Beautifully thought out and presented! I am currently 67. in my twenties I was a top distance thrower, a very good Ultimate and DG competitor, and I was also a professional Frisbee performer. PDGA# 308. After taking a 41 year break, I'm throwing again. I'm 15 months into it now. Some of my learnings then and now might be valuable to you and your viewers. Although I only weighed 145 lbs, I had thigh power. I ice skated, pole vaulted, spring board diving, tumbled, ran cross country, and played ultimate, heavily. Explosive legs add to distance. (I'm working on not being a leg weakling.) I had strong lats. 20 pullups easily. (This time around, I'm focusing on core strength, so the leg and hip power move up the chain with minimal energy loss.) Flexibility. Then I didnt care. Now, because of my age, I think it is essential. to prevent injury, and to stay young, I need more hip and shoulder flexibility (Like Page Pierce.) I work on it 30 minutes, at least 4 times a week. This has been life changing, feeling younger and almost no down time after heavy throwing practice. Your presentation is excellent, and one area less-than-perfect--learning curve. That applies to declarative neurons. Skills are procedural neurons that learn very differently. (I know you know plenty, and what is also true, I am one of a few people on the planet with patents in learning.) Big topic, but I'll try to hit the highlights that build the most neurons... Practice a skill every day, 7 to 10 reps. More identical reps on the same day are a waste of time. However, if you take a nap, there is benefit to doing another training session. Mix up skill training-- A set of putting, a set of forehands, a set of backhands. Interval training is superior to monolithic. In the beginning, avoid training very similar skills. The last training overrides the earlier training. However, once a skill is well honed, practicing subtle variations enriches the procedural neural network. For example, initially practice putting from the same spot, same conditions. Later putt cross wind, up wind, down wind, up hill, down hill, slow, fast, nose up, nose down, at many different lengths. The procedural neural net is now solid and robust. It can now handle and grows from subtle variations. After months of training every day, take a few weeks off. the brain will reorganized and consolidate to increase neural efficiency and conserve space. Neurons that are no longer being used, are pruned. You are so correct that the plan to approach one's potential, takes years. I was hoping for a miracle, just like everyone else. Ugh. I started at 830 rating, and believed in one year, I would reach 900 and two years 950. Nope. I'm playing about 875 after 15 months of hard work. I have had to relearn all my techniques: putting, forehand, backhand, and my bag, that constantly changing. I've had to increase strength and flexibility. I do feel I will reach 900 rating by the end of 2022. More realistic goals are 925 by the end of 2023 and 950 after that in time for my 70th birthday. 🎉 Thanks for great information that is helping so many of us on a similar journey!
I really appreciate this story and pinned for visibility. You are the first commenter I'm aware of with a sub-1000 PDGA number :-) This is all valuable for people to see and reflect on. We're getting there, but people don't talk enough about the athletic part of DG if you're really pushing it - even though I'm only in my 30s, I'd already needed rehab-level intervention to work on strength and flexibility due to desk life, and like you I am working on "resculpting" a lifetime of upper-body oriented training to refocus more on the legs and core. And distributing the practice better is a sound approach, especially for us impatient types! Keep me posted on your goals January 1st, I'm rooting for 900 for you!
As a “youngster” of 61, I appreciate your input. This whole Ace It series has given me a structured path to success, and I need to keep in mind all of these elements in order to have realistic goals within a structured context. I definitely intend to test my limits, but not at all looking for an overnight path to success. I’m also thinking months and years, trusting that a sound and consistent approach over time will result in the best long-term outcome. Thank you, sir!
@@AceItDiscGolf I flattered that you read such a long post. DG can be hard on the body, especially distance training. In my twenties I trained 3 to 4 hours a day different Disc sports. I was always sore. Years of that becomes a mental and emotional drain. Add travel every weekend from Spring to Fall. People see the pros, think it is glamorous. NOT. I just learned I have Moderate, level 3, Osteoarthritis in my left hip, I'm a lefty. I'm not discouraged, but it is a dose of reality. All that grinding on my plant leg has a price. I will indeed keep you posted, 900 by Jan. 1st.
