Stop WASTING your CHARIOTS! - Total War Tactics: Warhammer 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Chariots! A powerful tool in Total War Warhammer 3 when used correctly. Here, I shall show you how to use your chariots properly, and mow down everyone! Chariot Tactics are simple but effective.
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How am I supposed to do all this when I'm too busy zoomed right in watching all the cool units fight each other???
Save the replay and watch later.
"You could bring 2 or 3 if you think you can manage. Otherwise 1 is enough"
Slaanesh disciples: Here's an army with 12 chariots
Surtha Ek = Chariot lord and 19 chariots
@@DrDrozd12 BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION
@@TJRex01 Certainly beyond my ability to micro manage.
Tomb Kings be like
@@DrDrozd12 surthara bel-kek with chariot random perk. i had it once, were my fav army for field battles :D
chariots always felt unbalanced to me. Either they get stuck on one goblin, or blast through 5 units of braced halberdiers. I think CA oversimplified mass calculations, and made everything too similar. They also don’t lose any speed on contact which makes using them feel almost… fake
Same with calvary for me. A couple units always get stuck so you can’t cycle charge them properly and take way more damage than they should. Older total war games it wasn’t nearly as much of an issue. Though when thing like mass and unit delay to order changes from each game in the warhammer series I’m not surprised they have issues.
Chariots were kinda ass in WH2, im glad they are at least scary units in WH3
@@MrWyald
yes i never had any massive issues with cav charges and retreats in rome 1, which i keep playing today.
its nowhere near the problems we have in warhammer.
i personally used chariots in rome 1 to break enemy formations to make them a super easy target for cav.
i once annihilated a whole inf army with 1 units of chariots, 1 general cav and 1 javelin cav.
the chariots went through the infantry units, which then all got scattered and turned around to face the chariots, which at that moment got charged from their now exposed rear by my general cav.
this made them each run one by one very quickly, as these had poor army morale anyway...
i just hunted them down with my skirmish javelin cav.
Rome 2 get anything stuck and have a scythed cahriot is going to get a chance to break the 1k kill mark
@@MrWyald Shit getting stuck is like 90% of this game for me. Can't maneuver infantry because the unit has been spread out and caught on everything. Cavalry can't disengage. Single entities just stare at things and can't move. I have no idea why I have so much trouble with it when the larger community doesn't. When WH3 came out and people were talking about problems with unit responsiveness, I had no idea what had changed, because my units are always unresponsive and I hadn't noticed any difference in WH3.
My problem with them is the unit sticky-ness. You charge them in the prefect spot but they struggle to get through for some strange reason. Same with cycle charging for cav.
@MNatx was going to say the same. Click attack, they charge and as soon as they make contact, they stop like every other unit.... I'm sure in the other total war games it wasn't the case
@MNatx think that happens when they've been bad and need to go in time out corner 😂 yeah had that, also had tell a unit to go somewhere, take my eye off them for two secs, come back and they've stopped... this game is so buggy 😭
@MNatx i think not all chariots have the same mass and pushing power. Those beefy Korne ones he was using are prob near the top of bigger chariots, so can push in deeper. Lighter chariots might have to cherry pick even less dense unit formations to ram into.
My guess as a fellow chariot noob trying to read up on stuff to learn!
@@empiricalwolf1256 maybe you have guard mode on?
@@Lothi66 no, realized early on they've made it the default (unless anyone knows how to change this)
Collision between the models deals damage, same reason some vortexes are very strong.
EDIT only single chariot that i found was strong was settra the Imperishable, Khemrikhara, The Great King of Nehekhara, King of Kings, Opener of the Way, Wielder of the Divine Flame, Punisher of Nomads, The Great Unifier,...
