This movie is really accurate and Christian Wolf has in some ways become my role model. I've seen Sheldon, but I started to dislike the show when I found out what ASD is. Got diagnosed this year. I dislike how the show fused his autism with narcisism and was mocking him for it. I also watched Good Doctor, but after 2 episodes I was so scared I couldn't stop shaking and go to sleep that night. Who would be happy to see how I would be treated if I stopped masking? Christian Wolf has found his goal, fights for what's important to him, has found where his talents are and has really high moral standarts (apart from killing). So inspiring.
I have a much less severe version of what the Christian Wolf character has, and I would agree. I am what I would describe as low empathy by nature. I tend to think of things in a very logical and rigid manner, listen to metal music to go to sleep, and have all manner of art and interesting lighting all over my house as a means of self soothing. I pace as he did in the hotel room for the same reason. I was also an elite athlete in hockey, a very combative sport. I have had to learn how to be more empathetic, moral and social through logic. Christian Wolf is not a perfect portrayal of this, but is more accurate than many would assume for a high-functioning autistic/Aspergers type person in some cases.
Also, I really appreciate how Christian demonstrates realistic gun safety in this movie. Just look at that trigger discipline. Maybe you could make a separate video on how well it portrays gun safety?
I like to think that his autism actually helps with that. I am autistic as well and I am able to pick up the proper ways of using swords, axes and bows. It takes me a long time to get used to the safety protocols (anywhere between 1 week to a few months, depending on how often I am able to do it/interest level at the time), but once I pick up the techniques and safety stuff, I'm a bona fide natural. Practice makes perfect is so important because that's how I have become so good at things
One thing I forgot to mention in the video was that there's a neat bit of irony in one scene where Christian is being socially subtle with two elderly clients. He tries to imply without saying that they can claim their house as a business and get tax breaks, and the wife of the couple fails to pick up on his unspoken implications. The irony is that autistics are often terrible at picking up on unspoken implications, and yet, Christian has mastered the art of doing so _in this specific context at least_. It's a scene that people unfamiliar with autism might totally miss. Which is true with a lot of this movie - it gets many things right in a clever way but only for those who understand autism in the first place.
As an adult, who wasn't diagnosed till my early thirties....Shooting was taught to me by my grandfather...it was our thing, ...I ahhh, you can exert a high degree of control over the variables...and it's relaxing and calming, (loud)... As for balance, mine has always sucked, though I picked up skating, at a young age...I guess cause I could do alone, and no one bothered me while I was doing it....things that others can learn to do on a board relatively quickly, (hours, days). Took me a bit longer, but I really loved it, and it came....At 41 now ,I still try to skate every day.....(get to do it maybe 5 days a week)....that's one of my...well u know.... I went off rambling....
You were right about autistic people being horrible at sports. However, fighting is not primarily a sport.. In fact, fighting would be the "sport" autistic individuals could very well excel in. There's absolutely no rules to keep in mind when fighting outside the rule sets of the ring. No rules = get job done. You failed to realize that the reason persons like me with autism suck at sports is factually due to the fact we have difficulty maintaining the thought of rules and restrictions while focusing on completing a task. For me, it's incredibly distracting to constantly mind adhering to protocol. Example, we actually struggle big time learning algebra and calculus. There has been numerous times that I got no credit on a math questions that I answered correctly for not showing acceptable "work." I think the most frustrating aspect of taking math classes is when the professor is wrong, because it takes too much energy and time to argue. Not to mention, proving them wrong often leads to resentment and harsher grading.
christian's father's insistance on extremity, endurance, and focus under unremitting pressure, and an autistic drive to repeat until perfect, may have contributed to Christian's balance or ability to remain outwardly calm (also after his father died he had to step up to that role for himself)? Justine (alison wright)'s character was also pivotal - she was the 'one person' he trusted to organise and troubleshoot in real time for him :)
Thank you for this thoughtful and very helpful video. As an allistic who was mostly ignorant about autism before seeing this movie, I really appreciate the considered opinions of those on the autism spectrum about the movie. I loved this movie and hope it gets a sequel, and that more and different kinds of films are made that include well-written and well-performed autistic characters.
@@daytimesky Before I saw the movie I only knew what I had seen of the autistic people in my life. The oldest child (10) of some close friends is autistic and I've known him his whole life. He has communication differences, sensory sensitivities, conspicuously stims, and is one of the sweetest boys and the most intense child nerds I know (I say that as a nerd with mostly nerd friends: loving knowledge, and enthusiastic about acquiring it and sharing it) Him and I bonded over our shared obsessive knowledge of dinosaurs, mythology, astronomy, etc. His mother was recently identified as on the spectrum. A few other close friends I've known my whole life have been diagnosed as adults. So I didn't know generalizations or any formal breakdowns of common behaviors, traits, experiences, etc, only the specific behaviors and experiences of my friends and my observations of my friend's child. And they were each very singular, not similar. Just after seeing the movie my first thought was that I didn't know enough. There were so many questions I had and I wasn't sure what parts of his portrayal were fantastical for the sake of the film and what parts were realistic. I wanted to know if the film was made by people with any personal exposure to autism or who didn't know and didn't care (as happens all too often with representation in film). How Christian's behavior was only a little lined up with some of what I saw in my autistic friends, and not lined up in other ways. But it was a kick in the pants to go and look up actual descriptions of autism, to get exposed to more in depth descriptions many experiences, and most of all to look up reviews of the film by people on the spectrum, as many as I could find (not just my friends), as that would give me a much better way of judging the film.
@@daytimesky I have high functioning autism. I questioned his need for flashing lights as that feels like stabbing needles in my eyes. I also noticed his use of Sharpies near his face, a smell I have to keep far from my nose or risk migraine. Otherwise, this movie was very accurate in many ways. I've learned to overcome my aversion to eye contact, but it takes effort. I sense people's true intentions; their falseness or authenticity is obvious to me. I masked all my life until two years ago when I finally dropped it; the need for the mask fell away. I love weapons, especially knives, but guns too. I have a strong need to never be a victim. I have no interest in hurting people at all, as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones. If that happened, I could hurt them severely without remorse. However, I very strongly believe in right and wrong. I love deeply and am unusually loyal.