Fantastic break down. In terms of resetting the forgetting curve, I have noticed that giving lessons has helped my own form because it helps me focus on the fundamentals. Also, after working out hard for 12 months, I had much more muscle - but it almost no noticeable speed. It wasn't until closer to 2 years in the gym that my ligaments and tendons have caught up and my actual distance increased.
Awesome, thanks for checking it out! I can definitely tell body adaptation is a patience game. First 6 months were basically rehab from pandemic life. The last 6 were strengthening and building resilience and flexibility over time. Now my upper right pec, shoulder, and arm are the most vulnerable spots. Ligament and tendon adaptation is a real thing. Slow and steady for me, man.
@@AceItDiscGolf I also would suggest swimming as much as possible - especially in upper pec, shoulder - you get so much resistence from a wide range of motion. And it cuts fat like a hot knife through butter. I just jump in the pool after a regular wokout and swim until I am ready to die: about 10 minutes.
I really appreciate the ability to build knowledge due to the co-operation of the lineage of teachers from Loopghost and Seabass22 to OT and ACE It, there's absolutely no way I would have been able to make it to where I am today without help from all of you. I had to stop playing this round to comment because this is where I can actually draw a concrete line of having my backhand drive down solid. There's always going to be room for improvement but I've been thinking a lot about the things in this video (timely btw) and metrics for measuring improvement. It's take me 12 months of practicing nearly every day (probably around 350 of 365 days) to go from no form to just now on the last 2 holes, feeling the weight shift perfectly leading all parts of my body movements. I'll be honest, it's slightly surreal after having worked on it for so long. I started learning the game at 40 (played casually for a couple years a decade ago but never looked at form). I'm 41 and wouldn't consider myself to be naturally athletic, yet the rate I improved this last year has me playing consistently, slightly below players that have been throwing for 20 years. No they aren't pros but they're pretty damn good. I'm more than happy and max distance is right under 400 for me currently, although after today, I need to check again. Let's put it another way: my form and overall game has improved so fast that I routinely make disc and power selection errors purely because of getting better. Every time I readjust, I have to change it again. It's the absolute best possible problem in the game to have. So once again, thank you!
Excellent video! Thank you. Been playing part time for a year now and plan to start playing full time shortly. I'm going to be 60, 6'-3" with a 6'-5" wingspan. Been athletic all my life. Really looking forward to this!!
@@AceItDiscGolf agreed! Looking forward to competing again. The mind says I'm still 25, but the body is quick to remind me I'm not. Thanks for the guidance about over training and rest.
Thank you for taking the time to put this together. This information is crucial for people starting disc golf, or any sport involving intense movements, at an older age. Could you make this available as an article/blog somewhere?
That's a great idea, I'll have to consider where to host it. I've also gathered a lot of sources on distance at the amateur and pro levels that would be nice to link in one place!
I'm 5'9" with a 6'4" wingspan. However I started playing disc golf late in life (47 years old) and without prior sports-specific experience I've found I just can't take advantage of my leverage - at least yet - but hopefully form improvements allow me to do this. I wanted to mention something about learning. I've found it's also helpful to try to train "in the moment" when you are throwing on the course, which can help if you can't do a lot of formwork between days playing disc golf. Also, I took a week off after being sick with c19 and when I came back I was more focused with throwing and putting. I think in the same vein as "absence makes the heart grows fonder" the time away from the field or practicing or training can help make the game itself seem like a chore. Anyhow, keep up the great work!
Nice! When you get those levers whipping you'll enjoy it. When I'm trying to do "in the moment" work on the course I usually pick one "swing thought" to work on that day. Establishing a pre-shot routine and swing also really helps set you up for success!
