@@NathanealGovender Thanks. that is my feeling as well. There is a lot of info about cheap consumer gear, but this top industrial stuff which was well documented in all in paper.
I'm always fascinated by the economics of machines like this. I have no knowledge of what the machine tool market was like back then, but consider: First, that machine was built pre-internet. Someone sat down and figured that it was economically feasible to invest in the design and tooling to build that machine (what was the design cycle like for it?) and figured they could sell enough of them to recoup that investment. How long did it take to design, and what was the cost? How long to build the tooling to produce the machine, and what the cost? How many did they deliver, and (again) what was the cost? And on top of all that, the machine is entirely hydraulic. Yes, it has relays, but (apparently) no digital electronics, and yet has pretty amazing accuracy and resolution. Incredible.
Good points. Given the development of high pressure hydraulics (3000psi for airliners, up to 5K for military), Jet engine fuel control units, etc with their associated close tolerances, and also parts for the nuclear industry meant that the market for such grinders is greater than many think. I imagine Hamilton Sundstrand and Woodward governers probably have whole plants full of machines like this. My guess is that they such manufacturers run them till worn out, rebuild them, wear them out again and then scrape them.
There's another manufacturing category that uses a lot of grinders: diesel injector manufacturers. Grinding is used on many components of the injector, whether cam-driven or common rail, and in the high pressure pump. dieselnet.com/tech/images/diesel/fi/xpi_inj.jpg is an example of what the inside of an injector looks like. Gaskets and o-rings wouldn't hold up to the temperatures and pressures involved, so they aren't used inside the injector. Instead, extremely tight tolerances are used on matching ODs and IDs to provide sufficient sealing between moving parts, and for static joints extremely flat surfaces are clamped together to provide sealing. The tight tolerances on moving components have another benefit as well: the gaps are simply too small for most contaminant particles to fit into, meaning less abrasion and jamming. If you can wrangle yourself a tour of a fuel injector manufacturer, I think you'd find it interesting. ID and OD grinders, centerless, form grinders, microhole edm, hydroerosive grinding, etc etc etc.
You can be sure that isn't the first machine they built, even the first cylindrical grinder. They probably had lots of machines out there and a list of repeat customers who could request such a machine.
Wow! What an awesome machine. These automated hydraulic controls are incredible. I bet he got it for next to nothing compared to its capabilities… If I had a machine like this I would come up with so many more project ideas that I would most likely never get to start or even finish… so you are right: I need a cylindrical grinder now 😂. The model planes are astonishing as well! Thank you very much for the video
Thanks Markus. Yeah, this is the dream, picking up an industrial machine which never worked shifts. I think Franz has ground just about everything in his shop, and is eyeing up that box of nails as needing improvement.
Original grinding wheel, only worn 12mm... wow! 😂 The last OD grinder I used went through a wheel at least that large every 16h or so. Needless to say, we got good at changing them. One concern with a small coolant tank is temperature stability. The grinders I worked with (mostly UVA nomyline) had a chiller with at least two separately cooled circuits, chilling different parts of the machine to different temperatures. IIRC there were heat exchangers on the cutting oil, spindle oil, and hydrodynamic way oil, and coolant flowed through the frame and the linear motors as well. The cooling was good enough that warmup from power off only took ~5 minutes, as opposed to 30 min - 1 hr for older machines.
Man, at work I've been slowly learning how to use a manual cylindrical grinder from like the 70's it's quite a bit bigger, it's intimidating and I've done plenty of jobs on it and watching this I kept thinking those cuts are so much bigger than i take.
@@RotarySMP yeah it makes me want to try and take deeper passes, however the tailstock brass nut went out on the last job. Scrapped a part on the finish pass when the center loosened itself and lost all concentricity and made quite a terrific noise. We made a new nut and I tore it down and put the tailstock back together but i feel ill be a little more timid for awhile.
Mike from missouri us. Here, im a retired automotive machinist. Love the vidios! Look into crankshaft grinder wheel balance stands. They are plenty tall enough for his stones. Keep up the good job, mike t.
Young Park estimated 10K hours, but I am not sure if that was for one or for all three. They are made of thin aluminium and rivetted. Every single tiny rivet was driven like on the real plane.
Dang I'm jealous, I love grinding equipment like this, I need one of these in my home shop! Of all the hundreds of machine tools I've run precision grinders are the most fun for me, it's amazing what you can do with these things. I've done some parts measured in one-hundred thousandths of an inch with a similar setup, that's probably the tightest tolerances I've ever dealt with and I loved every minute of it.
@@RotarySMP Indeed! It saddens me to know how many of these were forgotten and rotten from neglect due to the owners not having the know-how to operate and maintain something like this. Your friend certainly lucked out finding a machine like this in such a good state, it's basically brand new with a bit of patina. It does make me feel good knowing that machine is in good hands, I'll give you that...
Servus Franz (mit dem hab ich eben telefoniert)! Bei 10:20 ... Entweder hast du die Scheibe nicht abgezogen, oder das Teil läuft noch komplett unrund. Auch wenn rundrum schon geschliffen wird. Man sieht das an den Funken und hört es auch. Klingt nicht gleichmässig, die Funken kommen unterbrochen. Nicht zustellen, ausfunken lassen. Zustellen, ausfunken. Das muss ganz weg. Wenn du Pech hast, dann überträgt sich das auch auf die Schleifscheibe und die wird dann zur Noppenscheibe. Bei sowas mit dem Finger auch die laufende Scheibe fühlen. Das muss komplett glatt sein. Übrigens darf man nicht an die laufende Scheibe fassen. 🙂 Ach, ich bin übrigens neidisch auf die TOS!
@@RotarySMP I know that CNC does most of this but there is something about these old machines, the old solutions that seem more like mechanical poetry when operating, more to figure out when exploring how the old guys put it together rather than just a circuit board and a 'fancy motor' not to spit on cnc since I use it to much lol
Thank you for the adventure! I don't _need_ one of those but I could certainly get some use out of one. It's on the list but that list, compared to the budget, is very long indeed 😅
i use a much bigger one at work. the grinding wheels (yes it has 2) are about 3 feet wide and about 16" in diameter. the parts slide between the wheels that spin the same direction and have an angled bar between them. the wheels are angled so that they move the part along the bar instead of staying in one spot. it also helps progressively grind the OD slowly instead of doing it aggressively you can run a hundred parts through it in about 8-10 minutes. it cant do tapers though only straight grind.
Thank you for taking a video to check out that grinder. It must be tricky to figure out topics that aren’t 100% on topic for current projects. This one was great!
You guys are awesome! Franz (I hope proper spelling) is a genius! I’ll be on the lookout for any of the items you guys stated in the video as soon as I am recuperated from procedure! I am in New York and there are soooo many old timers here that have a tight community & stick together. Warmest regards to you and yours.
To anyone willing to learn the grind I highly recommend Jeffery badger aka the grind doctor. I've inherited a 220" long Cincinnati milacron that uses a 30" wheel. The question what exactly is a spark came to mind. Friction so how do you know if your removing material from the part or the tool? Also if your using a true round wheel shouldn't the part also be round? I wish I had a tapper adjustment. To grind with the adjustment you can grind more detail. Very jealous great video
It’s as if I was back in my granddads shop & being taught by him Being only 9 years old I loved using all his machines & making some pocket money to boot 😊😊😊
...I have about 7 of them, for external and internal grinding, unto diameters of about 1200mm and can grind holes unto 1000mm deep. I somewhear have a TOS, but my TOS is not a grindig machine. If You have a surface grinder, you can make supports to make your balancing mount as high as you want. You could also make 2 leveled straight rods to level the wheel. If they are propperly adjusted, that works great. i use something selfmade to balance wheels with 800mm diameter. The internal grinding spindle is driven by some kind of belt on most old external grinding machines with internal grinding attachment. I have a small Toyoda with something like that, but i never use it, because i have a dedicated internal grinding machine.
