Thank you for summarizing these fundamental swing concepts so concisely and thoroughly. The feeling-based approach of focusing on how much energy you're getting to the hit zone starting from your feet needs to be taught before everything else in my mind, because it's more fundamental than everything else.
Swinging the leg back counter balance is Ala Ken Jones. I like his form. Ha too funny. You lost your disc in the basement!! Just like like playing on the course. 3 min rule or take a penalty. Love your teaching style. You are studying the physics.
Thanks! Look for the counterbalances and you'll see them everywhere in top form. Appreciate that, I do take the actual swing physics seriously and try to boil it down as best I can.
Probably the most helpful video I’ve found on this subject! It never made sense in any other video really on how “to engage” your hips and I was just doing the spinning hips torque problem you talked about. But this is great I can’t believe this isn’t millions of views. In video at 13:41 you said the disc wants to pivot out..? I’m not sure what you meant exactly by pivot out?
Unfortunately a lot of people are still teaching the hips wrong because they don't understand how it relates to the weight shift. And what's worse is that you don't really want to force the weight to shift - you want to allow it to happen as part of the swing. Shawn Clement in ball golf is the best instructor for learning this IMO. I'll talk about it more in my next couple short segments. Pivot out - the disc will typically pivot off the index finger last in most grips. But when players actively try to pivot it off the index finger, they're losing that full leverage we want. Also, as you get better at the hammer-like swing, the disc will want to pivot out & release early because you're adding more force. So by "resisting" the pivot, I'm talking abou trying to maintain grip on it like you would a hammer rather than letting it pivot or slip out early. Just today I was focused on my hammer swings on the course and I was getting tons of early releases because I was getting more late acceleration. So I had to focus on not letting the disc slip & keep swinging the hammer through the release point. This stuff really helps.
Thinking about slashing through or hitting something is i think maybe not great visuals because I thought about hitting the object and trying to apply all the power into and stop. I think a looser but more helpful visual would be driving a car. You get up to 60 mph and then coast until you roll to a stop.
Hey, thanks for commenting! If one idea doesn't work, try another! I will provide a bit more context in case it helps. I may be missing your intent, but the idea is not to hit something and stop. It is to hit or slash or drive through the release point like other high level athletic moves. You will hear this concept in most throwing and swinging sports. Not everyone responds well to a given version of this idea, however. For instance, I was trying to learn the "slash through" version, but it wasn't until I hit a physical object that it "clicked" for me. But that's also probably because I had been doing martial arts for more than a decade and the idea of committing through a release point/hit point/whatever you want to call it was much more natural to my body when I physically struck something. Thinking also did not help me. I had to try various actions until one "clicked." Unfortunately, I find it hard to predict which concept is going to work for a given person, but usually something closer to what they were already good at works faster (e.g., McBeth with baseball swings and throws, Josh from Overthrow with tennis, me from martial arts, etc.). One thing I still find odd but worth mentioning is the "gestalt" of the move. In motor learning, bodies either tend to "get it" or not. Like when babies suddenly go from crawling to a rudimentary walk. I'm still very much a developing player, but I find it interesting that the "hammer/hit/slash/throw/punch through" part of the move is either there, or it's not. I can literally tell from throw to throw now. Good throws (high power/effort ratio and clean throws with good accuracy) have it. Bad throws don't.
@@AceItDiscGolf thank you so much for the reply. I realized from the way you were explaining it that my concept was incorrect. I'll try to elaborate a bit. In my mind, I was hitting a steel door with an imaginary hammer. Because it's a steel door, all the power goes into the door and the hammer stops dead against the steel door and maybe leaves a dent in the door. I think the better thought is that the door is made of plywood and instead of hitting an immovable steel door with a hammer, you blast through the plywood door, destroy it and the hammer swings all the way through the door. I would really like some insight on another issue I'm having if you don't mind answering. When I try to load my rear foot, it spins away from the target. Including a clip for reference. th-cam.com/users/shortssPFl-kgUFhg?si=9hozV5JfBC6zJre5
@@samhowl1152 I think that was a keen insight: "the better thought is that the hammer destroys the plywood door." Around the same time I was learning this part of the action, I literally hit plywood with a sledgehammer too (completely unrelated to disc golf). I'd say it is a similar feel. Just like my heavy bag, there's a little "give" in the target. I had the "ah ha!" moment when my little hammerhead punched clean through the bag with no effort. Air has negligible resistance and a lot of give compared to your arm, so it's maybe closer to smashing plywood than steel. What the plywood or steel give you is just physical feedback - it's a proxy for the real thing in air with the disc. Now kind of a philosophical question is whether the plywood is really different from steel - you could still try to commit the blow through the steel to dent it like you said, but there is real immoveable resistance by sufficiently thick steel. I guess however you think about it, discs aren't hammers, but the "slash/smash through" is accessing whatever that "striking through" effect is in your body and brain. I've seen enough people struggle with this so I'm not sure any one thing works for 100% of people. Your clip: it's rotated sideways for me, but it looks like you are kind of spoiling the leverage as you x-step and turning your hips fully back away. Instead, you want it to work more like running sideways 100 yards. You could try this drill: proxy.imagearchive.com/e80/e80b27bbed4ecb4168411b0b05ef7e61.gif Also seabas22 Hershyzer drills. Advanced X-step is very difficult to learn, take a piece at a time & hang in there!
