“The protection of the spirit of lolita fashion as a completely non-sexual form of feminine expression, safe and inclusive for asexual and underage persons, should always come first.” Can this be like the lolita pledge of allegiance??
All under 18s are "children." Period. "Corruption of a minor" is a FELONY. As a teacher, I am a manditory reporter and according to my training, just exposing a minor to even just suggestive images is a reportable offense. If they are going to allow 13-17 year olds into the group, they HAVE to be more strict about posts like this.
Thank you for also mentioning the asexual people in the community. The reason I like and wear the fashion is because I want people the think "Oh that's a cute outfit they got on" instead of "oh that's a sexy/hot/ext outfit they got on". That face gear thing horrifies me. I can't believe the mods let something so OBVIOUSLY A KINK ACCESSORY stand, let alone defend it. Honest everyone should just mass exodus CoF and go start a new group like... yikes
I'm pretty new to Lolita and an asexual as well and I was to a bit disturbed by that post when I was innocently searching up gothic coords for inspiration saw the whole thread and realized maybe this isn't the group for me after all. Definitely leaving it behind with no regrets.
I'm a lesbian, but I also like the fashion, because it's cute and elegant. I don't like that there are people who will sexualise it. I just wanna dress like a cute princess without perverts making it sexual. Yeah, that face gear should never have been allowed to be posted on there. The mods fucked up and were in the wrong. I don't use closet of frills, due to shit like that. I just stick to rufflechat and big sisters of lolita.
I think Sharon should be removed as a mod. Primarily because several things contradicts the rules and terms of service for the community. As a mod you're held to the standard of having to enforce those rules, and if you can't well that's not the job for you. The fact that this person openly says in a lot of their stuff at this is fetish gear and that they are for all intensive purposes of fetishist on their insta prove the point. As for censorship, when you are in a community you have to respect the community guidelines. You agree to those terms of services when you get an account or you join a community. The fact of the matter is the fact that Sharon doesn't think that teenagers are children, is really scary because while teenagers are developing into adults they still are underage and they still are children and anytime in a court of law you will end up subject to that. This is a nightmare.
@Lulu-P well they should be removed. If they can't follow the guidelines of their own Community while being a moderator then they need to get the f*** out. Mods are held to a much higher standard because they enforce the rules of the community. There should be no question especially because of the issue of minors.
Makes me think Sharon may not to be far away in age herself. We all know how at 18 or so we think we're so mature and we also thought well I could have handled that when I was 13 because I have always been so mature for my age. Only the young think that way and only when they are mature do they realise they weren't.
Hey the mods are a team, presumably Sharon is speaking for all the mods (they would have obviously stepped in if she weren't). Decisions aside this is no reason to dox the mod who was the face of the commenting.
@@puvithel Given that this mod is cool with minors and ace people getting fetish crap shoved at them, screw that. They can group effort fix this. Unless 'Sharon' is the sole voice of the group, it's suspicious that she seems to be the only mod saying something on it.
Having to be the face of a crappy desicion for a private Facebook group is no reason her real name should be posted here where it'll show up in Google searches and is not equivalent to supporting pedophilia. Tyler understands that, which is why she kept her name private. You should do the same.
I've lived the gothic life. I've lived the fetish life. I've lived the Lolita life. And they should always stay mutually exclusive when they cross the line or violate already established rules. Especially when you "claim" a piece/accessory is ok when it's clearly not. I'm with you here, Tyler. That face ring is not Lolita. And it, sure as hell, is not appropriate for kids. My daughter (14) is a Lolita and I should not have to explain fetish gear to her because some idiot doesn't understand the bare basics of actual Lolita fashion and forces her to be exposed to it without a care of the impact it will make on them.
That face ring is never lolita and frankly, not even gothic. It is purely fetish and as a goth who wants to make the leap into EGL, I have to keep the fetish stuff even if merely being a domme away from my EGL or goth stuff.
From what was described, that outfit didn’t sound lolita whatsoever. On top of that, they posted a picture with fetish gear in a forum that allows minors. The OP should have kept their picture the appropriate places, ie. their Instagram and other groups who are 18+ and allow fetish things. I’m not even going to get into the fact that they fetishize the wrong lolita because it’s only 8 in the morning. And Sharon needs to prioritize the fact that they are a mod of a Facebook group that includes minors instead of what they like. If they want to start their own nsfw group where they and OP can post fetish stuff, that’s their prerogative, but they need to keep it out of A. A fashion that already has problems with fetishization and safety of memebers and B. A fashion group that can include actual children who never consented to be shown fetish gear in the first place.
I think it could be considered a casual lolita outfit (very casual or lolita inspired, but not directly a lolita outfit. It also was decidedly more gothic with a heavy fetish/kink influence and that's just not suitable for a group with lots of minors, whether it's a lolita group or goth group etc. Closet of Frills wasn't the right community to post it in anyway.
amyinmyheart I completely agree. If they had posted it to their personal social media account like Instagram or Twitter, that would be one thing. But they posted it to a forum where fetishes are completely unwanted.
I just want to say that I HIGHLY APPRECIATE how you mentioned towards the end that lolita fashion should be "safe and inclusive for minors AND asexuals." As someone who is ace, I feel like we're often disregarded a bit too easily and people force things on us in an attempt to "fix" us or something, and your comment just felt really validating. So thank you for including us!
@@SqigglyHeart dude not all asexuals are puritans, okay. They're not children who don't understand sex and would be traumatized by it like a kid would. It's literally a sexual orientation that has to do with attraction to gender, It has zilch to do with sex, sex drive or sex repulsion. It's like shielding a straight dude from from seeing man abs lol
Sissies are pretty much universally despised. I’m in the kink community and some of the worst interactions I’ve had were with sissies. Just no concept of boundaries or consent or personal space at all. It doesn’t surprise me that they’re creeping on Lolitas as well. (That and sissification has transphobic and misogynistic themes, but that’s an entirely different conversation to be had.)
