When PEX goes horribly wrong
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- I did an inspection on this house and this is the worst PEX installation I have ever seen. This is to give you an idea of what to look for when you have a plumber installing PEX in your house.
Best tool for installing 1/2"-1" PEX-B: amzn.to/3Ax7t2b
Crimp rings I've used for years: amzn.to/3QWALwe
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First time I did pex work, if a cut wasn't perfect or a crimp wasn't perfect I redid it. It did cost me extra time and money, but helped with peace of mind. I called my plumber friend out to check my work. I was told my pex work was high quality plumber style work. No leaks from the beginning to now which is about 5 years later. That's definitely when I fell in love with pex but also learned to respect the pex. It has it's limitations for sure.
The clamp is a better method vs. the crimp..in my experience..now granted the two jobs I’ve been involved in are only less than two years in service BUT as of yet no leaks..and i know there is no doubt that we indeed did not make perfect cuts and clamps
RESPEX THE PEX
This is why I hate to pay for anything that I can, or should, be able to do myself. I don't know how many times I have had to go back and redo work that a professional has done.
exactly
Agree with you 100%, these bozos and so called "pros" have contaminated this service industry. They have only helped homeowners to be good auto techs, electricians, plumbers, carpenters and now HVAC techs in my case.
So true. Ironically, often they (the city) require you to use licensed workers which cost a lot more , that come with attitude, and often you get very poor results. I’ve concluded, if you want something done right you got to do it yourself. At times, I didn’t want to break my head learning a task so I contracted it out to licensed workers only to have to get poor results then having to learn it myself anyways and then fix the poor job. They just don’t care most of the times. Don’t want to generalize, but sticking to my policy has worked the best for me
"professional"
I'm totally agree with you but even if I now have the knowledge, I don't have the practice and practicing some sensitive tasks like that in my house is not an option.
This was excellent an tutorial and review of shotty work!
Most of the plumbers that I have worked with as it assistant never do the work as the manufacture specifies. Everybody always wants to cut corners and they say the magical words “that should be fine” which always annoys me because I feel there’s too many variables with the word “should”.
The only thing that annoys the hell out of me is that PEX is so much faster than soldering and yet people still can’t take the little time to do it right. All of the new construction materials and tools make the job so much faster, which allows for greater productivity but doesn’t always lead to better craftsmanship. I think that’s just a flaw in human nature trying to get things done as soon as possible and not taking pride in workmanship.
So I oversee a gamut of trades and I have to consistently remind them of manufacturer specs., building codes, aesthetic details, as well as common sense approaches to installation. Contractors need to step away from the mass production model of business and get more hands-on with their subs if we are going to see a change in work quality.
Not a plumber, but this helped me to understand this common mistake someone new might make, thank you.
exactly yes very helpful
Wow you saved me. I went down the basement and checked the start of a project. It was a wake up call. Went down the next day and corrected some sloppy crimps which were all due to the 1/8” distance. I owe you big time.
Glad you were able to correct some things. Good job! And as they say, "Do it once, do it right!"
Thanks for the video! As a DIYer getting ready to tackle my first pex project it gives me much greater confidence knowing what to watch out for in my own work.
Glad it was helpful.
You might want to check out Uponor PEX A also. It's easier to use. Make sure your cuts are straight and hold it to the backing on the fittings until it retracts and clamps the fitting. Very good systems.
Yeah unless it's the very end of the line I don't use crimp fittings anymore. Expansion pex is much better because crimp and clamp fittings restrict flow too much.
This was very informative- easy problems to avoid by a 10 minute video- Great Job!
Thank you, glad it was informative.
Thanks for this. I think before anybody does any Pex crimp work, they should see this video. Your point of how forgiving pex is but then how if it is not done properly can cause "near future" problems, is the well presented message of your video!
Wow, quite an eye-opener. As a home DIYer and trying out the PEX system for a small home project I came upon this video hoping to catch some tips only to see the type of work some 'professional' plumbers do. I'll be sure to comply fully in my project. Thanks for the education.
Your welcome. The different pex systems have their nuances, but reading through manufacturer installation requirements goes a long way in ensuring a solid system. Pex-A or B can be great or terrible depending on who installs them.
God bless and I think you'll enjoy it.
@Phillip Soon You said professionals. That was your mistake. I would called them, so- called professionals.
99% of thos would of out lasted the pipe its self people over think worry to much that said there was 1 or 2 even id not go with
@@jonsworld5307 you mind sharing your business name? Just want to make sure i dont hire you. Thanks
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. My goodness, could you imagine the eventual homeowner having issues down the road. They would have never known there was an issue when they purchased the house. They just expect quality work in an American home.
Yeah, to an untrained homeowner's eyes these fittings would have looked fine. Even the general contractor didn't see anything wrong. It's why a GC needs to understand all of the materials and systems he is putting inside of the house, otherwise he might not be a GC for long.
I spent 5 days in the attic of my rental house a couple years ago replacing galvanized hot water lines from the 70s. A friend, who had been a plumber, told me about PEX. I used only brass fittings and the pinch-type clamps. I've been up there since to check for any leaks and found none. I should note that I live in Southern California so freezing weather is not a problem.
I was unaware of the requirements concerning distance from the nubs but I cut straight and pressed the PEX all the way to the nub before clamping. Fingers crossed.
