
@@ahmicqui9396 that would be a myth unit. I'm thinking human units. As by the rules AoM sets, having one of the three pillars of human soldiers taken over by myth units would render human armies more vulnerable to heroes, as heroes get bonus damage against myth units.
Not going to lie I actually do kind of find your Fey sub idea interesting in its own right because I feel like you could also do a lot with fictional/non-human cives as well even if they potentally have less to work with.
@@robbylava Part of the thing I find interesting about AOM is that the mixture of History and... well Mythology and how that impacts things. For instance even with your Rome idea I imagine AOM Green would be unconquered for a lot longer.
Great ideas all round. I feel like the Aztecs are more likely than the others to become the brand new civilization that will be included with Retold. The reason I say this is because the Aztecs are already a main staple of some of the other Age games, mainly AOE2 & 3. A lot of the Aztec unit models and buildings already exist in AOE3 Definitive Edition, and they can be ported onto AOM Retold. In terms of economics, that would save the devs a lot of time and effort because it means they won't have to recreate some of the models from scratch. They just have to work on designing the gods and add new mechanics to this civ to make it viable for AOM. However, there are several problems with the Aztecs that I think will put them at a disadvantage to every other civ so far in the game. For example, the Aztecs will lack cavalry, siege equipment and even pack animals to conduct trade. I suppose their trade unit can be a human as they never domesticated any beasts of burden. But when it comes to the lack of cavalry and siege units, that's going to affect gameplay a lot more. This can be resolved by simply making Aztec foot soldiers move faster on average. Lets say, Eagle and Jaguar Warriors have higher speed than Greek hoplites or Egyptian slingers, but still move slower than cavalry units. This can be expressed by them sprinting instead of marching while on the move. As for siege, they could also get a portable rams like the Norse or even have a unit that throws torches at buildings like the Indian arsonist from AOE3. They can even let a certain number of their infantry do greater damage to buildings to make up for this deficit. I also like your idea of giving Aztec elite units a bonus against myth units. Because I think the Aztec hero should be not that different from the explorer/warchief unit featured in AOE3. Similar to the Egyptians, I think the Aztecs should just have one unique hero. But unlike the pharaoh, the warchief is purely a military unit but a pretty tanky one even compared to the Greek heroes. Maybe just like how its done in AOE3, the Aztec warchief can get a health and attack bump whenever the player advances into a higher age. They could even have special abilities like a special cool down attack, and can act more like a campaign unit where when they are killed, they go into 'wounded' mode until friendly units resuscitate them.
The war chief unit is called Tlatoani, who I can see him change war banners (Pamitl) sporting a different aura each depending on the situation. Warrior Priests act as secondary melee Hero units and also healers via research (Coyote Warrior Priests having a build limit) The Aztec troops could use some Dual Mode gimmicks (melee to ranged and vice versa), excluding the Cuachicqueh that are counterparts to Zeus Myrmidons and the Otontin as the finest Archers of the army. They should have a special team dedicated to hijacking enemy siege engines (and also enemy warships); it's like the Traitor God Power but as a human soldier team (think GLA Hijackers or the Yuri Clones) Copper/Bronze/Iron/further alloy Weapons and Armor upgrades can be substituted for Obsidian-related upgrades and the like that befit their tech pride, mainly because Mesoamerican military metalworks was not widespread.
In AoE III I always used the Aztecs and I will say that the lack of cavalry or siege equipment wasn't a problem. And I agree , they can have a unique hero like Egyptians, the "Tlatoani".
@@abrahamayala5789 Same. I love their playstyle. I just realized that in AOM, they will get myth units to make up for their lack of cavalry and siege units.
That's actually an excellent point, I hadn't thought about that. Do you know if there have been any controversies surrounding that? Or any changes made to make those representations more palatable? Additionally, do you know if these are Hindu deities that are still prominent today or are they Vedic representatives who are not as relevant to the modern religion? Apologies for all the questions, totally fine if you don't know. I'm just very interested in hearing more since I hadn't thought about this example at all until you brought it up.
If we were to get a RobbyLAVA breakdown of any of these proposed civs/cultures, I'd definitely want to see the Gaels first and foremost. Not because I think they're the most likely inclusion (they're definitely behind Japanese and Aztecs), but because I'm an Eireboo and would want to see how your ideas/conceptions of Irish myth compare to my own.
About the Chupacabra myth unit for the Aztec, I think no because that’s a Puerto Rico myth story, not a Mexican, or Aztec myth story, I know it was also spotted in Mexico in later years, but it was mainly discovered in the 1992- 95 more or less in Puerto Rico, and the Aztec empire didn’t exist by that time. Although if we are thinking what the Atlantean have with Rome in Myth units then I get it, but at the same time I don’t see the Chupacabra being a Myth unit for the Aztecs.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, it would be absolute nonsense If it were added, completely unfitting in every possible way. BUT, I still think it's actually quite possible to be added, considering Age Of Mythology (and the rest of the Age franchise) focuses much more on Pop culture perceptions of the civilizations in cultures they cover rather than the actual history and mythology behind it. I personally think this is a short sighted design philosophy and don't like it at all, but since this video was predictive rather than prescriptive I thought it was a good guess to make, even if I didn't personally like it.
@@robbylava don’t worry it was a good episode to see and it was enjoyable, thanks for the video, and hopefully AOM gets a lot of love like AOE2 is getting, love to see different myth units from every culture.
Hehehe thanks! These sort of presentations have kind of become my brand over the years lol I've actually had commenters in the past tell me that they preferred when I used FEWER pictures so I can keep my videos more information dense, but I'm glad you've given me another data point to consider for future. I'll try my best to integrate a few more!
How could you not have mentioned Persians bro... one of the coolest and least covered cultures/mythologies and directly relevant to both Hellenic and Egyptian cultures.
I didn't mention them because I think they are less likely than the others I posited. If this were a list about who I WANTED to see most in the game, Persians would have almost certainly been in the top five.
The maddest I remember was a mod for a faction that had Lovecraftian entities as their gods and myth units (My only problem is how do you build the human units and human economy around that?).
Nice video. Looks like you've taken the time to work this all out. I think most of the cultures that you mentioned would fit well in the game. The Romans though, I'm not sure. Actually I would personally be very disappointed if they would add the Romans to AoM. Don't get me wrong. I'm a massive fan of Roman history and it actually is one of my favorite historical cultures/themes. The thing is that somehow, in my personal opinion, they don't fit in AoM at all. As far as I know Roman mythology leans heavily on Greek mythology and it is basically just their interpretation of it, so to me it wouldn't feel as original and unique as the others that are already in the game. And besides that, when I think about ancient Rome, I think about massive legions of organized human soldiers wearing heavy armor marching in tight formations being led with (for their time) groundbreaking military strategy and tactics. I just don't associate ancient Rome with mythological beasts and stuff like that. Actually, before you mentioned them in this video, I couldn't even come up with a single mythological beast that I associate primarily with ancient Rome, instead of earlier Hellenistic or simillar cultures. I think ancient Rome fits amazingly well in games like f/e Total War or AoE, but not AoM. But thats all my personal opinion and maybe I should study Roman mythology more, lol. Then, my mind is absolutely blown that there are people that find the Atlanteans a bad choice for AoM. When I hear the word mythology, the myth of Atlantis is actually one of the first that comes to my mind. Atlantis is actually mentioned in- and connected with both Greek and Egyptian mythology. How the Atlanteans are thematically dumb or less real compared to any of the other gods and mythological beasts in this game that is called Age of Mythology is completely beyond my comprehension. Other than that I agree with most of your suggestions. Cultures that in my opinion would fit well in AoM are: 1. Aztec (or Meso American in general) 2. Hindu Vedas 3. Sumerians 4. Any Gaelic, Celtic and/or Slavic culture
I legitimately really hope that ends up happening, or at least something like it. Much as I like Age of mythology, I think AOE2 has a far superior engine.
Honestly I think Romans should be added as a skin to the Greeks. Swap the names around with the Roman equivalents, switch Hoplites with Legionaries, adapt the architecture and be done with it!
Meso/South-American, Mesopotamian, Celtic and Slavic would be my top guesses - in no particular order. I agree that Hindu/Vedic would be a terrible idea, and I think the same even if doing a pre-cursor/ancestor religion - it is still bound to offend a lot of people. I'd really hope they don't do Roman. It's just too close, and people already complain about Atlanteans.
" Slavic : Great options , rich history, but i dunno if people would be as excited about it " Maaaaaaan , in every movie or game russians, serbs and all slavs (especialy in cold war and break up of communist east block ) are most common enemies of west and still show 0 rage against this. Non slavic people of course will be excited. They are exicited about common slavic way of life. And fact Slavs are one of the most numerous cltural and etno - linguistic group in the world. My other suggestion is turkic, gokturk or preislamic beliefs and mythology of Turkic peoples and other central asian related etno - linguistic groups. They will have tengrism like core of the religion and culture.
