Depends on the use case. I often use my 1250GS to run errands in the city. A top box is great in this case as it doesn’t add to the width of the bike, lets me store my helmet when I”m off the bike, gives me decent storage to get groceries etc and provides a backrest should I have passenger. It transforms the bike from a toy to a real daily driver.
Exactly what I use my GIVI Outback Trekker 42L for and long trips. But, Pavlin is correct in pointing out it is very easy to overload the topbox which causes structural issues. I'm very careful about what goes in it on long trips. It's invariably light stuff like a hat, nutritional bars, tubeless puncture kit etc. Then I use it to store my jacket and helmet when I stop somewhere on long trips.
I like tank bag for handy items such as gloves,tool,phone etc. Top-box I don't like but prefer strapping bags for bulky items such as shopping or travel-gear.
I agree. I have both but use the tank bag more. I have one that locks onto the bike and I also put a camel back bladder in it, the tube comes out between the zip closers and with a short hose i can hydrate on the go as i use a modular helmet. That's been reason enough to take it whilst riding in sweltering conditions.
Both have their uses. With management on the bike she insists on a back rest - fair enough. But my preference is to keep the weight in front of the rear axle. Ride safe
I hope the mount is solid enough for back-rest purpose, we don‘t want to lose her with the topcase, especially if the topcase carries the purse with the credit cards. ;-)
It is very important that the topbox is fastened properly with 0 play. If it has any play it will magnify that clearance on a washboard road and cause stress failure. Keep only light items in top box . Have used one for many many years with no issues. I also use a small tank bag for convenience of items used often
With experience comes wisdom. You are always so generous in sharing both with your followers. You always prove that there is no such thing as one size fits all.
Greetings Pablin from CDMX. I have been traveling by motorcycle to work daily for more than 12 years and at the beginning I already had 3 plastic boxes and the story always ended badly. They vibrate, they make a lot of noise, they break and the system fails. and all to carry my raincoats and rubber boots. Now I carry that in a small 10L dry bag and changed the boots for covers. I tied her with a net. The rest when I travel goes in a Tank Bag and another 20L waterproof bag that goes largely in the back seat and not in the tail. It drives better and I feel calmer without worries thanks to your advice from several years ago when you discussed the subject. Everything you say is true and happens. Take good care of yourself and receive a hug from your friend the Hairdresser Arturo.
Givi aluminium outback trekker top box for me. If a bikes designed to carry a 50 kg plus pillion, it can easily handle a top box ! It was brilliant for a three month wild camping trip around Scandinavia last summer, which included a lot of forest roads and trails. I don’t like a big tank bag cramping me in the riding position and I wear a smallish waist bag for quickly accessible items. Also I don’t want to carry around a bulky tank bag whenever I’m off the bike. A well made rack system engineered specifically for your bike with a good quality box should not just snap off or be a problem. I noticed your friends setup was home made, no surprise it broke. Enjoyed your video , still got a thumbs up ! Peace man ✌🏻
On a 1st gen Hayabusa I've used a tall tank bag, centralizing my load while placing a 4.5 gal fuel cell mounted in the pillion region; the cell is baffled and foamed to minimize slosh. Long haul IBA
Rule of thumb: Top Box is perfectly fine and preferable if you ride exclusively on paved and well-maintained roads in civilized areas. Also, they can even benefit aerodynamics, depending on your overall fairing structure (happened to me on my 35 year old Kawasaki 1000cc in combination with my 110 kg torso 😅 -> creating a much smoother airflow) But for ANY OTHER TRIP: Go for the damn tankbag and horseshoe soft panniers! It reduces the load on the rear frame tremendously and distributes it much more evenly.
Sounds like excuses to me, instead of clearly placing your preference, that it makes total sense to you and that is absolutely fine, don‘t laugh those 110 are pretty common ai eros dynamics ;-) and I call them fluffy air flow, especially on seat heat level. ;-)
I have both a small givi top box and a magnetic tank bag, I mix and match depending on what I will be doing. If I have the top box on it will have a small first aid kit and a one piece waterproof inside with enough room to keep my helmet and gloves if I need to leave the bike for a short time. The tank bag has a small oxford tool kit, my mobile phone, thermal liner gloves, neck buff/balaclava, micro fibre cloth, ear plugs, cap, wallet, snacks, power pack and charging cables. I could quite easily just ride without either and use my pockets. 9 times out of 10 I remove the top box and just use my tank bag. I like to have both and like you say pro's and con's to both.
Any luggage or extra weight you add to a motorcycle is best kept between the axles so a top box is not a good idea, bit like hard panniers normally sit further back than soft panniers, low and as far forward as possible is the aim at the rear and running a tank bag can offset some of the weight by moving it to the front to improve the front rear balance. A soft bag mounted to the pillion seat is a much better option, as you said Pavlin engineers try to get the balance of a bike the best they can, why try mess with it.
Good morning sir, tony here I'm riding since 14 years old, I'm 62 now I always have a top box never had a problem with it . I haven't done as many miles as you but I'm a very experienced motorcyclist swear by the top box wouldn't be without it
@Pavlin ... Well said and 100% agree. Top-boxes are the biggest inducer of speed wobbles, have no benefit in my mind over a tank bag and in my case, being a bit old and "Arthritic" if I had one on my XT660Z i would never be able to get off
As always Pavlin, another thought provoking video challenging my choices! So, I prefer both! But, my riding is generally confined to mostly paved roads. But.........on my adventure bike, no top box for all of the reasons stated. I prefer a top box when traveling cross country because, yes, in spite of all your sound advice and admonitions, I do carry too much stuff, hence the top box. Completely agree with your comment regarding over all performance as at high speeds, very noticeable. Thank you again! Pretty cold here in Oregon, counting the days! Take care my friend! Dave
my top case is essential, and nearly empty ! i use it only to store helmet and jacket during stops. eventually there is inside rain's stuff, and some shoes for touristic halt.
I have used Givi topboxes for years taking the same set from bike to bike. Super practical for commuting and have used for touring without issue. It's good because it is quick and easy but looks ugly and is heavy and noisy off road and will break if you have any weight in it off road. Never had any handling issues, but then I don't really overload it. On longer trips I just use panniers and a big bag which is better for camping gear. Always have a tankbag for my valuables and it never leaves me.
I use a mixture of all storage options. 1. City commuting/Grocery - Topbox, Hard Panniers, Tankbag 2. Long Rides or With Offroad - Saddlebags, Tailbags, Tankbags Best of both worlds my man
I use a topcase on my scooter. Very convenient. A tankbag on any motorbike, because of weight distribution. The less you take with you the smaller your bags can be - which is a big plus while cornering or riding offroad. I don't like rucksacks (weight, falling down), except my Camelbak for carrying 3 liters of water. Cheers, Günter/Nürnberg
I ride a VStrom 1000XT. During 68,000 km (42,000 miles) of riding I’ve experimented with riding with both a tank bag and top box on multi-day trips in addition to my pannier bags (also without either). My preference is NO tank bag and a top box. My top box is a Shad 45L. I typically carry things that I want for ready access. I carry snacks/water to alleviate lunch stops. Also carry a first aid kit, tire plug kit, air pump, hat, goretex over pants, waterproof gloves, and layers if needed. The top box is typically less than half full. I could get by without the top box but like the convenience. The biggest negative about it is that it lets you carry more stuff. The same for a tank bag. At first I liked the tank bag but found it is less secure on stops - easy for someone to walk off with it. The tank bag also lengthened fuel stops. In the end I found I just didn’t need it. The top box was far superior. For reference I ride mostly paved roads and good quality unpaved roads. The only time I ride without the top box is when I have a need to carry extra fuel. In that case, I replace the top box with a Rotopax (6L or 1.5 gallons) and I put a tail bag on top of the Rotopax.
I use a tail bag. External pockets for organizing small items. Drink pockets. Rings to attach a cargo net for overflow. I have a collapsible fuel bag and a collapsible cooler bag that can go under the tail bag when empty. For those who attach a Rotopax to the top rack, the tail bag can go on top. I had a tank bag with magnets for awhile. I experienced crosswinds once that tried to push the bag off the tank. I had to secure the tank bag to the top of my tail bag. I don't like the restricted feeling I get from a large tank bag. I have two mini-bags that attach to the crash bars. Nothing fragile in them. You can get them from Lone Rider and Givi.
Your way of loading the bike is indeed correct and tested.......after many kilometres 👍 Anyway, let's add my "thing" if I may, because I believe it still depends on many parameters what to choose... Top box is the safest way to store things on a motorcycle, even if someone knows how to brake the lock. Bags made out of soft materials are to be considered "lost", especially in metropols. Sure aerodynamics and weight distribution, change with anything we put on a motorcycle (windscreen, bags, mud guard etc), so we have to adapt. A rear rack with an metal plate, made of good materials, should handle most situations. See, people are buying cheap plastic plates and even loosing topboxes on the highway! As for the tankbag I went for one with a tanklock. More practical and doesn't scratch the tank 😉 ...you have to be able to choose, between different configurations, matching any trip.
