@@chrish1645 im just taking the piss. people would watch his tier list vids, skip straight to the end, and leave an angry comment without watching any of the context.
Really sad that the Darkoath seems like a miss. Was really hoping for them to replace the horde like gameplay we lost with Beasts of Chaos. If they were their own faction and had a really cool center piece model, like a new iteration of a Chaos War mammoth Shrine and the mentioned 20+ to 40 reinforced unit sizes would have been great. Will still try to make them work for fun for sure.
Let's hope that the points make them more worth taking and if not that GW actually take the time to realise people are not happy with them and drop an update because they are such a cool army with amazing models to leave them in the dark especially when they have a battle formation dedicated to them so it feels weird to give us a goody to work specifically for them and not make their profiles usable.
For chaos lord on demonic mount, Drive the Legions forward is excellent for Chosen who have a abyssmal 5' move normally, suddenly they can be thrown half way across the map.
So happy I can now get 3d6 charged by 2 units of varanguard and maybe even a unit of chosen who teleport almost guaranteed turn 2. And then when I try to play the game Belakor says no I can't to my unit that might be able to do any damage. I love 3 hour tournament rounds where I know the game is already over at the top of turn 2.
"Your enemy cant do anything if you just murder them, its the slaves to darkness way" will now be how I explain how my army works when asked by an opponent.
I'm consistently annoyed at GW's antipathy for mono-god warriors of chaos. I have everything painted as Tzeentch. I want there to be some benefit to being dedicated to one god. Previous edition I could just run them as auxiliary troops for my disciples army but then that got axed so now I have an all-tzeentch warriors collection that rules-wise gets no benefit from being thematic. If I want to just be viable, not competitive, just viable, I need to make use of the other gods. **** that.
One piece of utility for support combat characters (Lord/ Myrmidon) that I don't see discussed:If you opponent is attacking the hero, they are not attacking the unit that is presumably alongside them. If your opponent has enough damage to take down both they still need allocate attacks correctly. Maybe these heroes only have 5-8hp, but if your opponent ends up putting 12 damage into them then have a large HP pool wouldn't have mattered anyway. For this army specifically: If you are taking Belakor a foot hero with fight together can give you an extra chance at strike first with how activations would work.
All 3 of the units in Gunnars units get the +4 ward for the rest of the battle, not just him which really makes them survivable and singri damn near unkillable from shooting
I'm an avid Slaves to darkness player. I play at least once a week. IMO, this book has emphasized the things that were already good and has lessened the interest in bring nearly anything else other than whats currently "good" in the meta. I think win rates will rise a decent amount. Pledges being a thing that you can choose whenever you want is very good. but it concept in its self incentivizes you to use your pledges on a worth target since you've only got 5 to give out in a game. Might as well throw that pledge on a reinforced unit of anything warriors of chaos. never gonna be anything else. MMAYYBE furies pledges Tzeentch for some even more cheeky movement? And why would I ever want to take a Demon prince anymore? They're easily my favorite part of the army, and I'm sad to think that I really don't have a good reason to take one. They're purely a combat piece now with zero synergies. Cant see myself not just using those points on a unit of chosen instead. Win rates - UP. List diversity - WAY DOWN. IMO. We'll see how it shakes out.
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why the first chariot doesn't just have power through for free. Like why. Why is GW so incapable of being creative? Giving units roles beyond being tanky or fighty lol. Or neither in this case lol. I just don't understand why they can't give every warscroll a use.
So we got index warscrolls, watered-down battle traits, and lost 4 warscrolls? Can’t believe im saying this but I think I preferred when the battletomes were just an index reprint 😂
@@MortalAgenda ya I mean it's only been 2 tomes so far. The rules are available online so it's not like we need the books. It's a terrible business plan. And we really should as a community, make GW feel the pain of their mistake. The battletomes should all have 3 more artifacts, 3 more traits, atleast 1 additional battle formation, 1 additional spell lore, new units, updated battle traits if necessary and updated scrolls.
I just realised they got no Underworld warband added in. Skaven got Plagueback, Stormcast got Stormcoven so I feel it would have been nice for S2D to at least get something like The Gnarlspirit pack as it would have given Dakoath a way to include a Wizard (1) outside of the points to take Brand's Oathbound and their oath is if they cast an unmodified 8 then the unit gets +5 ward for the rest of the battle for 110 points (pre new points change). With how dissapointing the Darkoath have been it feels like that could have at least been a little something to help them along a bit.
@Kernel_Kertz They are released as part of the AoS boxes that are part of Hammer and Bolter like Blacktalons and Saviours of Cinderfall that come with rules for their AoS army and as a Regiment of renown then later they get some rules for Warcry too. Can't currently use them for Underworlds.
Disappointed with the battle formations not changing but it was expected. Gods wrath and the control score one are both decent they’re just boring .I’ve played like 12 games and both are ok. Losing the nurgle mark definitely hurts the control score one though.
As bel'akors the dark master ability is activated in the enemy hero phase, wont the enemy player get to cast spells before the ability triggers? The way i understands the rules, the active player get to finish using all of his abilities before their opponent can use their abilities in the same phase.
I dreamt of the Darkoaths as a cool Marauders horde army, just have to keep on dreaming. Might grab the old army box anyway to paint the up and do some Path to glory gaming. Great review Rob.
