Westworld Is Overrated - NitPix
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 เม.ย. 2018
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Westworld is not the best world.
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I disagree almost completely which is why I'm unsubbing and killing myself
I appreciate a good comment like this one
Don't do it! We love you!
ChardBotham You do what you gotta do
this is so good out of context
Would you consider doing it in a different order?
The Problem with WestWorld, and most long running TV dramas these days, is that they are stretching what was a great idea for a 90 minute movie into a 20-60 hour show.
Amen, by season two there is also tons of filler that adds nothing to the main story and after 3-4 episodes there are a myriad of subplots that end up going nowhere and just end.
That’s a problem?
@TheNewyorkdragon no... He's definitely right
90 minutes? Nah more like 1 season
Whatever else you may think of British shows, they almost consistently know when to end.
Whenever there is an American remake, they run it into the ground 4+ seasons after running out of ideas.
The Office, House of Cards...
The thing that really bugged me was that technician who helped Maeve murder his co-workers. I could suspend my disbelief about everything else, but that just felt too weird. Also, she cut his buddy's throat and then... They saw him back up with a laser and he's fine?
*sees a video criticizing ww*
Me: "doesn't look like anything to me"
@@capablanc
Couldn't disagree with you any more.
@@capablanc Poor acting!!! I would vote West World the best in term of acting. Well maybe only the invalids see the subtleties.
Westworld taught me an important lesson: If you want to make people feel smart, just throw a lot of heady themes at them with little regard for how they're incorporated into the story and characters.
Damn right!!!!
Man, I hope nobody will crucify you for your opinion.
No one on the internet would EVER do that, right?
*Imagine my surprise*
This isn’t DikPix
*Imagine my shark.*
and disagreeing and explaining why disagree means crucifying?
hmm read your own words again
"Boring buildups to twists with no narrative substance that end up nowhere."
The legacy of Lost still haunts television.
oh god ur right and ive not thought about lost for like a decade. I did season one and then partway thru season 2 i was so angry at more and more questions / teasers / cliffhangers and not a single F-ing explanation or answer that i flat out quit watching, forgot all about it and later when it was all done just read how it ended on wiki or something lol. F that show honestly
HA!
its a case of the emperors new clothes...not much going on there, but everyone is too afraid to be called stupid or out of touch to point it out
The temptation to watch a new NitPix video and ruin Westworld rather than watching Westworld first is too much for me, damn your seductive tones!
Perpetual Peter I think you should honestly watch WestWorld first not gonna lie
Same
It's an amazing show, give it a watch.
Watch the show you moron.
Behold the plotholes, though. Ohh, the plotholes... those plot... holes. I must've sounded like a crazy person to my neighbours, because I was constantly arguing with the screen.
Maeve's story was her breaking out. As you watch that, you believe she is having a parallel "awaking" experience like Dolores. As she learns more of herself, you realize that she was programmed to escape since the beginning and all her choices are not her own but she believes it is. And at the very end when she chooses to stay in the park and find her "daughter", that was her first choice she took independently thus concluding her arc and completing the "Maze".
But why was it her first independant choice? And how does an audience supposed to believe this, if character's decision can always be whiped clean by revealing that it was programmed all-along? These "twists" are littered thoughout the show so abundantly, that at some point the impact is nullified and you just can no longer be bothered to care. For a show so heavily reliant on themes of AI it's real sketchy on how exactly host's mind works, which leaves so much room for plotholes and incosistancies. The show revels in vague philosophical speeches on the implications of such techology, but provides no believable insight in it's inner workings.
Damn, that's a lot to reply too, but I'll try my best.
"Why was it her first independant choice?" Because she finally suffered enough to gain true sentience, which is explain by Ford that Harold thought that was the way to create true consciousness. The objective of the maze was for the hosts to reach this level.
"How does an audience supposed to believe this, if character's decision can always be whiped clean by revealing that it was programmed all-along?" Not sure what you are asking here, but whiping the host memory clean is part of gain sentience since the echoes of their suffering are still in them. This refines the process of turning a host from a puppet to person. This is why Bernard is whiped over and over because he has not reached the end of the maze and cannot accend to the next level of consciousness.
These are not "twists" these are reveals that build up on the story and logic established. The audience is supposed to know this if they were paying attention.
Most of the speeches are Ford's ideas vs Harold ideas but at the end Ford used Harold ideas but applyed better deepening the idea of how our very own consciousness came to be.
The way the Host's mind works is explained many times over and even how/why they programmed that way. I haven't noticed any plotholes or inconsistencies, but feel free to point them out.
Thanks for a fast reply!
I guess I muddled my question with poor choice of words. With "character's decision can always be wiped clean" I didn't mean to refer to the memory wipe. Rather, I was implying that these reveals are done so frequently, that it's hard for an audience to connect with the host characters, since every decision of theirs can be undermined by later revealing that, yeah, they were programmed to do that. I understand that not being in control of your choices is a major theme, but this ruins character progression and weakens story.
As a viewer I percieved Maeve's storyline as her breaking out of the loop, aquiring a consciousness, but it all turned out to be Ford's programming as a covoluted roundabout to bring plot to the desired point. So what exactly should indicate that she has free will, when she decides to seek out her daughter? Is her seeing mother with a child on that train considered the experience that turns a programmed machine into a sentient being?