Also a bag can just pe grabbed, which is not as easy with a top box. It needs to be broken to get it, or get inside it, which might take a couple of minutes and bring attention. Also, if the manufacturer puts a rack on the bike, designer to fit a big topbox, I might think they thought this through. The tank bag is convenient in the sense that it's easy accessible, without dismounting and you can easily take it with you, but this also means you can't leave it unattended, not even for a minute. I conclusion, each has its use case, and it shouldn't be a question of "tankbag OR topbox" but rather "when tankbag/when topbox". Cheers
I use my topbox on black top riding and my soft luggage everywhere else. I already have pannier frames and rear plates so it is easy to swap in 1 minute. If the top box is not appropriately mounted it will pop open or do damage to frame work. Most topboxes are only rated to 5kg. If overloaded snappo. Great review Palvin.
50 000km on my old restored Transalp 1987 in the last 5 years. 50% off-road. All with GIVI top box. Falls? Yes.... Scratches, no breaks. By the way, Yamaha and all the others made the bikes ready for loading a rear rack AND a passenger. Come on guys. Yes I feel it. But getting to stuff I need in the rain or any other time is immediate, no undoing anything. Will do the same on my 901 next month when I get the bike. Good riding season to all.
As a student on fluid dynamics, i agree with you on the generation of vortices or turbulent as the aerodynamic air flow being perturbed by along motorbike motion. Side way winds could also cause distraction to the motorbike motion...something to think about. Between the tank bag and box ....tank bag seems better option. Thank you.
Givi big aluminum box on the tail for daily/weekend riding. But, when something heavy (not fragile) need to be packed, then soft side bags to mount all the weight lower. Plus small tank bag with quick release feature for camera.
Both top case & tank bag , but no big square metal boxes or hard panniers . If more storage is needed a soft water proof roll tote bag bungeed across the rear seat against a plastic givi type clip off top case . If you bust your top case lock ,you fix a hasp & staple & pad lock to case ,or wrap a cable net lock around it & rear rack. My rear rack comes as standard with bike & can take 15 kg ,the givi box is about 3 kg recommended to take 3 •5 kg ,I only put about 3 kg in it ,so have a good safety weight margin . The broken rack on that bike is a light sports rack ,with no extra bracing ,which is not meant to take the weight of a top box & contents , probably only meant to take about 3 kgs max .
I'm using plastic top box from shad with 38 liters and in my case this works perfect. I have it on my middleweight bike 500 class. Mostly I use bike for commuting, city ride, sometimes longer one day ride's. On the stop's I have place where I leave helmet and gloves at the same time I remove my u-lock to secure the bike. On the rides I have inside only some light weight gear like second gloves, gear to secure a bike, small emergency kit for tyres, small light portable tyres compressor, on longer rides some light camping gear like titan cooking set, other light small things. For me this works perfectly. It's light and aerodynamic (round and light plastic is for me better than heavier, non aerodynamic, and lot more expensive aluminum top box. In my opinion top box can be very useful when you choose and use wisely.
Top box also makes difficult to get on the bike for us that do a ‘kickover’ to mount the bike (I avoid standing on the pegs to mount). Top box great for running to the store for a six pack, but otherwise would not recommend unless riding a cruiser/big brick on long trips. Hard luggage (panniers) also a bad idea for offroad riding (Lucky, just a bruise getting hit during a foot dab in the sand).
I have both motorcycle bags and top box. Sometimes I ride with either one over the other. Sometimes both. Case to case basis. Depending on weather, things to bring, weight, volume, duration of the trip, etc. Always a rider's personal preference. A must have.
Long time ago I made extended trips with my bike (for example crossing big parts of Africa). At that time my tank bag it was big, big, big (perhaps it was called Elefantenboy?). There almost an entire house fitted inside. Comfortable it was not really. But a small tank bag like it was presented by you is probably something esential for long range adventure trips. I personally would have then in the back a more or less water proved soft luggage roll with perhaps even a big backpack inside for hiking tours. But for sure everybody has her / his own favourits.
I love the front trunk of my NC750X, fits my day pack while riding, then my full-face helmet when leaving the bike. But soft luggage is definitely more forgiving... Safe riding, thanks for another interesting video!
In my opinion on a trip…..whether you take a top box or not, a tank bag is a must-have. I keep my valuables and documents in it. I also keep cash in it for tolls. I use the GIVI type with the tank ring system. So easy to clip on and off, so you can quickly remove it to fill the tank with fuel or to take the the bag off and take it with you if you leave the bike when you get off for meals etc… I think a better question is Top Box or Panniers or maybe both? For me the tank bag is an essential bit of kit
I have Givi B37 top-box on my street bike, and it is officially rated for 3 kg load and speed of 120 km/h. I use primarily to store helmet & gloves when I am off the bike, plus a portable pump, also carry some grocery in it. For offroad routes it is definitely not the right choice, soft seat bag would be much better (unless you have a passenger). I also have a small tank-bag with a quick-lock mechanism, using it time to time to carry small stuff when want my pockets to be free, but it may fit more stuff.
Ahh, good to see the camera gear organized Pavlin. A nice thing with the Nomax tankbag is that it works as a backpack as well. Great when leaving the bike. The waterbladder included is of great quality and could be used elsewhere, now when You need all space for gear. Happy trails my frend!
Definitely great quality! I won't use the water bladder and the backpack straps, to open more space for my camera gear, but I will share more in a review video. Thanks for the recommendation, Mathias!
@@motorcycleadventuresLook forward to see the detailed review. 👌 I have the earlier model called Nomad, I think the backpack straps are lower volume packed on mine (maybe, I'll habe to check when I see the Nomax again).
@@motorcycleadventures I didn‘t use the bladder on the older model Nomad either. I had the map holder connected with holds an A5 school notebook, which I used for turn-by-turn navigation ;-) and my map underneath for lookups if required. The bag I mounted with rock-straps at the bottom end (left-right), to give the elasticity and re-stabilisation, also the quick length adjustment. I disliked the clunky clip bouncing around my streering with all the other cables around, but it never locked up or fiddled with them as I had feared before. The Map holder is practical and a nuisance at the same time. With the bag being forward open I had it cliped close with a light small carabiner, the map holder though thanks to the wind coming into this open area was always pushing upwards, opening, if I hadn‘t clipped it together and bouncing around. That was on a naked bike and as it was much lower than your tenere it was manageable. I assume on your tenere with the screen the problem might not be that severe, but if so, then surely annoying so near to your view. Try that. The Nomad not having the bag extention and being made from different material looks stronger/stiffer to me than the new Nomax, so that‘ll be interesting to me to see how solid that new one is. And how much additional effective space it provides.
For me a top box is a given as I ride a full dresser that comes with a built in tourpack. I don't really keep anything in the tourpack while riding, I use it as space to lock helmet and jacket up when off the bike for any length of time. I use the tank bag for storage or easily accessed items such as lip balm, sunscreen, phone and hard candies. Other than the phone I don't stress over those items growing legs and walking off. I'd be pissed off but they are easy to replace. If I was traveling off road on another bike I would ditch the top box for many of the reasons you mentioned.
Tank bag for me. I have one that can be extended so big that it fits way more stuff than the plastic box in this video. Of course I never use it fully extended because I wouldn't see anything behind it, but good to have that option. It is better to have the center of gravity higher between my arms than higher behind my back that makes the balance worse and pulls the front of the bike upwards.
I commute and drop off the kid at school and go on small trips with him on the back. As he’s quite small a top-box is a must, if nothing else to have somewhere to keep his trumpet. Apart from the luggage space and backrest function I love the fact that it doesn’t add to the width of the bike when filtering through traffic to and from work. I’ve added a SW Motech tank bag and I look forwards to have a water bladder, some snacks, papers and chargers and things. I think this setup will be great for our small excursions. For longer tours, especially when camping, I have hard panniers and if I don’t carry a pillion I exchange the top box for a duffle bag (or paraglider bag) that I strap down. I like having the Yamaha OEM top box and carrier, I think it balances out the rear of the Tracer aesthetically speaking. This being said, the worst terrain I do is a well-maintained gravel road.
I usually carry my stuff in a backpack inside the top box (and the side panniers too). If I cannot use the topbox for any reason, my backpack can be tied to the rear seat, or strapped to the missus' back or to my own back if I'm traveling alone. Also, I can carry the top box with me to the hotel room if the need arises (although the extra weight really hinders sometimes). Thanks for the video, though, very good insights about the tank bag, I will start considering one of these for my next trip.