I have a comment about when you were talking about Christian's shooting skills: I have autism and ADHD. The first time I fired a gun, my Uncle handed me a rifle that fired .22 LR cartridges and I did pretty well. I normally only have some issues with balance, but I was sitting down. I do, however have good hand-eye coordination, even though I am near sighted in my right eye, the eye I had to ADS with. By the third time me and my family went shooting together, I had received my glasses, which helped make my aim better. I also fired a 9-shot .22LR revolver, a Glock-17L, a .308 Mauser M77, and a 12-gauge shotgun during the third time my family went shooting, which did require ear protection. By the way, you don't need to wear ear protection for a rifle firing a .22LR cartridge. I am actually a pretty good shot.
I loved you talking bout how he would expose himself to those stimulus. I did the same thing to over come my autism sensory problems. Going to dance clubs really helpful, loud noise flashing lights. I would wear a touque covering my ears,and wear earplugs at the beginning.
@@daytimesky My large family danced in the living room for fun since I was tiny. So as a teenager and adult when I was nervous, dancing would calm me. I would turn off the knowledge that eyes were watching me, it didn't affect me, as the dancing calmed me. Flashing lights are intolerable though, like little deep stabs in my eyes.
9:01 i think the exposure to flashing light and loud music as well as the uncomfortable rolling pin pressure is meant to be the equivalent of desensitizing. By exposing himself to a sensory overload like this on a daily basis the intent is to teach his brain that the sensory elements he might find overwhelming in every day life aren't as bad as they seem, at least not when compared to the episode of sensory overload. The idea works on the same concept as strength and endurance training, use a muscle long enough and make it work hard enough, and it will grow stronger and last longer before tiring. The idea is essentially mental and sensory endurance training, by making his brain work harder for a brief time to process and tolerate what his senses are feeding into it, he increases his tolerance for it, and becomes more able to endure every day sensory input without tiring mentally. However the part that this method doesn't take into account, in my opinion as a diagnosed HF autistic, is that the strain the mind is subjected to is very different from the strain a muscle is subjected to, and when they reach their limit, they react differently. An overworked muscle may tear or sprain, but an overworked mind, much like a computer that is overheating simply begins to shut down in order to prevent damaging itself. The problem here is basically the equivalent of comparing a wrench to a computer, they simply don't work the same way, and they also do not behave the same way when they are overworked, thus in my opinion, this approach just doesn't work, and as well as his dad may have meant in trying to teach his son better endurance for the world around him, he went about it entirely the wrong way and probably did far more damage than good to his son.
Exactly I agree. The idea that an autistic person can learn to tolerate overload by having it forced on them is just wrong for the reason you point out. And there are parents who think that way, only to end up damaging their child instead of helping.
I learned after the movie that the rolling pin pressure could be part of his physical conditioning, since it is part of some martial arts practices: hardening forearms and shins so they can deflect strikes in combat without breaking. It would be painful but a familiar and possibly grounding pain, so maybe he does it during his sessions of flashing lights and loud music to help him get through it, like pressing your fingernails into your skin to distract from the pain of a cut or a burn.
I think they tried to finesse Christian's prison time by having him sent to a military prison - so a much more regimented setting than your usual prison. The inmates there would be expected to conform to military conduct, something that would probably have been fine for Christian. I haven't seen anything about autistics in the US military but have read about them in the British military where many have had a coming out, necessary because that military started to take steps to oust autistic people from its ranks on the basis of disability. When those moves started many (including high ranking and decorated officers came out as autistic). Also, softening Christian's time in prison was his friendship with his cellmate. This wasn't a casual thing. It seems that they were together all of the time and the prison did not seem to be run as one in which inmates were freely mixing. Plus, we are to believe, as in the more recent Reacher, that Christian could handle himself if provoked to fight. In my experience, sometimes when an autistic person is imposing and quiet (Christian does not strike me as the kind of person who would talk for talking's sake) that can be the impression they give anyway, which can ward off problems.
When he was arrested, he was wearing a military uniform, so they figured he was in the military. He was transferred to normal prison for criminal financial analysis.
Thank you for this. I was misdiagnosed with ADHD at the age of 17 & they gave me meth pills (concerta) to help my grades, but I ended up getting mood swings. Anyway, I have never been properly diagnosed. I have trouble taking social cues, I can't tell when people are lying to me (I have been robbed by people I thought were my friends), I dont like when people touch me, I shut-down when presented with conflict, my trouble with eye contact leads people to think I'm not listening, I love to create things (art, music, gadgets, bikes, etc), & I can't hold a job where I am under constant pressure of the clock and constantly being watched by a superior (I get too nervous & I screw everything up, but I'm fine on my own) The list goes on, but idk exactly what this means... people my whole life have told me I'm just lazy & stupid
3:46 I can understand that when I was in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and I managed to do a perfect throw on the first try watching someone but couldn't recreate it afterwards.
Ahh when you say that he was learning to tolerate torture... that's so spot on! I was also told in therapy to do this, but it is very very difficult, so the only I can do is like going to the movies or walking downtown, going to the supermarket, but still I always choose times where there are few people in... if the place is too crowded and loud I shut down. I believe the hardest is not telling some people about your autism and then they keep pushing to do things you're uncomfortable with. My sister always wants us to go to a certain pizza place, last time I simply hat to leave and go to the bathroom, I was there crying for 15~20 minutes, but they think it is overreacting. And always want to make us go to that same place because it's where they like. Also not understanding not being able to staying in loud places. Like always trying to take you to a party and getting mad when you say you won't. This "torture" example really is something I could use to try and explain. Some places like this feels just like torture.
