Don’t make this mistake on your next PEX install
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In general, I find warranties worthless. They usually do not cover labor or consequential damages and I find it frequently costs more to make a warranty claim than to just fix the problem.
Reality
I'd challenge anyone to find me a warranty that isn't full of clauses that allow the manufacturer to drop it for whatever. Worst case they'd send out an adjuster who would find that your hot pex was 1/4" too close to your cold pex for 3" on an 80ft run and say that's why the failure happened.
Getting a warranty on a small piece of a huge system is impossible.
Bingo !
Yep. Pex warranties are 99% worthless. Are they going to pay for a $20,000 water damage job? Or buy you a $25 roll of pex? LOL
There were class action suits against Uponor and Nibco, but they have both been settled.
Warranty is only as good as the guy standing behind the counter.
Same here Matt, Happy 50th Birthday also. I will be hitting that monument in April of 2023. As a small contractor in Houston area, I've been able to implement the content like this one on your channel to many time to count.👊Thanks and keep more coming!
Happy Birthday Matt, all the cool kids are 50(like myself lol) As a DIY guy that likes to do the very best job at everything I can, I look to your videos. They are very educational, and all the attention to details help quite a bit with jobs I may not have felt comfortable with before. Thanks again
Happy big 5-0! Thanks for all your help and expertise!
Failed to mention the ID is much greater with Uponor system. More flow!
Trying to get Uponor to honor their warranty is an act of congress even when it is proven their pipe failed. My father n law got 2 houses flooded where Uponor failed nowhere near fittings ( and that is the pipe even being stored properly before installation) and it took forever for Uponor to own up to it. That is why it does not go into my jobs
I guess all the guys jumping on PEX jumped the gun
I’ve literally never seen that from uponor and somehow your father in law had it happen in two houses? Something fishy going on there.
Can you provide more detail?
I have only seen, in person, the A used on a few of the higher ends jobs and the fittings worry me. I don't trust the memory of plastic, over metal to crimp the connection. It's interesting that your failure was inline. Can you tell us more about where/why it failed? On a bend? Any blemishes pre failure? Thanks
@@aldoogie824 Not sure on the detail all I know that the pipe split in the middle no where near fittings. But I have also read that is the reason why you cannot purchase A in colored pipe only white pipe with the colored writing. Type pex pipe class action lawsuit and it will tell you more.
I too have used both types of piping for repairs, remodels, and new construction. I remain a user of Uponor BUT, I have a story about their 25 year warranty. In my own home which contains almost two MILES (I built way too large of a home) of radiant Hepex in joist staple up, and under concrete scenarios, I had a failure in the piping after ten years. I'm not talking about drinking water piping, but the cross linked oxygen barrier piping for space heating. Uponor took the piece of piping (about 18" long) and after dragging their feet for over a month they finally responded. They said I must have installed it too close to a heat source causing it to fail. The only heat source was the piping itself that was heating the space. This was in a heated garage, in the ceiling, with blown-in insulation to keep the heat rising to the floor above. I documented the piping before removal, after removal, and the surrounding space of ruined drywall showing the fluorescent lighting a minimum of ten feet away. I had to go thru my wholesaler, who contacted the rep, who contacted the factory. After repeated attempts to show them no fault of mine existed in the install, they stood by their denial of responsibility. I then asked for my property to be returned, for outside testing. And they had 'lost' it. Don't think I wasn't very pissed off. I had massive drywall repairs and mold started to grow as I waited for insurance permission to begin repairs. Turns out my insurance premium was very high on a $1M+ home so I had selected a $5K deductible plan to help on premiums. Screwed myself on that one. I still use their products but with a bitter taste in my mouth. I run a 20 plumber operation and this is my first Uponor failure. And it was on my own home!
Out of sheer principle I would never install a single Uponor product again. Their company doesn't stand by their products so by using them you are not only putting your customers at jeopardy but financially rewarding a garbage company with shady practices ("losing" the proof their product failed). I'd save the receipts and once a year send them a copy of all the money they lost due to their failure. I'm angry for you. You literally had every amount of proof imaginable and they still refused to cover it. You have far more weight behind your decision with 20 plumbers, but as a homeowner who eventually plans to upgrade to PEX from CPVC your comment alone makes me steer clear of Uponor altogether.