Easy. Buy an nc700 series Honda. Joking aside, I used soft side bags and laid down my 65L backpack across the rear seat and pillion these year on a long trip. The frunk on my nc700 held all my delicate or expensive kit.
Depends on the trip. For on-road trips, top box is not really a problem, especially if you enjoy your trip at lower speeds. Even hard panniers have their purpose, when you travel on the tarmac. Wehn you go off-road, a top box and hard panniers are a burden, add weight and drag and possibly wobble to the bike, and they are prone to either breaking off the bike or breaking the mounts or the subframe, especially if your offroading gets a little rougher. Then the solution is soft luggage, well strapped and secured, either in the back or in the front, as you show with the tank bag. Personally I do not use tank bags, and I don't really find any practical use for them, because I don't do things while I ride and I don't need ready access to anything. Of course, I haven't been on trips longer than 6-7 hours from "civilisation" and never abroad - yet. So maybe my experience is limited. I have to point out that I don't drink a lot of water because then I need to stop very often for nature calls and I don't record my trips via cameras, so the only think I'd do on a long trip is have a cigarette break every couple of hours and maybe a couple of sips from a plastic bottle, even when offroading in the summer with 40C+ temperatures. But then you've stopped anyway, and you've gotten off your bike, so you can open your duffel bag in the bag and take what you need. Nevertheless, I've got many friends who do use tank bags and they consider them very convenient, eacch for their own purposes. Thanks again, Pavlin, for sharing your insight and experience!
This surely was a topic of great interest. I have the SW Motech aluminium cases on my V Strom 1000. If I will buy a new motorcycle I will get something like the SW Motech Dusc boxes. They are lighter (plastic) but you can use a side pannier as a topbox if you like. The recommended weight of the load in the alu cases is 3 kg and in the lighter plastic panniers 5 kg. Two times in eight years the bolts on my rack for the topbox have broken. I have been lucky both times and have not lost the topbox. Now on my daily short rides I use a Kriega US20 tail bag for tire repair items, compressor and first aid kit and a water bottle. If I go on a longer trip with my topbox I use it for raingear, extra layers, gloves etc. No heavy stuff. I have not experienced any problems with riding my bike with the topbox. I sometimes also have camping equipment across my passenger seat. The V Strom is a heavy bike and can carry some weight. I don´t do offroading other than good gravel roads or a short single track to a camp spot.
Great video, as usual. The Mosko Moto tank bag is used on my off-road bike and street bike because of the water bladder that I am constantly sucking on in the heat of the summer, plus the window on top is handy for paper maps. Yes these bags are pricey, but it is absolute quality in every detail. Buy once. cry once. The Hepco & Becker top box is used only on the back of the street bike when I am riding two up because it gives my passenger a back rest with a more comfortable riding experience. We generally have only light quick grab items in there. The H&B are expensive as well, but the quality is NOT there to justify their cost. Bought the top box with the frame to fit my street bike plus two panniers online sight unseen and I have to say I have total buyers remorse on that purchase. One thing to think about. On most bikes the TOTAL rating for the tail is around 10kg (22 lbs) or so. I, like many others, have been guilty of overloading the top box and, because of the geometry the top box hangs past the rear axle, this WILL lighten the front tire causing a possible unsafe riding condition.
Great vid makes seance personally box for local city use tank bag can be nuisance but agree with pros/cons givi boxs are stronger than you think and tip allways put strap around it
Mostly ride a 1200 Wing. Top box and bags. I can fit a lot of groceries in it. My buddy rides a Tiger. He has a small tail bag now and wants a top box for travel. He doesn't like side bags because it is too wide. I usually put a tank bag on my Wing for small stuff: glasses, gloves and anything I need quick access to. Even food.
Top box for around town and shorter trips, I'd say. Very handy for helmet storage or carrying some groceries. Soft saddle bags for longer trips like you do Pavlin, no argument. Tank bag is great for longer trips, I agree. To keep passports, phones, maps, etc. I lost a top box, it rattled loose. I crashed and broke a top box off the bike, big problem. How do you then carry it around? If you don't have straps you have to throw it away, plus the stuff inside it. Once again a very nice video.
What about soft top boxes? I was considering just this, as you have rightly pointed out that hard top boxes secured to our bikes will fail eventually but a soft top box tied down with secure pac mesh. I will need a top box of some kind, because my wife will fly out to join me every few months and without a backrest for her and extra space.
Thanks once again for your qualified discussion of this topic Pavlin. Where we place the weight on these bikes can really affect how they ride (particularly off-road) which - let's face it - is the reason we do this in the first place. For the ride! Unfortunate that the Yamaha has that type of fuel cap, as it isn't ideal for the tank bag. At least the Honda has a flush cap. I would still prefer the type of tankbag with a clear panel, as you previously used, as I still tend to rely on paper maps for the most part. I have a GPS, with all its wonders and shortcomings, but have travelled mostly by paper maps for well over 50 years now. One reported 'con' with the magnetic type tank bags is that they may scratch the paint a little, but in 'adventure mode' we shouldn't be too precious about this. But once again, I find myself in total agreement with your view of these matters. I have been minimising the weight of my bikes and gear for many decades at this point, and have always avoided having too much weight placed behind the rear axle for all the reasons you mentiion. A duffel-type bag on the rear seat is preferable, being flexible (and lighter) like other soft luggage. I often use a backpack, as that doesn't weigh down the actual bike, and moves with you. And your largely unbiased opinions would be best described as 'objective', rather than 'subjective' (if I heard you correctly). (Subjective is roughly the opposite of objective, and implies that you are affected by biases or preconceptions). I only mention this as your English is quite excellent, and quite sophisticated, for the most part. Much better than my Bulgarian! Like your commonsense (which is often said to be not that common!) it is very easy to listen to. Thank you.
I know a guy who had his Givi top-box frame break off. He set it well back and the vibration caused fatigue. You cannot swing you leg over and I personally hate them .
Tank bag for me. I’m riding not caravanning. I don’t even camp off my t7 as it’s too difficult to carry a firearm, bow or fishing rod. I’ve got hard and soft luggage but loading it up is like dancing with a large lady that’s carrying meals for 3 days. I ride a lot of off road at a reasonable pace.
Top Box is for me, coupled with a waterproof panier bag secured to the pavillion seat gives me easy space to throw fragile items (pastries, locally brought food etc) in the box along with a power socket for charging my devices. I have a large plastic tank also which does'nt help.
The other advantage I I found with tank bags is the fact that it makes the bike a little bit lighter by removing a little paint from the gas tank every time you use it. And I must say by looking at the average rider, nobody seems to care if their bike stays in good shape aesthetically. I prefer my bike to stay scratch free so that’s why I use a top box that doesn’t touch any painted surfaces.
Hey Pavlin, always awesome to see your content. It's not a clear cut answer as it seems. It differs from bike to bike, depending where the bike carries most of it's weight, front or back. I bought my 2000 Honda Africa Twin back then with a factory 45l top box that fits two helmets very easily and I have been all over Southern Africa with that top box on. The fact that the AT carries its weight low and mostly on the front wheel, it never felt unsafe. In fact, the only way I could achieve a top speed of 200km/h was with the top box on the back. Somehow, it seemed to have behaved almost like a car boot spoiler when I tuck in behind the screen, adding more traction to the back wheel and less wear on the back tyre. Without the top box, I always ended up at about 190km/h top speed. So, that's that on the wind tunnel theory. That said, if you fit that same top box on say a Kawasaki 650 or 1000 Versys that wants to lift the front wheel at any given opportunity it will absolutely cause instability I think at high speed as you pointed out Pavlin. I now have a 2017 Africa Twin 1000cc and I wouldn't want to take my top box on serious off-road rides because in the past two decades everyone asked for lighter and more powerful bikes which my newer Africa Twin suffers from. The brackets and even the side stands are not as strong as they used to make it back then and that has become a weak point unfortunately on most bikes to save weight. I have found that if you do use your topbox off-road and don't have a pillion, you can add another bag onto the back seat and tie it down and the top box to it. That will cause less movement of the top box and the bag holding it, will support it as well being mounted to the seat. So, it's not all that bad. It also attracts less criminal elements, regardless wether or not they can break into as easily as a duffel bag. The same principal applies to how some world travelers use a bike cover in a parking lot just to draw less attention to the bike, bags, mounts and everything else on the bike. I'm now also looking at a tank-bag to secure my phone, coz here in Africa you dare stop at a traffic light with your phone mounted to the steering. They will snatch it. Greetings here from South Africa, Brian
There are also very solid tang bags that don't use straps to connect to the motorcycle with rings and can lock into place + put some locks on the zippers......But they are heavier, expensiver. But I use mine as a chest rest and ride for hundred of kilometers without even feeling any problems, and it fits almost eveything I need for a 2 day trip, even a 3 day trip..... Con is it's the size of a helmet :)) I also love a very good tank bag and side mounted bags/bag on the tail.....best way to travel.......Although you need to be more carefull where you leave your bike, because bags can get cut with a knife faster than aluminium....
