ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- Before I sell this Boley 4LV lathe, it is time to do a 10 year machine review on it.
Here is the sales advert for it.
www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-u...
Here is my thread on this lathe:
www.madmodder.net/index.php?t...
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00:00 - Intro
00:52 - Electrics
02:15 - Spindle speed range
03:17 - Spindle lock
03:50 - Spindle bearings
04:18 - Spindle nose
05:42 - Lead screw
07:10 - Lead screw drive
09:15 - Turret bed stop
09:22 - Tailstocks
10:54 - Tool posts
12:15 - Chucks
14:12 - Collets
15:17 - Summary - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Two-speed motors are generally pretty tricky to run from a VFD. Because they are already using a switch between star and delta to achieve the two speeds, I don't _think_ that you can reduce the working voltage to suit a single phase supply (eg if you are in an area with 400V three phase and 230V single phase). Though voltage-boosting VFDs do exist, which might be an option.
A more difficult problem is that VFDs typically react badly to having their output wires disconnected and rearranged. Ir might be possible to set up the change-over switch to disable the VFD when switching the connection, but that would take some modification to the switchgear.
You would then probably need to tell the VFD that the motor has changed parameters, as the internal control loops will need to be switched for the diffferent motor inducion. back-emf etc.
That said, all this can probably be done in digital logic nowadays. For example an Arduino could be used to sense the speed switch conection, disable and re-program the VFD and then open and close a set of relays to switch the connection pattern for the new speed selected.
Good points Andy. I run the Dahlander in the Schaublin off a VFD; but only wired it up for the high speed winding, and have a 400V VFD. Should have thought that through better.
Hi andy there are electronic non variable 1 to 3 ph converters ,one manufacturer is a korean company DPS.
There still would need to be some form of pause on the converters output of course.
(edit) didn't notice that the motor was 400v , 240v would require a motor rewind or new motor
Quite common in canada , considering all of the weird voltages everyone else uses. 600v forever!😁
PS not using Linuxcnc but been following it for years ,appreciate your efforts👍
i dont think thats right... multiple speed motors have different windings with different number of poles. the star/delta stuff is to get the right voltage on the windings. you can run 230/400v motors on 230v VFDs perfectly fine. im pretty sure you can run a multiple winding motor on a VFD fine, as long as you wire up the highest speed windings and leave those permanently connected.
you are correct that VFDs REALLY dont like the motor being disconnected or switched mechanically on the output side.
@@kv4302 What I said is true for the Dahlander connection. ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlander_pole_changing_motor ). Basically a Dahlander motor is alternate poles wired as to different sets. You excite them in-phase for high speed and in antiphase (ie, just reverse the connection polarity of alternate poles) for slow speed. So you have a doubled-delta and a twin-star arrangement. If you look at the diagram on the Wiki page 1U-2U and 2U-1V are in-phase with each other in low-speed delta and in antiphase in the star arrangement. (I know that this disagrees with my earlier description, I assume that the poles themselves are wired in the opposite direction to allow for this)
I have been prompted by this to read around the web, and the advice seems to be that the sensible thing is to wire only the high-speed setup to the VFD, then use the VFD to control the speed lower if needed. This actually has exactly the same effect. You are still using all the copper (unlike the case with some of the other multiphase motor options. I have a diagram of the others fromt he web that I will put a link to in a reply to this reply, as I have had posts rejected for external links in the past)
Once you exclude the requirement to retain two-speed operation with the VFD I think that it might then be possible to wire the motor for 240V too, but you would need to split the links at 1U, 1V, 1W and reconnect to (2U,2W), (2V, 2U) and (2W, 2V)
In many case it probably makes sense to swap the motor to a VFD-rated motor of the same frame size and available voltage.
There are ways to do it, andy.
The *easy* way is to use a freewheel motor on the VFD and treat it as a simple 3 phase supply, the setup looks a bit like a rotary phase converter except that the freewheel motor can be pretty small - all it has to do is be able to absorb the switching transients that kill th eIGBTs on a VFD normally. This also has the bonus of being able to use the machine without any rewiring.
The other way to do it is a bit more tricksy, and requires support from the VFD. In chinese VFD land, the NFlixin 9600 range are the only ones I know will do this, take in a 240V single phase supply and drive 400V, with 2 separate settings for the different winding setups. You need a load of relays and interlock downstream to avoid the aforementioned switching transients (basically, you make it so the V1/V2 switching can only happen with the drive output turned off). It's tricksy, but it works and that's what I have driving the mill.
