I hear about the uniqueness of the mission structure, but having played it all the way through, I’m not sure what’s unique about it. If you’re talking about objective based missions, plenty of games have that. Or if you’re talking about interconnected levels with backtracking, Metroid Prime does that. Perhaps you can explain it to me? I’d love to hear it.
7:52 I don't think that's an oversight. Many enemies will have a final desperation attack once they lose their health so that's probably why you can't instantly run over them
I dunno, some of these weapon complaints don't make sense, like the allegedly slow rate of fire. The time between shots seems just as quick as any other comparable weapon in other FPSes.
I always though Quake II's weapons were amazing. They all have their strengths and weaknesses - like in Doom Eternal, but he thinks its a bad thing that he can't just use the same 3 weapons 90% of the time like in Quake I. I always found Quake I's weapons to be flawed because you'll just be using the ssg, sng, and rocket launcher almost the entire game since all of the other guns are just lesser versions of the main 3, besides the thunderbolt, which is your BFG. So in Quake I you actually only have 3 weapons - in brutal contrast to Quake II having 7 weapons you use regularly.
Bind your weapons to keys, don't use scroll wheel Arm grenades before rushing corner Toggle "Always run" to true Don't camp around corners. Get in, shoot enemies in the face as fast as u can while dogging their attracts and game will turn into fast paced shooter
Feel like people hate Quake 2 just because it’s not Quake 1. Every argument I’ve heard on this topic is always: “Quake 2 sucks!” “But Quake was good” “Quake 2 is boring” “But Quake is so much fun!”
@@Argameus What did you like about Quake 4? I personally found it to be a slog when I played through it once in about 2015 or so, but I'm curious what you found enjoyable that I just didn't grasp at all.
@@ScarletKobold I did not love it but Quake 2 was truly awful in comparison. I played it fresh off Doom 3 and appreciated the few improvements it made to the idtech 4 engine. Both overstay their welcome though.
The remaster fixes a lot of the problems: - The ETF rifle finally feels good to use, hits enemies for a change, unlike in ground zero - Beta Class Gladiators no longer have 1700 health, which was literally more than the huge guy on treads. They do less damage too. Still tougher than regular Gladiators of course, but much more reasonable - Turrets are soft now, they die to a single rocket or rail. They also don't trace as hard There are several other balance adjustments that also affect the main game. The Jorg is much tougher for example, the Railgun does (I think) 100 damage rather than the previous 150, Berserkers are slightly tougher (in addition to the extra new attack they have) and Brains are extremely dangerous now, even worse than they were in The Reckoning. Which makes sense, given how slow they move - they now need to be approached with extreme caution.
Pity this comment is so low, it's exactly everything I was about to say. The Bethesda remaster fixes quite a lot of stuff, including the janky movement (which was iirc because of low precision on the position and velocity vectors) and makes some of the enemies in the expansions way less bullcrap. The new expansion is also really good, and works hard to put you in unique and challenging situations.
@@ingolifs yeah! I even played Q2 deathmatch for the first time in my life thanks to this remaster. Gotta say it's not that different from q3a at all, barring the slightly different weapon selection
9:02 Yes, and people with fast reflexes strafejump into the gunner before it could even react and throw it into the pain state with SSG shot right into his face, and after he get up from his knees, SSG already reloaded and you just finish him off. Simple. Never had a problem with this guys.
@@DinnerForkTongue Not at all. Unless you watch any of the background gameplay, I guess... This video is kinda frustrating - it's one thing to critique something, it's another to say stuff like "the grenades are useless and arm way too slowly", and then later showing gameplay of standing out in the open, casually pulling one out to use it and missing by a mile cause surprise, enemies might shoot you and force you to evade.
I love Quake 2, and most of the arguments in this video I 100% disagree with. Recoil in Quake 2 is softcore compared to other games. I can agree the textures are little too "Quake Brown" and I mostly enjoy getting to the later levels where there is a little more color. The Expansion Packs to Quake 2 ruined my good childhood memories of quake 2 however. The Expansions are tuned drastically differently than Quake 2 Vanilla, and and do not fit with what ID Software was going for. Especially Ground Zero with the overpowered turrets that turn it into a careful and steady game instead of run and gun. Ground Zero is so bad that the devs should have been black listed or at least the individually who thought instant-kill turrets were a good idea.
I recently finished their Quake 1 remaster, and it was great, but I’m not sure what they can do for Q2 that hasn’t already been done by Quake 2 RTX. I mean, real time ray tracing is kind of the end of the line... as far as graphics improvements go, it doesn’t get more advanced than that... and it was definitely worth it, by the way - it finally gave Q2 the creepy atmosphere that it was lacking.
@@psionski you're not wrong but I can think of a couple reasons it -RTX still isn't accessible to most people -a great part of Nightdive's contribution with the remasters is making it more accessible/convenient to people who either don't know how to use source ports or just want to play it "out of the box" -it could get a new expansion, like what machine games did with dimension of the machine for q1 and even include the console port versions as add-ons -it could help bringing attention/hype to the franchise, especially if they were to release a new entry, and revitalizing the multiplayer
Quake 2 was iD's greatest game. Simply put, it was the Quake engine but set in a Doom environment, a futuristic military base. It's a credit to iD that Quake 1 worked, because it wound up that way because they simply couldn't make up their minds on what kind of game it should be. It was originally a half role playing game. Then they came to their senses and realized it just needed to be a FPS. But they had already made all these medieval enemies and weapons and levels, so they just threw it all together and hoped it worked. It did, but they got lucky. So they returned to what they knew with Quake 2. And I enjoyed both mission packs..
Right? I don't like Last of Us, why would I play it and then complain. But if I did, I definitely wouldn't lie about it and spread misinformation like this idiot is doing.
This entire video can be summed up as "get guud" especially your complaints about the gunner...unless you're playing on nightmare, just flinch him. Hes got a huge vulnerable window where if you flinch him as the gun opens he wont fire. Added bonus the window is about the same as a super shotgun reload. Easiest 2 shot in the game unless you cant get close....
Also, cook the hand grenades. "It hasn't aged well" its what 20 years old? Ofc not. "X gun is slow" time/pace your shots "Chaingun eats ammo" its a room clearer melt everything in one BRRRRRT then cleanup with the super shotty. Machine gun? Pull down...common counterstrike recoil management. Yeah all these guns got quirks. Its common in basically any fps. They all have specific jobs. Even games like Halo are like this.
@@Bagheera2 Old comment ik but, The hand grenades... Do genuinely suck. Like, There is no reason to use them for the most part until you get the grenade launcher.
@@Bagheera2 Uh what? They do make noise tf? If you mean for the AI to pick up, that is true but... its so annoying to throw. The arc is too narrow for my tastes so I avoid em unless im maxed on them or I have the grenade launcher my beloved.
In that case I wonder, what you think about the "Quake Killer" from 98, Unreal. It has same inventory system, more interesting weapons and more unique level designs. Also it has awsome soundtrack. In case you remember Hedon. Some of the tracks Are actualy unused tracks from Unreal
@@zatozatoichi7920 well that's why put the quotation marks :D. But you find that quote on the original box. Even if this FPS isn't perfect, I still prefer it before Quake 2 (which I also played a lot in the past). That said, Is it just me or is Unreal kinda forgotten? Maybe people avoid talking about it, because the Tournament series were more popular, plus not many people like to talk about Epic games these days.
I've been a massive Unreal fan in the past but the only good weapons are the eightball and flak cannon, everything else feels weak compared to any Q2 gun (except the hand grenades). UT99 weapons used in some mods are an improvement but nothing compared to the Unreal Evolution's weapons (shame it's only a campaign-only mod).
I actually liked The Reckoning more than the base campaign apart from the first level. I found the base campaign too easy, even when set to +hard mode. The Reckoning had tougher enemies and levels. I particularly liked the level where you hide on the enemy ship. Ground zero would be ok if you could disable the turrets. They were no fun at all
Agree on this, I just beat the Quake 2 campaign on Hard and it felt more like Medium if that. Saved my quad damage for the final boss and shot him with the BFG a bunch of times and he died in like 30 seconds lol. Still had a blast though.
@@normanred9212 You should play the remaster. It makes Ground Zero actually fun to play by buffing the weapons and nerfing the turrets and spider (forgot what they are called) weapon damage. The introduction of the compass also makes the nonsensical level design a non issue since you can just wip that out anytime you get lost.
@@atifarshad7624 The only thing bad about Doom 3 is the Shotgun. Get past that, then it's leagues better than Quake 2 since both practically have similar gunplay -- only difference is the theme it's based around. Not to mention, the advance movement is the exact same, plus the addition of crouch jumping.