When I do that it feels like I don't have enough time to turn my torso back. I see what you mean about getting a leveraged feeling from it though. How do I turn back while doing that? Mine kinda looks like the demonstration where he's not getting much torso rotation either.
Hey, I saw you on DGCR and crushing it! Very inspiring. How's your DG going now? Totally, and limp-wristed suckers like me really benefit from hammers, especially if you're not used to swinging clubs, rackets, baseball bats, etc.
Hey, Ive reached a plateau so im trying different things every week to check the effect of the changes i do and its value. But having a decent throw is not even half of the work that has to be done to become a proffesional. But im training 2-5 hours everyday, trying my best to become better. I like your channel and how you simplify things, when seabas22 is coaching me i find myself asking the same question a few times.
Awesome, I'm hoping to see you out there! I'll always fully credit the OG since I couldn't have learned any of this without him. Glad my way of summarizing some things is helpful. Always gotta be willing to experiment a little to grow! Keep it up!
First, good video, I liked the thorough explanation. Second, maybe drill a hole in the handle and tie a strap for your wrist if it is flying out of your hand?
TL;DR: land on the toe and let the pressure flow to the foot outstep and pump up the leg, pivoting on the heel. It's ok to come back over on the ball of the foot in follow through but generally the toe-heel action and heel pivot is safer. Notice this action in Simon when he throws his power hyzers, just like my hammer swing into the bag. More to say: Admittedly I already don't think about it anymore, and it just kind of happens depending on the shot. But I did initially have lots of leg problems and needed to learn to get my calves more involved and land more toe-heel on my power hyzer shots at first. Toe-heel on hyzer helps you get more leverage off the front off the foot and protects the plant knee unless you have really pristine leg mechanics and control and can stay on the ball of the foot. It's also easier for lighter people. For example, you'll see McBeth stay more on the ball of his foot for controlled shots even on hyzer, but remember he has very extreme anatomy and years of experience. He's short and quick with very long levers and narrow shoulders. He likes to swing through that high arm slot for control unless he's really mashing it. I'm on the opposite extreme - tall and slow with short levers and wide shoulders. You could only make my body type worse for DG by making me shorter. I cannot generate much power on a shot without swinging in my low arm slot and using my full weight. I can only safely do that by pivoting on the heel in my case. So here's a recent standstill showing me barefoot so you can see how my feet are interacting with the ground. Notice how everything swings back and forth nice and effortlessly together like a flat pendulum and the disc accelerates late and quickly. th-cam.com/video/oCU9zW66BlM/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for another great video! I get that the point of using the hammer is to find the hit point and the feel that goes with it. But when actually throwing a disc you need to be more mindful of angles, like not collapsing your shoulder for instance. How do you relate these drills to actual throws? For example, from the chest out, you are supposed to punch out (according to sb22). It's hard to do with a hammer and not even necessary but i should do so with a disc? I have tried doing field work concentrating more on swing/hit point/feel but i always fall back to my "form" to be able to control angles.