I hoped for a bit of fun new units for the darkoaths... I'm still holding on my pure darkoath army as I really like the look of these guys and I will make it work... maybe not good for tournies but my own fun :P Just waiting for the spearhead box and than my horde of 93 models will be on the march! If the points drop maybe even more!!!! If you're interested here is my army :) : Darkoath Horde(3Regs) 1990/2000 pts Slaves to Darkness | Darkoath Horde Drops: 3 Spell Lore - Lore of the Damned Manifestation Lore - Manifestations of Malevolence General's Regiment Gunnar Brand (270) • General Darkoath Marauders (100) Darkoath Savagers (130) Singri Brand (0) The Oathsworn Kin (0) Regiment 1 Darkoath Chieftain on Warsteed (160) • Infernal Puppet Darkoath Fellriders (300) • Reinforced • 1x Marauder Javelin Darkoath Fellriders (150) • 1x Marauder Javelin Darkoath Wilderfiend (170) Regiment 2 Darkoath Warqueen (140) Darkoath Marauders (200) • Reinforced Darkoath Marauders (200) • Reinforced Darkoath Wilderfiend (170)
Rob, you're an absolute beast, thank you! As for the battletome, abysmal internal balance. S2D will win a lot ,using the same 5 warscrolls. I'm really disappointed, as coming up with interesting lists is one of my favorite gameplay aspects. I hope at least that LotFP is decent.
Yea when I took up S2D in 3rd they were a massive army of what, like 55+ scrolls? We ended up losing like 12-14? scrolls, and now there's like 5 scrolls worth taking. Really hard to justify different builds in this book. I don't need to min/max, but I need things to be at least 80% as good as the best stuff to justify taking it. The new stuff here looks fine to me, but this battletome instantly has me wanting changes still to terrible to underwhelming battle formations, most enhancements, etc. They needed to balance the other 3 battle formations, half the enhancements, and 2/3 of the scrolls to compete with the stuff actually worth taking.
A few minor ones. Loss of Undivided marks for Archaon, Abraxia and Be'lakor, Archaon got +1 Rend against heroes and lost his "choose a mark" ability. Abraxia changed her Battle Damage passive, the Daemon Prince lost its buffing ability and got a 50% chance to strike first instead. Centaurion Marshall got his ability modified to go from non-hero Undivided to non-hero daemons and Chaos Legionaires, Lord on Karkadrak lost the ability to affect Cavalry.
Why do I get the feeling this battletome is essentially the index? The only big changes were to the battle traits. I’m starting to regret preordering the battletome and wasting 50uSD
Rob looking for clarification: for dark master if I'm choosing to hit my opponent in their turn I'd have to wait until the end of the my opponents activations in order to do dark master.
You have to use it in the enemy hero phase, can't use it in your hero phase. Your activation in the enemy hero pahse is after the enemy hero phase. Do dark master blocks movement, shooting, charging and fighting. Unless your opponent takes a double. Than you block also the next hero phase.
@@Strade8 yeah that's what I was trying to explain sorry if it didn't come through like that, I find that since my group had that revelation it really hasn't been nearly as impactful. Sure it still works for trying to stop movement etc.
@@jhonikseraph2938 you can discourage to take the double and mess up the battle tactic peaking a unit that looks essential for it. Is still one of the most powerful ability in the game
I actually really like Eternatus. If they pushed him any more, he’d be OP imo. The “any move phase” ability makes him much more interesting to me. Even without belakor, he’s got a decent chance to deep strike anywhere and just begin denying commands. I love “no win” units. If the enemy takes him out, it means they didn’t take something else out and he can come back. If they don’t take him out, then he’s sitting there denying commands and being okay… Of course, it depends on his points, but if he’s pointed similar to how he is now, I’m excited for him. Especially since he’s not a war master!
Oh man I didn't even realize it could be your opponent's movement phase. Honestly Eternus seems really good to me as somebody who likes to play "control decks" in MTG....... I've just talked myself into buying him I think.
This review doesn't cover it, but Eternus is really good in Legion of the First Prince which is included in this book. Hes able to give out +1 attack to two daemon units within 12"
I've been told using the eye of ed sheren still bars you from taking a battle tactic as it's just the act of having a double turn that does that, not choosing to
Was hoping Archaon was either Pledged to Everything from the get go, or could switch his Pledge during the battle somehow. Oh well. I do like the change Legionnaires; IIRC their anti-command ability was on a 5+ before? And the Mutalith can teleport up to get in range for the Mutalithing without having to be in combat. Just wish it wasn't Once Per Turn (Army).
Was hoping for some new battle formations, they were all mediocre. Also the Eight-point sigil sucks so much it's making me believe that they don't actually playtest shit. I was so tired of having to play against the mark of nurgle tho, good riddance to that -1 to wound with no drawback whatsoever. The army already has +3 save, it was a pain.
I’ve literally only seen 15 seconds and i hate it but i’m gonna buy it anyways and play it and be mad about it. Anyways let’s continue the review. I love you Rob! #algorithmgang
Now I understand why the Chaos Sorcerer Lord is apparently going to be $38 (despite being a Chaos Warrior - 10 for $60, with a staff) lol. Selling Mystic Shield at an extortionate premium.
So, unless I missed it, they seem to have removed priests from S2D entirely? I knew going into this review that the Warshrine was gone, but I really figured they'd slap the keyword onto something else, like maybe a Darkoath unit or something. But, yeah, otherwise this definitely seems like a sidegrade book. I do, however, like the idea of the pledges more since it gives in-battle flexibility with your choices rather than having to commit to certain roles during list building. I'm also very happy to see Tzeentch not be almost entirely useless anymore, and actually look like a pretty fun choice to pledge to here and there when you just need a unit to suddenly be somewhere else on the board out of nowhere, lol. Now to see if there's much in the way of point adjustments coming, or if all of this will be with the current points. Thanks for doing the review!
watch whole twitch yesterday and watch whole yt... with cherry vodka - huge hangover - just like after thinking that we are stuck with bel and var for years from now :D
I have no idea why this book was even printed. Nothing much has changed. You still will play the same army you play, and you still say "Darkoath, who?".