@@SleeperJohns Its not just the shotgun. There's other stuff in Doom 3 that I don't like such as how slow the movement is, how annoying the screenshake is when we take damage, the dark and cramped level design where (even if Doom 3 had strafejumping on par with Q2) I wouldn't be able to strafejump around the maps. Another thing I don't enjoy is the reading/listening to logs to get codes for lockers. I know they aren't necessary for progression, but my completionist OCD makes it have to do it. And last, but not the least. Q2's multiplayer is far superior to Doom 3's. Not even a comparison there.
@@atifarshad7624 There is the player's ambition to not get hit. Sure, there might be some places that it's inevitable. Regardless, every enemy is telegraphed with their attacks. If you let them hit you, and you knew it was gonna happen - it's normally your fault anyways. I hate the screen shake too, but I oddly find it as a way of discipline in game design. And no, I'm not saying get good, I'm saying, it's a game. If you make something have a purpose, then, it makes the element of "get good" rhetorical. Because you put the purpose somewhere to get good. And once you do that, then, it simply doesn't matter anymore. Screen shakes or not. But if it's just down right annoying, then, yeah, I see why it would be bad game design to you, but for me, things are different. Strafe jumping is indeed hard, and has places in maps in the micro perspective within the campaign, but if you look at speedrunners (not saying you should take their word from what I'm saying), but they have a way to making that happen. I'm happy there is advance movement in the game, but I'm unhappy we don't get to utilize it a whole bunch like in Quake 2. At least it's there, even though there is literally no point in using it casually in playthroughs. I do, because it's muscle memory. I have to agree 100% about your point with multiplayer, although I suck at the plain stuff like regular CTF, DMs and TDM. But Railwarz CTF? It's on another level, I'm into it, but the skill ceiling is wicked high vs regular CTF games. If you would try that mode, you'd lose your mind. The player base for that are literally cracked out and easily be mistaken as aimbots, when they're not. I've fallen prey to that as I gotten better and stuck with it, but... the skill ceiling is higher than normal, what do you expect? Lol
I want Quake to be a kind of _The Outer Limits_ for first-person shooter games. Every Quake installment would be an entirely different story, each one a new and compelling reason to shoot enemies in the face.
Not really, no. The only problem of Ground Zero were the overtuned turrets, they were too accurate, too strong, too sturdy and too numerous, without them it would actually be a better version of original game. I absolutely loved the bosses. The only problem of Reckoning was a bit lazy approach of "let's just stuff enemies behind every corner and crate, EVERY corner and crate, and make levels really cramped". I would not mind, it gave me a lot of tasty gib-em-all moments, but super-gladiators were just a big screw-up because of that - they basically oneshot you with a huge AoE on nightmare/hard, and because of how cramped levels are, there were plenty of situations when gladiator had a drop on you and you had no way to avoid that AoE. Still, the xpacks were pretty rad.
Quake 2 was actually the last Quake game I played, definitely did not grow up with it and definitely missed out on the deathmatch days but I still find it super fun. One of my favourite shooters that I've replayed the most. For a while I even preferred it over the first game. Definitely don't have to be blinded by nostalgia to love the game. Quake 2 isn't the best game out there but I almost can't understand not liking it or at least appreciating it if you do like other shooters of the era. I think of it as a sort of a middle ground between Quake and Unreal in terms of pace. Faster than Unreal but slower than Quake. Very curious how you feel about Unreal now. I feel Unreal has a way better atmosphere but that Quake 2 is more fun in basically every way.
don't know dude, I first played the game in 2018, with a slightly negative bias thanks to the hub system, yet when I played it, I loved it, along with The Reckoning Ground Zero is frustrating on any difficulty higher than normal
Word. I'm about to finish it on hard and it's pretty bad. That's why I wanted to see an interesting opinion on the expansions. Instead it's just this dude pissing and moaning about the game in general with an opinion that the vast majority of people don't agree with.
@@agbrenv haha oh yeah. Ive tried to play the original countless times and I always quit before I can even find my way out of the mines. So much backtracking and confusion.
Call of The Machine is a perfect expansion, very varied in themes, Each mission you play a different marine being thrown into the battlefield with a drop pod scene in real time. Each one of them meet a different fate at the end of their operation. You even get to see some familiar faces from Quake 1 !
Hmm.. I didn’t have a problem with Q2 controls at all and I didn’t think the weapons were that bad. It’s a bit weird to hear someone call Q2 color palette “bland” after just showing video of king-of-bland Q1. But to each their own.
Quake 1 had plenty of brown to go around, but still had other colors to break up the monotony in some places. E1M1 starts and ends with brown or tan in both the textures and enemies. By E1M3, you'd see a splash of green thrown in. Come E2M3, the brown style in textures takes more of a backseat for that level. Then E2M5 has blue and brown sharing the spotlight. So on, so forth. Q1 has a lot of brown or similar colors in the spectrum (such as red or yellow), but the key that gets overlooked is that Q2 has the tech base architecture for virtually every level, which makes the brown stand out too well. Q1 only uses that visual style in the base game for the first level in every episode. While it certainly makes sense that the Strogg on their heavily industrialized planet would fantasize over every centimeter of their planet being brown, that doesn't automatically translate to instantly becoming tolerable to experience. At least not for someone who came to Q2 from Q1. Were Q2's levels designed with varied architectural styles and added some "spice" to the colors - especially to tech bases - while still retaining the overall imposing idea of "alien cyborrg army wants to assimilate everyone," I don't think brown would be one of the bigger controversies that come up with the Q1-Q2 comparisons.
I personally prefer base Quake 2 over Quake 1. I don't think the weapons are as bad as you are making them out to be. The shotguns in quake 2 have slower fire rate, but in turn deal much more damage. The grenades and grenade launcher are also fine. The railgun is the best sniping weapon ever designed. The chaingun and machine gun I admit are annoying, but every other weapon is fine. The palette is too brown, but Quake 1 also has that issue. The hub system is personal preference and I don't mind either. With that being said, i do agree that the mission packs of Quake 2 suck. Quake 1's were much better (I even prefer Scourge of Armagon over base Quake 1 and Dissolution of Eternity is also decent). In Quake 2's case, The Reckoning is just bland and low effort expansion. Ground Zero has much more effort put into it, but suffers from terrible gameplay decisions.
Ground Zero is objectively terrible though... even when it was released, it got a 6/10. If it wasn't a Quake game, then it would have received an even worse reception. It's easily the weakest of all the expansion packs. Base game is great. Reackoning is decent enough (I really love the final few levels being in zero G). Ground Zero is just trash though. It doesn't really add anything new except for some annoying enemies and very gimmicky weapons.
Complaining when you don't know the controls or can't strategize at all shows the problem was the person behind the keyboard. The mission packs are boring but that is about it really. Dude complains about wasting ammo with the chaingun like he can't plan around it and pull his finger from mouse1 when the enemy is about to die. Dude can't plan around the explosion delay with the grenades. Most of the complaints are "stupid Quake kills me if I fire the lightning gun underwater", just don't shoot the gun underwater. Calling the railgun "fine" is crazy. "The characters have no personality", nobody outside of Duke Nukem had a personality in shooters back in the day, and look where that got him. Serious Sam was a Duke Nukem ripoff and it is also just as dead. Gordon Freeman also has no personality. I will give you that in regards to the art style it does have aged terribly, it is like being trapped in a bad mod for Fallout 3, a mod with actual gunplay and functional ladders, something bethesda has not figured out 17 years later. "who would start a game with an underwater\sewer level?" Daikatana? I am surprised you did not complain about the lack of headshot mechanic when it was not even invented yet. Quake 2 is the game where Id Software was trying to create a linear story based on outside pressure regarding the other successful shooters at the time. Complaining about the gunner shooting grenades when you had the entire normal campaign to adapt to it is rich, it is not like iD expected you to work around that mechanic by the SECOND MAP in the main campaign. You could have edited this gameplay so you would look good and you still got shot twice with the gladiator railgun by walking straight instead of zig zagging. If the turrets in the game are such a threat to you, never play the fallout franchise, or the FEAR franchise, or Doom 3. Nobody cares that you are not on board, just make valid criticisms. Your lack of skill in regards to understanding that every enemy is a gimmick and that you are supposed to count your shots with the weapons to know what weapons is best for each enemy were rules for basically all 90s shooters. You not supposed to use a chaingun on guards, you are not supposed to use a rocket launcher close to your face and you are not supposed to shoot the grenade launcher like it is a half life mp5. The guards are training enemies. They are just fodder. Enforcer is the training enemy in regards to variety in enemy shape and abilities, his trailing of the player character with his arm chaingun can be used against him if you make him shoot another enemy in the process. The gunner is the enemy meant to make you not stand around, he trails you with the machinegun and you can use his explosives to do area of effect damage to enemies, causing infighting. The Parasite is the area based life draining gimmick mostly present in RPGs through spells. The berserker is the melee enemy that you can use as a shield from enemy fire, and his high health basically guarantees he will do a lot of damage to the enemy if he does not win the fight outright, which is a benefit to you. The Medics are medics, they are meant to reinforce priority fire in battles with multiple big enemies. The Tanks are just meant to tank your attacks, they are slow because they are meant to teach the player to prioritize the tank last whenever possible. The gladiators punish straight movement. The Barracuda is just the obligatory water enemy. The fliers serve to teach the player early on that threats can be airborne, kinda like the flu. The Iron Maiden is the woman enemy. The technician shows that air based enemies can be tanky and adds visual variety. The icarus is the ultimate air based threat. The mutant is the beast type enemy with melee attacks and jumps, which punishes players who think the fact he is melee means he is a similar threat to the berserker. The brains is the shield guy to teach location damage to the player, and also how to use the grenade bounce properly as he receives more damage in his back. A lot of quake 2 characters were meant to invoke similar mechanics from Quake 1 as that was expected to happen by the audience at the time, the enemies were just adapted to the slower gameplay and flow of Quake 2. I am not saying this philosophy was shared in the expansions because most likely these expansions were just a way for Carmack and iD to highlight other studios, as that was always part of Carmack's behavior, which is why he released the source code for every 3D engine a few years after it was released, so people could openly mod or use the engine for free.