Anyway we can send her macaroons and whiskey? Just some thank you prizes for putting up with all this... I know I need a drink after hearing the story, but she had to read, research, analyze, and then regurgitate them back to use. Be brave Tyler
I honestly don't care if someone chooses to combine lolita and fetishwear in their personal style. But if you wouldn't wear bondage gear to your office job, you are capable of understanding what attire is considered appropriate varies from space to space. So why is it that you think the lolita community doesn't require the same courtesy? When you post fetish content to lolita communities not specifically designated as 18+ you're saying you think lolita fashion is inherently NSFW. You are sexualizing lolitas and forcing your kinks on them without their consent, all because you can't separate cute frilly dresses from DD/LG or the Nabokov book. Give the people you interact with online the same respect you would in the real world
I remember being too nervous to post a coord that leaned too Otome > Lolita in CoF back in the day because of how harsh they were deleting coords that are too casual - I can't believe this is an actual mod!? And if the vast majority of the responses are people uncomfortable with the post, why is it even a question of if you should keep it up or not???
COF originally was for casual coords. When it was new there were like 20 of us, and the purpose was the post coords where you try to add lolita items into every day wear. Like there were literal lolita blouse with jeans coords, and they were cute every day outfits with a splash of lolita. The original person who started it was really lovely, but the newer mod team yeeted her long ago over some drams. Seems as though the COF drama is coming full circle.
My two cents on this situation: Personally, I think we (as a community) should just do a mass exodus and make a new page that strictly prohibits fetish gear being used in coord pictures. For one, to show that this kind of fetish pushing enabling behaviour is NOT ON. And also because at this point, it's clear that the CoF mods just want to cater to their own kinks instead of giving this fashion the love and (most importantly) RESPECT it and it's members deserve. It's really sad that we should even have to make a new page where lolitas of all ages are safe, but CoF mods just can't be trusted with this anymore (at least for now). As a side-note, I don't interact with most of the lolita Facebook pages (except second-hand pages and pages that just update you on new releases) and now I'm really happy I never joined CoF.
Same. I was thinking of joining and then this came out... whoop glad I dodged that bullet. Make note of the mods of CoF, make a new group, spam advertise it in CoF because yes I'm that passive aggressive, ban or mute the CoF mods in the new group so they can't bitch
Lunar Muffin agreed. I think in future groups, there need to be checks into people coming in to make sure their motives in entering the group are for the right reasons and not to exploit community members.
I feel so bad for the minors that spoke up but were deleted by the mods. To have their voice invalidated like that in the face of actual harmful content in the name of not stirring the pot and getting things done is awful. Shame on that mod and I hope justice gets served.
Oh god i remember this post i was so shocked how everyone seemed to be ok with sex gear in lolita even saying it was "normal accessory in oldschool" yes someone commented that, i was personally too scared of being attacked to comment anything. Like goddamn you're not helping "lolita is a fetish" stereotype by buying coords in a sex shop. As someone for who lolita is safe space from sexualization of women that i felt overwhelmed by since i only started puberty i was so disgusted, i felt like someone spit on my face and said "fuck your safe space it's sexual now because i says so".
Me too. I hate being sexualized. It makes me feel icky and gross, like I wanna claw my skin off. Sissies were bad enough, but now it seems like lolita is being actively invaded by fetish and sexual themes and the people who are supposed to stop that (the mods) are doing worse than nothing, they're actively defending and supporting it. We live in a society that is already so hypersexualized that they play adds about lingerie and condoms in public areas, streaming sites, and even tv (can't say a curse word but thinly veiled sex innuendos are fine because what are priorities). I just want to wear fluffy dresses and drink tea out of teacups. The parts of my body I'm insecure about are because I feel like people WILL look at them sexually and I don't want that.
Pumpkin I think I remember seeing this post and being like “this isn’t lolita” but I *think* I still commented that it was cool (just to be nice), I didn’t even notice the fetish gear.. 😭😭 because I’m not expecting to see that in a lolita group! I’m a minor btw
@@vampiredraculaura Fetish gear aside, I want to point out, that its not helpful to comment that its cool, just to be nice. If you know its not Lolita, either don't comment or comment and be honest.
@@vampiredraculaura It happens, I have learned to not be 'too nice' myself. I have personally grown to understand it's a good idea to note that words do have weight, and what you say and who you say it to are important. No matter your age or what!
As someone who has survived sexual trauma, I had a massive change in what I wore after I had processed what happened. I went from wanting to look “hot and sexy” to being absolutely mortified of the idea, and that’s what has drawn me into Lolita. The idea that I can look alternative and beautiful yet, modest, allows me to express myself safely. Allowing kinksters into the community, while it might make the community “evolve” and “be more accepting”, it also undermines the idea of a safe space for MINORS (!), Sexual abuse victims, asexuals, and a general population of people who just.... doesn’t like the idea of being fetishized? I don’t see why the mods are catering to the vocal minority when it actively harms the majority
I am so disappointed in CoF....this was a complete disgrace and is not a good thing for a fashion that is already losing space on social media because he the exact reasons that Tyler stated. We really, REALLY have to speak up about this. Thank you, Tyler for being the first to do so.
This is soul crushing to hear about. I joined the Lolita community because I wanted to feel safe as I've been targeted in the past and I felt that the modest style and frills for days matched my own preferences perfectly. It took me a very long time to join, though, and that was because of the name. I realize we can't just change the name but things like this make me want to leave the community. Lately, I've kind of just put my own twist on Lolita (but realize it's not actually Lolita) because I'm so sick of dealing with the mix up and confusion. Anyways, thanks as always for reporting Tyler. :)
I'm so glad we have you keeping track of everything and collecting screenshots. By the time I heard things were going down comments were already being deleted.
I’m 12 rn and Ive been really really looking forward to joining groups that you have to be at least 13 to join and this,,,,, this makes me actually mad
thank you for this video. thank you for standing up for the minors in the community, and for doing the research to show the intent behind the coord in queetion. i hope the mods take your arguments to heart.
They still have sissies, and known fetishiests in the group if you know the names of them, go check the CoF members list. Thank you for doing this so quickly Tyler. We appreciate your efforts. KEEP THE COMMUNITY CLEAN, SAFE AND FUN.
That product photo (I'm pretty sure) is a photo portrait of half the DJ duo called Fecal Matter (who have very specific avant-garde makeup and fashion looks) stolen by the product site!