Hell if you have proof of the piece you sent them I'd contact an attorney. It will probably cost more in the long run, but again principle holding these companies accountable.
This is a nicely done, well written description of an appalling experience. It sounds like one that is tailor made for one of those consumer advocate reports done by television stations. I say that because I have been following the financial woes of a travel agency that have prompted some 800 complaints to the Massachusetts attorney general. In at least a few cases people who have been able to get their trip deposits refunded when they went to a consumer advocate. My sense is that big companies will ignore complaints like yours until they face public exposure of the issue - and then they pay up so as to give the impression, however false, that they honor warranties. If Uponor won’t honor a warranty for someone like you, who WILL they treat properly? I am no professional but have done lots of plumbing, and have been toying with the idea of replacing the more than 30-year-old soldered copper in my vacation home. Not a drip of a failure in that time, except the bad freeze that broke the lines in 11 places 20 years ago when the basement, now insulated and heated, was exposed. Fixed ‘em all myself, and not a leak since then. Maybe I will leave it as is.
Every type of extruded plastic pipe has experienced a bad batch that splits longitudinally. Pipe companies have been bankrupted by warranty claims for that. Occasionally the bad batch was huge. Usually the weak seam lasts several years then come the random breaks & leaks, seldom is the failure immediate. It's a known risk of using anybody's plastic pipe. Warranty service is a real issue. I did an underground job, 1.5 miles off pipe, that experienced seam leaks starting maybe 8 years after initial pressurization and continuing. Pipe co was out of business thru mergers. Only recourse was insurance.
Guys they investigated themselves and found absolutely no fault of their own.
Losing the pipe, however, was very telling. If they lost it, then there is absolutely no way they could deny you warranty because that is basically destroying the evidence. If you can't find it, you have to pay up. As long as you had the documentation that they did receive the failed product (tracked shipping), they either have to prove why they were not at fault, or accept fault. If they lost what you sent them, then their investigation means nothing because there is no longer a means to verify the results of their findings. Just as they wouldn't take your word about their products failure without testing the failed product themselves, you shouldn't have accepted the results of their investigation without that same failed product that is tied to their claim denial. Who's to say they aren't denying your claim based on an investigation of someone else's failed product? Losing it automatically nullifies everything they can possibly deny your claim for, this wouldn't be difficult to stand your ground on, as long as you are willing to fight them. Which absolutely is impossible with other parties doing the communication for you.
He can't plumb he can't fit but the porta potty man sure knows his chit
As a professional (carpenter) I fully agree with this. As a DIYer (my own plumbing bought through big box stores) I feel attacked. I'm limited to the pex, fittings, crimp rings, crimp tool, and gauge offered in stores. So far I haven't flooded my house and have had better results than when I tried burning my house down sweating copper. But then again I am getting what I didn't pay for by doing it myself. And they sell flex seal!
Thanks for the valuable information! It also shows the challenge in keeping up with all these loopholes for individual DIYers. Thank you!
Haha, I just got it, it's spam,lol
Wow, I am so grateful you guys were willing to share you knowledge and experience
Durability is important, thanks for sharing this video with us.
Also, make sure to use the proper PEX for heating vs. potable water.
Happy 50th Matt!
Great point! Think of it as a PEX system!
Thanks JW, it doesn't matter how good the warranty is if they're not going to honor it
I was introduced to Aquapex in 1992 when I was working for Centex Homes. I was a DP in a West Coast Division. Centex inked a deal with Aquapex in 1994 and I believe they were the first national home builder to use this type of product. Its installed in every home that I own. One think you will notice going from copper to Pex is how quiet the Pex is.
You failed to mentioned one of the main differences between A and B. You have yo up size B due to the fact that the fittings restrict the flow. Major consideration when sizing a system.
Merflex Pex C is F1960 approved
Zurn Pex B is F1960 approved
Silverline Sil-O-Pex Pex B is F1960 approved
All 3 perform way better during freezing conditions than Pex A as it expands to the point of rupturing while the first 3 have barely started to expand....
Bingo!
Bought the milwaukee expansion tool. Quickly became one of my fav tools.