I don't understand the critiques for the guns. They have a bit more depth and quirks to get used to, that's all. The shotguns aren't that slow and nothing in the game is fast enough to make it an issue. The machine gun's recoil is easily manageable. The chaingun's cool because it makes you time when to stop by figuring out enemy's health. The grenades are useless anyway since there's a grenade launcher. It's also really not that slow firing. The guns are great. It sounds like you're expecting it to play exactly like Quake and DOOM but it's not either of those games... it's a bit different.
Quake 2's engine has a 50 ms delay on all inputs. Input lag. John Carmack admitted later this was a mistake and never did that again. I never finished the single player but holy crap I had soooo much fun as a kid teen playing Quake 2 everyday after school with friends. I started my own clan for Quake 2.
The complaints you're making, particularly in regards to the movement and weapons lacks any real merit, as there are ways to mitigate what you're experiencing. You can cook your grenades, and stick to the small machine gun for single enemies. Why would you burn 50 rounds with the chaingun to blast a guard? And lest I be remiss to acknowledge it, you have to adapt your playstyle. Not everything is COD where you have regenerating health. You make a mistake and you pay for it. You have to think about how to approach a room before moving in. Your review is generally lazy, particularly because your opinion is lacking critical understanding of the context as to why Quake 2 is what it is in the first place, and how it came to be that way, having been developed at a certain tech period in the 90s... It's just as important as the game itself.
Most of what you said is spot on, but the whole 90s vs COD thing doesn't make much sense given that he clearly does enjoy Quake 1. If anything his issue seems to be that it's not Quake 1, with its silly-fast shotgun reloads and more abstract design. He seems unwilling or unable to adapt his playstyle to the new enemy and weapon behaviors.
@@harbingerdawn Quake 1 gun play is barebones tho. - Not much variety in terms of enemy roster: Tech Base? Dog, Grunt and Enforcer Other maps? 40% Ogres, 20% Fiends, 10% Knights and the rest will depend on the episode. - Some enemies can't even aim correctly if you are at a higher position than them: Shambler, Zombies, Ogre, effectively making them useless - You only need to worry about using three guns: RL, SNG and SSG. One thing I'll give credits tho is they knew how to mix enemy behavior with map geometry to make the gameplay more interesting in some situations. I guess my point is, Q1 is pretty a simple minded game, it's a "head empty, no thoughts" game thanks to its repetitive factor.
@@CSSLZT13 Late reply but I think you misunderstood. The remaster nerfed the turrets to oblivion. They can be destroyed with one single Rocket or Railgun shot, also you can actually tell where they are aiming to so they became easier to dodge + the predict your movement thing was toned down and finally damage was also nerfed.
@davidchez9376 I, uh, appreciate your response to my shock. I might actually go back and do the remaster on Nightmare, then, thanks a ton for the clarification, I got super scared it was the opposite, lol
@@CSSLZT13 If you already bought Quake 2, the remaster comes as a free update, you will be able to play the main campaign, Quake 64 campaign, both expansions and the new Call of the Machine campaign.
With the weapons I 100% disagree with the grenade launcher, I abuse the heck out of that by shooting around corners or to floors below me but it's a LIFE-SAVER during the Ground Zero map pack as 70% of the time if you fling a grenade around a corner, you'd probably hit a solider lying in wait, that map pack is the Dark Souls 2 of Quake 2 where it's just enemy ambush galore.
I always thought Quake II's weapons were amazing. They all have their strengths and weaknesses - like in Doom Eternal, but you think its a bad thing that you can't just use the same 3 weapons 90% of the time like in Quake I. I always found Quake I's weapons to be flawed because you'll just be using the ssg, sng, and rocket launcher almost the entire game since all of the other guns are just lesser versions of the main 3, besides the thunderbolt, which is your BFG. So in Quake I you actually only have 3 weapons - in brutal contrast to Quake II having 7 weapons you use regularly.
I mentioned this in another video, Quake 2 is a game I want to love but it is in fact somehow kinda boring. It's fun at first until you realize the levels are all very samey. It becomes a game I try to force myself to play through rather than actually enjoying like I do with Quake 1. I have fond memories of Quake 2 on the N64 when I played that as a kid since it had better atmosphere.
Eh, never had a problem with Quake 2. Not id's best game but certainly not their worst. I don't think the weapons are nearly as bad as you say they are. They all have their pro's and con's. You showed yourself using the chaingun on a bunch of low level enemies. I don't think that is what the gun was made for. Also, I don't think the grenade is meant for throwing directly at enemies. It's a weapon to bounce off walls and objects while you are being pinned down. Same with the faster acting grenade launcher. It's pretty much the same weapon as Quake 1's. Also, also, why are you trying to run over enemies that aren't dead yet? As for the color palette, the game is just an extension of the Quake engine. It was many of the enhancements that Carmack made to the Quake engine over the years into a new game. That is why you have a very limited color palette. It's directly from Quake 1 and is there for software rendering. The Quake 3 engine was rewritten and doesn't use the software renderer. That is why that engine was able to have so many different colors. No limitations from the first engine. Quake 2 was heavily optimized for online play, which is honestly where I spent the most time with it. Although I don't think everyone has to have the same opinions on games, I find it weird how you love Heretic, which has some of the crappiest weapons and enemies ever, but nitpick the hell out of Hexen and Quake 2. I'm looking forward to when you inevitably get back to reviewing Doom 3. Now that is a boring crap id game... and I was on Doom3world everyday learning the mod the engine... which was put to *way* better use with Quake 4 and Prey.
"Quake 2 sucks because they fucked up the guns" Stopped watching the video right there, Quake 1's guns also feel like shit too. The super shotgun in Quake 1 is one of the worst shotguns I ever used.
I really loved quake 2 and still do. A lot of these compliments just feel like knit picking from people who are just bad at that game, who can't deal with a bit of higher skill requirements
I got into Quake about 3 or 4 years ago and overall I do like Quake 2. I don't think it's the greatest game ever made but I like it. Quake 2 has a "woah, rock 'n roll dude! Pizza! Fight the cyborgs!" sitting in a beanbag chair type attitude which I think is fun as well. It doesn't take itself too seriously. *My Dislikes:* -The parasite is a royal pain and I don't think it was that fair to include it at the beginning of the game. -The hand grenades I hardly ever use, I only use them early on because I don't have the grenade launcher yet. Only when I have a surplus to burn through or I'm running low on ammo for my other weapons. They're good for chucking around corners where you know an enemy is going to ambush you and with a bit of skill, you can insta-kill any weaker enemy type. -I love the soundtrack, the soundtrack is awesome, my only issue is I can only listen to non-stop thrash for so long until it starts giving me a headache. That's one of the things I've come to appreciate more about Half-Life is that the music doesn't play non-stop, there is pacing and variety so my brain gets a chance to breathe. *My Favorites:* -I love Quake 2's railgun. It handles great once you learn how to aim with it and I think it looks cool. I like the hose off to the side and the electronics exposed, it's very unique and gives you the feeling of how industrial and experimental it is. Kind of like Half-Life 1's tau cannon with it's exposed circuit boards and its blue water bottle. Quake 3's railgun does have the sound cue when a new shot is ready but it doesn't look or feel as nice in my opinion. There's no exposed hose and it's very stiff. In Quake 2 it has that kind of reloading pump animation. -I like some of the designs of the enemies like the gladiators and the tanks with treads. They're crazy and fun. -I like the added touch of the flies coming for dead bodies and my favorite death animation is one for the enforcer. It's the one where his head falls off and he's still firing helplessly with his chaingun arm as he wobbles to the floor. *My Takes:* -Playing for the first time I'd lose interest around the ammo depot at the beginning because it's pretty dull all around. Quake 2 becomes more enjoyable once you have more weapons and you understand how the handling works. -Other than the hand grenades, I don't have much beef with Quake 2's arsenal. The pistol is baby's first gun and is only good for shooting buttons later on. The standard shotgun is only good later on if you want to be more conservative with shotgun ammo. The machinegun and chaingun handling is odd at first but once you get a feel for them they're alright. It's bliss when you time the wind down on the chaingun exactly right when mowing down a horde of bad guys. Doom 3's arsenal is where I think Id Software sh** the bed because the gunplay is so poor. (Once you mod Doom 3 in all of the right places though it starts become more enjoyable and feel like the other Doom games. Idc if anyone likes stock Doom 3, that's fine with me, enjoy it, not an attack. I personally like the rest of the Dooms so that's what I go for). -There's an AI upscaled texture pack that I use to make the game look a bit better. It takes the original textures and increases the resolution so they're sharp and clear. (Quake 2 doesn't look as good with or without texture filtering imo). It may not help the art style if it's still not your taste but it helps to make it look better. *The Reckoning:* I played it once, I don't remember much gameplay-wise, I remember locations. I don't think it's tooo bad overall. That one underwater trap is awful it's inexcusable, and there's a new guard time that can whittle your health down in seconds which is B.S. I haven't played Ground Zero yet so idk. The mission packs do have some nice new music, I like Counter Attack and Stealth Frag. The boomerang gun kinda sucks, I'd forget I had it. The other explosive gun looks out of place graphically but it shoots out cluster explosions which is fun.