This was a helpful video. I’ve definitely been the guy who tries to work on form throwing into a net in the back yard, trying to find that one thing that will magically add distance, and then hurt my shoulder and have a shoulder impingement issue for months. (Gone now, but it lasted a while)
You keep raising the bar! Great work, as always! I've taken a break from reading about form because, at least personally, I hit a point where being too cerebral about the form takes up too much space and ironically gets in the way of just playing. What are your own feelings on this? When does it all get to be too much? Injury prevention/management exlcuded.
Sorry I missed this before! I'm a total headcase who is getting better, so I actually have advice about this. I do think it's important to know how form works to an extent, especially as an adult learner. But there's always something new to learn. It will never end. Even Paul McBeth still tinkers with his form. And disc golf should be fun. -A good coach helps get you out of your head. The more I just drill as I'm told, the better I get whether or not I'm thinking about it. Eventually, you start becoming your own coach when you know what to look for. -Everything takes longer than you think it will, and you should expect setbacks. It's ok. -Find ways to make it fun. Due to restrictions I throw a lot in my basement. Whether I'm inside or outside I "gamify" my sessions to make the goal for the day more fun. -Use music to help your rhythm and drown out your brain. I really like throwing to metal and electronic music when I practice. 3/4 time signature like Waltz is good for golf and disc golf. -When I'm working on form I only focus on exactly one thing per swing. -As the form gets more mature, it's easier to make fast adjustments, even from swing to swing. That took me almost a year. I'm still learning how to do it. -I rarely think about form on the course. If I do, it's just focusing on the same exact thing I'm working on in my practice sessions so I make sure the training is sinking in. That means I'm willing to sacrifice strokes sometimes for the sake of new learning. -Sometimes the best thing to do is skip a fieldwork session and just go shoot a round by myself. -Take a break. I push hard, but I keep getting better at this. It's really important.
I would love to get your input on Dave Feldberg. From what I can tell he is average height (5’11” according to wiki), not super athletic, has extremely broad shoulders, very short arms, average to possibly small hands, has barely any elbow bend in his throw and yet still throws a solid 450’-500’ at age 45. He’s got some sort of secret sauce I swear.
Feldberg has one of the forms that I fear will be forgotten in time, but can teach a lot about form fundamentals. Here's what I'd say at the moment. He has one of the purest pendulum forms there is - his pump and swing are like pendula and his lack of elbow bend might not be ideal for leverage) I believe he developed it due to injury), but works well in the context of his overall form. He is incredibly well-balanced moving foot to foot and is perfectly synchronized. He's very flexible and at least athletic enough to pull of his well-coordinated, extreme transition move through the x-step. I think we often underestimate how specialized the body can become for certain athletic moves with enough practice over years. Feldberg gets a lot of vertical force (hopping up) AND a lot of horizontal force (hopping forward). He stays relatively tall in the stance/more extended legs which might help him maximize transferring that vertical part when he lands (think Gurthie or young Simon). He gets very large separation between his shoulder and the disc - he actually gets his body mass moving further ahead of the disc before his x-step lands than most players do. He is LAUNCHING his mass forward off the "prep step" (step before the x-step) being pulled by the arm/disc. That separation effect is probably a huge factor, and gives him proportional loading in the backswing. So these factors together give him a huge leverage/whip effect on the disc.
How do you feel about the pro pull training system, or any kind of resistance band training. I need to work on my fast twitch muscles, so I was thinking about just doing HOLDS instead of using the bands to go through the backhand motions. But if I use holds, AT WHAT POINT(S) DO I HOLD THE RESISTANCE?
There's no replacement for form work, but I like resistance bands in general. They help emphasis smooth and scaled resistance and I mix them in with freeweight training. If you do holds, I think contracting to the peak of the movement, holding it, then slowly releasing it is generally a good pattern. I otherwise do plyometrics, smooth and explosive resistance band training, and kettlebells in the gym. I do a lot more high rep volume and dynamic functional moves than traditional lifts now just because it is making my body more fit, flexible, and resilient overall.