Oh man, Franz owned an Anglia 105E as his first car? Me too! I don't still own it though. I think I thrashed the pants off it. Thanks for showing the footage of the Joe Martin Museum and the Titan engine. I would love to see some of the exhibits there. Regards, Preso
Hi Mark, Angleboxes were pretty common in NZ when I was a teen as well. Two of my mates had them, one with a 1500 cortina motor in it. Shit handling, and uncomfortable as hell :) I hope you get over to Carlsbad sometime. You would be treated like royalty there. (Actually everyone is, the guys there are really nice).
@@RotarySMP Ha! I fitted a 1500 Cortina motor to mine as well, plus a weber two barrel carb and extractors. It overheated regularly and the gap between second and third gear was huge. Ton of fun though.
@@Preso58 First car I ever power slid around a corner... and my first driver induced osscillation, as I overcorrected and fishtailled down the track :)
Now I know where Barry Jordan's Bridgeport and Holbrook models ended up ! Last saw them in 1998 at the exhibition we held for the SM&EE centennial celebrations at Brunel University. (Barry was in attendance!)
I have worked with these machines in school a 3 years ago. While these machines are extremely well automated, if not in a perfect condition it sucks. But I see thats not a problem here. I think I know a guy who knows a guy who can youthe balancing jig and the ID grinding attachment
@@RotarySMP G'day there a awesome machine really solid we have a 80's model gets a lot of use still grinds microns ! the spindle is the thing its hydrodynamic if the oil pump fails its all over !! only other thing i can think of is the oil seal on the tailstock can leak coolant in and cause ware ,its a issue for ours now . hope that's helpful
@@lewisl5985 Thanks Lewis, that is helpful. Luckily Franz is very fastidious with his machines, and always ensures clean oil, and oil flow before turning on the spindle.
A DIY cylindrical grinder might be a fun project. A super small desktop scale machine to make something like an Iso 20 belt driven spindle for a desktop cnc mill (which does not seem to exist).
I think cylindrical grinders are always very heavy and massive for their swing, as you need extreme damping and rigidity for grinding to make sense. If the machine is just going to impart vibration patterns into the work, there is no point.
@@RotarySMP We have a little cylindrical grinder at our shop with something like a 75 or 100mm chuck. It takes up about the same space as one of those cheap Chinese benchtop lathes, Ill have to look for a model number tomorrow. I think they can get away with the size by using a much smaller and more narrow wheel. If you're really into this type of thing I think it would make a great project!
I have a Covel No.32 Universal and cylindrical grinder that is laid out almost identically. The Ways for the table need scraped and they are like 6 feet (2 meters) long... not looking forward to the work. Have to finish scraping in my Covel #4023 10x16" surface grinder first. These old machines are awesome but I would have killed to find one in such great shape!
It is a really nice machine. I have learned that I am crap at filming things which are more complex than me working alone in my basement. I dont have much more useable footage.
@@RotarySMP That's okay.. it is probably due to time zone change and excitement! Thanks for just showing it.. now i know where to look. Modern machines yes I know relays still make noises, just doesn't have that "tactile" sensation that convey weight?
A follow up vid showing some of the prep for operation would be nice. Like truing the wheel profile - the short stroke on the taper means the resulting profile is almost entirely controlled by the wheel profile. Also, the grind kept showing an interrupted contact, why is that?
Hello Mark, Really interesting video... I know Carlsbad quite well as my daughter lived there for 7 years and I would visit a few times a year. Sadly I was not aware of the museum. I am hoping to go there next year to visit my ex father in law so will for sure visit the museum then. Take care. Paul,,
As a profesional grindef i think you should use more coolant (water). Habe auch mitbekommen, dass ihr deutsch sprecht. Wenn Ihr verhindern wollt, dass euch das Kühlwasser wegspritzt musst du die Abdeckung oben näher an die Schleifscheibe schieben das keine Luft mehr durchgeht. Gruss aus der Schweiz
That'd be great for reamers... I concur on the spare room for hoarders, my garage is filled. Carlsbad also a surfing mecca, but then there are many down there. An Awesome state in the 1980s, esp. SoCal. You should find The Post-apocalyptic Inventor's now famous junkyard in Germany, he's scored loads of .DE made gems.
Sorry, my Englisch is very bad, please use Google translate 😉😆ich habe auf einer ähnlichen Maschine von tos einige Jahre gearbeitet. Diese war Baujahr ca 1970 und hatte weniger Funktionen aber lief einwandfrei und sehr genau 👍 außerdem hatte ich in der Firma auch eine Maschine zum innen rund schleifen von wmw ( DDR) mit Nocken und Relais Schaltungen für den schleif Zyklus . Schwer zu bedienen für jemand der Jünger ist als die Maschine 😆 deine Tos gefällt mir sehr gut.
@@RotarySMP you know I have confidence I can I'm actually a very good grinder a.d with engineering skills, I guess I'm a little unsure were to start and I'm worried about how my current employer might take it 😅 maybe I need to talk to them ,never know Mayne they will give me work , it would be nice to find somone with a similar skill set or skills in the field with like dreams ....
