"My, you just got home and want to play a chill game of your favourite killer, The Trapper? I hope you remember your last game yesterday was a 4k, because here comes Team Eternal!"
i've encountered members of eternal in the past, they're pretty chill actually. they don't normally try to just destroy you. I was playing billy pre-buff though.
Well said. I was furious, I am a sweat on DBD.. if I get hard games on killer, I expect it cause I also play to improve each match. We finally get a game mode that goes more down the horror/fun experience as something fresh and new, and you get clowns and chucky’s tunneling and trading of hooks against literal blind survivors. Actually pathetic, makes me see red. 😂😂
@@sillysokka1130 I've seen killer players claim it's "too hard" to spread hooks or something, but I had a lot of fun playing killer for the spooks. Only one team (of identical Dwights so 4-man SWF likely) really pushed me to play more seriously, but even then I avoided tunneling intentionally.
Some people only care about wins, and derive their fun from that. In on itself, that's not bad, but when expectations don't meet problems occur. What BeHaviour could do in the future for game modes (assuming they want to avoid the rampant tunneling and camping that happened in Lights Out), they could implement stronger anti-tunnel and anti-camp measures.
Definitely. I haven't played Bubba in months compared to some killers but when I started playing him, the players I've been getting for him have been sweat squads. I don't get it.
and reaching the cap is super ez cause if most people run noed yopu will reach high mmr with no chance of derank vs suads stomping you gg. thtas why we preach if you learn a killer, no perks no add ons, winnings is not your prio there. @@opticsf34r90
Killer has both individual mmr and overall mmr, if any of your killers is much higher than the average, it’ll drag all of them up towards the cap, doesn’t matter if you don’t play 1 individual killer, he’ll be near the mmr you get on your best one
DBD has always been taken too seriously to the point where some people base their entire self worth on their game performance and will go to insane lengths to win including cheating, it's strange that people even pretend it's a casual 'for fun' game. Also twitter is just a bunch of lost people hoping to find controversy out of nothing to try to feel like they're part of something important (delusion), farming controversy is a given there
Any multiplayer game is going to have people that take it seriously, that's just common sense. If you want a casual mode on this game then start demanding an actual ranked mode.
@@kltil5082 Ranked modes form what I saw in other games aren't that. They mostly split into players who take the game seriously to get a badge and people who take the game seriously because their life depends on it (like literally, I feel like ranked modes can be chiller than casual ones, despite ranked games sucking because people are competetive - and they're usually aware that toxicity works against them, while casual ones don't).
for me games feel actually more balanced. On average i get 2,5 kills which is what devs want killers to be if they say 60% killrate. And on survivor nothing has changed for me.
for the first time in history, ever since i started playing in like 2017, ive started to just bring insta heals and commodious, bnp toolboxes every game or the team just loses to all 5 gens getting surged, popped, pain res'd and call of brined lol, i cannot escape the sweat, i must join it. atp i'd just rather have old ruin back
i feel like they are already taking certain steps towards a ranked mode version, seeing as how they divided up the new game menus. Or at least I hope that that is the reason for the re-organized UI layouts.
a ranked mode (or a casual mode ig since the ONLY mode we have rn is ranked) is honestly a great step in the right direction that I've asked for repeatedly for years.
I was melting when Chucky came Out. One of my favourite movie series. Guess What. I couldnt bring myself to play a single match with him. My last 100-200 Games were all sweatfests that were more infuriating, than fun and after a Break, I dont wanna get back just to rage. The longer the Break, the less drive I have to even play.
@@MrHellzone That's not entirely true. You're half right. Every killer does have their own MMR but you also have an overall total. This means when you pick a new killer you won't necessarily be getting newbie survivors. If your overall MMR on killer side is super high, you'll likely get either average or decent survivors for a couple of games or so before you start getting sweaty ones.
@@MrHellzone every killer, even the ones you don't play, trail slightly behind your highest mmr killer. So if you're nurse is 200 mmr above soft cap, every one of your killers are above the soft cap and in the highest bracket of difficulty
Played the game since release, and I’ve recently stopped, catching up on single player games I’ve missed, it’s been nice not playing it anymore honestly it’s not what it used to be.
Literally why I stopped playing. I don't mind getting skill diffed, but when you go on a 10+ losing streak (or close to it) you just go, "What's the point anymore?" I 9/10 times will have to fight just for one kill. Can't play who I like to play otherwise I get nothing, as well as everyone just tbags mid game and at the exit gate which just farthers the point of, "Why do I even play this anymore?"
@zakanater1 I overexaggerated to get my point across. It's more like 5 or 6. But I do know my friends who I try and turn onto this game will lose more than 10 and get frustrated, and I dont blame them anymore. I barely have 1 killer prestige 11 (ghostface of all people) , but all I can seem to go up against are a team of 80+. Even if I dodge now I'll still get them same outcome. Sometimes worse, bro I swear I was on a losing streak and I got matched up against a swf p100's!!! I said screw it bc that's what I'd be getting all night, barely got 2 hooks! I'm not a pro, but im far from new. If the MMR system is supposed to work the way it's intended, I should be going up against average even above average players (to make me lose).
@@zombieslayer7776 Of course you overexaggerated, which is why all of these youtube comments coconut uses as "evidence" is stupid as hell. None of you are being honest, You're making shit up about friends that has never happened, and i guarentee you still have a >50% winrate on killer, most likely much much higher. I had a p100 player named "tiktok nea" join my lobby last night, be afk for 60 seconds, fail a flashlight save and instantly give up. The day before i had three members of one of the top 10 comp teams in dbd, on a killer i never play. Complaining about MMR is copium. Legit just play straight games for like 3 or 4 hours and record your winrate. I bet you're nowhere close to what you're imagining. Sometimes you are going to lose. That is how multiplayer versus games work. You don't get to win every time.
MMR is shit, but I found most success with Ghostface stalking these good players through gaps in objects, above buildings and not giving them free hits, instead, lean stalk them once you get to an open area. Also, bait them into coming to take a hit, make it seem you are tunneling someone, and down them. Better yet, camp someone on the hook and force a hook trade, just for them to give you yet another down. If you do it correctly, nobody can come save ever and they do not even know they're 99ed.
you play solo for 3 hours one day the next you que up with friends for 1 game and the killer is just comp, i get it "skill issue" haha so funny but it is still the point that this happens 1 win : 10 lose. havent played dbd for 2 weeks once and i get on with a friend and it becomes a swet fest or us getting off after just 2 games. @@zombieslayer7776
I'm having a hard time understanding that DBD is meant to be a casual game. The grindy nature of the progression, the blatant toxicity and high skill ceilling doesn't really fits the casual experience. I'm very casual and gave up on DBD a while ago, but the game is really enteraining to watch so I keep up with some content.
The most common argument is that “the devs said it’s a party game, therefore it’s a party game.” I stopped watching spooknjukes for that reason: I got into an argument with one of his community members who kept defending the game as casual and shitting in people who take it competitively only because the devs said so. When I pointed out that the devs they were praising so much also once compared this game to hockey, I was promptly timed out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A game can be casual and also require lots of knowledge to master. You wouldn’t call something like those trivia jack-box party games competitive, non-casual games just because to be “good” you need a lot of trivia knowledge. In ye old days of ranks being your rating (even though they didn’t actually mark anything except perhaps playtime), the game felt more random and therefore more fun. Nowadays, you gotta lose on purpose to maintain fun, or else you get really good players that aren’t fun to play against, especially if you’re not running meta killers/perks.
@@ghostflame9211 He's by far the most "casual" of them all lowkey. Other than that one bozo who plays only custom matches with his friends and that gets called content
@@ghostflame9211I've never been a fan of echo chambers, drama farming + "it's just a videogame so I can play how I want" tbh. Yes, one can play how they wish but you can't expect your opponent to be happy if you use cheesy, cheap or unsportsmanlike tactics to win e.g. basement Bubba is so boring to go against, you just sit on hook for 2 minutes. Wow so much "fun". 🙄Everyone has a right to their opinion, but that's a bitch move to time you out if you were being civil and no mods/streamer told you to stop. At least Coconut provides different opinions and thoughtful discussions, Otzdarva gives us tons of juicy intel and through Hens333 I get to see how a competitive player would play DBD.
I do same thing with survivor tbh, do gens to help the team, play hyper altruistically so I can say I died helping the team, offer the killer a kill if it gets to endgame. Hell it's why I get less salty now with tunnelling killers, wanna tunnel? Fine, have fun facing Team Eternal next game fucker :) Same with sweaty builds, Artist with Devour build on The Game who tried to offer me hatch? No you played like a sweaty bitch, take the 4k you want so badly and enjoy tougher opponents.
Want to know something funny? I like to do that until I hit gold ranks as Killer. At that point it gets very difficult to advance without killing the survivors.
Exactly this. If they truly cared about playing casually then none of this sht would be a problem. They don't, they're just entitled people using this narrative as their excuse. Just read a comment from an entitled killer main mad about getting games where 2 people escape. In other words, literally mad about a balanced match. And on top of it whining that "he just wants to play casually and he's sick of having to try". Like there's no helping some people, they've buffed killers into oblivion and the problem still exists. Why? Because entitled people are never happy.
@@kltil5082 My only gripe when I play casually is depipping. For example on killer, I have 4 pips and I need one more to get a grade above. But Im not in the mood to sweat, I wanna goof off with the survivors. And I do that the next match. I farm with them if my tome challenge allows me (like break pallets tome challenge for example) and I just do stupid shit, like playing the piano on Dead Dawg or pretending it. Just having fun and letting the survivors have a chill time from the stress. But then I get punished by depipping. Which I technically get since I let them all go resulting in a 0k, but since killer/survivor grades arent representative of your rank or mmr and no one but you can see your grade, why do we depip? I never understood that part.
@@kltil5082 I readd the comment you're talking about, he doesnt seem mad about only getting 2k's, he said the matches feel balanced and he's fine with them. he's just exhausted afterword's due to the massive amount of mental effort put into playing at his best at all times. He outright calls it fun and all you do is call him intitled. I think you're just looking for reasons to be mad at people. Please shut up.
@Ghosta085 funnily enough I worded my comment in a way that this argument can't be used. I took that into account before typing my comment and I agree with you that winning is more fun than losing. What one has to realize is, if you fall under the ideology that winning=fun then you have to admit that the idea of "competitiveness" (aka: the desire to win) is the main concept that they focus on, and therefore the game should head towards a more competitive direction and not a casual one, therefore making players who claim "casualness" (aka: unconcerned with results) just simply hypocritical at a base level. Sorry if this doesn't make much sense I'm on 2 hrs of sleep haha.
Maybe the best choice would be to revert the SBMM system and instead have Competitive in a separate gamemode, where you need to load up a SWF and there are restrictions in place for items, maps, perks etc. They could even have different weights/restrictions depending on the killer if necessary, to better match Comp DbD rules. It'd give more competitive players the outlet they'd want, while letting regular DbD be more casual. Sure, some sweats might go into pubs for stomps, but that has always been possible, and this would let such behavior be called out for what it is. At this point, it'd be a good way to add an extra gamemode and introduce people to competitive DbD, while preserving/saving casual DbD.
And it's a self-fulfilling cycle. The Killers get harder teams as they win, so they have to do the best loadouts they can. Meaning they're occadionally paired with survivors that aren't doing that. Either because they were part of a team when they got all those wins and are solo queuing. Or they just got lucky or were on their A game. But then they get back to back matches with super optimized killer builds, which then makes it so they have to do the same just to be relevant.
Yes then survivors scream like children and get the killer perks nerfed while theirs goes untouched and killers have to resort to things like tunneling as all other means of playing the game have become more and more difficult.
@@NameIsDoc You speak as if Killers don't complain about things too. Like MFT, Flashlights, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, or literally any second chance perk or perks that make them slightly more annoying to chase.
@@SuperSpells mtf was completely broken had a 60% equip rate due to being broken and lasted a half a year before it was nerfed, flashlights were buffed (just because you can't click spam doesn't mean it's worse), dead hard had a 70% equip rate and was busted it needed a nerf but it took literal years to get it even looked at meanwhile killers got major nerfs to their perks within 2 weeks of any changes or premieres. And one second chance perk is fine but at one point survivors would equip 3-4 second chance perks at a time meaning that in a chase a killer would have to hit a survivor 3-5 times not including if the survivor brought a septic.
As survivor, it just feels terrible sometimes. Getting camped and tunnelled is not fun. I just play for fun, I don’t mind losing but I’d like to at least get a chance to play.
Had a match against a knight last night that hard tunnelled a nea and then camped her in endgame. We could have gotten a 3 man out easily but probably would have de-pipped. We ended up giving the knight a 3K because none of us wanted to leave after having practically zero interaction with the killer. What I hate about this is if I escape then I win, but if I de-pip then that’s a loss so I feel almost forced to do risky crap in end game just to make sure I don’t de-pip.
@@hewmanbeing the best part of that is that the knight probably had just as awful a time as you all did. Balancing this game around exclusively kills is absolutely braindead and leads to as little interaction with the other side as possible from both sides. it's been this way forever and it's crazy to me that bhvr went with it despite KNOWING it wasn't going to work or be fun. but i guess it really shouldn't surprise me when dbd is their only really successful game
@@rpg1497 completely agree, I’ve been the killer in situations like that and it sucks. It’s on him for hard tunnelling though, like he literally chased her for all 5 gens outright ignoring anyone else on gens in front of him and only hitting someone else if they’re body blocking. Like he completely brought it on himself. We were on wretched shop too so it wasn’t a difficult map either.
As someone with ~6.5k hours that's been around since late 2018, this feels like deja vu. Did everyone just collectively forget that SBMM was originally introduced *because* people were.. complaining about how hard their matches were due to the variety in everyone's rank/skill levels or am I crazy? Now people are complaining about SBMM like they were our old ranking system.. fundamentally, nothing they do is going to stop this. You can't force people to be good or play efficiently, just like you can't force people to stop optimizing the shit out of the game and 'be fun'. Even if they were to add a separate competitive or casual mode - nothing is stopping people from going to casual modes to stomp out casual players. I mean look at the new game modifier they added, it's full of people being as efficient as possible. Survivors are running things that make them harder to see and killers are choosing to play certain killers that give advantages in the dark environment and game mode limitations (removal of the stain) like GF and pig. This isn't a Dbd issue. Hell, it's not even a video game issue. It's a human nature issue. If you want to play a game like this you just kind of have to accept that if you want to play to have fun, you might not do well. The only thing the devs can really do is try to make things as fair as possible - like how they assuaged the issue of gen tapping with the new regression change or the anti camp (even though it's.. not really doing much, but they tried). Its difficult to create a system to protect people from unfun/unfair things without that very system getting abused by the people it's meant to protect. That's why things like DS had to receive so many reworks to be viable but unabusable. In short I think people are too focused on the wrong things. SBMM was the system that everyone was begging for so that they could find matches with similarly skilled people and now that they've gotten what they wanted they regret it and want yet another knew system that will inevitably have the same issues.. those of us against the change to begin with knew that this was coming. Be careful what you wish for.
I will say, as a more casual player the losses stung a lot less when I saw the endgame screen and that the Survivors were all a subtantially higher rank than me, or that the Killer was a much higher rank than me.
If you don't want to play sweaty players, dont use sweaty perks. Its fine if you lose a game here or there, thats how online games work. Some people in the comments are digging their own hole and blaming the devs
Sorry but I don't get it. If you don't wanna sweat, then just don't sweat? Yeah you'll lose and your MMR will drop and then you'll get less sweaty matches. What people REALLY want is to not have to sweat and to ALSO win. It's entitlement. If you just don't want sweaty matches, then STOP sweating lmao. You sweat your ass off to win a sweaty match and guess what, your next match will be just as hard or harder. Play how you WANT and you'll get the matches you deserve. You don't get to just play however you want AND ALSO win every time.
I intentionally let two survivors leave after every game. Even if I could've easily gotten a 4k, I slug the second last, down the last and then allow them to wiggle out and leave. I enjoy DBD, because of the wacky stuff I can do while messing around with my "victims". The only issue is that allowing 2 survivors to leave is much more difficult and time consuming than allowing just one to leave. And well, allowing one to leave will still increase your hidden MMR, from my personal experience, so this is my makeshift solution that I've been using. I'm not good enough at DBD to sweat and I don't really wanna sweat either, so this is the next best thing. I'd also just like a casual queue where MMR and everything is just tossed out the window and I can face somebody on their third game of DBD or face team eternal, it's all up to random chance.