I remember having a lot of gripe with technical organization of the park, when I watched the series as it was coming out, but that was more than a year ago, so I'll have to refresh my memory before pointing out anything specific.
I was less involved with the characters and more into the ideas that they represented, which could be why I don't have that much of an issue with the character progression. Yet I did find myself rooting for the Host to find the end of the Maze, since their suffering seems so real. I believe you are only suppose to connect with Dolores and Maeve and use the other characters (ideas as I see them) to add context to their evolution.
And yes, her seeking out her daughter indicates her free will. Ford shows her that everything she is doing to escape is part of her programming, but believes it is her own choices. It is established that Maeve wants to find her daughter but doesn't do anything about it until the end when she realized what she truely wanted and broke free from her programming. Her seeing them (mother and daughter) was the last trigger, knowing she was programmed to leave the park made her have a crisis of choice which solved itself by her reaching the end of the "Maze".
And yeah, I agree there are some technical issues with where hosts are and how long the park's "story loop" goes. Some characters (hosts and humans) seem to go on multi-day adventures but other characters (hosts and humans) seem to take part/be part of the loop the next day. They explained that hosts can go off the path and "improvise" but something still seemed off.
Also the guns and how they work. What kind of bullets do they use? Why was the mad in black fine getting shot before but not at the end? How come they shoot hard enough to make holes but nothing to humans. But that is just a nitpick and I'm willing to suspend my belief enough for it to work, but I did find myself wondering things like that.
This is all just how I remember it btw. I could be wrong about things. I saw it when it was coming out too.
“This show is literally as pretentious as Hannibal”
At least Hannibal has character arcs and basic story progression lol
But does it? Does it really?
@@carinadominguez22 Yes.
@@luiginastro8831 Nope
Hey, hot tip: if you want people to watch your videos, make the opening easier to get through.
Damn straight! That was annoying as fuck
Wait till the cringe as fuck otro
Fucking hell. THIS!
3 whole minutes of it LOL
me" oh it cant be that bad" ......yeah it was that bad.
I love how you're always pushing the quality of how you present your content with each video
quality? is him screaming into a mic, derailing the theme/focus, confusing its tone/point and overall degrading the entire video just to add run time and get his face on screen 'quality'? ok
If you can't acknowledge the quality of this production, you're just a salty bitch.
Do you find it ironic how hesays "how could 20 million people be wrong" about enjoying some shitty mobile game... but one of his arguments is that this show is overrated despite several more millions liking it?
@@ErgonomicChair you realize that’s an ad? Give most people enough money and they’ll lie about how good your product is
@@allsmilesguy Yes and if no one tells people the products are complete shit, how will they know?
If you took out all the "not westworld" parts it wouldnt be westworld, it would just be some western show.
Theres only two basic plots happening so its not hard to follow.
Yeah I never got lost watching it and I binged the whole series in a day while sleep deprived.
I am deaf and blind and 3 years old and I watched it on 3x speed and I followed it better than the writers of the show
The problem with the non-park storylines isn't that they're hard to follow, it's that they're boring and have no effect on the overall narrative.
Kyle Kyleson. I was never bored and they ARE the narrative. This shows narrative is built around several co linear stories, so its incomplete if you only see the park stories.
Erimad yeah right buddy! Everyone and there mother knows this show is a twisted clusterfuck and that is not necessarily a bad thing because I actually like the show but the fact that the producer overwhelmingly tangles timelines to confuse the watcher but enlighten them at the same time is one of the problems with the show, the show simply doesn’t flow enough and this is why I agree with this video! I’m all for thinking profoundly but when it feels like that was the sole objective of the show it becomes cringe worthy!
the video starts at 2:40
TheLonelyToe thank you
Fuck off.
No it doesn’t, it starts at 0:00 with a different and more interesting way of presenting its argument at the start.
Whose this for? People with the attention span of a squirrel?
For people who aren't willing to sit through the cringiest fucking 3 minutes of an otherwise interesting video, I legit almost dropped it.
17th of April?!! You're late! How dare you!!!!!!
Though you have good points, maeve's purpose is to be the ai that truly makes her own decisions, whereas the revolution was not a choice, and was preprogrammed, but designed to make it seem like it was their choice.
What? I dont think thats what maeves purpose was.
She clearly had a mission, her story/narrative: Go to the mainland and infiltrate it. She probably was supposed to infiltrate Delos corporation to gain power to help the hosts escape Westworld and become free.
However, she seemed to reach consciousness right before leaving Westworld in the train, because she decided that her daughter had a higher priority. That was her choice.
Dolores was supposed to be the host to reach consciousness by not wiping her memory and instead allowing her to access her them (aka reveries). She was supposed to be selfaware to lead the hosts when the revolution starts.
Yes, everything else was pretty much programmed. We can see Ford planning the finale with his miniature (there is the church and tin soldiers in the woods).
the revolution wasnt programmed but predicted and manipulated. programming suggests that dolores had no choice her body was under fords control. she did have a choice she just chose to follow through with his plan. theres a difference between her being FORCED to do certain things and her agreeing to do certain things that Ford could have forced her to do but didnt force her to do. he Merely gave her an outline for the revolution and she followed it because she knew his motivation was truly to free them. this raises the question of influence. is manipulation and influence a form of mind control or do we still have a choice even if someone set up all the perfect conditions and environmental factors to influence our decision? is allowing someone to influence you surrendering your free will? dolores ALLOWED Ford to influence her because it was the only way out, either way it was her choice. she couldve chosen to go back to her loop.