Yes! I was going to say that, since no-one else seemed to mention it. Their whole style is to look monstrous or alien. They're also very cool people, I've been lucky enough to meet them twice so far!
@@psychotophatcat I don't argue against those points, just think people might be interested! I liked seeing the makeup routine on Vogue's TH-cam channel. (UPD.: I thought it might be stolen bc sites like Wish steal photos all the time, you know?)
I knew something had gone down on COF, but missed the drama. Damn, the mod's response was really disappointing.Good moderation is so important on internet communities, and without it things can go down hill really fast. People can have whatever fetishes they want as long as they're consenting adult and not hurting anyone, but that doesn't mean I want to see it. That stuff is personal and doesn't need to be splashed all over the web - especially in specifically non sexual spaces. I love that lolita isn't sexual - as a woman, I find that empowering. It's dressing for yourself and no one else. Also, as someone who's ace - thanks, Tyler for keeping us in mind.
As someone who isn't active regularly in the lolita community ( my friends introduced me to lolita/ouji) I love the fashion regardless. However even I know that this is in NO WAY even close to a sub section of lolita fashion. If you have to admit its fetish its NOT lolita!! Lolita isn't a kink ita a fucking fashion. Takes 5 seconds to ask someone for advice. Its disgusting to see someone accept the kink that ruins the community badly, instead of protecting its members.
as a fetishist, i am deeply sorry for the trouble you guys go through. i don't watch your videos for fetish reasons, i really just think the fashion is fun to look at, and certainly too much skin covered to be fetishized, so it's really upsetting to see you lovely lolita fashionistas harassed. the number one rule of bdsm and fetish is consent and you guys don't give it, therefore you're being attacked by actual perverts. i'm so sorry for that.
I ALWAYS keep my kinks separated from lolita fashion. I don’t understand why it’s so god damn hard for some people. I guess I have self awareness and boundaries? It confuses me greatly. I legit think that they get turned on by invading j-fashion spaces and jerking off to the disgust they cause. Edit: I love the brand Fecal Matter but I’d never put the face strap in one of my coords.
I am so disappointed this happened. It’s been midterms at my college so I didn’t see it. I’m happy I’m in Daily- EGL so I have an alternative for now. I can’t believe that they let fetish wear on that! Also, Teenagers are minors!!
As a goth appreciator the s*xwear isn’t even 100% appropriate in all goth circles, there are goth minors too and homogenizing f*tishgear with goth is not totally accurate either. Literally all that’s required to be a goth is to enjoy the goth genres of music
I work in the medical industry as a coder. Per our own guidelines even a person who is between the ages of 18-21+1 day are considered children believe it or not.
Oh my god I am so glad you covered this. That post was such a dumpster fire. I saw it literally three minutes after it was originally posted and immediately thought "oh god no..."
Can we go on a crusade to get Sharon kicked as a mod? I'm honestly fuming that the post is still up. The silencing of concerned voices makes me mad. She shouldn't have authority power..
IIRC it is literally against the law for them to not moderate things 13 year olds see. Normalizing kinks and fetishes to children is literally grooming them to think it's 'okay'. For a while I thought I might have to join CoF to get into lolita fashion community, but I'm really glad I don't have to now, and I have plenty of reasons not to. I hope Sharon gets banned by the other mods, but it really sounds like they're just as bad. What is the new community going to be? An independent forum? A different facebook group?
To push the boundaries of goth, I'm going to start wearing only pink. Fashion does evolve through the pushing of boundaries, but then if you do that far enough, it just becomes a different style all together. Perhaps they would be happier in the nymphet subculture.
your reads are so funny i'm dying, you're like the sassiest talk show host ever while looking like a queen's portrait and I stan!!! Keep reporting the news, I don't know crap about lolita but the way you tell it makes it so interesting I want to learn anyway
IT WASN’T EVEN A GOOD OUTFIT. It was ugly as sin in every possible sense, even as a reformed mall goth. I also hate that the OP went on a rant about how the backlash was ACTUALLY about gay sex, implying not wanting to see fetish gear is somehow..... homophobic?
@@tinalec I finally found it. Search "Degenerate kinkster getting asspats in CoF" in RebeccaBlackTech. It's pretty bad. lol From the waist down, it's only somewhat lolita.
JFC. As I've been slowly joining the community Ive been doing my best to join all the main groups that I could though I avoided CoF on accident. I'm really checking glad that I did. I'll be staying out of there from now on until the mods have a serious change of heart and "Sharon" is no longer one of them. Absolutely disgusting.
Isn't it kind of a shitty thing to do to push boundaries? Like if someone says "don't touch me" and you touch them, that's pushing their boundaries right? And that's really shitty, and I think the same should go with fashion? If someone says "lolita is non sexual" and you go "let's bring more sex stuff into lolita" it's the same thing. And fashion evolving is a completely different thing, evolution isn't pushing boundaries, it's changing but staying within the boundaries.
Wow saw the post after the incident... was not expecting that to be what had happened... Im also surprise that tyler didn't mention that they try to continue their discussion on another post, specifically with a ero lolita post... that girl who posted the ero coord probably wasn't happy about this
What I would honestly like to know why I'm always here when I personally dont take part in this fashion? Could it be because of Tyler's personality and my smallest interest in the cute dresses?
I want to make the leap into elegant gothic lolita, but I am a 6'2" trans woman. Tyler's personality definitely is part of this and I admire from afar even though I am the Ridley of this fashion. For the longest time, too big
Same for me, Alessia. I do not wear the fashion, but _love_ the imaginative and beautiful aesthetic of it (my own style 'uniform' is mostly Thai harem pants, kurtas, headwraps and Birkenstocks...pretty far from Lolita). Through me though, my niece discovered Lolita and also fell in love with the fashion. So much so that she is starting to get truly serious about it. So I guess I'm now 'Lolita adjacent' 😊🎀
We shouldn't have to even draw the line at minors - I am one of many fully grown adults who is not comfortable with things like this, and I have to face my traumas every time something like this ambushes me. Personally, I'd like to enjoy an innocent fashion without reliving some of my worst nightmares and feeling violated. Not everyone is comfortable with seeing things that are inherently tied to kink - this story is ridiculous and I'm so disappointed in CoF.