As my pal told me (I was 70 when I did that work), "Attics are a young man's game"
Didn't California ban PEX (Especially type A which is 4 time worse.) because it leaches toxins into the water?
@@solarsynapse California bans everything. You have to label virtually everything as a carcinogen if its sold there. Even natural toothpaste containing clay that is told there has to be labeled as a carcinogen! hahahah
Yes they are
Really good information, along with clear illustrations. Thanks for sharing. Hard-to-believe this disaster was installed by a so-called professional.
Too hard for me to believe a pro did this. I think he saved money and had his brother-in-law do the work.
I know, right? The plumbers I've used have been great, but I ran into another yahoo like this down in Austin... Scary.
Nice video.
Good to know I (homeowner) did a better job than a "professional" plumber. To beat that, with my first PEX plumbing job.
A lot of times knowledge isn't necessarily the limitation, it's the willingness to take the time required to do things correctly
Great video, it does happen not everyone does a good job. Thanks for exposing the challenges with PEX and things to look out for. Cheers!
Thank you very informative. Wish all contractors and apprentices were like you.
I worked maintenance for a large school district and you wouldn't believe what licensed contractors would get away with. Us maintenance guys would always have to go back and fix it right. That plumbing job looks like elementary kids installed it.
That plumber should be executed
THANK YOU , seen other Videos about Pex but none mention the proper way to crimp , I feel a little better on this lil “honey do” i’m about to tackle, thank you again
Some of those cuts are pretty gnarly too.
I'm no plumber but I know enough to see that they are wrong. Its sad that some people are just that lazy
pure laziness - no pride in the work
@@DosDonts101 Or people like me, who don't know what they're doing and are too poor to pay for a plumber. :)
The previous plumber is the kind of person that would get a pat on the back for getting the job done quicker from many of the “professionals” I have worked with
Yes, it's unfortunate.
good job,learned a lot ,I just used pex for first time,using the 1/8 spacing ,and crimp it cinch rings ,some copper,and type k in our slab which has a pvc blue jacket,somebody really hacked that job,good info on tub spout,I thought copper was required because of its larger inner diameter,didnt realize it may back up into shower head,keep doin videos
Yep, the ID is why you can't use 1/2" pex, though it obviously doesn't stop everyone...
So glad I found this before I started using PEX. Thank you!
I bought some of those plastic fittings for exposed pex lines in a basement. Crimped a plastic tee and later pushed the line up to fasten. The TEE BROKE IN TWO. Sprayed water everywhere. Use the brass ones and check every crimp. Cut off any that dont crimp right as you go
Yes, well sometimes plastic is preferable to brass. Some people have more challenging conditions - like well water - that can corrode brass and create a leak, and plastic doesn't corrode.
Great video. As a general contractor (or even a homeowner) you don't need to be an expert in every trade, but ultimately you are the one who has to identify poor workmanship and get it rectified. It takes gumption to challenge a proud tradesman who has practiced for 20 years, but believe me, there are guys who have been doing it wrong for 20 years. I came across one sub who knew all the best practices fluently and guaranteed that he abided by them. 6 months later, when all the tile of two bathrooms was torn out, it was plainly obvious that he outright lied about taking the protective measures against water intrusion.
Yes, it's unfortunate but I find that I have to know the technical aspects of every trade. From rebar overlap in a foundation, to water lines and waterproofing in a shower, you need to know any possible issue that could occur later on because ultimately, as a GC, you will be held liable for it all.
That's really methed up!!
🤣
This is the first video about Pex that I have seen that addresses these problems thoroughly. I think I will just do CPVC on my small plumbing job. thanks
Great PEX B explanation. As a DYI I will be cutting out a bad crimp on my house because of this video. I have transitioned to Uponor PEX A from PEX B so I have an issue with both. Unfortunately I need to wait till my friend gets back in town so I can borrow his Uponor $450+ Milwaukee expansion tool to fix my weekend mistakes. Both PEX A & B are challenging to use in a remodel. with corners and tight spaces to crimp in. I need those plastic fittings with the stops. I used to use tape on both sides of the crimp ring to insure my ring didn't slip while crimping.
👍 You can also take the rings and tap them on a hard surface to make them slighlty oval and then they won't slide around on the pipe. Both systems have their pros and cons, but I will continue to stick with copper soldering and PEX-B because the only real issue is that they are difficult to install.
You can't use pex fittings with pex b pipe .
@@floydalbright1214 I didn't I had to use a special couplings that In was screwed together. one side was Pex B and used crimp ring and other side Pex A with expansion tool. Used Pex a fittings for Pex A pipe and Pex B fittings with Pex B pipe
Use cinch clamps instead. MUCH MUCH MUCH easier.
@@jeffgarner3178 you can use PEX b cinch rings on PEX A, just not the other way around.
Great info. Its unfortunate so much rework. The person who crimped should be following you around and learning.
Gentlemen, this brings me to my next point. Don't smoke crack.
lol, or maybe he needed a hit that day...
I doubt that. Even if a hit can bring the addict up to normal you still will not get exceptional quality work.
Just go old fashioned - threaded galvanized pipe. 👌😁
@@jamescalifornia2964 threaded brass pipe is better.