This game can't really be casual anymore, because there too many experienced players already, but they make many mistakes to punish which you must play "dirty"
The community needs a mode VS Bot with a difficulty level. So if you make 4k in easy mode, you make let's say 15k BP. In hard mode, you would make 25k for 4k and the Hard would be 35k BP. This way, no Tbag, no toxcicity, just relax practice time (with reward as BP). I'm sure the player base would grow! And it could help develop NEW PLAYER BASE.
Honestly good idea for people who just want to chill or get better, it would be a wonderful experience for new players, it encourages them to play more
Okay, im gonna say it. I think its time for a competitive mode with certain restrictions and matchmaking, then disable SBMM in casual games, or make it way looser
Haven't played in months since my laptop died, but my solo que experience (+1,200 hours) was mostly brain dead survivors playing against killers who played like it was always comp. I miss when the game wasn't taken so seriously, but tbh, I'm also kinda enjoying my time away from DBD.
In your own example you just cited 3 people who weren't taking it seriously. So clearly that isn't what you actually want. You just want the person you're facing to be easier.
@@kltil5082 I didn't cite 3 people... I said mostly brain dead survivors, that could be anywhere between 1-4 people at any percent that could qualify as most times. I don't necessarily mind playing against killers who are trying hard to win, they tend to be some of the best matches; but if you get matched up against players who are completely outmatched, maybe pump the brakes. Just my opinion.
The biggest issue of SBMM is that it FORCES people to tunnel and camp, because they are the best strategies out there and you will face teams who are unbeatable otherwise Either lose unwinnable games all the time, or resort to tunnelling and only playing meta killers. It sucks
Yeah agreed, I played killer tonight, cuz I had the bp modifier. I got sent to Eyrie twice in a row and then to Borgo twice in a row. Idk what the odds are but its ridiculous. And on a borgo match, I see the Steve is a juicer, he's a good looper and I wanna abandon chase to go after Meg, Nick or Nea. But then Sweatlord Steve is just chasing after me and not doing gens. I tried to play nice, but seeing as that wasnt going anywhere with Steve, I tunneled out Nick and Meg. It was either a 2K with help of Blood Warden or 0K. How can you not tunnel And then theres the stress. When you feel that you will do poorly on a map so you tunnel out the weak link so you can have an easier time after. I dont think I ever tunnel for fun, but more when Im stressed and believe that I will lose.
When i start getting nurses and blights back to back i just run dramaturgy by itself. Not gonna throw the game on purpose but thats what i do to lower my mmr
I think part of the problem is how the game chooses who gains or losses MMR A killer hooking 2 survivors and camping them to death is seen as more skilled than a killer that hooks every survivor twice, pressures them off gens, wins chases but only gets one kill in the end game while the other 3 survivors escape If you die saving a survivor who escapes, the survivor who is saved is seen as more skilled than the survivor that saved them and nearly escaped Every other MMR system isn't so black and white about MMR, and changes to MMR depend on everybody else's MMR, but in DBD it's just done so lazily Also knowing the rough mmr of the lobby after the game would be nice, just to see if I performed badly or that I was actualy going against godly survivors
I couldn't agree with you more, Coconut. Part of the reason why I actually taken a break/pretty much quit DbD with how sweaty and competitive it has become. It's just not fun anymore.
there should be dedicated competetive mode including draft, where survivors choose 16 unique perks one after another, and both killer and survivors are limited in terms of addons and items - simple as that
It's not simple but it would actually help vs people just saying "split casual and ranked." They need to make a ranked mode that actually has a difference in gameplay to support competetive play
@@trevorjones7897ok dude, I am a player who wants to win every game, I want easy games, I won't play in comp mode, it's better to bully casual players then to play against comp, that's simple
@@Maznevich Not sure what you're saying here, they are correct and it's surely why BHVR has not created a ranked mode: They know it's pointless and the annoying sweats will stick to casual for easier matches.
People Never talk about how each killer has a different ranking system. IRI Rank killers are going againts bronze rank players when they dont play their main.
Thats true, but depends per killer. For example I am a Trickster main, I can slay with Trickster. But as an iri killer I can still play Wraith relatively well even tho I never play him and I can get bronze or ashes. I can rack up decent wins on Wraith But then you have me playing Billy and Nurse, who even tho I never play them and my mmr should be low af on those killers, even tho I have the hours, I can still get a 1 or 0K on them because I havent mastered those killers mechanically. So I am rightfully as an iri killer put on low mmr there
@FinestFantasyVI The point is, Bronze rank players don't understand how to defend themselves with tiles. There pathing is awful. They sandbag each other and group up to much. Most of the time, you can snowball multiple survivors because they allow you to. You have a basic understanding how tiles work and what's strong. Beginners don't. The old system was more fair and fun.
I think DBD is in this weird spot where it doesn't really know what it wants to be so we end up with this awkward in-between of casual and competitive that reflects on the playerbase as well. You never know what kind of players you're going to go against until you actually play against them. You might want to play chill but your opponents want to play seriously which forces you to make a decision of: "Do I want to try-hard this match or do I want to play chill and /maybe/ get a 1k?". Some people after one sweaty match have the reaction of putting on sweatier perks as killer which in turn creates the problem above but for the opposite party. It's a constant cycle. Though the argument could be made that this is how every other multiplayer game works. Sometimes you go against chill opponents, sometimes you go against absolute sweats. So why is it so much more hard-hitting in DBD? My theory is that people want to believe DBD is something that it isn't. DBD is not casual but it isn't competitive either. You /do/ need good perks in order to keep up. You /do/ have to resort to scummy tactics sometimes if you want to 4k. You /can/ mess around with survivors and have little funny moments. You /can/ play with weaker / meme builds and acknowledge you probably won't win. I think it would be healthy for some people to start accepting this instead of trying to stubbornly say that DBD is something that it isn't. Players are experienced and know what works and what doesn't. At the same time, DBD is far too unbalanced for it to be called a competitive game and it /needs/ that unbalance of power in order to be fun and not repetitive. It all comes down to the players. Apex suffers of a similar issue, it's a hard game to play casually because even when playing chill you still need to put in effort and be on your P's and Q's And if you're the type of player that just can't put in a bit of effort in a game due to various reasons then that's not necessarily the game's fault. Maybe DBD just isn't suited for you or maybe you just need to come to terms with the fact that DBD isn't a casual game and that you will face sweaty killers / teams. Take every match as is. The main problem comes from the devs themselves saying: "It's a silly party game" when clearly that's not what they're pushing. They're pushing a pseudo-competitive game (like Coconut said) with the potential for silly, goofy interractions on both sides. My mentality towards DBD and enjoyment of it has been so much better since adopting this way of thinking about it tbh. TL;DR: DBD isn't casual and it isn't competitive. Players are too experienced for it to be casual and the game is too unbalanced for it to be competitive. You need perks to keep up. You need to put in effort to actually win and if you can't do that then DBD isn't for you.
Bro, PREACH! Also, I disagree that old ranking system didnt involve skill, it took some work to get to rank 1. I just really wish it was back. I miss sitting at green and purple and being happy with that experience, I feel like trying to escape on survivor now is hopeless, and most of the time killer is too easy or too hard.
I normally don't comment on your videos, but I gotta say, this was an EXCELLENT analysis on why MMR just doesn't feel right in DbD. I remember a long time ago, getting rank 1 on killer for the very first time. There was a sense of pride in accomplishing that, and it culminated in the visual rank 1 emblem I saw in post game lobbies. But I also remember, just a week or two after this happened, a lot of different DbD content creators I followed started releasing videos about the ranked system. "Why rank doesn't matter" "Why current ranked system sucks" "DbD needs more incentive to rank up" This all felt like a slap to my face as someone that had tried really hard to improve in this game to reach the highest possible rank. And ranks becoming invisible was met by an incredible amount of praise from those same content creators and much of the community. Something had to replace it, and thus MMR was born, and we all know how that's going for the game now. Imo, there was nothing wrong with the old ranked system, and there was nothing wrong about going for the highest rank and being proud of it. Can MMR and bring back 20 - 1.
And to counteract the experience of someone who got rank 1 emblem for the very first time in 2022. It was stressful as fuck as a killer. And because Im more of a killer than a survivor, people actually wanted to help me reach iri 1 "to become a survivor main", so i literally had a 3 man swf helping my sorry ass because it was that stressful and tunnely. I breathed relief when I did reach iri 1 for my achievement, but I dont see why do we pip down, if our grades dont represent our rank or mmr. No one other than us sees the grade, so why does one have to worry about losing pips?
Yeah back than it was better, sure it had its flaws but it was still better than mmr. Especially since you can’t get your mmr up unless you actually win. Back than you had to achieve a certain amount of points and you would get better team mates and killers. Basically it was evened out. Like I said it had its problems but ever since mmr is a thing the game hasn’t been playable at all. Not on killer and def not on survivor. As a survivor solo que main you bascially are stuck with bad team mates and no matter how good you play if you ain’t a god lvl player with 10k hours you won’t win cause your team does absolutely nothing. Back than I actually had competent team mates and now someone who shakes their heads up and down in super speed is the only competent team mate you can occasionally find and by that I mean a team mate that does nothing all game
@@kltil5082 The point of the message is basic sure, but I just thought I should share an annecdotal example to really encapsulate the issue. It's one thing to say "MMR doesn't feel right" and not back it up with anything, it's another to give an actual example of WHY the system feels bad in the first place, outside of the same rehashed "my games are way harder than before" point that I see a lot of people bringing up.
Having played the game since december 2018, my take is that BHVR aren't using the MMR like they should be. A good example of this is when they were proposing the healing changes. They were proposing it because the data they were receiving was telling them healing was way too strong at the time. But due to people not using the PTB as they should've to test the new healing speed/time, they instead decided to stack anti-heal perks to make it miserable to heal. The likelihood of a killer running all anti-heal is very low. If we want MMR to change we need to make changes as a community to show BHVR what we want and what the game needs. TLDR: BHVR needs to use their systems and data correctly. We also need to communicate with them better and stop this scream fest we're constantly in
I think rank based matchmaking would be sooo much more fun. I as a solo-que surv am losing around 75% of my games often times because killers play the most optimal way, which involves a lot of tunneling and proxy camping etc. I honestly dont really care about escaping or not but it feels really bad to loose because someone needed to sweat their balls off and run a disgusting build and add ons.
I was playing Lights Out with my brand new friends, and they were having way more fun in that mode than they were in the "real" mode. That's mostly because they didn't have to think about perks at all. All of the perks are fine to learn, but doing pub match after pub match makes it feel overwhelming to them. Lights Out actually let them focus on learning killer powers at their base level, and they had a blast doing it lol. I noted that, maybe a mode that doesn't allow perks or limits perk availability somehow would be excellent for newer players to cut their teeth in. Because sometimes in pubs, people that are new and don't have certain DLC encounter the most broken shit imaginable. Especially if those people are trying out killer.
A perkless "Pure" mode would be so good. No meta, just play. or perhaps a Wildcard mode. Survivors and Killers don't Choose their perks. They must Work with whatever the Entity gives them that round. Which i think would be more like how the entity would do it.
This was my experience. I played both sides. I had a blast because I could go as hard or easy as I wanted as Killer and NOT CARE about perks. As Survivor I found myself playing naturally more on guard, not like an action game - and it was fun. If Lights Out was permanent I would legit play no other mode. The game needs Ranked and Casual queues. Badly. The game needs to split the sweats from non-sweats. MMR doesn't fucking work.
A pub Blight 2k'd a comp team in a tournament while under their strict restrictions, and that's supposed to be the counter argument. So, without restrictions, he probably would have 4k'd. Comp players are so up their own ass that they don't even realize that they're not even that good.
without restrictions, comp dbd would be only top tier killers to have a chance to get kills/hooks. You will not see e.g. any demogorgon get more than 3 hooks at that level of coordination. I would argue that even on the most broken map offering, he would get 0 hooks 10 games in a row against some of the best. Due to practice, skill and coordination, restrictions are on both ends.
@@blacksuitedsonic fully agree, while artist I still personally claim to be in top killers, the point I want to make is that for certain killers there is all exhaustion perk restriction for a reason. My extreme case would be that having no restrictions above a certain skill threshold and mean intentions, these players would destroy almost anything that doesn't represent best and even the best in some cases e.g. ghost face on badham/dredge on gas station. Edit: would like to see that tournament to grasp more info as I am passionate about dbd. Any referral?
Well one, momo isn’t a pub blight he’s a very good comp player. Two, the point was that he wins 99.9% of games in pubs while looking at twitch chat n talking with his stream, but in comp trying his absolute hardest, he’ll get outed occasionally. I think that’s a good argument for comp being harder no?
I love how most of the arguments for competitve being harder qas "bro some of the best players get stomped by other really good players" when these same killers would get curbed in pubs by some average survivors just running full meta. At least in competitive both sides have to be skilled per the restrictions. In pubs, you can be average, and as long as you're running full meta, you can contribute like a pro player.
"these same killers would get curbed in pubs by some average survivors just running full meta" -> Bro, Momo literally has a 1700 GAMES WIN STREAK in pubs. So no, you're wrong.
@ylost2331 OK Lil bro has does that disprove the point though? Same people who do well in pubs do well in comp too and they have an easier time in conp because they don't have to worry about certain perks or strategies. Step down Lil bro and go take a nap
I just came back to Dbd from a long hiatus and if I’m being honest it feels easier then when I left for killer and easier then when I left for survivor I feel pubs got a bit better of course it’s harder to rank up for survivor because randoms but it’s still very possible and easier then before for me and still feels fair for me at least
I stopped playing dbd because competetive play in pubs is boring af, killers are comping while teammates are doing beginner shit, its not fun if you cant escape, get tunneled, sandbagged, and f*cked over by your team. Only way we will go back to ranked matchmaking will be if they add chill modifier and no one plays mmr anymore, or bhvr gets a brain.
MMR is how I went from a top 10 trickster to slowly becoming an 8 hook and farm Andy. This game is stressful. I don't have enough gametime anymore to sit and sweat. I don't want to. I don't want, or expect, easy wins, but realizing that my 3000 hours aren't that many compared to most, I still end up in lobbies with survivors with 6k+ if I'm lucky, people who know things I haven't even thought about. I don't know if comp is harder or easier. I don't care to. I know I did comp counterstrike back in the day and the rules existed much like they do in DBD: nerf the top end, balance the rest. 4 Adrens will never be fair. Nor will 4 dead hards, 4 unbreakables. But that's the expectation in every single lobby.
adrenaline is just a win harder perk. doesn't do anything with the gens still going. it's boring but its not that bad imo. ig run noed if you keep seeing it
@@Random_Commentor_On_That_Video adrenaline is run by tons of good players for a reason, as is ds, otr, bt, dh all that stuff. adrenaline lets you stay injured and not care. it counters slugging as well, and makes the save on the one hooked at the end even easier when they have it. it's an absolutely insane perk when ppl are smart with it, theyll even time it so that you hit them just before the last gen pops and then they sprint away while youre on cd. noed is not really an answer to adrenaline so much as it is a decent way to try and make the save at the end extremely difficult, because as long as they don't find it immediately the chances that you get at least that one or even 2 at the end is high
@@rpg1497 idk bro. if adrenaline pops i usually already am eating an L anyway. they have to have a dead perk all game until the gens are done and then see if it gets value. (*the following is midgame*) it doesnt counter slugging, help with hook situations, gen rush, heal faster mid game or help against snowballs. for every perk in the game someone hates it, and more people will hate perks that are used a lot because they actually get something done. no one wants to run boring perks that do nothing. it's just so inoffensive to me
Im a solo queue player and i rarely play in SWFs. I wouldn't mind the MMR nonsense if it meant raising my MMR gave me better teammates to go against the better killers it throws at me. But instead of gives me the same or worse teammates that cant run long enough to get any gen progress against the best comp killers with the best comp perks and its just not fun to play.