@@nikolaiownz You are obviously filling a need, making complex parts on time and on cost for your customers. Extrapolating your growth curve ... and looking in my crystal ball... you will eat those words :)
It is. I think you quickly run out of work for it in the home shop. Franz ground every round thing he could find. I saw him gazing at a box of nails, worried about the poor surface finish :)
Chips are nice and all but sparks do touch my heart a bit more. Grinding could use some more maker representation here on the youtube. looking forward to the lathe completion \o/
leave it to an airplane mechanic from austria to tell me about a cool museum in my own town that id never heard of hope san diego/SoCal was kind to you
Rewatching this vid, likely for the 3rd time now... Damn, that is some savage preload on that spindle... My surface grinder while stiff, can be turned by hand with little issues... In fact, whenever i start the spindle, i turn it by hand and then tap the switch to power up... It eases the life for the motor, and its in general a bad idea safety-wise, which is why i do it with all my machines... Lathes, mills, grinders... Even the angle grinder gets a wrist flick before i snap the trigger into position... But that TOS grinder is almost like a diesel engine with 20-1 compression... Why in the hell is it so strongly preloaded? The wheel mass and diameter i guess, but while 40cm is much larger than my s.g. wheels of 24cm, i dont see 16cm dia difference warranting that much of a preload difference... Especially since they are the same width wheels... Btw, that twin ways spoken of lathe is on her way to my driveway this friday... Checked her out yesterday, literally not a single new spot o` rust... Told ya that my lubricant coverage game was supreme... Now i just have to sell a few pneumatic collet closers and such accessories to get 3x the money that i spend on my last few machines back, per piece... The last lathe i picked up for peas has a large pneu collet closer which i can likely sell for 1.5k$ or so, which literally covers the machine, the transport and my trips to check her out and all that by like 3 times... Or, it pays off that lathe, the lathe im about to get and the deckel s1 that i picked up a year or so ago, and their respective transports... And i have quite a few of such things to dish out... And a huge hydraulic vise to fix up, scrape in and dish out for somewhere around 1k... The bloody thing is half a meter long... You dont want that brick slipping outta your hands and falling on the feet... That is a quick and dirty amputation... I got it for what was it? 30 euros? Something ridiculous like that... It would fit my large mill, but its just an instant waste of table space, as with that, nothing else could be mounted... It would have to sit parallel to the table rather than as you usually mount a machine vise... It was bought exclusively for restoration and re-sale... Even my surface grinder cant use it, which is enormous, at least when compared with most youtube shop surface grinders... Don`s from Suburban notwithstanding... Tony`s grinder is a toy compared to it... Literally a bench grinder in comparison, given that you can actually take parts off of `er and move them as a single human... Its kinda how Jeremy Clarkson described the Bentley Arnage 2007... A cathedral... I will film that lathe when she comes... I wont however film my shop yet, as its a fucking mess and in no state to be displayed... Not with 4 large machines stacked like sardines, next to each other... The rest is more or less in permanent positions, well 2 of those 4 are also in permanent places, even 3, as the third has to budge a bit to the right where the aforementioned lathe now sits while i work on her... Tho, i must tell you, everytime i watch this video, i curse myself for missing out on a fortuna cylindrical grinder... I was a day too late for it... She got cut apart with oxy torch by the time i got there... Tho, i did save the parts head and tailstock for a special project that is the aforementioned machine 3... But its such a sad thing thinking of the sight of that beautiful machine being cut by oxy-aceti to bits... I should have put down a deposit and gotten her... A damned sin that was... Oh the grief this world conjures... And only because someone died and the machine was tossed out, and my ass was too indecisive... Never again my friend, never again will i let a machine be obliterated if i can save her and sell her to a loving new home, where she will outlast the new caregiver... I think i still have a slagged t-bolt from the slant table off of that grinder somewhere... I guess as a masochistic reminder... All the best and kindest regards! Steuss
Hi Steuss. Seeing a serviceable cylinderical grinder the day after they started butchering it with a gas axe. Enough to make a strong man weep! There was a scrappy who lived a floor below us in our old apartment. Nice guy, but for them it is all just metal. He did sell me the Deckel G1L frame for €20 which was nice. That became my first "mill". There was also a vertical gear shaping machine in the scrappies yard. A swiss one. No way I could save it. Real shame. Over here the value of machines is roughly inversely porportional to mass. Once a lathe exceeds abut a 2m bed length, you can barely give it away. Small machines go for top dollar. Cheers, Mark
@@RotarySMP Kind of the same story with my side... The scrap boss is a great guy, just a lovely man, and his wife is aswell, they both run the place, a family business with 7 other employees... I asked him why doesnt he do something about good shit he can offer for a long time, for quite a profit at that, even if just oiled once a year and not left to rot in the rain and then get tossed into shredders for little profit to him... Same deal, he cant see it as anything other than metal, as it would be a ruinous politic for the business... I dont agree, hell, i could manage that place, make him at least 1.2x the current profit and keep the machines in a small area under cover, so fanatics like me can buy them... But i dont think that i want a job of a manager, nor do i think he would accept the proposal anyway... ``dont fix what aint broke type of deal`` Tho, that Deckel engraver body was such a great snag... I do have a fetish for plain machine bodies with just tables and such, no workheads... They offer amazing project foundations... Regarding the machine market, same here, im in the ex-yugo zone, and its the same deal... The larger and heavier, regardless of quality, goes proportionally down with the price... Lest its a fully restored, above OEM grade machine, then its a separate arrangement, but just used machines, yeah, the bigger they are, the harder they fall... Regarding that grinder, yeah, really a tragedy, but i just didnt ever consider taking on that type of machine at that point, and so i could not just jump on it... I should have, but fuck it, i saved some parts from her, and i saved quite a few other machines from the same fate, so i have to be happy with the soldiers that live on to march again, not fail in my duty towards them over grief... Every doctor has to accept similar losses, i guess that a machinist/millwright has to at some point as well... But dude, that damned lathe is likely coming over tomorrow... I`ll film her as is and post - when the truck deposits her ass before my shop... She aint movin` in, as i have to both clean and brush all the dreck off of her before i even consider letting her ass in... And i have to make a support pillar from the basement to uphold the garage, as the lathe from the last comment cant go where she needs to before that is done... I cant have an unsupported floor carrying a 1 metric ton... I likely could do it, as her floorprint is large enough to spread out the load, but that is not how i roll... Structural integrity and absolute safety come above all else...
We have an older TOS surface grinder :) A Cylindrical is from Kellenberger 57U - also as an interesting Austrian machine... an EMD "sinker" . havent found any info about this machine... i gues these were made in s small family business. early 90"s probably.... Greetings aus Ungarn .. Viel spass !
lovely grinder ! I have also TOS cylindrical grinder but older one type 2UD. Iam about to buy the same TOS tool and cutter grinder BN 102. Would you want to make a video about it ? Cheers
No winder I thought I knew that surface grinder from somewhere... I think tools and machines are like gases, they expand to occupy all available space 😂😂 I wish my farm shed was 1/2 as cool as his, I don't have my fisrt motorcycle but I have my 2nd one, throwing away salvageable stuff goes against my religion, all hail the Holey Packrat.
I know where I can get up cylindrical grinder here in Fairbanks Alaska that monster weighs more than 10,000 pounds I think you can cylindrical the grind about 6 foot long something about half that size would be perfect
Very nice machine. If only I had the space and the budget. I'm ashamed to say I'm not a farmer so my first car and bicycle aren't in my garage :( btw, so many "giving a Tos" joke opportunities missed :)
I have a Dremel mounted to my 7" Harbor Freight lathe so that I can get precise diameters on long shafts. If that counts as a cylindrical grinder in a home shop I'll happily make a video. :D
How did that work out for you on a long shaft? I have used my Proxxon grinder in the mini lathe with a cut off disc, and it makes really nice clean circlip grooves.
i see in an auctuon an Fritz Sauber RM250 high presition cilindrical grinder, can you grind +- 2 micron in 25mm diameter, realy nice if you do inyection nozzles. But its tiny.
Hi Michal, No sure what is wrong with the TH-cam comment engine. This one showed up in my YT Studio, but not in the video. Please contact me through the email address on my channel "about" page, and I will put you in touch with Franz.
@@RotarySMP Hi RotarySMP, I was thinking about same thing. Google probably doesn't like me for some reason. I'll try to reformulate message a little and try email then ;)
@@RotarySMP My friend bought a TOS cylindrical grinder a few month ago, he still has it in storage, but when we find a place for it in his workshop and clean it up it will be ready to use again, would love to play with it.
I’ve got a TOS BN102C tool and cutter grinder, was very interested to see your friend’s. Any chance you could get a video or photos of all the accessories, I’d like to know if I’m missing anything!
WOW! That was an impressive video! From the cylindrical grinder to the Craftsmanship Museum, I watched it all with eyes wide open 🙂 Great shout-out to Mark Presling's impressive Titan model engine build (I eagerly watched the whole series). Playlist here: th-cam.com/play/PLbPzkHRZCQB8uBSFsim70U9hKNhcpp7Xk.html
Fantastic machine. Many thanks to all those countries that manage to destroy econonically all central and eastern europe countries and their big machine industry, including TOS. Great film, thank you
Destroyed? The Czech republic is richer than it has ever been, and this company still exists, and still makes (CNC) grinders under the TOS Hostivar brand: www.toshostivar.cz/en/
@@RotarySMP TOS had many manofacturing sites across Czech and Slovakia. In Poland there were lot of companies making lathes, milling machines, grinders, shapers for steel industry, wood industry, shipyars. Nice companies making metering tools like VIS. You probably know Bison chucks, toolholding, vises. Bison still exist but it's rather on paper:( in my city all the machine building factories were destroyed by "western" companies telling they'll invest and develop. In reality they took over just to shut everything down year or two later. The same scenario happen to many, and i mean many high quality machines making businesses. In the past they were using tanks. Nothing changed basically:/
@@RotarySMP i was in TOS factory in Brno, Slovakia couple of years ago. Empty spaces, ruined warehouses. They were selling out thier own machines they were using for production. I was interested is one of their milling machines: TOS FNK-25A. A beast compared to Bridgeport.