guess we will have to admit that that Great King Settra the Imperishable amongst his many other well deserved titels is also the master of chariotters... SCRIBE! TAKE NOTE! *undead scribe sighs as only someone who has been a menial scribe for several lifetimes can and then he starts unrolling the giant pyparus roll*
Commander of the Golden Legion, Sacred of Appearance, Bringer of Light, Father of Hawks, Builder of Cities, Protector of the Two Worlds, Keeper of the Hours, Chosen of Ptra, High Steward of the Horizon, Sailor of the Great Vitae, Sentinel of the Two Realms, The Undisputed, Begetter of the Begat, Scourge of the Faithless, Carrion-feeder, First of the Charnel Valley, Rider of the Sacred Chariot, Vanquisher of Vermin, Champion of the Death Arena, Mighty Lion of the Infinite Desert, Emperor of the Shifting Sands, He Who Holds The Sceptre, Great Hawk Of The Heavens, Arch-Sultan of Atalan, Waker of the Hierotitan, Monarch of the Sky, Majestic Emperor of the Shifting Sands, Champion of the Desert Gods, Breaker of the Ogre Clans, Builder of the Great Pyramid, Terror of the Living, Master of the Never-Ending Horizon, Master of the Necropolises, Taker of Souls, Tyrant to the Foolish, Bearer of Ptra's Holy Blade, Scion of Usirian, Scion of Nehek, The Great, Chaser of Nightmares, Keeper of the Royal Herat, Founder of the Mortuary Cult, Banisher of the Grand Hierophant, High Lord Admiral of the Deathfleets, Guardian of the Charnal Pass, Tamer of the Liche King, Unliving Jackal Lord, Dismisser of the Warrior Queen, Charioteer of the Gods, He Who Does Not Serve, Slayer off Reddittras, Scarab Purger, Favoured of Usirian, Player of the Great Game, Liberator of Life, Lord Sand, Wrangler of Scorpions, Emperor of the Dunes, Eternal Sovereign of Khemri's Legions, Seneschal of the Great Sandy Desert, Curserer of the Living, Regent of the Eastern Mountains, Warden of the Eternal Necropolis, Herald of all Heralds, Caller of the Bitter Wind, God-Tamer, Master of the Mortis River, Guardian of the Dead, Great Keeper of the Obelisks, Deacon of the Ash River, Belated of Wakers, General of the Mighty Frame, Summoner of Sandstorms, Master of all Necrotects, Prince of Dust, Tyrant of Araby, Purger of the Greenskin Breathers, Killer of the False God's Champions, Tyrant of the Gold Dunes, Golden Bone Lord, Avenger of the Dead, Carrion Master, Eternal Warden of Nehek's Lands, Breaker of Djaf's Bonds... and many, many more
I recall in Rome TW2 instead of a attack order I just issue a move order throughout a engaged enemy battle line. 300+ kills for the chariot unit.
Good times :3
Rome 1 was even more broken. Both the scythed chariots and the elephants could just keep continually keep running in charge mode if you just keep clicking another unit to attack. I have taken out the senate with just a unit of elephants.
I would use cheapest pikemen available together with some other trash units as meatshields, then went ham by controling elephants in first person mode. It was so inefficient but fun! I loved it
Good point about them being micro-intensive. I'd be super grateful for some videos showing army builds of different levels of micro intensity - so I can start with the easier ones and graduate to the higher ones as I get better. At the moment I don't really know what sort of units require more micro than others.
IMO that would be something like that (from low micro to high micro)
- Ranged units (as long as they are protected and with enemies in sight they shoot, you may only order them to focus fire on a lord or to move once your main lines have been broken)
- Melee infantery
- Beasts monsters (You would want them to keep away from ranged units and anti large)
- Magic heroes/ magic lords
- Skirmishers (like black ark corsairs or free company militia, need to be constantly in range of enemies and on the move to prevent being charged)
- Cav & Chariots (Always have to babysit them plus they may loose vigor quickly due to all the moves they requires making them less efficient)
Artillery spam is the easiest of all
@Champu battery fire is a good go, but does struggle to deal with high armour melee inf, they'll punch right through unless you have a good frontline to hold them
3:50
This is why I want a co-commander/spectator mode in this game.
It is so much fun giving command of a micro intensive unit to someone else as it then feels like a true battle. There're even great tools to tell another person what you want with the three default lines. I was co-commanding a Setra army and as I dealt with the front line the person playing Setra used Setra on a chariot along with other chariot units and had a blast.
Really fun in Multiplayer.
@@yourmajestythegoldentoilet6744 *NatSoc
Try out the AI general 3 Warhammer mod. Its actually pretty good for that @Excursor
It's called coop campaign
@@-V-_-V- Where in the menus does that exist
I always thought comboing a chariot with cav/ dogs is really strong. You scatter the unit with a chariot and follow up with cav. The spread out unit has a massive area of contact and every cav model can attack. Also that way you can tie up archer units so they cant crossfire. Just take care to not pull through your own cav, i thought only slanesh could cause that kind of pain.
First, giggity.
Second, I never thought about using cav/dog like that as a cleanup crew. Don't really know how effective it is, due to the irritating tendency of all units to stop once one model hits one enemy model.
God, that mechanic pisses me off. Most of unit sits on their hands while one guy is fighting one enemy model.
I once befriended a tomb king as dwarfs and got some chariots. It was fantastic. I'd set up shield lines around a cluster of ranged units, set all on guard, and then spend the entire battle microing the chariots to great effect and occasionally check in on the dwarfs to make sure the ranged units were facing something to shoot. Keep some cannons with FaW off in case the enemy has giant flying monsters.
I ended up doing less micro this way then with regular army builds and could beat anything.
