OFF-ROAD TESTING PT2 - BATTLE OF THE MWD
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video we revisit MWD off-road testing. This time though we introduce two other competitors in the market, the Permobil M3 Corpus and the Dietz Sango Advance MWD. The TDX SP2 NB is unchanged from last time however the Q500M has been fitted with larger motors and big, 14" pneumatic tyres.
As before, we tried to put the chairs through environments that to some maybe considered their typical 'non urban' journey. This could easily be a clients dog walk, country park or local area so hopefully it's of some use to see how these chairs perform.
Naturally there are lots of variables to consider but as an isolated test, we think it was beneficial and transparent.
If you did require any further information on the chairs, please get in contact via the website or directly via our info email address.
Thank you for watching!
info@clinicalmobilitysolutions.co.uk
www.clinicalmobilitysolutions.co.uk
I’m 46 years old and I’m a proper chair user as I’m actually disabled, I’ve always pushed all my chairs to the absolute limit. I’m a massive fan of Mid-Wheel Drive chairs and hands down by far the best Mid-Wheel Drive Chair ever made will always be the Invacare Xterra GT, even 20 ish years after the Xterra has been discontinued the Xterra is still the best Mid-Wheel Drive chair. I keep buying second hand Xterra’s because no other Mid-Wheel Drive Chair has ever come close - every year I still pray someone will make a updated version of the new Xterra with the same huge drive wheel but it never happens which is nuts in so many ways and I’ll come back to as to why in a minute. When I see all Mid-Wheel Drive Chairs that have come out since the Xterra (even these chairs in this video) I just roll my eyes and laugh as they never come close and I know this as I’ve tested driven every single one of them…. One of the main features of the Xterra which made it so good is the huge drive wheel which helps in so many ways for example 1) Having a huge drive wheel makes the ride so much more comfortable and smoother… 2) Having a huge drive wheel works in tandem with the motors making the chair so more powerful that it can overcome tricky obstacles and bumps - just one wheel on my Xterra could even get over a raised drain at a old friends house down a narrow ish passage… 3) Having a huge drive wheel gives you great ground clearance which is so important, plus the huge drive wheel puts you at a great starting height sitting wise… The other four key features of the Xterra are the really tough thick frame - the high suspension springs - the max speed - and the really tough casing for the joystick and the controls. If you put all of this together you’ll get one hell of a epic all rounder chair which is even perfect for rock festivals in fields, plus the Xterra looks so dam sexy and even sexier with my Corbeau car seat on it… For me personally the Xterra only has just one flaw which is that the chairs frame was made a inch too small so you can’t put in bigger batteries in it. I live in Cornwall UK we have tons of hills and in my Xterra I can get 19 miles out of her. However my Puma S 40 has a frame which is a inch wider allowing much larger batteries to be fitted, on the same Cornish hills and the same route I can get 22 miles out of my Puma.
I’ve seen and tried every single Mid-Wheel Drive chair to date and every aspect of these modern Mid-Wheel Drive chairs are absolutely rubbish in many ways. Just watching this video I even spotted a design flaw in the red Invacare TDX SP2 NB I could’ve got a bush branch or a big twig stuck in the flappy moving wheel arches and as the arches move up and down I could very easily break them off the chair - EVEN the Permobil M3 Corpus has a dangerous design flaw purely based on this video - the back of the mudguards on the Permobil M3 Corpus massively sticks out and by doing so I could very easily hurt someone’s leg at a crowded gig / bar / club / party or even catch it on furniture and door frames (if I got the M3 the very first thing I would do is to saw off that sticky out part at the back of the mudguard)… Purely based on this video every chair have same 4 awful issues and is absolutely ridiculously rubbish in their own way and if you know what to look out for ie a seasoned wheelchair user like me you can instantly spot these bad issues from the mile away… The wheels and the suspension are tiny giving the user one hell of a bone shaker of a ride which you can easily see (if you don’t had Xterra sized wheels and suspension on the same terrain you would hardly notice it) - It’s a miracle that most of these chairs didn’t get grounded on something as due to the small wheels and the battery case these chairs have hardly any ground clearance. Also I’ve tried and sat in most of these and their style, these chairs are so low down you actually feel like a midget or a baby crawling as the world feels huge in comparison, also being so low down it’s really hard to see cars coming towards you. - Every single chair frame looks and feels weak flimsy and much narrower than the old Xterra so these chairs will have tiny batteries so you definitely won’t have many mileage. The only frame that was somewhat good was surprisingly the other red chair with the thin back wheels the Dietz Sango Advanced MWD - Again purely based on this video every single one of these chairs had one design flaw or more with the footrests, however the chairs with the silver aluminium armrests are absolutely the best on the market. - and Lastly every long term chair user knows having a Gyro on a chair is a must. - As I said earlier on I’m a huge fan of proper Mid-Wheel Drive chair but if this guys offered me my pick of any one of these chairs for free I would honestly turn them down, however I would ask if I could have a spot on the Overall Design Team as I could finally have a hand in a much needed revamp on descent Mid-Wheel Drive chair. To any chair manufacturer who might see this comment Please take my offer and knowledge seriously I’m actually offering my services for free to help you finally design a decent chair from the ground up. Thank you for your time, Kain Peake - you can contact me on my email kain@kains-torment.com
TDX SP2 is available with Gyro option, which they call G-Trac. As you stated, the lack of that feature on the model you had put it at a disadvantage.