I have nothing against topcases, but I need to tell you about some hidden feature of every one; if you want something destroyed put it in your box without any filling so it can move freely and go explore some backroads 😅 🇵🇱🤚🇧🇬
I had a 50liter topbox on my motorcycle but when its loaded and there is strong winds it becomes dangerous and the motorcycle doesnt handle well. I switched to soft luggage and never going back.
Applications are different. Top Box is ok when commuting within the city. For long trips with off road trails involved, tank bag is a better option but only if it doesn't compromise handling when riding in standing position.
Wish i could use a tank bag, convenient, but i hate it being in my way to move forward. I use saddle horn bags on sides of my tank instead myself. I do use a shallow tail box but it's left mostly empty except for the nights food/beverage, usually end of day load.. For me, great setup
Top box with lock good for traveling in busy areas 👍 Soft top bag like the Lonerider 48 l good for traveling in remote areas. The beaver tail/lid is very usefull. Tank bag. I will never use one. The Rade Garage tank kit offers a 2 l glove-box for my KTM 890. Perfect.
I always travel with 1 big waterproof bag on the back seat of the motorcycle or on the rack (with stuff I only need when I arrive at the Hotel or my destination). And I use a Tank bag for all the small stuff I want to access quickly (Small snacks, Water, Map, Camera etc.). I will never ever travel with a top case in long distance. I had a Topcase one time and I crashed the bike (lowside at around 30kmh or 40kmh). The Motorcycle wasnt badly damaged. But the topcase was not usable as the plastic broke in half. Imagine your topcase breaks in the middle of nowhere on a long trip and you must put your stuff from the topcase to your other bags which are already full. Yeah im not risking it.
Had a huge and heavy top box and hard panniers on my Aprillia Tuareg 660 and it made it so heavy and I hated it off road. I actually never liked that bike much at all. The only time I liked my top box is when I went to the mall and left my helmet in it. Literally the only good thing that it did and I could put groceries after. Now on my 2024 Tenere 700 that I got last month I will be going with Kriega US drybags system.
In my case Pavlin , you are preaching to the converted. The more trips I do the less thnigs I carry. In fact now on proper off-road trips that I do in pakistan, I no longer use my 250cc adventure bike, instead I have converted my Yamaha YBR125 to 200cc with an engine swap and it will now climb any incline at the high altitudes that we have. I use a small tank bag for my camera and a half empty 60l bag on the bak seat. It is more than enough.
Hi Pavlin, Like usual great video, I really love how you explain everything, and leave it to everyone to choose the best option which suits you! Want to ask you something from your latest trip to Magadan. What currency you have in Russia 🇷🇺 except rubles, I sow how you take the money from ATM in SperBank. Is it possible to use Visa, Mastercard or other cards from European Banks , or cash 💸 in what currency is good to have it. Sorry for questions not related to this video, much appreciated if you have time to reply or advise. Igor
I Agree with all your assessments but dislike top boxes or anything at the rear that encourages pillion passengers to lean backwards and thus front feel lighter
I like having the touratech top case on my r1200gs mainly to put my helmet in, when off the bike. However I did notice that it catches the wind and moves the bike around. So lately I leave the top case off on trips and use waterproof duffels. Been thinking about a Mosko Moto 30 liter duffel for trips
I always have a tank bag for all the reasons you mention. If I am onroad only I sometimes take a top box but never without panniers. A motorcycle with just a top box looks like the pizza delivery guy
I disagree, while I love the Nomad to death, just as much as I love my ultra-old-school Harro. But for proper Off-Road in mixed conditions or stream-crossing it‘s sheit. Dump it into a mud puddle, do it. Then come again and say it‘s a must. Even in multi-days of total rain, the humidity creeps under the shower-cape coming with it. Not a problem for short rain phases of 1 or 2 hours unless it‘s superstrong stormy. The proof is in their catalog, they realized they needed waterproof bags, too. Something Enduristan not only serves as Tankbags, but in their backpack range, too. Klim doesn‘t have that.
i bought my ktm 890 with a top box from day 1.. wanted to look cool like all the GS bikes.. first offroad trip i fell and the top box corner hit me right in the spine.. it hurt for 3 weeks.. since then i've only used a tank bag from Enduristan which is extendable if i need more water or food on a trip.. and it feels so much safer and better and lighter!
I had a plastic bottle of water snugly wrapped in among my clothes in a top box. At the end of the ride, which was very rough and bumpy, I had an empty 2 litre water bottle and a lot of wet clothes.
I think you meant to say objective instead of subjective. But I get what you are saying. Also a tankbag has it uses, but when using the straps you will sooner or later scratch your tank, especially when using offroad.
Great video! I think you kinda got aerodynamics and weight distrobution messup around 11:00. The top box definetle worcens the aerodynamics of a bike. But so does a tank bag. YEs teh tank bag is usually hiden behind the windshield but the top case is hidden behind the rider. And as the rider is the biggest aerodynamic disruption on the bike a top box won`t produce any significant drag or disturbance compared to the rider. But any way from your expalnation I think you were reffering to the weight distribution and there your point ware valid.
Wrong aerodynamics?! Well we drivers sitting on a motorcycle impacts already the aerodynamics ;) it has impact on the weight distribution however to be honest adventure style motorcycles don’t matter much. Having a soft bag behind can have similar effect. It is a dilemma and no clear winner. It all depends on the use cases. Thanks for the insights. Helpful as always :)
I have been running pelican 1430 top loading side cases on my 2017 vstrom for daily use and depending what im doing its dry bags/backpack ect strapped to the rack for traveling. I have never got into tank bags, it just so weird to me. anything I need handy is in my pockets. my biggest hang-up is the fact the mounting is so janky.
I hate hard luggage. I travel very light (maximum 12 kgs) and around 30% of my luggage weight is tubes and tools to change them. I am now planning to buy the new Himalayan which will have optional tibeless spoke rims and i can drop the tubes/tools and drop the weight even further.
Tank bag and rear bag is a winner .
Good!
Depends on the use case. I often use my 1250GS to run errands in the city. A top box is great in this case as it doesn’t add to the width of the bike, lets me store my helmet when I”m off the bike, gives me decent storage to get groceries etc and provides a backrest should I have passenger. It transforms the bike from a toy to a real daily driver.
Fair enough!
@@motorcycleadventures Love your channel and your course by the way. Thanks so much for your great content!
Exactly what I use my GIVI Outback Trekker 42L for and long trips. But, Pavlin is correct in pointing out it is very easy to overload the topbox which causes structural issues. I'm very careful about what goes in it on long trips. It's invariably light stuff like a hat, nutritional bars, tubeless puncture kit etc. Then I use it to store my jacket and helmet when I stop somewhere on long trips.
I like tank bag for handy items such as gloves,tool,phone etc. Top-box I don't like but prefer strapping bags for bulky items such as shopping or travel-gear.
I agree. I have both but use the tank bag more. I have one that locks onto the bike and I also put a camel back bladder in it, the tube comes out between the zip closers and with a short hose i can hydrate on the go as i use a modular helmet. That's been reason enough to take it whilst riding in sweltering conditions.
Easy - I always use both
Fair enough!
Both have their uses.
With management on the bike she insists on a back rest - fair enough.
But my preference is to keep the weight in front of the rear axle.
Ride safe
I understand her!
I hope the mount is solid enough for back-rest purpose, we don‘t want to lose her with the topcase, especially if the topcase carries the purse with the credit cards. ;-)
It is very important that the topbox is fastened properly with 0 play. If it has any play it will magnify that clearance on a washboard road and cause stress failure.
Keep only light items in top box .
Have used one for many many years with no issues.
I also use a small tank bag for convenience of items used often
Thanks for sharing!
With experience comes wisdom. You are always so generous in sharing both with your followers.
You always prove that there is no such thing as one size fits all.
Thanks for taking the time!
Greetings Pablin from CDMX. I have been traveling by motorcycle to work daily for more than 12 years and at the beginning I already had 3 plastic boxes and the story always ended badly. They vibrate, they make a lot of noise, they break and the system fails. and all to carry my raincoats and rubber boots. Now I carry that in a small 10L dry bag and changed the boots for covers. I tied her with a net. The rest when I travel goes in a Tank Bag and another 20L waterproof bag that goes largely in the back seat and not in the tail. It drives better and I feel calmer without worries thanks to your advice from several years ago when you discussed the subject. Everything you say is true and happens. Take good care of yourself and receive a hug from your friend the Hairdresser Arturo.
Thanks for sharing!
As usual very practical tips. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Givi aluminium outback trekker top box for me. If a bikes designed to carry a 50 kg plus pillion, it can easily handle a top box !
