Ferguson FE35 Injection Pump Reseal Part 1 Dismantling the Pump
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2018
- 23C FUEL INJECTION PUMP RESEAL.
This is part 1 of a two-part series on fitting a new seal kit to a 4-cylinder CAV rotary injection pump that came from a Ferguson FE35 4-cylinder diesel tractor with the Standard 23C engine.
Here is a link to a few of the parts available for this pump.
S.57135 Seal Kit www.queenslandtractorspares.c...
Q62546 New top cover
www.queenslandtractorspares.c...
Other FE35 Diesel Parts
www.queenslandtractorspares.c... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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You have know idea how much money you save people by doing these videos. Thank for all the work you do to help out fellow mankind.
Thankyou, Im glad it helps people out.
Cheers Lance. Have watched plenty of your videos and done a few of these pumps but today did one that wasn’t getting fuel after a reseal. Had to check and found the rollers in the head that push in the cams seized 42mins. Forced them out, cleaned up and now she’s working like a new one. Cheers again from NQ where we love our Bundy rum!
I had the same problem one time so I check them each time now as well. Yep Bundy Rum is great stuff. Cane Cutters Cordial.
Great video, mine gives no fuel to the injectors, I've have some trouble with dismanteling but after watching the video again, it makes clear. Now I'll go and clean everuthing and put it back togehter. Thanks so much for this video.
Have a look at my massey Ferguson 135 6 speed playlist videos 14 and 15. They are better videos and there is more detail.
Hi just wondering what you found as the cause of your pump issue as mine is doing exactly the same?
Perfect! Thanks Lance for steering me here. I must admit, I only have minor maintenance to do right now (throttle and stopper shaft seals leaking). But watching this, I’ll probably go looking at the filter screen, and who knows how far I’ll keep digging! Thanks again for making these first-class videos 👍
Glad to help.
Thank you Lance for these outstanding videos. I rebuilt two pumps saving $2000. Both tractors running great!
Great to hear!
A very clear and easy to follow tutorial on one of these good old pumps .
Thanks Gerald.
tsefr3
Totally agree Gerald
Great vid, loving the falling tools and bits, makes me feel like I am at home in my garage :)
Glad you enjoyed thats how you tell if it is me or not, lol.
Great video. It’s all in the details
Thanks Martin,
Cheers Bundy big help, managed to do it and save myself around £500
Good work.
Muchas gracias... Un gran maestro una buena persona... He aprendido mucho con usted... Todos los videos son muy útiles... Saludos desde Panamá..
Thankyou.
Dang Lance! Compared to the rest of that tractor, that pump is space age! Great video!
They were on almost every machine back in this era as well.
Good one Lance! John
Thanks John.
Great vid good detail, I am learning some New Zealand lingo here , diff than USA , here we say, combination wrench , consisting of box end & open end , some people say spanner for the open end . You showed a tubing nut , for those I always use tubing wrenches - -A 6 point wrench with
“1”. Of the sides cut out,. That way never distorts the circle ! You might make some aluminum or smooth steel jaws for your vice , so you can grip things more firmly without leaving marks .
Now for the reason I was on the internet looking I was using the lift pump , thumb pump to pump out any air from the inj pump( Lucas Cav )
On a Case Tractor backhoe (580 K) 1989 with Cummins 390 motor . I had loosened up the lines so I could rotate the complete pump to advance the timing without Torquing the lines to much as it was set at original stock timing & is overheating ! I will have to go to the top of the story here ! I was having running problems 5yrs ago and the mechanic said it was my inj pump so he had it rebuilt at a shop here in Costa Rica & I found I had a dirty inline fuel filter, I don’t believe it was the inj pump at all !When they put the pump back on to have any power, moved the pump to almost full advance & it still lacked power , then 3yrs ago I got a leak in a heater hose under the tractor on the way to help a man pull his truck back onto the road , cooked the motor , 100% rebuild ! Had many re-build problems ( poor shop) so first running ,some light work in a friends driveway, but overheating ! No real chance check out its power level . Watching a Gail Banks vid learned that retarded timing causes over heating & damages pistons, hence I was advancing the pump !
I loosened the acorn nut instead of bleeder , realizing my mistake (I saw bubbles at the gasket) & when I tightened the nut I twisted off the bolt so looked for a vid on NOW what am l going to do, “found you “! THANKS for posting !