Finally someone points out the problem. Delete SBMM! I’m a 7 year veteran and I have noticed how awful games have been since artist released with SBMM. It’s got to the point where I feel like Noob3 I don’t enjoy the game anymore there’s always the expectation to sweat your balls every single game.
They need better SBMM, not none. With SBMM people should not be going against killers who know how to play well, while commonly getting survivors that do absolutely nothing and get less than 10k points, dont do gens etc. If you "feel like a noob" after they brought out SBMM, that just says everything about your gameplay. Get good, and stop basing the amount of fun you have on getting easy matches. How incredibly boring. SBMM needs to become more fine tuned, not abandoned.
I don’t understand how a company that is trying to improve to keep its player base happy and improve QOL is dying on the hill of SBMM. Every players it’s mother who said they want it gone. But no, instead we get lights out.
Its effort to remove or replace SBMM which they put a "Lot" of effort into making it count just kills and escapes. Even though they still have the pip system and it can be applied easily to the mmr in place of kills.
One of the devs (think he quit at this point) told us that since BHVR have put effort into Overheat, they shouldn't just remove it. I think you're more than aware of how the community handled Hillbilly's Overheat. Now apply that mindset into anything that they do that isn't a simple numbers change.
@@NameIsDoc Pip system literally had people who did not deserve to be at rank 1, something Coconut casually glosses over for some weird point, and depippers completely ruins Coconut's entire "you can CHOOSE YOUR PLAYERS" thing... because people depipped to get easier matches when they were either super sweaty and should be stuck at high rank/MMR or deserved to be at that spot to begin with because they were still too good when playing casually.
@@The_B_Button you mean how people derank now? Often to keep below the threshold. Or how people make smurfs and play in a swfs with them to drag their high teir asses down to low teir? And what makes you say thy were not deserving of being in the upper ranks? You could only get pips by being a team player instead of a selfish prick that the current system encourages now. Does a survivor that died running the killer for a few gens deserve a derank in our current system? Even if they were boosted there they are not locked into the high ranks and come the thirteenth they are reset back into the rank system like everyone else. Unlike the current system where a survivor can be boosted then stuck past the threshold.
@@NameIsDoc It was still a bigger issue BECAUSE people could see their exact rank, so they knew how to exploit it easily, which was the problem. "how people make smurfs" People are not spending 20 dollars to make smurfs for 2 days. Like, lmao "And what makes you say thy were not deserving of being in the upper ranks? You could only get pips by being a team player instead of a selfish prick that the current system encourages now. Does a survivor that died running the killer for a few gens deserve a derank in our current system?" Oh good shit, another idiotic "ONE OR THE OTHER" argument, this time it's "EMBLEMS OR SBMM". Why are balance whiners like this? They always go for the dumbest and most predictable things. Anyways, sorry to ruin this for you, but people got to rank 1 just by playing long enough. The current pip system we have now is what we had back then. And, uh, people typically float to red ranks if they play enough. Which was the majority of red ranks... which means it doesn't work. :) Also, Survivors want MMR because it gets them better teammates, Coconut has Killer players in mind when going on about SBMM. I know because he's using the same wording and structure as people who have said it's about Killer players dealing with "muh 4 man bully SWFs all the time". And, yes, rank reset every month so the good players were brought back into the bad ones every month, which was not fun for newer or more casual players! Was VERY fun for sweaty Killers though.
Wouldn't work the majority of players who claim to be comp aren't comp there just casuals who are trying there hardest to win the objective of the game is to win the only way for the game to actually change is for players to stop trying to win but if that's the case then players need to stop crying when they get shit on by someone playing within the games bound dbd is the only game where making the smartest play is frowned upon
i wasnt around when old rank system was a thing but from my 2000 hour experience, most of my matches feel balanced and actually fair now since the most recent mmr change... but sweaty af. Both me and survivors sweat their ass of to get our objective done, which results in mostly 2k for me. Its fun but after a couple of matches you are exhausted, while i believe when i could play more chill i could play way more matches in a row.
2 out and 2 dead means you just played a balanced game. You're not happy because you aren't getting matches handed to you on a silver platter is what you should have said. Entitled players are the main thing wrong with the game. So yes, please do stop playing you're doing everyone a favor.
@@kltil5082 2 survived is a tie. that happening every game is exhausting and annoying. variability in matchmaking would fix this where you get games you 3k or 4k and some you 1k or 0k. 2k is the most boring outcome to have happen multiple times. like going 15 and 15 in a cod match.
@@kltil5082 "Most of my matches feel balanced and actually fair now sense the most recent MMR change" and "it's fun" gee, he sounds so upset and intitled for calling the game fair and fun. He said litteraly nothing negative about the game or his experience beyond feeling exhausted due to the effort he puts in. Which is completely reasonable. Dead by daylight is a mentally strenuous game, especially when both sides put in all their effort. mind games, keeping track of perks, and making optimal plays, are not the easiest things in the world.
doubling down on this take is crazy, even after dozens of people that are fully in the comp community explained to you how and why this is nonsense, you could give 3 queens to the average chest player and they would still lose to the top chess players, running strong shit doesn't outweigh actually understanding what you are doing, which even the best pub swf groups don't
Those are great points. Something I heard a lot is that it's impossible to split the player base over the two modes now - all killers would flock toward the game mode where swf and stuff is not around, while survivors would be sitting on the other mode, etc. But having a ranked mode with rules that forbid certain add-ons and perks, essentially comp rules, might actually work. People would avoid it to run other builds, but people who want fair matches would use it. It could work. It never will, but it could.
@@FinestFantasyVI Basically if you stated an opinion on the Internet and you weren't rank 1 or at least red rank, people would bully you. Like if you ever interacted with a Facebook group or anything like that, people would have this huge superiority complex
@@cameronmurrell-byrd7738 Oh, so basically people would treat me like they do when I say that I like Trickster more than Huntress. Toxic af people who reject opinions and treat it as if you told them facts. I still get that a lot
@@FinestFantasyVI Exactly, but it's gotten better, since no there isn't a stat that people can point to anymore to determine your "skill" in the game. People can hate on you for liking trickster more, but they cant call you a baby gamer anymore
@@cameronmurrell-byrd7738 Pretty much. At least survivors dont use the hud icons to judge people what they're doing. Honestly that HUD is a godsend to me
I still to this day don't understand how a game like dbd has a comp scene😂. Have any of these dbd comp players even played comp on actual competitive games before? Why would they choose dbd?
Most comp players started this game when they were teenagers so this was their first "comp" game. The skill you aquire in dbd dont really transfer to other comp games. so they just stuck with dbd because they would get stomped in other games like dota 2. They are used to winning consistently in dbd and they wont have that dopamine hit when playing other comp games.
@Kerps123 yeah dbd Knowledge won't really help you in alot of the mainstream comp games for sure but if they are willing to sink 1000s of hours into dbd nothing is stopping them from sinking 1000s of hours into other games and learning
SBMM accomplishes a similar goal to rank-based matchmaking (RBM). Fundamentally, RBM has some positive qualities of being more transparent to the player, and (arguably an upside) having a hard reset every month. Additionally, I'd imagine the "softcap" is lower - my hunch is many more players would hit iri 1/red ranks than hit the current MMR softcap. Effectively, the player pool is larger and more diverse at the highest end. I 1000000% think this is a good thing - part of the fun, for me, in online games, is to have a mixture of easier, regular/tense, and get-stomped matches. It allows me to witness my growth/prowess as a player, enjoy tough matches, and also get humbled and set my sights once again on improving. SBMM really just needs a much more forgiving softcap to keep a diverse player pool. edit: also, BHVR isn't really pushing the game in a pseduo-competitive direction, at least not intentionally. it seems they just want all matches to be "fair" or at least prevent groups of survivors (majority of playerbase, i assume, and probably a lot of the casuals) from getting rolled by insane killers - thus, the tightening and tuning of SBMM. It just has the side effect of slowly pushing those at the highest level to constantly playing really intense, comp-feeling games because the skill pool isn't diverse enough for a casual experience. it's also "unfortunate" in a way the only thing that dictates MMR is your kills/escapes. This is especially punishing for survivors, I think. You can play well, get many pips, but still die and lose MMR. Funnily, for killers, you could play a disgusting and immaculate game, get everyone on deathhook, and just let them do gens and leave through the gates and derank. In the previous RBM system, you'd have to thoroughly throw in order to depip.
There is another benefit of rank based matchmaking too. You can spread out ranks where you can no longer lose rating as moment of respite in the climb where you can take a break and mess around before starting up the climb again. When I was playing Master Duel, my experience was that it was just as competitive as a SBMM system, but with islands where there was a decent mix of chill games and competitive games at rank 5 of each tier + diamond 1.
I think matchmaking could be better, but I've started thinking of the game as a real "party game", in the sense that, like in a real party game like cards against humanity, the game is as fun as the players make it. I think the devs are successful in making their game a party game, but I kinda wanted to talk about my experience playing dbd first. btw, I am neither killer/survivor main, I just play both. I just want to mention that I agree with coconut on changes to the matchmaking system to the old grade system that resets every month, but I believe that has some problems to it too. What I've noticed in my games in dbd lately, when I play killer, is that I have the option to play in the meanest way possible, or the nicest way possible. When I play mean, the game is incredibly unfun for survivors (because I slugged, proxy camped and tunnelled), and even though I 'won', it didn't feel fun because in thinking of it as a party game, I couldn't enjoy 'winning' at other's expense. When I play nice, it becomes fun if the survivors aren't trying super hard to escape or are not very good at the game, I have some fun chases and maybe I let people go if they struggled too much to get even 1 generator done. But sometimes when I played nice, the survivors try their hardest to win and the game can sometimes be unfun, depending on whether I can recognise quickly enough how serious they are playing. The same is what I feel playing survivor (solo queue or with a friend or two), games have generally been dictated by how the killer plays as to how much fun we have in this 'party' game that we're playing. We try to mess around a bit as survivor and don't care about escaping too much, we work on gens and try to get everybody out, often dying in the process and having a good laugh because of how we messup sometimes in our attempts. Sometimes killers play mean, and the match becomes difficult and stressful, we still try to get out and take the game more seriously in these games but sometimes ends up being a boring game. Sometimes killers play nice, either in a competitive sense where they 2 hook everyone, or like a friendly knight player that went easy on 4 Ada Wongs that were dancing around him. Although it seems I might be advocating that the game needs changes to fix the 'issues' of players that can play mean, I actually want the game to keep going the way it is, because I believe that the freedom of choice of how a player wants to play the game, is directly related to it being a party game, and if some people play mean on either side, that's their choice and we shouldn't limit their ability to have that choice. Some games will be rough and that's okay, the matchmaking might not be perfect, but it is attempting to separate those that try to play too 'sweaty' away from those that play this game more casually, so I'm not sure if changing back to the old system is the best solution, but it is an idea.
Thoughts on a points system for perks? Instead of getting 4 perks, you instead get something like 10 points worth of perks, where the best ones are 4-5 points and worst ones are 1-2. This would allow a much easier way of balancing the perks while still having a variety of perks, some naturally being much better than others. Admittedly, this would be pretty hard to implement and I don't think behavior would do it literally ever, but I think it solves a lot of problems.
The SBMM/MMR system is the same as the Rank system was just isn't visible. From the screenshots of old and the ones used in this video. The game takes the killers MMR/Rank and then ATTEMPTS to find a lobby that is AVG'd out to that as well. The one at 7:04 shows a Rank 9 Killer. The Survivors are 9, 11, 5, 8. Add those together and divide by 4 its 8.25 avg Rank for survivors. This is the same way that MMR/SBMM works now. Lets say the killer is soft cap 1600MMR (probably not based on old ranked system but for the ease of maths). Those survivors could be 1600, 1450, 1800, 1650. thats 1625 avg MMR. Which puts the lobby closer than the old rank system but its still within 1 "rank" worth of avg. It however is still all the same. Rank system matchmaking or MMR/SBMM matchmaking this will and has always happened
Used to play tournaments without any restrictions for survivor and only for killer which is a can of worms itself(old object and no tunneling allowed), but as both a killer and survivor who has never cared about running meta perks solely because every match would be the same and being stuck playing the same match over and over isnt fun anymore. Due to this, I have definitely been stuck in unwinnable matches that are harder than true competitive since I don't come into the game with the mindset of going for the win being my only fun and instead do my best to then laugh when I have been handed a plate of spankings instead of a winnable game.
I agree. Like the Wiretap exploit. He treats it as entertainment and gets confused when a teammate was pissed at him (for good reason). Meanwhile, (i know some hate him) Otz, at least when he shows an outrageous build/tech/exploit. He at least says that devs should fix it because its problematic and wants to bring attention to devs to fix it (Although the devs lack of ambition made him stop that) Back to Hens, he just showcases survivors how to be toxic abusing shits
@@FinestFantasyVI otz didn't used to showcase problematic builds. It was only after knowing Hens that his content started to shift towards more aggressive competition when he used to just showcase fun and memey builds that still worked well
@@Romeo-le2ez Werent those worked out by the devs? As in not in the game anymore? Im not a Blight or Wesker player, so even if it was, its not something thats easily replicated as simply stay on a gen and dont progress it over the bar
Whenever the most obnoxious and cringe thing happens that is related to DBD “pro scene”, it’s always V1 making a tweet. On a more serious note - as I’ve stated many times, if a game involves any competition whatsoever, it will get competitive. It doesn’t have to become en Esport, it might even not be able to, like DbD. But as long as you put two people in a room and give them flags of different colors, there will be competition. Moreover, this “meant to be played causally” is a weird thing. I am the kind of guy who doesn’t understand what “casual” is. I’ll never get into a tournament or smth, but with games - as with most things in life - I have a simple approach: either don’t touch at all or invest my time and soul in it, make it a passion, learn it. That’s how my brain works. And I’m also very competitive, so it is important for me to do as much as possible to win. That’s why I am good at my job, that’s also why my friends don’t play video games with me, but that is why I enjoy DbD more than any game ever before. And that’s why I can’t just “play casually”: it’s not fun.
MMR is broken. Few days ago I went to play as a killer. My 1st game was baby survivors P0 maybe 2-3 yellow perks, followed by a game with P100 where 2 players I could check out had over 2000 hours. It was jumping from one extreme to another.
Probably just gonna do this in video format at some point cause I got a lot to say about this but comment sections have a limit for the essays I can put. One thing I'ma talk about here is something not mentioned in the video at all. But something I'm seeing in these comments. And have seen a lot in general when it comes to this topic. Person A: Omg I just wanna have fun casual games :( Persona B: You can. Just don't care about winning. That...doesn't work. You HAVE to care about winning...to an extent. Even in a simple innocent game like tic-tac-toe, you're playing to win. I think what people mean by "Don't care about winning" is things like. "Don't play like your wife and kids are gonna leave you if you don't 4K/4 Man Out." "Don't play like your house is gonna explode if you don't win at 5 Gens/leave the Killer with 0 Hooks" But you still have to play the game towards your victory condition. Otherwise what resistance are you putting towards the opposition trying to achieve theirs? I think the biggest burden, is knowledge. You play this game for long enough and you get your ass kicked enough in your "Oh so sweaty" matches, and you just learn what to and not to do. Not saying Camp and Tunnel Killer Mains but you learn small stuff like "Yeah...at this point? Probably not worth it to chase the 0 Hook Survivor in an area with a ton of resources still and no Gens to defend." And I am just painfully more and more aware of when a decision is a game losing decision, and I wish I wasn't. But if I make that game losing decision in the name of "fun/not sweating", well now the game is just over. Cause I threw. And I'm getting T-Bagged anyways cause the Survivors are so convinced I just "FELL SO HARD FOR THE BAIT LOOOL". Like even "non-sweaty" Survivors are still just overall good. It just becomes second nature to Survivors to play well. Forcing the Killer's hands sometimes. Met a "chill" Survivor but they were still running every loop perfectly. As tightly as possible. Always holding checkspots. Never losing mindgames unless it's a 50/50. And immediately doing something productive as soon as I take two steps away from them. Like both sides are just burdened by good/decent gameplay towards winning becoming 2nd nature.