It was brilliant for a three month wild camping trip around Scandinavia last summer, which included a lot of forest roads and trails.
I don’t like a big tank bag cramping me in the riding position and I wear a smallish waist bag for quickly accessible items. Also I don’t want to carry around a bulky tank bag whenever I’m off the bike.
A well made rack system engineered specifically for your bike with a good quality box should not just snap off or be a problem. I noticed your friends setup was home made, no surprise it broke.
Enjoyed your video , still got a thumbs up !
Peace man ✌🏻
Use whatever is good for you.
They're awesome right! See above comments. Although, when I go off-road I do take it off and leave it at the hotel or wherever I'm staying.
I have a 650 with a top box and a 600 with a tank bag / tail bag setup. I agree with everything you say Pavlin. 👍
Good to hear!
Tank bag for me, had both and I found tank bag more versatile.
Good!
On a 1st gen Hayabusa I've used a tall tank bag, centralizing my load while placing a 4.5 gal fuel cell mounted in the pillion region; the cell is baffled and foamed to minimize slosh. Long haul IBA
Rule of thumb:
Top Box is perfectly fine and preferable if you ride exclusively on paved and well-maintained roads in civilized areas. Also, they can even benefit aerodynamics, depending on your overall fairing structure (happened to me on my 35 year old Kawasaki 1000cc in combination with my 110 kg torso 😅 -> creating a much smoother airflow)
But for ANY OTHER TRIP: Go for the damn tankbag and horseshoe soft panniers! It reduces the load on the rear frame tremendously and distributes it much more evenly.
Thanks for sharing!
Sounds like excuses to me, instead of clearly placing your preference, that it makes total sense to you and that is absolutely fine, don‘t laugh those 110 are pretty common ai eros dynamics ;-) and I call them fluffy air flow, especially on seat heat level. ;-)
I have both a small givi top box and a magnetic tank bag, I mix and match depending on what I will be doing. If I have the top box on it will have a small first aid kit and a one piece waterproof inside with enough room to keep my helmet and gloves if I need to leave the bike for a short time. The tank bag has a small oxford tool kit, my mobile phone, thermal liner gloves, neck buff/balaclava, micro fibre cloth, ear plugs, cap, wallet, snacks, power pack and charging cables. I could quite easily just ride without either and use my pockets. 9 times out of 10 I remove the top box and just use my tank bag. I like to have both and like you say pro's and con's to both.
Thanks for sharing!
Any luggage or extra weight you add to a motorcycle is best kept between the axles so a top box is not a good idea, bit like hard panniers normally sit further back than soft panniers, low and as far forward as possible is the aim at the rear and running a tank bag can offset some of the weight by moving it to the front to improve the front rear balance.
A soft bag mounted to the pillion seat is a much better option, as you said Pavlin engineers try to get the balance of a bike the best they can, why try mess with it.
True! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Good morning sir, tony here I'm riding since 14 years old, I'm 62 now I always have a top box never had a problem with it . I haven't done as many miles as you but I'm a very experienced motorcyclist swear by the top box wouldn't be without it
Thanks for sharing!
Excellent video.... my main reason for not using top boxes is explained in point# 3. Aerodynamic and behavior change of the motorcycle.
Yes, exactly!
Just got a tank bag for my last trip. Will never be without it from now on. The convenience for grabbing the camera or changing gloves was awesome.
Thanks for sharing!
@Pavlin ... Well said and 100% agree. Top-boxes are the biggest inducer of speed wobbles, have no benefit in my mind over a tank bag and in my case, being a bit old and "Arthritic" if I had one on my XT660Z i would never be able to get off
Thanks for taking the time!
Tank bag for the win!
Good!
...I couldn´t agree more - tank bag is the much better option!!!
Good!
As always Pavlin, another thought provoking video challenging my choices! So, I prefer both! But, my riding is generally confined to mostly paved roads. But.........on my adventure bike, no top box for all of the reasons stated. I prefer a top box when traveling cross country because, yes, in spite of all your sound advice and admonitions, I do carry too much stuff, hence the top box. Completely agree with your comment regarding over all performance as at high speeds, very noticeable.
Thank you again! Pretty cold here in Oregon, counting the days!
Take care my friend!
Dave
Thanks for taking the time!
my top case is essential, and nearly empty ! i use it only to store helmet and jacket during stops. eventually there is inside rain's stuff, and some shoes for touristic halt.
Thanks for sharing!
I have used Givi topboxes for years taking the same set from bike to bike. Super practical for commuting and have used for touring without issue. It's good because it is quick and easy but looks ugly and is heavy and noisy off road and will break if you have any weight in it off road. Never had any handling issues, but then I don't really overload it. On longer trips I just use panniers and a big bag which is better for camping gear.
Always have a tankbag for my valuables and it never leaves me.
Thanks for taking the time and sharing your experience!
Great that the mounting frames now fit every bike. love it, didn‘t know that. ;-)
I use a mixture of all storage options.
1. City commuting/Grocery - Topbox, Hard Panniers, Tankbag
2. Long Rides or With Offroad - Saddlebags, Tailbags, Tankbags
Best of both worlds my man
Thanks for sharing!
Excellent video as usual, very true !
Glad you enjoyed it!
I use a topcase on my scooter. Very convenient. A tankbag on any motorbike, because of weight distribution. The less you take with you the smaller your bags can be - which is a big plus while cornering or riding offroad. I don't like rucksacks (weight, falling down), except my Camelbak for carrying 3 liters of water. Cheers, Günter/Nürnberg
Thanks for sharing!
I ride a VStrom 1000XT. During 68,000 km (42,000 miles) of riding I’ve experimented with riding with both a tank bag and top box on multi-day trips in addition to my pannier bags (also without either). My preference is NO tank bag and a top box. My top box is a Shad 45L. I typically carry things that I want for ready access. I carry snacks/water to alleviate lunch stops. Also carry a first aid kit, tire plug kit, air pump, hat, goretex over pants, waterproof gloves, and layers if needed. The top box is typically less than half full. I could get by without the top box but like the convenience. The biggest negative about it is that it lets you carry more stuff. The same for a tank bag.
At first I liked the tank bag but found it is less secure on stops - easy for someone to walk off with it. The tank bag also lengthened fuel stops. In the end I found I just didn’t need it. The top box was far superior.
For reference I ride mostly paved roads and good quality unpaved roads.
The only time I ride without the top box is when I have a need to carry extra fuel. In that case, I replace the top box with a Rotopax (6L or 1.5 gallons) and I put a tail bag on top of the Rotopax.
Thanks for sharing!
I use a tail bag. External pockets for organizing small items. Drink pockets. Rings to attach a cargo net for overflow.
I have a collapsible fuel bag and a collapsible cooler bag that can go under the tail bag when empty. For those who attach a Rotopax to the top rack, the tail bag can go on top.
I had a tank bag with magnets for awhile. I experienced crosswinds once that tried to push the bag off the tank. I had to secure the tank bag to the top of my tail bag.
I don't like the restricted feeling I get from a large tank bag. I have two mini-bags that attach to the crash bars. Nothing fragile in them. You can get them from Lone Rider and Givi.
Thanks for sharing!
Your way of loading the bike is indeed correct and tested.......after many kilometres 👍
Anyway, let's add my "thing" if I may, because I believe it still depends on many parameters what to choose...
Top box is the safest way to store things on a motorcycle, even if someone knows how to brake the lock. Bags made out of soft materials are to be considered "lost", especially in metropols. Sure aerodynamics and weight distribution, change with anything we put on a motorcycle (windscreen, bags, mud guard etc), so we have to adapt.
A rear rack with an metal plate, made of good materials, should handle most situations. See, people are buying cheap plastic plates and even loosing topboxes on the highway!
As for the tankbag I went for one with a tanklock. More practical and doesn't scratch the tank 😉
...you have to be able to choose, between different configurations, matching any trip.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
@@motorcycleadventures thanks for making it possible..
Also a bag can just pe grabbed, which is not as easy with a top box. It needs to be broken to get it, or get inside it, which might take a couple of minutes and bring attention. Also, if the manufacturer puts a rack on the bike, designer to fit a big topbox, I might think they thought this through.
The tank bag is convenient in the sense that it's easy accessible, without dismounting and you can easily take it with you, but this also means you can't leave it unattended, not even for a minute.
I conclusion, each has its use case, and it shouldn't be a question of "tankbag OR topbox" but rather "when tankbag/when topbox".
Cheers
I use my topbox on black top riding and my soft luggage everywhere else. I already have pannier frames and rear plates so it is easy to swap in 1 minute. If the top box is not appropriately mounted it will pop open or do damage to frame work. Most topboxes are only rated to 5kg. If overloaded snappo. Great review Palvin.
Thanks for sharing!