In your vid you pointed out that the inside of the pump can be mistimed , i wonder if this is why they had to advance the pump ???? I have lots of pictures. Do l have to take the pump apart to check this out ? Now to find a new bolt .
No just look in the side plate and see if ti is close there
Hello again Lance , as you can see I have commented to you several times on this vid & others , & you have responded , but I am not getting the answers I am looking for , probably cause I am not asking the question properly, so let me try & give a background.
I have looked at every vid I can find on u-tub , for answers.
The tractor was not running properly & a tractor mech told me it was my inj pump , so he took it to a shop & they rebuilt it & brought it back to me 3x , because it was short on power. There was a chisel mark on the part that bolts up, & the back of the timing gear cover with the 3 bolts that when mounted would be about center of the adj slots , however we had to rotate the pump to almost full advance & there it would ping hard. In the mean time “I” found a inline fuel filter that seamed ok , but when I changed it , it made a difference , my fault.
I have retarded the pump a little bit from full advance to cut back on the ping but I have to idle it at about 800 rpm for a smooth idle, I currently have the pump of again to clean up because of rust & reblue the black parts.
Here in your vid at 23:56 you show the pump advance, & again at 44 min. that’s on the bottom of the pump & you move the internal parts of it with your finger, mine will NOT move, when I removed the nut off the big end of it, it was under a lot of tension, observed the were 2 heavy springs in there & to re assemble I had to squeeze it carefully in the jaws of the vise, (where you assemble yours with your fingers ) there is a light spring in the other end. You also said some have a ball, mine does .
Where you removed the 4 injector tube bolts with their steel washers, mine is a banjo bolt set up with 4 - 3” long pipes going horizontal out the rear, 2 of them had a washer, one each side, & 1 had one under the pipe & 2 above, the other has one under & non above. Those banjo bolts, on the end inside the pump have 3 ports in the side just above the thread & a roll pin in the end, (observing), there is a spring & ball inside. The one that had no washer under the head the roll pin is pushed all the way in & when you shake, it rattles as does one of the others, which tell me different spring tension; the length of 3 of them , with the roll pin sticking out = 1.030 th but the one with the roll pin all the way is .900 , that’s .040th diff & then the steel washer is 70.th . That would put the ends of those banjo bolts at diff clearance from the port in the head; would that have any bearing on how much fuel goes out to the inj ?
Incidentally mine has the electric fuel solenoid in the bottom of this head & the mechanical one on the top side of the pump does nothing.
Sure wish I could send you pictures.
The banjo needs to have 1 steel washer on each side not doubled up or missing. The advance on the bottom is hydraulic advance and should be nice and free in the bore when apart with some tension on it when assembled.
Very good video, thanks from Germany (MF 373).
Glad you liked it!
Quick tip, 15:52 is a godsend if you're not getting any fuel and you changed the filter(s) but still no dice, there's a small mesh filter underneath the intake fitting on the injection pump (the manual doesn't say anything about this).
We cover that in the videos, new ones come in the kits as well.
@@BundyBearsShed Yeah I saw, I'll include it in my original comment for transparency's sake.
Seen a lot of people on forums rebuild pumps only to find that "hidden" filter.
When you pull the head off, how do you assure the spline to the weight basket goes back the same way to maintain timing?
Edit: oh, nevermind. I see the spline is keyed to go in one way only
Yep master spline
If you had a pump failing to deliver on cylinder number 2 but the injector was proven good what would you suspect pump wise ??
The pump uses the same plungers on all cylinders so I would look at the fitting on the pump where the inlector pipe goes.
Thanks for your videos. My Ford 3000 has a cav pump. I pulled the fuel shut off to stop the tractor. 5 minutes later I pushed the fuel shut off in but the tractor wouldn't start. I checked fuel in and out of the filter. Both were good. Next I removed the fuel inlet assembly from the pump. I cleaned the fine filter. It wasn't very dirty. The little shuttle piece seemed to move pretty freely. After I watched your video I pulled the top cover off the pump to check the shut off, or the metering valve. It was stuck in the off position. I removed and cleaned, the put it back together. Now it cranked and ran about 15 minutes. The tractor started skipping, got worse, then stopped. On the side of the top cover there is a hose barb with a hose going to the front side of the front injector. The 3 injectors are all linked by hose with a hose leaving the rear injector going to a connection at the top of the fuel filler neck. Fuel is coming out of the hose from the top cover of the fuel pump. If I take the hose off the front side of the front injector, and catch the fuel in a jar, the tractor runs fine and fuel is still venting back into the top of the fuel tank. With the hose connected the tractor starts, but stops in 4 or 5 seconds. What do you think I have done wrong?