There is a nice army of renown and a couple mercenary regiments at the end of the book which rob didn't go over that add "some" value but I agree, these books mostly feel like typo correction for index.
I find it absolutely insane the amount of "shut down commands" they packed into the book, especially with a decent amount of "fights last debuff" alongside it... Armored units are going to be so hard to remove after theyve gotten their attacks off and essentially neutered anything that actually survived the armored unit striking first at full strength and potential buffs. Sadly I don't think itll help the darkoath too much but... Idk, the darkoath are just constantly stuck in a weird place. Im going to be mulling over them in my head for a bit to see if im able to come up with anything to make them work, but will probably be sticking with my armored stuff mostly. Of course if they release tribes of the snowy peaks aor rules and they wind up being good enough that might be a saving grace but... Either they won't put tribes in, or they won't make it good, more than likely 🙄
Small potential rules hack detected: if you manage to turn a hero into a demon prince using dark apotheosis, It says that you remove the hero from the battlefield and then add a demon prince to your army within 1 inch of that hero and it now that has the same enhancements as that hero. If you give that hero, the death monger trait so that they are able to fight twice once per game, and that particular hero has already used it, when the demon prince gets added to the battlefield, and he now gains the trait, he has not fought twice yet. It seems like rules as written you might be able to benefit from that trait twice if you manage to turn That hero into a demon Prince. Right?
Great analysis. It's a shame that unaligned units get no benefit anymore, especially for Darkoath where they're likely to have more units that never get pledged. Does that mean Warriors of Chaos are Tories?
I just hope some of this units gets some changes in terms of points. Be'lakor needs to go up, everyone has him their army and thats crazy. The Chaos Lord on Karkadrak needs to go down by a lot, especially now that he got nerfed with the NON Cavalry thing (and also because no one run them) Abraxia same thing, too many points for nothing (when every other units can give you the same ability in a way or another, Demon Prince thing, it's kinda disappointig, lot of flavor and cool visually, but on paper that's a meh. It's like they wanna you to play only some units and leave all the others, that's crazy.
@ if a whole faction wins or looses depending on a single model, you have to understand that the hole faction in really bad written and not balanced at all
I don’t think you are able to do what you say with pledge of tzeentch. If I’m not wrong (and could be wrong) you have to resolve ability before. So you cannot move and then TP. Otherwise you potentially can move 26 (12 move + 8 with 2d6 + 6” cause you have to stay wholly within 6” from the point of 2d6) with darkoath fellriders
also what happened to the 'abilites' part like the crit (mortal) are those gone now or placed somewhere else im not seeing edit: i am blind disregard this question and act like it never happened please.
I am disappointed. They started the edition proudly proclaiming that Horned Rat had officially joined the Chaos Patheon. I mean he had before now, but this time they mean it for real. So where are the marks of the Horned Rat?
I had hoped they would change some battlescrolls in the new battletome to make some of the worse units playable or even good. Instead they just copypasted all the warscrolls. At least they got some other rules than in the index and they still look very strong.
Question, if the banners give the units the pledged to X, wouldn't that mean that you couldn't add another pledge to another god as it already has that keyworld? I mean, the Pledge to chaos specifies that "does not have one of the keywords below"
this was such a gargantuan nerf to slaves to darkness, they more or less removed ALL our army wide rules and didn't give us anything back in return, a single pledge a turn is practically nothing.....they should start off with these pledges and it should be on whatever units you want at the start of the game, average game length and average unit survivability you'll get a max of 2 units with a pledge.......yeah they more or less took away chaos's rules entirely and said piss off.
why does pledged to Slaneesh say its until the end of the turn if you gain the Slaanesh keyword for the rest of the battle? Is that part of the rule just redundant text?
That is not a passive ability. You activate it in your charge phase to give 3d6 charge to your slaanesh units. If it didn't say "until the end of the turn" some people could argue it last until the end of the game (like new sce ruination AoR +2 move prayer) since there is no timing.
Tbh this book really has me bummed out. I hate how GW is making such a concerted effort to suck the flavour and player agency away while eating into the player's ability to theme their army. What they have done with the marks of chaos is just egregious. Marks of Chaos are a concept that has been core to chaos for decades and now suddenly everyone is an "undivided" army that gets a few pledges per game?
@@Strade8 I mean, I guess you could pre-order the new tome tomorrow, wait two weeks or so for delivery, and have the physical book for yourself. But given how small the changes are, you could just write down the changes from the index and be done with it in less than an hour.
The rules are worse than bad or good, they're boring. Dark Apotheosis *could* be fun but realistically won't go off often and the payoff is not even great, I have to say they sucked a lot of fun out of this edition compared to 3e. The pledges are better than marks (taking a static mechanic out of list building into a dynamic game play choice) but that's about all I can say. Subfactions suck so much this edition. This is probably going to be the status quo until the tomes start coming out late next year, for the first time I'm actually happy some of my armies aren't getting tomes until later.
I can't believe they, once again, reprinted the index and did a change that could have been part of a monthly update and fit on a 2 page pdf. Gives me 0 hope for the upcoming IJ and KB tomes sadly...
*sidegraded. Lots of what was unusable and shit is now not shit, and lots of what was great is now meh. I think overall it’s an improvement, seems to be less meta and autopick this time around.