I'm petitioning for a real life Ranchworld, i wanna smell a Rooster-bot so he'll never leave me
What's with the guy with puke on his face in the beginning and end
A plant you're probably not intellectual enough to get it
Oh, right. A Clockwork Orange. Never cared for that one.
Cuong Le uh, are you telling me you skipped the stick figure drawings that were used as inspiration for the comics?
Wow, talk about a fake fan.
2:40 to skip the ad.
Bloody film students.
film student+british=catastrophe
Maeve's character arch is defined by leaving the train. She found out that her rebellious nature was programmed in her by Ford so she could leave the park but at the end her staying was a statement to show that now she has free will.
Character "arch"? 😂
Totally disagree about Maeve. Her final revelation was that even though she thought she had broken out of the system and was outsmarting everyone, all of her moves had been pre-programmed after all. Nothing she had done that she (or we the audience) thought was "breaking out of her programming" was actually her idea. So it's like another level of control. The fact that she decides to turn around and go find her daughter WAS her own independent move. It went against what had been programmed. She acted on emotion (finding the center of her own maze in a different way than Delores).
And to answer your question about how we're supposed to root for or relate to - I got the impression that we were supposed to root for Delores and Bernard. I thought that was pretty obvious. Bernard especially was a brilliant focal point for the audience because we thought he was human for a majority of the show. He was the only "human" who seemed to have a relatable and compassionate outlook on the park, plus he had a tragic backstory. So we could relate to him as audience members. That's what makes his revelation as a machine so much more shocking. I loved it.
And he's not the same? Whaaaat? No way. The one thing he does differently is letting go of his "tragedy." I dunno if you've ever lost someone in an untimely fashion, but that kind of loss becomes a HUGE part of your identity. And the fact that "tragedy" in your backstory is genuinely used as a programming cornerstone was fascinating to me. Bernard accesses that part of himself and lets it go. He has totally released himself from the one thing that holds him together as a program. I imagine we will see the results of that in coming seasons.
I dunno dude, I think you need to watch it again. There are plenty of things I could criticize about this show, but it seems like you didn't really put too much thought into your analysis. It seems a bit dismissive. You've done better - All I'm saying:)
I do agree that the writer kind of blew his load on the first season tho. I would've loved more world building and more time to explore the park while it was working the way it was supposed to - At least for the first season.
THANK YOU!
The creator of Westworld (michael Crighton, also creator of Jurassic Park) has passed way. Since the franchise's creator is no more & hasnt left extensive notes or schooled disciples to continue its work, then it is clear that a possible remake/new series of an previous established franchise wont have strong themes as the original.
The original Westworld wasnt that deep either (since it was a movie). M. Chrighton's other work, Jurassic Park was much deeper since it was first a book series, then a film. By definition, books are much more complex than movies.
As such to conclude, because Westworld creator has passed away & original Westworld wasnt that deep, it is only natural that the new Westworld wouldnt be as deep. HBO has gone for the visual approach and few characters are complex. Also a problem of the new series is that some plans hinge on the incompetence of people/bots etc.
Hey man, I just want to drop in and say: I tend to dive into your comment section when you post videos, and I see all the shit you get, but I sincerely enjoy your vids and sense of humor. I like the skits. You do you, bro. Make your content the way you want to make it, and I'll be excited to see it.
i really don't see any "shit" here only an abudance of well-mannered and articulated disagreements...but nah let's just call it shit so those who might disagree will look bad aimirite
jesus the s t r a w m a n n i n g intensifies
Westworld is plot driven, not character driven. what your asking for cant work at all given what the plot is about, yes character development is great but when the characters are simply trying to become themselves and not just props in a park you cant really make it sound like the show is shitting the bed cause they havent fully developed in their arcs, they just found their identity for gods sake. i disagree that ford needed development, unless they showed how he came to his current thought process, that hardly hurt the character. I also disagree with the notion im getting from this video that character arcs have to lead people to be better versions of themselves, ie William, he developed, just not in the way you wanted.
incompetent is a strong word, yes pissing on shit is incompetent, fucking the robots that are 'incapable of anything' 'generally' isnt really incompetent, freaky yes but not incompetent. Like what, are all employees supposed to assume that at any given moment these things can just gain self awareness,if that was the case they would never work there, or at least have a gun pointed at it all the time. also, regarding mavie escaping, like i said they would not assume her to be conscious but just following the other employees orders, like all the robots do. you watched the show and that was pretty clear so that point seems a little misinformative to anyone who hasnt watched the show yet.
16:00 but fire isnt pyrotechnics, its not an explosion, its just fire. how the hell would they control the literal flames? explosions i can understand cause there is probably a switch or trigger involved. there is no off switch to a literal flame. plus they cant let humans get hurt, who cares if the hosts do, its dirt cheap to fix them it seems.
I really really LIKED the show, and kept waiting on something big to surprise me. But it never hit that height. It just sort of flat lines with a bump here and there. Still a good show. But I expected a lot more.
I know you did a video on Doctor Who but why is there a Silurian in the bottom corner at 8:55?
nightowl I don't get it
I hope you look up the parts of the video which people skipped, because it should be obvious.