50 000km on my old restored Transalp 1987 in the last 5 years. 50% off-road. All with GIVI top box. Falls? Yes.... Scratches, no breaks. By the way, Yamaha and all the others made the bikes ready for loading a rear rack AND a passenger. Come on guys. Yes I feel it. But getting to stuff I need in the rain or any other time is immediate, no undoing anything. Will do the same on my 901 next month when I get the bike. Good riding season to all.
Use whatever you like.
As a student on fluid dynamics, i agree with you on the generation of vortices or turbulent as the aerodynamic air flow being perturbed by along motorbike motion. Side way winds could also cause distraction to the motorbike motion...something to think about. Between the tank bag and box ....tank bag seems better option. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for this information
My pleasure!
Givi big aluminum box on the tail for daily/weekend riding. But, when something heavy (not fragile) need to be packed, then soft side bags to mount all the weight lower. Plus small tank bag with quick release feature for camera.
Thanks for sharing!
Both top case & tank bag , but no big square metal boxes or hard panniers . If more storage is needed a soft water proof roll tote bag bungeed across the rear seat against a plastic givi type clip off top case . If you bust your top case lock ,you fix a hasp & staple & pad lock to case ,or wrap a cable net lock around it & rear rack. My rear rack comes as standard with bike & can take 15 kg ,the givi box is about 3 kg recommended to take 3 •5 kg ,I only put about 3 kg in it ,so have a good safety weight margin . The broken rack on that bike is a light sports rack ,with no extra bracing ,which is not meant to take the weight of a top box & contents , probably only meant to take about 3 kgs max .
Thanks for sharing!
I'm using plastic top box from shad with 38 liters and in my case this works perfect. I have it on my middleweight bike 500 class. Mostly I use bike for commuting, city ride, sometimes longer one day ride's. On the stop's I have place where I leave helmet and gloves at the same time I remove my u-lock to secure the bike. On the rides I have inside only some light weight gear like second gloves, gear to secure a bike, small emergency kit for tyres, small light portable tyres compressor, on longer rides some light camping gear like titan cooking set, other light small things. For me this works perfectly. It's light and aerodynamic (round and light plastic is for me better than heavier, non aerodynamic, and lot more expensive aluminum top box. In my opinion top box can be very useful when you choose and use wisely.
Thanks for sharing!
Top box also makes difficult to get on the bike for us that do a ‘kickover’ to mount the bike (I avoid standing on the pegs to mount). Top box great for running to the store for a six pack, but otherwise would not recommend unless riding a cruiser/big brick on long trips. Hard luggage (panniers) also a bad idea for offroad riding (Lucky, just a bruise getting hit during a foot dab in the sand).
Agree!
I have both motorcycle bags and top box. Sometimes I ride with either one over the other. Sometimes both. Case to case basis. Depending on weather, things to bring, weight, volume, duration of the trip, etc. Always a rider's personal preference. A must have.
Fair enough!
Long time ago I made extended trips with my bike (for example crossing big parts of Africa). At that time my tank bag it was big, big, big (perhaps it was called Elefantenboy?). There almost an entire house fitted inside. Comfortable it was not really. But a small tank bag like it was presented by you is probably something esential for long range adventure trips. I personally would have then in the back a more or less water proved soft luggage roll with perhaps even a big backpack inside for hiking tours. But for sure everybody has her / his own favourits.
Thanks for sharing!
I love the front trunk of my NC750X, fits my day pack while riding, then my full-face helmet when leaving the bike. But soft luggage is definitely more forgiving... Safe riding, thanks for another interesting video!
Thanks for sharing!
In my opinion on a trip…..whether you take a top box or not, a tank bag is a must-have. I keep my valuables and documents in it. I also keep cash in it for tolls. I use the GIVI type with the tank ring system. So easy to clip on and off, so you can quickly remove it to fill the tank with fuel or to take the the bag off and take it with you if you leave the bike when you get off for meals etc…
I think a better question is Top Box or Panniers or maybe both?
For me the tank bag is an essential bit of kit
Good point!
I have Givi B37 top-box on my street bike, and it is officially rated for 3 kg load and speed of 120 km/h. I use primarily to store helmet & gloves when I am off the bike, plus a portable pump, also carry some grocery in it. For offroad routes it is definitely not the right choice, soft seat bag would be much better (unless you have a passenger). I also have a small tank-bag with a quick-lock mechanism, using it time to time to carry small stuff when want my pockets to be free, but it may fit more stuff.
Thanks for sharing!
For me, it has always been a tank bag always, with a drybag strapped on as a "topbox" for rides one day or longer.
Thanks for sharing!
Ahh, good to see the camera gear organized Pavlin. A nice thing with the Nomax tankbag is that it works as a backpack as well. Great when leaving the bike. The waterbladder included is of great quality and could be used elsewhere, now when You need all space for gear. Happy trails my frend!
Definitely great quality! I won't use the water bladder and the backpack straps, to open more space for my camera gear, but I will share more in a review video. Thanks for the recommendation, Mathias!
@@motorcycleadventuresLook forward to see the detailed review. 👌 I have the earlier model called Nomad, I think the backpack straps are lower volume packed on mine (maybe, I'll habe to check when I see the Nomax again).
Okay
@@motorcycleadventures I didn‘t use the bladder on the older model Nomad either. I had the map holder connected with holds an A5 school notebook, which I used for turn-by-turn navigation ;-) and my map underneath for lookups if required.
The bag I mounted with rock-straps at the bottom end (left-right), to give the elasticity and re-stabilisation, also the quick length adjustment. I disliked the clunky clip bouncing around my streering with all the other cables around, but it never locked up or fiddled with them as I had feared before.
The Map holder is practical and a nuisance at the same time. With the bag being forward open I had it cliped close with a light small carabiner, the map holder though thanks to the wind coming into this open area was always pushing upwards, opening, if I hadn‘t clipped it together and bouncing around. That was on a naked bike and as it was much lower than your tenere it was manageable. I assume on your tenere with the screen the problem might not be that severe, but if so, then surely annoying so near to your view. Try that.
The Nomad not having the bag extention and being made from different material looks stronger/stiffer to me than the new Nomax, so that‘ll be interesting to me to see how solid that new one is. And how much additional effective space it provides.
For me a top box is a given as I ride a full dresser that comes with a built in tourpack. I don't really keep anything in the tourpack while riding, I use it as space to lock helmet and jacket up when off the bike for any length of time. I use the tank bag for storage or easily accessed items such as lip balm, sunscreen, phone and hard candies. Other than the phone I don't stress over those items growing legs and walking off. I'd be pissed off but they are easy to replace. If I was traveling off road on another bike I would ditch the top box for many of the reasons you mentioned.
Thanks for sharing!
Tank bag for me. I have one that can be extended so big that it fits way more stuff than the plastic box in this video. Of course I never use it fully extended because I wouldn't see anything behind it, but good to have that option. It is better to have the center of gravity higher between my arms than higher behind my back that makes the balance worse and pulls the front of the bike upwards.
Thanks for sharing!
I commute and drop off the kid at school and go on small trips with him on the back. As he’s quite small a top-box is a must, if nothing else to have somewhere to keep his trumpet. Apart from the luggage space and backrest function I love the fact that it doesn’t add to the width of the bike when filtering through traffic to and from work. I’ve added a SW Motech tank bag and I look forwards to have a water bladder, some snacks, papers and chargers and things. I think this setup will be great for our small excursions. For longer tours, especially when camping, I have hard panniers and if I don’t carry a pillion I exchange the top box for a duffle bag (or paraglider bag) that I strap down. I like having the Yamaha OEM top box and carrier, I think it balances out the rear of the Tracer aesthetically speaking.
This being said, the worst terrain I do is a well-maintained gravel road.
Thanks for taking the time and sharing your experience!
Lucky your son didn't choose saxophone.
@@jamessmith9786 He was deciding between the trombone and the trumpet. Lucky for me turns out the boy likes Louis Armstrong.
I usually carry my stuff in a backpack inside the top box (and the side panniers too). If I cannot use the topbox for any reason, my backpack can be tied to the rear seat, or strapped to the missus' back or to my own back if I'm traveling alone. Also, I can carry the top box with me to the hotel room if the need arises (although the extra weight really hinders sometimes). Thanks for the video, though, very good insights about the tank bag, I will start considering one of these for my next trip.
Thanks for taking the time!
Easy. Buy an nc700 series Honda.
Joking aside, I used soft side bags and laid down my 65L backpack across the rear seat and pillion these year on a long trip. The frunk on my nc700 held all my delicate or expensive kit.
Thanks for sharing!
Depends on the trip. For on-road trips, top box is not really a problem, especially if you enjoy your trip at lower speeds. Even hard panniers have their purpose, when you travel on the tarmac.
Wehn you go off-road, a top box and hard panniers are a burden, add weight and drag and possibly wobble to the bike, and they are prone to either breaking off the bike or breaking the mounts or the subframe, especially if your offroading gets a little rougher. Then the solution is soft luggage, well strapped and secured, either in the back or in the front, as you show with the tank bag.