In all cases, you need to size the VFD for the high speed range of the motor.
There is also, in many cases, a way to internally rewire the motor to go from 240V to 400V, but that's getting into "heavy modifications" territory and it's not guaranteed to work. My mill's motor wouldn't do it, for example.
I've been inside a few Dahlander motors :)
The oil reservoir in the tailstock is probably for lubricating the dead centre. And would probably have originally been for white lead. My Holbrook (and I think probably all Holbrooks) has the same thing.
Hi Andy, good point. I forgot that is what daubers were for.
Good ad, I'd buy it. I'm sure potential buyers are aware of this but the comprehensive tooling that comes with the lathe really boosts its value. - Heather
Hi Heather, yeah. It drives me nuts when a machine is separated from it's accessories, as it takes years to track them all down.
The new owner is going to enjoy that machine. 👍😎👍
Hi Joel, I hope so. It is an enjoyable machine to use.
Well, I guess it is time. Floor space is precious and finite. Someone is going to get a terrific hobby machine! 👍
Hi Doric. I sure hope someone enjoys it as much as I did.
High Precision, Manual Production lathes of that size are pretty rare south of the Equator in Australia. Those that you do see are almost always incomplete and have been thrashed to death in my neck of the woods. in 30+ years repairing machine tools I never saw a Boley that I recall. I'll have to stick with my Hercus.
Good luck with your sale I hope something interesting and useful comes up to replace it.
Thanks, I hope so as well. Boleys are reasonably common over here.
Mate, you can still find old Colchesters and Weilers occasionally pop up on the usual sites like machines 4u but putting in a word with local used machinery resellers is the best way to go. They grab old items off university or tafe, estate sales and plant closures. They won't be in the top condition you'd normally see overseas.
Hi Mark thanks for the tour . You can see the watch maker lathe heritage in the tailstock bed.
Good Spotting Steve. It is very much a development of their model 3 lathe.
Good luck with the sale! Lovely machine
Fingers crossed!
Looks like a lovely lathe with a lot of accessories. Good luck with the sale
Thanks Luke.
@@RotarySMP at least who gets the lathe will know that the data plates are clean :)
Absolutely gorgeous lathe.
It really is!
Becouse is simply beautiful! Congrats my friend
Thank you very much!
@@RotarySMP 🙂 I will like to send my channel sticker to you, if possible if you want send to me an address where I cam send the sticker
If I had the funds, I would drive the 1600 km's, one way, to buy it.
Someone is going to be very happy.
I hope so Ian.
13:51 Man, this totally looks like factory made to me! Congrats! 🤯👏
Thanks. It was a fun project making it.
Lovely old bit of iron. Will make someone very happy. Little too small for the work I do but probably perfect for the average hobbyist.
Thanks for your feedback Paul.
I would buy this in a heartbeat. If only I did not need to transport it 1000+ km home ;-)
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Some how still feeling the pain of losing the change gears to some guy who's going to be welding them together. Arrrg!
You and me both.
I am genuinely sorry about Boley not making lathes anymore. I have a BDN 160 cnc lathe and I absolutely love it. I’m always looking at Boley lathes, but the ones before they where bought by Citizen.
Greetings from Hungary!
I didn't realise Citizen bought them. I had wondered what happened. Thanks.
@@RotarySMPwell yes, that’s what happened to them. If you look up BC42 or BE32 machines they are almost identical to citizen lathes
@@bencegunyho6183 Wonder how long Citizen continued with their design for?
@@RotarySMP I read it up again. They bought Boley in 1994 and i think until 2002 or 2004 they sold the BDN160 which was originally designed by boley.
I dont know a lot about Citizen lathes, but to my knowledge they are rarely fitted with a turret tool changer, just the layed-out “Gang” type toolchanger.
Interesting is that the Citizen group Boleys are exclusively fitted with turrets (except one model)
Nice to have the Maho to do these big threads. My lathe use a M64x6 nose, and I am still not ready to do one for a spare lathe backplate...
Yeah, thrad milling is a nice way of doing big internal threads.
Nice machine. I didn't know those machines have the lead screw down the center, that is interesting to learn. The Schaublin 120vm uses a similar design, it does make a dro install a bit more challenging.