@Strade8 I personally enjoyed the synergetic idea we used to be. 1E was awful - but the aura effect of the Chosen and the now discontinued Warshrine were awesome to me. Chaining effects for interesting plays was fun and forced creativity - I just wanted that but with capable profiles. Chosen with more than 1 health, more than one damage, more than one rend. Same for the Knights, and for the Warriors I really just wanted them to be cheaper or maybe have a better save - they were okay otherwise. Now we admittedly hit like a truck, but... I feel like a lot of our uniqueness is just gone. I loved our survivability, I loved the Runeshields, our auras. I just wanted to actually be able to kill things, too - not even have to demolish them, but at least be capable of killing instead of twidling sticks
@SeppukuAddict Truthfully can't argue with your latter, but for your former? Army-wide Eye of the God's was a wonderful change that actually made it mean something and actually let it occur. From only heroes receiving it in against other heroes 1E and with a possibility that it would actually be worse than having not gotten it, to only heroes on heroes and monsters, to every unit on any unit but with a mitigated but guaranteed rewards, back to now only ONE HERO this time being able to MAYBE heal just 3 damage or turn into a different profile... that you would have been better off grabbing in the list-building process if you really wanted him. That, is a MASSIVE downgrade. The Banners are admittedly just a side grade though, you're right
1:26 Battle Traits
9:13 Enscrolled Banners
14:23 Terrain: Nexus Chaotica
17:07 Heroic Traits
19:10 Artefacts of Power
21:26 Battle Formations (Godswrath Warband + 3)
25:09 Spell Lore
29:57 Manifestations
34:44 Archaon
40:53 Be'Lakor
45:21 Abraxia
49:56 Gaunt Summoner & Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch
53:33 Eternus
55:16 Centaurion Marshal
56:34 Demon Prince
59:33 Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount
01:01:08 Chaos Lord on Karkadrak
01:02:35 Chaos Lord & Exalted Hero of Chaos
01:03:48 WHOP
01:03:59 Chaos Sorcerer Lord
01:05:29 Ogroid Myrmidon & Ogroid Theridons
01:09:26 Varanguard
01:12:41 Chaos Chosen
01:14:19 Chaos Knights
01:15:30 Chaos Warriors
01:17:08 Chaos Legionnaires
01:18:35 Chaos Chariot
01:19:12 Gorebeast Chariot
01:19:45 Mutalith Vortex Beast & Slaughterbrute
01:23:48 Chaos Spawn
01:24:33 Chaos Furies
01:26:10 Mindstealer Sphiranx
01:27:13 Fomoroid Crusher
01:28:44 Raptoryx
01:29:59 Darkoath Chieftain on Warsteed
01:31:32 Darkoath Chieftain
01:32:55 Darkoath Warqueen
01:34:08 Darkoath Marauders
01:36:18 Darkoath Fellriders
01:38:18 Darkoath Savagers
01:39:39 Darkoath Wilderfiend
01:41:05 Gunnar Brand
01:42:54 Singri Brand
01:43:40 The Oathsworn Kin
01:44:47 Closing Thoughts
God bless you sir
TY
Skipped straight to the end and saw no tier list. 0/10. How can I form an opinion with no context now?
The trier lists are the friends we made along the way! ❤
Tier list comes as a later vid
How can you do a tier list while we still don't have points?
@@chrish1645 im just taking the piss. people would watch his tier list vids, skip straight to the end, and leave an angry comment without watching any of the context.
@@chrish1645 I don't know lets just fucking guess. I am going to assume belekor is S thier!
Really sad that the Darkoath seems like a miss. Was really hoping for them to replace the horde like gameplay we lost with Beasts of Chaos. If they were their own faction and had a really cool center piece model, like a new iteration of a Chaos War mammoth Shrine and the mentioned 20+ to 40 reinforced unit sizes would have been great. Will still try to make them work for fun for sure.
Now that they have access to the pledges, if they're as cheap as they were before there might be something there.
@@sepher32yeah pledges MIGHT save them just enough if they don't jump any in points.
Let's hope that the points make them more worth taking and if not that GW actually take the time to realise people are not happy with them and drop an update because they are such a cool army with amazing models to leave them in the dark especially when they have a battle formation dedicated to them so it feels weird to give us a goody to work specifically for them and not make their profiles usable.
We've seen the points and some dark oaths have gone down there's un touched
GW didn't even make it three books before breaking their 'no free units' paradigm that they claimed they were aiming for this edition...
I laughed hard on this
Still farther than their "Less Rerolls" not making it past the first army rule in 40K lmao.
For chaos lord on demonic mount, Drive the Legions forward is excellent for Chosen who have a abyssmal 5' move normally, suddenly they can be thrown half way across the map.
So happy I can now get 3d6 charged by 2 units of varanguard and maybe even a unit of chosen who teleport almost guaranteed turn 2. And then when I try to play the game Belakor says no I can't to my unit that might be able to do any damage. I love 3 hour tournament rounds where I know the game is already over at the top of turn 2.
The eye of Ed Sheeran lmao caught me off gaurd
my fave item
"Your enemy cant do anything if you just murder them, its the slaves to darkness way" will now be how I explain how my army works when asked by an opponent.
Hardest working man in the hobby
Appreciate that from a legend
I'm consistently annoyed at GW's antipathy for mono-god warriors of chaos.
I have everything painted as Tzeentch. I want there to be some benefit to being dedicated to one god. Previous edition I could just run them as auxiliary troops for my disciples army but then that got axed so now I have an all-tzeentch warriors collection that rules-wise gets no benefit from being thematic. If I want to just be viable, not competitive, just viable, I need to make use of the other gods.
**** that.
I really don't understand why the dark oath Underworlds band didn't make it into the book as a generic unit like the stormcoven.
yes!! i agree
Drinking game idea - take a shot each time the words "3d6 charge" are mentioned in that video.