I suck so hard at chariots and calv. Thanks for this. Maybe one day I'll actually finish a Brettonia campaign. But probably not.
For the Lady, my brother.
Peasants all the way....
I refuse to use more than 1-2 cav max in warhammer 2 since all they do is get 1-2 units stuck and then the whole formation can't move/run away and gets wiped out
I got like 1500 hours and haven't even attempted a Brettonia campaign..
I sucked at good cavalry usage for the longest time in WH1 and 2, still Bretonia worked pretty well for me, since a lot of their knights are actually really good in prolonged combat, so it is not as bad to leave them in the enemies flank sometimes.
Nowadays Bretonia is still one of my all time favourites tbh.
Does anyone else think that these high mass, small unit count entities have too much ability to run through infantry lines and gun it straight for your missile line? I've noticed that, unlike in Warhammer 2, monsters, cavalry and chariots ALL just somehow make it through any infantry line like they're wading through ankle-high water and can never get pinned down. (ex. Dragon Guard, Slayers, Gnoblars, etc.) Most enemy armies have A LOT of these units and the only counter to these high mass units are other high mass units. But some factions don't really have that many great options OR some players just don't really want to field that many cav units in their armies.
I don't know. I just feel that mass of these units are overtuned. I'm glad that CA is supposedly fixing the AI targeting the back line every time for version 1.3, but I feel that CA should also make it so spears/halberds have a bit more stopping power for monsters and cavalry and NOT just get tossed around like paper dolls with every charge they take. Thoughts?
Edit: Oh, and of course, this somehow only pertains to when the AI uses cavalry, monsters and chariots. When the player uses these units however, every unit just gets stuck like glue on like one model which somehow keeps the entire unit pinned down unless you focus on them for a while to right-click move them until they're finally out.
I strongly agree with you, spears/halberds should have much more mass especially after they brace.
@@djadri_z8964 I was expecting CA to make spear units better at taking a charge and holding units in place since they even added an indicator stating if a unit is braced or not. I guess that was me just speculating.
One thing I noticed though is that units easily going past melee lines isn't exclusive to cavalry and monsters. AI melee troops ALSO go through your troops pretty easily. I don't know how many times I've had Bloodletters and Daemonettes just ignore my Celestial Dragon Guards just to hit the Crane Gunners behind them. Maybe it's formation attack?
@@yumisynthia942 idk man, all i know is that sadly spears/halberds cant do their work, is hilarious when i see a unit of cav charging to a braced halberds wall, irl those horses would have been obliterated in the charge, sadly in this game infantry cant do the job they should be doing.
I dont know... If they tune down the mass of cavs/chariots/monters they are gonna be litteraly terrible. I get your points about anything huge in WH 3 seem to be able to slug it way ''easily'' pass your own units but I feel like the real fix should be to give cavs/chariots/monsters a HUGE increase in momentum for let say 3-5 seconds (depending on their ranks or whatever) againts infantry so they dosent end up murdered in a blob (mostly for cavs/chariots) BUT make their mass less relevent to help them slugh their ways out once the charge timer is over. so in a way make their charge devastating (compared to now where cavs sometimes just hit a wall right away then proceed to die.)
TW serie always had issues with this to be fair. in some titles cavs/chariots (big units in general) melt an infantry line like butter and in others it just feel like hitting a brick wall. in WH 3 it feel like a weird mix where 1) your cavs will hit a wall unless it super light units target 2) your chariots too but to a lesser extent if you use them well 3) monters will do fine depending on their animation 4) BUT monters (on monster infantry) seem to just.. dont really care about the ennemy unit mass
@@djadri_z8964 It was a tad bit better in Warhammer 2 though. I feel like they wanted to make cav better for game three so they just made it so cavalry don't have to deal with their in-game counter and have them just go right through them lol
I think you forgot to mention to use the attack order when your chariot are charging from unit to unit to keep their charge animation going.
Most of the time when you tell a chariot to go through a unit and it get stuck, it's hard to make it move but if you use the attack order on another unit the chariot tend to start its charge animation or go through the unit easier.
The same thing applies to heavy cavalry funnily enough, I had two units of gryphon legion as Kislev going up against several armies worth of skaven slaves.
After hitting the first unit I would charge a unit some distance away causing them to go into another charge animation through the first unit and into the second.
Rince and repeat until both units had around 2000 kills each (My army was mainly holding the line but still very impressive)
Afaik unit mass increases when they adopt their charge animation, that's probably why this works.
Infantry units can also brace against charges to increase their mass, which is why it's better to charge a moving unit that hasn't had time to brace, that's something else I think is quite important that wasn't covered enough in the video
@@Luke-tt3dtInfantry are usually better off counter charging cavalry to get their own charge bonus. It's only better for infantry to brace if they specifically have charge defense vs large or all.