I see where coconut is coming from but he's forgetting that being unrestricted applies to both sides so there's really no reason for pub matches to be harder on paper. In practice yes you can have potentially very hard matches if you don't use meta setups against meta but the same is true in a comp setting. In comp you usually go against players around the same skill level, but in pubs if you're above average or good you will tend to go against weaker players. I do agree though that the core of the issue is pubs requiring more and more to play optimally because of how strong some perks are, but a couple bad matches doesn't mean pubs are harder overall.
I do understand a bit with the "knowing what you're getting yourself into" (and being able to equip appropriate perks/addons to fit the task). I hate that in pubs as Killer I'm all but forced to treat every single match as a super serious try hard SWF until proven otherwise. because if I don't, and I try to take it easy, and I'm wrong.,.. then by the time I realize it it'll already be too late to recover. And this means I end up often playing way too mean against players who didn't deserve it, and it's only later in the match that I realize I could've gone easier on them and had more fun myself as well as provided a better experience to the survivors (by taking more fun perks/addons or playing differently in the actual game)... if only I had known before the match started. Now, I will note that rank based match making does create a unique issue where players who's skill is "low" for their rank are going to disproportionately lose a greater amount of their games, get discouraged, and are more likely to leave the game. And as the lowest skill bracket slowly leaves the game, the next set of players "barely" above them becomes the new "below average for their current rank" and they now become the lower winrate who get discouraged. SBMM helps gaurantee that everyone, even players who play a ton but who aren't skilled, will have relatively balanced winrates as they have opponents who are actually matched to their skill.
Sadly the Light's Out mode is already being try-harded to all hell- let alone the sheer amount of cheaters. They think that since you can't see that getting 5 gens done in 1 minute and the gates nearly instantly opening isn't obvious, just cause they can hide the teleporting.
Coco, idk when you recorded this or if someone else already commented this... but the "Higher MMR Cap" was REVERTED at least 2-4 WEEKS AGO. I went from going against really good survivors who gave me runs for my money on my main killers EVERY GAME on EVERY KILLER to being able to 4k every lobby with my left toe on my worst characters. Regardless, talking about the improved mmr and making things harder, coco, WELL SAID. I get where youre coming from and i agree that behaviour did a horrible job with how they addressed changing mmr, they should not leave it in the current state that its in (reverted/old mmr cap) but make it a wider range with some kind of representation of progression. good vid and clarification
As someone going for adepts on both killer and survivor, i can confirm playing dbd is a massive headache 24/7. This last ditch effort achievement hunt for "fun" is shattering into a million pieces. I'm genuinely at a loss for words for how incompetent the dev team for this game is. If dbd released today in this state without the biggie deal licensed faces it'd die faster than any other "dbd killer" we've seen
Game has gotten too sweaty for me to have fun anymore. I've got 5k hours and I play both sides pretty regularly, leaning more towards killer, and I've had to stop playing nearly as much as I used too due to new mmr. Nearly every single match is an Uber sweat fest and I'm tired of it. I can't even play m1 killers anymore if I want to win consistently, had a clown daily a he's one of my favorite killers but I hate playing him anymore.
Which one are we talking about the one before this new one or the old one where you basically had to earn a rank and keep it to go up against good killers cuz I somehow liked that one the most even tho it had some flaws
Honestly to it feels like the new Lights out mode is meant to be the start of a hardcore mode. For survivor side: no perks, can’t see when your team is healing, can’t see gen progress, can’t see killer, can’t see gen completion, can’t see far. For killer: no perks, can’t see far, no survivor trail, can’t see gens completed. To me it looks as if they are attempting to possibly add a new hardcore play mode or add this as the new competitive play. Only think this could be a competitive attempt because the current competitive play requires players certain perks to no perks as well.
it also sucks that you could take a few months of a break but then the mmr system will remember that game a few months ago when you ended on a 4K and you’ll play against a comp team
Welp glad i went back to TF2 for that casual experience. Good luck yall who stuck with dbd but i grew tired of the tryhard mindset and I wish yall best.
In my experience, my matches haven't become harder consistently, the only consistent thing is I see stronger load-outs, which is expected when people anticipate the other side to also bring strong load-outs due to MMR. My opponent's skill is pretty low compared to mine so the system, to me, is still failing at qualifying skill properly and that seems like a given because escaping or killing Survivors is a laughably bad way of measuring skill since it doesn't consider how the player achieved that or what the other players were doing. Regarding a system to use, I heavily oppose the idea of bringing back rank-based matchmaking, and it just sounds like looking back at the system through rose-colored glasses. The system was hated so much because it failed to create equally skilled matchmaking (even worse than our current system) and was easily exploitable. You mentioned yourself how you can manipulate your rank, which was a major problem with it since players could do this to face players they shouldn't, and stomp them. There were so many posts about bully squads, asking "Why are these players even in my lobby", and how it isn't fun to deal with any of this when the player wants to chill or is a new player learning the game. I didn't try to rank up quickly, but I often played, so I reached rank 1 relatively fast, much like many content creators, who back then, still complained about facing super sweaty teams, often SWFs, bringing the second chance build, strong toolboxes or med-kits, maybe map offerings. The culture back then felt so cutthroat due to all of this, and I definitely noticed a divide in the community, viewing the other side as toxic by default. I definitely agree some sense of progression is good for the game, so I liked that aspect of the old system. You rank up, have a dopamine response because you achieved something, and you may want to continue progressing, that's great for keeping players invested, but I think we can take that and still ask for better. Both systems largely failed to me, yet we've learned a lot about what players enjoy, and don't enjoy, that can be used to carefully make a better system and environment. Unfortunately, so many of these things start with BHVR deciding what they want their game to be, as it seems like this indecisive stance of making the game casual and competitive at the same time, is a paradox as you said. I relate to that feeling of this topic has gone on for so long, with so many videos about it, to the point where I'm looking forward to the new game modes as an escape, and I really do believe that's what a lot of players need if they're seeking a more casual environment. If BHVR sees this as a split between competitive and casual for game modes, then I hope they commit so everyone can be satisfied.
Competetive pokemon battling (pokemon showdown) has a system that breaks the pokemon into different groups based on their use. Dbd could benefit from a system since bhvr already knows what items, perks, and addons are the most used for killer and survivor. OU or overused would allow only the top 25% of perks and add ons UU or under used would prohibit all the top 25% of perks and add ons It would be hard to code i think but two queues for these could help with not always seeing at least 2 adrenalines pop every game.
What if the devs would get back those rank badges (I doubt it would happen since right now it would require UI change and those things take years to do according to reddit) and keep mmr? Maybe for example limit people to get matched only within their division and maybe neighboring ones, but take their mmr into account while matching? And maybe remove deranking and depiping. That way pub stompers wouldn't be able to bully weaker players (which I think was the case of rank system and what forced mmr to happen) and games would feel more fair, while limiting how competetive you want your games (which would be like you said, according to the rank). If 20 ranks/5 divisions would be too little, they could always put iri higher and create more filler divisions in between, like mud between ash and bronze or platinum between gold and iridescent.
They've added an option to lock your matches based on your platform, why can't they simply add an option to ignore/opt out of sbmm? Those who want to have difficult games or new players that want to face each other can turn it on, and those who are just wanting a generally more enjoyable/easier experience can turn it off.
I miss the old MM system and rankings, it felt good to play everyday with my buddy, grinding ranked to see how far we could get day one. Now he doesn't even play because "the matches are either a total loss or a huge win now. There's no difference" from what he said. Matches felt good to play for both sides back then, sure you'd run into SWF in the higher ranks but it's like that now. You can tell when you're going up against a "red" rank now after green, because they either get a 4K or everyone escapes. I don't understand how they entice players to come checkout their game through licenses but ruin the experience by cranking up the MMR system they have.
Hey Coconut, ty so much for your commentary on these topics. The community and game is in a really volatile place rn, but your channel and input feels like a ray of sanity in the chaos rn. Somebody had to point it out. The level of sweatiness we see is just unbearable right now. It makes the game unfun, and stressful for everyone to a greater and lesser degree. These days it’s usually greater. I left when they implemented SBMM originally then came back. It has lulls, and waves but the problem just keeps getting worse. Honestly I believe SBMM without a ranked and casual mode, WILL be the cancer that kills this game. I’m just calling it now. The amount of hyper competitive, elitists in the community you find everywhere looking to chime in with “skill issue”, or “git gud” at any given discussion about the current meta even when it doesn’t make sense is already proving that. I don’t know what the future of DBD is, but I’m pretty certain of this, fun is not going to be a part of it if BHVR doesn’t make some serious changes.
I just returned to the game after not playing since 2018 and then as soon as I start winning on hillbilly like 12 games straight then boom! a survivor travel at the speed of light for the next three games
Something you forgot about old rankings is you reset down one level every month, not down to twenty. I always believed you never should have been able to go back to grey ranks once you left it so it could be saved for newbies. But I've also been desperate for them to just add a god damn competitive queue to the game so if you wanna sweat you have that option.
I started playing dbd at the start of october of 2023 and most of my games were fun (I mostly played huntress). But since december I faced too many very skilled survivors who clearly knew more than me and had the best perks when i was running only 4 aura perks. Then I started implementing slowdown perks but they didn't help me as well. I stoped enjoying dbd since New Year and I regret buying all those survivors and killers dlc's. I like the game mechanics and artstyle of Dead by Daylight, but wherever there is a rank system or hidden mmr - there's sweat.
I uninstalled 2 1/2 years ago because it was clear this was the way things were going, even then. BHVR pushed out casual players - especially casual killers - and here we are.
a few problems: 1. as mmr increases more and more games become swayed by items offerings etc. people want to play with these things 2. dbd actually has a shallow playerbase often times to do good sbmm - the population of each skill bracket is skewed towards low and high skill players with small in between populations. either the acceptance window is so large games become unbalanced or queue times becomes long as hell 3. because of #2 the queues can't really get split without ruining the queue health the only solution that feels possible to me is to revert to the old system otherwise DBD becomes a different game with competitive rules blocking common patterns in normal matches or to do something about the balance of these items in general, which doesn't really feel possible without reworking the entire thing ex. insta heals myers mori
@@Tobichiiiit’s really not. Otz did a video about this some time ago, where there was a tournament that had no restrictions at all on both sides, and the average kill rate was 2.15 or something like that. It doesn’t get much more fair than an average of 2 survive, 2 die. That being said, it was an older video; maybe late 2021. Game has changed since then so that tournament might not have as much weight now
@@ghostflame9211 that doesnt prove anything. The only thing that proves is that you either have restrictions and have much more variety as you can never know what perk each survivor has because there is only 1 lithe or 1 adrenaline per team and get ~2-3 kills every game, or you bring the strongest shit imaginable and have ~2-3 kills every game. As otz said: "DBD is becoming a game where you bring the strongest shit, and pray that the other side doesnt. Then you win."
@@ghostflame9211 I actually think this entire argument boils even less down to game mechanics and more to conflicting player attitudes. This is honestly something I don't know if I've ever seen rectified in any PvP game that I've ever played, but there's always going to be that dichotomy between the player that is pretty much almost exclusively interested in doing things as optimally as possible in order to win, and that player that wants to play something more laid back and less calculated/"meta" oriented. I don't really even know what you can do to rectify that experience other than put them in separate queues, but I'm also pretty aware that a lot of the former type of player will also pop into the casual queue with the exact same mindset. Idk, it's not an easy problem to tackle. Best case scenario is that you honestly make the game a little more boring and predictable by balancing it. I also see a lot of people really sad about the fact that the game feels less like...exciting without some of the insanely broken shit in it these days. I really don't know where I stand. I've been pretty much having fun with the game since they got rid of the CoB/Eruption meta. Not 100% of the time, there's a lot of annoying shit both sides deal with, but it's better than it used to be for sure. However, I do want the game to retain personality, and I do think some part of that personality is the janky and sometimes broken things incredibly good players can do.
Tbf, Otz was also testing teams against really strong killers like Nurse and Blight. Now try against Trapper, or Sadakeo, or even mid tier killers like Knight or Ghostface, it becomes hell for ya killer, especially when like Knight, certain addons are outright mandatory or just *bad*, so you can't match survivors at all in addon quality.
At this point, I stopped trying to escape/4k. I play to complete archives and rift. Once rift is complete I stop playing til new rift, and there have been several rifts I've missed cuz other games were just more fun.
same, i do the rift and tome challenges. Tho I did lower my standards for a win as killer to 2k. Taking those smaller victories. Hell any rift challenge i can i will farm, like break gens, walls, pallets, simple stuff. But those like "get 20 gold emblems'" is when I have to actually put some effort
Coconut keeps going on about "SBMM being BHVR trying to push the game into a comp direction" when SBMM was literally introduced to stop sweaty Killers going against new players and baby solo teams. People literally were jumping for joy on the forums when SBMM was announced because there was constant complaints about it on every platform. It'd be great if people stopped forgetting history that is inconvenient to whatever they're complaining about atm in the asym community. EDIT: 6:40 he partly addresses it here but that isn't a good counterargument, because people also complained about depippers and how people would depip as both roles (but especially Killer) to get easier matches, remember that?
"My, you just got home and want to play a chill game of your favourite killer, The Trapper? I hope you remember your last game yesterday was a 4k, because here comes Team Eternal!"
😂 I died at the last part
if you just want to play a chill game it doesnt really matter what team you get, this is only a big deal if u care about winning
for me it was team golden wind😢
i've encountered members of eternal in the past, they're pretty chill actually. they don't normally try to just destroy you.
I was playing billy pre-buff though.
Why are you so afraid of losing?
“I started a Twitter controversy”
“I breathe air”
Fork found in kitchen
“H2O is water”
"The floor here is made out of floor"
every 60 seconds a minute passes
“Incest is fine as long as I use a condom.”
The tragedy of Lights Out is that my survivor experience could be summed up with "most killers camp and tunnel even harder".
Well said. I was furious, I am a sweat on DBD.. if I get hard games on killer, I expect it cause I also play to improve each match.
We finally get a game mode that goes more down the horror/fun experience as something fresh and new, and you get clowns and chucky’s tunneling and trading of hooks against literal blind survivors. Actually pathetic, makes me see red. 😂😂
@@sillysokka1130 I've seen killer players claim it's "too hard" to spread hooks or something, but I had a lot of fun playing killer for the spooks. Only one team (of identical Dwights so 4-man SWF likely) really pushed me to play more seriously, but even then I avoided tunneling intentionally.
I returned to dbd with my friends just to see people sweat in the "for fun" gamemode. What's the point of new gamemodes if they cant make them fun.
Some people only care about wins, and derive their fun from that. In on itself, that's not bad, but when expectations don't meet problems occur.
What BeHaviour could do in the future for game modes (assuming they want to avoid the rampant tunneling and camping that happened in Lights Out), they could implement stronger anti-tunnel and anti-camp measures.
I didn’t see any of that in my games, maybe some unintentional tunneling? Only a few intentional ones, But I didn’t really see camping
Playing this game more casually is painful because I won't touch killer for months but I feel like my mmr is still the same.
Definitely. I haven't played Bubba in months compared to some killers but when I started playing him, the players I've been getting for him have been sweat squads. I don't get it.
it is they got rid of mmr degrading your locked in to whatever bracket for mmr even if you lose alot it wont go below the lowest for that bracket
@@StRonberryme with sadako
and reaching the cap is super ez cause if most people run noed yopu will reach high mmr with no chance of derank vs suads stomping you gg. thtas why we preach if you learn a killer, no perks no add ons, winnings is not your prio there.
@@opticsf34r90
Killer has both individual mmr and overall mmr, if any of your killers is much higher than the average, it’ll drag all of them up towards the cap, doesn’t matter if you don’t play 1 individual killer, he’ll be near the mmr you get on your best one
DBD has always been taken too seriously to the point where some people base their entire self worth on their game performance and will go to insane lengths to win including cheating, it's strange that people even pretend it's a casual 'for fun' game. Also twitter is just a bunch of lost people hoping to find controversy out of nothing to try to feel like they're part of something important (delusion), farming controversy is a given there
lethal company guy cooked
played since 2016 and since mmr got in the game feels uhhh and CJ first mission hits me hard
@@onlysevhn I'm so glad I have a silly casual game to fall back to with friends, where we can take it easy and not be serious
Any multiplayer game is going to have people that take it seriously, that's just common sense. If you want a casual mode on this game then start demanding an actual ranked mode.