That was very interesting and extremely depressing at the same time 😅. I am 45, not very athletic (even my 23andme test felt the need to really rub it up my nose that I am a sloth basically) and a woman. I have got nothing working for me here other than my hight (5'8) and grit. I throw a lousy 160feet and boy was I imagining that with only practice and more practice I would reach 300...I feel a bit disappointed now, but at the same time maybe also.. relieved? There is no way I could possibly throw as far as my husband, no matter how much willpower I bring to the table😁. So I will set up more reasonable goals and accept the fact that I am a middle-aged woman with sloth genes. It is still fun to play 💕
Fear not! We sloths always have room to improve. Simplify what you work on to a piece at a time. The better your body weight leads the disc to the target in balance, the more potential power you can get!
The only thing we can do is aim to maximize what we've got! You can always work on form and fitness, but unfortunately not those dang levers! Some random food for thought: I do think most healthy people can work up to the consistent 400'-something range with patience and hard work. Obviously some people can get there more easily than others. I think the recent worlds distance contest in FPO also indicates that the distance in that division has a higher ceiling that most people might think. I always reiterate that I've been working hard at this rebuild for nearly a year and am always willing to lose a little distance to fix things before pumping it back up. I tend to get just over 400', then seabas22 pins me down on the next big mechanical issue, then I back off again to sort it out for a while, then I get to that range again with much less effort and reduced wear and tear. Right now I've been having a "first world problem" where my kinetic chain is rapidly improving, but there are always rough spots. My arm isn't maximizing its potential and it puts my shoulder at risk. So I've buckled down to work hard on that before pushing distance again. If I had the same mechanics and longer levers I'd be curious how far I'd be throwing. I will not complain if I end up plateauing in the low 400s, and even if I can muster more (e.g., with more runup, more hop, or more explosiveness), I'd worry about the wear and tear on my body type. I'm built like a draft horse, not a thoroughbred. But I can keep learning to easily sling that disc with the weight of that big stumpy body, ya know? The first and main problem is that most people aren't patient enough to get the mechanics that scale up to 400'+ power (with hard work). Breakthroughs and plateaus are difficult to predict even when you're working hard on it. IMO and I think seabas22's and others' experience, that additional 100'+ is often a combination of the factors I discussed in this vid. Once the mechanics are pretty sound, you can add more distance-focused training and more runup/hop as long as you aren't spoiling the form. There are reasons smaller dudes like Chris Dickerson run more to get similar distance to someone like Gibson, who just often uses a compact four-step and small hop. There are some important form and lever differences between them. A huge, athletic, strong guy like Brodie Smith had a lot working for him to get to his distance potential. Ezra Aderhold is young and built like a Greek statue and has ridiculously long arms, but remember that he also spent 2 years just focused on form before competing. There are also probably differences in wear and tear for all these variations in form and their fit to certain body types. Time will tell. Enjoy the journey, as they say :-)
Always might chime in pro bono with seabas22 on DGCR forums. I also have a model for more intensive video critique now that I'm almost ready to start. I'm away next week but willing to take on a few cases after that. E-mail me at aceitdiscgolf at gmail.com if interested!
Beautifully thought out and presented!
I am currently 67. in my twenties I was a top distance thrower, a very good Ultimate and DG competitor, and I was also a professional Frisbee performer. PDGA# 308.
After taking a 41 year break, I'm throwing again. I'm 15 months into it now. Some of my learnings then and now might be valuable to you and your viewers.
Although I only weighed 145 lbs, I had thigh power. I ice skated, pole vaulted, spring board diving, tumbled, ran cross country, and played ultimate, heavily. Explosive legs add to distance. (I'm working on not being a leg weakling.)
I had strong lats. 20 pullups easily. (This time around, I'm focusing on core strength, so the leg and hip power move up the chain with minimal energy loss.)