It’s so satisfying
I personally use Pex-A with Pex-B crimp fittings in my home. I live in the north-east, and pipes freeze usually every damn year. Pex-A has that awesome expansion and pressure retention. I use pex-b fittings for ease of repairs if needed. Simple tool that cuts the crimps off and can reuse the brass fittings, etc. Obviously, if I were a contractor and I did this every day, I would use a complete system as intended for maximum warranty.
I found you from "off the ranch" years ago, I still watch because you have useful products for real life.
....and I found Matt Caraker and Off the Ranch by watching Matt Risinger. A good thing!
Matt, Have you put out any info on the failing Uponor blue and red Pex? I see that is what was used throughout your house. Sample shown here is the only now available clear. Multiple homes are being repiped due to failures. You should be providing info on these failing products you have been pushing.
This sounds like it is just waiting for a challenge to the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. If the mfg can’t prove the failure was caused by the fittings they are on the hook for the full warranty.
I’m sooooo happy in Canada we have The Canadian Standards Association!! Just look up the CSA number and see if it jives with the other systems. That’s what I was taught in trade school. You’re not going to get literally anywhere demanding anything from your supplier. You get what the distributor can get its hands on.
Company I used to work for did a lot of the electrical work at their plants here in MN. The Master Electrician of Upornor actually taught my 3rd year classes. They can’t produce their product fast enough and the extruder lines are intense, the pipe goes through a phase where they have to put protection around it because it can blind you. It’s almost too easy to install.
A good analogy for the Warranty conversation also relates to Electrical. In commercial and industrial applications, you must be cautious about how you install different products. They will only retain their UL rating if they installed with products that are tested as a group. Examples are Motor starters and overloads.
Happy Birthday, Matt! Love you, brother!
This was a great video. I was honestly expecting a bash on Pex B video. when I read the title. but it was very informative about warranty for manufacturers.
I never would have thought of this, thank you for the information!
Question here: The whole warranty talk is likely a warranty on the materials, right? Not a warranty of your home's plumbing where they'd pay a contractor to come re-plumb your house? IF that's correct, then the "warranty" is all but useless. Pex costs roughly 35 cents a foot. It costs nothing. Virtually ALL the cost is in labor. So who cares if the warranty is a day, a decade, or a million years? It's likely not even worth filling out when you can go to HD and buy a 100 foot roll of PexA for 35 bucks.
I had a plumber come out and quote me 10k to re-plumb my house. I replumbed it with Pex-A for under $500 in materials (the Milwaukee fuel tool was an additonal $550 on sale, but resold it for a tiny loss after the job). So roughly 95% of the cost is labor. Unless labor is covered then the warranty is not worth talking about.
Thank you for the heads up guys. That was great information to know. : )
I'd like to see some actual price comparisons. There is a similar sort of issue in the laser printer industry, where "genuine HP" toner (dry ink) can cost roughly 4x the cost of third-party toner.
I looked at a house being built (framing stage) about 1/4 mile from ocean. I was bidding on plumbing a mansion about 2 lots away and wanted to see what locals were using. (Laguna Beach, Ca.) Any and all metals exposed to the air, including the crimp rings were beginning to show rust. Yikes!
I like Uponor plastic expansion ring systems. All plastic, keep it away from radiant heat and sunlight. I've installed 100's of miles of this.
I have a pool house out back of my house and in 2018 I purposely ran about 10 feet of hot & cold Uponor Pex that gets about 5-6 hours of direct SoCalif sunlight a day. About 2 weeks ago I checked on it by pushing it around, hitting it with a grade stake & such...seems fine. Eventually I'll replace it with copper, just wanted to experiment cuz I can. Thanks!
Happy birthday Mr. Risinger wish u many many more.
Some houses in my neighborhood built in the early 2000s were piped with PEX-C and have chronic leaks and many had to have a whole house re-pipe. After finding out about it I checked and luckily our house was pipe with PEX-A.
Sounds more like the early 1990s and being piped with polybutylene.
@@Sylvan_dB I have a copy of the plat for the subdivision which was approved in 2000. My house was built in 2004. From what I understand there was a lawsuit and it ended up being part of a class action suit. I think there are a few homes that have had issues later on and the owner missed out on the lawsuit settlement period.
Matt, Eric, thanks for this short video. Lot's of good info here for us DIYers. I've installed a fair amount of pex in my rental homes and wonder what the failure rate is on these pex systems. I've haven't had a problem over the 10 years of so that I've used pex. I'd like to hear about failures that others have experienced. Is failure most common at the fittings? How about burst pipe? Thanks guys.