@@kltil5082 Ranked modes form what I saw in other games aren't that. They mostly split into players who take the game seriously to get a badge and people who take the game seriously because their life depends on it (like literally, I feel like ranked modes can be chiller than casual ones, despite ranked games sucking because people are competetive - and they're usually aware that toxicity works against them, while casual ones don't).
With the recent confirmed MMR changes, I feel like I have to bring the best perks/items to barely even keep up. It's tough.
true
And yet if certain perks or items are used too often, they nerf. It legit is a paradox.
for me games feel actually more balanced. On average i get 2,5 kills which is what devs want killers to be if they say 60% killrate. And on survivor nothing has changed for me.
or camping and tunneling as a killer or play best killers like xeno wesker nurse or blight
for the first time in history, ever since i started playing in like 2017, ive started to just bring insta heals and commodious, bnp toolboxes every game or the team just loses to all 5 gens getting surged, popped, pain res'd and call of brined lol, i cannot escape the sweat, i must join it. atp i'd just rather have old ruin back
i feel like they are already taking certain steps towards a ranked mode version, seeing as how they divided up the new game menus. Or at least I hope that that is the reason for the re-organized UI layouts.
a ranked mode (or a casual mode ig since the ONLY mode we have rn is ranked) is honestly a great step in the right direction that I've asked for repeatedly for years.
I was melting when Chucky came Out. One of my favourite movie series. Guess What. I couldnt bring myself to play a single match with him. My last 100-200 Games were all sweatfests that were more infuriating, than fun and after a Break, I dont wanna get back just to rage. The longer the Break, the less drive I have to even play.
killer when survivors try to survive:
MMR is based on killer, so you wouldn't play the sweats if you played as chucky
@@MrHellzone That's not entirely true. You're half right. Every killer does have their own MMR but you also have an overall total. This means when you pick a new killer you won't necessarily be getting newbie survivors. If your overall MMR on killer side is super high, you'll likely get either average or decent survivors for a couple of games or so before you start getting sweaty ones.
@@MrHellzone every killer, even the ones you don't play, trail slightly behind your highest mmr killer. So if you're nurse is 200 mmr above soft cap, every one of your killers are above the soft cap and in the highest bracket of difficulty
Played the game since release, and I’ve recently stopped, catching up on single player games I’ve missed, it’s been nice not playing it anymore honestly it’s not what it used to be.
Literally why I stopped playing. I don't mind getting skill diffed, but when you go on a 10+ losing streak (or close to it) you just go, "What's the point anymore?" I 9/10 times will have to fight just for one kill. Can't play who I like to play otherwise I get nothing, as well as everyone just tbags mid game and at the exit gate which just farthers the point of, "Why do I even play this anymore?"
if you're losing 10 games in a row as killer thats a massive skill issue
@zakanater1 I overexaggerated to get my point across. It's more like 5 or 6. But I do know my friends who I try and turn onto this game will lose more than 10 and get frustrated, and I dont blame them anymore. I barely have 1 killer prestige 11 (ghostface of all people) , but all I can seem to go up against are a team of 80+. Even if I dodge now I'll still get them same outcome. Sometimes worse, bro I swear I was on a losing streak and I got matched up against a swf p100's!!! I said screw it bc that's what I'd be getting all night, barely got 2 hooks! I'm not a pro, but im far from new. If the MMR system is supposed to work the way it's intended, I should be going up against average even above average players (to make me lose).
@@zombieslayer7776 Of course you overexaggerated, which is why all of these youtube comments coconut uses as "evidence" is stupid as hell. None of you are being honest, You're making shit up about friends that has never happened, and i guarentee you still have a >50% winrate on killer, most likely much much higher.
I had a p100 player named "tiktok nea" join my lobby last night, be afk for 60 seconds, fail a flashlight save and instantly give up. The day before i had three members of one of the top 10 comp teams in dbd, on a killer i never play. Complaining about MMR is copium.
Legit just play straight games for like 3 or 4 hours and record your winrate. I bet you're nowhere close to what you're imagining.
Sometimes you are going to lose. That is how multiplayer versus games work. You don't get to win every time.
MMR is shit, but I found most success with Ghostface stalking these good players through gaps in objects, above buildings and not giving them free hits, instead, lean stalk them once you get to an open area.
Also, bait them into coming to take a hit, make it seem you are tunneling someone, and down them. Better yet, camp someone on the hook and force a hook trade, just for them to give you yet another down. If you do it correctly, nobody can come save ever and they do not even know they're 99ed.
you play solo for 3 hours one day the next you que up with friends for 1 game and the killer is just comp, i get it "skill issue" haha so funny but it is still the point that this happens 1 win : 10 lose. havent played dbd for 2 weeks once and i get on with a friend and it becomes a swet fest or us getting off after just 2 games. @@zombieslayer7776
I'm having a hard time understanding that DBD is meant to be a casual game. The grindy nature of the progression, the blatant toxicity and high skill ceilling doesn't really fits the casual experience. I'm very casual and gave up on DBD a while ago, but the game is really enteraining to watch so I keep up with some content.
But if the game had low skill ceilling and no progression, the game would die out the next day, or at least temporarily, until the next update.
The most common argument is that “the devs said it’s a party game, therefore it’s a party game.” I stopped watching spooknjukes for that reason: I got into an argument with one of his community members who kept defending the game as casual and shitting in people who take it competitively only because the devs said so. When I pointed out that the devs they were praising so much also once compared this game to hockey, I was promptly timed out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A game can be casual and also require lots of knowledge to master. You wouldn’t call something like those trivia jack-box party games competitive, non-casual games just because to be “good” you need a lot of trivia knowledge.
In ye old days of ranks being your rating (even though they didn’t actually mark anything except perhaps playtime), the game felt more random and therefore more fun. Nowadays, you gotta lose on purpose to maintain fun, or else you get really good players that aren’t fun to play against, especially if you’re not running meta killers/perks.
@@ghostflame9211 He's by far the most "casual" of them all lowkey. Other than that one bozo who plays only custom matches with his friends and that gets called content
@@ghostflame9211I've never been a fan of echo chambers, drama farming + "it's just a videogame so I can play how I want" tbh. Yes, one can play how they wish but you can't expect your opponent to be happy if you use cheesy, cheap or unsportsmanlike tactics to win e.g. basement Bubba is so boring to go against, you just sit on hook for 2 minutes. Wow so much "fun". 🙄Everyone has a right to their opinion, but that's a bitch move to time you out if you were being civil and no mods/streamer told you to stop. At least Coconut provides different opinions and thoughtful discussions, Otzdarva gives us tons of juicy intel and through Hens333 I get to see how a competitive player would play DBD.
New Strat, Hook everyone twice, then throw the game. 4 escapes, they get harder matches in the future, I get easier matches in the future
I do same thing with survivor tbh, do gens to help the team, play hyper altruistically so I can say I died helping the team, offer the killer a kill if it gets to endgame. Hell it's why I get less salty now with tunnelling killers, wanna tunnel? Fine, have fun facing Team Eternal next game fucker :) Same with sweaty builds, Artist with Devour build on The Game who tried to offer me hatch? No you played like a sweaty bitch, take the 4k you want so badly and enjoy tougher opponents.
Want to know something funny? I like to do that until I hit gold ranks as Killer. At that point it gets very difficult to advance without killing the survivors.
The problem comes when people claim they play for fun or "casually" but then they LITERALLY PUT ALL THE EMPHASIS ON WINNING
Exactly this. If they truly cared about playing casually then none of this sht would be a problem. They don't, they're just entitled people using this narrative as their excuse. Just read a comment from an entitled killer main mad about getting games where 2 people escape. In other words, literally mad about a balanced match. And on top of it whining that "he just wants to play casually and he's sick of having to try". Like there's no helping some people, they've buffed killers into oblivion and the problem still exists. Why? Because entitled people are never happy.
@@kltil5082 My only gripe when I play casually is depipping. For example on killer, I have 4 pips and I need one more to get a grade above. But Im not in the mood to sweat, I wanna goof off with the survivors. And I do that the next match. I farm with them if my tome challenge allows me (like break pallets tome challenge for example) and I just do stupid shit, like playing the piano on Dead Dawg or pretending it. Just having fun and letting the survivors have a chill time from the stress. But then I get punished by depipping.
Which I technically get since I let them all go resulting in a 0k, but since killer/survivor grades arent representative of your rank or mmr and no one but you can see your grade, why do we depip? I never understood that part.
@@kltil5082 I readd the comment you're talking about, he doesnt seem mad about only getting 2k's, he said the matches feel balanced and he's fine with them. he's just exhausted afterword's due to the massive amount of mental effort put into playing at his best at all times. He outright calls it fun and all you do is call him intitled. I think you're just looking for reasons to be mad at people. Please shut up.
Hey vessDBD! i think you failed to consider people have significantly more fun winning than losing! hope this helps.
@Ghosta085 funnily enough I worded my comment in a way that this argument can't be used.
I took that into account before typing my comment and I agree with you that winning is more fun than losing.
What one has to realize is, if you fall under the ideology that winning=fun then you have to admit that the idea of "competitiveness" (aka: the desire to win) is the main concept that they focus on, and therefore the game should head towards a more competitive direction and not a casual one, therefore making players who claim "casualness" (aka: unconcerned with results) just simply hypocritical at a base level.
Sorry if this doesn't make much sense I'm on 2 hrs of sleep haha.
Maybe the best choice would be to revert the SBMM system and instead have Competitive in a separate gamemode, where you need to load up a SWF and there are restrictions in place for items, maps, perks etc. They could even have different weights/restrictions depending on the killer if necessary, to better match Comp DbD rules. It'd give more competitive players the outlet they'd want, while letting regular DbD be more casual. Sure, some sweats might go into pubs for stomps, but that has always been possible, and this would let such behavior be called out for what it is.
At this point, it'd be a good way to add an extra gamemode and introduce people to competitive DbD, while preserving/saving casual DbD.
And it's a self-fulfilling cycle. The Killers get harder teams as they win, so they have to do the best loadouts they can. Meaning they're occadionally paired with survivors that aren't doing that. Either because they were part of a team when they got all those wins and are solo queuing. Or they just got lucky or were on their A game. But then they get back to back matches with super optimized killer builds, which then makes it so they have to do the same just to be relevant.
Yes then survivors scream like children and get the killer perks nerfed while theirs goes untouched and killers have to resort to things like tunneling as all other means of playing the game have become more and more difficult.
@@NameIsDoc You speak as if Killers don't complain about things too. Like MFT, Flashlights, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, or literally any second chance perk or perks that make them slightly more annoying to chase.
@@SuperSpells mtf was completely broken had a 60% equip rate due to being broken and lasted a half a year before it was nerfed, flashlights were buffed (just because you can't click spam doesn't mean it's worse), dead hard had a 70% equip rate and was busted it needed a nerf but it took literal years to get it even looked at meanwhile killers got major nerfs to their perks within 2 weeks of any changes or premieres. And one second chance perk is fine but at one point survivors would equip 3-4 second chance perks at a time meaning that in a chase a killer would have to hit a survivor 3-5 times not including if the survivor brought a septic.
Yeah poor killers only able to win 75% of their games instead of 90%
@@zakanater1 yeah because entitled survior mains rage quit or First hook when they encounter anything that moderately annoys them
As survivor, it just feels terrible sometimes. Getting camped and tunnelled is not fun. I just play for fun, I don’t mind losing but I’d like to at least get a chance to play.
Had a match against a knight last night that hard tunnelled a nea and then camped her in endgame. We could have gotten a 3 man out easily but probably would have de-pipped. We ended up giving the knight a 3K because none of us wanted to leave after having practically zero interaction with the killer.
What I hate about this is if I escape then I win, but if I de-pip then that’s a loss so I feel almost forced to do risky crap in end game just to make sure I don’t de-pip.
@@hewmanbeing the best part of that is that the knight probably had just as awful a time as you all did. Balancing this game around exclusively kills is absolutely braindead and leads to as little interaction with the other side as possible from both sides. it's been this way forever and it's crazy to me that bhvr went with it despite KNOWING it wasn't going to work or be fun. but i guess it really shouldn't surprise me when dbd is their only really successful game
@@rpg1497 completely agree, I’ve been the killer in situations like that and it sucks. It’s on him for hard tunnelling though, like he literally chased her for all 5 gens outright ignoring anyone else on gens in front of him and only hitting someone else if they’re body blocking. Like he completely brought it on himself. We were on wretched shop too so it wasn’t a difficult map either.
@@hewmanbeing the game feels counterintuitive honestly
it's mostly tunneling , camping is fine
As someone with ~6.5k hours that's been around since late 2018, this feels like deja vu.
Did everyone just collectively forget that SBMM was originally introduced *because* people were.. complaining about how hard their matches were due to the variety in everyone's rank/skill levels or am I crazy? Now people are complaining about SBMM like they were our old ranking system.. fundamentally, nothing they do is going to stop this. You can't force people to be good or play efficiently, just like you can't force people to stop optimizing the shit out of the game and 'be fun'.
Even if they were to add a separate competitive or casual mode - nothing is stopping people from going to casual modes to stomp out casual players. I mean look at the new game modifier they added, it's full of people being as efficient as possible. Survivors are running things that make them harder to see and killers are choosing to play certain killers that give advantages in the dark environment and game mode limitations (removal of the stain) like GF and pig. This isn't a Dbd issue. Hell, it's not even a video game issue. It's a human nature issue.
If you want to play a game like this you just kind of have to accept that if you want to play to have fun, you might not do well. The only thing the devs can really do is try to make things as fair as possible - like how they assuaged the issue of gen tapping with the new regression change or the anti camp (even though it's.. not really doing much, but they tried). Its difficult to create a system to protect people from unfun/unfair things without that very system getting abused by the people it's meant to protect. That's why things like DS had to receive so many reworks to be viable but unabusable.
In short I think people are too focused on the wrong things. SBMM was the system that everyone was begging for so that they could find matches with similarly skilled people and now that they've gotten what they wanted they regret it and want yet another knew system that will inevitably have the same issues.. those of us against the change to begin with knew that this was coming. Be careful what you wish for.
Exactly, few people seem to get this
I will say, as a more casual player the losses stung a lot less when I saw the endgame screen and that the Survivors were all a subtantially higher rank than me, or that the Killer was a much higher rank than me.
If you don't want to play sweaty players, dont use sweaty perks. Its fine if you lose a game here or there, thats how online games work. Some people in the comments are digging their own hole and blaming the devs
Sorry but I don't get it. If you don't wanna sweat, then just don't sweat? Yeah you'll lose and your MMR will drop and then you'll get less sweaty matches. What people REALLY want is to not have to sweat and to ALSO win. It's entitlement. If you just don't want sweaty matches, then STOP sweating lmao. You sweat your ass off to win a sweaty match and guess what, your next match will be just as hard or harder. Play how you WANT and you'll get the matches you deserve. You don't get to just play however you want AND ALSO win every time.
I intentionally let two survivors leave after every game. Even if I could've easily gotten a 4k, I slug the second last, down the last and then allow them to wiggle out and leave. I enjoy DBD, because of the wacky stuff I can do while messing around with my "victims". The only issue is that allowing 2 survivors to leave is much more difficult and time consuming than allowing just one to leave. And well, allowing one to leave will still increase your hidden MMR, from my personal experience, so this is my makeshift solution that I've been using.
I'm not good enough at DBD to sweat and I don't really wanna sweat either, so this is the next best thing. I'd also just like a casual queue where MMR and everything is just tossed out the window and I can face somebody on their third game of DBD or face team eternal, it's all up to random chance.
The match quality is gonna suffer a lot if you just throw everyone together
This game can't really be casual anymore, because there too many experienced players already, but they make many mistakes to punish which you must play "dirty"
The community needs a mode VS Bot with a difficulty level. So if you make 4k in easy mode, you make let's say 15k BP. In hard mode, you would make 25k for 4k and the Hard would be 35k BP. This way, no Tbag, no toxcicity, just relax practice time (with reward as BP). I'm sure the player base would grow! And it could help develop NEW PLAYER BASE.