As an asexual, Lolita appeals to me. If this crap was included I feel it's appeal float away. P.S. Can someone just make a Lolita group called something like 'Lolita the non sexual fashion' or "A Safe Lolita Group". If the name doesn't spell it out I am not sure what will.
Surprised screenshots of the other insta story she posted weren’t in here. OP responded to the commenter saying “as a minor I’m uncomfortable” with an ig story saying “think of the children !1!1! I feel so punk rock lmao”
COF has been a mess lately. Sure, there's still beautiful and legit lolita coords being posted, but it seems that more and more often dumpster fires are being set. TBH I think it may be time to abandon that group, and mark a new one as the go-to lolita fashion Facebook coord group.
I'm incredibly fustrated with how CoF handled this, I LIVE for Fecal Matter's products (the makers of the facial harness), its a really cool, edgy brand. But JESUS CHRIST that did NOT belong in a group with minors. Having a poofy skirt doesn't mean something is Lolita! It was such a mess
Wasn't the lolita in the book more... Nymphet? Idk that's how it struck when I read it. She did not wear lolita fashion... I don't get what people see other than the name?
I only heard about this 10 minutes ago?! Didn't even get a TH-cam bell message and I clicked the bell like...?! TH-cam get your shit together!!! I want to see tyler!!!😤😤😤 Also, this is both surprising and damaging for CoF. I have zero clue as to why all of a sudden, this invasive and destructive behavior and affront to the lolita community is being allowed to pass but, if time has taught us anything it's that if you put enough stock and love into something, someone with vile intentions will come to pollute and destroy the space you spent so much time and sweat into building. It's just....ugh, it hurts. Literally hurts. Now Closet of Frills can't be trusted to be a safe space for underage or really any lolitas at all and it is hard enough for us to find and build spaces away from the notion of being considered a fetish. It's just one more place that we may have to cancel and one more place we no longer have because of the predatory behaviors of some in the fetish communities. Meanwhile, the same predatory behaviors this mod has allowed to potentially kill this community can and will go elsewhere to be as problematic to their own in their own spaces while lolitas, once again, struggle to build yet another home.
Let it be known that if Closet of Frills should fall, it won't be because of Dickface (even though they'll definitely claim credit), it will be because of its mod team that is too toothless to stand for anything.
My friend told me about this yesterday 🤢🤢 I was so pissed off the mods didn’t do anything but silence the people that were clearly uncomfortable with it. I’ve considered joining these massive comms but I think I’ll just stick with my local lolita friend group instead...
I so very nearly commented on that image but decided to watch the dumpster fire from afar. Honestly best decision, this went from trash burning to nuking a mountain and I definitely feel better that I stood far enough away to only experience the fallout from LWLN. I think the other mods need to seriously discuss removing this persons mod status, their response was so inappropriate and childish.
“The protection of the spirit of lolita fashion as a completely non-sexual form of feminine expression, safe and inclusive for asexual and underage persons, should always come first.”
Can this be like the lolita pledge of allegiance??
"I pledge allegiance to the lace..."
Yes please!! Such a succinct expression of what we should stand for.
Yes thank you.
And that's a pledge I'll stand for
All in favour of this pledge, say aye!
Me: Aye x 100!
All under 18s are "children." Period. "Corruption of a minor" is a FELONY. As a teacher, I am a manditory reporter and according to my training, just exposing a minor to even just suggestive images is a reportable offense. If they are going to allow 13-17 year olds into the group, they HAVE to be more strict about posts like this.
I wish I could.link tiktoks because there is a great song that's sung to if.your happy and you know it and it goes "if you're not 18 then you're 12"
@@Tenareful vm.tiktok.com/gYnCny/
Here u go
I'm 27 and I don't want to see photos like this.
I'm 25 and I'd rather not see images like that. lol
Thank you for also mentioning the asexual people in the community. The reason I like and wear the fashion is because I want people the think "Oh that's a cute outfit they got on" instead of "oh that's a sexy/hot/ext outfit they got on". That face gear thing horrifies me. I can't believe the mods let something so OBVIOUSLY A KINK ACCESSORY stand, let alone defend it. Honest everyone should just mass exodus CoF and go start a new group like... yikes
I'm pretty new to Lolita and an asexual as well and I was to a bit disturbed by that post when I was innocently searching up gothic coords for inspiration saw the whole thread and realized maybe this isn't the group for me after all. Definitely leaving it behind with no regrets.
psychotophatcat they locked daily egl though because of some 4chan drama. Is it unlocked?
I'm a lesbian, but I also like the fashion, because it's cute and elegant. I don't like that there are people who will sexualise it. I just wanna dress like a cute princess without perverts making it sexual. Yeah, that face gear should never have been allowed to be posted on there. The mods fucked up and were in the wrong. I don't use closet of frills, due to shit like that. I just stick to rufflechat and big sisters of lolita.
@@imagineitqll I can't find it either. I'd really like to join that group.
I think Sharon should be removed as a mod. Primarily because several things contradicts the rules and terms of service for the community. As a mod you're held to the standard of having to enforce those rules, and if you can't well that's not the job for you. The fact that this person openly says in a lot of their stuff at this is fetish gear and that they are for all intensive purposes of fetishist on their insta prove the point. As for censorship, when you are in a community you have to respect the community guidelines. You agree to those terms of services when you get an account or you join a community. The fact of the matter is the fact that Sharon doesn't think that teenagers are children, is really scary because while teenagers are developing into adults they still are underage and they still are children and anytime in a court of law you will end up subject to that. This is a nightmare.
@Lulu-P well they should be removed. If they can't follow the guidelines of their own Community while being a moderator then they need to get the f*** out. Mods are held to a much higher standard because they enforce the rules of the community. There should be no question especially because of the issue of minors.
Makes me think Sharon may not to be far away in age herself. We all know how at 18 or so we think we're so mature and we also thought well I could have handled that when I was 13 because I have always been so mature for my age. Only the young think that way and only when they are mature do they realise they weren't.
Hey the mods are a team, presumably Sharon is speaking for all the mods (they would have obviously stepped in if she weren't). Decisions aside this is no reason to dox the mod who was the face of the commenting.