I really hope that things like this help you explain your autism. There are also a growing number of novels that portray it accurately, like the kid novel _Can You See Me._
Mmmm rub those tears all over The sound of your piss hitting the urinal, it sounds feminine The sound of your piss hitting your Ren, All It sounds like a dominant girl
I'm a parent of an autistic son, and perhaps I may have had an undiagnosed case when I was younger. I was trained in several martial arts (Including Pentjak-Silat) for over 20 years and have taught students at Sunday school and privately afterwards. I started firearms 5 years ago under a retired SWAT officer-turned-pastor, and have become a far better shooter than others. People often notice that the way I move and shoot is different ask what the Range Safety Officer what I do for a living, since they see me every weekend on the range for several hours at a time. He jokingly refers to me as "The Accountant" to get a rise out of people, even though in reality I'm a financial advisor. I have had awkward situations being mistaken as a military veteran, and even been approached recently by private military contractors trying to recruit me to go to Ukraine to fight human trafficking. Whenever I show up at the shooting range in my suit instead of tactical gear to drop my guns off for cleaning or repairs, the employees cannot recognize me - unsure if it's me or not. They view the "gun guy"/martial artist as the real me, whereas the wealth manager side as just a front to finance this lifestyle. I haven't been bullied when younger, but did have a hard time fitting into private school when I was transferred there. As a result, my skills and interests were different, to say the least. My parents never exposed me to athletics at an early age, so I was already behind the learning curve. The only physical activity that they encouraged was the martial arts for self-defense against racists. Like the protagonist, I continued on with my quest as an adult because I enjoyed it. I hoped to one day pass my knowledge onto my own son, just like I did for my students - and at an early age. However, my wife would not let me train my autistic son in knife fighting and other commando tactics during elementary school, because she was worried that he might hurt somebody accidentally horsing around - not knowing his strength or understand the philosophy behind the fighting, so most of my knowledge and training are kept to myself. The movie struck a chord with me, since I had not seen it when it came out years ago. I used to be shy and had problems with eye contact, but finding a job as a broker at a Fortune 500 company thrust me into learning people skills. Being interested in seeing how the world of business, economics, and financial markets link together, I was highly competent and diligent in the job. What I had lacked in experience was compensated by always finding the right answer for clients from other departments. After a day full of interacting with clients, I often retreated to isolation to continue studying and training. Being task-oriented has always felt better than worrying about maintaining a lot of friendships. While I get along with everybody reasonably well, my preference is still to do things alone looking for intersectionality, self-preservation, as well as self-perfection. I even enjoyed art history too. I can work a room and be a social butterfly, but that is a learned behavior. Thanks to all for making a movie that more closely resembles who I am, even though I have never been diagnosed officially with autism. Maybe it was a mild form that I snapped out of...
One does not "snap out of" autism. Symptoms such as sensory sensitivity do sometimes decrease with age, which has happened to me. But one does not "leave" autism behind. But that was a very interesting story. Thanks for sharing it!
@@daytimesky Yes, perhaps that is a better way to state it. I don't want to sound like a corny parent, but I hope that some day one of the jobs of the future that we don't know about yet will enable my son to lead a fulfilling life. Perhaps something in pattern recognition, big data, robotics, or something utilizing AI could be a force multiplier... He is a "master builder" with his LEGOS while watching his cartoons on TH-cam, and lately he has taken to mastering the Rubik's cube - with my wife helping him. (For the record, my best time was 86 seconds, but I forgot how to do that now!) He has had quite a few female friends in elementary school who adored him, but it's sad to see these bonds weaken over time, as they grow up at a faster pace than him. He didn't know how good he had it when he was younger, but so far, he doesn't seem to mind not going to the dances or other social events. Our local public school has been very effective with its anti-bullying campaigns, so far he has been spared experiencing any protracted problems. The school has also been very attentive to the special needs programs, so I think he is doing the best he can in a positive environment. This was not the case for me in an all-boy's private school up until senior school, so I'm glad he is better off than I was at his age.
@@michaellynn7745 Friends in childhood, and bonds that weaken over time. That seems to be a common autism life experience. Doesn't mind not going to the dances and stuff, yup. I know that feel as well. I can't predict what his future will be, but I'm glad that things have actually changed for the better compared to when I was a kid. Let's hope they keep changing more.
The reason many autistic people have problems learning sports is because we are always thinking ( actively evaluating our perceptions ). I had the same issue ( and still do a bit ) until I practiced zazen. Then I was able to quiet my mind and allow flow to happen.
I always thought, at least with me the eye thing was a trust thing. The only times I was ever able to look directly at someone was if I knew and trusted them. Whereas, anyone else I make less eye contact with.
As a diagnosed Aspie myself, there are a few behaviours described here that I can relate to. I tend to be easily stressed by sensory overload myself, albeit to a lesser extent than what a lot of other autistics experience, although in my case I'm far more bothered by crowded spaces than lights and noise (although the latter two do still bother me). Social ques are also a problem for me, particularly when being given instructions, since I often need to be told VERY specifically what the other person wants.
I really like your review and I agree, I love the subtle hints in the move like the joke about the dogs playing poker, >.< (I only just watched this movie, I really enjoyed it, (especially the reunion =D) but I'm not keen on the reviews of this by people who don't know anything about the autism spectrum, so I really appreciate this one, thanks
I agree. This movie did not really _teach_ autism to people the way shows like Atypical do. I've seen some reviews by people who just plain don't have a clue. It would be nice if they at least realized they didn't have a clue, and did a little bit of research before giving their review.
@@daytimesky Yup, (people please do your research!) I think maybe it could have done with a little disclaimer at the start of the credits, just saying how big the spectrum is and that most aspies have different experiences with it and it can show differently, (especially in girls) but hey ho, I thought it was a pretty decent fictional movie and it's interesting to think how much our upbringing can effect us. It feels set up for another movie too..
The only thing is have to say is the prison is not as surprising as you might think. He's not in a regular prison with a regular gen pop. He's in a Federal White Collar prison. Which unfortunately in the US makes a significant difference. The type of prison he was at is known as "Club Fed". Implying that it is a resort to normal prisons in the country. And is also implied in the movie by the fact his roommate that thought him did wanted to stay in prison vs being let out.