I think this is where I neither agree nor disagree with the angle advice as a coaching point - it depends on how its being used. It has its place and does seem to help some people, and probably is part of the advice that helped me figure out good hammer strikes. The hammer drills and hitting or slashing things is about teaching the entire body what to do and to find your natural swing paths. My shoulder angle is for instances much more like 145 degrees or so when I get the most power - my body type has a lot to do with that. If I let my pocket or shoulder angle collapse, my hammer swings are poor and there is some risk of hitting myself. So it also helps you find the natural angles and feel for them along the path, but mileage can vary depending on the developing player. When Sb22 talks about punching out, I think that's a coaching point to help you understand that as the hammer gets to the pocket, you are springing it back out (not muscling it, but swinging like a punch into the bag or a hammer). This is another reason actually hitting things with hammers helps me - I can immediately tell if I had a powerful, low-effort swing because of how the target and my body react. I can feel the hammer accelerating as it's exiting the pocket, and my arm is aiding it back out or "punching" it out. I emphasized that a little less here because some people misinterpret that and just start strong-arming it again. Instead, it's most like finding the right arm tension. I like how Shawn Clement describes this in the context of Golf, and why he likes to avoid using "active" or "passive" language. It's more like a flow of looseness and tension across the body that accumulates acceleration. I found it much easier to learn with the hammer. th-cam.com/video/ZPY-Bs5wkoo/w-d-xo.html
@@AceItDiscGolf Thanks for the reply! I actually just went out to the field with a hammer and slowly progressed to discs and got some really great throws with less effort! The nose angle gets harder to control imo but i probably just need to get used to it. I've seen the Shawn Clement clip before in the DGR forums ;) Keep up the good work!
@@tourian7801 Nice! I've had to throw out everything I thought I knew about angle control a couple times. In my experience it's helpful to work on smashing that hyzer angle and working your way back. McBeth has often mentioned to learn to throw as flat as though throwing across the top of the table, but there again the dude already had awesome baseball mechanics to work with, and he probably didn't have to learn how to "swing through" with the disc (educated guess of course).
@@AceItDiscGolf whats funny is that a year ago i used hammers to be more loose in my throws.. then i became TOO loose and have like a limp wrist so the disc just slips out.. now I'm going back to the hammer to find out when to actively grip the disc into the shot. Am I thinking about this properly? I tried using a hammer last night and it feels like once I plant my lead foot, I'm using my tricep to elbow check someone and then squeeze the hammer ( or actively grip the disc) to hit what's in front of me. Thank you for these videos man. I think it's important to hear these things multiple times and intentionally practice until it just "clicks" for the body
@@CyberDarkZero you should check out Shawn Clement's "ARMS ACTIVE OR PASSIVE IN GOLF SWING? WISDOM IN GOLF" video. IMHO it's more true to how the body should actually work when leveraging any sports instrument including discs and helped me stop worrying about the when/where questions and more about the flow of power across the body, including the arm and wrist!
My late arm mechanics seem pretty poor. I have a big issue with shoulder "guarding". At the last second in my throw, now matter how hard I try not to, I tend to "shrug" my right shoulder (throwing shoulder) up and tight. I think this may be a by-product of me trying to protect my shoulder, but I know it's robbing me of a lot of distance and screwing with my angles as well. Have you ever come across this / know how to address it? In any good form I see, the player's throwing shoulder looks pretty loose and able to freely move, but I find it very hard to replicate.
There can be many causes for this, but in my experience it's usually because the player (1) isn't backswinging correctly on the rear side, often involving the wrong tilt and leg action and (2) isn't landing directly on the front leg resisting collapse like an MLB pitcher, so the front hip drives everything up rather than swinging the shoulder forward toward the target, causing bunching. As usual, I've had versions of all of these issues myself!
What hammer should I buy and what should the weight of the hammer be? I need one too to do this. I need to find a space to hit something against as well like you have that boxing bag. I wonder if I can just go into boxing gym and use hammer there to do this :D
I think they're all useful in different ways. Light or even tack hammer if you're not used to swinging them at all to mitigate joint strain. Bigger claw hammer for general use. 3-5 lb mallet for fully body leverage and training heavy strikes on a target. That's the largest I use indoors. Full on sledgehammer if you're working outside and want to understand more about full body leverage. I don't think you should go over 10 lbs since that starts to get heavy enough that you start to function differently than disc golf.