@@fixerupperer / That would be awesome. Last forever !! 👌
Glad I bought the tool and went with expansion PEX. Simply love working with pex-A and not dealing with metal rings or wondering if I missed something.
I guess that you didn't watch the video. He said that expansion PEX is MORE likely to leak over time than with crimp rings.
There's nothing wrong with Pex B / crimps. You just need to know and care about what you're doing. I used it 10 years ago for the first time (not as a plumber) and my cuts and crimps were cleaner that whatever this guy tried to do. A crimp remover goes a long way too. You can cut out a section of pipe without having to cut out entire fittings. Granted, they work a lot better on brass fittings than plastic which is why you should use brass.
Thank you for this very good video, I am working on a bypass to install my water softener this weekend and these examples of how it does not suppose to look are great
Great and if you're line is 3/4" copper or something besides Pex-B I would try to keep your line as 1" Pex-B so as not to restrict flow too much if you plan on not using the water softener for long periods. If it's just temporary servicing then 3/4" is fine.
Thanks for sharing the tub issue with us. I found 10 years ago after having wall all tiled in and the water valve had no mention of this problem. Lot of work to fix.
Mine showed up with water coming out of the shower head.
Yes, that is a bummer...
I've seen the issue with undersized line down to the spout. Told the owner she needed to call the plumbers back. Good news for the dumberPlumbers was the head of the tub backed up to a closet. Bad news, they had to drive 45 minutes each way to to fix a 10 minute screwup. And they had pay me to repair the drywall & replace the shelves.
This was an excellent constructive breakdown of proper pex handling.
Wow. I don't do this type of pex. But it's good to know. This is why prefer cold expansion connections. PEX A Awesome video. Thank.
Thank you. Great explanations. I was wondering WHY pex could not be used from the valve to the tub spout. Nobody explained why but you did. I will make sure I use 1/2 in copper!
Glad it helped!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, I wish everybody would be honest and work correctly.
And now we use PEX A with a expansion tool. PEX B always has oversized because the fittings restrict the water flow.
No pride in the Plummers' work.
Plummers? What about the plumbers?
Great video for understanding how to properly install PEX B crimping. I note that there are drill plates over the drain lines but no drill plates over the PEX B lines. I opted for the PEX A system with expander fittings for my own home as I find the system somewhat superior and the added cost minimal for such a small installation in my case. To my mind, the method has less of a chance of making a bad connection.
Yes, you do have to have steady hands and better coordination with Pex-B. You also have to think ahead, because you can get yourself into a situation where the tool can't reach. The flow rate also makes you up-size on the trunk and not share too many fixtures from 1/2", however it is stronger than Pex-A and I trust the copper ring more than the elastic collars on Pex-A. I don't think either one is inherently different though, and life span should be the same, but I've found 30 year old crimps under old mobile homes that have survived many freezes and thaws and they're still going strong. Can't say the same for Uponor because it's such a young system. Course it comes down to personal preference, biases and ol' plumber tales since neither system has been around for a century.
@@MyFortressConstruction All matter of opinion. I find the PEX A expander system to have less opportunity to install incorrectly. I’ve installed both. And trust myself. Some others? Not so much. You focus on mobile homes, fair enough. I do not install in mobile homes.
Must be the same plumber, and I use that term lightly, that did my house
Yes... Unfortunately, there are many plumbing companies that spread their Masters out across many jobsites and it's apprentices that are doing the actual work with little to no supervision.
And God help you if you get a remodeling company for a shower whose “plumbers” use Sharkbite fittings and will put PEX in stressed positions rather than using a couple of extra elbow fittings. I had a licensed plumber yank it out and put in copper.
@@MyFortressConstruction I really think that is the case. I can see how inexperienced plumbers getting experience by making these mistakes.
@@MyFortressConstruction and way to many masters arent
Thank you for this video. Learning a big thing for free.
Good video, I was actually looking for what happens if you use an expand tool on Pex B instead of A. Those crimps were pretty shitty. But that's probably closer to the norm then the exception, especially in remodels with no inspection. Like you said, those fittings are so forgiving those will still last many many years.
What did you find out with your question? I don't think the B will shrink back.
You can crimp A pex . But do not expand B pex to go on expansion fittings. You would be counting on the expansion rings only to go back to size not B pex. If you expand just right it can work but definitely not recommended. A pex is special with its memory to go back to size.
Very helpful! Just did my first crimp earlier today and had to double check my work.
No professional would ever do that kind of work
The world needs more people who do the right thing for their fellow humans.We need more considerate people.
Yes, the GC on a job generally relies on the subs to know the minutiae. So the GCs only know the basics (hard to know every trade's ins and outs), and so they rely on the subs and inspectors to catch issues, but things like water proofing, flashing, air sealing, using correct fasteners, adhesives, etc. are not always inspected. Also design, which is incredibly important in both HVAC and plumbing, is definitely not taken into account in most spec. homes, where cost and speed are king.
@@MyFortressConstruction That's why they should promote from the bottom up
At 6:55 you can see the top pipe has sun fading. Manufacturer limits sun exposure to 30 days max. Looks to me it got way more than 30 days u.v. exposure.
My word this is atrocious. I hope this guy got paid nothing more than maybe material for just the pex tubing. I can practically hear the air quotes when you said "professional plumber".