I actually agree with a lot of this, but I ended up disliking the ending of Westworld for a whole different reason. Essentially, what I took to be the morality of the show, was that human beings are evil because they abused the hosts for their own pleasure and entertainment. They treated the hosts like property, but by all accounts, the hosts ARE property. Any non-Ford character saw them as hunks of electronics that just happened to look and act human-like. The massacre of the humans at the end of the first season to me was a horror. I didn't see an abused under class rising up against their oppressors, I saw real people getting murdered by malfunctioning equipment. I know I'm supposed to see the hosts as some form of consciousness, but the people had no way of knowing that AI had progressed to a point that they were essentially human. And can something that can be reprogrammed on a whim by humans really be human? Honestly I don't think so. I guess I just always have a problem with narratives of "one group bad, one group good" especially when the bad group is mankind
If any being is sentient and sapient than that being cannot be "property". Treating a sentient and sapient being with total disregard for them and their genuine suffering is immoral. Hunks of electronics or hunks of cells, electronic computers or biological computers (think we are in total control of our brains?), born or manufactured. None of that matters, what matters is what somebody thinks and feels. And if a being has a free will and can feel things then it's an *individual* not property. You don't own anybody's thinking or their feelings and you sure as h*ll can't deny them that or treat them totally indifferently.
This very thinking triggers the whole host revolution. And the people who got brutally killed by them were simply unfortunate they happened to be there when this happened. In a way it serves them right.
" saw real people getting murdered by malfunctioning equipment." then I'm afraid you're malfunctioning and I also hope you won't find yourself triggering off many people you are completely cold and indifferent towards.
You also forget that we're biologically programmed to act and behave a certain way. We act on electric impulses in our brains and synapses between or nerves. Chemical processes in our brain and elsewhere in our body give us our sensations. We are way more controlled by our genes, instincts (primitive) and or basic needs (eating, keeping warm, finding shelter) than you think. Are you absolutely sure the difference between us and synthetic humans is as huge as you seem to think it is? Your "argument" can just as well be used to prove that humans aren't really feeling anything and are just programmed/designed by mother nature/evolution to act a certain way (and we are). Slave owners certainly believed black slaves didn't really have any real emotions and if they had they were inferior to theirs and as such couldn't possibly be of any other use than slave labor. They were property and hence he the role their master had assigned for them and nothing else.
"Happen to look and act human-like" If they are sentient and sapient and can pass the Turing test they're independent, intelligent beings. If they display genuine affections and emotions treating them with total disregard is cruel and immoral.
"And can something that can be reprogrammed on a whim by humans really be human?" True, not human. In fact superior to humans in this regard. What wouldn't any of us give to change our "core programming" ? All therapists and psychologists would be out of a job for starters. And who wouldn't want to be smarter on a whim?
The bottom line is that the hosts themselves *believe* they're humans before they learn the truth. They act precisely like humans would in their situation. Would you say it's ok to torture, kill and use people who think they're humans with zero regard for them and their obviously genuine emotions?
As for the hosts. I don't see them as some innocent victims after their uprising but I do find it ironic and funny that something people designed and thought they could control turned on them. Perhaps they made the hosts a bit too much like humans...
@@tucoramirez4558 you completely missed his point. Do you treat all of you electronics with the same respect as another person? No because you see them as machines. If your electronics had a life of their own you would not know. That what the users were in west world.
Yeah and I'm getting so bored with "they look just like us, they talk just, they have the same exact emotions but they're actually different. Because...reasons.
I didn't really like it in Blade runner and I really don't like it now. If you think about it the only thing that makes them tech is because the characters say so and (I'm looking at you, Black Mirror) torturing a sentient, thinking, feeling being would never be legal. In fact I believe France already has laws on the books to prevent this kind of thing once the tech allows it.
Yo, NitPix, What?
I don't intend dying but I'll reply if I survive tomorrow.
Elizabeth Brown are you alive?
Way to go nitpix. You just killed a person.
Elizabeth Brown so you good?
You dead?
I wasn't too keen on the stuff that wasn't the review, but if you enjoy doing it, all power to you.
N i was so knee's bees about it, power me up.
Rebecca Loptson I also did not like those parts... Just, agh...
The review was okay to me...
Maybe if you payed attention you’d be able to follow along easier.
T Tgibbz Like you did in spelling class?
"spelling class"
WobblyBits_X “quotation marks”
whop Cheap insults deserve cheap roasts.
whop Sure it was. He was saying the video maker made a 21 + minute video on a subject he “didn’t pay attention to” and then implied he had trouble “following along”. Do you even understand subtext and nuance in human conversation or do you not really interact w many people? Maybe if you left the house once in a while you’d be able to follow social cues easier. See how that was an insult too?
I adore Westworld and honestly kinda agree with the stuff outside the park been considerably less interesting. Hopkins, the music, and inside the park are stellar. However I consider those scenes to be of significant importance (Outside the park), without them the big plot points wouldn't work as well as they do (you need to build Bernard as a character to show his relation to Arnold, there are many others). All the different plot lines are hard to follow, granted. That's something I love though, Game of Thrones has the same situation. It thrives through multiple watches. Westworld far more in my opinion because the show almost feels like it was written backwards, they figured out the ending and put hints in the show when working backwards. There are slow scenes but that's the case for 97% of TV show and movies. So you have to deal with it, if not just watch Fury Road if you want to be straight in there.
