An additional benefit of these dampers is that you gain preload adjustment for the spring. I would often run dry or with Kyosho 5000 grease and mostly use it for preload adjustment to control the droop with a softer spring rate than would be possible for the standard arrangement. Kyosho also has option arms with caster for this damper set. MZW416B-02 One of my favorite setups for mini-z used throughout the years was to use this damper setup with very soft spring. Long kingpin with short AWD springs. The inner spring would always be loaded, but the outer spring would only engage as the mass transferred forward or sideways, so it was effectively a progressive spring setup or dual stage. I dont know if it would be a setup that I would recommend today, but it was nice at the time that I used it around 2009-10 when the MR03 was new.
Thanks EMU. If I'm reading you correctly, you had two springs on each side, one in the regular spot and the other at the top of the long king pin? That's pretty wild. Let's see what upgrade parts Kyosho is planning for mr-04.
@@sammybaka Yeah, I ran that on my LM Mr03 for a couple years. It was one of my favorite cars to drive at that time. But just the preload adjustment opens up options for spring rate in addition to the damping. I feel that it is the best value front end that you can get for the MR03. Just add some knuckles, and flip the kingpin. Add some caster if wanted with option arms. I have always liked the single arm front end for the MR03.
Incidentally, Kyosho has another front suspension upgrade for the MR-03 through Route 246: R246-1341 individual oil damper. So RWD has all the goodies but AWD has to rely on 3rd parties, such as M-power (front lower wishbone but no damper) or X-power (metal arm with damper but very expensive).
Yes I also considered the individual oil damper upgrade, but users haven't had a good experience with it. It seems the geometry severely limits the shock piston travel and hence bad dampening and rebound. Yeah unfortunately Kyosho doesn't really design track performance upgrades for ma-020 or ma-030evo.
@@sammybaka Atomic has a few of the I.A.S. front ends left at Miracle Mart, which is essentially the same concept as the R246 but uses grease shocks. By design, the ATM upper arms use a high angle, which I dont care for because it becomes too aggressive. But if you reduce shims above the knuckle, you have positive camber at the kingpin. Which is something that also isnt good. When I ran the front end, I used the Reflex adjustable upper tower which allows you to set the hinge spacing, and adjust the camber/arm length and keep the arms lower angled. This makes the car drive flatter, and reduces traction roll considerably considering that the arm length is longer than the standard MR03. Longer arms which start at less angle/flatter, have less camber gain. I have no clue where that car is... but if I drive AAA cars again, I think I would want to build that front end, and another with the MZW416
Wow at miraclemart it's so interesting to see all the discontinued atomic mods for mini-z. I do hope that we will get a good ecosystem even though many of the 3rd party players have their own cars now.
@@sammybaka In the past, all aftermarket production had revolved around the Mini-Z chassis... which kept a common ground and framed the development approach. There were limitations due to the battery/servo of the main chassis... The PN chassis while changing the main chassis only evolved the concept but kept the servo as standard, since that has a hard time moving. Now with the new wave of cars, we see a lot of different concepts coming. Different servo location and assembly arrangements. These can have minor to major differences in how the car performs, or at least feels... I dont think that we will see as much in the aftermarket for the MR04 as we did for the MR03. Many of the aftermarket that supported MR03 at least early on now have their own platforms. Reflex, PN, Atomic, Nexx all have their own car... and X-Power has GL. So I think that it will be mostly r246, and possibly other less known brands who want to develop with lower venture risk than creating a complete car.
I have the solution for that is more cheap. What I did in my ma20 is remove the coil spring and next is cut some foam that the same length of the circumference of the coils and then the tuning cut the foam to you best setup now you have a limited and not bouncy front suspension!!
Nice vid! Where do you usually drive these little cars? I've been interested in them for a while but they don't seem well suited to the outdoors. Do you make little tracks inside and race them or something?
Thank you. Some of my cars are set up for a track, and I go to a local hobby store to use their RCP track in the basement. For other cars, I drive in the apartment or carpeted area like in the office. These 1:28 road cars cannot handle outdoor at all.
Hello, Sammy. Do you think they can be adapted to a MA-020? I have always wanted to improve the front suspension of my chassis. I once did tests with foam rubber (I have a video on my channel) and I feel that it produces a good damping effect. Your video is very good.
Thank you. Adapting to ma-020 is going to be a tough one. MA-020 doesn't have that small separate cover holding the springs in. The end of the suspension arms holding the springs down will also need to be modified to attach the tiny pivot balls on the top of the metal pistons, but the designs of that piece are quite different between ma-020 and mr-03
@@pablocrudovideo The X-Power front suspension system for ma-020 has dampened shocks. Looking at the geometry though I can't see how effective the dampening action can be.
An additional benefit of these dampers is that you gain preload adjustment for the spring. I would often run dry or with Kyosho 5000 grease and mostly use it for preload adjustment to control the droop with a softer spring rate than would be possible for the standard arrangement.
