A little late of a reply cuz Ytube's notifications are weird lol, but glad it could help! I was wondering whether or not it actually made sense to the general population or if I worded things improperly since no one else said anything. Nice to see it helped some!
This is very good work, must've been a big job putting this video together, all of us learning this stuff appreciate tutorials like this! Keep up the great work..
Thanks for the vid, I've always heard and saw convos about frame data on shoryuken.com but it never made any since to me and looked very frustrating to understand but your vid really simplified everything making it much easier to understand and be more efficient when doing combos.....thank you very much for making this vid.
Akumaa2000 These are the best comments to receive! Thanks for letting me know! I'm always unsure of whether or not anyone's really getting anything good out of the video, so these comments put me at ease. GL pal.
hi! i am just wondering, surely its possible to study the frame datas on different movements to see which move is faster than the other to do a counter move, but how likely is that to happened as you actually have to time it well enough? and now i am talking about doing a counter move in which the opponent is executing a combo
:OOOO I'm sorry! TH-cam's notification system is bad, so this never popped up anywehere. :( To answer your question (1 month late...) yes that's possible. If you compare two moves' startup frames, the one with fewer will come out faster. So, if I press a 3 frame startup jab on an enemy's 12 frame startup overheard, I would have 12-3 frames, so 9 frames, to react to it. 1 frame is 1/60th of a second, so 9 frames is almost 1/6th of a second. It's pretty short, but very possible for people who expect them, have high reaction time, or buffer counters. For any move that has 6 or fewer frames, you're not going to react to it, in all likelihood. During an ememy's combo while you're blocking, it's very tough. You would have to know how much their moves advantage on block is, and anything that's -1 or worse you would be able to jab inbetween. It's not safe, because you have to remember a bunch of moves and react properly. It is however possible if a person's just pressing buttons, because they will try things like jumps, overheads, heavy moves, etc which are slow. So, instead of countering, a lot of people will try to make the enemy miss a move, and hit them on their recovery. It's kind of a safer counter, but you don't get counter-hit bonus. Sorry again for the late reply!
Thanks for the reply! (dont worry about it taking 1month). i have an additional question on "frame advantage on block" lets say a move is -9 on block. whether or not you are able to continue to execute your next move depends on if the move is -9 on you or -9 on your opponent? ive seen some frames displaying +9 on block which would make the enemy -9. a pretty bad situation for your opponent even though it was on block (note that i saw this on tekken tag 2 and NOT SF) also how do i unlock that long haired akuma outfit. i believe i saw him somewhere in the active frame section of the video.
+Cory Flippen Depends on the character. Ryu's crouching heavy punch can be cancelled into a shoryuken. You literally just input the shoryuken immediately after the cr.hp hits.
Hi, I need a little more guidance for understanding cancels. Mortal Kombat X is coming out soon and I've been doing some research on it and this video was very helpful. Any chance you could explain cancels? I am reading frame data forms and I see discussion about cancels and execution and am a little confused. If you could let me know I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks.
Sorry for the wall of text X( but I don't know what you do and don't already know, and this should cover it. I'm not sure if MKX is the same as SF4, but cancels are basically cancelling a move (most of the time a normal) into another move (most of the time a special). In terms of frame data, move2 starts up during move1's active frames. So for instance, Ryu's Crouch.MP has 4 active frames. For your move to cancel, it has to actually hit an enemy and not miss, so even though he has 4 active frames, he requires 1 of those frames to hit, and therefore has 3 additional active frames to cancel out of. So if you want to calculate if something can hit, you use the above formula in the description: Cancel-able if [Active Frames] + [Recovery Frames] + [Frame Advantage on Hit] - 1 is equal to or larger than next move's [Startup Frames]. The "-1" is the 1 required active frame to hit. But, you can still press move2 too late into move1's active frames. Like again, Ryu's Crouch.MP should have 16 frames of MAXIMUM available time for startup frames (Active + Recover + Frame ADV - 1), but you still have to press the button within the 3 allotted active frames. If you press it later, it will be during recovery frames and won't cancel. Also, if move2 has a 15 or 16 startup and you press the move at the last available active frame, you're basically just giving Ryu 14 frames instead of 16 and the move will be blockable. If your formula shows that it SHOULD be possible to hit but it doesn't, then you're execution might be off, as in, you might be pressing move2 too late during move1's active frames (or attempting to cancel out of recovery frames), the formula/frame data might be slightly wrong, or something else that I can't think of at the moment lol, like maybe you're not using a cancel-able move. If that doesn't cover what you need, let me know.
BGKoolaid Just saw this. Thanks for taking the time to write this out. Yeah, explaining the definition of cancels are interrupting active frames made it much more clear. Could you tell me why "cancel" frames are useful-what is that information used they to achieve/ useful? and how I can use cancel data to help my game. You rock.Cheers.