The fourth civ in the Titans' expansion probably should've been the Romans. I like the Atlanteans, and they work well narratively, but it would've been pretty easy for them to craft a story around the Romans instead of the Atlanteans. It could've started the same: the Atlantean survivors discover a sky passage, but this time instead of taking them to a random island, it takes them to Italy. There they discover and help lead the Romans to greatness under Saturn. That being said, I disagree with your Roman god suggestions! The ones you propose are simply too similar to the Greeks'. Saturn, Quirinus, Mithras, Cybele, maybe the three gods of the Aventine Triad, Carmentis, should all be in as minor or major gods. Heck, they could even look into a revolution mechanic where Rome embraces Christianity, losing all their myth units and tech in exchange for some awesome buffs, some powerful God powers, and priest units that can covert others! Off hand I do not think this would work, and I'm not sure I'd like to see it in the game, but if implemented properly it would make them very different from the Greeks. I'd also like to see the Vestal Virgins implemented in some way, perhaps as the way Rome gets its favour.
Would be cool to have some that are not tied to any cultures like we had with atlanteans. One I can think of his hyberborea, which has mammoths and gnomes. Would love to recreate the war between Proto-Finnic Holy Roman Khaganate and (possibly) The Great Hwan Empire lol (not to forget the minor civilizations of this conflict, Lemurians, Neanderthals, We Wuz Kans and Aliens)
if they added Romans, it would've been cool if they used christiandom, instead of a rehashed greek pantheon, and have them and christianity work as threat/nemesis towards the other pantheons as part of a campaign. There would be an obvious problem with christianity with the lack of gods, especially major ones, but they could make it work with lets say two major "gods" God & Satan, and then have various famous angels and demons as minor gods. Would've been cool to see satanic romans haha. Romans with a greek pantheon would be too much of the same.
Sir, do you know how many Hindus work for Microsoft? Consultants are not in short supply there. Some of the devs for the game are Hindus, almost certainly, in a significant proportion.
I think instead of Sumerian, AOM should have Babylonian because Anglophone people are more familiar with the Babylonian names of Mesopotamian gods than Sumerians. Example is like Ishtar is a popular name but her Sumerian counterpart Innana: not so much
Almost I agree....almost. Aztec are super booring I am sorry they were not impressive as civilization call me all the buzz words you want but they are irl warm water during a hot day. Africa would be amazing to be coverd we kinda have some some in Egypt. Romans are overdone despite the " I think daily about the muh rome". Slavs we really need some representation in games and not only but hopre proper representation to our culture not netflix withcer. Slavs would be similar to norse but difrent at the same time. Japan...ehh...sure
I truly believe they are going to do some bullshit move with the expansions. The first one (at least in the steam page) it's saying that is gonna be the chinese (which it's already on the "base game" in a form of expansion). I won't be surprised if the second expansion is the atlanteans...
Hi, Im one of the devs for the Aztec fan mod (Return of the Gods). It would definitely be a dream come true if they do Aztecs and take inspiration from RotG.
I hope you make more civs for others pantheons. Enjoyed your vids
Why is your channel flagged as "for kids"?
HEY! An honor to have you in the comments my friend! Like I said I haven't taken a look at the mod yet so as to not bias myself, but from what everyone has told me it is a really fantastic piece of work.
Thank you so much for your contributions to the scene and to the game!
@@robbylava thanks man, well I hope you get a chance to try it, we still have more content to come for EE.
@hhattonaom9729 awesome to hear man, I definitely hope to at some point.
Are you on Discord? If so hit me up -- @robbylava. I'd love to talk to you more about your design and the process behind it.
When you brought up Tlaloc I thought of this line from AOE2:
"These warriors shall recieve the blessing of the rain god and fight with the skill of ten normal men!"
tlaloc takes much and gives little
Funny, I've seen fanmade Roman and Celt tech trees floating around. And then there's the mod that adds the Aztecs to the OG game. First time I've seen Japanese or Sumerians considered though
To me, Japanese is the obvious choice to pick first. Sumerian follows very closely. Love them both!
@@melikfratcicek Well, AoE2 had japanese and AoE3 and 4 also got them as dlcs/expansions so I really see a chance for them. And personally I would like them more like aztecs (not that i wouldn't like aztecs but japanese is above them for me).
@@danpower7416 I am more familiar with Shinto so I might be biased. I also know a bit about Aztecs and they seem cool. But I also think that Japanese could be easily tied with Chinese campaign.
@@melikfratcicek Tbh my favourite would be some kind of slavs bc i just friggin love their mythology but I'm pretty sure they won't be top of the dev's todo list because we already have many european cultures and in general I have the feeling that japanese culture and myth has been very hyped for the last few years (even the new AC takes place in japan). I'd love to see celts or slavs in the game but as I also mentioned before, besides AoE1 (correct me, if I'm wrong, didn't play this one for at least 20 years :D) every other age has japanese so I wouldn't be too surprised if they were to come at some point and yeah, they could be well connected to the chinese pantheon (like the og campaign kinda connected all the three old civs).
You know, when thinking what culture that would be possible for this game, I completely forgot about the Romans. Also, yeah, Hindu myth is cool, but would be extremely hard to add without offending anyone. Also, out of all of the civ to add, I am the most excited for Sumerians as I just think the Epic of Gilgamesh is cool, as well as funny.
for japanese i would kinda want them to be more Food heavy since in the past rice was used as currency as well as offerings to their gods, soo even there i could suggest that the main way for them to gain favor would be setting their shrines as a collectionpoint for food (which would get transformed in to favor). also considering that japan was very isolated in the past, i would remove/nerf/delay trade But they could gain gold later on from farming favor
This is a really cool idea. I actually quite like some elements of this suggestion a lot.
A way to implement Hindu religion in the game is to use Vedic Hinduism which is older and VERY different from today's Hindusim which really should be common sense because you can't have such an old religion without it changing a lot.
Yes exactly!!! Was just thinking this the other day. The Vedic pantheon is much different than the Hindu pantheon. Indra, Agni, and Varuna as major gods along and a variety of minor gods to go along with them
I reckon Brahma, Vishnu and shiva would be the major ones
@abhaychaudhuri5636 no those are the Hindu Trimurti. The 3 main gods of Vedism are Indra, Agni, and Varuna. Different older Indian religion
@@jeffk862 Early Vedism was less interesting than the successor faith, sadly, once Later Vedism (mutated into Hinduism) gave birth to two important epics namely Mahabharata and Ramayana, and early Hindu expansionist polities (Magadha Empire under the Haryankas around 600-500s BCE) emerged. The Magadha Empire under the Mauryas gave birth to the Arthashastra codex/treatise.
Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva demoted Indra (rain and storms), Agni (fire and the sun) and Varuna (seas and the sky), and the new Trimurti have their Tridevi consorts Lakshmi (fortune and fertility), Saraswati (knowledge and the arts) and Parvati (love and beauty).
I had another friend point this out to me after I launched the video. Such a clean way of doing it!
If I were to redo the video now knowing this, I would probably put them at number two or three
Zoroastrian Persia also feels like a prime candidate. Would be the best way we could get Jinn into the game.
There was a policy of not using religions which are still around in fear of not offending someone.
Well, that was before the Chinese at least
@@Timberwolf139 that is unlikely since that was a dualistic religión with only two gods
@@papermaniac yes and no. Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu are the two big ones, but there were plenty of other minor deities that were revered or feared, the Ahuras and Daevas respectively (one of the Ahuras, Mithras, I think either supplanted Ahura Mazda or was still worshipped in some capacity as a head god, even was syncretized by the Romans, but I am pulling this bit about Mithras from Imperator Rome, so take this with a grain of salt and verify yourself).
I had the idea Ahura Mazda was the only major god you could pick, but you had a bigger pool of minor gods to pull from, maybe even a few from the other players/pantheons to symbolize the Achaemenid religious tolerance.
As the other comment mentioned, Zoroastrianism is still practiced today, so that's more likely to prevent it from being represented in the game like Hinduism and possibly Shinto
Zoroastrianism is an Axial age religion. Polytheism existed in Persia before 500 B.C.
As long as the two main entities, the benign and the malignant, are not mentioned, there is no way for any Zoroatrist to be offended. Not even a Sassanid Zoroatrist would care about that.
@ZS-rw4qq Which is impossible given that none of those ancient religions are entirely dead.
I'm personally a Hellenic Polytheist, I know many Norse Pagans, and I know Egyptian revialism is alive and well. (Though I've never personally met any.)
To say nothing of the fact that these days, especially on the internet, there will always be somebody offended by something, no matter how trivial.
Personally, I'd love to see Christian mythology put into the game just to watch the ensuing meltdown, but I am also kind of an a$$hole. 😂😂😂
Another possibility is ancient Persia, persia would make sense since it has waged war with Creeks in history, they also have very rich mythology to get inspiration from.