The bleed back to tank is blocked check the fittings are in the correct place but check all the way to the tank as where you undid it was good so it is after that.
Thank you. So fuel coming from the pump top cover is ok, but needs to flow unobstructed through the fittings on the injectors and back to the tank?
Thanks again! @@BundyBearsShed
@@wendellpayne7622 Yes nice clear flow.
@@BundyBearsShed I replaced hoses. Works fine. Thank you so much.
Great explanatory video Thanks. Can anyone please tell me what made the Fe 35 a pig 🐷 to cold start My neighbor had one when I was a kid and it was near new nice tractor once you got it running There was a modification done to the cylinder head that was a big improvement to the starting He bought a 35 X and never looked back lovely tractor
Timing would wear and originally the oil rings had too much tension on the bore and they would wear quickly.
I have a DPA pump that apparently was rebuilt before, but the larger cir-clip used for timing was moved, and is nowhere near where it should be. I have not opened up the pump yet, but am wondering if there is a way to orientate the clip back to the factory setting. The tractor with the pump is an Allis Chalmers 5050 which has a Fiat built engine. Thank you for the great videos!
no not unless you have an injector tester and can pump up the no1 outlet to find the point of injection. You could get the timing correct so you can see the letter on the head then when you have it apart move the clip around to line up with your scribe mark.
@@BundyBearsShed
Thanks for the response. I have 2 of these tractors both with the same pump, one of them would start hard, but ran well. I switched the pumps around and the hard starting followed the pump. The service manual shows to time the pump with a scribe mark on the timing gear case to a scribe line on the pump. There was no line on the rebuilt pump, so I went by the second method the service manual mentioned and that is to line up the letter on the pump head with the edge of the cir-clip, but the cir-clip is moved.
Neither tractor has a low compression issue, but the hard starting seems related to one of the pumps.
Thanks,
Steve
Can you please make a video on how to time this pump correctly with the machine? I took my pump off to clean it and I don't know how to time the pump correctly. Please!!!!
Have a look at the MF65 series I did it on that.
nice job,,,,in the test room, is the test done with a prototype injector? or what the engine has...how will we measure the pressure of the transfer pump? and how will we know if the hydraulic head has lost its performance..thanks
What this video is about is cleaning and resealing a pump that is working but leaking. It is not meant as a full pump overhaul and calibration just to reseal a leaky pump and clean out any gum from the diesel. I would love a test bench but just for my hobby it is not worth it.
th-cam.com/video/P6gQ0GJZFCA/w-d-xo.html@@BundyBearsShed
Fantastic video. I have a Lucas DPS pump which is leaking round the big seal between the hydraulic head and the main body. Can I just pull the hydraulic head off by removing the parts that screw through the body or do I have to do a complete strip down. Thanks
Complete as the metering valve etc is in the way.
@@BundyBearsShed Many thanks for the reply. Thats saved me from doing some potential damage trying to take a shortcut. I cant seem to find any videos on you tube for this pump although I have found a full set of instructions on the web from a UK military publication. Not quite the same as watching an expert though as I hadnt spotted the metering valve issue. assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/842142/20190730-AnnexB_Part4_AESP_2320-D-122-522-LAND_ROVER_90_110_127_ALL_VARIANTS-CHAPTER_11.pdf
Thanks Lance where you take the advance apart at 46:00 & you have one spring & then you remove the piston , is where they have -2 springs in mine & I had to use the vice to put it back together, when assembled that piston will not move, I held the assembly in the vice & used a ft long tapper punch & both hands to try & move it, where you used your finger. There was / is a smaller spring at the bottom of the piston which you can easily compress between the finger., so what the heck am I going to do ??
And what about the big snap ring , it looked about right , but close only counts in horse shoes.
Some time ago , looking through that triangle window I did loosen those 5/16 , 12point bolts & moved the plate a little to give me more fuel , don’t remember which way.
Yes, for sure there should be a washer each side of the 4 tubes.