Cylindrical grinders are used to refurbish car steering racks. I have seen them working, but i didn't thing that those are generic machines, they looked like dedicated equipment to me
This was really fascinating cheers! I’ve never really gotten my head round how something that gets eroded makes something so ultra precise. I mean how can it tell when enough is removed?
@@RotarySMP The only thing I can think of is that grinding takes off a lot less material at a time than any blade/tool based process. I imagine that the finest precision is also limited to fairly hard materials that don't gum up the abrasive, so that you get a consistent "scrape". Also, with the two rotating masses (the wheel and the workpiece) you have statistics at work where any point errors are quickly avereged out over the whole surface, if that makes sense.
I found same machine with the internal grinding attachment here on one of the general "craigslist" type of site we have in Czech. Is Franz still interested? Not sure if they are willing to part the machine out or they would only sell it as whole. It is located in Brno so not far from Wien and there was edit 5 days ago. So it might be still available. There is no price, but I guess Franz know how much to pay for it :-) let me know and I send you the link.
I didn't catch the brand name of that Austrian drill press, and I cannot seem to find it anywhere online. If you happen to catch this comment, I'd love to know! Thanks for the great videos
Hi James, It was made by a company called Alois Ronzal GmbH, and branded ARO. It is the model T. I did a forum thread on the restoration on a german language forum. Google translate should hopefully help... forum.zerspanungsbude.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18010
To answer your question: Everyone.
Everyone needs a cylindrical grinder. :)
Bingo...correct answer Tony :)
I thought I recognised the first few frames of this video
@@NathanealGovender TOT helped me out with a clip.
@@RotarySMP Great video. It's so hard to find information on these conventional machines.
@@NathanealGovender Thanks. that is my feeling as well. There is a lot of info about cheap consumer gear, but this top industrial stuff which was well documented in all in paper.
It warms my heart to see Franz making parts to fix his own tractors. I hazard he doesn't buy the bait and switch that is modern John Deere equipment.
No, his tractor park ends in the 1960's I think.
My 1025R has been bulletproof and beats the tits off anything else available in that size
@@JH-tc3yu Tractor or grinder?
I'm always fascinated by the economics of machines like this. I have no knowledge of what the machine tool market was like back then, but consider: First, that machine was built pre-internet. Someone sat down and figured that it was economically feasible to invest in the design and tooling to build that machine (what was the design cycle like for it?) and figured they could sell enough of them to recoup that investment. How long did it take to design, and what was the cost? How long to build the tooling to produce the machine, and what the cost? How many did they deliver, and (again) what was the cost? And on top of all that, the machine is entirely hydraulic. Yes, it has relays, but (apparently) no digital electronics, and yet has pretty amazing accuracy and resolution. Incredible.
Good points. Given the development of high pressure hydraulics (3000psi for airliners, up to 5K for military), Jet engine fuel control units, etc with their associated close tolerances, and also parts for the nuclear industry meant that the market for such grinders is greater than many think. I imagine Hamilton Sundstrand and Woodward governers probably have whole plants full of machines like this. My guess is that they such manufacturers run them till worn out, rebuild them, wear them out again and then scrape them.
There's another manufacturing category that uses a lot of grinders: diesel injector manufacturers. Grinding is used on many components of the injector, whether cam-driven or common rail, and in the high pressure pump.
dieselnet.com/tech/images/diesel/fi/xpi_inj.jpg is an example of what the inside of an injector looks like. Gaskets and o-rings wouldn't hold up to the temperatures and pressures involved, so they aren't used inside the injector. Instead, extremely tight tolerances are used on matching ODs and IDs to provide sufficient sealing between moving parts, and for static joints extremely flat surfaces are clamped together to provide sealing. The tight tolerances on moving components have another benefit as well: the gaps are simply too small for most contaminant particles to fit into, meaning less abrasion and jamming.
If you can wrangle yourself a tour of a fuel injector manufacturer, I think you'd find it interesting. ID and OD grinders, centerless, form grinders, microhole edm, hydroerosive grinding, etc etc etc.
@@markp5726 Good point. I would love to tour an injector plant.
You can be sure that isn't the first machine they built, even the first cylindrical grinder. They probably had lots of machines out there and a list of repeat customers who could request such a machine.
Analog is more accurate than digital!
Looks like farm life is a homeshop machinists’ dream. Nice video!
Oh yes. He is very well equipped with machines.
I live just a few minutes away from Mělník. It is nice to see machines made in Czechia / Czechoslovakia. Great job showing this complex machine.
You can be proud of the Czech industrial history.
Wow! What an awesome machine. These automated hydraulic controls are incredible. I bet he got it for next to nothing compared to its capabilities…
If I had a machine like this I would come up with so many more project ideas that I would most likely never get to start or even finish… so you are right: I need a cylindrical grinder now 😂. The model planes are astonishing as well! Thank you very much for the video
Thanks Markus. Yeah, this is the dream, picking up an industrial machine which never worked shifts. I think Franz has ground just about everything in his shop, and is eyeing up that box of nails as needing improvement.
@@RotarySMP Which nails don't need improvement, after all?
@@hughmac13 If the broom handle would fit though the head stock, he would probably grind that round as well.
90% of my job for the past year is using a cylindrical grinder so it's good to see it get a bit of love
Fascinating machines aren't they.
You’re right, I gotta have one of those 😍!
Me too :)
You are absolutely right. I have absolutely no need for one, but am actively searching for one now.
There is a line forming :)
That is a wonderful machine and I'm sure will serve well. Thanks for letting us take a look.
Thanks for your kind feedback.
Appreciate all your videos, its a pleasure to get a notification from your channel 👍
Thanks for your support.
Did you see me waving as you flew over Arizona? The museum is officially on my list! Thanks for sharing.
Wow the whole US west is dry. I have never seen it that dry.
Original grinding wheel, only worn 12mm... wow! 😂 The last OD grinder I used went through a wheel at least that large every 16h or so. Needless to say, we got good at changing them.
One concern with a small coolant tank is temperature stability. The grinders I worked with (mostly UVA nomyline) had a chiller with at least two separately cooled circuits, chilling different parts of the machine to different temperatures. IIRC there were heat exchangers on the cutting oil, spindle oil, and hydrodynamic way oil, and coolant flowed through the frame and the linear motors as well. The cooling was good enough that warmup from power off only took ~5 minutes, as opposed to 30 min - 1 hr for older machines.
I will pass that on to Franz. Good point.
5:11 Wow, that automatic coarse / fine feed in is magic. Never seen something like this, especially in mostly purely mechanical machine.
Yeah, it does three or four spark out, fine feeds at the end of the cycle. This thing is like a swiss watch.
Man, at work I've been slowly learning how to use a manual cylindrical grinder from like the 70's it's quite a bit bigger, it's intimidating and I've done plenty of jobs on it and watching this I kept thinking those cuts are so much bigger than i take.