Personally I do not use tank bags, and I don't really find any practical use for them, because I don't do things while I ride and I don't need ready access to anything. Of course, I haven't been on trips longer than 6-7 hours from "civilisation" and never abroad - yet. So maybe my experience is limited. I have to point out that I don't drink a lot of water because then I need to stop very often for nature calls and I don't record my trips via cameras, so the only think I'd do on a long trip is have a cigarette break every couple of hours and maybe a couple of sips from a plastic bottle, even when offroading in the summer with 40C+ temperatures. But then you've stopped anyway, and you've gotten off your bike, so you can open your duffel bag in the bag and take what you need.
Nevertheless, I've got many friends who do use tank bags and they consider them very convenient, eacch for their own purposes.
Thanks again, Pavlin, for sharing your insight and experience!
Thanks for taking the time!
This surely was a topic of great interest. I have the SW Motech aluminium cases on my V Strom 1000.
If I will buy a new motorcycle I will get something like the SW Motech Dusc boxes. They are lighter (plastic)
but you can use a side pannier as a topbox if you like. The recommended weight of the load in the alu cases
is 3 kg and in the lighter plastic panniers 5 kg.
Two times in eight years the bolts on my rack for the topbox have broken. I have been lucky both times and have
not lost the topbox. Now on my daily short rides I use a Kriega US20 tail bag for tire repair items, compressor
and first aid kit and a water bottle. If I go on a longer trip with my topbox I use it for raingear, extra layers, gloves etc.
No heavy stuff. I have not experienced any problems with riding my bike with the topbox. I sometimes also have camping
equipment across my passenger seat. The V Strom is a heavy bike and can carry some weight. I don´t do offroading
other than good gravel roads or a short single track to a camp spot.
Thanks for sharing!
Great video, as usual.
The Mosko Moto tank bag is used on my off-road bike and street bike because of the water bladder that I am constantly sucking on in the heat of the summer, plus the window on top is handy for paper maps. Yes these bags are pricey, but it is absolute quality in every detail. Buy once. cry once.
The Hepco & Becker top box is used only on the back of the street bike when I am riding two up because it gives my passenger a back rest with a more comfortable riding experience. We generally have only light quick grab items in there. The H&B are expensive as well, but the quality is NOT there to justify their cost. Bought the top box with the frame to fit my street bike plus two panniers online sight unseen and I have to say I have total buyers remorse on that purchase.
One thing to think about. On most bikes the TOTAL rating for the tail is around 10kg (22 lbs) or so. I, like many others, have been guilty of overloading the top box and, because of the geometry the top box hangs past the rear axle, this WILL lighten the front tire causing a possible unsafe riding condition.
Thanks for sharing!
Great vid makes seance personally box for local city use tank bag can be nuisance but agree with pros/cons givi boxs are stronger than you think and tip allways put strap around it
Thanks for taking the time!
Mostly ride a 1200 Wing. Top box and bags. I can fit a lot of groceries in it. My buddy rides a Tiger. He has a small tail bag now and wants a top box for travel. He doesn't like side bags because it is too wide. I usually put a tank bag on my Wing for small stuff: glasses, gloves and anything I need quick access to. Even food.
Thanks for sharing!
Top box for around town and shorter trips, I'd say. Very handy for helmet storage or carrying some groceries. Soft saddle bags for longer trips like you do Pavlin, no argument. Tank bag is great for longer trips, I agree. To keep passports, phones, maps, etc. I lost a top box, it rattled loose. I crashed and broke a top box off the bike, big problem. How do you then carry it around? If you don't have straps you have to throw it away, plus the stuff inside it. Once again a very nice video.
Thanks for taking the time and sharing your experience!
I love my Touratech top box but you did convince me to leave it home for a BDR trip I’m planning
Good!
What about soft top boxes? I was considering just this, as you have rightly pointed out that hard top boxes secured to our bikes will fail eventually but a soft top box tied down with secure pac mesh. I will need a top box of some kind, because my wife will fly out to join me every few months and without a backrest for her and extra space.
Much better than the top box. I just want to see it all the time.
Top box all the way. Keep tire inflator, tools, snacks, or whatever in there. Far more practical solution.
Fair enough! It is practical until it is not!
Hm, I put heavy stuff like inflator and tools at the bottom of a soft side pannier. Only light weight stuff on top.
Just my opinion.
@@chrisssinstockholm I do the same...max 5 kg. of total weight in the top box. If I can load it with less - even better.
@@chrisssinstockholm If we are talking panniers aswell then that's a different story.. Might not even need a top box.
Thanks once again for your qualified discussion of this topic Pavlin. Where we place the weight on these bikes can really affect how they ride (particularly off-road) which - let's face it - is the reason we do this in the first place. For the ride! Unfortunate that the Yamaha has that type of fuel cap, as it isn't ideal for the tank bag. At least the Honda has a flush cap. I would still prefer the type of tankbag with a clear panel, as you previously used, as I still tend to rely on paper maps for the most part. I have a GPS, with all its wonders and shortcomings, but have travelled mostly by paper maps for well over 50 years now.
One reported 'con' with the magnetic type tank bags is that they may scratch the paint a little, but in 'adventure mode' we shouldn't be too precious about this. But once again, I find myself in total agreement with your view of these matters. I have been minimising the weight of my bikes and gear for many decades at this point, and have always avoided having too much weight placed behind the rear axle for all the reasons you mentiion. A duffel-type bag on the rear seat is preferable, being flexible (and lighter) like other soft luggage. I often use a backpack, as that doesn't weigh down the actual bike, and moves with you.
And your largely unbiased opinions would be best described as 'objective', rather than 'subjective' (if I heard you correctly). (Subjective is roughly the opposite of objective, and implies that you are affected by biases or preconceptions). I only mention this as your English is quite excellent, and quite sophisticated, for the most part. Much better than my Bulgarian! Like your commonsense (which is often said to be not that common!) it is very easy to listen to. Thank you.
Thanks for taking the time and sharing your experience!
Pavlin, thanks for the video.
I always hated why my Harley can't have accessories for top BOX. Now I know why. 😊
Any time!
It can. But hmmmm, it‘s not a favorite on the market. ;-)
Like always a perfect analysis of the accessories.....❤❤
Thanks a ton!
I know a guy who had his Givi top-box frame break off. He set it well back and the vibration caused fatigue. You cannot swing you leg over and I personally hate them .
Thanks for sharing!
Tank bag for me. I’m riding not caravanning. I don’t even camp off my t7 as it’s too difficult to carry a firearm, bow or fishing rod. I’ve got hard and soft luggage but loading it up is like dancing with a large lady that’s carrying meals for 3 days. I ride a lot of off road at a reasonable pace.
Thanks for sharing!
Top Box is for me, coupled with a waterproof panier bag secured to the pavillion seat gives me easy space to throw fragile items (pastries, locally brought food etc) in the box along with a power socket for charging my devices. I have a large plastic tank also which does'nt help.
Fair enough!
The other advantage I I found with tank bags is the fact that it makes the bike a little bit lighter by removing a little paint from the gas tank every time you use it. And I must say by looking at the average rider, nobody seems to care if their bike stays in good shape aesthetically.
I prefer my bike to stay scratch free so that’s why I use a top box that doesn’t touch any painted surfaces.
Fair enough!
Hey Pavlin, always awesome to see your content.
It's not a clear cut answer as it seems. It differs from bike to bike, depending where the bike carries most of it's weight, front or back.
I bought my 2000 Honda Africa Twin back then with a factory 45l top box that fits two helmets very easily and I have been all over Southern Africa with that top box on. The fact that the AT carries its weight low and mostly on the front wheel, it never felt unsafe. In fact, the only way I could achieve a top speed of 200km/h was with the top box on the back. Somehow, it seemed to have behaved almost like a car boot spoiler when I tuck in behind the screen, adding more traction to the back wheel and less wear on the back tyre. Without the top box, I always ended up at about 190km/h top speed. So, that's that on the wind tunnel theory.
That said, if you fit that same top box on say a Kawasaki 650 or 1000 Versys that wants to lift the front wheel at any given opportunity it will absolutely cause instability I think at high speed as you pointed out Pavlin.
I now have a 2017 Africa Twin 1000cc and I wouldn't want to take my top box on serious off-road rides because in the past two decades everyone asked for lighter and more powerful bikes which my newer Africa Twin suffers from. The brackets and even the side stands are not as strong as they used to make it back then and that has become a weak point unfortunately on most bikes to save weight.