And what about the banjo bolts, their little spring & ball, & that roll pin that holds the spring & ball in the banjo bolt ; with the roll pin pushed all the way in on that one & one washer under the tube none on top, & then 2 on top (next to the bolt head) on another, that would change the clearance distance between the banjo bolt & the fuel discharge hole + since 2 of them rattle, the springs are of different tensions .
I saw your vid , after I had posted earlier, of the pump with the 4 horizontal tubes , I will look at it , if I can find it again.
There is a free cav workshop manual download on my website in the technical section at www.queenslandtractorspares.com.au.
@@BundyBearsShed THANKS ! Got it . Look at it tomorrow. As I have said before, love that music you play . Forty yrs ago would have danced the night away . Thanks
Hi Lance, great vid! I got to 24:30, my cam advance screw (pin) is stuck... I've worne two high quality spanner and still there it is! Any suggestion to unscrew it?
Try a smack on the end to jarr it sometimes that works, that is why I used a big shifting spanner there as the smaller spanners the jaws will open and slip. The shifter needs to be in good condition with nice firm jaws though.
@@BundyBearsShed appreciated thanks Lance
Lance have don't know if it is possible to get a answer have MF 285 I'm getting fuel into the pump but not out the pump what may be the problem? Thank you
I would pop the top cover off the pump and see if the metering valve is sticky, there is also a small filter on the back where the fuel pipe goes in that might be worth a look.
bugger the small screen, glad I'm opening the pump up soon so sort out the no diesel to injector prob
Not too hard to do just take your time.
is there any reason for a cav ,DPA, 3 cyl pump not fire correctly on one cylinder
Usually it is an injector problem not a pump one if the other 2 are working fine.
The blasters handy.
Very handy indeed, the glass bead leaves a nice finish.
A few do the soda, mainly on panels I've saw.
Hi lance. My fe35 23c diesel pump is a lot different then this one. Could mine be wrong or is it they used all manor of different pumps. Mine is a red and grey 1958. Any advice will be appreciated. Thank you 😊
There were some that didnt have the same housing under neath and some only had one bolt but from my experience the insides were very similar.
Hi lance. It was the wrong pump. It was a bmc 1.5v industrial pump. Thanks for getting back to me. All the best Nik.
I have a JD 2040 with a 3432F700 CAV. Sat for months yet cranked and ran perfect 15min then died as if I turned off the fuel. Replaced filter assuming it was bad, have system bled well through upper bleed on pump. I get zero fuel out of pump. Even pulled it around yard and get nothing. Took off head and metering valve is not stuck. Could something be broken internally causing this condition?
Pull the end cap off and see if the vanes are turning, I have seen the shafts break.
Can I leave the pump on the engine and do this? It looks like I can remove the fuel inlet line and then unbolt the very back plate to see the vanes, correct? I understand what I’m trying to see but don’t want to do it in the engine if that’s going to cause an issue. Thanks for your help.
Does every cav advance have a little ball in the bolt holding it on? I never noticed one when I disassembled mine, but it may have fallen out without me noticing.
No not all of them.
Bundy Bears Shed awesome to hear, I’d say it didn’t have one then. Thanks a ton!
Bundy Bears Shed how much fuel should I expect to see coming out of my injection lines? I have them off at the pump and they don’t seem to be shooting much fuel out at all
Great video Bear, I'm trying to work what's wrong with my FE35 Diesel, hard to start but when running does not respond to the throttle, I have bled the system and it appears to be delivering diesel to all four injectors but at what pressure and flow rate ? Do I need to open an account to purchase an overhaul kit?
Not sure why it is not responding but check filters would be a good start as well as the air cleaner.
@@BundyBearsShed Thanks, will do
After one of the 12 point bolts in the head was not tightened properly it walked out during operation and broke that little pin on the governor plate that has the spring on it close to the shaft thats. Since welding back that pin and reconnect the engine goes into high acceleration and can only be controlled using the choke lever. What could be done to fix this behaviour. For land rover series 3 diesel 2.25 engine.
Find a used plate they will fit fine. You possibly have the top spring in the wrong hole too. There is a free manual download on my web site .
@@BundyBearsShed I will try to find a plate and replace it. I will also check out the manual. Thank you for the quality videos you continue to produce. And get well soon with that face injury. Stay safe.
Can you adjust the amound of fuel with this kind of pump
Yes by adjusting how far the rollers travel, you loosen the two little bolts that hold the rollers in.