You can't retroactively get into Quake2. As someone who played all ID games, Quake2 was and still is legendary in my eyes. As for weapons, the rocket launcher was slowed down because in Quake1 it was ridiculously fast and the best weapon in the game. I find it funny how you like the rocket launcher yet compared to Quake1 the rocket launcher was massively nerfed 😀In Quake2 you can actually use weapons more strategically, the rocket launcher is not end all be all. Btw. love your kiwi accent 😃
I just played it for the first time and I honestly loved it, I like it as much as quake 1 and even prefer the faster pace of Quake 2 honestly. So it is possible to still get into quake 2. Q2 feels like a blend of Quake 1 with combat closer to that of classic Doom's to me.
Quake 2 is my favorite first person shooter. I dont like modern shooters and the mechanics they use, regen health, reloading, slow paced, no exploration.
Bruh, are you really bitching about an FPS made in the late 90s? Yeah, these mission packs don't have the level structure of the base Quake II, or its relatively forgiving difficulty, but it adds a whole ton of stuff and it makes for a pretty decent expansion. The thing is, Quake II is an upgrade of the first Quake, and as it is, it's a technological marvel, as well as a pretty good shooter on its own. Of course, most people will prefer the first one because it has more going on in terms of atmosphere and that's fine, but if Quake II is the weakest game ID Software can provide, then i'd say that's more than fine. In other words, get good and get real. You don't like it? Go play any other FPS.
2:12 Actually they messed it up, rockets fly much much slower than in quake 1, where in fact rocket launcher was ultimate weapon, because of really short weapon roaster and rare ammo for shaft. 2:23 Hyperblaster suffers from doom like cooldown, but when in doom cooldown was purely visual, in quake when you finish fire to one direction and cease fire to not waste your ammo, and then you want to fire in different direction you cant do it immediately , because weapon actully cooling down, even if you literaly shoot only one cell from it.
It sounds like you shouldn't even have played the mission packs since you disliked the base game in the first place. I didn't like Quake 1 so I obviously didn't play the mission packs, because they're not gonna make me love that game.
Despite Quake 2 being my entry to the series when I was a kid, I always felt that Unreal 1 was a much better Quake 2 than the actual Quake 2. Even Daikatana (preferably with fixer patches) is a better Quake 2 game. DUSK is also a good contender though it’s more akin to something like Quake’s Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night or Ion Maiden.
I came here to learn about the mission packs. Ended up watching a whole video about a guy with skill issues trying to trash Quake 2 by saying "Quake 1 better" Just because the game has a different play style compared to the brown corridor shooter that is Quake 1 does not make it worse. Quake 1 is still good, I played it after Quake 2, and the honest truth is that they offer different experiences with different mechanics so they cannot really be compared. Quake 2 has the name of Quake only because ID had no time to come up with a new name. It was meant to be a brand new IP.
Always loved Q2 more that the first one. Replayed recently both games with all mission packs and god damn Q1 is way more fun, aged better, smoother and precise movement, and over all much more fun to play.
The Remaster did fix some issues, but that was mainly in regards to Ground Zero. The Reckoning did nerf the health of the Beta Class Gladiators but that's about it. Ground Zero had more annoying Stalkers and some seriously messed up balance with the turrets. Turrets in the remaster are a joke compared to the original Ground Zero.
Okay, but like no joke. You're playing horribly. I'm not even a Quake fanboy. I only recently started playing Quake 2 for the first time a few days ago! I love the base game (except for the Palace level, which is a pain how it's designed). The Reaconing was my favorite mission pack. Can't stand Ground Zero though... ughhh
'this game is slow because i dont know how to dodge grenades half the time' Granted it's not always possible in tight spaces, but it's purely a skill issue in every other circumstance
“How did iD Software fuck up the guns & gameplay?!” Cause their boy John R. was off fucking up a Big Game called Big Sword by himself, fucking up Big Time because he now had to handle the things he wasn’t good at by himself. Quake II was a total turkey, but iD Software with their reputation could take a mulligan. Daikatana was an overcooked turkey game running on a turkey engine well past it’s “sell by” date.
The moment you said that the chaingun in Q2 has recoil, I lost interest, cuz you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Yes, it has a wind-up/wind-down, but it has never had recoil.
Yes Quake I is very dull, retarded moaning moster, crappy wanna-be doom weapons etc. I mean Quake I is a joke. Quake II at least tries to be something.
Quake 2 is better in all regards. Not saying quake is bad, but quake 2 is quake with a lot of improvements. For me it sounds that you don't like quake 2 because you heard it before and want to jump on that train.
Man, that time back Q2 was one of the best and one of the most popular FPSs beside Q1 and it's mission packs... And we loved all mission packs that time. "Additional content, wow!", we Quake fans told (alike with Red Alert, C&C and Carmageddon expansions: Covert Operations, Aftermath, Counterstrike, Splat Pack). And the multiplayer was crowned with new multi maps as well... Ofc, not comparable with the Y2Ks and nowdays (it was better ;).
The Quake 2 mission packs (at least the original ones before Call of the Machine) suffer the same problem that games like Final Doom do. They're intentionally designed to discourage playing them the way you would play the base games. Which, in turn, makes it kind of dickish in the way they were designed. Quake 2 is generally a consistently-paced game where you are more or less always on the move from location to location--but the mission packs require the player to either: A) know beforehand where everything is going to come at you, or B) slowly inch into each room to avoid damage from bad enemy placement. Quake 2 mission packs are hard not because of challenge, but because you're intentionally hampered along the way. It happens time and again that enemies will be hidden in alcoves that no logical enemy would be in, or they will pop-out of hidden walls behind you, or turrets will be placed above and behind you when you enter a room--the list goes on. My personal favorite is the overutilization of the railgun enemies--who you will almost always run across when you're in a narrow passage/narrow walkway, leaving you with limited ability to avoid them. This is just like Final Doom; which relied on a plethora of Revenants to increase player frustration. Case in point--no base Quake 2 level on Medium skill had more than 71 enemies in it--Ground Zero levels can have over 120. Throwing hordes of tough, annoying enemies you have to hide from and peek around corners to do damage, is a poor substitute for a well-designed challenge. Not the mention the enemies with shields, which are just there to soak up your ammo and slow you down more. The grunts with the hit-scanning lasers are annoying too, as are those stupid spiders. Then there's the final boss of Ground Zero--which is just a hit-scanning tanky enemy, that will also continuously spawn help against you. The main strategy that people suggest for this?: "Well, use the Quad Damage and Invulnerability that you (hopefully) found in an earlier level." The 2023 Remastered version does provide a waypoint guide to tell you where to go. But its two main negative points are that it added back the Berserker's leap attack, which is overpowered and unpredictable. It also nerfed the Railgun's strength and make it pretty much useless against anything beyond the base grunts. It should not take 3 railgun shots to kill those annoying spiders.
The expansions were rebalanced on the remaster and the biggest issue with Ground Zero was fixed: Turrets became "lowkey" fun to destroy since a well placed Rocket / Railgun shot is all you need. Side note: The shielded enemies, either Power Shielded or Regular Shield, can be dealt with Plasma Weapons. Also, the Black Widow strategy of just use everything is not that great.
I can see the point of your critiques and I have learned what not to do while designing an FPS, specially making dying enemies blocking the way, making the shotguns slower than classic Doom's or giving weapons ridiculous amounts of recoil. Having said that, I cannot wait for this game to be re-released for its 30th anniversary on modern platforms. 🤣
I totally don’t agree. Quake 1 was nothing but a 3D engine demo (what is the story behind Q1?). Quake 2 was actually... not to be a quake sequel! It’s a totally different game and I love it.