I wish chariots had an auto mode kinda like skirmishing units, you tell them to attack a unit and it will charge, stay for a second or two, then pullout and repeat
i have llike 3k hours playing total war...... mostly warhammer..... and until right now! literally RIGHT NOW! i never fully understood how to use chariots...... they always got messed up when i tried to use them. Thanks!
Yes, same here. It is as if Creative Assembly completely SUCKS at explaining how their game works beyond : "press W to move the camera forward and S to move it backward. (hooray...)"
It'q kinda the obvious logically way to use a chariot...
Sadly cav and chariots in TWH3 feel awfull (like most of units tbh) cauz of responsiveness mainly and pathfinding.
@@nash6055 personally when i tried to run then through they always got stuck and died or lost a ton of health.
You didn't mention how a downhill charge can result in instakills as result of fall damage. I think it's even possible to kill a footlord that way.
This channel is literally the best one for total war. I learned a lot more than any other channel that i watched. You're the best bro, keep up!
Back in WH2 when I used to play I loved the Gorebeast chariots, I have 3 of them, plus knight lances and a metal wizard as my support. Between Chaos lances and plague of rust you could clean up anything sent to intercept your chariots and Chaos Chosen being so simple I could just chuck them in and micro the chariots all I wanted.
5:56 They should add this to the Winter Olympics
I've no idea what the purpose of it would be, but it looks well fun
Man, I really appreciate you. You're one of my favorites. Quality work, great explanations, silky smooth voice. I've always been wary of chariots, but I'll give them another shot now.
One of the things that no one ever say about this kind of thing in tutorial videos is what the precise input comes are that you're supposed to give. "Attack command and run away" "charge in and pull back/run through". No one says "click here, and then click here because this gives the desired effect, and here is why". So thank you. I wish more tutorials for all kinds of games went into this. Does double right clicking a movement past an enemy have the same effect as charging and then running through
Even better is when one of your chariots or cav decide to say hi to the enemy and the rest of the unit stretches out and starts walking around as they are consumed by infantry because 1 model got stuck or trapped or something.
this was very helpful to understand this unit. for a beginner, chariots seems pretty expensive and useless if handled like a cavallery charge. thank you for the video
Bacause infantry in this game are made of popcorn
Great video; I've been one of those "just leave em in for a few seconds" sub-optimal players for a long time. Looking forward to trying it right in my next campaign :)
I actually learned this lesson by myself, using Seeker and Chaos Chariots with Be'lakor. Seekers are a great unit to learn the tactic on, since there's no deceivingly high armor stat to confuse you as to whether you can leave them to their own devices. That, and I figured with such low unit count, the model weight is gonna be good for going through things.
Chariots are so fun to use, assuming they're used right. fun to plan out the attack, then sit back and watch the flying infantry.
Thanks you for sharing your experience, its hard for new players to figure out the tactic.
Why infantry has to fly so far away? CA has to fix this
They did, infantry used to not fly at all and the chariots got stuck every time.
Just wanted to say thank you. Happened to watch this just before doing a Tomb Kings campaign and there's no way I'd have used the chariots if I hadn't seen this, I would have rear-charged, left them there and assumed they were trash. Instead they were my favorite early-game units. Really appreciate this and I've enjoyed the chariots enough that my next campaign will be N'Kari, so thank you!
Makes sense, its like driving a car by standing still..of course you wanna keep moving to take advantage of a vehicle.
What do you think about bringing 2 chariot units and moving them together as one unit throughout the battle? Means less micro than 2 seperate chariots but will it do enough extra damage to be worth bringing the 2nd one?
Nice question. I would like the answer as well
If i use chariots, it is in pairs. Lock their formation to be overlapping and filling eachothers gaps. Then when they charge chey can hit almost every model in a unit.
You saw his gorebeast chariot cut the marauders in half, leaving rows of them alive and kicking. Fill those gaps with more chariots for a 1 hit kill/route.
Also 2 chariot units can often beat up isolated heroes and lords pretty well.
IT works for Tomb Kings; they get double the models and half the mass and it works fine. Double hte models and same mass should work better.
It's bad because if chariot models ever touch they both come to a dead stop. Two, one like 20-30m in front of the other, can be okay, but it's still clunky.
Just be careful with two or more chariots. If they collide with each other, they stop each other’s movement and spoil the charge.
So if you give several chariot units the same target, it will often result in less damage overall because of these “bumper car” issues. Best to either give them different targets or stagger their timing so they don’t collide with each other.
What is the mechanical difference between ordering my chariot to attack and then to move, compared to just telling it to move beyond the unit from the start? Do I lose the charge bonus entirely?