The collets aren't as strange as w20 with its 1.666 pitch sawtooth :)
I think lathe makers do this sort of weird thread just to show they are lathe makers.
Very nice machine. Perhaps if I still lived in Europe... Ciao, Marco.
Thanks Marco.
Lovely machine, and you have looked after it well. I think you should keep it for the missus, and she could put it in her sewing room. I'd do you a favour and take it off your hands but I have a feeling the freight might cost me my house, and it's hard to get three phase in a tent. Good luck!
I like that comment Rick :)
I’ll take it!!! Free shipping to Canada eh?😂😂😂😂
That will allow someone to make some nice parts or learn the craft!
You can sneak it in your carry on :)
Very nice
Thanks. It is an enjoyable machine.
good lathe and good video
Thanks a lot.
Nice lathe, Mark. Hope , next owner will love and enjoy it as much as you did. BTW. you mention LinuxCNC acting as ELS - do you have any details, links, pointers ?
Thanks. I just set it up as a single Z axis cnc, reading the encoder and commanding a stepper driver through the parallel port of some old pc. It was not a permanent setup, so I just kludged it together.
Sure. Just drop it off in Naxos and I'll haul it back on the ferry and check it on the flight home. :) For my wants i need a longer bed though and probably a bigger through hole. There is a Shark lathe available locally but never heard of them and have found no info on it so some kind of rebrand. It's a 7x55 and needs work as usual for $1500.
I have never heard of a lathe branded Shark either.
If I lived in Europe I'd buy it from you in a heartbeat.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Vince.
@@RotarySMP I was in England last week. Caught a really nasty flu bug so wasn't up to invading Europe. If this video came up three weeks ago who knows,
@@vincei4252 Hope you have recovered from your flu Vince.
I wouldn't turn it down, but I'm still looking for that Hardinge HLV-H.
A mate has two HLV-H's in the UK. Lovely machines.
I reckon you can get a really decent price for your lathe. Good luck!
Thanks Willem. We'll see what the market offers.
Lovely quality machine 😀 makes my myford look like a toy 🤣
Hi Julia, that stand along probably weighs nearly 500 kg. It was the heaviest stand they offered.
@@RotarySMP I’d have no chance getting it in my workshop as everything has to go through the house 😲
Oh wow, that is not a lot of money for such a well kept lathe and all those collets and accessories! I would call right now, if I had managed to move house and job which was planned for 2023… alas, someone else will be happy with it… they better be!! :)
I have a gentleman coming to see it tomorrow. I really enjoyed this lathe.
Yes I would, but I live in the US and shipping alone would probably cost as much or more than the lathe, plus there's the differences in Electrical voltage and hertz. Hope it finds a good home though.
Yeah, the shipping must cost way more than it is worth.
i have a 5lz. think its just the bigger brother. full set of change gears but missing lot of other parts. also bed i warn badly. yours looks good.
The 5LZ is the machine I was hoping to buy back then, but was too impatient, and none came up. Mine also has some bed wear. It is a shame Boley didn't do hardened beds.
@@RotarySMP yes. thats a big problem. the rest of the machine is supper wel made and a lot of thought gone into desighn and cleaver plans about. but the soft ways are there down fall. mine is warn real bad. 0.4mm from what i could get on a quick setup first measure before i disasembled it. was thinking to scrape and make moglice bearings in the sadle... but havent had time.....
Truely wish I live in Europe so I can buy these kind of beautiful machines.
They are reasonably common over here Kurt, so we do get a nice selection.
@@RotarySMP They are expensive here in China, used but in OK condition machine cost around 7 months of average salary of normal people. Some from research organization with very little wear cost up to 30 months salary. There are very few of these small, compact but well made import machines. At the same time a lot of hobbyist want them so the price is very high.
If I had a shop to put it in and was in the same hemisphere as you I would buy
Thanks for the vote of confidence Chris.
Cleaning house means more projects. I hope the buyers line up.
Me too Craig.
That's a very interesting lathe. But, I already have two...
Hi Michel, had I known before you made one, that you like four position tool posts more than QCTP, I could have helped you out there. Sorry.
@@RotarySMP No problem. It was fun to build.
Thanks for the video. I’m not looking for a new lathe now, but am curious in what price range it will be selling for.
I have set it at €2000 obo. Guess we will see if that is an attractive price.
What a nice lathe.
But what's going in its space?
Space to move without breaking a rib running in to that steel collet closer handle.