Honestly good idea for people who just want to chill or get better, it would be a wonderful experience for new players, it encourages them to play more
Okay, im gonna say it.
I think its time for a competitive mode with certain restrictions and matchmaking, then disable SBMM in casual games, or make it way looser
Haven't played in months since my laptop died, but my solo que experience (+1,200 hours) was mostly brain dead survivors playing against killers who played like it was always comp.
I miss when the game wasn't taken so seriously, but tbh, I'm also kinda enjoying my time away from DBD.
In your own example you just cited 3 people who weren't taking it seriously. So clearly that isn't what you actually want. You just want the person you're facing to be easier.
@@kltil5082 I didn't cite 3 people... I said mostly brain dead survivors, that could be anywhere between 1-4 people at any percent that could qualify as most times.
I don't necessarily mind playing against killers who are trying hard to win, they tend to be some of the best matches; but if you get matched up against players who are completely outmatched, maybe pump the brakes. Just my opinion.
The biggest issue of SBMM is that it FORCES people to tunnel and camp, because they are the best strategies out there and you will face teams who are unbeatable otherwise
Either lose unwinnable games all the time, or resort to tunnelling and only playing meta killers. It sucks
whenever i feel like my opponent(s) start sweating their ass off i just let myself die / do nothing all game 10 games in a row to get more chill games
In reality you lose 10, win 1 then it’s back to hell
aint that the truth @@PipesIncident
Yeah agreed, I played killer tonight, cuz I had the bp modifier. I got sent to Eyrie twice in a row and then to Borgo twice in a row. Idk what the odds are but its ridiculous. And on a borgo match, I see the Steve is a juicer, he's a good looper and I wanna abandon chase to go after Meg, Nick or Nea. But then Sweatlord Steve is just chasing after me and not doing gens. I tried to play nice, but seeing as that wasnt going anywhere with Steve, I tunneled out Nick and Meg. It was either a 2K with help of Blood Warden or 0K.
How can you not tunnel
And then theres the stress. When you feel that you will do poorly on a map so you tunnel out the weak link so you can have an easier time after.
I dont think I ever tunnel for fun, but more when Im stressed and believe that I will lose.
When i start getting nurses and blights back to back i just run dramaturgy by itself. Not gonna throw the game on purpose but thats what i do to lower my mmr
I think part of the problem is how the game chooses who gains or losses MMR
A killer hooking 2 survivors and camping them to death is seen as more skilled than a killer that hooks every survivor twice, pressures them off gens, wins chases but only gets one kill in the end game while the other 3 survivors escape
If you die saving a survivor who escapes, the survivor who is saved is seen as more skilled than the survivor that saved them and nearly escaped
Every other MMR system isn't so black and white about MMR, and changes to MMR depend on everybody else's MMR, but in DBD it's just done so lazily
Also knowing the rough mmr of the lobby after the game would be nice, just to see if I performed badly or that I was actualy going against godly survivors
I couldn't agree with you more, Coconut. Part of the reason why I actually taken a break/pretty much quit DbD with how sweaty and competitive it has become. It's just not fun anymore.
there should be dedicated competetive mode including draft, where survivors choose 16 unique perks one after another, and both killer and survivors are limited in terms of addons and items - simple as that
It's not simple but it would actually help vs people just saying "split casual and ranked." They need to make a ranked mode that actually has a difference in gameplay to support competetive play
@@trevorjones7897ok dude, I am a player who wants to win every game, I want easy games, I won't play in comp mode, it's better to bully casual players then to play against comp, that's simple
@@Maznevich Not sure what you're saying here, they are correct and it's surely why BHVR has not created a ranked mode: They know it's pointless and the annoying sweats will stick to casual for easier matches.
People Never talk about how each killer has a different ranking system. IRI Rank killers are going againts bronze rank players when they dont play their main.
Thats true, but depends per killer.
For example I am a Trickster main, I can slay with Trickster.
But as an iri killer I can still play Wraith relatively well even tho I never play him and I can get bronze or ashes. I can rack up decent wins on Wraith
But then you have me playing Billy and Nurse, who even tho I never play them and my mmr should be low af on those killers, even tho I have the hours, I can still get a 1 or 0K on them because I havent mastered those killers mechanically. So I am rightfully as an iri killer put on low mmr there
@FinestFantasyVI The point is, Bronze rank players don't understand how to defend themselves with tiles. There pathing is awful. They sandbag each other and group up to much. Most of the time, you can snowball multiple survivors because they allow you to. You have a basic understanding how tiles work and what's strong. Beginners don't. The old system was more fair and fun.
I think DBD is in this weird spot where it doesn't really know what it wants to be so we end up with this awkward in-between of casual and competitive that reflects on the playerbase as well.
You never know what kind of players you're going to go against until you actually play against them.
You might want to play chill but your opponents want to play seriously which forces you to make a decision of: "Do I want to try-hard this match or do I want to play chill and /maybe/ get a 1k?". Some people after one sweaty match have the reaction of putting on sweatier perks as killer which in turn creates the problem above but for the opposite party. It's a constant cycle.
Though the argument could be made that this is how every other multiplayer game works. Sometimes you go against chill opponents, sometimes you go against absolute sweats. So why is it so much more hard-hitting in DBD?
My theory is that people want to believe DBD is something that it isn't. DBD is not casual but it isn't competitive either.
You /do/ need good perks in order to keep up.
You /do/ have to resort to scummy tactics sometimes if you want to 4k.
You /can/ mess around with survivors and have little funny moments.
You /can/ play with weaker / meme builds and acknowledge you probably won't win.
I think it would be healthy for some people to start accepting this instead of trying to stubbornly say that DBD is something that it isn't.
Players are experienced and know what works and what doesn't. At the same time, DBD is far too unbalanced for it to be called a competitive game and it /needs/ that unbalance of power in order to be fun and not repetitive.
It all comes down to the players.
Apex suffers of a similar issue, it's a hard game to play casually because even when playing chill you still need to put in effort and be on your P's and Q's
And if you're the type of player that just can't put in a bit of effort in a game due to various reasons then that's not necessarily the game's fault. Maybe DBD just isn't suited for you or maybe you just need to come to terms with the fact that DBD isn't a casual game and that you will face sweaty killers / teams. Take every match as is.
The main problem comes from the devs themselves saying: "It's a silly party game" when clearly that's not what they're pushing.
They're pushing a pseudo-competitive game (like Coconut said) with the potential for silly, goofy interractions on both sides.
My mentality towards DBD and enjoyment of it has been so much better since adopting this way of thinking about it tbh.
TL;DR: DBD isn't casual and it isn't competitive. Players are too experienced for it to be casual and the game is too unbalanced for it to be competitive.
You need perks to keep up. You need to put in effort to actually win and if you can't do that then DBD isn't for you.
Bro, PREACH! Also, I disagree that old ranking system didnt involve skill, it took some work to get to rank 1. I just really wish it was back. I miss sitting at green and purple and being happy with that experience, I feel like trying to escape on survivor now is hopeless, and most of the time killer is too easy or too hard.
I normally don't comment on your videos, but I gotta say, this was an EXCELLENT analysis on why MMR just doesn't feel right in DbD.
I remember a long time ago, getting rank 1 on killer for the very first time. There was a sense of pride in accomplishing that, and it culminated in the visual rank 1 emblem I saw in post game lobbies. But I also remember, just a week or two after this happened, a lot of different DbD content creators I followed started releasing videos about the ranked system.
"Why rank doesn't matter"
"Why current ranked system sucks"
"DbD needs more incentive to rank up"
This all felt like a slap to my face as someone that had tried really hard to improve in this game to reach the highest possible rank. And ranks becoming invisible was met by an incredible amount of praise from those same content creators and much of the community. Something had to replace it, and thus MMR was born, and we all know how that's going for the game now.
Imo, there was nothing wrong with the old ranked system, and there was nothing wrong about going for the highest rank and being proud of it. Can MMR and bring back 20 - 1.
My thoughts summarized here
If he just said MMR doesn't feel right no one would care. Instead he had to say something stupid to get people's attention for such a basic take.
And to counteract the experience of someone who got rank 1 emblem for the very first time in 2022. It was stressful as fuck as a killer. And because Im more of a killer than a survivor, people actually wanted to help me reach iri 1 "to become a survivor main", so i literally had a 3 man swf helping my sorry ass because it was that stressful and tunnely.
I breathed relief when I did reach iri 1 for my achievement, but I dont see why do we pip down, if our grades dont represent our rank or mmr. No one other than us sees the grade, so why does one have to worry about losing pips?
Yeah back than it was better, sure it had its flaws but it was still better than mmr. Especially since you can’t get your mmr up unless you actually win. Back than you had to achieve a certain amount of points and you would get better team mates and killers. Basically it was evened out. Like I said it had its problems but ever since mmr is a thing the game hasn’t been playable at all. Not on killer and def not on survivor. As a survivor solo que main you bascially are stuck with bad team mates and no matter how good you play if you ain’t a god lvl player with 10k hours you won’t win cause your team does absolutely nothing. Back than I actually had competent team mates and now someone who shakes their heads up and down in super speed is the only competent team mate you can occasionally find and by that I mean a team mate that does nothing all game
@@kltil5082 The point of the message is basic sure, but I just thought I should share an annecdotal example to really encapsulate the issue. It's one thing to say "MMR doesn't feel right" and not back it up with anything, it's another to give an actual example of WHY the system feels bad in the first place, outside of the same rehashed "my games are way harder than before" point that I see a lot of people bringing up.
Having played the game since december 2018, my take is that BHVR aren't using the MMR like they should be. A good example of this is when they were proposing the healing changes. They were proposing it because the data they were receiving was telling them healing was way too strong at the time. But due to people not using the PTB as they should've to test the new healing speed/time, they instead decided to stack anti-heal perks to make it miserable to heal. The likelihood of a killer running all anti-heal is very low. If we want MMR to change we need to make changes as a community to show BHVR what we want and what the game needs.
TLDR: BHVR needs to use their systems and data correctly. We also need to communicate with them better and stop this scream fest we're constantly in
I think rank based matchmaking would be sooo much more fun. I as a solo-que surv am losing around 75% of my games often times because killers play the most optimal way, which involves a lot of tunneling and proxy camping etc. I honestly dont really care about escaping or not but it feels really bad to loose because someone needed to sweat their balls off and run a disgusting build and add ons.
Exactly, yet the survivors you get play like morons. A ranked mode would in theory help with that problem
Exactly, yet the survivors you get play like crap. A ranked mode would in theory help with that problem
I was playing Lights Out with my brand new friends, and they were having way more fun in that mode than they were in the "real" mode.
That's mostly because they didn't have to think about perks at all. All of the perks are fine to learn, but doing pub match after pub match makes it feel overwhelming to them. Lights Out actually let them focus on learning killer powers at their base level, and they had a blast doing it lol.
I noted that, maybe a mode that doesn't allow perks or limits perk availability somehow would be excellent for newer players to cut their teeth in. Because sometimes in pubs, people that are new and don't have certain DLC encounter the most broken shit imaginable. Especially if those people are trying out killer.
A perkless "Pure" mode would be so good. No meta, just play.
or perhaps a Wildcard mode. Survivors and Killers don't Choose their perks. They must Work with whatever the Entity gives them that round. Which i think would be more like how the entity would do it.
@@BlueBD random perk and addon mode for all players would be rad
This was my experience. I played both sides. I had a blast because I could go as hard or easy as I wanted as Killer and NOT CARE about perks. As Survivor I found myself playing naturally more on guard, not like an action game - and it was fun. If Lights Out was permanent I would legit play no other mode.
The game needs Ranked and Casual queues. Badly. The game needs to split the sweats from non-sweats. MMR doesn't fucking work.
A pub Blight 2k'd a comp team in a tournament while under their strict restrictions, and that's supposed to be the counter argument.
So, without restrictions, he probably would have 4k'd. Comp players are so up their own ass that they don't even realize that they're not even that good.
beware, hes gonna ask you 1v1 him soon xD
without restrictions, comp dbd would be only top tier killers to have a chance to get kills/hooks. You will not see e.g. any demogorgon get more than 3 hooks at that level of coordination. I would argue that even on the most broken map offering, he would get 0 hooks 10 games in a row against some of the best. Due to practice, skill and coordination, restrictions are on both ends.
@@d3cks96 There was a tournament a while ago with no restrictions and killers like artist still did well and even occasionally got 4ks
@@blacksuitedsonic fully agree, while artist I still personally claim to be in top killers, the point I want to make is that for certain killers there is all exhaustion perk restriction for a reason. My extreme case would be that having no restrictions above a certain skill threshold and mean intentions, these players would destroy almost anything that doesn't represent best and even the best in some cases e.g. ghost face on badham/dredge on gas station.
Edit: would like to see that tournament to grasp more info as I am passionate about dbd. Any referral?
Well one, momo isn’t a pub blight he’s a very good comp player. Two, the point was that he wins 99.9% of games in pubs while looking at twitch chat n talking with his stream, but in comp trying his absolute hardest, he’ll get outed occasionally. I think that’s a good argument for comp being harder no?
I love how most of the arguments for competitve being harder qas "bro some of the best players get stomped by other really good players" when these same killers would get curbed in pubs by some average survivors just running full meta. At least in competitive both sides have to be skilled per the restrictions. In pubs, you can be average, and as long as you're running full meta, you can contribute like a pro player.
"these same killers would get curbed in pubs by some average survivors just running full meta" -> Bro, Momo literally has a 1700 GAMES WIN STREAK in pubs. So no, you're wrong.
this v1 guys got a 30 streak or more 4k4 with blight and about 25 games of 4k3 streak as wraith, dont talk about what u dont understand lil bro
@ylost2331 OK Lil bro has does that disprove the point though? Same people who do well in pubs do well in comp too and they have an easier time in conp because they don't have to worry about certain perks or strategies. Step down Lil bro and go take a nap
@@GodsDissapointment XDDDDDD no trash pub stomper do well in comp lil bro, put coconut against any comp team and he is getting molested🙏😭
I just came back to Dbd from a long hiatus and if I’m being honest it feels easier then when I left for killer and easier then when I left for survivor I feel pubs got a bit better of course it’s harder to rank up for survivor because randoms but it’s still very possible and easier then before for me and still feels fair for me at least
the plot of this entire story is that coconut played hillbilly and it was harder then tournament.
I stopped playing dbd because competetive play in pubs is boring af, killers are comping while teammates are doing beginner shit, its not fun if you cant escape, get tunneled, sandbagged, and f*cked over by your team. Only way we will go back to ranked matchmaking will be if they add chill modifier and no one plays mmr anymore, or bhvr gets a brain.
MMR is how I went from a top 10 trickster to slowly becoming an 8 hook and farm Andy. This game is stressful. I don't have enough gametime anymore to sit and sweat. I don't want to. I don't want, or expect, easy wins, but realizing that my 3000 hours aren't that many compared to most, I still end up in lobbies with survivors with 6k+ if I'm lucky, people who know things I haven't even thought about.
I don't know if comp is harder or easier. I don't care to. I know I did comp counterstrike back in the day and the rules existed much like they do in DBD: nerf the top end, balance the rest. 4 Adrens will never be fair. Nor will 4 dead hards, 4 unbreakables. But that's the expectation in every single lobby.
adrenaline is just a win harder perk. doesn't do anything with the gens still going. it's boring but its not that bad imo. ig run noed if you keep seeing it
@@Random_Commentor_On_That_Video adrenaline is run by tons of good players for a reason, as is ds, otr, bt, dh all that stuff. adrenaline lets you stay injured and not care. it counters slugging as well, and makes the save on the one hooked at the end even easier when they have it. it's an absolutely insane perk when ppl are smart with it, theyll even time it so that you hit them just before the last gen pops and then they sprint away while youre on cd. noed is not really an answer to adrenaline so much as it is a decent way to try and make the save at the end extremely difficult, because as long as they don't find it immediately the chances that you get at least that one or even 2 at the end is high
@@rpg1497 idk bro. if adrenaline pops i usually already am eating an L anyway. they have to have a dead perk all game until the gens are done and then see if it gets value. (*the following is midgame*) it doesnt counter slugging, help with hook situations, gen rush, heal faster mid game or help against snowballs.
for every perk in the game someone hates it, and more people will hate perks that are used a lot because they actually get something done. no one wants to run boring perks that do nothing. it's just so inoffensive to me
@@Random_Commentor_On_That_Video I don't even know what to say to that response. Feel however you will about it I guess
@@rpg1497 surely you run some perks that get shit *DONE* too
Im a solo queue player and i rarely play in SWFs. I wouldn't mind the MMR nonsense if it meant raising my MMR gave me better teammates to go against the better killers it throws at me. But instead of gives me the same or worse teammates that cant run long enough to get any gen progress against the best comp killers with the best comp perks and its just not fun to play.