Yes. You may get some collision damage, but you lose out on the charge attack. Units have a charge animation and gain some speed during the charge and this only activates with an attack order.
There's also fall damage in WH3, so running chariots downhill vs infatry will do more damage than on plains. There's a video of DameOffensive running into infantry with Nkari downhill and killing a whole army just from fall damage while battle stats shows almost no kills.
@@nveresdf I found out about fall damage by speed boosting an Aluress chariot off the hills on a Cathay map. Had to watch the replay to work out where it went.. just crashed and burned :(
th-cam.com/video/a_K7JYDJ-Ag/w-d-xo.html
You do 0 damage with Slaanesh chariots, slightly more than 0 with other chariots, when using move orders.
I always felt that chariots were a gamble I never felt super comfortable with, and require a ton of micro managing. If I do have one, I usually end up having them chase after broken units. Even if they can’t kill them cause monster units or something, if they keep a dangerous unit broken till it flees off the map, great. If they wipe it out, better. Then they can get back where I need them as soon as possible after.
I know chariots aren't meant for sustained melee, but I think it's pretty sad how most of them are beaten by _missile units_ if in prolonged melee. If you don't know what I'm talking about, take a melee chariot unit, charge into a missile unit, and then leave them there. Against skavenslave slingers they'll win, but against Quarellers, Free Company Militia, Deepwood Scouts, and many others they'll actually lose.
Doesn't that just make sense? Two guys standing in a cart, surrounded by a ton of people. You can wear armor and swing weapons all you like, eventually you'll be dragged out and torn apart.
Those units you mentioned are decent in melee.
Three chariots, six guys, vs 120? In melee, while standing still, it's just a guy on an elevated position with some hard cover, fighting dozens on all sides. In real life climbing into a chariot is a real thing.
The trick to using them on missile units is to know that those units can't fire until everyone gets back in formation. You can stop them ever contributing to the battle if you keep knocking them around like that.
@@SeventhSolar 💯 true
my problem with Calvary is that once you tell them to leave an engagement if they take even one hit the whole unit breaks orders and stays in the fight leading to a lot of micro-management that waste of time can change the fight outcome and is better spent on archers and inf.
I'm in two minds about the fact that charge bonus no longer factors into the charge damage. It leaves chariots with this weirdly inflated stat that doesn't to anything and causes new players to over-estimate their melee prowess.
it doesnt add damage??
@@cobrazax among a whole slew of other changes, the last patch of Warhammer 2 (the 'cavalry update') removed charge bonus from the charge impact damage calculation. Now the impact damage is only calculated based on mass and speed. The charge bonus is still added to the unit's melee attack and weapon strength for a short while after charging, though, and many units had their mass increased to keep the damage roughly the same as before.
However, counter-intuitively, this means chariots - many of whom actually have pretty poor melee attack stats - are now holding onto a very inflated stat which almost doesn't benefit them at all, which might trap newer players into leaving them in melee and scratch their heads at their lack of efficiency.
This also means regular Chaos Knights now deal the same damage on the charge as their lance variant, in spite of being cheaper, having shields and having better combat stats. In other words, regular Chaos Knights are pretty much strictly better than lances for cycle-charging.
The lance variant will still have a higher dps if you leave it in combat for a little bit, but it'll also take more damage. So it's pretty much only better for stuff like counter-charging enemy cavalry or single-entities where the added weapon strength from their obscene charge bonus won't be overkilling models.
@@SleepyFen
i dont understand. i know the charge bonus should add to melee attack AND weapon strength, making u do way more damage.
i dont know anything about mass and charge impact damage. i dont think charge bonus should really affect those anyway...
@@cobrazax most chariots don't have good melee attack animations and only rely on the impact damage from their charge to do damage. They have a high charge bonus because this used to add damage to their impact damage, but now that it no longer does, the stat is wasted on them since you don't want them to stick around in melee pretty much ever.
@@SleepyFen I'm not sure games should be balanced around predicting what noobs might do. I mean sure, don't do things blatantly unintuitively, but are you saying that IF someone chooses to leave them in melee combat for whatever reason you don't think they should benefit from a good charge bonus?
Thank you. Never really used chariots but always wanted to
Great vid. Chariots are one of the least used units in the game - yet one of the most important. Aside from being able to cleanup chaff very effectively - they are quite good to pair with monstrous lords in gooning attempts (Taurox, Throgg, Kholek). The lord does the damage while the chariot absorbs damage in the SE battle or provides an extremely effective roadblock against the enemy SE from retreating. The best chariots in the game are 750 gold ones - Tuskgors, Chaos and Maurader (NRS).