Search 'uponor recall 2020'
I totally forgot about this issue with warranty change. Thanks for reminder
I'm not a plumber, but have done a LOT of plumbing in the last 30 years that involved maintenance or building engineering along with maintaining 3 houses.
In my area at the box stores I don't see the same fitting or crimp rings.(it may be that I'm not going to an actual plumbing supply)
I never use plastic elbows, couplers or "t's". they are a bronze color or material.(and I buy contractor packs usually 10-25 pieces)
The crimp rings I see and use are also different. they are black oxidized or copper crimp rings.
Not sure on this but the crimp tool may be different as well.
I also echo that I would just fix any problem as the big companies have way more money to prove fault on my part or find some loophole. And...
It's just quicker to get it done than wait on a bunch of suit and ties to make a decision.
thanks for the video and the warranty FPN/fine print note.
25 yrs, 10yrs or 1yr.
What would be nice is to see part producers meet the warranties with "meet or exceed" ratings of their parts. This way if substitutions are to be made there is less likely of a chance to create issues. Further it would create a stability in a higher standards in a market place creating healthy competition which would drive down costs for the consumer, encourage brand loyalty and make the cheap crap even less desirable which is a positive IMO. Having a handful of competitive, quality and interchangeable options would be good for everyone except the hacks. Increasing the standards all around is a good thing in the long and short run, making it competitive is key. :)
Yes, that would be great, but pushing an industry into adopting standards usually only works when done so via government regulations. And we all know we can't be having government regulations that benefit everyone getting in the way of muh freedom.
@@Aethid Yeah we don't need the government involved that's for sure. :)
I agree, If I buy a manufacture other than the brand pipe I always get brass or stainless steel fittings.
FYI: There are a few brands that do manufacture PEX B that's rated for expansion. PEX B is also less susceptible to bursting and degradation from chemicals/minerals in the water (like chlorine). I've seen videos of PEX A failures due to the chlorine/chloramine.
From what I've seen it's mostly their color piping and there's a huge lawsuit against them as well
Great video, Matt!
People underestimate expansion, especially where I am at Minnesota... Pex A all day baby!
Matt, happy birthday, is there a video on what is the best choice for a homeowner to use for underground cold water to faucets around one's property from the meter. Pex (A or B), hdpe poly pipe, pvc. Looking for a advantages and disadvantages of each and associated ballpark cost?
I have been using pex b for many years, only brass fittings. All faucets have such small water ways the cross sectional restriction is negligible. That being said, if I do a large house, I just use 1" trunks. As a service plumber I only do rehabs and recipes on old houses. Sometimes the areas I have to make connections in is ridiculously tight and the expansion tools would not fit or getting the fitting together would be very difficult if not impossible.
That's the best way to do it, I always run a 1" feed to the water heater, has to be a really high fixture count for me to run 1" trunks on my Hot.... You brought up re-pipes, I promise you that you'll never hear anyone bragging about re-piping a house with ProPex because the whole expansion method is much slower and requires way more room to work with it....
The plumbers claiming restriction have bought into the uponor marketing materials hook line and sinker. The small area of restriction is negligible provided you have a small number of fittings. The bigger issue with pex is the diameter being smaller which is why you should size up in certain scenarios. The expansion fittings are actually easier in a tight space because you can expand the pipe out of place and then place the fittings in where you are installing with no tools whatsoever. The brass or poly fittings with crimps or clamps are proven and for install speed and efficiency nothing beats pexpress, the expansion tool is MUCH slower.
@@shaunbava1801 expansion fittings take up twice as much room as the standard insert fittings... My biggest issue with F1960 is that the pipe is being thinned similar to flaring and/or swedging copper; where the pex leaves the fitting will be prone for problems as the pipe is thinner and it's in constant constriction
Like always. Great informative video.
Have a Happy Birthday Matt!!!
A buddy of mine had Viega failure in his 2014 built house. Started getting pinholes in his hot water supply lines. 2 last year, then 6 more this year. Random Places around the house. All on the hot water lines. After a few months of back and forth, Viega agreed to pay for a re-pipe.