Finally someone points out the problem. Delete SBMM! I’m a 7 year veteran and I have noticed how awful games have been since artist released with SBMM. It’s got to the point where I feel like Noob3 I don’t enjoy the game anymore there’s always the expectation to sweat your balls every single game.
They need better SBMM, not none. With SBMM people should not be going against killers who know how to play well, while commonly getting survivors that do absolutely nothing and get less than 10k points, dont do gens etc. If you "feel like a noob" after they brought out SBMM, that just says everything about your gameplay. Get good, and stop basing the amount of fun you have on getting easy matches. How incredibly boring. SBMM needs to become more fine tuned, not abandoned.
I don’t understand how a company that is trying to improve to keep its player base happy and improve QOL is dying on the hill of SBMM. Every players it’s mother who said they want it gone. But no, instead we get lights out.
Its effort to remove or replace SBMM which they put a "Lot" of effort into making it count just kills and escapes. Even though they still have the pip system and it can be applied easily to the mmr in place of kills.
One of the devs (think he quit at this point) told us that since BHVR have put effort into Overheat, they shouldn't just remove it.
I think you're more than aware of how the community handled Hillbilly's Overheat.
Now apply that mindset into anything that they do that isn't a simple numbers change.
@@NameIsDoc Pip system literally had people who did not deserve to be at rank 1, something Coconut casually glosses over for some weird point, and depippers completely ruins Coconut's entire "you can CHOOSE YOUR PLAYERS" thing... because people depipped to get easier matches when they were either super sweaty and should be stuck at high rank/MMR or deserved to be at that spot to begin with because they were still too good when playing casually.
@@The_B_Button you mean how people derank now? Often to keep below the threshold. Or how people make smurfs and play in a swfs with them to drag their high teir asses down to low teir?
And what makes you say thy were not deserving of being in the upper ranks? You could only get pips by being a team player instead of a selfish prick that the current system encourages now. Does a survivor that died running the killer for a few gens deserve a derank in our current system?
Even if they were boosted there they are not locked into the high ranks and come the thirteenth they are reset back into the rank system like everyone else. Unlike the current system where a survivor can be boosted then stuck past the threshold.
@@NameIsDoc It was still a bigger issue BECAUSE people could see their exact rank, so they knew how to exploit it easily, which was the problem.
"how people make smurfs" People are not spending 20 dollars to make smurfs for 2 days. Like, lmao
"And what makes you say thy were not deserving of being in the upper ranks? You could only get pips by being a team player instead of a selfish prick that the current system encourages now. Does a survivor that died running the killer for a few gens deserve a derank in our current system?"
Oh good shit, another idiotic "ONE OR THE OTHER" argument, this time it's "EMBLEMS OR SBMM". Why are balance whiners like this? They always go for the dumbest and most predictable things.
Anyways, sorry to ruin this for you, but people got to rank 1 just by playing long enough. The current pip system we have now is what we had back then. And, uh, people typically float to red ranks if they play enough. Which was the majority of red ranks... which means it doesn't work. :)
Also, Survivors want MMR because it gets them better teammates, Coconut has Killer players in mind when going on about SBMM. I know because he's using the same wording and structure as people who have said it's about Killer players dealing with "muh 4 man bully SWFs all the time".
And, yes, rank reset every month so the good players were brought back into the bad ones every month, which was not fun for newer or more casual players! Was VERY fun for sweaty Killers though.
You raise an excellent point. We need a casual mode with no MMR, and a ranked mode with MMR and comp restrictions.
Wouldn't work the majority of players who claim to be comp aren't comp there just casuals who are trying there hardest to win the objective of the game is to win the only way for the game to actually change is for players to stop trying to win but if that's the case then players need to stop crying when they get shit on by someone playing within the games bound dbd is the only game where making the smartest play is frowned upon
i wasnt around when old rank system was a thing but from my 2000 hour experience, most of my matches feel balanced and actually fair now since the most recent mmr change... but sweaty af. Both me and survivors sweat their ass of to get our objective done, which results in mostly 2k for me. Its fun but after a couple of matches you are exhausted, while i believe when i could play more chill i could play way more matches in a row.
2 out and 2 dead means you just played a balanced game. You're not happy because you aren't getting matches handed to you on a silver platter is what you should have said. Entitled players are the main thing wrong with the game. So yes, please do stop playing you're doing everyone a favor.
@@kltil5082 2 survived is a tie. that happening every game is exhausting and annoying. variability in matchmaking would fix this where you get games you 3k or 4k and some you 1k or 0k. 2k is the most boring outcome to have happen multiple times. like going 15 and 15 in a cod match.
@@kltil5082 "Most of my matches feel balanced and actually fair now sense the most recent MMR change" and "it's fun" gee, he sounds so upset and intitled for calling the game fair and fun.
He said litteraly nothing negative about the game or his experience beyond feeling exhausted due to the effort he puts in. Which is completely reasonable. Dead by daylight is a mentally strenuous game, especially when both sides put in all their effort. mind games, keeping track of perks, and making optimal plays, are not the easiest things in the world.
@@freziaplanet4198 exactly, thanks for getting my message ;) shows some people can still read.
doubling down on this take is crazy, even after dozens of people that are fully in the comp community explained to you how and why this is nonsense, you could give 3 queens to the average chest player and they would still lose to the top chess players, running strong shit doesn't outweigh actually understanding what you are doing, which even the best pub swf groups don't
Those are great points. Something I heard a lot is that it's impossible to split the player base over the two modes now - all killers would flock toward the game mode where swf and stuff is not around, while survivors would be sitting on the other mode, etc.
But having a ranked mode with rules that forbid certain add-ons and perks, essentially comp rules, might actually work. People would avoid it to run other builds, but people who want fair matches would use it. It could work. It never will, but it could.
Those 246 members of that one server would be insane if they were revealed publicly!
Nah the old rank system had hella people talking down and dismissing anyone who wasn't red rank
What was it like? This is the first I hear of this
@@FinestFantasyVI Basically if you stated an opinion on the Internet and you weren't rank 1 or at least red rank, people would bully you. Like if you ever interacted with a Facebook group or anything like that, people would have this huge superiority complex
@@cameronmurrell-byrd7738 Oh, so basically people would treat me like they do when I say that I like Trickster more than Huntress.
Toxic af people who reject opinions and treat it as if you told them facts.
I still get that a lot
@@FinestFantasyVI Exactly, but it's gotten better, since no there isn't a stat that people can point to anymore to determine your "skill" in the game. People can hate on you for liking trickster more, but they cant call you a baby gamer anymore
@@cameronmurrell-byrd7738 Pretty much. At least survivors dont use the hud icons to judge people what they're doing. Honestly that HUD is a godsend to me
I still to this day don't understand how a game like dbd has a comp scene😂. Have any of these dbd comp players even played comp on actual competitive games before? Why would they choose dbd?
Most comp players started this game when they were teenagers so this was their first "comp" game. The skill you aquire in dbd dont really transfer to other comp games. so they just stuck with dbd because they would get stomped in other games like dota 2. They are used to winning consistently in dbd and they wont have that dopamine hit when playing other comp games.
@@Kerps123what an assertive and ludicrous take. No.
@Kerps123 yeah dbd Knowledge won't really help you in alot of the mainstream comp games for sure but if they are willing to sink 1000s of hours into dbd nothing is stopping them from sinking 1000s of hours into other games and learning
SBMM accomplishes a similar goal to rank-based matchmaking (RBM). Fundamentally, RBM has some positive qualities of being more transparent to the player, and (arguably an upside) having a hard reset every month. Additionally, I'd imagine the "softcap" is lower - my hunch is many more players would hit iri 1/red ranks than hit the current MMR softcap. Effectively, the player pool is larger and more diverse at the highest end. I 1000000% think this is a good thing - part of the fun, for me, in online games, is to have a mixture of easier, regular/tense, and get-stomped matches. It allows me to witness my growth/prowess as a player, enjoy tough matches, and also get humbled and set my sights once again on improving.
SBMM really just needs a much more forgiving softcap to keep a diverse player pool.
edit: also, BHVR isn't really pushing the game in a pseduo-competitive direction, at least not intentionally. it seems they just want all matches to be "fair" or at least prevent groups of survivors (majority of playerbase, i assume, and probably a lot of the casuals) from getting rolled by insane killers - thus, the tightening and tuning of SBMM. It just has the side effect of slowly pushing those at the highest level to constantly playing really intense, comp-feeling games because the skill pool isn't diverse enough for a casual experience.
it's also "unfortunate" in a way the only thing that dictates MMR is your kills/escapes. This is especially punishing for survivors, I think. You can play well, get many pips, but still die and lose MMR. Funnily, for killers, you could play a disgusting and immaculate game, get everyone on deathhook, and just let them do gens and leave through the gates and derank. In the previous RBM system, you'd have to thoroughly throw in order to depip.
There is another benefit of rank based matchmaking too. You can spread out ranks where you can no longer lose rating as moment of respite in the climb where you can take a break and mess around before starting up the climb again.
When I was playing Master Duel, my experience was that it was just as competitive as a SBMM system, but with islands where there was a decent mix of chill games and competitive games at rank 5 of each tier + diamond 1.
@@Aquilenne I've heard there is a floor where you stop losing MMR or MMR loss is greatly slowed in our current system
I think matchmaking could be better, but I've started thinking of the game as a real "party game", in the sense that, like in a real party game like cards against humanity, the game is as fun as the players make it. I think the devs are successful in making their game a party game, but I kinda wanted to talk about my experience playing dbd first. btw, I am neither killer/survivor main, I just play both. I just want to mention that I agree with coconut on changes to the matchmaking system to the old grade system that resets every month, but I believe that has some problems to it too.
What I've noticed in my games in dbd lately, when I play killer, is that I have the option to play in the meanest way possible, or the nicest way possible. When I play mean, the game is incredibly unfun for survivors (because I slugged, proxy camped and tunnelled), and even though I 'won', it didn't feel fun because in thinking of it as a party game, I couldn't enjoy 'winning' at other's expense. When I play nice, it becomes fun if the survivors aren't trying super hard to escape or are not very good at the game, I have some fun chases and maybe I let people go if they struggled too much to get even 1 generator done. But sometimes when I played nice, the survivors try their hardest to win and the game can sometimes be unfun, depending on whether I can recognise quickly enough how serious they are playing.
The same is what I feel playing survivor (solo queue or with a friend or two), games have generally been dictated by how the killer plays as to how much fun we have in this 'party' game that we're playing. We try to mess around a bit as survivor and don't care about escaping too much, we work on gens and try to get everybody out, often dying in the process and having a good laugh because of how we messup sometimes in our attempts. Sometimes killers play mean, and the match becomes difficult and stressful, we still try to get out and take the game more seriously in these games but sometimes ends up being a boring game. Sometimes killers play nice, either in a competitive sense where they 2 hook everyone, or like a friendly knight player that went easy on 4 Ada Wongs that were dancing around him.
Although it seems I might be advocating that the game needs changes to fix the 'issues' of players that can play mean, I actually want the game to keep going the way it is, because I believe that the freedom of choice of how a player wants to play the game, is directly related to it being a party game, and if some people play mean on either side, that's their choice and we shouldn't limit their ability to have that choice. Some games will be rough and that's okay, the matchmaking might not be perfect, but it is attempting to separate those that try to play too 'sweaty' away from those that play this game more casually, so I'm not sure if changing back to the old system is the best solution, but it is an idea.
Yeah that wasn't the greatest claim you've ever made.
If you win a killer match in dbd, everyday when you play killer in SBMM feels like you're waking up in the military
Thoughts on a points system for perks? Instead of getting 4 perks, you instead get something like 10 points worth of perks, where the best ones are 4-5 points and worst ones are 1-2. This would allow a much easier way of balancing the perks while still having a variety of perks, some naturally being much better than others. Admittedly, this would be pretty hard to implement and I don't think behavior would do it literally ever, but I think it solves a lot of problems.
Comp dbd is boring no matter what rules they impose due to the playstyle being the same across all games.
The SBMM/MMR system is the same as the Rank system was just isn't visible. From the screenshots of old and the ones used in this video. The game takes the killers MMR/Rank and then ATTEMPTS to find a lobby that is AVG'd out to that as well. The one at 7:04 shows a Rank 9 Killer. The Survivors are 9, 11, 5, 8. Add those together and divide by 4 its 8.25 avg Rank for survivors. This is the same way that MMR/SBMM works now. Lets say the killer is soft cap 1600MMR (probably not based on old ranked system but for the ease of maths). Those survivors could be 1600, 1450, 1800, 1650. thats 1625 avg MMR. Which puts the lobby closer than the old rank system but its still within 1 "rank" worth of avg. It however is still all the same. Rank system matchmaking or MMR/SBMM matchmaking this will and has always happened
Used to play tournaments without any restrictions for survivor and only for killer which is a can of worms itself(old object and no tunneling allowed), but as both a killer and survivor who has never cared about running meta perks solely because every match would be the same and being stuck playing the same match over and over isnt fun anymore. Due to this, I have definitely been stuck in unwinnable matches that are harder than true competitive since I don't come into the game with the mindset of going for the win being my only fun and instead do my best to then laugh when I have been handed a plate of spankings instead of a winnable game.
I blame Hens for making the community focus on being competitive. Even in Casual.
I agree. Like the Wiretap exploit. He treats it as entertainment and gets confused when a teammate was pissed at him (for good reason).
Meanwhile, (i know some hate him) Otz, at least when he shows an outrageous build/tech/exploit. He at least says that devs should fix it because its problematic and wants to bring attention to devs to fix it (Although the devs lack of ambition made him stop that)
Back to Hens, he just showcases survivors how to be toxic abusing shits
@@FinestFantasyVI otz didn't used to showcase problematic builds. It was only after knowing Hens that his content started to shift towards more aggressive competition when he used to just showcase fun and memey builds that still worked well
@@SLKibara Really? Oh my god. Yeah, Hens really is ruining the game.
@@FinestFantasyVI you complained so much about wiretap but i dont see you talking about blights hug tech or wesker techs that are also exploits
@@Romeo-le2ez Werent those worked out by the devs? As in not in the game anymore? Im not a Blight or Wesker player, so even if it was, its not something thats easily replicated as simply stay on a gen and dont progress it over the bar
Whenever the most obnoxious and cringe thing happens that is related to DBD “pro scene”, it’s always V1 making a tweet.
On a more serious note - as I’ve stated many times, if a game involves any competition whatsoever, it will get competitive. It doesn’t have to become en Esport, it might even not be able to, like DbD. But as long as you put two people in a room and give them flags of different colors, there will be competition.
Moreover, this “meant to be played causally” is a weird thing. I am the kind of guy who doesn’t understand what “casual” is. I’ll never get into a tournament or smth, but with games - as with most things in life - I have a simple approach: either don’t touch at all or invest my time and soul in it, make it a passion, learn it. That’s how my brain works. And I’m also very competitive, so it is important for me to do as much as possible to win.
That’s why I am good at my job, that’s also why my friends don’t play video games with me, but that is why I enjoy DbD more than any game ever before. And that’s why I can’t just “play casually”: it’s not fun.
Coco couldnt have said it better imo. Why your my favourite DBD Content Creator.
MMR is broken. Few days ago I went to play as a killer. My 1st game was baby survivors P0 maybe 2-3 yellow perks, followed by a game with P100 where 2 players I could check out had over 2000 hours. It was jumping from one extreme to another.