Completely agree. They would be a top five for me personally, I just see them as less likely unfortunately
Its mythology has great heroes even Rustam's story set in shahname could a campaign by itself.
I'll Write my thoughts here as I watch this video.
- First of all, it's great to see AoM content here. Couldn't be happier.
- Re:Gaels/Celts. One big thing about the core 3 groups is that they cover "popular" myth groups rather easily. Egyptians are basically Brandon Frasier's Mummy, the Greeks are Jason and the Argonauts, and the Norse are well, Vikings, Wagnerian in all their horned/winged helmet glory. All 3 are also very visually and thematically distinct. Greeks have the Gray hills and lush Mediterranean grass, with their Marble columns and red shingle roofs, Egyptians have their Sandy dunes and their rocky cliffs, with buildings of Sandstone decorated with colorful artwork. The Norse have their green pines and endless snow, and their buildings of Cobble and Wood.
This brings me to the idea of new Civs. While many are vaguely similar with "celts/gaels" and can grasp druids, I think they aren't as catchy in terms of their pop culture and common knowledge. Everybody knows Thor, Valkyries, Mummies, Pyramids, Cyclops, Hoplites. What's the last big franchise or media piece that featured Gaelic myth? Think of the normies, not mythpilled nerds like us. Also, how would you visually distinguish the Celts from the Norse? I know irl the two are fundamentally different groups, but the do overlap in terms of "Burly Barbarians from the woods who live in wood and thatch huts and have wings/horns on their helmets." I know it's a reduction of the gaels, the distinction here is not as strong as the base game civs.
- Roooomeeee. I wouldn't mind, had Atlanteans not exist already. Having a third grecko-roman civ is perhaps a bit much. Their biggest issue wouldn't be their mechanics, as actually I think they would be very distinct mechanically just lookin at their history, but as you said, their lack of distinct myth units and flavor is what would hurt them most. I actually agree with your points that they overlap too much with the Atlanteans.
- My Suggestions for Rome would be to have Consuls as fighting heroes, who'd be randomly named after famous Roman war leaders. You can have two at a time and they support your army much like the praetor. To buff them, however, and to showcase a real part of Roman religion that is thematically, mythically, and historically appropriate, I'd suggest the Augur as the second hero. Romans were very superstitious and the outcome of many a battle were decided to them ahead of time. Augury was a vital part of their culture and I think it'd be great to showcase it. I am clueless as to how, especially without stepping on the toes of either the priest or the oracle.
- Sumer! Or Babylonians. Or Assyria. Or Persia. Or the Levant. Basically, any Fertile crescent group to complete the glaring hole. I think they will make them a more general and choose one of the main local pantheon (Babylonian is an option too) but otherwise use myth units and human units from various other fertile crescent cultures. This wouldn't be that much of an issue IMHO as the huge overlap between the various cultures exists IRL as well. How many biblical demons are Babylonian? How much did Persian Zoroastrianism affect the Jewish fate? I think the overlap is justifiable and fine, especially seeing how the Norse, Egyptians and Atlanteans already do it to one extent or another.
- I do not think they would be that similar to Egyptians. A proper fertile crescent civ, with a bronze age feel would be much more distinct. Firstly, Ziggurats are cool. You can make them visually distinct from the Egyptian stuff by using darker brick and later transitioning to the colored bricks you see in Babylon. I think you can actually lean into a bit into them being similar to the Egyptians and make that an advantage rather than a disadvantage by contrasting them. God-Kings who serve as combat buffers rather than economic buffs, grain-counting scribes who oversee your economy instead of priests, etc. Also give them Heavy Melee-Chariots to contrast Egypt's Chariot Archers. Compare and Contrast, basically.
-Oh, ok, Glad to see we're actually basically on the same page here re: God Kings, Chariots, and Temple Bureaucracies.
- Ah, yes, Riyujin. God of Psychotropic Fish and Cyberpunk. Wait, no.
- Hindu Can def. Work, easily. Perhaps lean more into Vedic roots rather than modern hinduism. That way you can avoid stepping on toes? I'm unfamiliar tho. Polynesians and Yaruba would work, but I'm afraid they don't have the Mass appeal needed for a game like this sadly. Same with Slavs, plus you'd be stepping visually and gameplay wise on many Norse elements, and from a Slavic perspective I am afraid perhaps too much Slavic myth has been reduced to fairy tales in the post-Christian world? Think Koshei, Baba-Yaga, Russalkas, etc. So both too similar to Norse, and a bit too hard to take seriously if done in-correctly.
- And yes, I Agree the next civ is probably Aztecs. But if not them, probably Babylonians/Summerians. Because imho they are the 2nd most recognizable mythology choice by proximity to Egyptian and Greek stuff, and also irl to the Bible and Demonology and horror (Apzu, Tiamat, Dagon, etc.). They have the most pop-culture presence on this list other than Aztecs and Japanese.
- Final notes: I think there could be genuinely a case be made for "pairings" of civs. Take civs that are thematically, geographically, and gameplay-wise similar or otherwise overlap, and pair them with each other. Greeks and Romans, Aztecs and Atlanteans (only because Atlanteas have some meso-vibes, really), Norse and Celts or Slavs, Egyptians and Sumerians, Japanese and Chinese. This allows you to not have to reinvent the wheel each time, re-use *some* assets and frameworks between civs, and make sure a choice feels thematically correct. This is a great way to justify adding many civs, while still keeping some semblance of uniqueness. 10 civs, some which overlap is fine. Makes each civ less unique, but they crossed that line with Atlanteans.
-So TL;DR I think actually there is a case to add *all* of the civs in this list . Greeks, Egyptians, Norse, Atlanteans and Chinese and then having the Romans, Sumerians/Babylonians, Gaels/Slavs, Aztecs and Japanese. Great video, as always.
"What's the last big franchise or media piece that featured Gaelic myth?"
I'd say every adaptation of King Arthur does that to a degree. And Asterix had Gauls, so if there was a broader Celtic civ, it could draw from both.
@@TheBeastCH Arthurean legend has been toroughky anglicized, and the Gaels and Gauls overlap but aren't the same, tho I guess a general "celtic" civ does have a better chance of being represented than a "gaelic"/"irish" one.
@@TheBeastCHThe Fate Series by Type-Moon: Cú Chulainn, Diarmuid and Scáthach
@royasturias1784 yeah, I dont think the Fate series is what we'd call normie media.
@@ConscriptDavid Cease your spoilsport behavior, normie. I must invite Fate/GO players here when the Celts culture is officially announced by MS themselves.
Personally for Romans, I would make their gimmick being having soldiers that train slow but you get a bunch at once and units are generally slow and strong but you cna build roads to speed up units a great deal, at the cost of also speeding up enemies, but not as much.
Very creative!
I think you could also mention the Carthage/Fenician civ. I think they would be a cool add on, maybe not top3 but close enough. If we look how devs originally thought is that they want as diverse and distinguish from other civs as possible so the Celts, Romans and even Japanese could be more further project
Anyway, for me the top3 (aside of Chineese) would be: 1. Aztecs, 2. Sumerians 3. Hindu but i also love the idea of Slavs, Japanese and Celts.
I think Aztecs or Mayan culture would make very interesting faction for the Age of Mythology. It's lesser known but very interesting. Even if it's lesser known mythology and does not wield bronze armor their mythical creatures could be Apocalyptically strong. They have their unique temple pyramid architecture and sacrificial culture to appease the gods. It would create a unique sacrifice-driven faith system.
Very cool video but I really think the romans are unlikely for many points : (Note : im someone who is a huge rome fan)
-1 : They are too close to greeks (architecture, pantheons, monsters and overhaul culture). Of course they have a tons of differences if we go in the detail so it could still work in paper, but why add Rome when you can add civilisations that are way more different ? Even their armies in the earlier ages were closer to what greeks was.
-2 : Like you said, Atlanteans re-use greek/roman stuff, so it goes even more in that direction.
-3 : It is true that Rome has a clear mythologic/religious theme, but unlike Greece they are more linked to ''modern antiquity history'' (by modern im talking the opposite of archaic age of Greece that led to a lot of speculation/myths, and Arkantos campaign is during trojan war for example, so it's archaic setting if we talk about real life history : something unclear and dark.) we have way more sources for Romans (or classical but mainly hellenic eras for the greeks) and most of their military that we know is kind of late for a ''mythology'' setting. Of course it's a game so anything can happens but... when I think about roman legions im not thinking of them fighting monsters, but more historical enemies. Even the republic era troops...
The best ''era'' for rome to have it's own ''myth'' is monarchy and rome fondation, but at this time they are very close to the greeks and etruscans culturally. And it goes with my last sentence of point 1 : archaic/monarchy era units are very close to greeks.
-4 : Like you said, very focused on europe. We already have 2 europeans civs, 1 that could be linked to it (atlantean) and even egyptian is very linked to europe historically despite being more ''eastern''.