AnimeMaster12345 To be honest, these cancel frames won't help you that much off the start, as far as I know.They can help you learn combos, but that's not that big of a deal. You'll likely stumble across a lot of combos just by playing the game, so frame data won't be as necessary for that. Frame data in MKX will likely be a lot more for finding punishes, safe moves, counters, and maaaybe juggles if that data is involved. When the frame data comes out for MKX, I'd suggest using it more for punishes than anything else, off the start at least. Basically, focusing on cancel frames is probably not that important. Then again, I'm bad at fighting games, so I could be absolutely wrong about what's important in MKX hahaha. I'm not sure if the discussion on cancels and execution that you read made them seem important, so they might be more important than I thought, but to my knowledge cancel frame data mostly just helps with finding combos.
AnimeMaster12345 Well, I just learned that the cancel frames in MKX are completely different. They seem to show when a special can be cancelled out of a normal/combo. I'm not 100% certain of all the frame data yet, but it looks like the time you have to press the next combo/special out of a move is equal to its cancel frames. So if a move has 0 cancel frames, it wont cancel into anything else. If a move has 18 cancel frames, then you have to input the next move within 18 frames of your current move. If that makes sense.. Basically the smaller the number of cancel frames, the faster you have to input the next move. Again I could still be wrong, but that's what it looks like at first glance.
The recovery of a move is not relevant for canceling, as it is the timeframe you skip by caneling during the active frames, making it possible to begin with.
+Arden Thomas Sorry for the late reply but Ytube's notifications of comments are apparently messing up. You're correct that recovery isn't necessary to figure out if a move can be cancelled or not, but I was more referring to whether or not the second attack will hit rather than just cancel. I suppose I should have worded that differently. If that's not what you mean then I apologize, but I don't know what else you would be talking about, since recovery is important, to my knowledge, in finding combos.
I'm sorry, I don't exactly understand what you're asking. If you want to know where you can find combos, there are plenty of sites that give some good combos. Kinda got the feeling that wasn't what you meant, though.
If you are looking for combos, I normally go here forums.shoryuken.com/categories/character-discussion and look for a combo thread for whichever character. You may have to register or create a profile before being able to see anything.
I know alot of those combos , however I have hit a wall with ryu. There are lots of matches that still give me problems, one of them is balrog and ibuki, ken at times he beats me because of this speed. I want to improve with Ryu but I don't know what I'm lacking. I find myself fighting strong opponents at a distance. I don't think this is right, I would like to figure out a way to extend my combos, although my cancelling is not bad, and my FADC capabilities are not bad either. Any ideas?
Matchup knowledge is extremely important. I'm not sure how you would go about extending your combos, but I would definitely look up matchups. Finding videos of good Ryu players and seeing what they do against certain characters is a good way, or just by searching. I found this, which is apparently an archive of blogs by Air, a fantastic Ryu player: www.la-pub-dans-les-films.fr/ryu/www.airryu.com/indexaa1e.html?cat=4 . You can look around there for a lot of his information against certain enemies. Hopefully that helps you past your wall.
+Cory Flippen Pretty much. You have to press the 2nd move's input during the 1st move's active frames after a hit. So for example, Ryu's crouch medium kick into hadouken, as soon as you see the crouch medium kick hit the enemy, your hado should be input. You don't have very long, so it's best to predict when it'll hit and press it when you think it will. If Ryu pulls his leg back after the hit and goes through its recovery and then hado's, it won't combo. So to reiterate, time the 2nd move for as soon as the first move hits the enemy.
Cory you have the right idea, speed is important when inputting moves. Basically think of the game as a computer program which it is... so moves are like inputting commands, certain commands can be override. So start by cancelling a medium kick into a fire ball. Input medium punch and immediately perform the move for fireball. after this you can try cr hard punch into a hurricane kick. Once you get a handle on these moves you will understand better cancelling.
I'm not great at the game. I know mechanics, but I wouldn't be able coach someone properly. Punishing, antiairs, matchups, blocking, mixups, baits, zoning.. they're all necessary. If you're weak somewhere, find out what the proper way to do it is, then practice it in training and endless. I can say that matchup knowledge is huge, though, and is overlooked a lot. If you know what you can or cant beat, the characters tricks, and what you can punish, it makes the fight a LOT easier. I might be able to spar with you, though. What platform do you play on?
This Tutorial is amazing! Thank you so, so soooo much!
A little late of a reply cuz Ytube's notifications are weird lol, but glad it could help! I was wondering whether or not it actually made sense to the general population or if I worded things improperly since no one else said anything. Nice to see it helped some!
This is very good work, must've been a big job putting this video together, all of us learning this stuff appreciate tutorials like this! Keep up the great work..
I appreciate the compliment! I'm terrible at explaining stuff so I just hoped it informed properly and simply enough without being wrong lol.