If you can stick it in your carry on the next time you come to NZ consider it sold 🙂
Sorry I need the space to bring my Dad Austrian horseradish mustard, and my mum Mannerschnitten.
The Boley is a really nice lathe, but it’s too short for me. I’m familiar with their even smaller models.
It is, they also made nice watch makers machines
I'm interested. What would shipping be to FL, USA?
I think an old used machine like this needs to be seen in person. I would not ship it across the ocean without it being seen and tested by the buyer, as I would not want any misunderstandings.
@@RotarySMP I would think that shipping across the sea would be a big deal breaker! Sorry. I should have put a little more sarcasm in my original message. Wonderful machine and a great video showing it off!
wow
It is a nice old lathe.
Condolences!
Thanks.
I'd buy it but i'm not sure they do jiffy bags big enough to send it to the UK :D
Yeah this is more a local pick up sale.
this is the one ...
Until the next one.
That is one thing that i would never do... If i`m selling a machine or a machine part, i always ask what for, get to know the person and outright reject any offers if the person or their designs doesn`t sit well with me... Gatekeeping is the way brothers! Letting some schmuck get his undeserving hands on fine componentry is equal to taking them to the scrappers and trading them in for scrap metal money... The price may be better, but lest i know that a loving operator is getting the thing, it ain`t leaving my hands... Jesus, you made me mad with that one sentence... Phew, i`ll need to go huff some argon to knock myself down a tad after this one...
That said, the slow feed mech and the whole lathe are really a sight to behold... I want a Boley for some time now, and i missed out on one, a larger version, more square design, so a bit newer than yours, but i have no place anyway at the moment... The seller was offering that Boley and a Maho manual mill with nc control cabinet... The Maho was almost new-old stock with factory scrapings all intact and ways almost unused, covered in that old brown rusty looking grease for preservation, that machine was at least 10x better preserved than the Boley lathe, but being unused, what can you expect... I already had my Schau22 and all other machines, so i could not fit them, but i would loved picking up both of them... The seller is nowhere to be found for last 14 months, so i can`t say if they are sold or scrapped, but i lament the fact almost as much as i lament that one Deckel jig grinder/borer that got away because the seller was an asshole that i should have pressed charges against since we had a legal arrangement that should not have been breached due to ignorance and lack of organization on the dealer`s company behalf... God, you really put me in a foul mood now... First i hear of the gears being welded by some oxygen thief and then i recall the Deckel and the other two... Oh what a shitstorm of memories...
Anyways, best regards to you and best wishes to that lathe and her future caretaker...
Steuss
Hi Stuess, sorry to trigger you :)
That Boley you wanted must have been a 6LZ. Very rare, extreme precision machines made at the end of the manual age before Boley went cnc.
I have a gentleman coming to see it tomorrow.
@@RotarySMP Yup, 6LZ boley she was... God`dammit, that was a grieve mistake failing to snag her... The machine needed some work, at least from what i could see - a whole paintjob - since optics of the wear appeared minimal otherwise... Sure, she could have had more wear than the surface of the moon for all that i know, but i still lament missing out on her... That Maho mill on the other hand was an even worse deal to miss out on, figuratively speaking, due to literally factory condition... Had a rotary/indexing X axis with angle read-out of the manual sort, i mean, just two gorgeous machines in general...
Oh, no apologies needed, i don`t get triggered, i`m more of a piece of coal, if the wind blows the right way, i glow with fiery wrath...
Hope the gentleman appreciates the machines and will be able to both take her in and take care of her in a manner worthy of such a lovely little lathe!
All the best!
@@RotarySMP Another reply, speaking of Boley 6LZ, there is one in Iserlohn, held by a salesman that i have had dealings with in the past... I ain`t buying, but 4.8k euros for her... She appears to have a smear-job done on her, just to make her look spiffy from 30ft away, but i sense some deviltry in that concealment attempt... Oh how i lament not being able to pick that one up that was at hand, held locally, but a few hours there and back... Shit... Either way, that`s all i had to say... More lamentations... I could accept payments to lament at the funerals when i think about it... Just come, look at those missed out on listings and i will be bawling and drenching the place with snot in a manner that will make the close family look like psychopaths... $$$ free money baby - more machines baby! Oh yeah!
How much are you asking?I would love to have it 😄 as much as I enjoy watching your videos.
Hi Alexander, I have it listed for €2000 or best offer.