-5 : If we get greek/atlantean dlc that focus the greco/roman pantheon (because atlanteans is greek mythology but extended to ''titans'' and anything that is non-olympian during Zeus reign), I think more myths units will be eaten by thoses gods. So more ''roman mythicals'' units that could fit could be in there instead of Rome. Since Freyr is there and I think they plan to do this type of DLC it for more pantheons, yeah...
As a Rome fan, im fine playing them in Age of Empires or others games :) I would have loved something with romans, but I think it's too complicated and not a priority. At best I think the only option to get Rome is a reskin of greeks units maybe (and different names) ? But this would be a shame and very poor. Im not saying that they won't try to include Rome, it's still possible but I don't really see how. So as a huge fan of Rome, I don't want Rome to be the the fifth wheel of the coach...
I think it's better sometime to not having something to have something bad.
The Yoruba myths would be so cool! Shango, god of Thunder, Ogun, god of iron and war, Yemoja, goddess of the sea, Oya, goddess of the winds, Eshu, the trickster god etc. Yeah, they'd have to be careful and do it in a respectful way...but if they could do it for Japan than why not for West Africa? I don't know if they'll come before the Aztecs, but I'd love to see them eventually!
As an italian I dare to say that your roman proposal could be spiced up with other italic civs wiped out by the romans, like etrurians and nuragic fortresses. Also using Virgil's aenid as sources for heroes instead of homer. Like the egyptian civ is already a "best of" of various phases of a millennia long real civilization
Completely agree with you. If I were designing the Romans myself I would probably do so, but this video was trying to go for a guess of what I thought was most likely, and if I'm honest I just don't have faith that the design team wouldn't do something lazy if they were trying to implement the Romans in the game, even if there is tons of potential beyond that.
@@robbylava I mean the team has to keep in mind stuff that has to work in a lot of scenarios, but so far the approach the took seemed to rebalance the game to emphasize what is weird about AoM, like fighting the old "non-myth" meta that the previous iteration took. maybe a roman civ could be a way to preserve that older game style with less focus on favor. maybe Use it as a chance to do the "what if romans did the industrial revolution before 476" thing. IDK if you played the under-rated masterpiece "rise of legends" but imagine them going like the "vinci" civilization with leonardo crazy inventions (altough they were already used in age of empires 3).
Can we expect a video about the fourht norse god? and what will be your options for a fourth titan, egyptian and greek main god? I think that adding a 4th major god is a way to further expand the game in years to come, since I doubt they did a full remake to stop at just two dlcs.
@matteodigallo561 quite creative! Not the direction I would take it, but I could maybe see there being a place for such a faction in the game. Would definitely be better than the stupid Atlanteans.
You can absolutely expect all of the above and more to be discussed over the coming months and beyond! I'm not 100% sure how I will approach all of the topics yet, but I for sure have the AOM bug at this point and don't intend to cure myself of it anytime soon.
@@robbylava I mean in the xbox livestream from gamescom they called it a "new kind of dlc" so there will be def a fourth main god for atlanteans, greeks, egyptians, taoists and whater they will came up for sixth pantheon. It's absurd the idea that in a year we will go from 12 major gods to 24.
Unorthodox idea but the Romans could also have a sort of "revolution mechanic" like in aoe3 where they become monotheistic and reject their original god. Since this ultemalty happened with the rise of christianity. however christianity wasnt the only non-roman religion in the late roman empire (3rd to 6th century ad) that had a strong following, other cults where also immensly popular, like that of isis and sol invictus. To represent this each of the original major gods have this monotheistic gods to whom the players can switch to in the mythic age, as an alternative to the titan age, same as in aoe3 for industrial and imperial age. Giving new mechanics and a completely different and especially more aggressive playstyle. for Jupiter this would be Sol invictus, for Minerva Mithras and for Juno Isis. No christianity since that is still a widely practised religion and could cause controversy.
As a Gaelic Polytheist who would LOVE a Gaelic culture or even a Celtic one would be a win for me, but as a Gaelic Polytheist I personally would be super against playable Fomorii for religious reason. I also think the best picks for Major Gods, would be The Dagda (thats a given) Lugh and Brigid, Or The Dagda, Nuada and The Morrigain, or some combination of the three. I do kind of think the best three are the High Kings of The Tuatha De Dananan which are The Dagda, Nuada and Lugh. I think that is the best triad for major gods ultimately.
Big 3: The Dagda, The Mórrigan, Lúgh (+ Danu who is the big mama of the TDD)
Others: Nuada Airgetlám, Dian Cécht, Ogma, Brigid, The Cailleach, Áine (awn-yuh), Aengus mac Óg, Manannán mac Lir, Ériu, Flidais, the Trí Dée Dána (Goibniu, Creidhne and Luchtaine), Donn (of the Milesians)
First of all, very nice presentation and awesome ideas. I found two things in your presentation that i would kinda ''disagree'' with.
First: the roman god guesses. There are so many interesting gods that were worshipped in ancient rome way before they adopted the greek pantheon to their own deities so your choices seem to look a little bit ''weak'' in my eyes. And gods like Mars and Quirinus should be two of the major gods in this case (but that's just subjective, i know). And i would be really happy to see gods like Justitia, Fortuna, Terminus, Bellona, Pomona etc... for the romans in the game too. There lies a rich and independent mythology in ancient rome.
Second: (I know you stated it's a subjective choice from your side, aswell as my disagrement) but in a game about the ancient times a ''mainland celtic'' civ like the gaulish celts with gods like Teutates, Cernunnos, Taranis, Artaios, Epona etc. would fit better for AoM. They would have a very prominent connection to the Romans aswell.
BUT yes i know i'm just super subjective and just a nerd who wants his favorite stuff in one of his favorite pc games haha.
General speaking i love you list. It includes kinda all of my three biggest wishes: Romans, Mesopotamians and Celts. (Japanese and Aztecs would also be cool)
Very cool and interesting video anyway. Love your content and i'm looking really forward to Retold. Have a nice day :)
Completely reasonable opinions!
My Roman picks were based entirely off of who I have seen to be most important to them (hence the capitoline triad as the major gods), but I could see bringing in some of their more obscure and unique gods as well to help differentiate them better.
Mainland Celts / Gauls would also be awesome. Like I mentioned, I only specified the Gaels because of my own personal biases hehehehe. I actually think that mainland Celts or (much to my displeasure) an umbrella civ containing all Celts would be much more likely.
Thanks so much for taking the time to watch! I'm really glad you enjoyed the video and I had a great time reading your thoughts.
I like that idea of garrisoning civilians for the Romans, It would be cool to implement it in many more aspects of the civ, like sacrifices could be integrated in more areas than favor generation for the Aztecs.
Also, I really like your idea of upgrading temples, it should be implemented in different ways in more civs. Japanese shrines could be upgraded by dropping food there, you won't receive the food, but the shrine would grow in size, capabilities, and favor generation; they would be very weak and easily destroyed, so a Japanese civ would spam and hide shrines all over.
Here's a mild and not at all controversial suggestion, distinguish the Romans from the Greeks and Antlanteans by having it be Constantinian-era Christian Rome rather than Hellenic rome. Instead of a major god, you pick one of Jesus' apostles, or maybe one of the other major early figures in Christianity. Maybe you could go for a trio of say, John the Baptist, Peter and Paul the Apostle? And then instead of minor gods you pick various saints.
Of course this is guaranteed to never happen for obvious reasons. However I do think there might be potential for some of the later-era Roman pagan stuff for something different from the Hellenic pantheon, maybe gods like Sol Invictus and Mithras rather than Jupiter and co. Might be a little trickier to come up with stuff for those, but whatever.
Stop bringing up Abrahamics, Nobel. You're inadvertently summoning the demons that you can't exorcise.
An Age of Mythology video! Sweet!
You know, when you mentioned Romans being copy cats, which admittedly they were in history, but the idea of "they will copy but worse", the idea of a culture with several methods of favor gain, but they all equally suck and there are down sides for focusing.
Though I can also see the Japanese having special designated priests that can worship at shrines, however you must turn villagers into priests which will gain a big bonus for worshipping at a shrine, however then it will become a crawl of 1 favor per minute, and thus must step away for it to rejuvenate, now for Japanese, you can make them economically special almost similar to the Egyption that is, a lot of Japanese units and structures require less gold, however in turn, require more wood, even the Samurai trades gold for wood and the samurai is an elite cav with both range and melee.
I think japanese are likely to appear but later, aztecs being first. If JP are added I'd love for the Yuki-Onna to be added as a myth unit. For major gods I was thinking more like Izanami / Izanagi and their father and Amaterasu / Tsukuyomi / Susanoo being the mythic age god options.
I would love to see classic romans, but sadlt their mythologic pantheon is just a reskin of the greek one.
See, while I would personally really hate to see the Romans in game, I disagree that they would necessarily just be a reskin! I think it's likely they would be taken in that direction, but it wouldn't necessarily be true to mythology.