@@puvithel Given that this mod is cool with minors and ace people getting fetish crap shoved at them, screw that. They can group effort fix this. Unless 'Sharon' is the sole voice of the group, it's suspicious that she seems to be the only mod saying something on it.
Having to be the face of a crappy desicion for a private Facebook group is no reason her real name should be posted here where it'll show up in Google searches and is not equivalent to supporting pedophilia. Tyler understands that, which is why she kept her name private. You should do the same.
I've lived the gothic life. I've lived the fetish life. I've lived the Lolita life. And they should always stay mutually exclusive when they cross the line or violate already established rules. Especially when you "claim" a piece/accessory is ok when it's clearly not. I'm with you here, Tyler. That face ring is not Lolita. And it, sure as hell, is not appropriate for kids. My daughter (14) is a Lolita and I should not have to explain fetish gear to her because some idiot doesn't understand the bare basics of actual Lolita fashion and forces her to be exposed to it without a care of the impact it will make on them.
That face ring is never lolita and frankly, not even gothic. It is purely fetish and as a goth who wants to make the leap into EGL, I have to keep the fetish stuff even if merely being a domme away from my EGL or goth stuff.
As an Ace who witnessed the shit storm firsthand, I just wanted to thank you for speaking up for us in this vid. The mods dropped the ball big time.
From what was described, that outfit didn’t sound lolita whatsoever. On top of that, they posted a picture with fetish gear in a forum that allows minors. The OP should have kept their picture the appropriate places, ie. their Instagram and other groups who are 18+ and allow fetish things. I’m not even going to get into the fact that they fetishize the wrong lolita because it’s only 8 in the morning.
And Sharon needs to prioritize the fact that they are a mod of a Facebook group that includes minors instead of what they like. If they want to start their own nsfw group where they and OP can post fetish stuff, that’s their prerogative, but they need to keep it out of A. A fashion that already has problems with fetishization and safety of memebers and B. A fashion group that can include actual children who never consented to be shown fetish gear in the first place.
I think it could be considered a casual lolita outfit (very casual or lolita inspired, but not directly a lolita outfit. It also was decidedly more gothic with a heavy fetish/kink influence and that's just not suitable for a group with lots of minors, whether it's a lolita group or goth group etc. Closet of Frills wasn't the right community to post it in anyway.
amyinmyheart I completely agree. If they had posted it to their personal social media account like Instagram or Twitter, that would be one thing. But they posted it to a forum where fetishes are completely unwanted.
they were only wearing a puffy skirt and a btssb giant bow .-. having a puffy skirt doesnt make it lolita...
I just want to say that I HIGHLY APPRECIATE how you mentioned towards the end that lolita fashion should be "safe and inclusive for minors AND asexuals." As someone who is ace, I feel like we're often disregarded a bit too easily and people force things on us in an attempt to "fix" us or something, and your comment just felt really validating. So thank you for including us!
THANK YOU
Annnnnnd people who find explicit sexual imagery triggering
what the hell are you talking about, being sex repulsed isn't unique to asexuals. Stop giving our community a bad name.
@@squashedshibber2684 i hope you didn't pull your back with that stretch.
@@SqigglyHeart dude not all asexuals are puritans, okay. They're not children who don't understand sex and would be traumatized by it like a kid would. It's literally a sexual orientation that has to do with attraction to gender, It has zilch to do with sex, sex drive or sex repulsion. It's like shielding a straight dude from from seeing man abs lol
Good god
You can be into lolita AND kink
BUT NOT TOGETHER IN A PLACE WITHOT FULL CONSENT
Yep. You'd think that was common knowledge. But sadly, sissies, lolita fetishisers and enablers exist.
Sissies are pretty much universally despised. I’m in the kink community and some of the worst interactions I’ve had were with sissies. Just no concept of boundaries or consent or personal space at all. It doesn’t surprise me that they’re creeping on Lolitas as well.
(That and sissification has transphobic and misogynistic themes, but that’s an entirely different conversation to be had.)
@@bsd7013 Honestly same, I’m sure there are decent sissies out there buuuuut
YES.YES.YES.
Tyler: lolita warrior and protector of our community
Anyway we can send her macaroons and whiskey? Just some thank you prizes for putting up with all this...
I know I need a drink after hearing the story, but she had to read, research, analyze, and then regurgitate them back to use.
Be brave Tyler
macaroon in one hand, parasol in the other
I honestly don't care if someone chooses to combine lolita and fetishwear in their personal style. But if you wouldn't wear bondage gear to your office job, you are capable of understanding what attire is considered appropriate varies from space to space. So why is it that you think the lolita community doesn't require the same courtesy?
When you post fetish content to lolita communities not specifically designated as 18+ you're saying you think lolita fashion is inherently NSFW. You are sexualizing lolitas and forcing your kinks on them without their consent, all because you can't separate cute frilly dresses from DD/LG or the Nabokov book. Give the people you interact with online the same respect you would in the real world
THANK YOU SOMEONE WITH SENSE
I remember being too nervous to post a coord that leaned too Otome > Lolita in CoF back in the day because of how harsh they were deleting coords that are too casual - I can't believe this is an actual mod!? And if the vast majority of the responses are people uncomfortable with the post, why is it even a question of if you should keep it up or not???
COF originally was for casual coords. When it was new there were like 20 of us, and the purpose was the post coords where you try to add lolita items into every day wear. Like there were literal lolita blouse with jeans coords, and they were cute every day outfits with a splash of lolita. The original person who started it was really lovely, but the newer mod team yeeted her long ago over some drams. Seems as though the COF drama is coming full circle.
My two cents on this situation: Personally, I think we (as a community) should just do a mass exodus and make a new page that strictly prohibits fetish gear being used in coord pictures. For one, to show that this kind of fetish pushing enabling behaviour is NOT ON. And also because at this point, it's clear that the CoF mods just want to cater to their own kinks instead of giving this fashion the love and (most importantly) RESPECT it and it's members deserve. It's really sad that we should even have to make a new page where lolitas of all ages are safe, but CoF mods just can't be trusted with this anymore (at least for now). As a side-note, I don't interact with most of the lolita Facebook pages (except second-hand pages and pages that just update you on new releases) and now I'm really happy I never joined CoF.