Wow! No wonder why there are so many sharkbite and pex haters out there. Its solely because installers such as this are giving them a bad rep. The cutting of the pex looks like some kids cut it with a saw or a pair of dull scissors and the crimping tool they used was obviously a pair of pliers. You can see that the crimping rings are no longer "rings" they are flared out and flattened. I have never seen such shoddy work and I'm not even a plumber. I did a few pex lines myself and never had a leak so far. I liked how you explained where to actually crimp, this made it very clear to me. I just can't believe that I actually crimped in the right area on the pipe!
The majority of those connections wouldn't have had an issue. The only time I've seen pex leak is when I forget to crimp it.
Re-watch around the 8 minute mark, then delete this comment
What about the long run my friend, it's meant to last not to seal for 5 years or so
Four seasons where I live so there's lots of chances for expansion to do what he's explaining, I've also never seen it happen, I'm sure it's possible, I've had faulty PEX crimps where the tab wasn't bent enough from the factory just from one brand and only a couple batches maybe 10 years ago.
The problem with this particular shower valve is the installer INCORRECTLY DOWNSIZED the pipes by going to 1/2 inch PEX and this is NOT a valve DESIGNED for PEX. A valve designed for PEX will have PEX connections AND will have restrictors to limit the flow to the tub taking into account the smaller ID of the PEX. The flow rate of 1/2 inch PEX is NOT the same as 1/2 inch NPT nor 1/2 inch copper. A simple 1/2 inch steel or brass nipple from the shower valve to a 1/2 NPT drop ear elbow would have fixed it.
That’s why you don’t let the new guy crimp the pex, whoever made that mess clearly hasn’t even written his first block
I was worried that I might not do a good job, but not anymore, thank you for the explanation!
Yeah, you'll do fine. Just review the manufacturer instructions and you'll be off to the races. Couple of reminders:
Don't leave it in the sun for more than a day (try not to at all).
Oversize your PEX (3/4" PEX has about the same flow rate as 1/2" copper).
Make clean cuts and straight crimps.
Try to keep fittings to a minimum as they reduce flowrate and add the possibility of a leak.
Thanks for the close up video.
In your explanation, try to indicate with a pencil instead of a finger.
Really? Don’t be so picky
Actually, that's not a bad idea, thanks.
Besides the PEX, in the first few seconds we can see a 2" penetration through a stud pack. There are guard plates, but it should have been a shoe due to the size of the hole on a load bearing member.
It sucks that you can pressure test the system and have not leaked at that time, and that is why I like copper
If an installer puts half the attention and care into a pex joint that they put into a properly done solder joint there really shouldnt be an issue.
Ive worked on a big remodel job. A house plumbed with copper that held pressure for a while(hours or a day maybe) and seemed fine initially. A line burst when noone was around for hours and caused a good bit of damage to subfloors etc. Turns out a 1/2" fitting got prepped and fluxed but not sweated. Was a tight enough fit and sat long enough with flux on it before getting pressurized that it held pressure (probably 50 psi+) for hours with possibly a tiny drip. It wasnt one of my joints, I believe i wasnt soldering yet with that company.
Thank you for that! I'm about to invest in a PEX set just to have on hand and needed a little training on how to do it right!
Great, just make sure you keep it out of UV light (fluorescent, incandescent, and even LED lights can all emit UV radiation to varying levels). It's not usually an issue, but I cover any pipe or plastic fittings that will be exposed to even a day of sunlight. I see some plumbers leave pex pipes out in the sun for months. That's just asking for problems.
This has to be removed and start over, what kinda hack would pipe like that ?
It is Pex-B, which is very popular now
An American plumber
I’m a beginner with pex I take my time do it right the first time and done my dad taught me before he passed away but now his legend
Is in my hands pex has been easy for me now great video
Yeah, slow and steady. No need to rush when it's so quick and simple.
Good presentation, clearly explained. One small suggestion-- when detailing what is wrong with a PEX connection, your camera should be much closer, if possible. The tape measure sequence was OK, but hard to see which rib on the connector was the problem. For the beginner, a closer shot will make crooked angles and close tolerances much easier to see. We subscribed and liked.
Thanks for that, I am trying to improve my videography skills. Practice makes perfect!
@@MyFortressConstruction actually you did good. I know very little about pex but I found each error almost as soon as I seen it. Thanks for the information!
I can't imagine doing work on the house and not knowing these basics before putting together the pipe
When using the copper rings I use a pair of pliers to squeeze the ring a little so that the ring does not move before crimping
I just squeeze the ring a little with my teeth.
Nice idea, but apparently that can make the ring OUT OF a circle alignment so NOW it's MORE likely to leak
@@heyitsrick01 you only squeeze it very lightly and they do not leak.
The only way it would leak if you squeeze it to much.
So many contractors just don't understand, if it's less than your best it's a failure
Yes, there are places for lower quality products, but NEVER lower quality installs.
You’re never supposed to bend pex off of a fitting, you’re supposed to clamp and then you can make up to 22.5 degree turn.
Yeah, you would think it would be common sense. Flexible pipe needs support.
I was looking for this thank you!
I had that problem 10 years ago. The note from kohler did not have information on the packaging. Had to tear out porcelain tile as the job was completed. Removed the pex between the control shower valve and the fill spout for the tub.