One piece of utility for support combat characters (Lord/ Myrmidon) that I don't see discussed:If you opponent is attacking the hero, they are not attacking the unit that is presumably alongside them. If your opponent has enough damage to take down both they still need allocate attacks correctly. Maybe these heroes only have 5-8hp, but if your opponent ends up putting 12 damage into them then have a large HP pool wouldn't have mattered anyway.
For this army specifically: If you are taking Belakor a foot hero with fight together can give you an extra chance at strike first with how activations would work.
All 3 of the units in Gunnars units get the +4 ward for the rest of the battle, not just him which really makes them survivable and singri damn near unkillable from shooting
I'm an avid Slaves to darkness player. I play at least once a week. IMO, this book has emphasized the things that were already good and has lessened the interest in bring nearly anything else other than whats currently "good" in the meta. I think win rates will rise a decent amount. Pledges being a thing that you can choose whenever you want is very good. but it concept in its self incentivizes you to use your pledges on a worth target since you've only got 5 to give out in a game. Might as well throw that pledge on a reinforced unit of anything warriors of chaos. never gonna be anything else. MMAYYBE furies pledges Tzeentch for some even more cheeky movement? And why would I ever want to take a Demon prince anymore? They're easily my favorite part of the army, and I'm sad to think that I really don't have a good reason to take one. They're purely a combat piece now with zero synergies. Cant see myself not just using those points on a unit of chosen instead. Win rates - UP. List diversity - WAY DOWN. IMO. We'll see how it shakes out.
Belakor. Varanguard. Anything else that you fancy.
Yea removing the support/buffs from the deamons prince means he should have got much stronger. He's going to need to go down to what, 220 at least?
I kinda wished they would bring down belakor so there is some room for other builds
Amazing content updated today thanks for what you do for this war-game.
Amazin works , bud. Cheers 🍻 , Chaos Rockin😊
Binding Damnation = Skaven's Warpgale that is 1 more to cast and 7 inch less range. Though it does work over the double turn.
The double turn nit is good
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why the first chariot doesn't just have power through for free. Like why. Why is GW so incapable of being creative? Giving units roles beyond being tanky or fighty lol. Or neither in this case lol. I just don't understand why they can't give every warscroll a use.
So we got index warscrolls, watered-down battle traits, and lost 4 warscrolls?
Can’t believe im saying this but I think I preferred when the battletomes were just an index reprint 😂
Also they were free
For all the good 4th edition has, their battletome business plan should go down as one of the most epic fails in business history.
@@markpandelidis2079 my group has just continued to use index rules since they’re freely available and frankly just looking to be more fun.
@@MortalAgenda ya I mean it's only been 2 tomes so far. The rules are available online so it's not like we need the books. It's a terrible business plan. And we really should as a community, make GW feel the pain of their mistake. The battletomes should all have 3 more artifacts, 3 more traits, atleast 1 additional battle formation, 1 additional spell lore, new units, updated battle traits if necessary and updated scrolls.
the removal of nurgle''s mark is a heavy hit imho, the improved moblity might make up for it I guess
@@federicotarroni2335 std are a strong army, mark of Nurgle was excessive as a debuff.
@Strade8 yeah It was an impactful rule
Thanks for being honest with us, Rob
Fastest working man in Warhammer?
auspex is faster i think but hes the fastest for AOS
@@TombKingTristan Fastest AND Best AoS dude.
I just realised they got no Underworld warband added in. Skaven got Plagueback, Stormcast got Stormcoven so I feel it would have been nice for S2D to at least get something like The Gnarlspirit pack as it would have given Dakoath a way to include a Wizard (1) outside of the points to take Brand's Oathbound and their oath is if they cast an unmodified 8 then the unit gets +5 ward for the rest of the battle for 110 points (pre new points change). With how dissapointing the Darkoath have been it feels like that could have at least been a little something to help them along a bit.
Isn't Gunnar Brand's group an Underworlds kit?
@Kernel_Kertz They are released as part of the AoS boxes that are part of Hammer and Bolter like Blacktalons and Saviours of Cinderfall that come with rules for their AoS army and as a Regiment of renown then later they get some rules for Warcry too. Can't currently use them for Underworlds.
Disappointed with the battle formations not changing but it was expected. Gods wrath and the control score one are both decent they’re just boring .I’ve played like 12 games and both are ok. Losing the nurgle mark definitely hurts the control score one though.
As bel'akors the dark master ability is activated in the enemy hero phase, wont the enemy player get to cast spells before the ability triggers? The way i understands the rules, the active player get to finish using all of his abilities before their opponent can use their abilities in the same phase.
I dreamt of the Darkoaths as a cool Marauders horde army, just have to keep on dreaming. Might grab the old army box anyway to paint the up and do some Path to glory gaming. Great review Rob.
A marauder horseman being able to lob a sharp stick and (potentially) do 3 dmg is very funny to me.
And the army of Belakor?
I hoped for a bit of fun new units for the darkoaths... I'm still holding on my pure darkoath army as I really like the look of these guys and I will make it work... maybe not good for tournies but my own fun :P Just waiting for the spearhead box and than my horde of 93 models will be on the march! If the points drop maybe even more!!!! If you're interested here is my army :) :
Darkoath Horde(3Regs) 1990/2000 pts
Slaves to Darkness | Darkoath Horde
Drops: 3
Spell Lore - Lore of the Damned
Manifestation Lore - Manifestations of Malevolence
General's Regiment
Gunnar Brand (270)
• General
Darkoath Marauders (100)
Darkoath Savagers (130)
Singri Brand (0)
The Oathsworn Kin (0)
Regiment 1
Darkoath Chieftain on Warsteed (160)
• Infernal Puppet
Darkoath Fellriders (300)
• Reinforced
• 1x Marauder Javelin
Darkoath Fellriders (150)
• 1x Marauder Javelin
Darkoath Wilderfiend (170)
Regiment 2
Darkoath Warqueen (140)
Darkoath Marauders (200)
• Reinforced
Darkoath Marauders (200)
• Reinforced
Darkoath Wilderfiend (170)
Rob, you're an absolute beast, thank you!