Flexibility. Then I didnt care. Now, because of my age, I think it is essential. to prevent injury, and to stay young, I need more hip and shoulder flexibility (Like Page Pierce.) I work on it 30 minutes, at least 4 times a week. This has been life changing, feeling younger and almost no down time after heavy throwing practice.
Your presentation is excellent, and one area less-than-perfect--learning curve. That applies to declarative neurons. Skills are procedural neurons that learn very differently.
(I know you know plenty, and what is also true, I am one of a few people on the planet with patents in learning.)
Big topic, but I'll try to hit the highlights that build the most neurons...
Practice a skill every day, 7 to 10 reps. More identical reps on the same day are a waste of time. However, if you take a nap, there is benefit to doing another training session.
Mix up skill training-- A set of putting, a set of forehands, a set of backhands. Interval training is superior to monolithic.
In the beginning, avoid training very similar skills. The last training overrides the earlier training. However, once a skill is well honed, practicing subtle variations enriches the procedural neural network. For example, initially practice putting from the same spot, same conditions. Later putt cross wind, up wind, down wind, up hill, down hill, slow, fast, nose up, nose down, at many different lengths. The procedural neural net is now solid and robust. It can now handle and grows from subtle variations.
After months of training every day, take a few weeks off. the brain will reorganized and consolidate to increase neural efficiency and conserve space. Neurons that are no longer being used, are pruned.
You are so correct that the plan to approach one's potential, takes years. I was hoping for a miracle, just like everyone else. Ugh. I started at 830 rating, and believed in one year, I would reach 900 and two years 950. Nope.
I'm playing about 875 after 15 months of hard work. I have had to relearn all my techniques: putting, forehand, backhand, and my bag, that constantly changing. I've had to increase strength and flexibility.
I do feel I will reach 900 rating by the end of 2022. More realistic goals are 925 by the end of 2023 and 950 after that in time for my 70th birthday. 🎉
Thanks for great information that is helping so many of us on a similar journey!
I really appreciate this story and pinned for visibility. You are the first commenter I'm aware of with a sub-1000 PDGA number :-)
This is all valuable for people to see and reflect on. We're getting there, but people don't talk enough about the athletic part of DG if you're really pushing it - even though I'm only in my 30s, I'd already needed rehab-level intervention to work on strength and flexibility due to desk life, and like you I am working on "resculpting" a lifetime of upper-body oriented training to refocus more on the legs and core. And distributing the practice better is a sound approach, especially for us impatient types!
Keep me posted on your goals January 1st, I'm rooting for 900 for you!
As a “youngster” of 61, I appreciate your input. This whole Ace It series has given me a structured path to success, and I need to keep in mind all of these elements in order to have realistic goals within a structured context. I definitely intend to test my limits, but not at all looking for an overnight path to success. I’m also thinking months and years, trusting that a sound and consistent approach over time will result in the best long-term outcome. Thank you, sir!
#308? Dayum! That's OG right there.
@@xAllCatsAreBeautiful1312x yes, started DG before baskets. I was 4 time NJ DG Champion, object golf.
@@AceItDiscGolf I flattered that you read such a long post.
DG can be hard on the body, especially distance training. In my twenties I trained 3 to 4 hours a day different Disc sports. I was always sore. Years of that becomes a mental and emotional drain. Add travel every weekend from Spring to Fall. People see the pros, think it is glamorous. NOT.
I just learned I have Moderate, level 3, Osteoarthritis in my left hip, I'm a lefty. I'm not discouraged, but it is a dose of reality. All that grinding on my plant leg has a price.
I will indeed keep you posted, 900 by Jan. 1st.
Wanted to acknowledge the big effort that went into this video, thanks
Commenting for the algorithm,great video!
information that the regular discgolfer has great value of learning, well done.
This is awesome. I love the scientific approach to disc golf and would watch anything else like this.