Check out Daily EGL, it was set up for that reason.
Same. I was thinking of joining and then this came out... whoop glad I dodged that bullet.
Make note of the mods of CoF, make a new group, spam advertise it in CoF because yes I'm that passive aggressive, ban or mute the CoF mods in the new group so they can't bitch
Lunar Muffin agreed. I think in future groups, there need to be checks into people coming in to make sure their motives in entering the group are for the right reasons and not to exploit community members.
Daily EGL is sooooo swamped with entry requests after this cluster frick. It looks like it will take several weeks to get everyone vetted.
Seconding Daily-EGL! I really appreciate the vetting process, it feels like a much safer space
I feel so bad for the minors that spoke up but were deleted by the mods. To have their voice invalidated like that in the face of actual harmful content in the name of not stirring the pot and getting things done is awful. Shame on that mod and I hope justice gets served.
Oh god i remember this post i was so shocked how everyone seemed to be ok with sex gear in lolita even saying it was "normal accessory in oldschool" yes someone commented that, i was personally too scared of being attacked to comment anything.
Like goddamn you're not helping "lolita is a fetish" stereotype by buying coords in a sex shop.
As someone for who lolita is safe space from sexualization of women that i felt overwhelmed by since i only started puberty i was so disgusted, i felt like someone spit on my face and said "fuck your safe space it's sexual now because i says so".
Me too. I hate being sexualized. It makes me feel icky and gross, like I wanna claw my skin off. Sissies were bad enough, but now it seems like lolita is being actively invaded by fetish and sexual themes and the people who are supposed to stop that (the mods) are doing worse than nothing, they're actively defending and supporting it. We live in a society that is already so hypersexualized that they play adds about lingerie and condoms in public areas, streaming sites, and even tv (can't say a curse word but thinly veiled sex innuendos are fine because what are priorities).
I just want to wear fluffy dresses and drink tea out of teacups. The parts of my body I'm insecure about are because I feel like people WILL look at them sexually and I don't want that.
Pumpkin I think I remember seeing this post and being like “this isn’t lolita” but I *think* I still commented that it was cool (just to be nice), I didn’t even notice the fetish gear.. 😭😭 because I’m not expecting to see that in a lolita group! I’m a minor btw
@@vampiredraculaura Fetish gear aside, I want to point out, that its not helpful to comment that its cool, just to be nice. If you know its not Lolita, either don't comment or comment and be honest.
SomeSeal yeah I agree, I’m not really sure why I did. I am too nice sometimes
@@vampiredraculaura It happens, I have learned to not be 'too nice' myself.
I have personally grown to understand it's a good idea to note that words do have weight, and what you say and who you say it to are important. No matter your age or what!
OP posting fetishwear where minors can see it is illegal in some countries
As someone who has survived sexual trauma, I had a massive change in what I wore after I had processed what happened. I went from wanting to look “hot and sexy” to being absolutely mortified of the idea, and that’s what has drawn me into Lolita. The idea that I can look alternative and beautiful yet, modest, allows me to express myself safely. Allowing kinksters into the community, while it might make the community “evolve” and “be more accepting”, it also undermines the idea of a safe space for MINORS (!), Sexual abuse victims, asexuals, and a general population of people who just.... doesn’t like the idea of being fetishized? I don’t see why the mods are catering to the vocal minority when it actively harms the majority
I am so disappointed in CoF....this was a complete disgrace and is not a good thing for a fashion that is already losing space on social media because he the exact reasons that Tyler stated. We really, REALLY have to speak up about this. Thank you, Tyler for being the first to do so.
Lor and Tyler's friendship gives me life ☺
Right?! I like how mad Tyler was when she told those people to keep Lor’s name out of their mouthZ
So closet of frills is canceled, where are we migrating ladies
@@oldaccount315 Daily-EGL is a good replacement! The mods are lovely there as well
The Sisters of Mercy reference had me rolling. This video says everything perfectly, thank you. 👏
When I saw that thread, I kept going “it’s only a matter of time before this is on lwln” lol
Yess I was actually one of the minors that commented my discomfort!! (Not the exact one she showed) In only 14 btw!!
This is soul crushing to hear about. I joined the Lolita community because I wanted to feel safe as I've been targeted in the past and I felt that the modest style and frills for days matched my own preferences perfectly. It took me a very long time to join, though, and that was because of the name. I realize we can't just change the name but things like this make me want to leave the community. Lately, I've kind of just put my own twist on Lolita (but realize it's not actually Lolita) because I'm so sick of dealing with the mix up and confusion. Anyways, thanks as always for reporting Tyler. :)
@J C Yeah, I feel it would be too difficult to change at this point.
I was just thinking about getting my morning tea, tyler always here to provide. 🎀
I'm so glad we have you keeping track of everything and collecting screenshots. By the time I heard things were going down comments were already being deleted.
Two videos in a week? We are BLESSED by our salty queen!
The angrier Tyler gets, the closer she gets to a 90 degree angle
I’m 12 rn and Ive been really really looking forward to joining groups that you have to be at least 13 to join and this,,,,, this makes me actually mad
Good morning to my poor eyes. And i guess im adding alcohol to my coffee this morning.
Smart move... I suggest Bailey's as creamer...no one asks questions
This is why I don't partake in any community, the mods are usually shady af, I feel like the op probably knows the mod.
Tinfoil hat theory: OP is dating one of the mods.
Nazareth okay but highly suggest the groups “Forget Mana, I’m Telling Tyler” and “sounds like something a sissy would say” bc they keep it real
@@IceQueen975 I was kinda thinking that they have to at least be friends or something too. 😂
This is art. I don’t know what else to say about these videos.
I like how you are angrily offering us a bottle of alcohol in the thumbnail
Just here to say that I appreciated the Sisters of Mercy reference 10/10
PRAISE BE TO TYLER, SAVIOR OF US ALL!
Guys, switch from CoF and check out Daily EGL. It's what CoF should be.
thank you for this video. thank you for standing up for the minors in the community, and for doing the research to show the intent behind the coord in queetion. i hope the mods take your arguments to heart.
They still have sissies, and known fetishiests in the group if you know the names of them, go check the CoF members list. Thank you for doing this so quickly Tyler. We appreciate your efforts. KEEP THE COMMUNITY CLEAN, SAFE AND FUN.