When I'm outside, and in public, I get overstimulated, and will chew my cheeks, or run a ribbon under my fingernails. Also if I'm in a safe environment, but there's a lot of people I'll get overstimulated, especially if they're talking. I'm legally blind because I'm albino, so I can't turn it off.
I haven't done much research, but apparently it's a genuine therapy to help certain people with autism to habituate to over-stimuli. It might sound backwards or cruel, but from what I've heard it's a legit form of therapy/training.
@@Profile__1 Nope, it's torturous for autistic people. There are all sorts of things that have been done to autistic children in the interest of providing therapy that once those children become adults can have agency they reveal to have been torturous for them. That kind of "therapy" is focused on external behaviors and completely ignores what's going on inside and the whys. Negates the autistic person's personhood and consent. Each time we see Christian have a meltdown as a child, for example, there is a reason. Some kinds of therapy would just be focused on making him stop or to conceal his reactions without dealing with the why. In the case of sensory issues, the lights and the noises are painful. For autistic people, the pain doesn't go away with exposure. You may learn to tolerate even high levels of pain but it doesn't make it less painful. His Dad just habituated him to pain. He could have had a good life without that. Lots of autistic people have the same sensory issues Christian has and have a job and family, etc.
My Mom pulled that garbage on me, and I'm albino as well. Like, even as a toddler, no matter how hard I worked on cleaning my room, if it wasn't 100% to her specifications, she would act like didn't do anything at all. And so I learned to care about things differently from her. And I forget things all the time, and she knows it, but acts like I'm using my disabilities as a crutch, even though I've rarely ever used my blindness as a crutch . She has called me lazy, and more recently, vile, a roommate from hell, etc, and she knows I'm a hard worker at work. That's why I found it interesting that Christian was donating to the group in the beginning. He didn't like what his father did.
@@RKingisAnd neither did his brother. Recall that when they reunite, Braxton tells Christian that if going to the funeral of their mother, the woman who abandoned them, was that important to him, Christian should have come to Braxton and not their father.
Im not autistic. My children are. I like that the movie doesn't include the why of his behaviour. I think the film is smarter than that. Myself and other parents/family of autistic people are becoming more and more aware of the realities and can fill in those gaps. How did he survive in prison? He was protected and he had the benefit of routine.
I believe the scenes with the strobe lights are a nod to Ben playing Daredevil. If you remember that film (or even saw it) you'll recall that Matt Murdock goes in the opposite direction by sleeping in a sensory deprivation tank.
Bright flashing light debilitates my eyes with sharp pains and then gives me bad migraines. No amount of "exposure" will make those lights tolerable. Same with certain smells that cause migraines.
perhaps the loud sounds and strobe lights gave him an adrenaline rush from the sensory inputs. It may have been similar to how some people will subject themselves to physical pain for the same reason. I've been manic before and i purposefully made a radio go static and turn the volume up, something that would have otherwise irritated the f*ck out of me. and yes, im on the spectrum myself
You forgot to mention the scene when Christian shows Dana what he figured out and that it proves that her suspicions were correct. They're both equally excited and he even shows no annoyance when she bumps him on the shoulder. I know the movie later tries to hint at a romance (which I'm glad it doesn’t follow through on because I'm usually not a fan of forced romance in action movies), but I think their shared excitement, and him temporarily letting his guard down, is because they both share the same interest which, in this case, is mathematics. I have no idea how accurate that scene is to real life, though.
How Christian Survived Prison. I'm pretty sure if they do sequel the movie they may explain why, but here goes. While Christian is well trained in combat, he is also been I assume trained by his father to exercise his brain as much as his muscles and life. So needless to say he taught him everything. Math, Science, Strategy. Things like that. Since his father was in the military he probably was a P.O.W. so odds are he taught his boys how to survive being imprisoned. Not just how to defend yourself, but make yourself useful enough to stay alive and make coin. Christian probably talked to some people in the prison and gave them some financial advice. They probably referred him to the mobster that taught him laundering. As a result, he was probably under his protection in prison.
It's a kick in the teeth to people like myself to be honest. The children in the opening scene made me cringe. We aren't savants due to having sensory overload..
I believe his portrayal is quite accurate although I don’t know of any autistic person trained to deal with their reaction to over stimulation the way he portrayed. I know of other techniques to help them but not what I saw in the movie.
Regarding the lights and the music. Yes they are a problem for us. I can attest to that. Even if it's music I love I can only enjoy it at a certain volume. I have learned to tolerate it among social gatherings, but other than that it feels like I'm being drilled in the ears. Anyway, while tough love may have been the motivation I think this was also part of Chris' training. In the form of physical and mental conditioning. Since Chris was being trained in firearms he had to get used to how loud the gun is and how bright and fast the light from the gunpowder is. Later on when he had his breakdown over not being able to finish his recent job, he deliberately put himself back in that room, not to condition himself, but to hurt himself. Because he felt that bad about the job. However since he was used to doing that to himself for years he resorted to smacking himself with the stick.
This movie is really accurate and Christian Wolf has in some ways become my role model.
I've seen Sheldon, but I started to dislike the show when I found out what ASD is. Got diagnosed this year. I dislike how the show fused his autism with narcisism and was mocking him for it. I also watched Good Doctor, but after 2 episodes I was so scared I couldn't stop shaking and go to sleep that night. Who would be happy to see how I would be treated if I stopped masking?
Christian Wolf has found his goal, fights for what's important to him, has found where his talents are and has really high moral standarts (apart from killing). So inspiring.
I have a much less severe version of what the Christian Wolf character has, and I would agree. I am what I would describe as low empathy by nature. I tend to think of things in a very logical and rigid manner, listen to metal music to go to sleep, and have all manner of art and interesting lighting all over my house as a means of self soothing. I pace as he did in the hotel room for the same reason. I was also an elite athlete in hockey, a very combative sport. I have had to learn how to be more empathetic, moral and social through logic. Christian Wolf is not a perfect portrayal of this, but is more accurate than many would assume for a high-functioning autistic/Aspergers type person in some cases.