Yes, a little knowledge really helps to prevent costly problems.
6:50 that top pipe looks like it's been sitting in the sun.
Yeah, that was something I didn't mention. Some of the pipe was bleached, and as you probably know, uv light and pex don't mix. Or rather, chlorine and uv degraded pex don't mix.
Good eye sir. If so, there will be pin holes in no time.
In 1987, I discovered an empty Quart Beer Bottle between 2 studs in a wall corner of my 1970 built place. I had taken the drywall down to correct an issue with the front entrance doorway. There was no door header!! The framing carpenter had rested a double joist stairway beam onto a single 2X4 over the door opening... 3:40 is a "Quart Bottle" mistake & 10:50 probably 3 Quarts. Imagine how many Quart Bottles were left behind since.
Thats why I use Uponor with shrink rings instead of metal crimps. I don't know how you can say these crimps are less error prone than Uponor. This wouldn't happen with Uponor.
If I said they were less error prone, that would be a mistake. Expansion fittings for Pex-A are much more user friendly to install, which is why plumbers prefer it. What I mean in the video is that Uponor fittings are more likely to leak than Crimp rings if they were both installed correctly. Pex-B has a higher burst rating than Pex-A and if there is movement on the line, or if it is exposed to heat or cold, Pex-A is more likely to develop a leak over time.
@@MyFortressConstruction Pex-A should only use crimps and Pex-B can use either Uponor expansion rings or crimps? Is that the difference noted?
@@DevilTravels PEX-A is a much more flexible pex tubing that uses expansion fittings like Uponor. You can't use crimp fittings on pex A. PEX-B is what you will find in big box stores and it's less flexible and utilizes SS cinch, SS crimp or copper crimp rings. Pex-A is easier to install if you have a battery powered expansion tool, PEX-B is easier for the homeowner because it only requires a $50 manual crimper. Pex-B is better in my opinion for it's durability and strength.
@@MyFortressConstruction Thanks for this information. It seems to support other information I am getting.
It looks like PEX-B and crimping is the direction I will go for my cabin plumbing.
I just need to make sure the crimp is directly over the 2 nubs on the brass connectors.
@@MyFortressConstruction - you can use crimp fittings on Uponor PEX-A piping. Any tubing labeled SDR-9 can be crimped. Uponor is the only tubing that can be expanded, but its also SDR-9.
Inspections have taught me that licenses/certifications mean jack sh*t and anyone is capable of doing terrible work.
I prefer copper over PEX. It’s expensive but worth it. If you screw up, just resolder it no fittings to throw away. Also, you will find out that you made a mistake right away once you do a leak check instead of later down the road and paying up to tens of thousands of dollars for water damage. Also, copper is anti microbial.
We had a neighbor who built their dream home in our neighborhood. They bought an existing home on .7 acres of land. They demolished the existing home and built a huge house on the lot. For some reason, their dream home didn't live up to their expectations. They sold the home for 2.7M after living there for a year. My takeaway is, incompetent subcontractors can work on homes in all price ranges. Our home is an original in our subdivision (less expensive) and I have had to fix a lot of shoddy work. The last thing I fixed is a leak from the bathtub overflow/cleanout. The iron tub did not meet with the PVC overflow pipe. There was about a 1/4" gap between the gasket and the tub that allowed water to flow down the back of the tub onto the ceiling below and cause stains. This little problem had me consider how issues can be magnified when larger, more expensive homes are built by incompetent and/or unethical contractors. What a nightmare if improperly installed PEX leaks behind walls and above ceilings. Leaks under a slab seem to me to be the ultimate nightmare. I wouldn't build a home on a slab. If you are having a home built, you really need to examine the workmanship.
Since the beginning I thought PEX A was a superior product.
I actually prefer Pex-B but Pex-A does have its pros, mainly it's installation ease.
My Fortress Construction why do you prefer pex b? Only benefit I see is you can buy fittings at box stores.
@@krehbein It's faster to install, when you know how to do it, and I have only had one leak from a bad fitting in all of my time of using it, and that leak was evident immediately after pressurizing. It is a more durable pipe and it's easier to work on for homeowners. It's cheaper and parts are more easily sourced. You do have to think ahead about which crimps need to be made first, but that's not rocket science.
My Fortress Construction Good to know. Im have a pex a Dewalt expander, and enjoy working with it. But if I need parts can only get them at a local plumbing supply shop or online. Sometimes using Home Depot would be easier.
My Fortress Construction More durable than PexA? That’s absolutely not true. Uponor is more durable by a large, large margin. PexA is superior in basically every way it matters.
The most important rule for ped b is always go up 1/4 in size than code says. Code states its size based off the id of copper pipe. It takes 3/4 pex b to have the same id as 1/2 copper because of the fittings for pex. I use pex a and typically only need two or three fittings which helps flow.