I almost always run my chariots in pairs. My goal is to have the second unit ready to charge or run interference if the first unit gets in trouble. Having two means every time one is withdrawing the other is starting its charge. It's relatively easy to control because I treat them as one large unit.
One of my favorite sights is two units of chariots driving in wide circles on one flank, cutting through the army like a buzz saw
Question: Do you have to use an attack command into the battle, and then a second command to get out, or could you simply do a move command that goes through enemy units? I guess another related question is whether you get a charge bonus if your unit is just moving and it comes across enemies on its path.
I dont think they will initiate a charge without an attack command
Since units tend to sort themself before following your orders, you better give the order to charge another nearby unit, then when out let them move away.
Otherwise they die while discussing who is the left flank this time.
Exactly what I was doing with Elephants in Rome Total War about 15 years ago :)
Geat video. I learned all this hard way in my last setra campaing on SFO mod.
ABC: Always be Charging
Honestly this is a good video for any Total War Noob trying to understand any shock cavalry
Tbh I only used chariot units with Settra (himself) and the princes (heroes) and I found out that you can actually do the movie thing when you just go at the edge of enemy unit formations (hitting them pretty much with half of your hitbox) and just peel their army as a potato if there is a nice line without Settra ever being forced to stop. He does lesser dmg then if you just right click the enemy formation to charge I guess but he still does dmg (or at least it seemed to me he does, he definitely pushed the enemy to ground), which there is often if you have lot of infantry and enemy as well which is often the case in campaign. But this obviously works only with single entity units, like Settra.
I remember I absolutely hated chariots until Grom the Paunch came out.
After he came it felt like they really improved how chariots felt since he himself was a really good chariot unit.
Many chariots previously had nowhere near enough mass to be fun to use and could barely push through a single infantry unit, I think the basic Norscan chariot is still like this.
TK skelly chariots. Those extra models and the fact that they are super replaceable mean that they're just amazing. Damage is stellar early game and respectable late game, and if you screw up and they die it's literally nothing lost.
In WHII, most chariots weren't that great imo. They were usually difficult to get or replace in campaign (I dunno how expensive they are in multiplayer), and they did only "okay" damage for the time and micro investment. In WHIII after the collision update chariots are strong as hell, and easy enough to get for some factions (Nkari starts with a hellflayer and disciple armies always seem to have them, Khorne has easy access at tier 2 or 3, Kislev has cheap and effective light war sleds etc)
My guess is when immortal empires comes the new collision system will be hella good for some of the more mediocre chariots.
In WHII, as the other guy said, Tomb Kings chariots are good early game at least and they are okay late game, although you're probably better off with archer spam or single entities by that point imo. Like I said I expect there will be a lot more good options later when they're part of WHIII.
In WHIII, I like the Slaanesh chariots because their speed and damage is top tier. Kislev ones are good too, because guns and armour piercing missiles which Kislev mostly lacks.
Tuskgor Chariot is easily the best in MP. Vanguard + AP + 80 armor @ 750 gold. And synergizes extremely well with the Beastmen. Chaos Chariot is second best with 110 Armor. It shrugs off spear units. Best application of Chaos Chariot is probably into WE on full mobility builds. Couples insanely well with dogs.
This video made me want to use chariots. I’ve always understood the concept but seeing that performance it looks to be worth the time to micro them.
I am using them very rarely in campaigns:
- expensive, often high tear
- requires a lot of micro, I can make better use of artillery or heroes within this time
- very situational area of application (no sattlement battles, no strong range unots or any cavalry/fast hero at enemy army)
Just wanna say thanks for the underappreciated correct pronunciation of melee. Whenever someone says mee-lee it makes something clunk and shudder in the depths of my brain
Thank you so much for making this video. I always loved chariots in medieval and fantasy warfare, but I totally suck at using them in Total War. Videos like this one is exactly what I need.
Also, I guess having 7 chariot units in a single Tomb Kings army is probably excessive. 😅 But mighty Settra needs a legion of chariots!
Every time I’ve ever used chariots was during updates where chariots weren’t good. I tried them out when they had mass issues, I tried them out when they had no collision damage. I’ve never had any worthwhile moments with them
The TK chariots are so good in campaign but I've never had a good experience with any other
Make use of the shift key, and click drag to draw multiple movement orders. Have the chariots run a figure eight in the distance, with several laps so you can glance away. Than utilize clicking unit cards, so you can quickly jump to and from the chariots and army. I can have a heavy war sled, run a figure eight in front of an advancing army by themselves. Just time the runs to stay ahead of the enemy and youre good. When your armies clash have your chariot get behind and start shaving back line units of the enemy while your meat sheilds defend your main army.
Great video. I fire them and forget all the time. I use chariots rarely but when i do i use them to disrupt front lines so my line can avoid any charge defense from the other sides. Then use cavalry and fast infantry to flank. I use khorne a lot so this tactic is fitting.