Did they pay for the damage and repair to drywall, painting, etc. from their product's failure? Or just for the price of new pipe and fittings?
That's crazy . I got a customer with Uponor that's failing on the hot side ,probably 8' from the water heater. Super odd .
Sioux Chief makes a pex-b pipe that is both F1807 and F1960 certified and warrantied. Not all companies specify that the pipe & fitting warranty are different depending on manufacturer. Some are strictly rating-based warranty based on what type certified fitting you use. Sioux Chief specifically warranties their pipe & fitting for 25 years regardless if you use their fittings/pipe or not.
Warranties are symbolic for most installers. No homeowner will want their failed piping to be replaced with the new improved version of the failed piping that came out, Warranties don't cover labor costs. Homeowner will simply have it redone another way and their insurance will pay for it.
I thought you both would talk about the different types of pex *within* A & B, because there are definitely different sub-classes. Even beyond this, there are situations where even if you don't have expansion fittings, the qualities of Pex A may be preferred to Pex B since A can be both expanded or crimped.
Me, too. I came to the video wanting to know which pex for which job.
Never cheap out on anything that goes in your walls.
If you do, and it fails, there goes all your "cost savings".
Happy Birthday Matt!🥳🥳
Replumbed the whole house with pex-b when I did a gut kitchen remodel 6 years ago. I built a manifold and did home runs to it from every fixture. I used sharkbite connectors. Best decision I’ve ever made.
Hopefully, you used the crimp and not the push-on connectors?
@Steve M I used sharkbite connectors. Not one issue in 7 years.
LOL Goober. Thanks for the video, I'm looking to try PexB in my new addition.
Matt, love your videos. I know pex a is extremely popular, due to its many properties & expansion fittings. However I have seen many failures of the pipe watching utube videos & even some comments from your watchers. Utuber Joe Ludlow is a plumber/ repiper & worth watching regarding pex. Apparently Zurn pex b is f1960 rated with expansion fittings. I compared the fittings of pex a Uppnor vereses Zurn pex b & the Zurn appears to be a heavier fitting with a minimal reduction of i.d. . I purchased the Zurn expansion heads for my dewalt expansion tool & it appears to spread the expansion area better. As an excellent builder, I would love to see you research & address expansion pex b as an alternative. " let's get going"
I too have used Pex B with expansion fittings and have experienced no problems to date. It was only after the Zurn rep approached me and explained that Zurn was rated for expansion. I have used other Pex B recently to see if it was compatible and it seems to be so. To note I used it on my own personal projects, I wouldn't do so on a project for a client/customer just for the liability risk. Licensed Plumbing Contractor for 32 years.
Matt..............Happy Birthday!! The subject matter in this video I completely support 110% !
5:10 Some pex manufacturers actually have F1960 approved (cold expansion) Pex B pipe. Sioux Chief is one of them.
As well as zurn
Sioux Chief also provides a 25 year warranty on any product of theirs with any combinations of pipe/fitting. Using another companies fitting/pipe with a Sioux Chief product does not change the warranty.
Their warranty is certification focused, not brand focused.
Glad to see someone else knows this the Sioux Chief stuff is great, but hard to find I order mine on line from pex universe.
@@joer9276 Sioux Chief is sold at Menards. Fittings are limited, but enough to do most jobs.
I am fine with Pex for adding something later on since feeding copper through existing walls isn’t always possible. But in general, I am old school. I like sweated copper. I am fine with pro-press fittings (don’t worry, the o ring in pro-press is just a backup, the copper to stopper pressure can seal the connection).
Awesome thanks so much for sharing this information
My plumber said to never use sharkbite on buried pex (underground buried). He says they corrode in 3-4 years and fail. I’m guessing the acidic soil here in GA eats through the brass in the sharkbite fittings.
Above ground? Good to go!
Very informative thanks
Everything you aid is very true!!!! Biggest problem is manufactures treat the consumer the same way as HP first you had to use their cartridges because of "quality" but they want $60 for a $10 cartridge!!! Greed is ALWAYS part of the puzzle. Not HP makes printers that have a code that do not allow the machine to operate with other cartridges AND it emails HP that the warranty has just been voided!!! All the while HP makes the WORST cartridges for their printer of any manufacture. Manufactures that force the use of their fittings for profits first NOT quality so be careful. When you build high end with unlimited budgets you loose site of the real world often. When a PEX or other fitting costs 6 to 10 times what others and it is because of the "Warranty system" read the fine print. The consumer wants the system to replace everything damaged if the system fails. What does the warranty cover..... The parts and replacement of the parts. Only on rare occasion does the warranty repair ALL damage from a failed fitting so the warranty is really just a smoke screen to a false reality.