As for the battletome, abysmal internal balance. S2D will win a lot ,using the same 5 warscrolls. I'm really disappointed, as coming up with interesting lists is one of my favorite gameplay aspects.
I hope at least that LotFP is decent.
That's a fair feeling. Please vote for me as the hardest working man in the hobby
Yea when I took up S2D in 3rd they were a massive army of what, like 55+ scrolls?
We ended up losing like 12-14? scrolls, and now there's like 5 scrolls worth taking. Really hard to justify different builds in this book. I don't need to min/max, but I need things to be at least 80% as good as the best stuff to justify taking it.
The new stuff here looks fine to me, but this battletome instantly has me wanting changes still to terrible to underwhelming battle formations, most enhancements, etc. They needed to balance the other 3 battle formations, half the enhancements, and 2/3 of the scrolls to compete with the stuff actually worth taking.
Were there any warscroll changes at all from the index? Everything seems exactly the same.
A few minor ones. Loss of Undivided marks for Archaon, Abraxia and Be'lakor, Archaon got +1 Rend against heroes and lost his "choose a mark" ability. Abraxia changed her Battle Damage passive, the Daemon Prince lost its buffing ability and got a 50% chance to strike first instead. Centaurion Marshall got his ability modified to go from non-hero Undivided to non-hero daemons and Chaos Legionaires, Lord on Karkadrak lost the ability to affect Cavalry.
Why do I get the feeling this battletome is essentially the index? The only big changes were to the battle traits.
I’m starting to regret preordering the battletome and wasting 50uSD
No one should be buying battletomes in 4th. They are a waste and GW needs to be taught that they messed up big time.
@@markpandelidis2079shame on me for the hopium
Rob looking for clarification: for dark master if I'm choosing to hit my opponent in their turn I'd have to wait until the end of the my opponents activations in order to do dark master.
You have to use it in the enemy hero phase, can't use it in your hero phase. Your activation in the enemy hero pahse is after the enemy hero phase. Do dark master blocks movement, shooting, charging and fighting. Unless your opponent takes a double. Than you block also the next hero phase.
@@Strade8 yeah that's what I was trying to explain sorry if it didn't come through like that, I find that since my group had that revelation it really hasn't been nearly as impactful. Sure it still works for trying to stop movement etc.
@@jhonikseraph2938 you can discourage to take the double and mess up the battle tactic peaking a unit that looks essential for it. Is still one of the most powerful ability in the game
@@Strade8 youre not wrong but the misunderstanding of it makes it significantly weaker lol
Great video, love this version of the pledge to Tzeentch.
I actually really like Eternatus. If they pushed him any more, he’d be OP imo.
The “any move phase” ability makes him much more interesting to me. Even without belakor, he’s got a decent chance to deep strike anywhere and just begin denying commands.
I love “no win” units. If the enemy takes him out, it means they didn’t take something else out and he can come back. If they don’t take him out, then he’s sitting there denying commands and being okay…
Of course, it depends on his points, but if he’s pointed similar to how he is now, I’m excited for him. Especially since he’s not a war master!
Oh man I didn't even realize it could be your opponent's movement phase. Honestly Eternus seems really good to me as somebody who likes to play "control decks" in MTG.......
I've just talked myself into buying him I think.
This review doesn't cover it, but Eternus is really good in Legion of the First Prince which is included in this book. Hes able to give out +1 attack to two daemon units within 12"
I've been told using the eye of ed sheren still bars you from taking a battle tactic as it's just the act of having a double turn that does that, not choosing to
Nope. It doesn't stop you having a tactic as you didn't choose too
Was hoping Archaon was either Pledged to Everything from the get go, or could switch his Pledge during the battle somehow. Oh well. I do like the change Legionnaires; IIRC their anti-command ability was on a 5+ before? And the Mutalith can teleport up to get in range for the Mutalithing without having to be in combat. Just wish it wasn't Once Per Turn (Army).
Was hoping for some new battle formations, they were all mediocre. Also the Eight-point sigil sucks so much it's making me believe that they don't actually playtest shit.
I was so tired of having to play against the mark of nurgle tho, good riddance to that -1 to wound with no drawback whatsoever. The army already has +3 save, it was a pain.
Darkoath is the path back for my beloved beastmen..
I agree i dislike cheap daemon princes, like make it feel like there is a reason to sell your soul
more power
@thehonestwargamerstreams yup.
I’ve literally only seen 15 seconds and i hate it but i’m gonna buy it anyways and play it and be mad about it. Anyways let’s continue the review. I love you Rob! #algorithmgang
Now I understand why the Chaos Sorcerer Lord is apparently going to be $38 (despite being a Chaos Warrior - 10 for $60, with a staff) lol. Selling Mystic Shield at an extortionate premium.