Also, I really appreciate how Christian demonstrates realistic gun safety in this movie. Just look at that trigger discipline. Maybe you could make a separate video on how well it portrays gun safety?
That sounds pretty good
I like to think that his autism actually helps with that. I am autistic as well and I am able to pick up the proper ways of using swords, axes and bows. It takes me a long time to get used to the safety protocols (anywhere between 1 week to a few months, depending on how often I am able to do it/interest level at the time), but once I pick up the techniques and safety stuff, I'm a bona fide natural. Practice makes perfect is so important because that's how I have become so good at things
One thing I forgot to mention in the video was that there's a neat bit of irony in one scene where Christian is being socially subtle with two elderly clients. He tries to imply without saying that they can claim their house as a business and get tax breaks, and the wife of the couple fails to pick up on his unspoken implications.
The irony is that autistics are often terrible at picking up on unspoken implications, and yet, Christian has mastered the art of doing so _in this specific context at least_.
It's a scene that people unfamiliar with autism might totally miss. Which is true with a lot of this movie - it gets many things right in a clever way but only for those who understand autism in the first place.
He has Aspergers so obviously he won't have all of the symptoms
I have asperger’s/autism so I thank u for ur amazing explanation
As an adult, who wasn't diagnosed till my early thirties....Shooting was taught to me by my grandfather...it was our thing, ...I ahhh, you can exert a high degree of control over the variables...and it's relaxing and calming, (loud)...
As for balance, mine has always sucked, though I picked up skating, at a young age...I guess cause I could do alone, and no one bothered me while I was doing it....things that others can learn to do on a board relatively quickly, (hours, days).
Took me a bit longer, but I really loved it, and it came....At 41 now ,I still try to skate every day.....(get to do it maybe 5 days a week)....that's one of my...well u know....
I went off rambling....
I appreciated the ramble.
You were right about autistic people being horrible at sports. However, fighting is not primarily a sport.. In fact, fighting would be the "sport" autistic individuals could very well excel in. There's absolutely no rules to keep in mind when fighting outside the rule sets of the ring. No rules = get job done. You failed to realize that the reason persons like me with autism suck at sports is factually due to the fact we have difficulty maintaining the thought of rules and restrictions while focusing on completing a task. For me, it's incredibly distracting to constantly mind adhering to protocol. Example, we actually struggle big time learning algebra and calculus. There has been numerous times that I got no credit on a math questions that I answered correctly for not showing acceptable "work." I think the most frustrating aspect of taking math classes is when the professor is wrong, because it takes too much energy and time to argue. Not to mention, proving them wrong often leads to resentment and harsher grading.
I think I have difficulty with sports because I don't really see a purpose in it, and I'm awkward with my movements
christian's father's insistance on extremity, endurance, and focus under unremitting pressure, and an autistic drive to repeat until perfect, may have contributed to Christian's balance or ability to remain outwardly calm (also after his father died he had to step up to that role for himself)? Justine (alison wright)'s character was also pivotal - she was the 'one person' he trusted to organise and troubleshoot in real time for him :)
Thank you for this thoughtful and very helpful video. As an allistic who was mostly ignorant about autism before seeing this movie, I really appreciate the considered opinions of those on the autism spectrum about the movie. I loved this movie and hope it gets a sequel, and that more and different kinds of films are made that include well-written and well-performed autistic characters.
Thank you! What did you know about autism before seeing this movie, and what did you think about it just after seeing it?
Apparently a sequel is in the works.
@@daytimesky Before I saw the movie I only knew what I had seen of the autistic people in my life. The oldest child (10) of some close friends is autistic and I've known him his whole life. He has communication differences, sensory sensitivities, conspicuously stims, and is one of the sweetest boys and the most intense child nerds I know (I say that as a nerd with mostly nerd friends: loving knowledge, and enthusiastic about acquiring it and sharing it) Him and I bonded over our shared obsessive knowledge of dinosaurs, mythology, astronomy, etc. His mother was recently identified as on the spectrum. A few other close friends I've known my whole life have been diagnosed as adults. So I didn't know generalizations or any formal breakdowns of common behaviors, traits, experiences, etc, only the specific behaviors and experiences of my friends and my observations of my friend's child. And they were each very singular, not similar.
Just after seeing the movie my first thought was that I didn't know enough. There were so many questions I had and I wasn't sure what parts of his portrayal were fantastical for the sake of the film and what parts were realistic. I wanted to know if the film was made by people with any personal exposure to autism or who didn't know and didn't care (as happens all too often with representation in film). How Christian's behavior was only a little lined up with some of what I saw in my autistic friends, and not lined up in other ways. But it was a kick in the pants to go and look up actual descriptions of autism, to get exposed to more in depth descriptions many experiences, and most of all to look up reviews of the film by people on the spectrum, as many as I could find (not just my friends), as that would give me a much better way of judging the film.
@@maluithil Now that you have looked up all that information, what do you think about the film's portrayal of autism?
@@daytimesky I have high functioning autism. I questioned his need for flashing lights as that feels like stabbing needles in my eyes. I also noticed his use of Sharpies near his face, a smell I have to keep far from my nose or risk migraine.
Otherwise, this movie was very accurate in many ways.
I've learned to overcome my aversion to eye contact, but it takes effort. I sense people's true intentions; their falseness or authenticity is obvious to me. I masked all my life until two years ago when I finally dropped it; the need for the mask fell away.
I love weapons, especially knives, but guns too. I have a strong need to never be a victim.
I have no interest in hurting people at all, as long as they don't harm me or my loved ones. If that happened, I could hurt them severely without remorse. However, I very strongly believe in right and wrong. I love deeply and am unusually loyal.