Well, season 2 was worse... So...
I expected to disagree but I actually didn't
NGL beginning of the video was really weird, not a bg fan of it...
Highlander 21 same
I have a friend called Elizabeth Brown...
Mysterious Mr OCD make sure she’s ok...
I bet she didn’t even see this video
I like NitPix and agree with most of the points in this video, but that intro was so cringey
Have you seen many Nitpix videos?
I know this is a 2 year old comment but I just have to say that this is also an incredibly stupid comment and it's so fucking annoying that we have to call everything that deviates from the blandest and safest forms of expression as 'cringey'. The intro was entertaining and actually provided a funny Segway into the ad. I know this is an old comment on an old video, but cringe culture is just as strong today as it was back then. Don't mock people from trying to be funny or original or we will all end up watching the same 'safe' and 'boring' form of media there is out there that couldn't possibly make someone cringe.
i have to say, i disagree
Aaron Stickle Bravo sir. We are all behind you
Music playing in the background is "Maria Tambien" by Khruangbin
I know the attack of the killer tomatoes starring Jeff Goldbloom was a joke but I want it now.
I'm truly sorry Elizabeth Brown.
Edit: will she die from a Nutmeg overdose?
i totally agree with you. the production value and premise tricked people into thinking they were watching somthing high quality. By the time they realised it was a bland and generic HBO drama they were already too deeply invested to admit it was a bit below the bar it set itself.
16:00 the bit about authorized pyrotechnics, lighting an explosive isn't the same as knocking an already lit lamp over...?
Season 2 got lost so far up its ass... I could barely sit through the last episode. This show thinks it's smarter than it is. Just revelation after revelation that makes it seem as if it was worth your time when you have that "aha!" moment. Not to mention how hyped was the new content like Eastworld and Rajworld and they approached that in the laziest way...
How can something be smarter than it thinks it is ? This critism is pretentious and doesn't make any sense.
I hate to disagree with you, but this show isn't necessarily a character piece, it doesn't need real character development because that's not what the show is about. Yes game of thrones has great character development but the current seasons lack the complex narratives that shows like this have. I know your channel is literally called NitPix, but I don't think a well-written, well-acted, beautifully-shot show like this deserved a full video on it. But that's just my opinion, I still enjoyed the videos and usually agree with everything you say
All hail the new era of the 'non story' stories. Ala Star Wars - The Last Jedi. You probably liked that too I bet. hehehe
PCWarMachine non-story story? This literally had one of the most interesting, compelling, unique, complex storyline I've ever seen on TV! And no I didn't really like The Last Jedi but it did have a story so I don't really know why you mentioned it
I think the issue lays with the idea that it's difficult for people such as NitPix and others to be invested in a good storyline if it's "stunted" by the characters themselves not having a reason to care about what's going on around them. I haven't seen the show myself, I just like watching the reviews, but a story is furthered by the characters, and if the characters only feel like a tool to continue the story, then it can often nullify the impact of the story that it's trying to tell. If you find the story compelling nonetheless, then there's nothing wrong with that at all. It means you had more enjoyment out of a series than someone else, which is never a bad thing! However, there are always aspects of writing (character + story) that could be improved upon, and critics tend to look at those lackings in various lights of severity. NitPix happens to be one of the critics who look at it in a more harsh light.
LE FINALE SOLUTION yeah I guess it's all down to personal preference and what you yourself look for in a show. It's just the way the video is titled I think that makes it seem like less of an opinion and more of an objective thing, as well as him calling the show boring as if it's a fact. But I still really like NitPix's videos and thought this one was still a very good video I just disagreed with a lot of points
But what’s the point of a great story if you don’t like or care about the characters or grow with them through character development?
Whats this?! Opinions!?! Can not compute!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
What are you even saying
@@kmk1225 He's taking the piss out of all the triggered morons who can't handle someone who shares a different opinion to them. The kind of people who think "If you don't like X you must be Z"
The trigger for Maze was the same trigger for Delores the "These violent delights" quote was a trigger.
Usually like your stuff, and this is well done... for instance what made Will say Delores isn't like the others were the signs she was questioning her reality when none of the others did. It wasn't that he thought she was a person, he was seeing what seemed to be a spark of self awareness... and all those other scenes were a mix of Delores trying to understand her internal changes (her internal voice was originally the voices of other with the idea that eventually her own would take over), and past loops being only partially remembered, but not recognized for what they are.
Mave had similar revelations, but her reactions were drastically different... in the end there was the reveal both she and Delores was still following their programming to do different things- but you also wonder how much in that was them actually starting to self identify and just not follow a program.
I totally understand finding how it was done boring, I can happen to watch first season multiple times, but not the other seasons.
I do think most of the questions to why things and pelple are doing things they do end up explained, but it did take me a few watches to notice a bunch of things since I didn't take notes lol!
I like this show but God do I loathe the dialogue. Someone will have a gun to their head and they respond with "I remember when I was younger. There was this beautiful sunset. A breeze blowing from the east. Bison on the planes. My father walked up and..." Oh my God shut the fuck up!
It's like they thought "what if Rachel Maddow was a work of fiction?"
I actually really liked season 1 of Westworld. Season 2 on the other hand was disappointing mess, with a handful of decent moments
YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR NITPIX
At 12:45 when you criticize Dolores for not acting human you used a scene from a later trip with William. Ther Dolores is already in the midst of remembering the multiple journeys with and without William, who incidentally also has the longer beard he only gets after he goes rambo. While I respect your overall opinion I think you are wrong regarding Dolores seeming human on her first trip with William.