I do size up, but you don't need to size up with everything. Most valves and fittings in a house restrict the flow of water to smaller than what 1/2" pex-B will be able to provide. It's only an issue when you are providing enough volume to a high flow faucet like a tub filler, or multiple fixtures are feeding off the same line. While it's not a perfect formula, due to fittings, length of pipe and psi coming into the house, my rule of thumb is 1/2" pex can provide a maximum of 5 gpm and 3/4 pex can provide 10 gpm. That's if the run isn't more than 30' or so from the main trunk/manifold. The longer the run, the more the psi drops at those flow rates. If I am putting in a tub filler then I am bringing over two 3/4" lines (hot and cold) and connecting to a TMV which will have 3/4" npt connections anyways and I don't have any issues since most fillers are between 8-14 gpm. Hot and cold 1/2" pex lines going to a shower valve with one shower head is totally fine too since it only requires 2.5 gpm. Where I see people complaining is when a 1/2" trunk line is servicing an entire bathroom. At least use 3/4" to each branch...
Did any of these fittings actually leak? I know the plastic fittings can easily break . I ALWAYS use brass.
We've had big issues with the brass fittings around our area because of the corrosion issue. leaks within 5 years from the brass fitting swelling from corrosion and in some cases actually breaking the rings. While poly fittings are weaker, they are plenty strong enough if the pex is properly hung and supported, which mediocre plumbers rarely do.
Doing my first pex from copper. Im just installing a walk in tub. It came with pex on it. Had never seen it before. Been watching all sorts of videos. This is very helpful. Before even knowing where to crimp. That work rite there. I couldn't ever leave it looking like that. When i build something. I want it to last for its entirety. So no one ever has to go back and fix it. Had this lady that wanted me to just sheet rock over her back door. I was like nope wont do it. Of course she was like why. I asked her why she wanted to do it. She said she seen someone do it that way and if anyone wanted to redo it the door would be there. I said we have a sliding glass door. She is 75 and hard to deal with.
looks like they cut the pex with their teeth.. 🤣🤣... you should get a refund on...🤣🤣👋.. when I install the shower valves I do all the connections with copper..
In the early 90's our shop switched to Uponor (expandable) Pex systems. We all met with a Uponor representative so he could demonstrate how to properly install it. We all received a certification and never looked back. I plumbed a 7 bathroom mansion in La Canada Flintridge Ca. back in 2008. 4 tankless water heaters and miles of Pex. Had only one leak where a wood shaving got into a joint somehow....took 5 mins to repair. Never heard from anyone since.
I walked another water front mansion in Laguna Beach Ca. during it's framing stage and almost ready for drywall. ALL the metal crimp rings had what looked like a layer of rust. Yikes! (Salt water is harsh on just about everything)
8:45 - I think it's more likely that whoever installed the Uponor didn't turn their tool 1/4 inch all around when making the expansion. Pex Crimps and Clamps get weak over time as crimping or clamping is forcing the pipe against its natural state. Uponor pipes naturally want to be its original size and you have to force it to expand to put the fitting in. However, if you don't push the pipe all the way in or don't expand it correctly (1/4 turn all around when expanding), that's when you get your leaks.
The A also does not restrict the water flow, is more flexible and higher pressure at the cost of being 4 times more toxic than B!
@@solarsynapse, you got any proof that Pex-A is 4x more toxic than Pex-B?
@@arcadion448 Do a search and you will find several studies about PEX toxins. The more flexible A leaches more than the less flexible B. It becomes worse with hot water. I think many of the chemicals were in the water itself. Keep in mind that PEX has less data since it has not been around as long as other types of pipe. It still passes "safety" standards except maybe in California. Some of that is due to the lead in the brass fittings.
Chlorine is toxic to all lifeforms, is highly corrosive to metal and causes plastic to become brittle, yet it is used widely in water treatment. Copper is a nutritional supplement, plastic is not. Of course it is bad if lead solder was used instead of silver!
I would say use PEX B, don't drink any water for 30 days after installation, and don't drink any water from the hot side. Also, if a faucet has not been used for over a week, run the water to flush the line before drinking. Filtering is always good. As always, to each their own.
@@solarsynapse Pex was first used (although not for home plumbing) since the 60s, that's plenty of time to gather data. Furthermore, if a simple Google search can't yield any credible sources along with you not being able to provide one simple link - I call BS on your claim.
thank you for this video i have been researching for my refit at home and could not find these basics glad i found this before i got any further along been crimping too close to fittings.
Glad it helped! Hope your project goes well.
This makes me so mad, if you do it, do it like you should, or just never do it and
Love those Holdrite brackets.. Should try the new EvoPEX for Pex, no worries about proper installation depth and 25 year warranty
Yes, I don't know much about evopex though I have used their caps before. I just don't trust anything that is a push fitting inside of a wall.
Use Uponor, problem solved.
Yes, Uponor is usually a plumber's choice. I have a feeling the plumber told his apprentice to do this job and said, "Good luck!"
Thanks for the info. Especially about the tub spout.👍👍
Guess you don't do many houses to know upon does not work in a lot of homes during rough in
@@jerrywhite2818 Been plumbing for almost a quarter of a century. That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I've roughed in many homes with Uponor and I've repipe many existing homes with uponor.
Every bit of that job looks horrible I’d rip it all out and do it over
Should’ve use pinch clasps on those elbows. You can tell they tried to use a crimper at an angle where it wouldn’t go over by the wall/plate guide. Hence the crooked rings. Great video!