Thanks for the vid, I've always heard and saw convos about frame data on shoryuken.com but it never made any since to me and looked very frustrating to understand but your vid really simplified everything making it much easier to understand and be more efficient when doing combos.....thank you very much for making this vid.
Akumaa2000 These are the best comments to receive! Thanks for letting me know! I'm always unsure of whether or not anyone's really getting anything good out of the video, so these comments put me at ease. GL pal.
Thanks man, It's helping alot!
I'll be sure to pass your link on to anybody else who want's to learn frame data.
Thanks again!
Thanks dude! I enjoy hearing it was useful!
Thank you!! EXTREMELY useful!
hi! i am just wondering, surely its possible to study the frame datas on different movements to see which move is faster than the other to do a counter move, but how likely is that to happened as you actually have to time it well enough? and now i am talking about doing a counter move in which the opponent is executing a combo
:OOOO I'm sorry! TH-cam's notification system is bad, so this never popped up anywehere. :(
To answer your question (1 month late...) yes that's possible. If you compare two moves' startup frames, the one with fewer will come out faster. So, if I press a 3 frame startup jab on an enemy's 12 frame startup overheard, I would have 12-3 frames, so 9 frames, to react to it. 1 frame is 1/60th of a second, so 9 frames is almost 1/6th of a second. It's pretty short, but very possible for people who expect them, have high reaction time, or buffer counters. For any move that has 6 or fewer frames, you're not going to react to it, in all likelihood.
During an ememy's combo while you're blocking, it's very tough. You would have to know how much their moves advantage on block is, and anything that's -1 or worse you would be able to jab inbetween. It's not safe, because you have to remember a bunch of moves and react properly. It is however possible if a person's just pressing buttons, because they will try things like jumps, overheads, heavy moves, etc which are slow.
So, instead of countering, a lot of people will try to make the enemy miss a move, and hit them on their recovery. It's kind of a safer counter, but you don't get counter-hit bonus. Sorry again for the late reply!
Thanks for the reply! (dont worry about it taking 1month). i have an additional question on "frame advantage on block" lets say a move is -9 on block. whether or not you are able to continue to execute your next move depends on if the move is -9 on you or -9 on your opponent? ive seen some frames displaying +9 on block which would make the enemy -9. a pretty bad situation for your opponent even though it was on block (note that i saw this on tekken tag 2 and NOT SF) also how do i unlock that long haired akuma outfit. i believe i saw him somewhere in the active frame section of the video.
I now understand what cancelling is but HOW DO YOU CANCEL? This is what im struggling with
+Cory Flippen Depends on the character. Ryu's crouching heavy punch can be cancelled into a shoryuken. You literally just input the shoryuken immediately after the cr.hp hits.
Hi, I need a little more guidance for understanding cancels. Mortal Kombat X is coming out soon and I've been doing some research on it and this video was very helpful. Any chance you could explain cancels? I am reading frame data forms and I see discussion about cancels and execution and am a little confused. If you could let me know I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks.
Sorry for the wall of text X( but I don't know what you do and don't already know, and this should cover it.
I'm not sure if MKX is the same as SF4, but cancels are basically cancelling a move (most of the time a normal) into another move (most of the time a special). In terms of frame data, move2 starts up during move1's active frames.
So for instance, Ryu's Crouch.MP has 4 active frames. For your move to cancel, it has to actually hit an enemy and not miss, so even though he has 4 active frames, he requires 1 of those frames to hit, and therefore has 3 additional active frames to cancel out of.
So if you want to calculate if something can hit, you use the above formula in the description: Cancel-able if [Active Frames] + [Recovery Frames] + [Frame Advantage on Hit] - 1 is equal to or larger than next move's [Startup Frames].
The "-1" is the 1 required active frame to hit. But, you can still press move2 too late into move1's active frames. Like again, Ryu's Crouch.MP should have 16 frames of MAXIMUM available time for startup frames (Active + Recover + Frame ADV - 1), but you still have to press the button within the 3 allotted active frames. If you press it later, it will be during recovery frames and won't cancel. Also, if move2 has a 15 or 16 startup and you press the move at the last available active frame, you're basically just giving Ryu 14 frames instead of 16 and the move will be blockable.
If your formula shows that it SHOULD be possible to hit but it doesn't, then you're execution might be off, as in, you might be pressing move2 too late during move1's active frames (or attempting to cancel out of recovery frames), the formula/frame data might be slightly wrong, or something else that I can't think of at the moment lol, like maybe you're not using a cancel-able move.
If that doesn't cover what you need, let me know.
BGKoolaid Just saw this. Thanks for taking the time to write this out. Yeah, explaining the definition of cancels are interrupting active frames made it much more clear. Could you tell me why "cancel" frames are useful-what is that information used they to achieve/ useful? and how I can use cancel data to help my game. You rock.Cheers.