Hi! I found your channel through the 13 reasons why video you made and I just wanted to tell you you're already at 100k! Congrats and I love your content 💕
21 solid minutes of missing the point. It's hard to argue with a video without making wall text that no one reads but I'll give it a shot because no one should be able to use this shit to dismiss WestWorld. I won't have it.
First, WestWorld doesn't need a main character. But if you have to pick one it would almost certainly be Bernard. The revelation that he's a host and no one knew but Ford AND that he figures it out and has to be reset periodically changes everything about the narrative and how we see the hosts. It's isn't "devalued". It's the entire point. The hosts don't get to have linear growth. WestWorld could be said to be about a lot of things, but it's important to say that it's really not about technology. At all. We don't know how the park works. It doesn't matter. What it's mostly about is the nature and purpose of storytelling. And a creators relationship to their creation. That's why the painting of God creating Adam is referenced multiple times. It's asking the question of "What if the characters of my story could hate me? Would they?". That's why Ford is always making vague threats and proclamations. He has a God complex because he's a God metaphor. The question is about whether he was benevolent or had ill intent and what that means. It's why we follow William through the park as a newcomer, and why he becomes obsessed with Deloris. He's looking for something missing in himself through this narrative. When he can't find it he becomes twisted and destructive toward it. Kinda like a fanboy actually. Funny that. Meta commentary? Maybe.
A lot of this criticism just comes from the story not being over yet.
I'd also like to point out that when you say that Nolan should "chill the fuck out" you're really just saying that he should be less ambitious. You can't reference a renaissance painting or have characters pontificate without SOMEONE calling you pretentious.
Also "boring" is shit criticism.
Also fuck you Mav is great and a perfect example of why this story is more dark Pinocchio than Terminator.
Also before someone says it I wasn't even totally on board the whole way though it. It just deserves better.
Maeve's storyline had so much potential, yet it devolved into "empowered black woman fights the establishment" cliche so quickly, that by the midpoint of the season I dreaded another scene with her and by the end I could not stop laughing hysterlically.
"Maeve's storyline had so much potential, accept for the part where she's "black"".
\Would you care to elaborate because this is all I'm getting.
Hey, she's also a woman, don't forget about that. Honestly, she just fits the trope too much and then the story forms around her according to the trope.
I like the concept of person discovering their "life loop", overcoming their instincts and gambling on immortality to transcend into "afterlife" and reach their goal. It's very mythological and in the show it reminded me of Planescape Torment a little bit. Though Maeve's storyline is mostly about family, exploitation of women, women empowerment. These themes are more trendy, but important nonetheless and could be portrayed in an compelling manner. I just don't think they were.
Unlocking her max intelligence in ep6 didn't really amount to much, since everyone around her was already established to be an incompetent idiot. Why was there a feature that could allow a host to code and do whatever it wants completely unnoticed by security? This is nitpicking though.
Ultimatly, like many other characters in the show Maeve is a conveluted plot-device, programmed by Ford to start an uprising. She's selfish and cruel, as any AI probably would be, yet she's constantly portrayed as a wronged party justified in her actions. As a character she is mostly motivated by desires of personal freedom and revenge against opressors, but her arc ends with a parental theme, which doesn't have much presence throughout her story. It is used sparingly as more of a traditional tool of human connection to the character, rather then the driving force behind character's actions. And I don't think that it would work either way, since the traditional concept of parenthood, imo, doesn't mesh well with things like sentient AI.
UltimateSacrifice Glad someone explained it than me, first time I tried watching this I was irked to no end. I'm not a huge Westworld fan and have issues with the pacing mostly being inconsistent with the flow for certain episodes, but enjoyed it overall and it's just a minor flaw I thought.
This video...this video just proved to me these guys have no clue what they're talking about in the slightest. You can have different opinions, but to make retarded claims such as "lack of character development"...like no, no, no it has that completely and if you don't enjoy any of the characters, sure, that's fair but don't pretend it's due to the writing and dialogue just straight up admit you could not relate to the characters.
And that fucking intro, god fucking awful. I fast forward from it so quickly. Wasn't funny in the least bit just fucking awful and had me already rolling my eyes by the time they started the review.
I only really liked the Jim Carrey video, personally, I think they aren't great reviewers but I thought to give a smaller channel a shot.
Eh...
Well i was going to reply to the video but you hit the nail on the head sir. Almost. I mean if i have to rant about something that would be that Deloris was kinda boring because she took too long to get over her suffering loop it got tedious. Maive was awesome up until the point she just got superpowers out of nowhere, because to be fair there is no damn reason to make hosts have that much potential intelligence. And even if you do there is no reason more of them don't get upgraded after their uprising or shortly before it.
That said i think the show did a great job of exploring consciousness and self awareness not only through dialog but through cinematography aswell. Also nobody fucking mentioned the fact that the "In the game" part was colorful and vibrant while the human world was dark and devoid of colors, which was a brilliant trick.
It doesn't get better. Skip to 2:42.