It was a different time FP; ran well on what you would call pedestrian speed PC's with essentially primate video by todays standards. I can proudly say that original Quake II and the mission pack CD's are still within arms reach from where I'm typing this comment (albeit I would need to plug in my USB DVD drive to read them) . I also have it bundled with a physical copy of Quake 4 and have Quake II RTX on steam.
Personally I enjoyed Quake 2, however not as much as the other Quake games and I don't find it too replayable. I agree with many of your points as I also had some of the same issues with Quake 2. I haven't played the mission packs yet, but they don't look too interesting, although if I will get ever get a fever to play Quake 2 again I might try them.
I did have a lot of fun playing Q2 multiplayer with friends so that will always be a great classic fps experience to me. I loved Q1 too but Q2 JUST edges it out for me for multiplayer. Campaign is no contest though Q1 campaign is way more fun than Q2.
With the exception of the Nailguns versus the Machine Gun and Chaingun, and preferring Quake I's basic Shotgun to the Blaster for a starting weapon I generally prefer Quake II's guns to their Quake I counterparts. The Quake II Super Shotgun is easily my favorite of the Super Shotguns from Doom II, Quake I, and Quake II. I also like that both the original Quake II expansions make it easy to obtain a Shotgun before engaging the enemy. I also prefer Quake II's story because I prefer scifi to fantasy and Quake I's setting was much more fantasy.
I don't agree with your complaints about Quake 2's weapons. The "downsides" are there to balance the game and make every gun situational. Blaster is good for tapping light foes from afar or detonating explosives without wasting ammo. Also works as a flashlight in underwater sections. Shotgun is faster than SuperShotgun but does way less damage and is more precise - use it for low-tier enemies to dispatch them fast one by one or to deal damage from further away without wasting so much ammo. Super Shotgun is very powerful but slow and has massive spread - use it to slaughter low-tier enemies in bulk from up close or to deal with tougher enemies, but you'll have to be mobile to avoid getting hit between shots. You can also crouch in front of an enemy and launch them up using it. With Quad damage you can throw Tanks into pits! Machinegun has very high recoil but doesn't eat ammo so fast - use it for lower trier enemies, for flying ones or for finishing up tougher foes. Minigun has a wind down and eats ammo like a dog eats ham - use it to get yourself out of a bad situation or tap the trigger to fire a short series of shots to deal with lower-tier enemies. Mind the wind-down and you'll be fine. HyperBlaster is a bit like Minigun, but more accurate and has a wind-up if you stop firing it - this makes it so you need to plan your shots to not be caught off guard. Grenade launcher is firing much faster than your hand but doesn't let you cook grenades - use it for killing tougher enemies behind corners or cover. Throw nades manually on weaker enemies with tightly controlled explosion timing. The fact that throwing granades takes time to prepare means you need to prepare them behind a corner and only expose yourself to enemy when you're ready to throw. Rocket launcher is firing very slow projectiles but is good for enemies who can't move too much and are far away, or who are running at you down a corridor. Just don't use it when they get too close - switch to Minigun to not kill yourself with splash damage. I find it fun to choose the best gun for the job and learn how to use them effectively. I think id did this, because in Quake the weapons were quite uninspired. You had two guns which were pretty much straight upgrades for another two Super Shotgun and Super Nailgun), making large part of the arsenal redundant. This still would happen in Quake 2 if they didn't give the guns unique downsides and quirks that make them play differently and not just be a better version of another gun.
While I do think that Quake 2 is a great game, it's not a near perfect game like the original Quake. It's not bad by any means, but it factually feels worse to play and ironically aged worse than its predecessor.
Quake 2 marked the beginning of Tim Willets running Id software into the ground. Because of him, they basically became a non-factor in the dev scene until Doom 2016. The most outrageous thing about it is that he has this smug sense of accomplishments about his time at Id.
@@avernus_a3 That's not what they said at all, lol, just that id's influence waned in those years heavily. I mean, doom 3 used good tech but, to be honest, I don't think its impact as a game was nearly as big as most other id games released before or after this era (minus quake 3 and wolfenstein lol, but iirc the latter series was being developed by third parties by that point). Say what you will about it being bad or good, the most impact that I think it had was in terms of tone and aesthetic, but even then it seems to be mostly remembered for how weird it is in a franchise like doom from what I've seen lol (though obvs that might be different if you frequent different circles).
Tim Willits made one of the best maps for Doom I. He basically kept id software alive until they sold it to Bethesda. John Carmack leaving almost made no difference at this point 'cause the engine technology is so advanced they don't need him. Tim Willits is boss. All hail Tim Willits.
@@dooplon5083 "I mean, doom 3 used good tech but, to be honest, I don't think its impact as a game was nearly as big as most other id games" Doom 3 is the most sold out id game of all time you with 3.5 million copies you delusional doofus.
If one were the sort to only play for the campaign content like I did back then, I don't think anyone would know bunny hopping was a thing without searching for speedruns. Last I checked, it's not even documented in the manual. Even further, why would you be required to know how to bunny hop - which can take quite a bit of time to practice being consistent at - to play the campaign as a non-speedrunner?
Whenever you mention Xatrix you always talk about Redneck Rampage and Return to Castle Wolfenstein but you forgot one game that they also made.. one that was in between those two said games.. "Kingpin: Life of Crime" from 1999 that runs on Quake 2's engine and it makes Quake 2 look decent in comparison due to how tanky enemies can be especially on higher difficulties.
There's something to it. Q1 I finished recently with great pleasure but when it comes to Q2 even rtx or XP version does not help. I like this game but it quickly starts to bore me and somehow I can never finish it. It seems to me that it is about moving and gunplay.
It's strange. Quake 2 has stronger memories for me, possibly because I was using the Internet more frequently compared to when Quake 1 launched, and so most of the mods I downloaded and played were for Quake 2. Bot support for multiplayer was also better (I was 11 at the time on dial-up so online multiplayer wasn't really viable). However, nowadays it is Quake 1 that I will fire up and play when I have a few minutes of downtime at work, and I haven't bothered touching Quake 2 in years. I think you're right that it just feels better to play, and I actually prefer the overall look of Quake's software rendered graphics at high resolution vs Quake 2's GPU-accelerated graphics. Quake 2 suffers from that blurry look that early GPU accelerated games suffered from.
I enjoyed them. It's still more Quake 2 & I love it even all these years later. No games have its mission structure, even decades later
same
I hear about the uniqueness of the mission structure, but having played it all the way through, I’m not sure what’s unique about it. If you’re talking about objective based missions, plenty of games have that. Or if you’re talking about interconnected levels with backtracking, Metroid Prime does that. Perhaps you can explain it to me? I’d love to hear it.
@@Brandon-ik3ym Quake 2 was the first FPS to have these.
@@Zibit21 Sure. But then we’re just talking about nostalgia.
@@Brandon-ik3ym it is not complicated and it's not nostalgia...he's saying they're the pioneers of the hub system.
7:52 I don't think that's an oversight. Many enemies will have a final desperation attack once they lose their health so that's probably why you can't instantly run over them
To be fair, they tend to constantly clog doors for some reason and can make you wait, but I never though of it really annoying.
The death animations never bothered me. In fact, I think it's more annoying in half life than in quake 2 with the headcrabs.
I like it because it keeps me from fully turning my brain off 😂
I dunno, some of these weapon complaints don't make sense, like the allegedly slow rate of fire. The time between shots seems just as quick as any other comparable weapon in other FPSes.
I always though Quake II's weapons were amazing. They all have their strengths and weaknesses - like in Doom Eternal, but he thinks its a bad thing that he can't just use the same 3 weapons 90% of the time like in Quake I. I always found Quake I's weapons to be flawed because you'll just be using the ssg, sng, and rocket launcher almost the entire game since all of the other guns are just lesser versions of the main 3, besides the thunderbolt, which is your BFG. So in Quake I you actually only have 3 weapons - in brutal contrast to Quake II having 7 weapons you use regularly.
@@itchywuss3511 The weapons and their controversy in the jump from Quake I to Quake II basically carried over into Doom (2016) and Doom Eternal!
None of the quake games had any vertical recoil for any of there guns
@@jacobclements1582the machinegun USED to, in SP. however the remaster got rid of it entirely
Bind your weapons to keys, don't use scroll wheel
Arm grenades before rushing corner
Toggle "Always run" to true
Don't camp around corners. Get in, shoot enemies in the face as fast as u can while dogging their attracts and game will turn into fast paced shooter
basically - adapt to the crap factor :)
In other words: Play like you are stuck in a traffic jam.
@@biosvideo In other words: Play like a fucking normal person
Feel like people hate Quake 2 just because it’s not Quake 1.