Hi Ace It! Thanks a lot for your videos and sharing! I have a question concerning arm slots. You mention SL and GG have a lower armslot in general compared to PM. In this Shawn Clement video (th-cam.com/video/E8f7Lp3jmI4/w-d-xo.html ) he mentions how upright swings "more easily" can utilize ground forces. It seems to me that the lower arm slot makes a lot of sense with that in mind. U mentioned also in another video that both GG and SL utilizes more of this "natural" pronation and supination in the throwing arm. Could you elaborate on this topic? Is it necessary with this pro-sup of the forearm in the throwing arm with a lower armslot? For me with a ballgolf background pro/supination with a club in hand feels more natural then with a disc. Cheers from Sweden /Emil
Good thoughts and great video. Think of the upright swing as about the way the parts of the body align with each other and against gravity. The arm slot might first seem like it's just about the arm's relationship to the body than to the ground, but IMO there are more implications as you suggest: The low arm slot somewhere near the belly button seems to generally be an advantage for peak power. To swing correctly from that slot will tend to get your ground contact stacked up nice and compact. Anecdotally, it seems like the throwers that use high arm slots and get great power have exceptionally long levers (e.g., McBeth, Matty O). But you'll still see McBeth tend to lower the slot on a full mash. While I've been working on his door frame drill, Seabas22 recently reminded me that "the low man wins the leverage game" - just like judo, you want your center of mass to get low heading into the swing working with the rear leg - creating big time separation and lag, and working with gravity. If you also grab a door frame lower and shift against it (i.e., using the low arm slot), you can get a bigger separation and bigger drop with gravity. So there again is an advantage of the low arm slot. I think the pro-sup pattern is a matter of degree and depends on the body type and form. I've simplified learning it in my own form by just keeping the disc flight plate relatively parallel to the ground at the peak of the backswing and swinging it like a hammer into the release - this helps the arm naturally unfold in a pattern like a golf club swing. In general, I also think it's good to focus on the big motion patterns and posture of the body to make it easier to swing the arm correctly. My arm has started to move a little more like GG's over time on its own heading into the release, but I don't exaggerate the pronation like he does since I'm still working on some of the bigger pieces.
@@AceItDiscGolf Thank you for the quick and detailed answer! Since I discovered your and Seabass22 channel I have made incredible insights in my own form. I recently looked at some old footage of myself and wow... it was... different haha. Best regards, Emil.
Thank you for summarizing these fundamental swing concepts so concisely and thoroughly. The feeling-based approach of focusing on how much energy you're getting to the hit zone starting from your feet needs to be taught before everything else in my mind, because it's more fundamental than everything else.
Swinging the leg back counter balance is Ala Ken Jones. I like his form.
Ha too funny. You lost your disc in the basement!! Just like like playing on the course. 3 min rule or take a penalty.
Love your teaching style. You are studying the physics.
Thanks! Look for the counterbalances and you'll see them everywhere in top form. Appreciate that, I do take the actual swing physics seriously and try to boil it down as best I can.
Probably the most helpful video I’ve found on this subject! It never made sense in any other video really on how “to engage” your hips and I was just doing the spinning hips torque problem you talked about. But this is great I can’t believe this isn’t millions of views.
In video at 13:41 you said the disc wants to pivot out..? I’m not sure what you meant exactly by pivot out?
Unfortunately a lot of people are still teaching the hips wrong because they don't understand how it relates to the weight shift. And what's worse is that you don't really want to force the weight to shift - you want to allow it to happen as part of the swing. Shawn Clement in ball golf is the best instructor for learning this IMO. I'll talk about it more in my next couple short segments.
Pivot out - the disc will typically pivot off the index finger last in most grips. But when players actively try to pivot it off the index finger, they're losing that full leverage we want. Also, as you get better at the hammer-like swing, the disc will want to pivot out & release early because you're adding more force. So by "resisting" the pivot, I'm talking abou trying to maintain grip on it like you would a hammer rather than letting it pivot or slip out early.
Just today I was focused on my hammer swings on the course and I was getting tons of early releases because I was getting more late acceleration. So I had to focus on not letting the disc slip & keep swinging the hammer through the release point. This stuff really helps.
This was extremely helpful thank you!!!
Thinking about slashing through or hitting something is i think maybe not great visuals because I thought about hitting the object and trying to apply all the power into and stop.
I think a looser but more helpful visual would be driving a car. You get up to 60 mph and then coast until you roll to a stop.
Hey, thanks for commenting!
If one idea doesn't work, try another!
I will provide a bit more context in case it helps. I may be missing your intent, but the idea is not to hit something and stop. It is to hit or slash or drive through the release point like other high level athletic moves. You will hear this concept in most throwing and swinging sports. Not everyone responds well to a given version of this idea, however. For instance, I was trying to learn the "slash through" version, but it wasn't until I hit a physical object that it "clicked" for me. But that's also probably because I had been doing martial arts for more than a decade and the idea of committing through a release point/hit point/whatever you want to call it was much more natural to my body when I physically struck something.