I joined the group literally the day before this video was posted... 🎶Did a full 180...🎶
That product photo (I'm pretty sure) is a photo portrait of half the DJ duo called Fecal Matter (who have very specific avant-garde makeup and fashion looks) stolen by the product site!
Yes! I was going to say that, since no-one else seemed to mention it. Their whole style is to look monstrous or alien. They're also very cool people, I've been lucky enough to meet them twice so far!
@@psychotophatcat I don't argue against those points, just think people might be interested! I liked seeing the makeup routine on Vogue's TH-cam channel.
(UPD.: I thought it might be stolen bc sites like Wish steal photos all the time, you know?)
I have never reacted so quickly to a youtube notification before
I knew something had gone down on COF, but missed the drama. Damn, the mod's response was really disappointing.Good moderation is so important on internet communities, and without it things can go down hill really fast. People can have whatever fetishes they want as long as they're consenting adult and not hurting anyone, but that doesn't mean I want to see it. That stuff is personal and doesn't need to be splashed all over the web - especially in specifically non sexual spaces. I love that lolita isn't sexual - as a woman, I find that empowering. It's dressing for yourself and no one else. Also, as someone who's ace - thanks, Tyler for keeping us in mind.
As someone who isn't active regularly in the lolita community ( my friends introduced me to lolita/ouji) I love the fashion regardless. However even I know that this is in NO WAY even close to a sub section of lolita fashion. If you have to admit its fetish its NOT lolita!! Lolita isn't a kink ita a fucking fashion. Takes 5 seconds to ask someone for advice. Its disgusting to see someone accept the kink that ruins the community badly, instead of protecting its members.
Dear lord i think my immune system just attacked my body so i would'nt survive seeing this... 🤦🏻♀️
Even adults can find sexually explicit material triggering! Unless a space is designated NSFW-friendly, NSFW material should be kept out.
I’m here 28 secs after this launched?!
That’s gotta be a record
as a fetishist, i am deeply sorry for the trouble you guys go through. i don't watch your videos for fetish reasons, i really just think the fashion is fun to look at, and certainly too much skin covered to be fetishized, so it's really upsetting to see you lovely lolita fashionistas harassed. the number one rule of bdsm and fetish is consent and you guys don't give it, therefore you're being attacked by actual perverts. i'm so sorry for that.
Poor Lor, she is so nice she is having her name abused by crazy people
and frack thoroughly in the direction of off.....*chef's kiss*
I ALWAYS keep my kinks separated from lolita fashion. I don’t understand why it’s so god damn hard for some people. I guess I have self awareness and boundaries? It confuses me greatly. I legit think that they get turned on by invading j-fashion spaces and jerking off to the disgust they cause.
Edit: I love the brand Fecal Matter but I’d never put the face strap in one of my coords.
I am so disappointed this happened. It’s been midterms at my college so I didn’t see it. I’m happy I’m in Daily- EGL so I have an alternative for now. I can’t believe that they let fetish wear on that! Also, Teenagers are minors!!
As a goth appreciator the s*xwear isn’t even 100% appropriate in all goth circles, there are goth minors too and homogenizing f*tishgear with goth is not totally accurate either. Literally all that’s required to be a goth is to enjoy the goth genres of music
Tyler, I needed this. Thank you.
I work in the medical industry as a coder. Per our own guidelines even a person who is between the ages of 18-21+1 day are considered children believe it or not.
Oh my god I am so glad you covered this. That post was such a dumpster fire. I saw it literally three minutes after it was originally posted and immediately thought "oh god no..."
Can we go on a crusade to get Sharon kicked as a mod? I'm honestly fuming that the post is still up. The silencing of concerned voices makes me mad. She shouldn't have authority power..
The comparison of intelligence to a virtual paper clip was EVERYTHING
Oh man I remember browsing and seeing this choord and said “ew” and moved on. Crazy to hear the whole story thanks for reporting Tyler!
IIRC it is literally against the law for them to not moderate things 13 year olds see. Normalizing kinks and fetishes to children is literally grooming them to think it's 'okay'.
For a while I thought I might have to join CoF to get into lolita fashion community, but I'm really glad I don't have to now, and I have plenty of reasons not to.
I hope Sharon gets banned by the other mods, but it really sounds like they're just as bad.
What is the new community going to be? An independent forum? A different facebook group?
There's one on Facebook called Daily-EGL
Amen, Tyler! As an ace minor, things that are sexual exposed to me out of the blue makes me very uncomfortable.
To push the boundaries of goth, I'm going to start wearing only pink. Fashion does evolve through the pushing of boundaries, but then if you do that far enough, it just becomes a different style all together. Perhaps they would be happier in the nymphet subculture.
your reads are so funny i'm dying, you're like the sassiest talk show host ever while looking like a queen's portrait and I stan!!! Keep reporting the news, I don't know crap about lolita but the way you tell it makes it so interesting I want to learn anyway
IT WASN’T EVEN A GOOD OUTFIT. It was ugly as sin in every possible sense, even as a reformed mall goth.
I also hate that the OP went on a rant about how the backlash was ACTUALLY about gay sex, implying not wanting to see fetish gear is somehow..... homophobic?
Emma M. i’m really curious about what this outfit looks like now
tinalec You can find it in the RebeccaBlackTech archives in the deleted COF thread, I think RC: Uncensored has a post up about it too.
@@tinalec I finally found it. Search "Degenerate kinkster getting asspats in CoF" in RebeccaBlackTech. It's pretty bad. lol From the waist down, it's only somewhat lolita.
JFC. As I've been slowly joining the community Ive been doing my best to join all the main groups that I could though I avoided CoF on accident. I'm really checking glad that I did. I'll be staying out of there from now on until the mods have a serious change of heart and "Sharon" is no longer one of them. Absolutely disgusting.
I saw nin-chan and knew shit was about to go down.
You know she’s serious when she says “fuck” and not “frack”
Sisters of Mercy reference wins everything.