The top of my one is leaking by the stopper what could cause it would you know
The O rings on the stopper shaft I would think.
Great video I have same pump for Massey Ferguson 1085 I m in Canada my tractor starts right way but on throttling rpm never goes up can you pls help me to resolve this issue , thanks
Possibly a sticky metering valve that only goes so far presuming you dont have a fuel block.
any tips on getting the pump head out ? mine is quite tight- stuck
I have had to use big multi grips and twist rather than pull. They can be quite tight.
@@BundyBearsShed ok thanks guess I need to buy bigger ones
There is a code number that tells you which holes the governor spring should go into, do you know where to find the code number?
on the cav download on my web site in the technical section.
@@BundyBearsShed Thanks Lance , Had a look at your earlier video where you explain its the 2nd last number on the name plate unfortunately my name plate is mostly illegible .
My head won't come off for shit. Trying to twist it back and forth with a big pipe wrench but no go.
You havent missed one of the screws in the back towards the engine block at all? They are usually fairly easy.
@@BundyBearsShed No, I finally got it off by clamping the head in the vise and using a soft mallet to tap the housing. I guess it was varnished in.
Good jop
Thankyou.
Thanks very much for your video's, just wondering how to remove the nut where the veins sit into on the front of the pump? Thanks
It is a left hand thread and I made a special socket for the job. There is a video on my channel on it possibly in the MF65 playlist but couldnt be sure now.
@@BundyBearsShed ok thanks mate, blessings
Do you sell that nut ?
No we dont but one from another pump would fit.
What do I do if my data plate is missing?
Look where the springs go when you pull the top off
👍👍
👍👍
BELLE POMPE DPA Cav ,quante ne ho
Revisionate sia in nord
Africa che a Firenze
Sono tuttora in attivita' oltre ai trattori ho clienti con Land Rover da 88 a 110 chiamati cancelli
Same pump and this works well.
At 28:00 you start talking about the importance of the exact replacement of the cer-clip , snap ring, but you never discuss what happens if it is off either way , & I have no idea what they did or whether they lined anything up.
My tractor is a 1989 Case 580 K with a 4 bt 3.9 L Cummins
The clip sets up the point of injection or at least a visual of that. I think in the MF65 Playlist I talk about that. The best videos I think I have done on these pumps in in the MF135 6 speed playlist, videos 14 and 15. I go in and explain more.
@@BundyBearsShed thanks again , I just watched 14&15 again to the umpteenth time , but I have no way of knowing whether those 2 guys that worked on my pump put the large snap ring back in the correct place or not & as I said I did jack up the fuel a little bit but when I look through that window there are no letters they are one the other side , when every thing else is set at #1 tdc
@@robertmintz63 Pump it up on an injector tester and that will tell you. MF65 playlist.
@@BundyBearsShed again thanks Lance, I will have to take it to a good shop for that .
I have searched high & low for your vid of the Lucas Cav with the 4 tubes in the horizontal , off the pump head , but I can’t find it , I for sure am no guru at this .
@@BundyBearsShed Good morning Lance , 8pm here . Thanks again Lance for the manual I have read it through , & can not understand how the positioning of the circlip ring makes any difference, when I look in the window there is a slight chisel type mark on the pump housing . The square end of the circlip has the outside corner 45ed off , that lower corner is just shy of a millimeter above it .
Then . The little notch in the plate that governs the distance that the injection rollers travel is centered in the big notch that has a line then an H just to its upper side & a line & an A to the bottom side .
The next problem I see is the 2 stage Automatic Start Retard Device . My housing & set up matches that on pg 10 , Except for the springs , they look more like the Heavy Duty Pump with Updated Drive Shaft shown on pgs 21 & 26 ! How can this be ?
Next the manual did not show anything about the banjo bolt (that hold the banjo tubes) put together , roll pin , spring ,or ball, or specification.
Will you rebuild mine?
No, I dont seem to have time now a days.
MF165
Same but 4 cylinder.
TEF pumps feeling lonely 😢😂
It will have to toughen up a bit, it is in the old fridge with some magnetos to talk to.
😂🤣😂
Useful video, only spoiled by occasional out of focus. This video is from the manufacturer and provides an authoritative narration; th-cam.com/video/kqDBMLB7jcY/w-d-xo.html
Have a look at the Massey Ferguson 135 6 speed playlist videos 14 and 15.
@@BundyBearsShed Will do. 👍