Thinking also did not help me. I had to try various actions until one "clicked." Unfortunately, I find it hard to predict which concept is going to work for a given person, but usually something closer to what they were already good at works faster (e.g., McBeth with baseball swings and throws, Josh from Overthrow with tennis, me from martial arts, etc.).
One thing I still find odd but worth mentioning is the "gestalt" of the move. In motor learning, bodies either tend to "get it" or not. Like when babies suddenly go from crawling to a rudimentary walk. I'm still very much a developing player, but I find it interesting that the "hammer/hit/slash/throw/punch through" part of the move is either there, or it's not. I can literally tell from throw to throw now. Good throws (high power/effort ratio and clean throws with good accuracy) have it. Bad throws don't.
@@AceItDiscGolf thank you so much for the reply. I realized from the way you were explaining it that my concept was incorrect.
I'll try to elaborate a bit. In my mind, I was hitting a steel door with an imaginary hammer. Because it's a steel door, all the power goes into the door and the hammer stops dead against the steel door and maybe leaves a dent in the door.
I think the better thought is that the door is made of plywood and instead of hitting an immovable steel door with a hammer, you blast through the plywood door, destroy it and the hammer swings all the way through the door.
I would really like some insight on another issue I'm having if you don't mind answering.
When I try to load my rear foot, it spins away from the target. Including a clip for reference.
th-cam.com/users/shortssPFl-kgUFhg?si=9hozV5JfBC6zJre5
@@samhowl1152 I think that was a keen insight: "the better thought is that the hammer destroys the plywood door."
Around the same time I was learning this part of the action, I literally hit plywood with a sledgehammer too (completely unrelated to disc golf). I'd say it is a similar feel. Just like my heavy bag, there's a little "give" in the target. I had the "ah ha!" moment when my little hammerhead punched clean through the bag with no effort. Air has negligible resistance and a lot of give compared to your arm, so it's maybe closer to smashing plywood than steel. What the plywood or steel give you is just physical feedback - it's a proxy for the real thing in air with the disc. Now kind of a philosophical question is whether the plywood is really different from steel - you could still try to commit the blow through the steel to dent it like you said, but there is real immoveable resistance by sufficiently thick steel. I guess however you think about it, discs aren't hammers, but the "slash/smash through" is accessing whatever that "striking through" effect is in your body and brain. I've seen enough people struggle with this so I'm not sure any one thing works for 100% of people.
Your clip: it's rotated sideways for me, but it looks like you are kind of spoiling the leverage as you x-step and turning your hips fully back away. Instead, you want it to work more like running sideways 100 yards.
You could try this drill:
proxy.imagearchive.com/e80/e80b27bbed4ecb4168411b0b05ef7e61.gif
Also seabas22 Hershyzer drills.
Advanced X-step is very difficult to learn, take a piece at a time & hang in there!
When I do that it feels like I don't have enough time to turn my torso back. I see what you mean about getting a leveraged feeling from it though. How do I turn back while doing that? Mine kinda looks like the demonstration where he's not getting much torso rotation either.
Collapsed elbow is a major energy leak.
Great stuff, well done.
Hey, I saw you on DGCR and crushing it! Very inspiring. How's your DG going now?
Totally, and limp-wristed suckers like me really benefit from hammers, especially if you're not used to swinging clubs, rackets, baseball bats, etc.
Hey,
Ive reached a plateau so im trying different things every week to check the effect of the changes i do and its value.
But having a decent throw is not even half of the work that has to be done to become a proffesional.
But im training 2-5 hours everyday, trying my best to become better.
I like your channel and how you simplify things, when seabas22 is coaching me i find myself asking the same question a few times.
Awesome, I'm hoping to see you out there!
I'll always fully credit the OG since I couldn't have learned any of this without him. Glad my way of summarizing some things is helpful. Always gotta be willing to experiment a little to grow!
Keep it up!
Hammer Time!!!
You know it!!! 😀
First, good video, I liked the thorough explanation. Second, maybe drill a hole in the handle and tie a strap for your wrist if it is flying out of your hand?
Can do that - I would be cautious once the hammer is somewhat heavy because it can be dangerous also swinging back around at you 🙂
Really good videos...
Amazing video buddy
Great video!
While doing this drill are you thinking about pivoting on your heel or the ball of your front foot?