Fantastic break down. In terms of resetting the forgetting curve, I have noticed that giving lessons has helped my own form because it helps me focus on the fundamentals. Also, after working out hard for 12 months, I had much more muscle - but it almost no noticeable speed. It wasn't until closer to 2 years in the gym that my ligaments and tendons have caught up and my actual distance increased.
Awesome, thanks for checking it out!
I can definitely tell body adaptation is a patience game. First 6 months were basically rehab from pandemic life. The last 6 were strengthening and building resilience and flexibility over time. Now my upper right pec, shoulder, and arm are the most vulnerable spots. Ligament and tendon adaptation is a real thing. Slow and steady for me, man.
@@AceItDiscGolf I also would suggest swimming as much as possible - especially in upper pec, shoulder - you get so much resistence from a wide range of motion. And it cuts fat like a hot knife through butter. I just jump in the pool after a regular wokout and swim until I am ready to die: about 10 minutes.
@@loopghost lmao. My wife swims at the gym and I might need to grab a lane with her to her delight (or maybe consternation)
I really appreciate the ability to build knowledge due to the co-operation of the lineage of teachers from Loopghost and Seabass22 to OT and ACE It, there's absolutely no way I would have been able to make it to where I am today without help from all of you. I had to stop playing this round to comment because this is where I can actually draw a concrete line of having my backhand drive down solid. There's always going to be room for improvement but I've been thinking a lot about the things in this video (timely btw) and metrics for measuring improvement. It's take me 12 months of practicing nearly every day (probably around 350 of 365 days) to go from no form to just now on the last 2 holes, feeling the weight shift perfectly leading all parts of my body movements. I'll be honest, it's slightly surreal after having worked on it for so long. I started learning the game at 40 (played casually for a couple years a decade ago but never looked at form). I'm 41 and wouldn't consider myself to be naturally athletic, yet the rate I improved this last year has me playing consistently, slightly below players that have been throwing for 20 years. No they aren't pros but they're pretty damn good. I'm more than happy and max distance is right under 400 for me currently, although after today, I need to check again. Let's put it another way: my form and overall game has improved so fast that I routinely make disc and power selection errors purely because of getting better. Every time I readjust, I have to change it again. It's the absolute best possible problem in the game to have. So once again, thank you!
Excellent video! Thank you. Been playing part time for a year now and plan to start playing full time shortly. I'm going to be 60, 6'-3" with a 6'-5" wingspan. Been athletic all my life. Really looking forward to this!!
Not gonna lie, I envy those levers! Love that this sport can be played at any stage of life and glad you're joining the frenzy!
@@AceItDiscGolf agreed! Looking forward to competing again. The mind says I'm still 25, but the body is quick to remind me I'm not. Thanks for the guidance about over training and rest.
Great info!
this video is extremely well done. Thank you for all the info!
Thank you for taking the time to put this together. This information is crucial for people starting disc golf, or any sport involving intense movements, at an older age. Could you make this available as an article/blog somewhere?
That's a great idea, I'll have to consider where to host it. I've also gathered a lot of sources on distance at the amateur and pro levels that would be nice to link in one place!
I'm 5'9" with a 6'4" wingspan. However I started playing disc golf late in life (47 years old) and without prior sports-specific experience I've found I just can't take advantage of my leverage - at least yet - but hopefully form improvements allow me to do this. I wanted to mention something about learning. I've found it's also helpful to try to train "in the moment" when you are throwing on the course, which can help if you can't do a lot of formwork between days playing disc golf. Also, I took a week off after being sick with c19 and when I came back I was more focused with throwing and putting. I think in the same vein as "absence makes the heart grows fonder" the time away from the field or practicing or training can help make the game itself seem like a chore. Anyhow, keep up the great work!
Nice! When you get those levers whipping you'll enjoy it. When I'm trying to do "in the moment" work on the course I usually pick one "swing thought" to work on that day. Establishing a pre-shot routine and swing also really helps set you up for success!