Every argument I’ve heard on this topic is always:
“Quake 2 sucks!”
“But Quake was good”
“Quake 2 is boring”
“But Quake is so much fun!”
Not true, all other Quake titles are more enjoyable than that slog-fest. I liked Quake 4 too.
@@Argameus What did you like about Quake 4? I personally found it to be a slog when I played through it once in about 2015 or so, but I'm curious what you found enjoyable that I just didn't grasp at all.
@@ScarletKobold I did not love it but Quake 2 was truly awful in comparison. I played it fresh off Doom 3 and appreciated the few improvements it made to the idtech 4 engine. Both overstay their welcome though.
Pretty much. I've never understood the "generic" dismissal either. It has plenty of goofy, gory charm.
@@ScarletKobold
Quake 4 had a good nailgun and the sound design was pretty on point. The rest... eh.
I'm surprised you don't like Quake II's movement. It's fine to me and less slippery. The easy bunnyhopping is awesome, too.
If you've played Quake 1, you'll know where FP is coming from.
Diagnosis: Skill issue
I was coming here to find this comment.
Very well said lol😂
"Who in their right mind would start an expansion, or any game, with a sewer level?"
*Star Wars: Dark Forces starts sweating*
Daikatana:
Oh hey, it's The Talking Skull! I love your retro FPS series!
The remaster fixes a lot of the problems:
- The ETF rifle finally feels good to use, hits enemies for a change, unlike in ground zero
- Beta Class Gladiators no longer have 1700 health, which was literally more than the huge guy on treads. They do less damage too. Still tougher than regular Gladiators of course, but much more reasonable
- Turrets are soft now, they die to a single rocket or rail. They also don't trace as hard
There are several other balance adjustments that also affect the main game. The Jorg is much tougher for example, the Railgun does (I think) 100 damage rather than the previous 150, Berserkers are slightly tougher (in addition to the extra new attack they have) and Brains are extremely dangerous now, even worse than they were in The Reckoning. Which makes sense, given how slow they move - they now need to be approached with extreme caution.
Pity this comment is so low, it's exactly everything I was about to say. The Bethesda remaster fixes quite a lot of stuff, including the janky movement (which was iirc because of low precision on the position and velocity vectors) and makes some of the enemies in the expansions way less bullcrap. The new expansion is also really good, and works hard to put you in unique and challenging situations.
@@ingolifs yeah! I even played Q2 deathmatch for the first time in my life thanks to this remaster. Gotta say it's not that different from q3a at all, barring the slightly different weapon selection
9:02 Yes, and people with fast reflexes strafejump into the gunner before it could even react and throw it into the pain state with SSG shot right into his face, and after he get up from his knees, SSG already reloaded and you just finish him off. Simple. Never had a problem with this guys.
Are we detecting a skill issue?
@@DinnerForkTongue Not at all. Unless you watch any of the background gameplay, I guess...
This video is kinda frustrating - it's one thing to critique something, it's another to say stuff like "the grenades are useless and arm way too slowly", and then later showing gameplay of standing out in the open, casually pulling one out to use it and missing by a mile cause surprise, enemies might shoot you and force you to evade.
@@umbaupause That's what I meant, video guy's skill issue.
@@DinnerForkTongue I know - it was me being sarcastic for the first sentence, and then elaborating on an example to say you are right.
My reflexes are terrible as evident to how I play csgo, and that's how I always fight those guys.
I love Quake 2, and most of the arguments in this video I 100% disagree with. Recoil in Quake 2 is softcore compared to other games. I can agree the textures are little too "Quake Brown" and I mostly enjoy getting to the later levels where there is a little more color.
The Expansion Packs to Quake 2 ruined my good childhood memories of quake 2 however. The Expansions are tuned drastically differently than Quake 2 Vanilla, and and do not fit with what ID Software was going for. Especially Ground Zero with the overpowered turrets that turn it into a careful and steady game instead of run and gun. Ground Zero is so bad that the devs should have been black listed or at least the individually who thought instant-kill turrets were a good idea.
Agree. I still play it and I like it.
Yeah, most of his arguments can be responded with "get good"
@@thescience_team haha I total agree. One of the best physic engine of all time
I hope Nightdive does for Quake 2, what they did for Quake 1.
I recently finished their Quake 1 remaster, and it was great, but I’m not sure what they can do for Q2 that hasn’t already been done by Quake 2 RTX. I mean, real time ray tracing is kind of the end of the line... as far as graphics improvements go, it doesn’t get more advanced than that... and it was definitely worth it, by the way - it finally gave Q2 the creepy atmosphere that it was lacking.
@@psionski you're not wrong but I can think of a couple reasons it
-RTX still isn't accessible to most people
-a great part of Nightdive's contribution with the remasters is making it more accessible/convenient to people who either don't know how to use source ports or just want to play it "out of the box"
-it could get a new expansion, like what machine games did with dimension of the machine for q1 and even include the console port versions as add-ons
-it could help bringing attention/hype to the franchise, especially if they were to release a new entry, and revitalizing the multiplayer
Well the remaster is out now and it is pretty good
What they need to do is add achievements and trophies for the add ons
They did!
13:28 "...Worst Id Software game..." I am pretty sure that title belongs to Rage.
Quake 2 was iD's greatest game. Simply put, it was the Quake engine but set in a Doom environment, a futuristic military base.
It's a credit to iD that Quake 1 worked, because it wound up that way because they simply couldn't make up their minds on what kind of game it should be. It was originally a half role playing game. Then they came to their senses and realized it just needed to be a FPS.
But they had already made all these medieval enemies and weapons and levels, so they just threw it all together and hoped it worked.
It did, but they got lucky. So they returned to what they knew with Quake 2. And I enjoyed both mission packs..
bruh, better that Doom4 and doom eternal?
Adapt or die. Don't like don't play. Quake 2 is not what you wanted, but this does not make game terrible.
Right? I don't like Last of Us, why would I play it and then complain. But if I did, I definitely wouldn't lie about it and spread misinformation like this idiot is doing.
Okay. Thank you. Trying to make a point so we put a period at the end. Maybe I’ll explain it, put a comma in, yeah. Cool.
This entire video can be summed up as "get guud" especially your complaints about the gunner...unless you're playing on nightmare, just flinch him. Hes got a huge vulnerable window where if you flinch him as the gun opens he wont fire. Added bonus the window is about the same as a super shotgun reload. Easiest 2 shot in the game unless you cant get close....
Also, cook the hand grenades.
"It hasn't aged well" its what 20 years old? Ofc not.
"X gun is slow" time/pace your shots
"Chaingun eats ammo" its a room clearer melt everything in one BRRRRRT then cleanup with the super shotty.
Machine gun? Pull down...common counterstrike recoil management.
Yeah all these guns got quirks. Its common in basically any fps. They all have specific jobs. Even games like Halo are like this.
What do you expect from a guy who tries to kill Icarus with a grenade launcher or uses Super Shotgun in mid range 🙄
@@Bagheera2 Old comment ik but, The hand grenades... Do genuinely suck. Like, There is no reason to use them for the most part until you get the grenade launcher.
@@skullzans they make no noise, so you can pop groups of unaltered enemies with explosives. Or if you are good at cooking airburst around corners
@@Bagheera2 Uh what? They do make noise tf? If you mean for the AI to pick up, that is true but... its so annoying to throw. The arc is too narrow for my tastes so I avoid em unless im maxed on them or I have the grenade launcher my beloved.
In that case I wonder, what you think about the "Quake Killer" from 98, Unreal. It has same inventory system, more interesting weapons and more unique level designs.
Also it has awsome soundtrack. In case you remember Hedon. Some of the tracks Are actualy unused tracks from Unreal
It was never a killer. Just a wannabe. >8]
But has some fun quirks. Shock combo is golden.
Unreal is legendary
@@zatozatoichi7920 well that's why put the quotation marks :D. But you find that quote on the original box. Even if this FPS isn't perfect, I still prefer it before Quake 2 (which I also played a lot in the past).
That said, Is it just me or is Unreal kinda forgotten? Maybe people avoid talking about it, because the Tournament series were more popular, plus not many people like to talk about Epic games these days.
I've been a massive Unreal fan in the past but the only good weapons are the eightball and flak cannon, everything else feels weak compared to any Q2 gun (except the hand grenades).
UT99 weapons used in some mods are an improvement but nothing compared to the Unreal Evolution's weapons (shame it's only a campaign-only mod).
I actually liked The Reckoning more than the base campaign apart from the first level. I found the base campaign too easy, even when set to +hard mode. The Reckoning had tougher enemies and levels. I particularly liked the level where you hide on the enemy ship. Ground zero would be ok if you could disable the turrets. They were no fun at all
Agree on this, I just beat the Quake 2 campaign on Hard and it felt more like Medium if that. Saved my quad damage for the final boss and shot him with the BFG a bunch of times and he died in like 30 seconds lol. Still had a blast though.