TL;DR: land on the toe and let the pressure flow to the foot outstep and pump up the leg, pivoting on the heel. It's ok to come back over on the ball of the foot in follow through but generally the toe-heel action and heel pivot is safer. Notice this action in Simon when he throws his power hyzers, just like my hammer swing into the bag. More to say:
Admittedly I already don't think about it anymore, and it just kind of happens depending on the shot. But I did initially have lots of leg problems and needed to learn to get my calves more involved and land more toe-heel on my power hyzer shots at first. Toe-heel on hyzer helps you get more leverage off the front off the foot and protects the plant knee unless you have really pristine leg mechanics and control and can stay on the ball of the foot. It's also easier for lighter people.
For example, you'll see McBeth stay more on the ball of his foot for controlled shots even on hyzer, but remember he has very extreme anatomy and years of experience. He's short and quick with very long levers and narrow shoulders. He likes to swing through that high arm slot for control unless he's really mashing it.
I'm on the opposite extreme - tall and slow with short levers and wide shoulders. You could only make my body type worse for DG by making me shorter. I cannot generate much power on a shot without swinging in my low arm slot and using my full weight. I can only safely do that by pivoting on the heel in my case. So here's a recent standstill showing me barefoot so you can see how my feet are interacting with the ground. Notice how everything swings back and forth nice and effortlessly together like a flat pendulum and the disc accelerates late and quickly.
th-cam.com/video/oCU9zW66BlM/w-d-xo.html
@@AceItDiscGolf Thank you, that was a great explanation!
Thanks for another great video! I get that the point of using the hammer is to find the hit point and the feel that goes with it. But when actually throwing a disc you need to be more mindful of angles, like not collapsing your shoulder for instance. How do you relate these drills to actual throws? For example, from the chest out, you are supposed to punch out (according to sb22). It's hard to do with a hammer and not even necessary but i should do so with a disc? I have tried doing field work concentrating more on swing/hit point/feel but i always fall back to my "form" to be able to control angles.
I think this is where I neither agree nor disagree with the angle advice as a coaching point - it depends on how its being used. It has its place and does seem to help some people, and probably is part of the advice that helped me figure out good hammer strikes.
The hammer drills and hitting or slashing things is about teaching the entire body what to do and to find your natural swing paths. My shoulder angle is for instances much more like 145 degrees or so when I get the most power - my body type has a lot to do with that. If I let my pocket or shoulder angle collapse, my hammer swings are poor and there is some risk of hitting myself. So it also helps you find the natural angles and feel for them along the path, but mileage can vary depending on the developing player.
When Sb22 talks about punching out, I think that's a coaching point to help you understand that as the hammer gets to the pocket, you are springing it back out (not muscling it, but swinging like a punch into the bag or a hammer). This is another reason actually hitting things with hammers helps me - I can immediately tell if I had a powerful, low-effort swing because of how the target and my body react. I can feel the hammer accelerating as it's exiting the pocket, and my arm is aiding it back out or "punching" it out. I emphasized that a little less here because some people misinterpret that and just start strong-arming it again. Instead, it's most like finding the right arm tension.
I like how Shawn Clement describes this in the context of Golf, and why he likes to avoid using "active" or "passive" language. It's more like a flow of looseness and tension across the body that accumulates acceleration. I found it much easier to learn with the hammer.
th-cam.com/video/ZPY-Bs5wkoo/w-d-xo.html
@@AceItDiscGolf Thanks for the reply! I actually just went out to the field with a hammer and slowly progressed to discs and got some really great throws with less effort! The nose angle gets harder to control imo but i probably just need to get used to it. I've seen the Shawn Clement clip before in the DGR forums ;)
Keep up the good work!
@@tourian7801 Nice! I've had to throw out everything I thought I knew about angle control a couple times. In my experience it's helpful to work on smashing that hyzer angle and working your way back. McBeth has often mentioned to learn to throw as flat as though throwing across the top of the table, but there again the dude already had awesome baseball mechanics to work with, and he probably didn't have to learn how to "swing through" with the disc (educated guess of course).