Great video, thanks for posting! I did have a question, though. Years past, I used a crimping tool that came with two different “go” and “no go” gauges. As long as the ring fit into the “go” range, one was good, at least I thought. I’ve been reading about over-crimping and cannot find any info as to what the cons may be. I figure the tighter the fitting is, the better, right? The Apollo crimp tool I recently bought comes with the same gauge tool you touched on. Are the lines between “go” and “no go” supposed to line up in the middle of the ring once crimped? And again, if the ring goes all the way in, what’s the harm? I’ve crimped a few couplings that spin once the ring is on, having passed the gauge test, but it worries me. From other comments, it appears that’s normal. The Apollo tool comes with a pressure gauge from 0-3. Any suggestions on where to set it for 1/2” pex rings? At 0, it seemed to fit perfectly based on your video, but again, if the fitting can twist, it makes me nervous it may pop off. Sorry for rambling - any help is appreciated!
I have never had to calibrate a crimp tool, but you are correct in the assumption that if the ring fits in the "go" section of the gauge after crimping, then it is good. So you can spin a fitting after crimping if you have to, but I prefer not to unless there's no way to avoid it. If the line spins freely, with no initial tightness, then I would think the ring isn't crimped how it should be. As for over crimping, I've never heard of that since jaws limit themselves for the most part, but I suppose there could be a set out there like yours that aren't machined to limit themselves. If in doubt, I would call the manufacturer.
@@MyFortressConstruction The only ones I could see that could overset are the ones that have "attachments" that you put on for the different sizes. The ones I have, like you said, just have a physical limit. But they say they CAN be adjusted if too tight. 🤔
Great tutorial...This demonstrates one of the major problems with PEX-B.
PEX-A doesn't have this issue and is easier to repair.
The other issues with PEX-B are that you can't heal a pinched piece of tubing (it lacks memory), and you have line loss through the fittings which can potentially restrict total volume vs. PEX-A fittings being full sized since you expand the tubing and fitting collars over the fitting the I.D. on the fittings and PEX-A tubing is the same).
Also, if you get a tiny leak with PEX-A, you can usually kill the water, drain it, and go over the fitting with a torch or heat gun, then let it air cool to get it to "remember" it's original size and make a positive seal on the fitting....can't do that with PEX-B. You have to chop it out if it leaks.
Yeah... I just hate PEX-B. I'll admit it. LOL
pex takes almost all skill out of being a professional plumber and this one still f-ed it up
Pex is relatively simple, but not exactly easy. It demands perfect cuts and crimps every time, and getting the crimper into some locations is a puzzle, particularly on renovations.
@@wallacegrommet9343 Uponor is definitely DIY-er capable, much more so than any crimp style I've seen. I'd go so far as to call it easy, especially if you're already the kind of person that's mechanically inclined. Cut the pipe square-ish using a cheap cutter, and it does not need to be perfect, put the ring on the pipe until it stops, expand the pipe until the tool bottoms out, and quickly insert the fitting until it bottoms out. Done. Apply heat as necessary in cold conditions. Any more, two power tools would make anybody capable of running any kind of water line used in residential and light commercial applications. An expansion tool, and a press tool.
I work for a wholesaler, and I've turned several DIY homeowners, that want to do as much of it themselves as possible, into quasi-plumbers. Buy the M12 expansion tool kit, do the work, then sell the tool kit off afterwards. You lose $100 on the tool kit in the secondary market, but saved a bundle on rental fees.
I’m bout to start as an apprentice next week this really help !
Great! Do well in your work and keep pride in your trade. 👍👍
At least they didn't use sharkbites, I guess?
Haha, yes... Many diyers say they can *DYI* (Do Yourself In)
What's wrong with sharkbite fittings?
@@kmcwhq They are ok for temporary fittings, and sometimes they can last for years, but they are never going to be as solid as crimp or expandable connections.
@@MyFortressConstruction So not as solid, but solid enough.
@@kmcwhq Yeah, let's just say I would only use them in places that won't be covered by sheetrock/paneling. I have never seen one explode, but I have seen about a dozen leaking drops of water. I would definitely not use them on a hot water line as the heat could degrade the rubber seal faster.
Great video. I am new using pex and have some personnel home repair. I am now confident.
It's great stuff to work with if you follow the rules. Good luck!
You have to try hard to make those mistakes.. 🤣 A license wouldn't haVe helped 😎😂
A license can't help a lazy person
I've seen a video where they got a Uponor fittings and used a machine to try to pull them apart, it didn't. The pipe stretched out and the fitting never came lose at all. Once Uponor fittings contracts, it's impossible for them to come lose.
It's unfortunate how expensive the system is.
I prefer automotive styles stainless Oetiker cinch clamps, ASTM F2098, easy to remove in case of a screw up, can cut the pipe and re-use fitting. Seems more idiot proof than crimping copper rings, cheaper and smaller tool, requires less force and can crimp in tight spaces.
Totally agree. The tool also pretty much prevents you from putting it too close to the base of the fitting, because it gets in the way. These Oetiker clamps have been used for decades in automotive and carbonated drinks. The crimp rings are probably fine, but they look a little too much like Poly-B fittings for my liking.
bnasty267 those poly crimp rings never leaked, it was the fittings and pipe.
You should have considered a manifold system. All home run to manifold valve. No fittings except the stub out. I have this system and the professionals said it was expensive. I say it is less expensive. Consider the labor cost and all those fittings that have to be installed by a plumber. The coiled pex pulls easily.