I have a comment about when you were talking about Christian's shooting skills: I have autism and ADHD. The first time I fired a gun, my Uncle handed me a rifle that fired .22 LR cartridges and I did pretty well. I normally only have some issues with balance, but I was sitting down. I do, however have good hand-eye coordination, even though I am near sighted in my right eye, the eye I had to ADS with. By the third time me and my family went shooting together, I had received my glasses, which helped make my aim better. I also fired a 9-shot .22LR revolver, a Glock-17L, a .308 Mauser M77, and a 12-gauge shotgun during the third time my family went shooting, which did require ear protection. By the way, you don't need to wear ear protection for a rifle firing a .22LR cartridge. I am actually a pretty good shot.
I loved you talking bout how he would expose himself to those stimulus. I did the same thing to over come my autism sensory problems. Going to dance clubs really helpful, loud noise flashing lights. I would wear a touque covering my ears,and wear earplugs at the beginning.
That worked for you? For some autistic people, that's simply exposing themselves to sensory hell. In glad it worked for you though.
@@daytimesky yeah I understand, I tried it with some of my other autistic friends. Only worked for one. But it was hard at first for me too.
@@daytimesky My large family danced in the living room for fun since I was tiny. So as a teenager and adult when I was nervous, dancing would calm me. I would turn off the knowledge that eyes were watching me, it didn't affect me, as the dancing calmed me. Flashing lights are intolerable though, like little deep stabs in my eyes.
9:01 i think the exposure to flashing light and loud music as well as the uncomfortable rolling pin pressure is meant to be the equivalent of desensitizing. By exposing himself to a sensory overload like this on a daily basis the intent is to teach his brain that the sensory elements he might find overwhelming in every day life aren't as bad as they seem, at least not when compared to the episode of sensory overload. The idea works on the same concept as strength and endurance training, use a muscle long enough and make it work hard enough, and it will grow stronger and last longer before tiring. The idea is essentially mental and sensory endurance training, by making his brain work harder for a brief time to process and tolerate what his senses are feeding into it, he increases his tolerance for it, and becomes more able to endure every day sensory input without tiring mentally.
However the part that this method doesn't take into account, in my opinion as a diagnosed HF autistic, is that the strain the mind is subjected to is very different from the strain a muscle is subjected to, and when they reach their limit, they react differently. An overworked muscle may tear or sprain, but an overworked mind, much like a computer that is overheating simply begins to shut down in order to prevent damaging itself. The problem here is basically the equivalent of comparing a wrench to a computer, they simply don't work the same way, and they also do not behave the same way when they are overworked, thus in my opinion, this approach just doesn't work, and as well as his dad may have meant in trying to teach his son better endurance for the world around him, he went about it entirely the wrong way and probably did far more damage than good to his son.
Exactly I agree. The idea that an autistic person can learn to tolerate overload by having it forced on them is just wrong for the reason you point out. And there are parents who think that way, only to end up damaging their child instead of helping.
I learned after the movie that the rolling pin pressure could be part of his physical conditioning, since it is part of some martial arts practices: hardening forearms and shins so they can deflect strikes in combat without breaking. It would be painful but a familiar and possibly grounding pain, so maybe he does it during his sessions of flashing lights and loud music to help him get through it, like pressing your fingernails into your skin to distract from the pain of a cut or a burn.
I think they tried to finesse Christian's prison time by having him sent to a military prison - so a much more regimented setting than your usual prison. The inmates there would be expected to conform to military conduct, something that would probably have been fine for Christian. I haven't seen anything about autistics in the US military but have read about them in the British military where many have had a coming out, necessary because that military started to take steps to oust autistic people from its ranks on the basis of disability. When those moves started many (including high ranking and decorated officers came out as autistic). Also, softening Christian's time in prison was his friendship with his cellmate. This wasn't a casual thing. It seems that they were together all of the time and the prison did not seem to be run as one in which inmates were freely mixing. Plus, we are to believe, as in the more recent Reacher, that Christian could handle himself if provoked to fight. In my experience, sometimes when an autistic person is imposing and quiet (Christian does not strike me as the kind of person who would talk for talking's sake) that can be the impression they give anyway, which can ward off problems.
When he was arrested, he was wearing a military uniform, so they figured he was in the military. He was transferred to normal prison for criminal financial analysis.
Thank you for this.
I was misdiagnosed with ADHD at the age of 17 & they gave me meth pills (concerta) to help my grades, but I ended up getting mood swings.
Anyway, I have never been properly diagnosed. I have trouble taking social cues, I can't tell when people are lying to me (I have been robbed by people I thought were my friends), I dont like when people touch me, I shut-down when presented with conflict, my trouble with eye contact leads people to think I'm not listening, I love to create things (art, music, gadgets, bikes, etc), & I can't hold a job where I am under constant pressure of the clock and constantly being watched by a superior (I get too nervous & I screw everything up, but I'm fine on my own)
The list goes on, but idk exactly what this means... people my whole life have told me I'm just lazy & stupid
3:46 I can understand that when I was in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and I managed to do a perfect throw on the first try watching someone but couldn't recreate it afterwards.
Ahh when you say that he was learning to tolerate torture... that's so spot on! I was also told in therapy to do this, but it is very very difficult, so the only I can do is like going to the movies or walking downtown, going to the supermarket, but still I always choose times where there are few people in... if the place is too crowded and loud I shut down. I believe the hardest is not telling some people about your autism and then they keep pushing to do things you're uncomfortable with. My sister always wants us to go to a certain pizza place, last time I simply hat to leave and go to the bathroom, I was there crying for 15~20 minutes, but they think it is overreacting. And always want to make us go to that same place because it's where they like. Also not understanding not being able to staying in loud places. Like always trying to take you to a party and getting mad when you say you won't. This "torture" example really is something I could use to try and explain. Some places like this feels just like torture.