This was a helpful video. I’ve definitely been the guy who tries to work on form throwing into a net in the back yard, trying to find that one thing that will magically add distance, and then hurt my shoulder and have a shoulder impingement issue for months. (Gone now, but it lasted a while)
Very great video with a lot of good info. I think it is really very good.
One question I have, why do not you use meter for the sizes?
Based in America Imperial units are more common so it was a matter of convenience, but the scientist in me laments the lack of metric :-)
You keep raising the bar! Great work, as always! I've taken a break from reading about form because, at least personally, I hit a point where being too cerebral about the form takes up too much space and ironically gets in the way of just playing. What are your own feelings on this? When does it all get to be too much? Injury prevention/management exlcuded.
Sorry I missed this before!
I'm a total headcase who is getting better, so I actually have advice about this. I do think it's important to know how form works to an extent, especially as an adult learner. But there's always something new to learn. It will never end. Even Paul McBeth still tinkers with his form. And disc golf should be fun.
-A good coach helps get you out of your head. The more I just drill as I'm told, the better I get whether or not I'm thinking about it. Eventually, you start becoming your own coach when you know what to look for.
-Everything takes longer than you think it will, and you should expect setbacks. It's ok.
-Find ways to make it fun. Due to restrictions I throw a lot in my basement. Whether I'm inside or outside I "gamify" my sessions to make the goal for the day more fun.
-Use music to help your rhythm and drown out your brain. I really like throwing to metal and electronic music when I practice. 3/4 time signature like Waltz is good for golf and disc golf.
-When I'm working on form I only focus on exactly one thing per swing.
-As the form gets more mature, it's easier to make fast adjustments, even from swing to swing. That took me almost a year. I'm still learning how to do it.
-I rarely think about form on the course. If I do, it's just focusing on the same exact thing I'm working on in my practice sessions so I make sure the training is sinking in. That means I'm willing to sacrifice strokes sometimes for the sake of new learning.
-Sometimes the best thing to do is skip a fieldwork session and just go shoot a round by myself.
-Take a break. I push hard, but I keep getting better at this. It's really important.
I would love to get your input on Dave Feldberg. From what I can tell he is average height (5’11” according to wiki), not super athletic, has extremely broad shoulders, very short arms, average to possibly small hands, has barely any elbow bend in his throw and yet still throws a solid 450’-500’ at age 45. He’s got some sort of secret sauce I swear.
Feldberg has one of the forms that I fear will be forgotten in time, but can teach a lot about form fundamentals. Here's what I'd say at the moment.
He has one of the purest pendulum forms there is - his pump and swing are like pendula and his lack of elbow bend might not be ideal for leverage) I believe he developed it due to injury), but works well in the context of his overall form. He is incredibly well-balanced moving foot to foot and is perfectly synchronized. He's very flexible and at least athletic enough to pull of his well-coordinated, extreme transition move through the x-step. I think we often underestimate how specialized the body can become for certain athletic moves with enough practice over years.
Feldberg gets a lot of vertical force (hopping up) AND a lot of horizontal force (hopping forward). He stays relatively tall in the stance/more extended legs which might help him maximize transferring that vertical part when he lands (think Gurthie or young Simon). He gets very large separation between his shoulder and the disc - he actually gets his body mass moving further ahead of the disc before his x-step lands than most players do. He is LAUNCHING his mass forward off the "prep step" (step before the x-step) being pulled by the arm/disc. That separation effect is probably a huge factor, and gives him proportional loading in the backswing. So these factors together give him a huge leverage/whip effect on the disc.
How do you feel about the pro pull training system, or any kind of resistance band training. I need to work on my fast twitch muscles, so I was thinking about just doing HOLDS instead of using the bands to go through the backhand motions. But if I use holds, AT WHAT POINT(S) DO I HOLD THE RESISTANCE?
There's no replacement for form work, but I like resistance bands in general. They help emphasis smooth and scaled resistance and I mix them in with freeweight training. If you do holds, I think contracting to the peak of the movement, holding it, then slowly releasing it is generally a good pattern.