So, unless I missed it, they seem to have removed priests from S2D entirely? I knew going into this review that the Warshrine was gone, but I really figured they'd slap the keyword onto something else, like maybe a Darkoath unit or something. But, yeah, otherwise this definitely seems like a sidegrade book. I do, however, like the idea of the pledges more since it gives in-battle flexibility with your choices rather than having to commit to certain roles during list building. I'm also very happy to see Tzeentch not be almost entirely useless anymore, and actually look like a pretty fun choice to pledge to here and there when you just need a unit to suddenly be somewhere else on the board out of nowhere, lol. Now to see if there's much in the way of point adjustments coming, or if all of this will be with the current points. Thanks for doing the review!
watch whole twitch yesterday and watch whole yt... with cherry vodka - huge hangover - just like after thinking that we are stuck with bel and var for years from now :D
To not take a myrmiodon if your taking theros is is insane, 6theros buffed by the myrm ripping through anything
can't wait for the next belakor varanguard 5-0
next week baby
I think you wont wait long.
This book in the index with weaker battle traits (especially Eye of the Gods. This new rule is insulting)
I have no idea why this book was even printed. Nothing much has changed. You still will play the same army you play, and you still say "Darkoath, who?".
The Darkoath is so sad
There is a nice army of renown and a couple mercenary regiments at the end of the book which rob didn't go over that add "some" value but I agree, these books mostly feel like typo correction for index.
I find it absolutely insane the amount of "shut down commands" they packed into the book, especially with a decent amount of "fights last debuff" alongside it... Armored units are going to be so hard to remove after theyve gotten their attacks off and essentially neutered anything that actually survived the armored unit striking first at full strength and potential buffs. Sadly I don't think itll help the darkoath too much but... Idk, the darkoath are just constantly stuck in a weird place. Im going to be mulling over them in my head for a bit to see if im able to come up with anything to make them work, but will probably be sticking with my armored stuff mostly.
Of course if they release tribes of the snowy peaks aor rules and they wind up being good enough that might be a saving grace but... Either they won't put tribes in, or they won't make it good, more than likely 🙄
Raptoryxs have two wounds each and don't fly so they can get cover, two points in their favor over furies (and I love furies)
Small potential rules hack detected: if you manage to turn a hero into a demon prince using dark apotheosis, It says that you remove the hero from the battlefield and then add a demon prince to your army within 1 inch of that hero and it now that has the same enhancements as that hero. If you give that hero, the death monger trait so that they are able to fight twice once per game, and that particular hero has already used it, when the demon prince gets added to the battlefield, and he now gains the trait, he has not fought twice yet. It seems like rules as written you might be able to benefit from that trait twice if you manage to turn That hero into a demon Prince. Right?
Well that was fast haha
Great analysis. It's a shame that unaligned units get no benefit anymore, especially for Darkoath where they're likely to have more units that never get pledged. Does that mean Warriors of Chaos are Tories?
Seems like some decent knaves to Narpness
I am only interested in seeing how darkoath side works and it saddens me 😢
Me too
I just hope some of this units gets some changes in terms of points.
Be'lakor needs to go up, everyone has him their army and thats crazy.
The Chaos Lord on Karkadrak needs to go down by a lot, especially now that he got nerfed with the NON Cavalry thing (and also because no one run them)
Abraxia same thing, too many points for nothing (when every other units can give you the same ability in a way or another,
Demon Prince thing, it's kinda disappointig, lot of flavor and cool visually, but on paper that's a meh.
It's like they wanna you to play only some units and leave all the others, that's crazy.
Take away belakor and the army drops below 50% winrate (imho)
@ if a whole faction wins or looses depending on a single model, you have to understand that the hole faction in really bad written and not balanced at all
I don’t think you are able to do what you say with pledge of tzeentch. If I’m not wrong (and could be wrong) you have to resolve ability before. So you cannot move and then TP. Otherwise you potentially can move 26 (12 move + 8 with 2d6 + 6” cause you have to stay wholly within 6” from the point of 2d6) with darkoath fellriders
And the Legion of the 1st Prince review?😢
next video
does this mean theres going to be a new faction pack that im going to have to get because the old one has all the old stuff in it?
also what happened to the 'abilites' part like the crit (mortal) are those gone now or placed somewhere else im not seeing
edit: i am blind disregard this question and act like it never happened please.
The low save armies and units seem to be to expensive atm You run into a armoured unit and you get deleted.
I am disappointed. They started the edition proudly proclaiming that Horned Rat had officially joined the Chaos Patheon. I mean he had before now, but this time they mean it for real. So where are the marks of the Horned Rat?
Thanks Rob!
Do we have any infos about the AoR Warscrolls?
I had hoped they would change some battlescrolls in the new battletome to make some of the worse units playable or even good. Instead they just copypasted all the warscrolls. At least they got some other rules than in the index and they still look very strong.
No Underworlds warbands re-added is sad. Guessing they are saving them for armies with fewer warscrolls which is fair (and Skaven/SCE apparently)
Question, if the banners give the units the pledged to X, wouldn't that mean that you couldn't add another pledge to another god as it already has that keyworld?
I mean, the Pledge to chaos specifies that "does not have one of the keywords below"
That is correct. You cannot have 2 pledges
Would it be legal to bring back the Wilderfiend with the Rally the Tribes Battle Formation? It's not Unique and not a Hero, right?
Make Eternus strong damn it
He is, you just need to run him in Legion of the First Prince which Rob didn't cover in this review.
Without more substantive rules changes, these books are not worth the cost
not at all
@@eviltables7235 the rules should be fraking free.. I am tired of GW money grabbing polices, i will buy everything from other miniature sellers.
They were S-tier. They are even better. No changes to Belakor, Chosen and Varanguard. Can't believe this.
Chill, we don't have the points yet, there is hope
certainly a strong army
@@TheRealThirdME I'd bet that there won't be any changes other than 10-pt ajustements.