@@AceItDiscGolf whats funny is that a year ago i used hammers to be more loose in my throws.. then i became TOO loose and have like a limp wrist so the disc just slips out.. now I'm going back to the hammer to find out when to actively grip the disc into the shot. Am I thinking about this properly? I tried using a hammer last night and it feels like once I plant my lead foot, I'm using my tricep to elbow check someone and then squeeze the hammer ( or actively grip the disc) to hit what's in front of me. Thank you for these videos man. I think it's important to hear these things multiple times and intentionally practice until it just "clicks" for the body
@@CyberDarkZero you should check out Shawn Clement's "ARMS ACTIVE OR PASSIVE IN GOLF SWING? WISDOM IN GOLF" video. IMHO it's more true to how the body should actually work when leveraging any sports instrument including discs and helped me stop worrying about the when/where questions and more about the flow of power across the body, including the arm and wrist!
My late arm mechanics seem pretty poor. I have a big issue with shoulder "guarding". At the last second in my throw, now matter how hard I try not to, I tend to "shrug" my right shoulder (throwing shoulder) up and tight. I think this may be a by-product of me trying to protect my shoulder, but I know it's robbing me of a lot of distance and screwing with my angles as well. Have you ever come across this / know how to address it? In any good form I see, the player's throwing shoulder looks pretty loose and able to freely move, but I find it very hard to replicate.
There can be many causes for this, but in my experience it's usually because the player (1) isn't backswinging correctly on the rear side, often involving the wrong tilt and leg action and (2) isn't landing directly on the front leg resisting collapse like an MLB pitcher, so the front hip drives everything up rather than swinging the shoulder forward toward the target, causing bunching. As usual, I've had versions of all of these issues myself!
What hammer should I buy and what should the weight of the hammer be? I need one too to do this. I need to find a space to hit something against as well like you have that boxing bag.
I wonder if I can just go into boxing gym and use hammer there to do this :D
I think they're all useful in different ways. Light or even tack hammer if you're not used to swinging them at all to mitigate joint strain. Bigger claw hammer for general use. 3-5 lb mallet for fully body leverage and training heavy strikes on a target. That's the largest I use indoors. Full on sledgehammer if you're working outside and want to understand more about full body leverage. I don't think you should go over 10 lbs since that starts to get heavy enough that you start to function differently than disc golf.
Hi Ace It! Thanks a lot for your videos and sharing! I have a question concerning arm slots. You mention SL and GG have a lower armslot in general compared to PM. In this Shawn Clement video (th-cam.com/video/E8f7Lp3jmI4/w-d-xo.html ) he mentions how upright swings "more easily" can utilize ground forces. It seems to me that the lower arm slot makes a lot of sense with that in mind. U mentioned also in another video that both GG and SL utilizes more of this "natural" pronation and supination in the throwing arm. Could you elaborate on this topic? Is it necessary with this pro-sup of the forearm in the throwing arm with a lower armslot? For me with a ballgolf background pro/supination with a club in hand feels more natural then with a disc. Cheers from Sweden /Emil
Good thoughts and great video. Think of the upright swing as about the way the parts of the body align with each other and against gravity. The arm slot might first seem like it's just about the arm's relationship to the body than to the ground, but IMO there are more implications as you suggest:
The low arm slot somewhere near the belly button seems to generally be an advantage for peak power. To swing correctly from that slot will tend to get your ground contact stacked up nice and compact. Anecdotally, it seems like the throwers that use high arm slots and get great power have exceptionally long levers (e.g., McBeth, Matty O). But you'll still see McBeth tend to lower the slot on a full mash. While I've been working on his door frame drill, Seabas22 recently reminded me that "the low man wins the leverage game" - just like judo, you want your center of mass to get low heading into the swing working with the rear leg - creating big time separation and lag, and working with gravity. If you also grab a door frame lower and shift against it (i.e., using the low arm slot), you can get a bigger separation and bigger drop with gravity. So there again is an advantage of the low arm slot.
I think the pro-sup pattern is a matter of degree and depends on the body type and form. I've simplified learning it in my own form by just keeping the disc flight plate relatively parallel to the ground at the peak of the backswing and swinging it like a hammer into the release - this helps the arm naturally unfold in a pattern like a golf club swing. In general, I also think it's good to focus on the big motion patterns and posture of the body to make it easier to swing the arm correctly. My arm has started to move a little more like GG's over time on its own heading into the release, but I don't exaggerate the pronation like he does since I'm still working on some of the bigger pieces.
@@AceItDiscGolf Thank you for the quick and detailed answer! Since I discovered your and Seabass22 channel I have made incredible insights in my own form. I recently looked at some old footage of myself and wow... it was... different haha. Best regards, Emil.
You gave a shout to ebes22. Can you give us the link?