This is pexciting.
🤪
I laughed so hard I strained a pextorial muscle.
What do you expex?
I expexed better...😉
Delete this.
Sure is good info about the warranties! Thanks. What about if a sharkbite fitting is used? Is there any warranty, the same as if using unlabeled but ordinary fittings?
A GOOD PLUMBER NEVER USES SHARKBITE FITTINGS EXCEPT FOR A TEMPORARY SITUATION
On the same note, there have been documented cases where the manufacturer denied claims because it was not installed by a certified licensed plumber for that product. Please keep in mind these are licensed plumbers but not certified for that product. There was a huge case a few years ago in Seattle Washington where the product started to fail on a new 25-story Condo in downtown. The piping itself was failing and the manufacturer took no responsibility. It was huge project to replace all the piping.
This was great information.
What about the class action lawsuits against Upinor?
I install nothing but Uponor(Wirsbo). Love their stuff.
that brand has a poor record though?
@@atodaso1668 Says who? It’s been around for over 40 years, under the old Wirsbo branding, in Europe. It’s been the top selling plumbing tubing in EU for most of that time and it’s extraordinarily reliable.
The only issue known for Uponor was several years ago they added a dye in manufacturing to create blue & red tubing. My understanding is this was done only for NA market as specific request by their distribution team. The dye compromised the molecular stability and there were failures in pipes used in high Cl content water systems.
We personally never used nor saw the coloured Uponor, my local supplier always had the original opaque version and my plumbers never demanded the coloured version. Why would any builder, plumber or distributor want to stock multiple colors of same pipe unless required? Made no sense. Regardless, we’ve used a lot of Uponor, as well as Rehau oxy-barrier fwiw, never had an issue. Great stuff 👍
When repairs or modifications are made later it seems like you could crimp pex B but you shouldn’t expand pex A so it seems like a repair plumber would be better suited to use crimp type fittings. Right?
I just did a job were we replaced all the water supply in the crawl space at a friend's place. They had a bunch of leaks due to Nibco pipe. There is a very large class action law suit because of Nibco pipe and fittings.I put pex valves in so if more leaks happen in the house we can cut off water to that area. Then we will address pipe in the walls.
very important video, many thanks
Great video. One question though. Is there a difference in durability between the two brands? ie: Do they both hold up if the pipe were to freeze?
I have bout and rehabbed a ton of frozen houses, I have seen Pex A rupture in freeze situations in at least 3 of the house I have done, I have never seen PEX C or PEX B rupture, Im a big fan of Nibco PEX C, its not as flexible as A, but it is a lot tougher, especially in a repipe situation, where abrasion can be a factor through plaster, or other materials, that can easily damage the much softer PEX A
I redid all the plumbing in my house with Pex-A. It is so easy to use, I'm not even sure if you could do it wrong. Awesome stuff
careful what you say, I'm sure someone has figured out how to use it wrong.
@@FROG2000 very true
Redoing everything in Sioux Chief PEX-A as we speak. Make sure the expansion head rotates half(ish) a petal angle each time for good expansion, make sure to insert the fitting all the way to the stop nubs, and don't give it full pressure for a few hours before the plastic relaxes back to seal fully. But yeah, easiest thing in the world. It's just drinking straws and rubber bands.
@@frederf3227 totally agree. The things you mentioned are important from what I've read.
@@frederf3227
No experience here, and needing to do my entire house. Can you explain tome what you mean by "expansion head rotates half(ish) a peta angle"? I'm pretty ignorant about the lingo. What specifically is the "expansion head"? Is that just whatever end of the tubing you decide to expand?
Also, what do you mean by "petal" and "petal angle"? I"m totally clueless on that one.
Umm, you do realize that Zurn Pex B uses cold expansion fittings just like Uponor Pex A. Also, the expander tool for Zurn Pex B uses an expansion head design that puts much less stress on the Pex pipe when expanding it out. However, if you really want to, you can use the Uponor Pex A expander tool on Zurn Pex B pipe as well.