Agreed, we did try to highlight that but maybe the test should be revisited at some point with a TDX that has G-Trac fitted. Thanks for getting in touch
Two things come to mind when considering a mid-wheel pwc. How it maneuvers in tight quarters (as compared to fwd or rwd pwcs) like in a van or non-ADA compliant bathrooms. Secondly, ride comfort using a 'working' suspension with a solid reputation of Reliability - Permobil and Quicke (Sunrise Medical) come to mind in my experience.
Nice comparison,i think FWD with the big tires in front go much better
Thank you for getting in touch, absolutely worth a comparison trial. We'll add that to the video list!
I'm hopefully getting the Q500 very soon, so it was nice to see it perform so well. I will unfortunately have the standard tyres on it, because I need solid tyres but I think I'll still manage, and I want the peace of mind of not having to worry about punctures.
Thanks for the comment Ash. Ah yeah, it should still perform well, the vibrations will increase and you'll have a slight reduction in traction but that will only be in extreme circumstances. No punctures is always a good thing!! Hopefully it arrives very soon, enjoy
Thx for your effort. Overall as a complete chair the Permobil M3 ist by far the best chair. For going a little bit offroad the Q500M has the better suspension on the front casters. The Sango hasn't front suspension at all, which is a big problem in a lot of situations on a daily basis. The TDX is not suitable for anykind of offroad stuff because the front suspension is only working together for both front casters. That's the real reason why it struggled that much. Other thing is the technically completly wrong position of the motors. They are so close to the ground in a lot of situations where the suspension is working. As a main chair there isn't any brand out there coming close to a Permobil and there are a ton of reasons for it. If it need to be a bit cheaper, I would pick the Q500M. Thanks for the video!
Thank you so much for getting in touch Sandro and for your feedback. Always nice to hear from the viewers!
a bounder 300 from 21st century scientific would run over top all of those chairs lol. the problem with permobil chairs is permobile has their own propriety rnet programing an parts an way over prices. so no oem programming
You didn't test the Magic Mobility Frontier V6 or Magic 360 both would eat those chairs for breakfast over that ground.
Yes, they absolutely would! The point of the exercise is to demonstrate the chairs potential limitations, some providers would sell these as 'rough terrain capable'. However, from the video, you can quite clearly see that although some of them made it through, it certainly wouldn't be a comfortable ride! The V6 and 360 would be a far better MWD option. Thank you for getting in touch!
And you didn't test the 21st Century Scientific Bounder, or the Amylior Alltrack, both of which are serious off road contenders.
I have the q500m chair it is good gets me about it wont go everywhere but things do have a limmit although the paths are terrible around where i live with hardly no droped kirbs around
I have travelled approximately 40.000 km (2015-2023) in my Invacare Tdx sp2 although I too have gotten stuck of I misjudged the surface of the soil. If I am going through Loose gravel or lighter mud, my husband push on the back, because of the inability to drive straight forward.
Thank you so much for getting in touch. You're absolutely right, being aware of the limitations of the chair is very important, thank goodness you have your husband to push you through difficult situations!
Pneumatic tires need more maintenance. Do all four wheelchairs have these tires?
Needing to compare these wheelchairs in a comparison table. And any other wheelchairs that we might consider.
Viewed from the Australian Capital Territory, by myself, a severe Traumatic Brain Injury survivor, from a car accident, 38 years ago, when only 34 years old.
Imagine someone with a bad back going over that bumpy terrain because there isn't sufficient suspension to give you a smooth ride You'd think in this day and age they could build them to a far better more comfortable style of chair & you talk of all terrain I have a ST6 ranger it's advertised as an all terrain scooter but I wouldn't dear to take it where a can take my series3 landrover witch is an all terrain vehicle
I have a TDX SP it's terrible in anything off-road I'm waiting on my M5 to come in that thing rides so smooth it would probably be pretty good off-road.