I otherwise do plyometrics, smooth and explosive resistance band training, and kettlebells in the gym. I do a lot more high rep volume and dynamic functional moves than traditional lifts now just because it is making my body more fit, flexible, and resilient overall.
Well done!
@@AceItDiscGolf Wut?
@@seabas22 Haha - I gave you three more hearts because one wasn't enough.
@@AceItDiscGolf Hearts? All I see is 3 3s and
@@seabas22 supposed to be the heart emoji: www.dictionary.com/e/emoji/heart-symbol/
Looks like YT doesn't convert it to a heart icon
That was very interesting and extremely depressing at the same time 😅. I am 45, not very athletic (even my 23andme test felt the need to really rub it up my nose that I am a sloth basically) and a woman. I have got nothing working for me here other than my hight (5'8) and grit. I throw a lousy 160feet and boy was I imagining that with only practice and more practice I would reach 300...I feel a bit disappointed now, but at the same time maybe also.. relieved? There is no way I could possibly throw as far as my husband, no matter how much willpower I bring to the table😁. So I will set up more reasonable goals and accept the fact that I am a middle-aged woman with sloth genes. It is still fun to play 💕
Fear not! We sloths always have room to improve. Simplify what you work on to a piece at a time. The better your body weight leads the disc to the target in balance, the more potential power you can get!
I'm 5'8, broad shoulders, stocky legs and arms, average-length arms and all that. My ceiling is looking pretty low
The only thing we can do is aim to maximize what we've got! You can always work on form and fitness, but unfortunately not those dang levers! Some random food for thought:
I do think most healthy people can work up to the consistent 400'-something range with patience and hard work. Obviously some people can get there more easily than others. I think the recent worlds distance contest in FPO also indicates that the distance in that division has a higher ceiling that most people might think.
I always reiterate that I've been working hard at this rebuild for nearly a year and am always willing to lose a little distance to fix things before pumping it back up. I tend to get just over 400', then seabas22 pins me down on the next big mechanical issue, then I back off again to sort it out for a while, then I get to that range again with much less effort and reduced wear and tear.
Right now I've been having a "first world problem" where my kinetic chain is rapidly improving, but there are always rough spots. My arm isn't maximizing its potential and it puts my shoulder at risk. So I've buckled down to work hard on that before pushing distance again. If I had the same mechanics and longer levers I'd be curious how far I'd be throwing. I will not complain if I end up plateauing in the low 400s, and even if I can muster more (e.g., with more runup, more hop, or more explosiveness), I'd worry about the wear and tear on my body type. I'm built like a draft horse, not a thoroughbred. But I can keep learning to easily sling that disc with the weight of that big stumpy body, ya know?
The first and main problem is that most people aren't patient enough to get the mechanics that scale up to 400'+ power (with hard work). Breakthroughs and plateaus are difficult to predict even when you're working hard on it.
IMO and I think seabas22's and others' experience, that additional 100'+ is often a combination of the factors I discussed in this vid. Once the mechanics are pretty sound, you can add more distance-focused training and more runup/hop as long as you aren't spoiling the form. There are reasons smaller dudes like Chris Dickerson run more to get similar distance to someone like Gibson, who just often uses a compact four-step and small hop. There are some important form and lever differences between them. A huge, athletic, strong guy like Brodie Smith had a lot working for him to get to his distance potential. Ezra Aderhold is young and built like a Greek statue and has ridiculously long arms, but remember that he also spent 2 years just focused on form before competing.
There are also probably differences in wear and tear for all these variations in form and their fit to certain body types. Time will tell.
Enjoy the journey, as they say :-)
If you every feel like giving online lessons, I'll be the first to sign up :)
Always might chime in pro bono with seabas22 on DGCR forums. I also have a model for more intensive video critique now that I'm almost ready to start. I'm away next week but willing to take on a few cases after that. E-mail me at aceitdiscgolf at gmail.com if interested!
Great info!