Kyosho also has option arms with caster for this damper set. MZW416B-02
One of my favorite setups for mini-z used throughout the years was to use this damper setup with very soft spring. Long kingpin with short AWD springs. The inner spring would always be loaded, but the outer spring would only engage as the mass transferred forward or sideways, so it was effectively a progressive spring setup or dual stage. I dont know if it would be a setup that I would recommend today, but it was nice at the time that I used it around 2009-10 when the MR03 was new.
Thanks EMU. If I'm reading you correctly, you had two springs on each side, one in the regular spot and the other at the top of the long king pin? That's pretty wild. Let's see what upgrade parts Kyosho is planning for mr-04.
@@sammybaka Yeah, I ran that on my LM Mr03 for a couple years. It was one of my favorite cars to drive at that time. But just the preload adjustment opens up options for spring rate in addition to the damping.
I feel that it is the best value front end that you can get for the MR03. Just add some knuckles, and flip the kingpin. Add some caster if wanted with option arms. I have always liked the single arm front end for the MR03.
Can't wait to try this on a track! I feel this car is still going to be competitive vs mr-04evo2
Incidentally, Kyosho has another front suspension upgrade for the MR-03 through Route 246: R246-1341 individual oil damper. So RWD has all the goodies but AWD has to rely on 3rd parties, such as M-power (front lower wishbone but no damper) or X-power (metal arm with damper but very expensive).
Yes I also considered the individual oil damper upgrade, but users haven't had a good experience with it. It seems the geometry severely limits the shock piston travel and hence bad dampening and rebound. Yeah unfortunately Kyosho doesn't really design track performance upgrades for ma-020 or ma-030evo.
@@sammybaka Atomic has a few of the I.A.S. front ends left at Miracle Mart, which is essentially the same concept as the R246 but uses grease shocks.
By design, the ATM upper arms use a high angle, which I dont care for because it becomes too aggressive. But if you reduce shims above the knuckle, you have positive camber at the kingpin. Which is something that also isnt good. When I ran the front end, I used the Reflex adjustable upper tower which allows you to set the hinge spacing, and adjust the camber/arm length and keep the arms lower angled. This makes the car drive flatter, and reduces traction roll considerably considering that the arm length is longer than the standard MR03. Longer arms which start at less angle/flatter, have less camber gain.
I have no clue where that car is... but if I drive AAA cars again, I think I would want to build that front end, and another with the MZW416
Wow at miraclemart it's so interesting to see all the discontinued atomic mods for mini-z. I do hope that we will get a good ecosystem even though many of the 3rd party players have their own cars now.
@@sammybaka In the past, all aftermarket production had revolved around the Mini-Z chassis... which kept a common ground and framed the development approach. There were limitations due to the battery/servo of the main chassis... The PN chassis while changing the main chassis only evolved the concept but kept the servo as standard, since that has a hard time moving.
Now with the new wave of cars, we see a lot of different concepts coming. Different servo location and assembly arrangements. These can have minor to major differences in how the car performs, or at least feels...
I dont think that we will see as much in the aftermarket for the MR04 as we did for the MR03. Many of the aftermarket that supported MR03 at least early on now have their own platforms. Reflex, PN, Atomic, Nexx all have their own car... and X-Power has GL. So I think that it will be mostly r246, and possibly other less known brands who want to develop with lower venture risk than creating a complete car.
I have the solution for that is more cheap. What I did in my ma20 is remove the coil spring and next is cut some foam that the same length of the circumference of the coils and then the tuning cut the foam to you best setup now you have a limited and not bouncy front suspension!!
Nice vid! Where do you usually drive these little cars? I've been interested in them for a while but they don't seem well suited to the outdoors. Do you make little tracks inside and race them or something?
Thank you. Some of my cars are set up for a track, and I go to a local hobby store to use their RCP track in the basement. For other cars, I drive in the apartment or carpeted area like in the office. These 1:28 road cars cannot handle outdoor at all.
Hello, Sammy. Do you think they can be adapted to a MA-020? I have always wanted to improve the front suspension of my chassis. I once did tests with foam rubber (I have a video on my channel) and I feel that it produces a good damping effect. Your video is very good.
Thank you. Adapting to ma-020 is going to be a tough one. MA-020 doesn't have that small separate cover holding the springs in. The end of the suspension arms holding the springs down will also need to be modified to attach the tiny pivot balls on the top of the metal pistons, but the designs of that piece are quite different between ma-020 and mr-03
Just checked out some of your videos! Cool experiment there with foam pieces as springs.
@@sammybaka It is difficult to achieve precision with foam, but it has been the only cheap alternative I have found. Thank you so much.
@@pablocrudovideo The X-Power front suspension system for ma-020 has dampened shocks. Looking at the geometry though I can't see how effective the dampening action can be.
@@sammybaka Yes I have seen it. There are few options to buy it and it is somewhat expensive. Thank you very much for all the information.