"Criticizing art is how a make art" is the new way of saying "kink shaming is my kink"
So season 2 I think achieved the greatest moment of the entire series where William really killed his daughter thinking she was a robot. And then.... the final episode ruined all that progress.
sam, who hurt u? u ok? do u need to talk
I diagree, I completely love Westworld
Sorry to take it to the extreme, but some people loved Batman vs Superman
Shit taste is not so uncommon
J Arnett BTFO
+J Arnett
Yea but that was a minority.
Hans Rickam ?
My big problem with Westworld is with the premise itself. While Westworld is called a theme park let's be honest, its actually a live- action open world rpg. Only here's the thing, there is no PLAYER-CHARACTER PROGRESSION. The androids are wiped each night and the human players are invincible.
Thats not how an rpg works. The creators of this series supposedly were inspired by the game Red Dead Redemption and the way such games can bring out the worst in people because its not real. But this isn't necessarily true, just because the player themself can't suffer any kind of consequences by playing, doesn't mean the player-character can't. Losing the game, loss of useful items, horse death, high bounties, even something as simple as being shamed by other characters because they REMEMBER your actions, are consequences that the player-character, and by extension the player, may face.
Its a necessary part of the immersion in any rpg for there to be obstacles for the player to overcome. What is there in Westworld for players to overcome, when they are essentially in godmode and there are zero consequences? Not even the most basic pen and paper games behave like that. Obviously you can't harm the human player in the park, but why isn't there a virtual points system to or something? How is it that they overcame all the technological hurdles and logistical challenges just to fail at basic game design? Westworld isn't just boring to as a show, its boring in theory too, it fails to understand the relationship between the player and the player-character, player motivation, and instead waters it all down to a simplistic human=bad message.
I know this video is a year old but please what is that song starting at about 17:15 😭
I didn't think Bates Motel was a cashgrab :/ it's actually a pretty decent show
I whole heartily agree with this, the shows premise has so much potential but season one was a convoluted mess that could sometimes be quite dull.
Is that "Bomb Thrown" from the new MF DOOM album playing in the background? I keep noticing your choice of DOOM tracks.
14:00 “bomb throw” instrumental in the background
Am I the only one who watches these only for the tracklist
I really want to be able to finish the video to hear you out, but I can't shake the feeling that you just aren't the target audience and are coming at it from the wrong point of view. Like, a lot of times it's great to hear your analysis or hear someone else's point of view, but this whole review feels really--empty. It's like hearing a die-hard documentary/non-fiction fan bashing Star Wars for it's tonal dissonance from things they usually like, or a child bashing Game of Thrones for being confusing and scary.
It's just like the maze, mate--it's not for you.
Normal Ghost noice
The idea is interesting, but after watching just 4 episodes I am bored already. Who is the intended target audience?
not you
Rick and morty fans
Someone disagrees with me? Oh, they must be incompetent and out of the loop. They can't be the target audience therefore not worthy of criticising. That's the only explanation.... the only explanation.... doesn't look like anything to me....
Here to do a usual just subscribed comment: I don't have money to give you, so we get to get our thing based on support and hoping for youtube to not demonetize your videos. So, you are great and your soundtrancks are just sweet! Cheers! Keep up! Have a good one!
Wait...did you just make a Hannibal reference? Could your next video be on it? I’m kind of curious what your take on it is. Good video by the way, I like your slam rap in the beginning 👌
RIP Elizabeth Brown
You're completely wrong about the William storyline.
Care to elaborate?
This has the potential to be a valid point if you'd elaborate??
Thank you. You helped me put into context and perspective as to why I was getting bored with the series. I tried watching it, and I made a little over halfway through before I gave up on the show. Lately, I've been giving up on a lot of shows, because they all seem to either get boring, confusing, slow-paced, or some combination of all three. It's like people think that Peak TV requires a show to move at a slow pace with pretentiousness. Right now, my seven favorite dramatic tv shows that are currently ongoing are: Doctor Who, Game of Thrones, Altered Carbon, Stranger Things, Preacher, Mr. Robot, and The Magicians. Some of these shows suffer from pretentiousness and a slow pace, but still deliver quality moments of tv.
The little trees at 8:23 look like nugs of weed!
love ya natfloox ;)
I really love Westworld, but honestly I think my love of the show has a lot less to do with the coherence (or lack thereof) of the plot than it does the show's exploration of body politics and autonomy. As a woman, much of Westworld's focus on the disposability and objectification of the hosts, as well as Dolores and Maeve's burgeoning consciousness, feels very personal to me. The show delves into these themes in ways that most other shows have barely tried to touch. But I also think your criticisms are totally valid - I think we're just looking for different things from Westworld, which is totally fine. Part of the beauty of entertainment as art form. Also, I have to say I like that my name in the Patreon credits is just KATIE. I've become a mononymic legend like Cher, Prince, and Elvis. Brilliant.
Katie W. Indeed, I feel the same way about the male hosts who are used as a cannon fodder.
Katie W. It's deep fake 70s level thinking, in the end. I watch for the boobs. Nothing new, but we see the robot boobs.
Katie W. This show deals with much deeper themes then something as trivial as gender. Get your mind out of the gutter.
DirtyDinner24 if you are a big sci fi fan, there is nothing new in it, you've seen it all before, just without less boobs. It's deep fake.
When you start a sentence with as a women I instantly hate you
The changes in the level of consciousness is Maeve and Dolores are due to an update, no? They call it reveries, I think.