We’ve used Zurn backflow valves & pressure regulators exclusively over the years, never had an issue. When our local rep showed up w/Zurn expansion Pex, I thought it was a joke. It’s still as stiff as all PexB. The biggest advantage of PexA isn’t the ease of fittings, it’s the kink-free flexibility allowing us to eliminate in-line fittings until the circuit termination at a valve.
Then there’s the issue of the Zurn Pex class action settlement due to defective fittings.
We’ve used Uponor expansion fittings on last 11 builds, never had an issue. We of course never used the coloured Uponor, which had issues. We also use Rehau oxygen barrier in our hydronic systems, also never had an issue.
If I agreed to switch to Zurn Pex, they were offering me a very generous discount, I think I’d have my plumbers walking off job 🤣. The added labor costs alone of dealing with that stiff plastic feeding through stud bays is not worth the material cost savings, let alone the requirement of elbow fittings at most turns leading to more labor and material costs as well as in-wall failure point potential. Zurn Pex is a very hard no for us.
Happy Birthday, Matt! Thanks for your great content.
Thanks Jeff!
i have used Uponor pipe with crimp fittings for 28 years on about 7 million ft of pipe, not a single crimp failure. Some fittings have failed, but not at the crimp connection.
It gets even more confusing when some types of PEX-b can be expanded, like Zurn.
True....
Thank you for recording and posting this very important and confusing to the layperson information. I just want water! My goodness!
Matt, I think you missed a LOT of other technicals between type A and type B that important to consider such as psi and burst ratings, chemical resistance, and flexibility/kink issues.
I agree, and no mention of flow rates. Upnor has a much higher flow rate than Pex. Something like 30 % to 40% because the fittings have smaller I.D. compared to the main line causing restriction.
When a plumbing is working the first year it will allmost work forever. The problem with leakages (the only thing of concern) allways starts by manipulating the plumbings or freezings. Manipulating includes nailing, drilling, applying forces (e.g. strechting or kinking) adding/removing parts to/off the plumbing . Over time the valves/taps are the matters of concern.
And ... plumbing is not the last job at home building. After the plumber has done its work there comes the electrician and after that dry-walling, cabinet installations and so on. Here some additional blocking, there some minor relocating of sinks. All done after plumbings inspection. You have to keep an eye to all of this.
Last but not least: The maintanance allways has to deal with "out of sight out of your mind". After 5 years nobody even knows the layout anymore what's behind the walls.
I have pex b with expansion fitting in the house from 4 years ago and absolutely no issues. Also no mention of alupex?
Thanks for this video Matt. I’ll be very diligent about my plumbing in my home remodel/addition to be sure I buy ALL of the same brand. This is being done to outlive me, so I want the best warranty possible.
So you have a life expectancy of less than 25 years?
good luck claiming any of the warranty work if you are not a qualified installer.
Warranties for plumbing fittings & tubing is very hard to file a claim. Just get good home insurance and hire a reputable plumber if you can’t do it yourself.
@@masejames4906 so what you're saying is don't go buying into this 25 year warranty thing just because of the warranty
It is really hard to know how durable a product is going to be. The warranty timeframe is one way of comparing products and brands. So if you are building a 100 year house using a product with a 25 year warranty is probably going to be better than the one with the 10 year warranty.
Hope so, since it was in my house when I moved in. All white in my last house, and current house.
I am a novice and i live in an old house.
I want to update my plumbing water lines and would like to know if PEX is safe? The water sits in the lines until used especially the hot water; is there any transfer of chemicals from the PEX? And what about mild growth in cold water lines??
I understand copper is the healthiest but so cost prohibitive, I am looking for healthy/safe alternatives. What do you think?? Thanks Matt!
I've for about a year or so using expanding pex for all my jobs but I'm not sure if it was taken care of yet but over some time ago there was a lawsuit regarding the colors of the expanding PEX due to the warranty issues so I've been using more of the white pex for everything because of the blue and red having issues is that still in play
The fact Uponor no longer offers the red and blue - certainly must mean something. This is not a problem with the non Uponor colored PEX.