I really hope that things like this help you explain your autism. There are also a growing number of novels that portray it accurately, like the kid novel _Can You See Me._
Mmmm rub those tears all over
The sound of your piss hitting the urinal, it sounds feminine
The sound of your piss hitting your Ren, All
It sounds like a dominant girl
I'm a parent of an autistic son, and perhaps I may have had an undiagnosed case when I was younger. I was trained in several martial arts (Including Pentjak-Silat) for over 20 years and have taught students at Sunday school and privately afterwards. I started firearms 5 years ago under a retired SWAT officer-turned-pastor, and have become a far better shooter than others. People often notice that the way I move and shoot is different ask what the Range Safety Officer what I do for a living, since they see me every weekend on the range for several hours at a time. He jokingly refers to me as "The Accountant" to get a rise out of people, even though in reality I'm a financial advisor. I have had awkward situations being mistaken as a military veteran, and even been approached recently by private military contractors trying to recruit me to go to Ukraine to fight human trafficking. Whenever I show up at the shooting range in my suit instead of tactical gear to drop my guns off for cleaning or repairs, the employees cannot recognize me - unsure if it's me or not. They view the "gun guy"/martial artist as the real me, whereas the wealth manager side as just a front to finance this lifestyle.
I haven't been bullied when younger, but did have a hard time fitting into private school when I was transferred there. As a result, my skills and interests were different, to say the least. My parents never exposed me to athletics at an early age, so I was already behind the learning curve. The only physical activity that they encouraged was the martial arts for self-defense against racists. Like the protagonist, I continued on with my quest as an adult because I enjoyed it. I hoped to one day pass my knowledge onto my own son, just like I did for my students - and at an early age. However, my wife would not let me train my autistic son in knife fighting and other commando tactics during elementary school, because she was worried that he might hurt somebody accidentally horsing around - not knowing his strength or understand the philosophy behind the fighting, so most of my knowledge and training are kept to myself.
The movie struck a chord with me, since I had not seen it when it came out years ago. I used to be shy and had problems with eye contact, but finding a job as a broker at a Fortune 500 company thrust me into learning people skills. Being interested in seeing how the world of business, economics, and financial markets link together, I was highly competent and diligent in the job. What I had lacked in experience was compensated by always finding the right answer for clients from other departments. After a day full of interacting with clients, I often retreated to isolation to continue studying and training. Being task-oriented has always felt better than worrying about maintaining a lot of friendships. While I get along with everybody reasonably well, my preference is still to do things alone looking for intersectionality, self-preservation, as well as self-perfection. I even enjoyed art history too. I can work a room and be a social butterfly, but that is a learned behavior.
Thanks to all for making a movie that more closely resembles who I am, even though I have never been diagnosed officially with autism. Maybe it was a mild form that I snapped out of...
One does not "snap out of" autism. Symptoms such as sensory sensitivity do sometimes decrease with age, which has happened to me. But one does not "leave" autism behind.
But that was a very interesting story. Thanks for sharing it!
@@daytimesky Yes, perhaps that is a better way to state it. I don't want to sound like a corny parent, but I hope that some day one of the jobs of the future that we don't know about yet will enable my son to lead a fulfilling life. Perhaps something in pattern recognition, big data, robotics, or something utilizing AI could be a force multiplier...
He is a "master builder" with his LEGOS while watching his cartoons on TH-cam, and lately he has taken to mastering the Rubik's cube - with my wife helping him. (For the record, my best time was 86 seconds, but I forgot how to do that now!)
He has had quite a few female friends in elementary school who adored him, but it's sad to see these bonds weaken over time, as they grow up at a faster pace than him. He didn't know how good he had it when he was younger, but so far, he doesn't seem to mind not going to the dances or other social events. Our local public school has been very effective with its anti-bullying campaigns, so far he has been spared experiencing any protracted problems. The school has also been very attentive to the special needs programs, so I think he is doing the best he can in a positive environment. This was not the case for me in an all-boy's private school up until senior school, so I'm glad he is better off than I was at his age.
@@michaellynn7745 Friends in childhood, and bonds that weaken over time. That seems to be a common autism life experience. Doesn't mind not going to the dances and stuff, yup. I know that feel as well.
I can't predict what his future will be, but I'm glad that things have actually changed for the better compared to when I was a kid. Let's hope they keep changing more.
The reason many autistic people have problems learning sports is because we are always thinking ( actively evaluating our perceptions ). I had the same issue ( and still do a bit ) until I practiced zazen. Then I was able to quiet my mind and allow flow to happen.
I always thought, at least with me the eye thing was a trust thing. The only times I was ever able to look directly at someone was if I knew and trusted them. Whereas, anyone else I make less eye contact with.
As a diagnosed Aspie myself, there are a few behaviours described here that I can relate to. I tend to be easily stressed by sensory overload myself, albeit to a lesser extent than what a lot of other autistics experience, although in my case I'm far more bothered by crowded spaces than lights and noise (although the latter two do still bother me).
Social ques are also a problem for me, particularly when being given instructions, since I often need to be told VERY specifically what the other person wants.
The sound and flash "therapy" sounded like torture to me '-'
I really like your review and I agree, I love the subtle hints in the move like the joke about the dogs playing poker, >.< (I only just watched this movie, I really enjoyed it, (especially the reunion =D) but I'm not keen on the reviews of this by people who don't know anything about the autism spectrum, so I really appreciate this one, thanks
I agree. This movie did not really _teach_ autism to people the way shows like Atypical do. I've seen some reviews by people who just plain don't have a clue. It would be nice if they at least realized they didn't have a clue, and did a little bit of research before giving their review.
@@daytimesky Yup, (people please do your research!)
I think maybe it could have done with a little disclaimer at the start of the credits, just saying how big the spectrum is and that most aspies have different experiences with it and it can show differently, (especially in girls) but hey ho, I thought it was a pretty decent fictional movie and it's interesting to think how much our upbringing can effect us.
It feels set up for another movie too..
The only thing is have to say is the prison is not as surprising as you might think. He's not in a regular prison with a regular gen pop. He's in a Federal White Collar prison. Which unfortunately in the US makes a significant difference. The type of prison he was at is known as "Club Fed". Implying that it is a resort to normal prisons in the country. And is also implied in the movie by the fact his roommate that thought him did wanted to stay in prison vs being let out.