AnimeMaster12345 To be honest, these cancel frames won't help you that much off the start, as far as I know.They can help you learn combos, but that's not that big of a deal. You'll likely stumble across a lot of combos just by playing the game, so frame data won't be as necessary for that.
Frame data in MKX will likely be a lot more for finding punishes, safe moves, counters, and maaaybe juggles if that data is involved.
When the frame data comes out for MKX, I'd suggest using it more for punishes than anything else, off the start at least.
Basically, focusing on cancel frames is probably not that important.
Then again, I'm bad at fighting games, so I could be absolutely wrong about what's important in MKX hahaha.
I'm not sure if the discussion on cancels and execution that you read made them seem important, so they might be more important than I thought, but to my knowledge cancel frame data mostly just helps with finding combos.
AnimeMaster12345 Well, I just learned that the cancel frames in MKX are completely different. They seem to show when a special can be cancelled out of a normal/combo. I'm not 100% certain of all the frame data yet, but it looks like the time you have to press the next combo/special out of a move is equal to its cancel frames. So if a move has 0 cancel frames, it wont cancel into anything else. If a move has 18 cancel frames, then you have to input the next move within 18 frames of your current move. If that makes sense.. Basically the smaller the number of cancel frames, the faster you have to input the next move. Again I could still be wrong, but that's what it looks like at first glance.
The recovery of a move is not relevant for canceling, as it is the timeframe you skip by caneling during the active frames, making it possible to begin with.
+Arden Thomas Sorry for the late reply but Ytube's notifications of comments are apparently messing up.
You're correct that recovery isn't necessary to figure out if a move can be cancelled or not, but I was more referring to whether or not the second attack will hit rather than just cancel. I suppose I should have worded that differently. If that's not what you mean then I apologize, but I don't know what else you would be talking about, since recovery is important, to my knowledge, in finding combos.
Anywhere I can find all this combos already digested?
I'm sorry, I don't exactly understand what you're asking. If you want to know where you can find combos, there are plenty of sites that give some good combos. Kinda got the feeling that wasn't what you meant, though.
That's what I mean.... I dont get this...
If you are looking for combos, I normally go here forums.shoryuken.com/categories/character-discussion and look for a combo thread for whichever character. You may have to register or create a profile before being able to see anything.
I know alot of those combos , however I have hit a wall with ryu. There are lots of matches that still give me problems, one of them is balrog and ibuki, ken at times he beats me because of this speed. I want to improve with Ryu but I don't know what I'm lacking. I find myself fighting strong opponents at a distance. I don't think this is right, I would like to figure out a way to extend my combos, although my cancelling is not bad, and my FADC capabilities are not bad either. Any ideas?
Matchup knowledge is extremely important. I'm not sure how you would go about extending your combos, but I would definitely look up matchups. Finding videos of good Ryu players and seeing what they do against certain characters is a good way, or just by searching. I found this, which is apparently an archive of blogs by Air, a fantastic Ryu player: www.la-pub-dans-les-films.fr/ryu/www.airryu.com/indexaa1e.html?cat=4 . You can look around there for a lot of his information against certain enemies. Hopefully that helps you past your wall.
i mean, do you just do all of the moves really fast or what? Its really frustrating
+Cory Flippen Pretty much. You have to press the 2nd move's input during the 1st move's active frames after a hit. So for example, Ryu's crouch medium kick into hadouken, as soon as you see the crouch medium kick hit the enemy, your hado should be input. You don't have very long, so it's best to predict when it'll hit and press it when you think it will. If Ryu pulls his leg back after the hit and goes through its recovery and then hado's, it won't combo. So to reiterate, time the 2nd move for as soon as the first move hits the enemy.
+Cory Flippen You have to time it.
Cory you have the right idea, speed is important when inputting moves. Basically think of the game as a computer program which it is... so moves are like inputting commands, certain commands can be override. So start by cancelling a medium kick into a fire ball. Input medium punch and immediately perform the move for fireball. after this you can try cr hard punch into a hurricane kick. Once you get a handle on these moves you will understand better cancelling.
Do you give coaching on Ryu?
I'm not great at the game. I know mechanics, but I wouldn't be able coach someone properly. Punishing, antiairs, matchups, blocking, mixups, baits, zoning.. they're all necessary. If you're weak somewhere, find out what the proper way to do it is, then practice it in training and endless. I can say that matchup knowledge is huge, though, and is overlooked a lot. If you know what you can or cant beat, the characters tricks, and what you can punish, it makes the fight a LOT easier. I might be able to spar with you, though. What platform do you play on?
I'm using 3ds alot lately... you know how it is always on the go!
But I don't use auto-block with Ryu and Ken. That's why I'm always fluctuating between c+ and B.
How do u space
In what way do you mean?
The noob combo that real matters lp, lp, DP
Now let me go sign up for evo