I was simply there to help my friend, but the benefits of a manifold system can't be overlooked. With a manifold you have less flow restriction from fittings, the ability to shut off individual fixtures and less leaks due to possible de-zincification or improper installation. Pex is pretty cheap and the less fittings, the cheaper it will be. A manifold can be expensive and the labor to pull the individual pex is more, but overall you could have a great system. Downside would be potential waste of water as your sink/shower are on separate valves and have to come from the heater, or you put hots in same room on the same line and have one T fitting there.
Plumber here, manifolds have their advantages and disadvantages. You use a lot more pipe, have to wait for water to get hot at farthest fixture, such as a shower, then turn on sink 2’ away and have to wait for hot water all over again. Harder to adapt onto the existing system later on. Advantages are shut off valves for everything in the basement, pressure balanced (sorta), looks pretty cool if done right, the main thing, like you’ve mentioned is a lot less fittings hiding in the walls and ceilings.
The biggest mistake is putting.the manifold in the mechanical room. Put the manifold near the fixtures (only works in some floorplans). I have 2 in my barndominium. I also have a hot water recirculation system that brings.the hot water to the top of the manifolds.
They also have 3/8 inch pex for the lavatories. A bit of an expensive setup, but it should be a forever thing.
@@MyFortressConstruction " due to possible de-zincification" ....can you elucidate? de-zincification is....? Super interesting thread, thanks loads.
@@kooale Dezyncification occurs when the zinc in the brass fittings gets pulled out by the high chlorine and low pH (acidic) in water, also sulfur and oxygen seem to play a part.
Here's wikipedia on the subject:
The most common example is selective leaching of zinc from brass alloys containing more than 15% zinc (dezincification) in the presence of oxygen and moisture, e.g. from brass taps in chlorine-containing water. It is believed that both copper and zinc gradually dissolve out simultaneously, and copper precipitates back from the solution. The material remaining is a copper-rich sponge with poor mechanical properties, and a color changed from yellow to red. Dezincification can be caused by water containing sulfur, carbon dioxide, and oxygen. Stagnant or low velocity waters tend to promote dezincification.
To combat this, arsenic or tin can be added to brass, or gunmetal can be used instead. Dezincification resistant brass (DZR), also known as Brass C352 is an alloy used to make pipe fittings for use with potable water. Plumbing fittings that are resistant to dezincification are appropriately marked, with the letters "CR" (Corrosion Resistant) or DZR (dezincification resistant) in the UK, and the letters "DR" (dezincification resistant) in Australia.
That was a "professional" plumber? :(
Nope that’s a plumber that is a fly by night, drives an old Ford F-150 sport pickup truck with a ladder rack. Comes into your house and has a fila sweatshirt on and a dirty hat on. Then won’t show up everyday because he is 30 years old and is worried about drinking cheap beer at night and having domestics with his pregnant dirty girlfriend that has pink hair and wears dirty Walmart Ug boots in the summertime.
@@bababooey1266 oddly specific🤔
Thank you for sharing this information. I pray that it did not cost a lot to make the corrections.
It was $800 I want to say, so much better to pay that then have mold or drywall issues in the future.
I was wondering how the plumber passed the exam ?
exam lol...
It looks like those guys prioritized speed over all else. Doing it right is so much faster than doing it twice.
For myself. I stopped using rings as cinch clamps are just easier for me to keep consistent.
Great video my friend.
This all goes back to the half assedness within the construction world today.
That + the fact that "helpers" aren't actually learning anymore, they look and appear to be watching.. but in reality, their brains can't focus on information for longer than 12-15 second.
You are 100% correct. I'm a retired master plumber that ran my own repair business for 45 years. Biggest problem with the work force is lack of proper training and no sense of pride in their workmanship. The person who did this work probably sees nothing wrong with this shoddy work. I truly think that's something you can't teach. A person either has it or they don't. If they don't, they do not or can not see anything wrong with crooked pipe installation, hose bibbs not flush with the brick (sticking out 3" from the brick), leaving dirt and grease handprints on a tub or sink you just worked on, and literally too many scenarios to list or imagine. A guy with pride in his work can look at workmanship and immediately know if it up to proffessional standards. The other guy can't, and to be honest , probably doesn't care. They are the plague of the plumbing industry.
I wish the next time I will call a plumber that he will be as professional as you. :)
Thanks, I just want people to do their job well and take some pride in it. God bless.
Dang it! Now i gotta find a 1/2NPTF to 3/4 pex adapter for the new bath faucet i purchased. Trying to avoid soldering in a fitting.
Great Video, learned a lot.
Yes, you can order a 1/2" fnpt
/Mnpt to 3/4 PEX adapter and a 1/2 fnpt x 3/4 pex drop ear elbow from home Depot or any supplier. They're just not stock normally. Soldering is a good thing to learn, just maybe practice on something easier than the downspout, because soldering copper to brass is harder than copper to copper. Good luck on your project while we're all stuck at home.
If you make the tub spout line with pex it will make the shower head always run. Look at the spec's from any manufacturer and it clearly says don't run spout in pex.
If a last resort use brass or galvanized pipe, they worked for a long time, it does take more effort, much stronger when completed!
@@ericellis8852 and it's STRONG, unlike copper and certainly pex.