It seems these beasts will chomp through metal pretty fast.
@@RotarySMP yeah it makes me want to try and take deeper passes, however the tailstock brass nut went out on the last job. Scrapped a part on the finish pass when the center loosened itself and lost all concentricity and made quite a terrific noise. We made a new nut and I tore it down and put the tailstock back together but i feel ill be a little more timid for awhile.
@@erok268 Good to get a feel for the machine again.
Oh wow, hope you had an overall lovely time in my hometown of San Diego. I need to check out this museum!
You should!
👏👏👏👏👏👏Thanks a lot, to post the video tena koe , Kia ore!!! Beautiful ! Love it
Glad you enjoyed it.
Mike from missouri us. Here, im a retired automotive machinist. Love the vidios! Look into crankshaft grinder wheel balance stands. They are plenty tall enough for his stones. Keep up the good job, mike t.
I will check it out
The detail in those models is just astonishing, I wouldn't even like to guess the number of hours that must go into them.
Young Park estimated 10K hours, but I am not sure if that was for one or for all three. They are made of thin aluminium and rivetted. Every single tiny rivet was driven like on the real plane.
@@RotarySMP im now imagining a miniature pneumatic hot rivet hammer 😅
@@RJ-wx3fh The guy was a retired dentist, so he was used to working with small scale precision.
Beautiful machine, TOS machines are very well built.
Yes they are!
Dang I'm jealous, I love grinding equipment like this, I need one of these in my home shop! Of all the hundreds of machine tools I've run precision grinders are the most fun for me, it's amazing what you can do with these things. I've done some parts measured in one-hundred thousandths of an inch with a similar setup, that's probably the tightest tolerances I've ever dealt with and I loved every minute of it.
It is nice to see that the machine in this condition lands with a mate like Franz who knows what to do with it.
@@RotarySMP Indeed! It saddens me to know how many of these were forgotten and rotten from neglect due to the owners not having the know-how to operate and maintain something like this. Your friend certainly lucked out finding a machine like this in such a good state, it's basically brand new with a bit of patina. It does make me feel good knowing that machine is in good hands, I'll give you that...
@@TheExplosiveGuy Shame it is not our hands :)
@@RotarySMP lol too right😂
I haven't even finished the video but I already know I need one!
That was always a risk :)
That is one super cool machine!
It really is.
Wow, cool machine, thanks for the overview. Very impressive for a home workshop!
Yeah, my mate has the experience needed to run it as well. Nice machine.
Your right. I want one now.
Get in line :)
What a gorgeous machine! Amazing find!!
I think so too!
Thank you for sharing this with us! I knew what a cylindrical grinder was and what it was for but I have never had the opportunity to run one.
Thanks you the kind feedback
Marvellous stuff, thank you!
It is a really nice machine.
Servus Franz (mit dem hab ich eben telefoniert)!
Bei 10:20 ... Entweder hast du die Scheibe nicht abgezogen, oder das Teil läuft noch komplett unrund. Auch wenn rundrum schon geschliffen wird. Man sieht das an den Funken und hört es auch. Klingt nicht gleichmässig, die Funken kommen unterbrochen. Nicht zustellen, ausfunken lassen. Zustellen, ausfunken. Das muss ganz weg. Wenn du Pech hast, dann überträgt sich das auch auf die Schleifscheibe und die wird dann zur Noppenscheibe. Bei sowas mit dem Finger auch die laufende Scheibe fühlen. Das muss komplett glatt sein.
Übrigens darf man nicht an die laufende Scheibe fassen. 🙂
Ach, ich bin übrigens neidisch auf die TOS!
this is amazing, automated hydraulics is something I have never explored before
This sort of task has since be largely taken over by CNC, as motors an electronics are cheaper than hydraulics. It is a very cool machine.
@@RotarySMP I know that CNC does most of this but there is something about these old machines, the old solutions that seem more like mechanical poetry when operating, more to figure out when exploring how the old guys put it together rather than just a circuit board and a 'fancy motor' not to spit on cnc since I use it to much lol
Love it. A cylindrical grinder is on
My list. Unfortunately they all seem too take up huge amounts of workshop space. One day I will find space
Yep, it is a large footprint considering it's work envelope. Wont fit in my basement :(
Thank you for the adventure! I don't _need_ one of those but I could certainly get some use out of one. It's on the list but that list, compared to the budget, is very long indeed 😅
I know that list :)
@@RotarySMP LOL
Lovely machine and great presentation. Wish I had space for one but only just squeezed in an MG12.
I googled MG-12 grinder, and it is either a meat grinder or a Myford :)
Great video. The museum looks amazing and nice to see Mark's engine on display.
Thanks. It really is a nice collection that Joe Martin put together.
Very cool machine. I need a larger shop.
You and me both!
Love your channel u mix homemade with shop made tooling with maestry keep doing the great job congratulations from Brazil
Obrigado pelo apoio.
i use a much bigger one at work. the grinding wheels (yes it has 2) are about 3 feet wide and about 16" in diameter.
the parts slide between the wheels that spin the same direction and have an angled bar between them. the wheels are angled so that they move the part along the bar instead of staying in one spot. it also helps progressively grind the OD slowly instead of doing it aggressively
you can run a hundred parts through it in about 8-10 minutes. it cant do tapers though only straight grind.
So that is a centerless grinding machine right?
Thank you for taking a video to check out that grinder. It must be tricky to figure out topics that aren’t 100% on topic for current projects. This one was great!
This one was easy. As soon as I saw the machine I asked Franz if I could show case it :)
I have a tos surface grinder. Such a good machine
You are also a lucky guy.
very good video rotarysmp
Thanks as ever.
Pretty cool machine.
It sure is.
You guys are awesome! Franz (I hope proper spelling) is a genius! I’ll be on the lookout for any of the items you guys stated in the video as soon as I am recuperated from procedure! I am in New York and there are soooo many old timers here that have a tight community & stick together. Warmest regards to you and yours.
I wish you a complete and speedy recovery.
To anyone willing to learn the grind I highly recommend Jeffery badger aka the grind doctor. I've inherited a 220" long Cincinnati milacron that uses a 30" wheel. The question what exactly is a spark came to mind. Friction so how do you know if your removing material from the part or the tool? Also if your using a true round wheel shouldn't the part also be round? I wish I had a tapper adjustment. To grind with the adjustment you can grind more detail. Very jealous great video
Thanks for the feedback.
It’s as if I was back in my granddads shop & being taught by him
Being only 9 years old I loved using all his machines & making some pocket money to boot 😊😊😊
That is how I feel when I go visit Franz
...I have about 7 of them, for external and internal grinding, unto diameters of about 1200mm and can grind holes unto 1000mm deep. I somewhear have a TOS, but my TOS is not a grindig machine. If You have a surface grinder, you can make supports to make your balancing mount as high as you want. You could also make 2 leveled straight rods to level the wheel. If they are propperly adjusted, that works great. i use something selfmade to balance wheels with 800mm diameter. The internal grinding spindle is driven by some kind of belt on most old external grinding machines with internal grinding attachment. I have a small Toyoda with something like that, but i never use it, because i have a dedicated internal grinding machine.
Wow, that is quite a shop you describe. Nice.
@@RotarySMP i grind for living...it's my job:-)
Oh man, Franz owned an Anglia 105E as his first car? Me too! I don't still own it though. I think I thrashed the pants off it. Thanks for showing the footage of the Joe Martin Museum and the Titan engine. I would love to see some of the exhibits there.