I wonder how often people make warranty claims on PEX. I guess it could come in handle if your whole PEX install is done with faulty pipe. If you have one fitting fail, doing a claim on a $5 fitting seems like a pain. I haven't read through the warranties but I'm guessing they don't pay for damage, is that correct?
I'll tell you my thought process: f*** pipe broke, where's the valve, alright let's dry this out, time to go to home depot... it's not let me call up a random company and argue with them over the phone and then try to send proof and wait around for weeks
Was thinking exactly what you just said .!
Great info
I’ve used cinch clamps on PEX A pipe.
Is that a catastrophic failure?
You know your plumber is legit when he has a pipe wrench tattooed on his forearm !
The only time I use a pipe wrench is for taking old steel pipe apart and it's usaully so corroded it has to be cut apart.
michaelschildt6076
Haha, I didn't even notice that that's hysterical.
My house is all copper. When I finished my basement I choose copper for the bathroom it was a pain with around 75 Solder joints but I’m happy with It. But I get installing pex as a contractor.
What kind of pex and fittings would you use I want the best I am not cheap building a house love your channel
Really flexing your Pex there with your intro, Matt.
Hey Matt, didn't you plumb your new house (in 2020) with the Uponor that got recalled? The Red and Blue stuff? Since you fully documented the construction of that house, how do you think this impacts the value of your home at this point?
My Guess
He replaced it but because it was a paid sponsor, he didn’t do a video about replacing it
Enjoyed the information presented here. I watch a lot of your videos. I am thinking of building a passive home myself and am all ways looking for new ideas. Have you heard of SABS (Saed Architectural Building System). They are in Arizona and use all foam construction with a proprietary mortar covering. It has great R values and seems to be very much a DIY system. I would love to see you do a video/comparison on SABS vs ICF. Please let me know what you think. I found it on TH-cam myself.
Matt i'd really love to see a video on Zurns expandable Pex-B. People have always thought of A = expandable, B = crimp/clamp, but some of these new products appear to further conflate common understanding of these products. How can a B pipe be expanded if it doesn't have memory? Are these expandable B systems the best of both worlds as I've read B pipe is more durable and leeches less?
Silverline Sil-O-Pex is also F1960 cold expansion rated
As is Mercury Plastic's Merflex Pex C
The Merflex is tough to beat, they also make the grey pex toilet and faucet supply lines..
Look for F1960
Matt; in my region I’ve had difficulty finding uponor pex and fittings. Not sure why, seems like local builders may not use their system. I have a propex tool and want to redo my water lines. Is this a common issue that certain areas have limited availability of one system or the other?
I have the same problem finding pex a where I live. I just order on line and is delivered in a few days.
Hey Matt I’m seeing videos about pex failing most show uponor having build up and cracking on the inside ! Can you look into this and post an update about it ! One is the post from - Integrity repipe inc ?
I’ve been using Apollo brand pex a system. Any thoughts? I’ve had no issues in multiple re-pipes over 3 years now.
ONE PLUMBER ADVISED ME NOT TO USED CZ IT BRAKES??
Listening/watching this, it seems to me like, during the Pandemic and/or other such shortages, Upanor sounds like the better system overall, since while you're still getting a lower warranty by mixing and matching, it's still 10 years in length, versus just one for Viego. Obviously, using the full system from the manufacturer would be better, but it's sounding like if you do have to mix, use Upanor, for the longer warranty under the circumstances.
They find ways to blame installers at fault, so what is warranty for? Like other said home owners will pay home insurance and it will take care of you when thing happens, I don’t use pipe that known to splits, period!
I put a note on my plumbing plans that says all the pipes on the plan have been sized using the Uponor manual and substituting any other tubing voids the plumbing plan.
The notes also say that the entire water service supply system must be made of Uponor tubing and fittings, and everything must be installed per all the manufacturer's specifications.
Folks like me who design plumbing systems must be very specific on the plans to protect both our clients, and ourselves.
Can I use PEX tubing for sprinkler systems where the tubing and fittings are buried? Is one better than the other? I am guessing the metal rings will corrode and give out...
Which pex would you use for buried water lines with chlorinated water?
there is supposed to be a class action lawsuit right now against uponor brand pex pipe that is corroded from the inside from chloramines. this guy says zern pex b with expandable fittings is the best for these conditions.
www.youtube.com/@IntegrityRepipeInc
Only Expansion Pex is rated for underground use.