Welding a set of boley change gears for art installation is a crime against humanity, both the seller and the 'artist' should be brought to the Hague ASAP.
I felt the same way. :)
If the price is right and you deliver.😅😊
That goes for anything :)
2:13 , doubt a motor with isolationclass E will like running on a VFD
Good point. Should be F.
Can you ship to NZ? 😁
Sorry Steve, that would not be viable.
I don't know about there but in the U.S. that lathe alone would sell for double what you're asking with no accessories. That's a heck of a bargain
These are reasonable common in Austria and Germany and dont fetch a top price. Weiler are more popular.
If only I had the space for a workshop…
Hope you will at some time.
Bloody hell, shame to hear about that artist welding on those original Boley changegears.
I felt the same way.
Too much of a project for me I reckon, but for someone that loves rebuilding old iron it's a good buy for the right price.
It would be cool if someone would completely strip it and scrape it back in.
That machine will still be around in 100 years.
I sure hope so. I have really enjoyed using it.
GE 90 engine Boeing 777?
Good spotting. The pyrometer.
I'll give you twenty bucks and a case of beer for it. 😅
I bid THIRTY bucks and a case! 😉
You have to start the negotiation somewhere.
My counter offer, I'll take a Monarch 10EE and brewery :)
LOL. My uncle actually got the lathe I have today by swapping beer for it. He worked at the brewery that was less than 100 meters from the lathe factory. He knew a guy and would drop off a couple of cartons a week. It appeared as components once a month in the driveway. A bit like that old Johnny Cash song "One Piece at a Time" but it predated that. At the brewery they were allowed the Cartons but were not allowed to sell them.
@@dazaspc Brilliant story. You should make a video of that lathe, and incorporate that history. :)
@@RotarySMP It's nothing special other than my uncle put it together from new when he was trying to be Sober. 1960~70's Aussie Brewery's were filled with Alcoholics and one of the very few jobs who were allowed to drink at work. The story isn't a nice one really.
G'day. That spider didn't like you putting the Boley in high speed. I think he's(she?) gonna be more upset when you move the lathe outta there.
I really need to de-cobweb my machine shop again. :)
god i wish i had the space and money for this Q_Q
I hope you can get a shed at some time.
@@RotarySMP i could use our basement, but its humid and we live in the center of the city, so itd be difficult no matter what, maybe. Better off with a lathe of my own design like the recent 3d printable cnc mill
No, no, no! It's at this point that you fabricate some justification to expand your workshop😊
Not going to happen unfortunately.
Id buy any lathe thats cheap
That is part of my problem. I need my space back :)
oof .. that part of the story where some artist destroyed a set of change gears for ART, made me physically sick.
Yeah, imagine my disappointment.
Hearing the story about the "artist" welding the Boley change gears made me groan hard. But not as much as the bastardisation of (STEM) Science Technology Engineering and Math into (STEAM) Science Technology, Engineering, Art and Math. I guess the Art is there to screw up everything the engineers create? You know, because progress.
Great rant Vince. I shared that with Mrs Rotary, she liked it too :)
I've never seen a well designed thing look ugly and I've never seen a badly designed thing look pretty.
Discuss 😇
@@steveggca Yeah, form follows function.
One element of "The Arts" that I wish was incorporated into school curricula is Rhetoric. It's really useful, even in the context of hard science, to be able to instantly spot a false dichotomy or an argument of the beard, and know that it's not a valid argument _without_ having to work out why it's invalid there-and-then. Or, possibly in this case, a straw man.
Well, we can't discriminate against the kids who have no interest in engineering, science or maths, can we? It's disgusting that we have to put up with this "woke" b*ll*cks.
Hmmm, that's not going to get 100K views I'm afraid.
Hi Alexander, I have no expectations on that, but I wanted to do my review on this lathe before I sold it.
@@RotarySMP Just saying, the last three videos were a bit on the weak side, including the live stream/interview (which I also didn't watch). It seems, if you want another banger, you need to condense a useful tool project from start to finish into 15 to 20 minutes. Or even longer, as the vise video has shown.
Maybe look in your project list, if something qualifies, and then push that to the top?
Hey, thanks for the extended tour of this great piece of old iron! Could I contact you by email that's in your channel's About tab? I'd rather not create an account on the marketplace website
Thanks!
Sure, that works.
That's quite the combination of features, some new, some old and some odd.
Yeah, that is why I wanted to make a video on it.