God, the turrets in Ground Zero are so awful...
Yep!! Those last few levels were my favorite as well!
I throughly enjoyed Reckoning, especially the Flashlight, Ground Zero was okay but the new weapons sucked compared to Reckoning's
@@normanred9212 You should play the remaster. It makes Ground Zero actually fun to play by buffing the weapons and nerfing the turrets and spider (forgot what they are called) weapon damage. The introduction of the compass also makes the nonsensical level design a non issue since you can just wip that out anytime you get lost.
"Worst iD game.." have you played Rage? A lot of ppl seem to think that that is the worst Id game.
Even Doom 3 is worse than Quake 2
@@atifarshad7624 The only thing bad about Doom 3 is the Shotgun. Get past that, then it's leagues better than Quake 2 since both practically have similar gunplay -- only difference is the theme it's based around. Not to mention, the advance movement is the exact same, plus the addition of crouch jumping.
@@SleeperJohns Its not just the shotgun. There's other stuff in Doom 3 that I don't like such as how slow the movement is, how annoying the screenshake is when we take damage, the dark and cramped level design where (even if Doom 3 had strafejumping on par with Q2) I wouldn't be able to strafejump around the maps.
Another thing I don't enjoy is the reading/listening to logs to get codes for lockers. I know they aren't necessary for progression, but my completionist OCD makes it have to do it.
And last, but not the least. Q2's multiplayer is far superior to Doom 3's. Not even a comparison there.
@@atifarshad7624 There is the player's ambition to not get hit. Sure, there might be some places that it's inevitable. Regardless, every enemy is telegraphed with their attacks. If you let them hit you, and you knew it was gonna happen - it's normally your fault anyways. I hate the screen shake too, but I oddly find it as a way of discipline in game design.
And no, I'm not saying get good, I'm saying, it's a game. If you make something have a purpose, then, it makes the element of "get good" rhetorical. Because you put the purpose somewhere to get good. And once you do that, then, it simply doesn't matter anymore. Screen shakes or not. But if it's just down right annoying, then, yeah, I see why it would be bad game design to you, but for me, things are different.
Strafe jumping is indeed hard, and has places in maps in the micro perspective within the campaign, but if you look at speedrunners (not saying you should take their word from what I'm saying), but they have a way to making that happen. I'm happy there is advance movement in the game, but I'm unhappy we don't get to utilize it a whole bunch like in Quake 2. At least it's there, even though there is literally no point in using it casually in playthroughs. I do, because it's muscle memory.
I have to agree 100% about your point with multiplayer, although I suck at the plain stuff like regular CTF, DMs and TDM. But Railwarz CTF? It's on another level, I'm into it, but the skill ceiling is wicked high vs regular CTF games. If you would try that mode, you'd lose your mind. The player base for that are literally cracked out and easily be mistaken as aimbots, when they're not. I've fallen prey to that as I gotten better and stuck with it, but... the skill ceiling is higher than normal, what do you expect? Lol
@@atifarshad7624 yeah, doom 3 is inferior but it's still a great game
I want Quake to be a kind of _The Outer Limits_ for first-person shooter games.
Every Quake installment would be an entirely different story, each one a new and compelling reason to shoot enemies in the face.
That's a fun idea! Since the IP after Quake 3 really liked putting other id Software characters in the game, it wouldn't be that far-fetched.
Nah I think they will be fine with they stick with a mix of Stroggs and Chtonians.
#rage is the real quake 4.
Not really, no.
The only problem of Ground Zero were the overtuned turrets, they were too accurate, too strong, too sturdy and too numerous, without them it would actually be a better version of original game. I absolutely loved the bosses.
The only problem of Reckoning was a bit lazy approach of "let's just stuff enemies behind every corner and crate, EVERY corner and crate, and make levels really cramped". I would not mind, it gave me a lot of tasty gib-em-all moments, but super-gladiators were just a big screw-up because of that - they basically oneshot you with a huge AoE on nightmare/hard, and because of how cramped levels are, there were plenty of situations when gladiator had a drop on you and you had no way to avoid that AoE.
Still, the xpacks were pretty rad.
Quake 2 was actually the last Quake game I played, definitely did not grow up with it and definitely missed out on the deathmatch days but I still find it super fun. One of my favourite shooters that I've replayed the most. For a while I even preferred it over the first game. Definitely don't have to be blinded by nostalgia to love the game.
Quake 2 isn't the best game out there but I almost can't understand not liking it or at least appreciating it if you do like other shooters of the era. I think of it as a sort of a middle ground between Quake and Unreal in terms of pace. Faster than Unreal but slower than Quake.
Very curious how you feel about Unreal now. I feel Unreal has a way better atmosphere but that Quake 2 is more fun in basically every way.
don't know dude, I first played the game in 2018, with a slightly negative bias thanks to the hub system, yet when I played it, I loved it, along with The Reckoning
Ground Zero is frustrating on any difficulty higher than normal
Word. I'm about to finish it on hard and it's pretty bad. That's why I wanted to see an interesting opinion on the expansions. Instead it's just this dude pissing and moaning about the game in general with an opinion that the vast majority of people don't agree with.
@@TheSoapyJew are you playing the Remaster? it fixes some Ground Zero issues
@@agbrenv haha oh yeah. Ive tried to play the original countless times and I always quit before I can even find my way out of the mines. So much backtracking and confusion.
@@TheSoapyJew yeah, Remaster has a compass/waypoint marker
and the turrets are nerfed (less HP, and a laser pointer so you know where they are placed)
@@agbrenv Holy crap. I can't imagine how bad that was. Its no wonder so few people have the achievement in steam for beating ground zero.
Call of The Machine is a perfect expansion, very varied in themes, Each mission you play a different marine being thrown into the battlefield with a drop pod scene in real time. Each one of them meet a different fate at the end of their operation. You even get to see some familiar faces from Quake 1 !
Hmm.. I didn’t have a problem with Q2 controls at all and I didn’t think the weapons were that bad. It’s a bit weird to hear someone call Q2 color palette “bland” after just showing video of king-of-bland Q1. But to each their own.
Amazing. Literally Everything you said was wrong but yeah to each their own
@@gogo_flamingo1346 Was it really?
Yes my son
Quake 1 had plenty of brown to go around, but still had other colors to break up the monotony in some places. E1M1 starts and ends with brown or tan in both the textures and enemies. By E1M3, you'd see a splash of green thrown in. Come E2M3, the brown style in textures takes more of a backseat for that level. Then E2M5 has blue and brown sharing the spotlight.
So on, so forth. Q1 has a lot of brown or similar colors in the spectrum (such as red or yellow), but the key that gets overlooked is that Q2 has the tech base architecture for virtually every level, which makes the brown stand out too well. Q1 only uses that visual style in the base game for the first level in every episode. While it certainly makes sense that the Strogg on their heavily industrialized planet would fantasize over every centimeter of their planet being brown, that doesn't automatically translate to instantly becoming tolerable to experience. At least not for someone who came to Q2 from Q1.
Were Q2's levels designed with varied architectural styles and added some "spice" to the colors - especially to tech bases - while still retaining the overall imposing idea of "alien cyborrg army wants to assimilate everyone," I don't think brown would be one of the bigger controversies that come up with the Q1-Q2 comparisons.
@@ScarletKobold agree
I personally prefer base Quake 2 over Quake 1. I don't think the weapons are as bad as you are making them out to be. The shotguns in quake 2 have slower fire rate, but in turn deal much more damage. The grenades and grenade launcher are also fine. The railgun is the best sniping weapon ever designed. The chaingun and machine gun I admit are annoying, but every other weapon is fine. The palette is too brown, but Quake 1 also has that issue. The hub system is personal preference and I don't mind either.
With that being said, i do agree that the mission packs of Quake 2 suck. Quake 1's were much better (I even prefer Scourge of Armagon over base Quake 1 and Dissolution of Eternity is also decent). In Quake 2's case, The Reckoning is just bland and low effort expansion. Ground Zero has much more effort put into it, but suffers from terrible gameplay decisions.
quake 2 mission packs aren't terrible, your channel is
Based.
Ground Zero is objectively terrible though... even when it was released, it got a 6/10. If it wasn't a Quake game, then it would have received an even worse reception. It's easily the weakest of all the expansion packs. Base game is great. Reackoning is decent enough (I really love the final few levels being in zero G). Ground Zero is just trash though. It doesn't really add anything new except for some annoying enemies and very gimmicky weapons.
Complaining when you don't know the controls or can't strategize at all shows the problem was the person behind the keyboard. The mission packs are boring but that is about it really.
Dude complains about wasting ammo with the chaingun like he can't plan around it and pull his finger from mouse1 when the enemy is about to die. Dude can't plan around the explosion delay with the grenades. Most of the complaints are "stupid Quake kills me if I fire the lightning gun underwater", just don't shoot the gun underwater.