When I'm outside, and in public, I get overstimulated, and will chew my cheeks, or run a ribbon under my fingernails. Also if I'm in a safe environment, but there's a lot of people I'll get overstimulated, especially if they're talking. I'm legally blind because I'm albino, so I can't turn it off.
Oh, yeah. I despised the father from the sentence "he needs more of it, not less".
LMAO I was like, wtffffff this guy is memeing. Then I remembered some people are actually like that irl
I haven't done much research, but apparently it's a genuine therapy to help certain people with autism to habituate to over-stimuli. It might sound backwards or cruel, but from what I've heard it's a legit form of therapy/training.
@@Profile__1 Nope, it's torturous for autistic people. There are all sorts of things that have been done to autistic children in the interest of providing therapy that once those children become adults can have agency they reveal to have been torturous for them. That kind of "therapy" is focused on external behaviors and completely ignores what's going on inside and the whys. Negates the autistic person's personhood and consent. Each time we see Christian have a meltdown as a child, for example, there is a reason. Some kinds of therapy would just be focused on making him stop or to conceal his reactions without dealing with the why. In the case of sensory issues, the lights and the noises are painful. For autistic people, the pain doesn't go away with exposure. You may learn to tolerate even high levels of pain but it doesn't make it less painful. His Dad just habituated him to pain. He could have had a good life without that. Lots of autistic people have the same sensory issues Christian has and have a job and family, etc.
My Mom pulled that garbage on me, and I'm albino as well.
Like, even as a toddler, no matter how hard I worked on cleaning my room, if it wasn't 100% to her specifications, she would act like didn't do anything at all. And so I learned to care about things differently from her.
And I forget things all the time, and she knows it, but acts like I'm using my disabilities as a crutch, even though I've rarely ever used my blindness as a crutch .
She has called me lazy, and more recently, vile, a roommate from hell, etc, and she knows I'm a hard worker at work.
That's why I found it interesting that Christian was donating to the group in the beginning. He didn't like what his father did.
@@RKingisAnd neither did his brother. Recall that when they reunite, Braxton tells Christian that if going to the funeral of their mother, the woman who abandoned them, was that important to him, Christian should have come to Braxton and not their father.
Thank you for this video
Im not autistic. My children are. I like that the movie doesn't include the why of his behaviour. I think the film is smarter than that. Myself and other parents/family of autistic people are becoming more and more aware of the realities and can fill in those gaps. How did he survive in prison? He was protected and he had the benefit of routine.
I believe the scenes with the strobe lights are a nod to Ben playing Daredevil. If you remember that film (or even saw it) you'll recall that Matt Murdock goes in the opposite direction by sleeping in a sensory deprivation tank.
I am a proud autistic
I'm proud of you.
Bright flashing light debilitates my eyes with sharp pains and then gives me bad migraines. No amount of "exposure" will make those lights tolerable.
Same with certain smells that cause migraines.
Exactly! The makers of this movie don't truly understand autism.
perhaps the loud sounds and strobe lights gave him an adrenaline rush from the sensory inputs. It may have been similar to how some people will subject themselves to physical pain for the same reason. I've been manic before and i purposefully made a radio go static and turn the volume up, something that would have otherwise irritated the f*ck out of me. and yes, im on the spectrum myself
You forgot to mention the scene when Christian shows Dana what he figured out and that it proves that her suspicions were correct. They're both equally excited and he even shows no annoyance when she bumps him on the shoulder. I know the movie later tries to hint at a romance (which I'm glad it doesn’t follow through on because I'm usually not a fan of forced romance in action movies), but I think their shared excitement, and him temporarily letting his guard down, is because they both share the same interest which, in this case, is mathematics. I have no idea how accurate that scene is to real life, though.
good analysis - thanks !
don't let perfection be the enemy of the good
Appreciate the video !
I have that form of autism, hyper fascination.
Good analysis
How Christian Survived Prison. I'm pretty sure if they do sequel the movie they may explain why, but here goes. While Christian is well trained in combat, he is also been I assume trained by his father to exercise his brain as much as his muscles and life. So needless to say he taught him everything. Math, Science, Strategy. Things like that. Since his father was in the military he probably was a P.O.W. so odds are he taught his boys how to survive being imprisoned. Not just how to defend yourself, but make yourself useful enough to stay alive and make coin. Christian probably talked to some people in the prison and gave them some financial advice. They probably referred him to the mobster that taught him laundering. As a result, he was probably under his protection in prison.
It's a kick in the teeth to people like myself to be honest. The children in the opening scene made me cringe. We aren't savants due to having sensory overload..
I believe his portrayal is quite accurate although I don’t know of any autistic person trained to deal with their reaction to over stimulation the way he portrayed. I know of other techniques to help them but not what I saw in the movie.
Yeah, I also question the accuracy of plunging into overstimulation, or even gradual exposure therapy. Clearly, allistics wrote this story.
Probably the most unusual/unlikely portrayal of a High Functioning Autistic Adult with savant skills ever.
Regarding the lights and the music. Yes they are a problem for us. I can attest to that. Even if it's music I love I can only enjoy it at a certain volume. I have learned to tolerate it among social gatherings, but other than that it feels like I'm being drilled in the ears. Anyway, while tough love may have been the motivation I think this was also part of Chris' training. In the form of physical and mental conditioning. Since Chris was being trained in firearms he had to get used to how loud the gun is and how bright and fast the light from the gunpowder is. Later on when he had his breakdown over not being able to finish his recent job, he deliberately put himself back in that room, not to condition himself, but to hurt himself. Because he felt that bad about the job. However since he was used to doing that to himself for years he resorted to smacking himself with the stick.
3:40 where did you find this photo??
I don't remember, but likely when looking for things relating to the movie.
@@daytimesky damn I didn't expect you respond but thank you I am going subscribe you
My main issue with the Autistic representation in the movie is the use of outdated high and low functioning labels