I'm not really trying to utilize the charge bonus. I just brought six skeleton chariots in Settras army and a prince on a chariot and settra on the chariot of the gods.
Just a lot to manage
yeah, too much
@@samarkand1585 too many chariots? No I think not.
@@partydean17 chariots but not using charge bonus? No I think not
@@samarkand1585 I worded that wrong I was referring to his "stay 10 seconds" thing
It's just so clunky to extricate a unit from an engagement once it stops. they'll just randomly turn around and attack again sometimes, or not turn around at all.
The Slaanesh Chariots are insane. They might be the best melee-only chariots in the game
I find the best way ro use chariots is when the battle lines are engaged and ideally the enemy cav is dead. While you wait for that go for easy pickings but dont take risks. Archers tend to run away so you dont get stuck that often. When archers are scattered, try to chip away with u turns from the back of the infantry line. Dont go deep, in the best case you end up on your side of the battle line and you have to travel all the way around your battleline. Chariots are high risk /high reward and are very easy to screw up. Apart from the things mentioned in the video watch out for crossfire. Chariots may have armor but dont let that fool you. Volume of fire can be devastating and is the best anti large in the game. Especialy minotaurs are a hard caunter to chariots to them, as well as (elite) cav.
I guess the problem is that relatively few factions have chariots but nearly everyone has cavalry and they don't work remotely the same even though you'd think they would. I swear cavalry don't do any damage or barely any damage from contact but it seems the chariots do damage just by running over people. To make things more confusing, the Marienburg landship doesn't seem to do damage running people over despite being larger and heavier than any chariot so you really need that experience to know that chariots don't need to stop and perform attacks like cavalry always seems to need to do.
Wow, I really needed this video. Thanks for the information
I always just issue move orders past the units I'm trying to hit. Works great.
But the way this functions in general means melee chariots are basically useless vs missle chariots. A little less impact from the missle ones, but they're also shooting enemies throughout their entire attack, so you get a lot more damage overall.
Only chariots I've seen that hold up okay leaving them in melee are the HE Lions.
Orc main here. I've always been fascinated by cav and chariots, and I really want to learn them, but I just can't seem to make the micro work.
orc cav and chariots suck. 1100 for a 22ma/22md/45charge unit. lol what garbage
@@tomatoesofdoom i still want to learn chariots, and i still love orcs
Still wish CA would have added a "Charge Through" ability you could turn on for chariots, so they weren't such a pain to micro.
Thank you very much. As always - very detailed and clear explanation. Awesome!
i was always bad at micro, tbh i havn't used chariots since rome 1, great video maybe ill give it a go, great vid either way
Play Grom the Pauch, use nothing but chariots and pump wagons, never stop charging. Just constant running em over tactics. Don't worry about micro: it's all one group, one big mass of movement
Honestly Total war troy actually had a good chariot system, the chariots would run out and back in on their own without needing to micromanage them. CA kept throwing out total war games with some good additions and just not making full use of those systems in future games.
That's the correct use of elephants and chariots in Rome 2 too, charge in, the order to Pass through
Actually you don't have to charge, only ordering to move through, does the job well
I just want to point out if its a bunch of typical archer units instead of melee units you actually do want to keep the chariots in combat for a little bit longer. (by typical im talking stuff like darkshards or the empire archer units not like quarallers). archers dont really have good close range options and your chariot will almost certainly have better close range options where as if you pull through them you give the archer units time to recover and fire arrows at you.
I needed this clear explanation, thanks brother 👊
What is the main difference between chariots and cavalry? Bigger hitbox and more charge? The tactics sound like everything that cav wants to be doing anyway
Best way to use chariots ive found is to bodyguard any hero/lord thats on a horse/foot and use them as a shield then use them to run down fleeing units or to engage archers after the front lines clash. They should be one of the last units sent in. the AI likes to target chariots early as they are viewed as skirmishers
Whenever I see charge demonstrations I am reminded of how much we need BLOOD AND GORE back in the game...
I've needed this video for years
I think there need to be a chariot mod that let the chariot know how to cycle charge alone and you don't have to micro only look some time that they are not stuck
I like how he consistently calls them doggo units 🤣
What about Snotling Spiky Rollers? They shred armor permanently wiith their melee attack
So the question is, how do you stop 'em?
spears, and anti large cav or fast anti large monsters
@@zero5496 And how about Dwarfs?
No spears. No cav. No monsters.
Artillery and missiles are easily flanked and ridden through, so now what?
@@_Meriwether Either use slayers or try to burst them out with guns
@@CerSilen21 Have you _seen_ what happens to Slayers hit by chariots or cav?