While the Romans did have a lot of overlap with the Greeks of course, they treated their gods very differently, and gods that were "the same" between they and Hellenic cultures often served very different roles between them.
Plus they had a couple that the Greeks simply didn't, such as deifying many of their leaders.
So in summary, I still don't think the Romans are high on my personal list of adds, but if they were to be added it is 100% possible to make them vibrant and distinct and not just a lame Greek reskin.
romans would be similar to byzantines in aoe4. probably have a road system that prevents god power use like the egyptian statues. great vid!
Thanks my friend! Pretty cool idea
Gimme all of these!!! I also think that India/Hinduism would be a fantastic addition to AoM. They could do something similar to India in AoE3 with their animals for favor. The more herd animals you have at your temple or just at your disposal, the more favor you generate.
I think if Romans were added, it would make the most sense to focus on gods with no Greek equivalent, or Greek equivalents not included in the game. Or if they really want to be controversial, go with Roman Christianity.
Despite particularly wanting to buy this game for the campaigns and their stories. It also looks addicting for skirmish game play particularly against other players after enough experimenting for optimistic play has been had for it too. While that doing a rework of latter OG campaigns such as for the Chinese is especially interesting to look forward to for the campaign play and story play. That as well as further uniqueness of PVP skirmish play. Instead of just removing them lazy tense. It is after all AOM Retold that does not have to keep with the rough narrative of the OG tales of the dragon for the purpose of a remake after all.
If done well like you say too in your own words for any new civilisations. Then it would turn out very awesome. That also included with quality campaigns for each one of the civilisations would be further exciting. Here is a list of Ideas. Some of which are what you already mentioned as well.
Classic Civilisations.
1 Greece.
2 Egypt.
3 Norse.
4 Atlantis.
5 China.
New Civilisation expansion Ideas.
6 Rome.
7 Gaul.
8 India.
9 Korea.
10 Maya ( BC Aztec and Inca )
11 Assyria.
12 Persia.
13 Ethiopia.
Other Possible Civilisations that would complement the BC time frame and world of Age of Mythology.
14 Arabia.
15 Phoenicia.
16 Syria.
17 Celts ( The Gaul's were more or less ancient of the france region with Celtics being Hallstatt and the Emerald Island peoples and the rest of the main land Germanic peoples )
18 Summer ( Atlantis in game definitely makes summer a might as well for both the campaign and skirmish too )
I know people like to pretend it doesn't exist (even though I think it's a very good game and still play it occasionally) but you can use _Age of Empires Online,_ which is set around the same sort of time, as a template. Aside from the AoM civs, it has the Romans, the Celts, the Babylonians, the Persians and (eventually) the Indians. Also, considering the changes they made to AOE3, the devs probably want to throw a Native American civ in there somewhere so there'll probably be something like the Olmecs.
Can't wait for the Christianity expansion. Too bad they only have 1 major god, but their hero is jesus and when he dies he comes back for free after 3 minutes.
They get favor by having villagers garrison in a temple and taking 10% of all the gold every villager gathers.
One of the god powers could be giving cancer to villagers or something.
We also could have the apostles as heroes, but be careful with judas if you have him and jesus on the same control group jesus dies.
I think Babylonians would be more likely than Sumerians because they're more familiar.
Hi Robby! Nice to see you on the AoM topic. For your civilizations I would say
- Gaels => 100% agree... if you take the whole Celts. AoM is designed around big civilization blocks so the Celts would have more sense than just a fraction of them.
- Romans => No way. I really don't want to see them in the game. For me they have nothing to do here.
- Sumerians => A great choice. I would like to see them alongside with the Mesopotamians (all the Semites living in Mesopotamia).
- The Japanese are an obvious choice. That doesn't mean that it's a bad idea. One day or another, they will be in the game.
- Of course the Aztecs. I guess that they will be the next to be added. And for the sacrifices, your idea is good but what if you could sacrifice an enemy unit who would bring more favors to you. I don't know, 1 of your villagers gives you 1 favor and an enemy villagers gives you 2. Such a system should be added.
Really well made video yet again. I would love to see either Sumerians or Aztecs in the game, really appealing.
Thank you so much for saying so my friend!
I would love to have some kind of sumerian/mesopotamian civ in AOM, they are very unique due to their age and geographical distance
How is nobody mentioning the Persians? They fit into the setting almost perfectly, and could do some great historical homages and recreations of conflicts between them and the Greeks. Battles of Thermopylae and Salamis levels, anyone? Not to mention it would allow for the use of characters like Xerxes and Cyrus.
Major Gods:
Ahura Mazda(King of The Gods)
Mithra (God of The Rising Sun, Covenants, Contracts, and Kingship). Could do Ardvi Sura Anahita instead if we feel there needs to be a female major god, and she's the most important of those.
Angra Mainyu (Principle of Evil, Chaos, and Discord)
Yes, it's very much a Ra, Isis, Set dynamic going on here. Mithra I believe is an inspiration for Horus and the two cultures did have crossover and commonality between eachother. The Huma Bird and the Phoenix are basically the same thing. I think the Persians militarily and mythologically are distinct enough though to be their own thing. Do some googling and you'll see they have more than enough interesting other gods to fill out the minor god slots. Zurvan,
They also have a very rich mythology to draw upon for myth units.They fill a (somewhat) similar niche while being overall more developed to the Sumerians.
Sure, it means no Gilgamesh, but we get Azhi Dahaka(Evil Three headed Dragons), Simurgh (Guardian Dog-Headed Bird, personification of virtue)The Primordial Bull, (Hell, we already have manticores in the game and they're a Persian monster), the Al(Nocturnal baby-eating monster in the shape of an old woman. Sounds terrifyingly awesome), Shahmaran (Snake-Queen and essentially the inspiration for Nagas) and of course, Djinn!(Otherwise known as GENIES!) Who doesn't want genies in AoM?
Also, they definitely have public awareness with movies like 300, and Persian myth has come up in some form all over media. And of COURSE, there's the Immortals. I could see the Persians doing a crapstacking strategy when it comes to military. I feel like we KIND OF have that with the Norse with Ulfsarks but this would be more extreme. A lot of weak, cheap, and low-pop units with strong myth units and other special heroes to support them. Favor likely gained through slavery or indentureship of some form, or even based on constructing new buildings.
If the Romans were added, an Imperial cult system for their gods would be interesting.
While I think the Romans shouldn't be prioritised because of Eurocentric/Graecoromancentric reasons (looking at you Atlantis), I have to heavily object calling them cheap and out of place. This sentiment comes from the misinformed ideo of roman religion being a copy of the greek one. I think there are some great ways to implement the Romans: focus on early rome with Romulus & Remus as the focus of the civ or go full Imperial with deification of Emperors and the new Gods that got introduced to the empire (Sol Ivictus, Mithras, ...). My favourite version would be a combination of the two: the Starting gods ar the same you proposed (Iuppiter, Minerva, Iuno) but as you pass through the ages you progress from Ianus, Bellona etc. to the classical gods like Mars, Hercules etc. and end with Sol Invictus and the deifyed emperors. I agree that Romans should hava a more human unit focus and to give a nod to the adaptability of the Romans make them be able to recruit mythical units from other civilisations.
I genuinely couldn't agree with you more! Like I said in the video, I think there are ways to do the civilization right and to actually make it extremely fun and unique, I'm just not particularly confident that, if added, that would be what was done with them.
If they were bold they could make Iehowa one of their late game options, going monotheistic (like a revolution in aoe3) but that would bring the same difficulties as Hinduism.
32:22 For me (a Slav myself) Slavs suffer from being too similar to the Norse like the Celts. But it is a potentially big market though
Japan is definitely my most wanted, but I don't see it happening for some reason.
An African one will come, undoubtfully, though if done like AOE 2 did, I'm cool with it.
I am from slavic region and i will tell you something.Slavic mythology and Norse mythology are so similar it is crazy.Thor is basically Perun, Odin is Svarog, Loki is Veles,same or similar concept so i dont even know if people would be interested in that.All "barbarian" pagans from Europe , have so similar mythology that it makes you wonder actually.
Yep! Probably down to Proto-Indo-European roots, though of course that is debatable
@@robbylava There is for sure something that bonds all of those mythologies.
You know, I'd really like a Gael or some kind of Druidic faction.
rome could also work with a concept similar to AOE3's consulate in regards to myth units ( the whole adopting teritories pantheons into their own )
Incans mayans or Aztec would be sick with their mythical creatures
I know it's imposible, but do you know what would be extremelly cool for you to do? A Christian pantheon, it would be extremelly small, with, well, just 1 major god, but several minor gods could be the archangels and other beings, with heroes as disciples and saints as mythological units, imposible to put in the game but would honestly be a great challenge and most probably a great pantheon
Dozens upon dozens of people have requested it, so I'm going to try to find a way to make it work without being completely sacrilegious! Just might take a little while to get to.