Regards,
Preso
Hi Mark,
Angleboxes were pretty common in NZ when I was a teen as well. Two of my mates had them, one with a 1500 cortina motor in it. Shit handling, and uncomfortable as hell :)
I hope you get over to Carlsbad sometime. You would be treated like royalty there. (Actually everyone is, the guys there are really nice).
@@RotarySMP Ha! I fitted a 1500 Cortina motor to mine as well, plus a weber two barrel carb and extractors. It overheated regularly and the gap between second and third gear was huge. Ton of fun though.
@@Preso58 First car I ever power slid around a corner... and my first driver induced osscillation, as I overcorrected and fishtailled down the track :)
really nice to see your Titan engine in the Museum, Preso. I enjoyed that series a lot.
TOS , great machines!
They really are.
Another machine added to the list
I know that list by heart :)
Never knew about that museum - thank you for sharing. Another great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Preso's engine! That museum looks fantastic. Need to get out there some time.
You should. Do you follow the website? I added a link to the info page.
@@RotarySMP I did not but do now. Cheers.
@@BravoCharleses A lot of those old posts from the early 2000's are full of gold nuggets.
Very good thanks for sharing
Thanks for visiting
Now I know where Barry Jordan's Bridgeport and Holbrook models ended up ! Last saw them in 1998 at the exhibition we held for the SM&EE centennial celebrations at Brunel University. (Barry was in attendance!)
I wonder where his D,S&G model is. I would love to see it.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing! 😎
Thanks for watching.
I have worked with these machines in school a 3 years ago. While these machines are extremely well automated, if not in a perfect condition it sucks. But I see thats not a problem here.
I think I know a guy who knows a guy who can youthe balancing jig and the ID grinding attachment
Please email me via the address on the channel "about! page, and I will put Franz in contact with you.
Wow.. extra point for showing Marks engine!
No good deed goes unpunished :)
what a TOS great machine use one at work
Do you have any specific recommendations for its use or maintenance for Franz?
@@RotarySMP G'day there a awesome machine really solid we have a 80's model gets a lot of use still grinds microns ! the spindle is the thing its hydrodynamic if the oil pump fails its all over !! only other thing i can think of is the oil seal on the tailstock can leak coolant in and cause ware ,its a issue for ours now . hope that's helpful
@@lewisl5985 Thanks Lewis, that is helpful. Luckily Franz is very fastidious with his machines, and always ensures clean oil, and oil flow before turning on the spindle.
A DIY cylindrical grinder might be a fun project. A super small desktop scale machine to make something like an Iso 20 belt driven spindle for a desktop cnc mill (which does not seem to exist).
I think cylindrical grinders are always very heavy and massive for their swing, as you need extreme damping and rigidity for grinding to make sense. If the machine is just going to impart vibration patterns into the work, there is no point.
@@RotarySMP We have a little cylindrical grinder at our shop with something like a 75 or 100mm chuck. It takes up about the same space as one of those cheap Chinese benchtop lathes, Ill have to look for a model number tomorrow. I think they can get away with the size by using a much smaller and more narrow wheel. If you're really into this type of thing I think it would make a great project!
@@EpicZombiez2314 Sounds like a cool machine. Please post the name so I can google it.
I have a Covel No.32 Universal and cylindrical grinder that is laid out almost identically. The Ways for the table need scraped and they are like 6 feet (2 meters) long... not looking forward to the work. Have to finish scraping in my Covel #4023 10x16" surface grinder first. These old machines are awesome but I would have killed to find one in such great shape!
Yeah, he certainly got luck on this one.
I love that tick tick tick precision! Will you be showing us more of the museum?
It is a really nice machine.
I have learned that I am crap at filming things which are more complex than me working alone in my basement. I dont have much more useable footage.
@@RotarySMP That's okay.. it is probably due to time zone change and excitement! Thanks for just showing it.. now i know where to look. Modern machines yes I know relays still make noises, just doesn't have that "tactile" sensation that convey weight?
@@iamalittlepepper I added a link to the craftsmanship museam. Especially the old archive posts 2000-2015 are a gold mine.
craftsmanshipmuseum.com/
BUAJ 28 - Bruska Univerzální Automatická Jemná - Grinder Universal Automatic Precise 280 mm where 280 is maximum diameter of the material.
Thanks for the explanation of the name. It is a really nice machine.
A follow up vid showing some of the prep for operation would be nice. Like truing the wheel profile - the short stroke on the taper means the resulting profile is almost entirely controlled by the wheel profile. Also, the grind kept showing an interrupted contact, why is that?
Hi Randy, Next time I need something cylindically ground, I will ask Franz if he will do it, and if we can make a video about it.
@@RotarySMP Thanks, I will keep an eye out for it.
Thank you!
Thanks for the comment.
,Cool machine, great video! Follower of Mark for years ;) Will definitely be visiting the museum. Didn’t know!
You should! I added a link on the video description page.
Family in Carlsbad. Definitely squeeze it in this year
@@rbyt2010 Nice one.
Hello Mark,
Really interesting video... I know Carlsbad quite well as my daughter lived there for 7 years and I would visit a few times a year. Sadly I was not aware of the museum. I am hoping to go there next year to visit my ex father in law so will for sure visit the museum then.
Take care.
Paul,,
Hi Paul, Did you check out the museum link on the videos blurb. I hope you get to see it. Mark
As a profesional grindef i think you should use more coolant (water).
Habe auch mitbekommen, dass ihr deutsch sprecht. Wenn Ihr verhindern wollt, dass euch das Kühlwasser wegspritzt musst du die Abdeckung oben näher an die Schleifscheibe schieben das keine Luft mehr durchgeht.
Gruss aus der Schweiz
Danke Jonas, wird ich Franz zeigen.
That'd be great for reamers...
I concur on the spare room for hoarders, my garage is filled.
Carlsbad also a surfing mecca, but then there are many down there. An Awesome state in the 1980s, esp. SoCal.
You should find The Post-apocalyptic Inventor's now famous junkyard in Germany, he's scored loads of .DE made gems.
I spent a lot of the holiday at the beach in La Jolla and Mission bay. Fantastic spots.
❤❤❤❤❤❤. Keep up the good work we love you and your channel just pe safe ❤
Thanks.
Sorry, my Englisch is very bad, please use Google translate 😉😆ich habe auf einer ähnlichen Maschine von tos einige Jahre gearbeitet. Diese war Baujahr ca 1970 und hatte weniger Funktionen aber lief einwandfrei und sehr genau 👍 außerdem hatte ich in der Firma auch eine Maschine zum innen rund schleifen von wmw ( DDR) mit Nocken und Relais Schaltungen für den schleif Zyklus . Schwer zu bedienen für jemand der Jünger ist als die Maschine 😆 deine Tos gefällt mir sehr gut.
Nicht meine (leider) aber Franz wird sich Freuen.
I'm a grinder 20 years cylindrical grinding finally a video, how about centerless I'm in form centerless as my trade ...
You should make a video about that. You need a different machine for centerless right?
@@RotarySMP yes a centerless machine
@@RotarySMP not sure if my curre.t employer would allow filming ,but maybe if I can get a hobby shop set up 🤔
@@Jg-ni2qz I hope you can. I bet you have a lot to offer the community with your skill and experience.
@@RotarySMP you know I have confidence I can I'm actually a very good grinder a.d with engineering skills, I guess I'm a little unsure were to start and I'm worried about how my current employer might take it 😅 maybe I need to talk to them ,never know Mayne they will give me work , it would be nice to find somone with a similar skill set or skills in the field with like dreams ....