@francoissavard5893 wanna bet an artificial beer? 😁
@@TheRealThirdME Lol. Yeah why not?
I experienced the double turn but take battle tactics ability last weekend and oof. It hurts.
Yeah it's ALOT
this was such a gargantuan nerf to slaves to darkness, they more or less removed ALL our army wide rules and didn't give us anything back in return, a single pledge a turn is practically nothing.....they should start off with these pledges and it should be on whatever units you want at the start of the game, average game length and average unit survivability you'll get a max of 2 units with a pledge.......yeah they more or less took away chaos's rules entirely and said piss off.
How about renown stuff?
Oh sorry I didn’t watch till the end
ill do in another video
Did they even bother changing anything in this book apart from Battle Traits?
No
Forky asks a question, Whats a battle trait?
No war shrine?
Wait, it's already out?
So just 1 army of renown?
why does pledged to Slaneesh say its until the end of the turn if you gain the Slaanesh keyword for the rest of the battle? Is that part of the rule just redundant text?
So you don't 3d6 countercharge in opponent turn.
@Shoshuro1 yea but it says in your charge phase on the timing of the rule anyway.
That is not a passive ability.
You activate it in your charge phase to give 3d6 charge to your slaanesh units.
If it didn't say "until the end of the turn" some people could argue it last until the end of the game (like new sce ruination AoR +2 move prayer) since there is no timing.
the comment shave answered it all here thanks
So the warscrolls are the same
apart from the demon prince
#boycottbattletomesin4th
Tbh this book really has me bummed out. I hate how GW is making such a concerted effort to suck the flavour and player agency away while eating into the player's ability to theme their army.
What they have done with the marks of chaos is just egregious. Marks of Chaos are a concept that has been core to chaos for decades and now suddenly everyone is an "undivided" army that gets a few pledges per game?
Raptorixes are chaff-line. Furies are really not. That is the difference.
varanguard seem a tad ridiculous
Is it possibile to download this rules somewhere?
Download the index rules, change a few words here and there. Done.
@baptistebrochot135 :(
@@Strade8 I mean, I guess you could pre-order the new tome tomorrow, wait two weeks or so for delivery, and have the physical book for yourself. But given how small the changes are, you could just write down the changes from the index and be done with it in less than an hour.
@@baptistebrochot135 so they are not going to upload a pdf free version?
no changes to belakor, varanguard and chosen makes me want to play less AoS.
Very Fair
How would Gunnar get 20+ attacks
10 x 2
@ I know but how he is a unique hero ohhhhhh hold on its because he has strike first and last against heroes
The rules are worse than bad or good, they're boring. Dark Apotheosis *could* be fun but realistically won't go off often and the payoff is not even great, I have to say they sucked a lot of fun out of this edition compared to 3e. The pledges are better than marks (taking a static mechanic out of list building into a dynamic game play choice) but that's about all I can say. Subfactions suck so much this edition. This is probably going to be the status quo until the tomes start coming out late next year, for the first time I'm actually happy some of my armies aren't getting tomes until later.
Please include timestamps
i finished recording at 2 am so ill get to them at some point
Still missing the rune shields. I miss my 5+ ward against mortal wounds 😔
I can't believe they, once again, reprinted the index and did a change that could have been part of a monthly update and fit on a 2 page pdf.
Gives me 0 hope for the upcoming IJ and KB tomes sadly...
"Gives me 0 hope for the upcoming IJ and KB tomes sadly..."
Yeah...about that...
I'm also disappointed
Nothing on the aor?
feels like they changed some of the stuff that i liked and keot the lame and/or useless stuff the same. really lazy imo
Daemon Prince can't be Chaos Undivided - again... I'm disappointed.
Actually, you can (the wording is "you can pick one of the following pledges"). It just gains no benefit from it.
pretty disappointing battle tome tbh.
Really fair take
Grants SoD players.... SCE look at THAT just after our battletome and pretty sad))))
no more eye of the gods :(
If I didn’t already have 2 other armies to finish this book makes me want to start a s2d army
As it stands, I hate what they've done to Slaves. This is just downright downgraded 3E Slaves.
4ed is just that.
*sidegraded. Lots of what was unusable and shit is now not shit, and lots of what was great is now meh. I think overall it’s an improvement, seems to be less meta and autopick this time around.
They are still amazingly strong. They are even more boring to play but std players aren't looking for finesse in the game. Is just charge-> win.
@Strade8 I personally enjoyed the synergetic idea we used to be. 1E was awful - but the aura effect of the Chosen and the now discontinued Warshrine were awesome to me. Chaining effects for interesting plays was fun and forced creativity - I just wanted that but with capable profiles. Chosen with more than 1 health, more than one damage, more than one rend. Same for the Knights, and for the Warriors I really just wanted them to be cheaper or maybe have a better save - they were okay otherwise. Now we admittedly hit like a truck, but... I feel like a lot of our uniqueness is just gone. I loved our survivability, I loved the Runeshields, our auras. I just wanted to actually be able to kill things, too - not even have to demolish them, but at least be capable of killing instead of twidling sticks
@SeppukuAddict Truthfully can't argue with your latter, but for your former? Army-wide Eye of the God's was a wonderful change that actually made it mean something and actually let it occur. From only heroes receiving it in against other heroes 1E and with a possibility that it would actually be worse than having not gotten it, to only heroes on heroes and monsters, to every unit on any unit but with a mitigated but guaranteed rewards, back to now only ONE HERO this time being able to MAYBE heal just 3 damage or turn into a different profile... that you would have been better off grabbing in the list-building process if you really wanted him. That, is a MASSIVE downgrade. The Banners are admittedly just a side grade though, you're right