@@robbylava nah make it as sacriligical as possible, it's not going in the game so you can be as real as you want, maybe in the future you can make a mark2 and tame the original a little bit xd
I say fuck it give Judaism with Moses throwing hands.
I assume they will go with Romans since imo they would be the easiest to sell
didnt expect to see polynesians…. or even micronesians too…. def would support
On the matter of the Celts, I'd say they should go Gaels and nothing more, the other continental Celts are too broad and over the place, or we simply don't know much about them, rather stick to something they can make justice to. A shame to miss out on Cernunnos who doesn't appear in Gaelic mythology if I'm not mistaken tho.
I don't really like the Romans as a mythological faction, they had their own mythos, kinda and religion and it was distinct and all but they started to link and smash it with the Greeks too early on. Interpretatio graeca was the worst shit they ever did to themselves but it is what it is... Plus rather see some other stuff from out of Europe.
For the rest of the rest I quite like.
On the matter of Hindus tho, they have been really touchy of depctions of their faith in videogames, looking at Smite specifically, so it could be hard.
I think there is more potential for Celtic factions than just in the British Isles, but I would agree that the Gaelic peoples are probably the highest priority.
Solid take on the Romans 2, especially the interpretatio Graeca -- couldn't have said it better myself.
You underestimate how many Witcher fans would love to see all these usual foes as a playable units instead
You are completely right. Another comment mentioned this as well, how could I possibly have forgotten about the Witcher!?
I think catholic would be awesome too though, Bayonetta showed it to have some interpretations that could be pretty nasty myth units
You know I never thought about Bayonetta. I was really hesitant to include anything Christian adjacent, but you're completely right that she sets a pretty interesting precedent for what could be included in the game without drawing inordinate outrage.
Maybe Judaism
def aztec, gael, and slavic probaby can be added in future but atlantean already sorta involved roman so i doubt it will be added
Yeah this vid rocked. I have craved AOM content like this for years. I personally really want to see Celts for my own biased reasons, but I can't imagine that ever happening unless the upcoming expansions receive a thunderous applause and we all wash them in cash. Aztecs being the upcoming expansion does seem the likely route but I'm not particularly stoked for that compared to what else could be. Sure I've enjoyed Aztecs on AOE3 and AOE2 and there's good potential for Aztecs in AOM but I'd way rather see Sumeria first (especially with your game design ideas), or Persia, Yoruba, Hindus or Celts. Rome could work too I suppose but again, not my first choice. I just hope they continue to support the game and bring out more expansions as time goes on because AOM has deserved this love for years now.
Really appreciate you saying so my friend. I fully intend on putting out designs for all of the above and more here on the channel! Though it will certainly take a while hehehe
Good vid, I'm biased but I'd like the Celts, I feel like they'd have such an interesting roster of units, druids instead of priests, giants, elves, fairies, etc as well as fearsome human warriors
I suppose specifically im thinking Brythonic Celts, I'm from Wales so I grew up hearing the stories from the Mabinogion, about all sorts of fantastical folklore. Although, I suppose the Mabinogion was written in the medieval Christian period.
But yeah the giants, dragons, etc I feel like we have a good roster of potential myth units 😁
My proposition: CHRISTAINS
main Gods: Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, The Father
they would be based on byznantines (making them kinda like romans) and with some influence of medieval kinghts and things like Arhurian legeneds
Their thing should be a lot of converting and evangalizing other as this is what christians do and also i think they should have completely different vin con, for example finding they holy grail or waiting for the return of the messaiah,
They wouldnt have much of myth units cuz duh, mostly angels - at least 4 different types - angels, arhcangels, cherubs and seraphins
Instead of this they would have this ability to Bless human units granting them more stats, speciall abilities and turning them into myth-type units
For heroes they obviously could have saint of different types, as well as some legendary saints that are just better. Martyrs, evangelizors and knights fe.
Also why not make the Holy orders like Templars and Hospitalers another type of heroes
And i want to mention St. George specificaly as he fckin slayed the dragon
For the minor gods i would propose importnat saints and archangels, fe.: St. Archangel Michel, St. George, St. Marcus, St. Augustine and stuff like that
For the 3 last age saint i think the best trio would be like: Saint Peter, Saint Paul and Saint John, and because John wrote fckin apocalypse giv him the power of starting one and spawning 4 horseman of apocalypsce
They would gain favors for evangalizng and sacruficing martyrs, but most importanlty from building great fckin cathedrals - the player could choose how much they want to pay for them - greater cathdral is more expensive and takes longer to build but it also would generate much more favour. And then every sunday all of your cathedrals would generate favour for you.
"On the other hands": literally none, this is perfect idea, i am catholic and i would love to see this, microsoft plssss
oh and obviously jesus christ HAVE TO have ability to ressurect units
I could not find any evidence that a scorpion man was in any Egyptian myth (except for Selket). I believe they only included it because of the movie "The Mummy." And why Ebisu over Bishamon? Both are gods of wealth, but Bishamon is associated with wealth in war, while Ebisu is associated with wealth in business. Bishamon would fit better for Age of Mythology. Ebisu can work if you give him market related upgrades, but still I believe that bishamon would fit easier.
Bishamon(ten) had roots from Hinduism via the wealth god Kubera.
Ebisu is the sole member of the Shichifukujin not based from foreign faiths in Japan. Daikokuten? The Shinto pantheon has Ookuninushi for the role.
Why did you only name 6 minor gods per suggestion when we don't have the game 9 per civilization?
Other interesting civilizations besides the 5 and honorable mentions are: Maya, Incas, Hittites and Persians.
I would like an Inuit pantheon, but that is impossible.
I only mentioned six because I didn't want to wait into the weeds of what they would all look like, instead I want to save those full builds for later videos.
I think all of the proposals you have here are great, and I think there are many more besides! Inuits might actually be more viable than you think, though for me they would be a very low priority personally.
Definitely in favor of Gaels and Gauls as distinct factions, although, assuming the Tuatha de Dannan -> Aes Sidhe aren't a faction of their own, I'd favor Nuada as a major god with options to worship the succeeding kings of the Tuatha as Minors for later ages. Yes this would make the Dagda into a Minor God. Yes that is a compromise I'm not thrilled about.
I think the Romans, if included, should at least include Imperial religious developments like Sol invictus and the Imperial Cult, but I admit that that's not super likely.
Sumerians are a shoe in eventually, imo, as are Aztecs. Shinto is tricky, but plausible; I think we'd likely get a Chinese rework first. (I'm drawing the conjecture that the absence of the Chinese civ from Retold at base is a sign that the way they exist in EE is recognized as untenable) I agree that Hindu is less likely than Shinto, but more likely than something Abrahamic. I like the idea of Polynesians relying on myth units for siege, I think that's a neat niche for their design. I can't speak much to the Yoruba religious practices, but I can say that I would love to see respectful translations of African myths implemented, including Akan- specifically because I like Anansi stories.
Slavic is highly underrated, and there's probably a touch more interest than you might predict because of Neil Gaiman's American Gods drawing some attention to them.
Unmentioned, but Mongol Tengri might be a good vein to mine- though I don't know a ton about it, they'd certainly make for a neat civ, perhaps radically only having a single settlement, but with the ability to pack up the whole camp and move to a new site. Another unmentioned possibility would be the Incans.
Something I'm tempted by but probably don't want to see because I don't trust it to be respectful is most any northern Native American culture's religions. It's a shame, because the chance to learn is exciting, but just as there are concerns about Shinto, Hindu, and other living practices causing upset, given the history of cultural exploitation, I can't really endorse it unless it was 1. developed with input by and the support of experts of a particular indigenous people, 2. the native people in question would be the civ in game, and not a broader category that included other living tribes, and 3. a large chunk of the cost of the DLC went to the tribe(s) involved in perpetuity.
Tengri is a super underrated pic and one I definitely considered but thought would be much too obscure to include on the list. Would love to get to it eventually though!
It's a shame "not offending anyone" must be a consideration these days for gamedesign. I cannot think of a single game depiction of (medieval) islam or christianity NOT heavily playing into tropes. Or the played to death "noble savage" trope for any kind of tribal people... Therefore Hinuism should totally be on the table! Come and fight me for having interest in your culture, my curry munching friends!11
That said, i'd love to see the aztecs. Always had an interest in them since playing Theocracy as a child. Awesome game with horrible pathfinding and hard to get running on modern systems. Came with a dummy thick manual with a ton of (non historical?) background info to factions, hero gear items, spells, etc.
Sacrificing slaves produced "mana" for one of 5 "spheres" of magic... too spicy for modern american audiences? They are technically native american though, so modern americans shouldn't give a f*** :P
Hey, just wanted to say that I very much agree with Sumerians, Japanese and Aztecs. Sumerians are probably my most wanted Culture. Polynesians would be great as well. Also would love to see Mongolians, simply because I personally am in love with them, but I guess they have not as much of a mythology.