What an awesome machine 😊
It really is. And in near new condition. I bet you could use something like that in your shop :)
@@RotarySMP yes I could. It could be next to my drill grinder I use all the time. Hahaha
@@nikolaiownz At the rate you are growing and expanding, you can put a grinder like this into the new bigger building you move to early next year :)
@@RotarySMP haha I can 100% tell you I ain’t moving the next 3 years. Haha I’ve used so much money the last year it’s crazy. We got to earn now lol
@@nikolaiownz You are obviously filling a need, making complex parts on time and on cost for your customers. Extrapolating your growth curve ... and looking in my crystal ball... you will eat those words :)
Nice machine! I have a very old Hercus 9A, need to learn how to use it properly!
It is. I think you quickly run out of work for it in the home shop. Franz ground every round thing he could find. I saw him gazing at a box of nails, worried about the poor surface finish :)
Great Video amazing what us humans can produce
Absolutely
Chips are nice and all but sparks do touch my heart a bit more. Grinding could use some more maker representation here on the youtube. looking forward to the lathe completion \o/
Me too :)
The machine everyone wants to buy ;-D
Also my experience, buy broken machinery, they usually had the least work to do, if they broke early in life.
Yep, that is pretty much the story of the Maho, The Schublin and now this TOS.
the size of that wheel is nuts
That 400x40mm is the thin one. According to the manual, you can fit up to Dia 400x100mm wide grinding wheels.
leave it to an airplane mechanic from austria to tell me about a cool museum in my own town that id never heard of
hope san diego/SoCal was kind to you
That is pretty funny :)
Say hi to the guys there when you drop buy.
San Diego is wonderful. Went to the beach every day. Love the place.
Rewatching this vid, likely for the 3rd time now...
Damn, that is some savage preload on that spindle... My surface grinder while stiff, can be turned by hand with little issues... In fact, whenever i start the spindle, i turn it by hand and then tap the switch to power up... It eases the life for the motor, and its in general a bad idea safety-wise, which is why i do it with all my machines... Lathes, mills, grinders... Even the angle grinder gets a wrist flick before i snap the trigger into position... But that TOS grinder is almost like a diesel engine with 20-1 compression... Why in the hell is it so strongly preloaded? The wheel mass and diameter i guess, but while 40cm is much larger than my s.g. wheels of 24cm, i dont see 16cm dia difference warranting that much of a preload difference... Especially since they are the same width wheels...
Btw, that twin ways spoken of lathe is on her way to my driveway this friday... Checked her out yesterday, literally not a single new spot o` rust... Told ya that my lubricant coverage game was supreme...
Now i just have to sell a few pneumatic collet closers and such accessories to get 3x the money that i spend on my last few machines back, per piece... The last lathe i picked up for peas has a large pneu collet closer which i can likely sell for 1.5k$ or so, which literally covers the machine, the transport and my trips to check her out and all that by like 3 times... Or, it pays off that lathe, the lathe im about to get and the deckel s1 that i picked up a year or so ago, and their respective transports... And i have quite a few of such things to dish out... And a huge hydraulic vise to fix up, scrape in and dish out for somewhere around 1k... The bloody thing is half a meter long... You dont want that brick slipping outta your hands and falling on the feet... That is a quick and dirty amputation... I got it for what was it? 30 euros? Something ridiculous like that... It would fit my large mill, but its just an instant waste of table space, as with that, nothing else could be mounted... It would have to sit parallel to the table rather than as you usually mount a machine vise... It was bought exclusively for restoration and re-sale... Even my surface grinder cant use it, which is enormous, at least when compared with most youtube shop surface grinders... Don`s from Suburban notwithstanding... Tony`s grinder is a toy compared to it... Literally a bench grinder in comparison, given that you can actually take parts off of `er and move them as a single human... Its kinda how Jeremy Clarkson described the Bentley Arnage 2007... A cathedral...
I will film that lathe when she comes... I wont however film my shop yet, as its a fucking mess and in no state to be displayed... Not with 4 large machines stacked like sardines, next to each other... The rest is more or less in permanent positions, well 2 of those 4 are also in permanent places, even 3, as the third has to budge a bit to the right where the aforementioned lathe now sits while i work on her...
Tho, i must tell you, everytime i watch this video, i curse myself for missing out on a fortuna cylindrical grinder... I was a day too late for it... She got cut apart with oxy torch by the time i got there... Tho, i did save the parts head and tailstock for a special project that is the aforementioned machine 3... But its such a sad thing thinking of the sight of that beautiful machine being cut by oxy-aceti to bits... I should have put down a deposit and gotten her... A damned sin that was... Oh the grief this world conjures... And only because someone died and the machine was tossed out, and my ass was too indecisive... Never again my friend, never again will i let a machine be obliterated if i can save her and sell her to a loving new home, where she will outlast the new caregiver... I think i still have a slagged t-bolt from the slant table off of that grinder somewhere... I guess as a masochistic reminder...
All the best and kindest regards!
Steuss
Hi Steuss. Seeing a serviceable cylinderical grinder the day after they started butchering it with a gas axe. Enough to make a strong man weep!
There was a scrappy who lived a floor below us in our old apartment. Nice guy, but for them it is all just metal. He did sell me the Deckel G1L frame for €20 which was nice. That became my first "mill". There was also a vertical gear shaping machine in the scrappies yard. A swiss one. No way I could save it. Real shame.
Over here the value of machines is roughly inversely porportional to mass. Once a lathe exceeds abut a 2m bed length, you can barely give it away. Small machines go for top dollar.
Cheers,
Mark
@@RotarySMP
Kind of the same story with my side...
The scrap boss is a great guy, just a lovely man, and his wife is aswell, they both run the place, a family business with 7 other employees... I asked him why doesnt he do something about good shit he can offer for a long time, for quite a profit at that, even if just oiled once a year and not left to rot in the rain and then get tossed into shredders for little profit to him... Same deal, he cant see it as anything other than metal, as it would be a ruinous politic for the business... I dont agree, hell, i could manage that place, make him at least 1.2x the current profit and keep the machines in a small area under cover, so fanatics like me can buy them... But i dont think that i want a job of a manager, nor do i think he would accept the proposal anyway... ``dont fix what aint broke type of deal``
Tho, that Deckel engraver body was such a great snag... I do have a fetish for plain machine bodies with just tables and such, no workheads... They offer amazing project foundations...
Regarding the machine market, same here, im in the ex-yugo zone, and its the same deal... The larger and heavier, regardless of quality, goes proportionally down with the price... Lest its a fully restored, above OEM grade machine, then its a separate arrangement, but just used machines, yeah, the bigger they are, the harder they fall...
Regarding that grinder, yeah, really a tragedy, but i just didnt ever consider taking on that type of machine at that point, and so i could not just jump on it... I should have, but fuck it, i saved some parts from her, and i saved quite a few other machines from the same fate, so i have to be happy with the soldiers that live on to march again, not fail in my duty towards them over grief... Every doctor has to accept similar losses, i guess that a machinist/millwright has to at some point as well...
But dude, that damned lathe is likely coming over tomorrow... I`ll film her as is and post - when the truck deposits her ass before my shop... She aint movin` in, as i have to both clean and brush all the dreck off of her before i even consider letting her ass in... And i have to make a support pillar from the basement to uphold the garage, as the lathe from the last comment cant go where she needs to before that is done... I cant have an unsupported floor carrying a 1 metric ton... I likely could do it, as her floorprint is large enough to spread out the load, but that is not how i roll... Structural integrity and absolute safety come above all else...