I have found that if you do use your topbox off-road and don't have a pillion, you can add another bag onto the back seat and tie it down and the top box to it. That will cause less movement of the top box and the bag holding it, will support it as well being mounted to the seat. So, it's not all that bad. It also attracts less criminal elements, regardless wether or not they can break into as easily as a duffel bag. The same principal applies to how some world travelers use a bike cover in a parking lot just to draw less attention to the bike, bags, mounts and everything else on the bike.
I'm now also looking at a tank-bag to secure my phone, coz here in Africa you dare stop at a traffic light with your phone mounted to the steering. They will snatch it.
Greetings here from South Africa,
Brian
Thanks for sharing!
Givi has very good reliable frame for top box for tenere 700, but if you are going to do some extreme off-road soft bags are the best option
Okay
There are also very solid tang bags that don't use straps to connect to the motorcycle with rings and can lock into place + put some locks on the zippers......But they are heavier, expensiver.
But I use mine as a chest rest and ride for hundred of kilometers without even feeling any problems, and it fits almost eveything I need for a 2 day trip, even a 3 day trip..... Con is it's the size of a helmet :))
I also love a very good tank bag and side mounted bags/bag on the tail.....best way to travel.......Although you need to be more carefull where you leave your bike, because bags can get cut with a knife faster than aluminium....
Thanks for sharing!
I have nothing against topcases, but I need to tell you about some hidden feature of every one; if you want something destroyed put it in your box without any filling so it can move freely and go explore some backroads 😅
🇵🇱🤚🇧🇬
True
I had a 50liter topbox on my motorcycle but when its loaded and there is strong winds it becomes dangerous and the motorcycle doesnt handle well. I switched to soft luggage and never going back.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I hope that many will make the same decision!
Applications are different. Top Box is ok when commuting within the city. For long trips with off road trails involved, tank bag is a better option but only if it doesn't compromise handling when riding in standing position.
Agree!
Wish i could use a tank bag, convenient, but i hate it being in my way to move forward. I use saddle horn bags on sides of my tank instead myself. I do use a shallow tail box but it's left mostly empty except for the nights food/beverage, usually end of day load.. For me, great setup
Fair enough!
Top box in the city, soft pannier for offroads and long trips. The simple the better.
Good!
Top box with lock good for traveling in busy areas 👍
Soft top bag like the Lonerider 48 l good for traveling in remote areas.
The beaver tail/lid is very usefull.
Tank bag. I will never use one.
The Rade Garage tank kit offers a 2 l glove-box for my KTM 890. Perfect.
Thanks for sharing!
I watched many of your your fantastic videos and always grabbed my favorite drinks, now My wife is complaining that I drink too much 🤣
That is awesome!
I always travel with 1 big waterproof bag on the back seat of the motorcycle or on the rack (with stuff I only need when I arrive at the Hotel or my destination). And I use a Tank bag for all the small stuff I want to access quickly (Small snacks, Water, Map, Camera etc.). I will never ever travel with a top case in long distance. I had a Topcase one time and I crashed the bike (lowside at around 30kmh or 40kmh). The Motorcycle wasnt badly damaged. But the topcase was not usable as the plastic broke in half. Imagine your topcase breaks in the middle of nowhere on a long trip and you must put your stuff from the topcase to your other bags which are already full. Yeah im not risking it.
Thanks for sharing!
Had a huge and heavy top box and hard panniers on my Aprillia Tuareg 660 and it made it so heavy and I hated it off road. I actually never liked that bike much at all. The only time I liked my top box is when I went to the mall and left my helmet in it. Literally the only good thing that it did and I could put groceries after. Now on my 2024 Tenere 700 that I got last month I will be going with Kriega US drybags system.
Thanks for sharing!
In my case Pavlin , you are preaching to the converted. The more trips I do the less thnigs I carry. In fact now on proper off-road trips that I do in pakistan, I no longer use my 250cc adventure bike, instead I have converted my Yamaha YBR125 to 200cc with an engine swap and it will now climb any incline at the high altitudes that we have. I use a small tank bag for my camera and a half empty 60l bag on the bak seat. It is more than enough.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Pavlin,
Like usual great video, I really love how you explain everything, and leave it to everyone to choose the best option which suits you!
Want to ask you something from your latest trip to Magadan. What currency you have in Russia 🇷🇺 except rubles, I sow how you take the money from ATM in SperBank. Is it possible to use Visa, Mastercard or other cards from European Banks , or cash 💸 in what currency is good to have it.
Sorry for questions not related to this video, much appreciated if you have time to reply or advise.
Igor
I used only Rubles. Visa, Mastercard, or any other system does not work there. Only MIR.
@@motorcycleadventures That's what I thought, what is MIR?
I Agree with all your assessments but dislike top boxes or anything at the rear that encourages pillion passengers to lean backwards and thus front feel lighter
Fair enough!
Another Point against a top Box is it makes it difficult for some passengers to climb the Bike. Who havent seen those acrobatic moves 😂😂😂
True!
Btw this is a good topic. Make more about storage/luggage options
I will, thanks!
I like having the touratech top case on my r1200gs mainly to put my helmet in, when off the bike. However I did notice that it catches the wind and moves the bike around. So lately I leave the top case off on trips and use waterproof duffels. Been thinking about a Mosko Moto 30 liter duffel for trips
Thanks for sharing!
I always have a tank bag for all the reasons you mention. If I am onroad only I sometimes take a top box but never without panniers. A motorcycle with just a top box looks like the pizza delivery guy
Thanks for sharing!
mosko moto Nomax tank bag v3 is a must, so nicely engineer, but you will do a nice video so no spoil. on honda CRF300 and GS1250 it is my favorite.
We shall see!
I disagree, while I love the Nomad to death, just as much as I love my ultra-old-school Harro. But for proper Off-Road in mixed conditions or stream-crossing it‘s sheit. Dump it into a mud puddle, do it. Then come again and say it‘s a must. Even in multi-days of total rain, the humidity creeps under the shower-cape coming with it. Not a problem for short rain phases of 1 or 2 hours unless it‘s superstrong stormy. The proof is in their catalog, they realized they needed waterproof bags, too. Something Enduristan not only serves as Tankbags, but in their backpack range, too. Klim doesn‘t have that.
No need to worry. You can use either of them.
True
What about the cruisers that have their dashboard on the tank? I think on those you can't put a tank bag.
You can but not really practical.
i bought my ktm 890 with a top box from day 1.. wanted to look cool like all the GS bikes.. first offroad trip i fell and the top box corner hit me right in the spine.. it hurt for 3 weeks.. since then i've only used a tank bag from Enduristan which is extendable if i need more water or food on a trip.. and it feels so much safer and better and lighter!
Thanks for sharing!
I had a plastic bottle of water snugly wrapped in among my clothes in a top box. At the end of the ride, which was very rough and bumpy, I had an empty 2 litre water bottle and a lot of wet clothes.
Free of charge washing machine! Next time add some powder.
I think you meant to say objective instead of subjective. But I get what you are saying. Also a tankbag has it uses, but when using the straps you will sooner or later scratch your tank, especially when using offroad.
I said "as objective as possible..." and this is what I meant, but sorry for my English)
I have the smallest option from Giantloop. fits perfect. 6 liters only.
Thanks for sharing!
Great video! I think you kinda got aerodynamics and weight distrobution messup around 11:00. The top box definetle worcens the aerodynamics of a bike. But so does a tank bag. YEs teh tank bag is usually hiden behind the windshield but the top case is hidden behind the rider. And as the rider is the biggest aerodynamic disruption on the bike a top box won`t produce any significant drag or disturbance compared to the rider. But any way from your expalnation I think you were reffering to the weight distribution and there your point ware valid.
A specific turbulence is happening between the rider and the top box.
I use both.
Fair enough!
where did you get that stove and flue ,never seen one like that before
You can find it in Bulgaria
Wrong aerodynamics?! Well we drivers sitting on a motorcycle impacts already the aerodynamics ;) it has impact on the weight distribution however to be honest adventure style motorcycles don’t matter much. Having a soft bag behind can have similar effect. It is a dilemma and no clear winner. It all depends on the use cases. Thanks for the insights. Helpful as always :)
Thanks for taking the time!
I have been running pelican 1430 top loading side cases on my 2017 vstrom for daily use and depending what im doing its dry bags/backpack ect strapped to the rack for traveling. I have never got into tank bags, it just so weird to me. anything I need handy is in my pockets. my biggest hang-up is the fact the mounting is so janky.
Thanks for sharing!
I hate hard luggage. I travel very light (maximum 12 kgs) and around 30% of my luggage weight is tubes and tools to change them.
I am now planning to buy the new Himalayan which will have optional tibeless spoke rims and i can drop the tubes/tools and drop the weight even further.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks
Thanks!
Getting on and off the motorcycle is also harder for me with a box. Greetings from Switzerland.
Agree, forgot to say it in the video.
How you can compare 5 litre fuel tank box with my 58 litre back box? It`s completely different things.
True, and I cannot understand why some people cannot get it!