Tengrism is super underrated and extremely interesting! Definitely something I would want to explore eventually as well
Sorry, you lost me at "chupacabra". We have a ton of mythical creatures in the Aztec Pantheon or you can even portray minor gods from the hundreds there are. Having a modern cryptod which was a complete fake, a smoke screen for political corruption is a slap to the face for mesoamerican myth and culture enthusiasts. Still great summary and info. Hope to see the aztecs as a new Pantheon in retold.
Oh yeah, If it were up to me I would never add something like that unless I had literally ZERO other options, which is absolutely not the case for the Aztecs.
That said, while I personally wouldn't use the idea, I could totally see it being included in an official design, whether I liked it or not.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, I'm really glad you enjoyed the video!
I would like to have slavic mythology.
My second favourite AoE game gets coverage on my favourite AoE channel. Christmas in July!
As for the options, all of them, except the Romans, would be awesome if added to the game. Would also like to see more niche options added - all of the options you listed were amazing, and there are still a TON of fun cultures you could still add without things getting boring.
it would be funny if they added Christianity
I definitely would like Rome
You didn't mention the hindu japanese and buddist things present in the DS version of the game
To be honest I didn't even know there was a DS game. That would change things!
Even I would be open for and interested in Aztecs I personally don’t understand why ppl forget about Mayans so often even I think Mayans would fit even better. Your idea of Sumerians is great as I highly support to see them in AoMR aswell!! Gaels/Celts would be great too but I think you overestimate your so called „japanophelia“ cause even I watch animes and shogun I REALY think Japanese content is overused and oversaturated. I would personally more interested in Slavic culture to be added. Especially since I played a nice early access rts game called godsworn. (and ofc for all who like the Witcher series/games and it’s creatures) so my top 5 would be:
1 . Mayan(Aztec) 2. Sumerian 3. Slavic 4. „Celts“ 5. either Yoruba or maybe just maybe Japanese
I didnt know i wanted the romans as a civ until you brought it up and i have some alternative ideas to how theyd play.
Like you said id make them very human centric in their military with lots of trash units eventually transitioning into heavy infantry and advanced siege units late game.
Instead of having them mimic the favor generation of their enemies id instead have their favor generation be based on offerings and sacrifices at a temple, say you deposit 100 food youd get like 10 favor and a very small trickle for awhile scaling with how much you put in much like the italian building(whos name evades me rn) in aoe3 where you invest resources to get a trickle of gold. I would then tie this to a large civ wide mechanic where you have a scale from -100 to 100 with a pendulum that will travel from one end to the other before turning around and going the other way, 0 to 100 would provide civ wide buffs to everything while 0 to -100 would debuff everything. This is tied to the favor generation by the speed the pendulum travels at being tied to how many resources you currently have invested at the temple, this would give you some strategic initiative to try and speed through a down period or speed up to 100 for a large battle. This is inspired by the practice the romans had of sacrificing livestock to try and predict the outcome of a battle or campaign. There are some massive defeats the romans suffered after ignoring the bad vibes that still resulted in an eventual roman triumph maybe suggesting that the sacrifices didnt produce an immediate effect but instead pushed the needle over to them gradually
The second big mechanic id give them would be in how they tech through their armory, i would make it so that progress to better armor and weaponry be directly tied to combat with different opponents giving different amounts of research progress(fighting lots of Egyptian infantry could provide benefits to armor to outlast them while fighting greek hoplites would give you better shields as you steal them)
One last thing i might do is make one of the major patron gods apollo in reference to romes possible origin of refugees fleeing troy whos most worshipped patron god was apollo
The armory idea is absolutely sick, I genuinely love that. Might steal it, with your permission!
@@robbylava of course!
If the do the Romans they should go all in on the mysteries for example Mithras, Serapis, and Isis. They could also gain favor the celebrations and feast somewhat like the Native Americans in Aoe 3.
can i get a link to the aoe 2 polynesians video you did i cant find it on your channel
You got it my friend
th-cam.com/video/L2KqFm28EcE/w-d-xo.html
Doesn't really hold up to the quality of my more recent work, but I still think there's some good stuff to be found there!
12:33 Etruscans would be a good alternative to the Romans and be more properly Italic, I think making the Trojans a proper culture would be badass (and they have Roman ties in myth)
Etruscans are awesome. And I genuinely think that the Trojan angle could be super legitimate as well.
@@robbylava Yeah and could tie them in with the Cybellines and other odd/forgotten Anatolian peoples like the Lydians
Aztec or Mayans will be added. But I fear they will add it as Mesoamerican to include Olmecs, Tlaxcala and other cultures in the region.
I would be happy with an umbrella "mesoamericans" civ if it was represented correctly.
@@ahmicqui9396 I would also be happy with this, as long as they keep Incas separate for a potential future addition.
They don't really have cavalry or anything comparable. That would be something they'd have to compensate for. Fast-moving anti-archer units...
@@TheBeastCH It's AOM, so the cavalry can be anything, even extra large water possums (Ahuizotl)
@@ahmicqui9396 that would be a myth unit.
I'm thinking human units. As by the rules AoM sets, having one of the three pillars of human soldiers taken over by myth units would render human armies more vulnerable to heroes, as heroes get bonus damage against myth units.
Not going to lie I actually do kind of find your Fey sub idea interesting in its own right because I feel like you could also do a lot with fictional/non-human cives as well even if they potentally have less to work with.
Glad you enjoyed it! I absolutely agree. That was part of the reason I mentioned it heheheh
@@robbylava Part of the thing I find interesting about AOM is that the mixture of History and... well Mythology and how that impacts things. For instance even with your Rome idea I imagine AOM Green would be unconquered for a lot longer.
I really want to see Gaels
Personally I always liked the idea of using the deified emperors for the Roman gods.
YES PLEASE THE SUMERIANS
Great ideas all round. I feel like the Aztecs are more likely than the others to become the brand new civilization that will be included with Retold. The reason I say this is because the Aztecs are already a main staple of some of the other Age games, mainly AOE2 & 3. A lot of the Aztec unit models and buildings already exist in AOE3 Definitive Edition, and they can be ported onto AOM Retold. In terms of economics, that would save the devs a lot of time and effort because it means they won't have to recreate some of the models from scratch. They just have to work on designing the gods and add new mechanics to this civ to make it viable for AOM.
However, there are several problems with the Aztecs that I think will put them at a disadvantage to every other civ so far in the game. For example, the Aztecs will lack cavalry, siege equipment and even pack animals to conduct trade. I suppose their trade unit can be a human as they never domesticated any beasts of burden. But when it comes to the lack of cavalry and siege units, that's going to affect gameplay a lot more. This can be resolved by simply making Aztec foot soldiers move faster on average. Lets say, Eagle and Jaguar Warriors have higher speed than Greek hoplites or Egyptian slingers, but still move slower than cavalry units. This can be expressed by them sprinting instead of marching while on the move. As for siege, they could also get a portable rams like the Norse or even have a unit that throws torches at buildings like the Indian arsonist from AOE3. They can even let a certain number of their infantry do greater damage to buildings to make up for this deficit.
I also like your idea of giving Aztec elite units a bonus against myth units. Because I think the Aztec hero should be not that different from the explorer/warchief unit featured in AOE3. Similar to the Egyptians, I think the Aztecs should just have one unique hero. But unlike the pharaoh, the warchief is purely a military unit but a pretty tanky one even compared to the Greek heroes. Maybe just like how its done in AOE3, the Aztec warchief can get a health and attack bump whenever the player advances into a higher age. They could even have special abilities like a special cool down attack, and can act more like a campaign unit where when they are killed, they go into 'wounded' mode until friendly units resuscitate them.
The war chief unit is called Tlatoani, who I can see him change war banners (Pamitl) sporting a different aura each depending on the situation. Warrior Priests act as secondary melee Hero units and also healers via research (Coyote Warrior Priests having a build limit)
The Aztec troops could use some Dual Mode gimmicks (melee to ranged and vice versa), excluding the Cuachicqueh that are counterparts to Zeus Myrmidons and the Otontin as the finest Archers of the army.
They should have a special team dedicated to hijacking enemy siege engines (and also enemy warships); it's like the Traitor God Power but as a human soldier team (think GLA Hijackers or the Yuri Clones)
Copper/Bronze/Iron/further alloy Weapons and Armor upgrades can be substituted for Obsidian-related upgrades and the like that befit their tech pride, mainly because Mesoamerican military metalworks was not widespread.
In AoE III I always used the Aztecs and I will say that the lack of cavalry or siege equipment wasn't a problem. And I agree , they can have a unique hero like Egyptians, the "Tlatoani".
@@abrahamayala5789 Same. I love their playstyle. I just realized that in AOM, they will get myth units to make up for their lack of cavalry and siege units.
The game Smite has used the hindu gods. So it is possible
That's actually an excellent point, I hadn't thought about that. Do you know if there have been any controversies surrounding that? Or any changes made to make those representations more palatable?