We have an older TOS surface grinder :) A Cylindrical is from Kellenberger 57U - also as an interesting Austrian machine... an EMD "sinker" . havent found any info about this machine... i gues these were made in s small family business. early 90"s probably.... Greetings aus Ungarn .. Viel spass !
I would guess that Franz knows of Kellenberger. He seems to have encyclopedic knowledge of Austria maufacturers.
@@RotarySMP Does he have a FB page ? Oder hast du eine ?
@@mrAq_pA I am not on facebook, I dont think he is either.
@@RotarySMP how to get in touch ?
@@mrAq_pA On the channel's about page there is an email address. Drop me a line and I can put you in touch with Franz.
lovely grinder ! I have also TOS cylindrical grinder but older one type 2UD. Iam about to buy the same TOS tool and cutter grinder BN 102. Would you want to make a video about it ? Cheers
Good idea. I'll talk to Franz about doing a video on that T&C at some point.
Love TOS old iron, it's always surprisingly good. Been looking for a nice FN mill but they are pretty rare over here. One day....
Good luck! I also considered getting an FN 32 before the Maho came up.
VERY NICE
It is a nice machine
Lovely machine.
It sure is!
Hi, im find this video, today i bought an Studer RM 250, Im part of the club
Have fun with that grinder Daniel.
No winder I thought I knew that surface grinder from somewhere... I think tools and machines are like gases, they expand to occupy all available space 😂😂
I wish my farm shed was 1/2 as cool as his, I don't have my fisrt motorcycle but I have my 2nd one, throwing away salvageable stuff goes against my religion, all hail the Holey Packrat.
Good points. Space...the final frontier.
I know where I can get up cylindrical grinder here in Fairbanks Alaska that monster weighs more than 10,000 pounds I think you can cylindrical the grind about 6 foot long something about half that size would be perfect
That "little" TOS is probably nearly 3 ton, but only swings 620mm between centers.
Very nice machine. If only I had the space and the budget. I'm ashamed to say I'm not a farmer so my first car and bicycle aren't in my garage :(
btw, so many "giving a Tos" joke opportunities missed :)
Good point. TOS machines are really nice, so I didn't think of them.
I have a Dremel mounted to my 7" Harbor Freight lathe so that I can get precise diameters on long shafts. If that counts as a cylindrical grinder in a home shop I'll happily make a video. :D
How did that work out for you on a long shaft? I have used my Proxxon grinder in the mini lathe with a cut off disc, and it makes really nice clean circlip grooves.
i see in an auctuon an Fritz Sauber RM250 high presition cilindrical grinder, can you grind +- 2 micron in 25mm diameter, realy nice if you do inyection nozzles. But its tiny.
There are a lot of very specialised machines out there.
Now I wonder if my comment was ever sent (can't see it here). I probably found out where to get that missing part you were talking about.
Hi Michal,
No sure what is wrong with the TH-cam comment engine. This one showed up in my YT Studio, but not in the video.
Please contact me through the email address on my channel "about" page, and I will put you in touch with Franz.
@@RotarySMP Hi RotarySMP, I was thinking about same thing. Google probably doesn't like me for some reason. I'll try to reformulate message a little and try email then ;)
TOS machines are top quality
They sure are. I nearly bought a TOS lathe a few years ago.
@@RotarySMP My friend bought a TOS cylindrical grinder a few month ago, he still has it in storage, but when we find a place for it in his workshop and clean it up it will be ready to use again, would love to play with it.
@@DolezalPetr Those grinders are pretty large and heavy for the work envelope. Real production machine.
I’ve got a TOS BN102C tool and cutter grinder, was very interested to see your friend’s. Any chance you could get a video or photos of all the accessories, I’d like to know if I’m missing anything!
That is a good idea. I’ll talk to Franz, and see if he will let me do a video on it.
@@RotarySMP Great! Look forward to it! Thanks
WOW! That was an impressive video! From the cylindrical grinder to the Craftsmanship Museum, I watched it all with eyes wide open 🙂
Great shout-out to Mark Presling's impressive Titan model engine build (I eagerly watched the whole series).
Playlist here: th-cam.com/play/PLbPzkHRZCQB8uBSFsim70U9hKNhcpp7Xk.html
Thanks Jose. Glad you enjoyed it.
@@RotarySMP I always enjoy your videos 🙂
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT I appreciate that.
@@RotarySMP 🙂
Fantastic machine. Many thanks to all those countries that manage to destroy econonically all central and eastern europe countries and their big machine industry, including TOS. Great film, thank you
Destroyed? The Czech republic is richer than it has ever been, and this company still exists, and still makes (CNC) grinders under the TOS Hostivar brand:
www.toshostivar.cz/en/
@@RotarySMP TOS had many manofacturing sites across Czech and Slovakia. In Poland there were lot of companies making lathes, milling machines, grinders, shapers for steel industry, wood industry, shipyars. Nice companies making metering tools like VIS. You probably know Bison chucks, toolholding, vises. Bison still exist but it's rather on paper:( in my city all the machine building factories were destroyed by "western" companies telling they'll invest and develop. In reality they took over just to shut everything down year or two later. The same scenario happen to many, and i mean many high quality machines making businesses. In the past they were using tanks. Nothing changed basically:/
@@RotarySMP i was in TOS factory in Brno, Slovakia couple of years ago. Empty spaces, ruined warehouses. They were selling out thier own machines they were using for production. I was interested is one of their milling machines: TOS FNK-25A. A beast compared to Bridgeport.
Cylindrical grinders are used to refurbish car steering racks. I have seen them working, but i didn't thing that those are generic machines, they looked like dedicated equipment to me
Also, typical steering rack is longer than 1m, so machines this small must come with discount thanks to incapability of working with them :>
I dont know what it cost, but would have only been a fraction what it cost new in 1991.
Yep, you were right, now I’ve got to have one. 😂
There is quite a queue forming :)
May you contact GK Kraft about the internal grinding head.
Thanks for the tip.
It can be adjusted in thou of what millimeters, thousandths of millimeters? Wow That's insanely precise compared to an American thou
Yes, adjustable to metric microns. 0.001mm.
This was really fascinating cheers! I’ve never really gotten my head round how something that gets eroded makes something so ultra precise. I mean how can it tell when enough is removed?
Yeah, I always wondered that with grinding as well.
@@RotarySMP The only thing I can think of is that grinding takes off a lot less material at a time than any blade/tool based process. I imagine that the finest precision is also limited to fairly hard materials that don't gum up the abrasive, so that you get a consistent "scrape". Also, with the two rotating masses (the wheel and the workpiece) you have statistics at work where any point errors are quickly avereged out over the whole surface, if that makes sense.
@@misterbreakit2006 Good description.
I found same machine with the internal grinding attachment here on one of the general "craigslist" type of site we have in Czech. Is Franz still interested? Not sure if they are willing to part the machine out or they would only sell it as whole. It is located in Brno so not far from Wien and there was edit 5 days ago. So it might be still available. There is no price, but I guess Franz know how much to pay for it :-) let me know and I send you the link.
Thanks Vit, I will let Franz know.
I didn't catch the brand name of that Austrian drill press, and I cannot seem to find it anywhere online. If you happen to catch this comment, I'd love to know! Thanks for the great videos
Oh! Someone had the exact same question down further in the comments, and you answered (A. Ronzil). Cheers!
Hi James,
It was made by a company called Alois Ronzal GmbH, and branded ARO. It is the model T. I did a forum thread on the restoration on a german language forum. Google translate should hopefully help...
forum.zerspanungsbude.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18010