Isn't it kind of a shitty thing to do to push boundaries? Like if someone says "don't touch me" and you touch them, that's pushing their boundaries right? And that's really shitty, and I think the same should go with fashion? If someone says "lolita is non sexual" and you go "let's bring more sex stuff into lolita" it's the same thing. And fashion evolving is a completely different thing, evolution isn't pushing boundaries, it's changing but staying within the boundaries.
That mod should be kicked out of the group. 👏👏👏
Wow saw the post after the incident... was not expecting that to be what had happened... Im also surprise that tyler didn't mention that they try to continue their discussion on another post, specifically with a ero lolita post... that girl who posted the ero coord probably wasn't happy about this
@@psychotophatcat I'm aware... they as in commenters not OP ... I should have been more clear... thank you for giving me a better picture 🙂
@@psychotophatcat oh not at all... your all good 🙂
Omg i lost it at the Replica reference.
Keep up the good fight against the idiocy of Veronicas and Jessies Grays and their slimy protectors
What I would honestly like to know why I'm always here when I personally dont take part in this fashion? Could it be because of Tyler's personality and my smallest interest in the cute dresses?
Same! And for the salt and spot-on analyses🍵
I want to make the leap into elegant gothic lolita, but I am a 6'2" trans woman. Tyler's personality definitely is part of this and I admire from afar even though I am the Ridley of this fashion. For the longest time, too big
Same for me, Alessia. I do not wear the fashion, but _love_ the imaginative and beautiful aesthetic of it (my own style 'uniform' is mostly Thai harem pants, kurtas, headwraps and Birkenstocks...pretty far from Lolita). Through me though, my niece discovered Lolita and also fell in love with the fashion. So much so that she is starting to get truly serious about it. So I guess I'm now 'Lolita adjacent' 😊🎀
Thank u for saying that fashion harnesses aren’t the same as full on fetish gear! I hate that people assume they’re equally sexual/non-sexual.
We shouldn't have to even draw the line at minors - I am one of many fully grown adults who is not comfortable with things like this, and I have to face my traumas every time something like this ambushes me. Personally, I'd like to enjoy an innocent fashion without reliving some of my worst nightmares and feeling violated. Not everyone is comfortable with seeing things that are inherently tied to kink - this story is ridiculous and I'm so disappointed in CoF.
As an asexual, Lolita appeals to me. If this crap was included I feel it's appeal float away. P.S. Can someone just make a Lolita group called something like 'Lolita the non sexual fashion' or "A Safe Lolita Group". If the name doesn't spell it out I am not sure what will.
Please love yourself enough to consume better quality vodka than Smirnoff.
I'm gonna use that Loaf of bread ramble now. Thanks
Surprised screenshots of the other insta story she posted weren’t in here. OP responded to the commenter saying “as a minor I’m uncomfortable” with an ig story saying “think of the children !1!1! I feel so punk rock lmao”
oh the salt. so much salt in the morning! omg i love it
Same
COF has been a mess lately. Sure, there's still beautiful and legit lolita coords being posted, but it seems that more and more often dumpster fires are being set. TBH I think it may be time to abandon that group, and mark a new one as the go-to lolita fashion Facebook coord group.
I saw a tiny mini picture of Nana Kitade on the GLB cover!!!!
Thank you.
I'm incredibly fustrated with how CoF handled this, I LIVE for Fecal Matter's products (the makers of the facial harness), its a really cool, edgy brand.
But JESUS CHRIST that did NOT belong in a group with minors. Having a poofy skirt doesn't mean something is Lolita! It was such a mess
Well that was certainly a nightmare to sit through. I'm gonna go drown myself in the nearest bottle of Jameson.
Not even halfway through the video, and it's still getting worse.
HOW DOES IT KEEP GETTING WORSE???
Can we please just YEET the mods
Wow , just love the self restraint you have.... but seriously good job.
Tyler for president!! Slow clap. . . .
Wasn't the lolita in the book more... Nymphet? Idk that's how it struck when I read it. She did not wear lolita fashion... I don't get what people see other than the name?
I only heard about this 10 minutes ago?! Didn't even get a TH-cam bell message and I clicked the bell like...?! TH-cam get your shit together!!! I want to see tyler!!!😤😤😤
Also, this is both surprising and damaging for CoF. I have zero clue as to why all of a sudden, this invasive and destructive behavior and affront to the lolita community is being allowed to pass but, if time has taught us anything it's that if you put enough stock and love into something, someone with vile intentions will come to pollute and destroy the space you spent so much time and sweat into building. It's just....ugh, it hurts. Literally hurts. Now Closet of Frills can't be trusted to be a safe space for underage or really any lolitas at all and it is hard enough for us to find and build spaces away from the notion of being considered a fetish. It's just one more place that we may have to cancel and one more place we no longer have because of the predatory behaviors of some in the fetish communities. Meanwhile, the same predatory behaviors this mod has allowed to potentially kill this community can and will go elsewhere to be as problematic to their own in their own spaces while lolitas, once again, struggle to build yet another home.
Let it be known that if Closet of Frills should fall, it won't be because of Dickface (even though they'll definitely claim credit), it will be because of its mod team that is too toothless to stand for anything.
Oh my god the second I saw this coord on cof I KNEW THIS VIDEO WAS COMING
Don't bother calling it a coord
Yeah, goths tend not to wear full-blown fetish gear in all age spaces so leave the goths out of this too.
🙌🙌🙌 thank you!!
Dear lord.
Can we seriously just stop trying to push fetish into Lolita? It’s honestly getting tiring.
I agree
My friend told me about this yesterday 🤢🤢 I was so pissed off the mods didn’t do anything but silence the people that were clearly uncomfortable with it.
I’ve considered joining these massive comms but I think I’ll just stick with my local lolita friend group instead...
As a goth and a lolita, I love you and I LOVE this. Sisters of Mercy reference yessss🖤🖤🖤
Man alive- keep the the kinks away from my fluffy dresses *asexual rage*
Either that mod needs to be kicked or there should be a mass exodus from the page, perhaps to a new page that actually upholds the spirit of lolita
I so very nearly commented on that image but decided to watch the dumpster fire from afar. Honestly best decision, this went from trash burning to nuking a mountain and I definitely feel better that I stood far enough away to only experience the fallout from LWLN. I think the other mods need to seriously discuss removing this persons mod status, their response was so inappropriate and childish.