8:55 nice Silurian cameo
Oh thank god I wasn't the only one that didn't like that convoluted nolan esque twist with the man in black and william. In my mind it doesn't really add anything through its non linearity. I agree with some of your points but not others. The show is a technical achievement with a resounding score, beautiful cinematography and some really great sets and locations that contrast well with each other. The themes are interesting and well explored for the most part but can sometimes, as you mentioned, be delivered with to much tell and not enough show with over indulgent monolouges and too much dialogue in some scenarios. To me the main controlling idea is whether challenging the notion of human beings as special beings or as the germans call 'sonderweg', a special path, in which humans are the controller of their own destinies. This is what is demonstrated and exemplified through biblical overtones (Ford= God, Ed Harris= Devil) throughout the show with different characters' conflicts revolving around whether or not their actions are preordained or are real choices. Some of the characters are perhaps not as well utilized as they should be and Nolan tries too hard to try and trick the audience but given the fun and expansive nature of the premise, the show I think still serves to be interesting even if it sacrifices good character writing in the process. I also think most of the acting is quite good. Hopkins is exceptional and Ed Harris does a great job as well and the other actors are decent and get the job done. For me Westworld falls at an above average televsion show, there are some issues but there's enough interesting stuff going on in terms of it as a text: both the narrative and the technical aspects. If you want something truly extraodinary The Wire, Sopranos and Breaking Bad as well as Deadwood are your best bets.
nah m8 u wronk
that end bit about the second season at the end
wow this video aged well
I love the “Kids with Guns” instrumental at the start!
That guy in the beginning with his gut jiggling in the belly shirt was super disturbing.
Smooth Steve that’s nit of pix
Vertigo Gnome Then...mission accomplished? 😱😂 I'm new to nitpix so thanks for the insight. I like it so far and agreed with every word spoken in regard to Westworld.
That intro made me moist. The way you recited your poetry was stunning. Then to top it off with the Vikings bit was true art. Thank you for that. I suppose I should mention it was a well thought out review. I know you’ll probably get a lot of hate for this review. People are always going to defend what they love. But I hope those who love this show can at least appreciate the effort put into this review. And remember, it is just an opinion.
No. I shall slay this beast by the name of 'NitPix' for daring to criticize this masterpiece. I have lost all respect for this guy. Selling out, wearing ill-fitting clothing, insulting Westworld, it's simply unbearable! I cannot stand this for any longer!
I'm loving this channel more and more with every video.
This is so cathartic as i thought i was the only bloke who didn't really like the show as it moved on and not excited for the second season.
almost every "problem" you point out is "fixed" in season 2. you're missing the point though, it's not meant to be thought of as individual seasons like most shows, it's meant to be one continuous story. but it's not like they can make a 30 episode season so they have to break it up into individual seasons. it's like if you read half of a book and said, "this sucks because it doesn't resolve any of the conflicts or character arcs", you have to keep reading. or watching in this case.
Why on earth are you talking about character developement. That was just s1. And season 1 was just a Set up for everything. And i loved it
And...and...and...and
I can't decipher that strange post of yours. Seems like there's a lot missing you perhaps should have said in order to make your point. It's clear however you either didn't watch this video or simply didn't understand him.
And I loved it (sarcastic quip)
Nitpix gonna SLAM this show in a slam poem!!!
that Radiohead at the end is nice
OMG, man, is that KHRUANGBIN in the background music?
can't think of a single criticism i agree with
that's called being a fanatic (or a child)
Loved that intro.
The shows problem isn't so much the execution or the integration of non linear stories coexisting, but one out of ambition.
Here is a list of all the themes of the show:
1) How humans treat animals
2) How immoral corporate leaders are
3) Companies selling user data for profit
4) How people are told their role in life
5) People writing their own self narratives
6) People feeling powerless in life
7) People with delusions of grandeur
8) People dealing with tragedy and grief
9) What differs humans from AI
10) People justifying their immoral actions
And more! In just several episodes. Plus other shows tackle some of these themes like Battlestar Galactica, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Wire, etc...
It's fine if people don't like the show. As with any show, people either feel and attachment or they don't. But I don't think "boring" or "bad" are appropriate descriptors.
0:17 when a critic tries to be funny
Boy are you in for a huge disappointment (probably know by now). Season 2 makes Season 1 appear like a well-written novel. And throughout you keep hoping the end will redeem it all and explain everything only to be hugely disappointed. No season 3 for me that's for sure. What a mess and nobody to care about.
I want to like westworld but it’s extremely pretentious
The show breaks the rule “show dont tell”
They constantly give exposition and never show the themes in action
Its hard to follow because the exposition talks are so drawn out and boring
The show don't tell rule is such bullshit you literally can't have a comprehensiable story without exposition to explain certain plot points, and the way Westworld did it felt naturally intervown into the story if you low attention span that's not an issue of the show.
I can't wait to see your review of season 2.
I thought the music was alright, until they replayed "paint it black" the 30th time in slightly altered fashion.
Okay. Normally, I'm okay with your criticisms but I like Westworld. It is one of the best show on cable television that isn't Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead. The first season was just pretty much a build-up to the Host uprising and to focus on the real protagonists of the show. And if I had to root for anyone, it would have to be Maeve. She looked like she reached sentient consciousness without being coerced with some great hope of a maze or something dogmatic like that.
I disagree
I feel like this channel gets weirder every video and I'm absolutely loving it