They don't have charge defense.
So guns then, that's great. One single option, easily countered.
@@_Meriwether You can try and use heros, to stop/slow them and then countercharge with slayers. Slayers should never get hit with a charge.
Are all of the chariot units exceptions to the knock back problem? A huge problem with many monstrous single entities and cavalry units in the game is that they apply their knock back BEFORE they apply their damage… which means they end up doing zero damage with a LOT of their attacks because models are invulnerable during knockback animations. For an excellent example give Demon Prince Daniel the big hammer weapon and send him against an enemy general. watch as he sends that general flying with every hit but does ZERO damage.
knockback because of animations is not the same as charge knockback from chariots or tomb king statues. The former is an issue related to the invulnerability granted to units in the floor, and by the fact that animations are independant of hit calculation, meaning you could miss a hit and still send the target flying. The later is their actual intended way of damaging. while they do jabe attack animations, most of the damage comes from the speed and mass they collision woth
After 3.0 i found chariots to be really fun and good to use, but i don't put them in every army, can be neat for one or two but they require just a bit too much micro and i don't want to deal with it every battle
I only use chariots if they are starting units or regiments of renown in an emergency situation. And I always give them to my allies in a co-op game. Too micro intensive for my tastes.
I can't imagine the damage the Tomb Kings would do
they should add a charge and pull out mode where they do a charge and then go away and positioning facing the enemy charged ......... because when you are managing many chariot plus an army its difficult to prevent all chariots from turning around in melee
Figured out a lot of this from waaaay back in the Warhammer 1 days by using the Black Coach out of sheer spite and meme value and I can say: By Sigmar when you get that thing rolling it felt like cheating especially when combined with Raise the Dead and Invocation. Frontlines became a non-existent concept for my enemy in many a multiplayer and campaign match
I love these tutorial videos, thank you for uploading
Nice thats how i play my Black Coach too hehe. Love the flying units
I did this with some blood knights once, were I knew they could't get stuck in, but they flung around the empire troops that I was hopelessly outnumbered by. Vlad and issabella spent half an hour letting the doom music kick in while the blood knights did this cheesy stuff until the empire troops finally got tired of dying in droves.
It be cool to have another player be solely in charge of a Giant deployment of chariots
Finding those perfect angles at all time while his partner lays down some other well placed tactics
finally found explanation of how to use chariots. They seemed useless to me. Well, I knew that microcontrolling will increase their performance, but it works for heavy cavalry as well. Ok, i will try to measure again, since TW3 provides more info, it would be easier. Most likely I underestimated them because damage was distributed and frags were stolen :)
The Surtha Ek Joke killed me. Beyond your comprehension!
Attila Total War player here; should I be using elephants the same way? Is it better to keep them moving or should I let them fight for about 10 seconds before pulling them back? Also, should I be issuing attack orders on enemy units or move orders that go through enemy units?
Norsca elephants are monsters , use them in melee , attack great sword/dual sword/axe units
Doggo Units is now an official title as far as I'm concerned.
What about Ranged Attack chariots? Should they still be used to hit-run with constant charges, or better to stay just out of range to pepper with ranged attacks?
It depends, on multiple factors, really. Depends on the chariots, depends on the situation, depends on what you're going up against....
Some missile chariots' missiles are good damage, some are more there for "just that little bit extra" as they do normal chariot things.
Some missiles might be non-armor piercing while the main chariot damage is, so depends on whether you're up against armor or not.
Sometimes your missile can be used to soften up a bit larger targets but is much less effective against chaff mobs like goblins or zombies, where you might be far better off just charging.
Always wondered where to click with chariots. So i click on enemy, shift click somewhere else and that does the job? sometimes it feels like they get stuck even on just 1 troop of enemies and i have to spam click to get them to disengage.
I feel like mine usually get bogged down and won't go through even if I order them.
Btw I know the channel used gorebeast chariots of khorne as an example, but wouldn't slaanesh's top chariots be even better? Which are the best chariots right now?
Spears and halbards should hard counter chariots/cav - to the degree that charges have vastly reduced mass, and greatly increased damage reflected. Almost to the degree that a decent unit of spears being charged by chariots should kill a model if there are 4-5 spears being charged by it, and the spears are only tossed back a couple of ranks at most. Normal attacks shouldnt have a similar bonus, but for charges your impaling a 300kg horse on a very sharp spit.
Thanks for the guide
But one question...
"Attack click" is behind the enemy unit or "click on unit" and then go far away behind enemy unit? Because it looks they dont lost speed but its red line (attack unit)
I dont know but when i try both tactics my chariot (tomb kings) ALWAYS stuck
Video: Stop wasting your chariots
Me: I don't use it at all