Additionally, do you know if these are Hindu deities that are still prominent today or are they Vedic representatives who are not as relevant to the modern religion?
Apologies for all the questions, totally fine if you don't know. I'm just very interested in hearing more since I hadn't thought about this example at all until you brought it up.
incas would be nice too
If we were to get a RobbyLAVA breakdown of any of these proposed civs/cultures, I'd definitely want to see the Gaels first and foremost. Not because I think they're the most likely inclusion (they're definitely behind Japanese and Aztecs), but because I'm an Eireboo and would want to see how your ideas/conceptions of Irish myth compare to my own.
About the Chupacabra myth unit for the Aztec, I think no because that’s a Puerto Rico myth story, not a Mexican, or Aztec myth story, I know it was also spotted in Mexico in later years, but it was mainly discovered in the 1992- 95 more or less in Puerto Rico, and the Aztec empire didn’t exist by that time. Although if we are thinking what the Atlantean have with Rome in Myth units then I get it, but at the same time I don’t see the Chupacabra being a Myth unit for the Aztecs.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, it would be absolute nonsense If it were added, completely unfitting in every possible way.
BUT, I still think it's actually quite possible to be added, considering Age Of Mythology (and the rest of the Age franchise) focuses much more on Pop culture perceptions of the civilizations in cultures they cover rather than the actual history and mythology behind it.
I personally think this is a short sighted design philosophy and don't like it at all, but since this video was predictive rather than prescriptive I thought it was a good guess to make, even if I didn't personally like it.
@@robbylava don’t worry it was a good episode to see and it was enjoyable, thanks for the video, and hopefully AOM gets a lot of love like AOE2 is getting, love to see different myth units from every culture.
Hey, thank you so much for the kind words man! Really appreciate you saying so, and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Hope I explained myself well!
I was absolutely convinced the Romans would be in the expansion too!
I'm glad I wasn't the only one!
I love that you made a Power Point Presentation for the video. Needs more pictures tho!
Hehehe thanks! These sort of presentations have kind of become my brand over the years lol
I've actually had commenters in the past tell me that they preferred when I used FEWER pictures so I can keep my videos more information dense, but I'm glad you've given me another data point to consider for future. I'll try my best to integrate a few more!
How could you not have mentioned Persians bro... one of the coolest and least covered cultures/mythologies and directly relevant to both Hellenic and Egyptian cultures.
I didn't mention them because I think they are less likely than the others I posited.
If this were a list about who I WANTED to see most in the game, Persians would have almost certainly been in the top five.
@@robbylava fair enough, great video by the way.
@Skillionaire005 really appreciate you saying so!
The maddest I remember was a mod for a faction that had Lovecraftian entities as their gods and myth units (My only problem is how do you build the human units and human economy around that?).
Nice video. Looks like you've taken the time to work this all out. I think most of the cultures that you mentioned would fit well in the game. The Romans though, I'm not sure.
Actually I would personally be very disappointed if they would add the Romans to AoM. Don't get me wrong. I'm a massive fan of Roman history and it actually is one of my favorite historical cultures/themes. The thing is that somehow, in my personal opinion, they don't fit in AoM at all.
As far as I know Roman mythology leans heavily on Greek mythology and it is basically just their interpretation of it, so to me it wouldn't feel as original and unique as the others that are already in the game. And besides that, when I think about ancient Rome, I think about massive legions of organized human soldiers wearing heavy armor marching in tight formations being led with (for their time) groundbreaking military strategy and tactics. I just don't associate ancient Rome with mythological beasts and stuff like that. Actually, before you mentioned them in this video, I couldn't even come up with a single mythological beast that I associate primarily with ancient Rome, instead of earlier Hellenistic or simillar cultures.
I think ancient Rome fits amazingly well in games like f/e Total War or AoE, but not AoM. But thats all my personal opinion and maybe I should study Roman mythology more, lol.
Then, my mind is absolutely blown that there are people that find the Atlanteans a bad choice for AoM. When I hear the word mythology, the myth of Atlantis is actually one of the first that comes to my mind. Atlantis is actually mentioned in- and connected with both Greek and Egyptian mythology. How the Atlanteans are thematically dumb or less real compared to any of the other gods and mythological beasts in this game that is called Age of Mythology is completely beyond my comprehension.
Other than that I agree with most of your suggestions.
Cultures that in my opinion would fit well in AoM are:
1. Aztec (or Meso American in general)
2. Hindu Vedas
3. Sumerians
4. Any Gaelic, Celtic and/or Slavic culture
Never played Age of mythology, but still an interesting video! And who knows, maybe there will be a DLC to port it into aoe2 someday!
I legitimately really hope that ends up happening, or at least something like it. Much as I like Age of mythology, I think AOE2 has a far superior engine.
Honestly I think Romans should be added as a skin to the Greeks. Swap the names around with the Roman equivalents, switch Hoplites with Legionaries, adapt the architecture and be done with it!
Indian (Hindu) might be doable if it was released alongside Hebrew (Abrahamic) and Japanese (Shinto). Fair is fair.
Meso/South-American, Mesopotamian, Celtic and Slavic would be my top guesses - in no particular order. I agree that Hindu/Vedic would be a terrible idea, and I think the same even if doing a pre-cursor/ancestor religion - it is still bound to offend a lot of people. I'd really hope they don't do Roman. It's just too close, and people already complain about Atlanteans.
I donno why Slavic mythology is being ignored.
Slavic mythology is bigger than Sumerian,Chinese,Gaelic,Roman combined.
" Slavic : Great options , rich history, but i dunno if people would be as excited about it "
Maaaaaaan , in every movie or game russians, serbs and all slavs (especialy in cold war and break up of communist east block ) are most common enemies of west and still show 0 rage against this. Non slavic people of course will be excited. They are exicited about common slavic way of life.
And fact Slavs are one of the most numerous cltural and etno - linguistic group in the world.
My other suggestion is turkic, gokturk or preislamic beliefs and mythology of Turkic peoples and other central asian related etno - linguistic groups. They will have tengrism like core of the religion and culture.
The fourth civ in the Titans' expansion probably should've been the Romans. I like the Atlanteans, and they work well narratively, but it would've been pretty easy for them to craft a story around the Romans instead of the Atlanteans. It could've started the same: the Atlantean survivors discover a sky passage, but this time instead of taking them to a random island, it takes them to Italy. There they discover and help lead the Romans to greatness under Saturn.
That being said, I disagree with your Roman god suggestions! The ones you propose are simply too similar to the Greeks'. Saturn, Quirinus, Mithras, Cybele, maybe the three gods of the Aventine Triad, Carmentis, should all be in as minor or major gods.
Heck, they could even look into a revolution mechanic where Rome embraces Christianity, losing all their myth units and tech in exchange for some awesome buffs, some powerful God powers, and priest units that can covert others! Off hand I do not think this would work, and I'm not sure I'd like to see it in the game, but if implemented properly it would make them very different from the Greeks.
I'd also like to see the Vestal Virgins implemented in some way, perhaps as the way Rome gets its favour.
Would be cool to have some that are not tied to any cultures like we had with atlanteans. One I can think of his hyberborea, which has mammoths and gnomes. Would love to recreate the war between Proto-Finnic Holy Roman Khaganate and (possibly) The Great Hwan Empire lol (not to forget the minor civilizations of this conflict, Lemurians, Neanderthals, We Wuz Kans and Aliens)
if they added Romans, it would've been cool if they used christiandom, instead of a rehashed greek pantheon, and have them and christianity work as threat/nemesis towards the other pantheons as part of a campaign. There would be an obvious problem with christianity with the lack of gods, especially major ones, but they could make it work with lets say two major "gods" God & Satan, and then have various famous angels and demons as minor gods. Would've been cool to see satanic romans haha. Romans with a greek pantheon would be too much of the same.
Sir, do you know how many Hindus work for Microsoft? Consultants are not in short supply there. Some of the devs for the game are Hindus, almost certainly, in a significant proportion.
I think instead of Sumerian, AOM should have Babylonian because Anglophone people are more familiar with the Babylonian names of Mesopotamian gods than Sumerians. Example is like Ishtar is a popular name but her Sumerian counterpart Innana: not so much
Almost I agree....almost. Aztec are super booring I am sorry they were not impressive as civilization call me all the buzz words you want but they are irl warm water during a hot day. Africa would be amazing to be coverd we kinda have some some in Egypt. Romans are overdone despite the " I think daily about the muh rome". Slavs we really need some representation in games and not only but hopre proper representation to our culture not netflix withcer. Slavs would be similar to norse but difrent at the same time. Japan...ehh...sure
I truly believe they are going to do some bullshit move with the expansions.
The first one (at least in the steam page) it's saying that is gonna be the chinese (which it's already on the "base game" in a form of expansion).
I won't be surprised if the second expansion is the atlanteans...
Slavic mythology has been popularized by The Witcher.