Probably just gonna do this in video format at some point cause I got a lot to say about this but comment sections have a limit for the essays I can put. One thing I'ma talk about here is something not mentioned in the video at all. But something I'm seeing in these comments. And have seen a lot in general when it comes to this topic.
Person A: Omg I just wanna have fun casual games :(
Persona B: You can. Just don't care about winning.
That...doesn't work. You HAVE to care about winning...to an extent. Even in a simple innocent game like tic-tac-toe, you're playing to win. I think what people mean by "Don't care about winning" is things like.
"Don't play like your wife and kids are gonna leave you if you don't 4K/4 Man Out."
"Don't play like your house is gonna explode if you don't win at 5 Gens/leave the Killer with 0 Hooks"
But you still have to play the game towards your victory condition. Otherwise what resistance are you putting towards the opposition trying to achieve theirs? I think the biggest burden, is knowledge. You play this game for long enough and you get your ass kicked enough in your "Oh so sweaty" matches, and you just learn what to and not to do. Not saying Camp and Tunnel Killer Mains but you learn small stuff like "Yeah...at this point? Probably not worth it to chase the 0 Hook Survivor in an area with a ton of resources still and no Gens to defend." And I am just painfully more and more aware of when a decision is a game losing decision, and I wish I wasn't. But if I make that game losing decision in the name of "fun/not sweating", well now the game is just over. Cause I threw. And I'm getting T-Bagged anyways cause the Survivors are so convinced I just "FELL SO HARD FOR THE BAIT LOOOL".
Like even "non-sweaty" Survivors are still just overall good. It just becomes second nature to Survivors to play well. Forcing the Killer's hands sometimes. Met a "chill" Survivor but they were still running every loop perfectly. As tightly as possible. Always holding checkspots. Never losing mindgames unless it's a 50/50. And immediately doing something productive as soon as I take two steps away from them. Like both sides are just burdened by good/decent gameplay towards winning becoming 2nd nature.
I see where coconut is coming from but he's forgetting that being unrestricted applies to both sides so there's really no reason for pub matches to be harder on paper. In practice yes you can have potentially very hard matches if you don't use meta setups against meta but the same is true in a comp setting. In comp you usually go against players around the same skill level, but in pubs if you're above average or good you will tend to go against weaker players. I do agree though that the core of the issue is pubs requiring more and more to play optimally because of how strong some perks are, but a couple bad matches doesn't mean pubs are harder overall.
I do understand a bit with the "knowing what you're getting yourself into" (and being able to equip appropriate perks/addons to fit the task).
I hate that in pubs as Killer I'm all but forced to treat every single match as a super serious try hard SWF until proven otherwise. because if I don't, and I try to take it easy, and I'm wrong.,.. then by the time I realize it it'll already be too late to recover. And this means I end up often playing way too mean against players who didn't deserve it, and it's only later in the match that I realize I could've gone easier on them and had more fun myself as well as provided a better experience to the survivors (by taking more fun perks/addons or playing differently in the actual game)... if only I had known before the match started.
Now, I will note that rank based match making does create a unique issue where players who's skill is "low" for their rank are going to disproportionately lose a greater amount of their games, get discouraged, and are more likely to leave the game. And as the lowest skill bracket slowly leaves the game, the next set of players "barely" above them becomes the new "below average for their current rank" and they now become the lower winrate who get discouraged.
SBMM helps gaurantee that everyone, even players who play a ton but who aren't skilled, will have relatively balanced winrates as they have opponents who are actually matched to their skill.
Sadly the Light's Out mode is already being try-harded to all hell- let alone the sheer amount of cheaters. They think that since you can't see that getting 5 gens done in 1 minute and the gates nearly instantly opening isn't obvious, just cause they can hide the teleporting.
Coco, idk when you recorded this or if someone else already commented this... but the "Higher MMR Cap" was REVERTED at least 2-4 WEEKS AGO. I went from going against really good survivors who gave me runs for my money on my main killers EVERY GAME on EVERY KILLER to being able to 4k every lobby with my left toe on my worst characters. Regardless, talking about the improved mmr and making things harder, coco, WELL SAID. I get where youre coming from and i agree that behaviour did a horrible job with how they addressed changing mmr, they should not leave it in the current state that its in (reverted/old mmr cap) but make it a wider range with some kind of representation of progression. good vid and clarification
As someone going for adepts on both killer and survivor, i can confirm playing dbd is a massive headache 24/7. This last ditch effort achievement hunt for "fun" is shattering into a million pieces. I'm genuinely at a loss for words for how incompetent the dev team for this game is. If dbd released today in this state without the biggie deal licensed faces it'd die faster than any other "dbd killer" we've seen
Game has gotten too sweaty for me to have fun anymore.
I've got 5k hours and I play both sides pretty regularly, leaning more towards killer, and I've had to stop playing nearly as much as I used too due to new mmr.
Nearly every single match is an Uber sweat fest and I'm tired of it. I can't even play m1 killers anymore if I want to win consistently, had a clown daily a he's one of my favorite killers but I hate playing him anymore.
“DBD is a casual game” will forever be the worst take to be peddled by members of the community.
theres a reason why every esport game has equal numbers on each side and reasons why party and casuals gamemodes often dont
I'd be down for a sweaty mode tho, with restrictions like tournament...
This is so true. I also liked Dbd more when there was the old grade system.
same
Which one are we talking about the one before this new one or the old one where you basically had to earn a rank and keep it to go up against good killers cuz I somehow liked that one the most even tho it had some flaws
@@GodfreyFirstEldenLord Mean it just took an hour or two of gaming to get to a decent rank from day1 of reset.
Honestly to it feels like the new Lights out mode is meant to be the start of a hardcore mode.
For survivor side: no perks, can’t see when your team is healing, can’t see gen progress, can’t see killer, can’t see gen completion, can’t see far.
For killer: no perks, can’t see far, no survivor trail, can’t see gens completed.
To me it looks as if they are attempting to possibly add a new hardcore play mode or add this as the new competitive play. Only think this could be a competitive attempt because the current competitive play requires players certain perks to no perks as well.
A lot of multi player games are turning into this. Same reason I don’t play COD anymore. I only play a couple games of Dbd mostly because of this.
Twitter people arguing about shit everyone else doesn't care about? Consider me shook.
it also sucks that you could take a few months of a break but then the mmr system will remember that game a few months ago when you ended on a 4K and you’ll play against a comp team
Welp glad i went back to TF2 for that casual experience. Good luck yall who stuck with dbd but i grew tired of the tryhard mindset and I wish yall best.
In my experience, my matches haven't become harder consistently, the only consistent thing is I see stronger load-outs, which is expected when people anticipate the other side to also bring strong load-outs due to MMR. My opponent's skill is pretty low compared to mine so the system, to me, is still failing at qualifying skill properly and that seems like a given because escaping or killing Survivors is a laughably bad way of measuring skill since it doesn't consider how the player achieved that or what the other players were doing.
Regarding a system to use, I heavily oppose the idea of bringing back rank-based matchmaking, and it just sounds like looking back at the system through rose-colored glasses. The system was hated so much because it failed to create equally skilled matchmaking (even worse than our current system) and was easily exploitable. You mentioned yourself how you can manipulate your rank, which was a major problem with it since players could do this to face players they shouldn't, and stomp them. There were so many posts about bully squads, asking "Why are these players even in my lobby", and how it isn't fun to deal with any of this when the player wants to chill or is a new player learning the game.
I didn't try to rank up quickly, but I often played, so I reached rank 1 relatively fast, much like many content creators, who back then, still complained about facing super sweaty teams, often SWFs, bringing the second chance build, strong toolboxes or med-kits, maybe map offerings. The culture back then felt so cutthroat due to all of this, and I definitely noticed a divide in the community, viewing the other side as toxic by default.
I definitely agree some sense of progression is good for the game, so I liked that aspect of the old system. You rank up, have a dopamine response because you achieved something, and you may want to continue progressing, that's great for keeping players invested, but I think we can take that and still ask for better.
Both systems largely failed to me, yet we've learned a lot about what players enjoy, and don't enjoy, that can be used to carefully make a better system and environment. Unfortunately, so many of these things start with BHVR deciding what they want their game to be, as it seems like this indecisive stance of making the game casual and competitive at the same time, is a paradox as you said.
I relate to that feeling of this topic has gone on for so long, with so many videos about it, to the point where I'm looking forward to the new game modes as an escape, and I really do believe that's what a lot of players need if they're seeking a more casual environment. If BHVR sees this as a split between competitive and casual for game modes, then I hope they commit so everyone can be satisfied.
Competetive pokemon battling (pokemon showdown) has a system that breaks the pokemon into different groups based on their use.
Dbd could benefit from a system since bhvr already knows what items, perks, and addons are the most used for killer and survivor.
OU or overused would allow only the top 25% of perks and add ons
UU or under used would prohibit all the top 25% of perks and add ons
It would be hard to code i think but two queues for these could help with not always seeing at least 2 adrenalines pop every game.
What if the devs would get back those rank badges (I doubt it would happen since right now it would require UI change and those things take years to do according to reddit) and keep mmr?
Maybe for example limit people to get matched only within their division and maybe neighboring ones, but take their mmr into account while matching? And maybe remove deranking and depiping. That way pub stompers wouldn't be able to bully weaker players (which I think was the case of rank system and what forced mmr to happen) and games would feel more fair, while limiting how competetive you want your games (which would be like you said, according to the rank).
If 20 ranks/5 divisions would be too little, they could always put iri higher and create more filler divisions in between, like mud between ash and bronze or platinum between gold and iridescent.
They've added an option to lock your matches based on your platform, why can't they simply add an option to ignore/opt out of sbmm? Those who want to have difficult games or new players that want to face each other can turn it on, and those who are just wanting a generally more enjoyable/easier experience can turn it off.
I miss the old MM system and rankings, it felt good to play everyday with my buddy, grinding ranked to see how far we could get day one. Now he doesn't even play because "the matches are either a total loss or a huge win now. There's no difference" from what he said. Matches felt good to play for both sides back then, sure you'd run into SWF in the higher ranks but it's like that now.
You can tell when you're going up against a "red" rank now after green, because they either get a 4K or everyone escapes. I don't understand how they entice players to come checkout their game through licenses but ruin the experience by cranking up the MMR system they have.
Hey Coconut, ty so much for your commentary on these topics. The community and game is in a really volatile place rn, but your channel and input feels like a ray of sanity in the chaos rn.
Somebody had to point it out. The level of sweatiness we see is just unbearable right now. It makes the game unfun, and stressful for everyone to a greater and lesser degree. These days it’s usually greater. I left when they implemented SBMM originally then came back. It has lulls, and waves but the problem just keeps getting worse.
Honestly I believe SBMM without a ranked and casual mode, WILL be the cancer that kills this game. I’m just calling it now. The amount of hyper competitive, elitists in the community you find everywhere looking to chime in with “skill issue”, or “git gud” at any given discussion about the current meta even when it doesn’t make sense is already proving that.
I don’t know what the future of DBD is, but I’m pretty certain of this, fun is not going to be a part of it if BHVR doesn’t make some serious changes.
Grass is always greener.
I just returned to the game after not playing since 2018 and then as soon as I start winning on hillbilly like 12 games straight then boom! a survivor travel at the speed of light for the next three games
Accidents and Twitter do not mix. He'll Twitter and Twitter doesn't mix...
Something you forgot about old rankings is you reset down one level every month, not down to twenty. I always believed you never should have been able to go back to grey ranks once you left it so it could be saved for newbies.
But I've also been desperate for them to just add a god damn competitive queue to the game so if you wanna sweat you have that option.
I started playing dbd at the start of october of 2023 and most of my games were fun (I mostly played huntress). But since december I faced too many very skilled survivors who clearly knew more than me and had the best perks when i was running only 4 aura perks. Then I started implementing slowdown perks but they didn't help me as well. I stoped enjoying dbd since New Year and I regret buying all those survivors and killers dlc's. I like the game mechanics and artstyle of Dead by Daylight, but wherever there is a rank system or hidden mmr - there's sweat.
I uninstalled 2 1/2 years ago because it was clear this was the way things were going, even then. BHVR pushed out casual players - especially casual killers - and here we are.
a few problems:
1. as mmr increases more and more games become swayed by items offerings etc. people want to play with these things
2. dbd actually has a shallow playerbase often times to do good sbmm - the population of each skill bracket is skewed towards low and high skill players with small in between populations. either the acceptance window is so large games become unbalanced or queue times becomes long as hell
3. because of #2 the queues can't really get split without ruining the queue health
the only solution that feels possible to me is to revert to the old system otherwise DBD becomes a different game with competitive rules blocking common patterns in normal matches or to do something about the balance of these items in general, which doesn't really feel possible without reworking the entire thing ex. insta heals myers mori
Tbf, coconut does have bad takes from time to time
This one's a god one though
@@Tobichiiiit’s really not. Otz did a video about this some time ago, where there was a tournament that had no restrictions at all on both sides, and the average kill rate was 2.15 or something like that. It doesn’t get much more fair than an average of 2 survive, 2 die.
That being said, it was an older video; maybe late 2021. Game has changed since then so that tournament might not have as much weight now
@@ghostflame9211 that doesnt prove anything. The only thing that proves is that you either have restrictions and have much more variety as you can never know what perk each survivor has because there is only 1 lithe or 1 adrenaline per team and get ~2-3 kills every game, or you bring the strongest shit imaginable and have ~2-3 kills every game. As otz said: "DBD is becoming a game where you bring the strongest shit, and pray that the other side doesnt. Then you win."
@@ghostflame9211 I actually think this entire argument boils even less down to game mechanics and more to conflicting player attitudes.
This is honestly something I don't know if I've ever seen rectified in any PvP game that I've ever played, but there's always going to be that dichotomy between the player that is pretty much almost exclusively interested in doing things as optimally as possible in order to win, and that player that wants to play something more laid back and less calculated/"meta" oriented. I don't really even know what you can do to rectify that experience other than put them in separate queues, but I'm also pretty aware that a lot of the former type of player will also pop into the casual queue with the exact same mindset.
Idk, it's not an easy problem to tackle. Best case scenario is that you honestly make the game a little more boring and predictable by balancing it. I also see a lot of people really sad about the fact that the game feels less like...exciting without some of the insanely broken shit in it these days.
I really don't know where I stand. I've been pretty much having fun with the game since they got rid of the CoB/Eruption meta. Not 100% of the time, there's a lot of annoying shit both sides deal with, but it's better than it used to be for sure.
However, I do want the game to retain personality, and I do think some part of that personality is the janky and sometimes broken things incredibly good players can do.
Tbf, Otz was also testing teams against really strong killers like Nurse and Blight. Now try against Trapper, or Sadakeo, or even mid tier killers like Knight or Ghostface, it becomes hell for ya killer, especially when like Knight, certain addons are outright mandatory or just *bad*, so you can't match survivors at all in addon quality.
When I saw SBMM being introduced, I knew it was going to be an issue. I really wanna see the game come back to a casual game sense.
Lights out was incredibly underwhelming
It's taken me very long to actually unlock all the perks on surv and killer side, and now I can't even *try* to go for red ranks. :(
It's not that hard and more often than not it just means playing a lot cause the pip system is broken
At this point, I stopped trying to escape/4k. I play to complete archives and rift. Once rift is complete I stop playing til new rift, and there have been several rifts I've missed cuz other games were just more fun.
same, i do the rift and tome challenges. Tho I did lower my standards for a win as killer to 2k. Taking those smaller victories. Hell any rift challenge i can i will farm, like break gens, walls, pallets, simple stuff. But those like "get 20 gold emblems'" is when I have to actually put some effort
Coconut keeps going on about "SBMM being BHVR trying to push the game into a comp direction" when SBMM was literally introduced to stop sweaty Killers going against new players and baby solo teams. People literally were jumping for joy on the forums when SBMM was announced because there was constant complaints about it on every platform.
It'd be great if people stopped forgetting history that is inconvenient to whatever they're complaining about atm in the asym community.
EDIT: 6:40 he partly addresses it here but that isn't a good counterargument, because people also complained about depippers and how people would depip as both roles (but especially Killer) to get easier matches, remember that?
Oh hell no. Playing SQ during Ranked days was a freaking nightmare. Paradox would be coming back to the system that stomped casual players.