Thank you for getting in touch! Yes, the TDX didn't perform particularly well. Increase the base size, wheels and motors will always be very beneficial. Hope you have lots of fun with your M5!
Congratulations - quite a power wheelchair! I'm close to getting the '23 F5. It was recommended by the man at Permobil because caster flutter isn't as intrusive as the M5, though my preference is the mid-wheel configuration. Both chairs (M5, F5) use two pole motors and have a ground clearance of three inches. I'll off-road where its dry in any PWC of past and present, but a dusty tractor road leads to squeaky seat operations. I've never gotten a believable remedy from Sunrise Medical or Permobil - both recommend replacing the elevator, do not lubricate.
@@clinicalmobilitysolutions2131 Enjoyed the demonstration! Thanks!
Have you had the chance to work with the Quantum edge 3? If so, what is your assessment of it. Such as the ride stability / shock absorption compared to the others you have tested. Thanks
You also used the tdxsp2 last in the test which going over where all the other chair has gone before
Thank you for getting in touch Steve, the edit was not in sequence. The TDX was actually the second to be filmed 🙂
I always had a chair with 4 wheels, and I have to change my chair. And I wonder if it's better with 6 wheel to roll in the paths with bumps and the paths in the wood??
Sory for my english
Hello! Thank you for getting in touch. It does very much depend on the type of terrain you're travelling over and your natural preference. As you're very familiar with 4 wheels and therefore either a FWD or RWD chair, I would make sure you trialled a few MWD options to establish if it could work for you. A RWD or FWD drive maybe able to tackle obstacles but won't necessarily be as forgiving as a MWD chair due to the articulating axles. Hope this helps
@@clinicalmobilitysolutions2131 Thanks
I can't test many chairs, I'm in a remote area, my questions are on terrain with stones and bumps, which brews the least, chair with 4 or 6 wheels
@@arrow-84-34 I think you'd probably be best with a RWD or FWD with 4 wheels. Although you won't have as much articulation, you will have the ability to select large wheels as both the drive wheels and the castor wheels. Good luck!
Qm700is good 👍
Test 3 with Rear wheel drive, please 🙏🏼
Coming soon!
Der beste off-road Rollstuhl ist für mich Permobil x850.
Die vier Stühle im Video, sind mehr für die Stadt geeignet.
Bei allen Vier, sitzen auf der Achse sehr anstrengend.
Qm700is 👍
Which one is the fastest?
I wonder how well do these chairs perform in a few inches of snow. Just wondering because I live in Connecticut .
Thank you for getting in touch, sadly I'm not sure they'd do very well at all. The only way of giving them a bit of a chance would be to increase the wheel size and opt for pneumatics rather than solid tyres so you can dictate the pressure. Hope this helps
Very interesting to watch how they perform but I wouldn't want to clean the tyres 🤣
Haha yes, it wasn’t the easiest of jobs!
a little soap and water in a pump sprayer and it comes off pretty easy, tbh.
you didn't include frontier V6
Merit Vector 323 HD pwc please sir
Have you tried out the quantum q6 edge 2? Thanks 😊
Hello Adam, thank you for getting in touch. Yes we have although we are yet to do a video on it, hopefully soon though. Do you have one?
@@clinicalmobilitysolutions2131 we are getting one soon. It was a ex mobility scheme but is being tailored for our wife and car. Hoping it will be more able to tackle grassy areas and terrain than her current Rascal P327
HEY, YOU DON'T HAVE THE BOUNDER IN THE UK?
No we don't unfortunately, thanks for getting touch though!
what grade will they handle
How do clean in an easy way after getting it muddy?
I’m 46 and I gently and lightly use a hose to clean all my chairs over the years it never breaks them but you need common sense etc. Companies who say not to are just covering their arse
Estou a precisar de ajuda... tem algum que fale português?
Thank you for getting in touch, unfortunately nobody can speak Portuguese but we can do our best to translate
mid-wheel drives for off road are useless , stick to flat lawns only ! had one for 3 years and look forward to deleting it, Also run mitogen in tyres that except gas fill it takes the bang out of potholes that said they are very ruff rides the mid wheels
If you want to go off road on a regular basis you shouldn't even be considering a MWD chair! I personally prefer a FWD but RWD chairs also work quite well!
Ai đó có thể tặng tôi một chiếc được không
Paraiz
Test 3 with Rear wheel drive, please 🙏🏼
We will definitely add it to the list! Thanks for getting in touch