Calling the railgun "fine" is crazy.
"The characters have no personality", nobody outside of Duke Nukem had a personality in shooters back in the day, and look where that got him.
Serious Sam was a Duke Nukem ripoff and it is also just as dead.
Gordon Freeman also has no personality.
I will give you that in regards to the art style it does have aged terribly, it is like being trapped in a bad mod for Fallout 3, a mod with actual gunplay and functional ladders, something bethesda has not figured out 17 years later.
"who would start a game with an underwater\sewer level?" Daikatana?
I am surprised you did not complain about the lack of headshot mechanic when it was not even invented yet.
Quake 2 is the game where Id Software was trying to create a linear story based on outside pressure regarding the other successful shooters at the time.
Complaining about the gunner shooting grenades when you had the entire normal campaign to adapt to it is rich, it is not like iD expected you to work around that mechanic by the SECOND MAP in the main campaign.
You could have edited this gameplay so you would look good and you still got shot twice with the gladiator railgun by walking straight instead of zig zagging.
If the turrets in the game are such a threat to you, never play the fallout franchise, or the FEAR franchise, or Doom 3.
Nobody cares that you are not on board, just make valid criticisms. Your lack of skill in regards to understanding that every enemy is a gimmick and that you are supposed to count your shots with the weapons to know what weapons is best for each enemy were rules for basically all 90s shooters.
You not supposed to use a chaingun on guards, you are not supposed to use a rocket launcher close to your face and you are not supposed to shoot the grenade launcher like it is a half life mp5.
The guards are training enemies. They are just fodder.
Enforcer is the training enemy in regards to variety in enemy shape and abilities, his trailing of the player character with his arm chaingun can be used against him if you make him shoot another enemy in the process.
The gunner is the enemy meant to make you not stand around, he trails you with the machinegun and you can use his explosives to do area of effect damage to enemies, causing infighting.
The Parasite is the area based life draining gimmick mostly present in RPGs through spells.
The berserker is the melee enemy that you can use as a shield from enemy fire, and his high health basically guarantees he will do a lot of damage to the enemy if he does not win the fight outright, which is a benefit to you.
The Medics are medics, they are meant to reinforce priority fire in battles with multiple big enemies.
The Tanks are just meant to tank your attacks, they are slow because they are meant to teach the player to prioritize the tank last whenever possible.
The gladiators punish straight movement.
The Barracuda is just the obligatory water enemy.
The fliers serve to teach the player early on that threats can be airborne, kinda like the flu.
The Iron Maiden is the woman enemy.
The technician shows that air based enemies can be tanky and adds visual variety.
The icarus is the ultimate air based threat.
The mutant is the beast type enemy with melee attacks and jumps, which punishes players who think the fact he is melee means he is a similar threat to the berserker.
The brains is the shield guy to teach location damage to the player, and also how to use the grenade bounce properly as he receives more damage in his back.
A lot of quake 2 characters were meant to invoke similar mechanics from Quake 1 as that was expected to happen by the audience at the time, the enemies were just adapted to the slower gameplay and flow of Quake 2.
I am not saying this philosophy was shared in the expansions because most likely these expansions were just a way for Carmack and iD to highlight other studios, as that was always part of Carmack's behavior, which is why he released the source code for every 3D engine a few years after it was released, so people could openly mod or use the engine for free.
the Remaster has redeemed 2 but the original was hated for a long time for good reason
I don't understand the critiques for the guns. They have a bit more depth and quirks to get used to, that's all.
The shotguns aren't that slow and nothing in the game is fast enough to make it an issue. The machine gun's recoil is easily manageable. The chaingun's cool because it makes you time when to stop by figuring out enemy's health. The grenades are useless anyway since there's a grenade launcher. It's also really not that slow firing.
The guns are great. It sounds like you're expecting it to play exactly like Quake and DOOM but it's not either of those games... it's a bit different.
Do you even read comments oftenly?This video itself is terrible. XD
Quake 2's engine has a 50 ms delay on all inputs. Input lag. John Carmack admitted later this was a mistake and never did that again. I never finished the single player but holy crap I had soooo much fun as a kid teen playing Quake 2 everyday after school with friends. I started my own clan for Quake 2.
Quake 2 is one of my favs games! I remember back in the day... thousand hours!! now I´m playing the remaster version and is so freaking GOOD!
It feels like it’s a delay between pressing the fire button and the game responding. It’s so clunky.
The complaints you're making, particularly in regards to the movement and weapons lacks any real merit, as there are ways to mitigate what you're experiencing.
You can cook your grenades, and stick to the small machine gun for single enemies. Why would you burn 50 rounds with the chaingun to blast a guard?
And lest I be remiss to acknowledge it, you have to adapt your playstyle. Not everything is COD where you have regenerating health. You make a mistake and you pay for it. You have to think about how to approach a room before moving in.
Your review is generally lazy, particularly because your opinion is lacking critical understanding of the context as to why Quake 2 is what it is in the first place, and how it came to be that way, having been developed at a certain tech period in the 90s... It's just as important as the game itself.
This comment is spot on. I have no idea what this guy is going on about in the video.
@@JohnVanRiperit is because he is younger and obviously didnt play these games when they released. He fundamentally misses the point at times. 🤣
Most of what you said is spot on, but the whole 90s vs COD thing doesn't make much sense given that he clearly does enjoy Quake 1. If anything his issue seems to be that it's not Quake 1, with its silly-fast shotgun reloads and more abstract design. He seems unwilling or unable to adapt his playstyle to the new enemy and weapon behaviors.
@@harbingerdawn Quake 1 gun play is barebones tho.
- Not much variety in terms of enemy roster: Tech Base? Dog, Grunt and Enforcer
Other maps? 40% Ogres, 20% Fiends, 10% Knights and the rest will depend on the episode.
- Some enemies can't even aim correctly if you are at a higher position than them: Shambler, Zombies, Ogre, effectively making them useless
- You only need to worry about using three guns: RL, SNG and SSG.
One thing I'll give credits tho is they knew how to mix enemy behavior with map geometry to make the gameplay more interesting in some situations.
I guess my point is, Q1 is pretty a simple minded game, it's a "head empty, no thoughts" game thanks to its repetitive factor.
2:51 Sounds more like you have a defective gun.
I enjoy Quake 2, but I do feel Quake 1 is better overall.
Not here, nor in hell
The best thing in Q2 is the music BY FAR.
Ground Zero was cheap AF with the high-damage hidden turrets, and that final boss was harder than most other FPS bosses I've ever faced!
the remaster made the turrets one-hit-kills with rockets or rails
@@corpusc OMG WHY
@@CSSLZT13 Late reply but I think you misunderstood.
The remaster nerfed the turrets to oblivion.
They can be destroyed with one single Rocket or Railgun shot, also you can actually tell where they are aiming to so they became easier to dodge + the predict your movement thing was toned down and finally damage was also nerfed.
@davidchez9376 I, uh, appreciate your response to my shock. I might actually go back and do the remaster on Nightmare, then, thanks a ton for the clarification, I got super scared it was the opposite, lol
@@CSSLZT13 If you already bought Quake 2, the remaster comes as a free update, you will be able to play the main campaign, Quake 64 campaign, both expansions and the new Call of the Machine campaign.
Why people want all the games to be colorful ? Quake 2 artstyle is amazing I really disagree with you
With the weapons I 100% disagree with the grenade launcher, I abuse the heck out of that by shooting around corners or to floors below me but it's a LIFE-SAVER during the Ground Zero map pack as 70% of the time if you fling a grenade around a corner, you'd probably hit a solider lying in wait, that map pack is the Dark Souls 2 of Quake 2 where it's just enemy ambush galore.
I always thought Quake II's weapons were amazing. They all have their strengths and weaknesses - like in Doom Eternal, but you think its a bad thing that you can't just use the same 3 weapons 90% of the time like in Quake I. I always found Quake I's weapons to be flawed because you'll just be using the ssg, sng, and rocket launcher almost the entire game since all of the other guns are just lesser versions of the main 3, besides the thunderbolt, which is your BFG. So in Quake I you actually only have 3 weapons - in brutal contrast to Quake II having 7 weapons you use regularly.
trent reznor felt the same
Quake 2 having bad controls?... What?
I mentioned this in another video, Quake 2 is a game I want to love but it is in fact somehow kinda boring. It's fun at first until you realize the levels are all very samey. It becomes a game I try to force myself to play through rather than actually enjoying like I do with Quake 1. I have fond memories of Quake 2 on the N64 when I played that as a kid since it had better atmosphere.
The fact you are not good at it, doesn’t mean the game is bad. 😂
Eh, never had a problem with Quake 2. Not id's best game but certainly not their worst. I don't think the weapons are nearly as bad as you say they are. They all have their pro's and con's. You showed yourself using the chaingun on a bunch of low level enemies. I don't think that is what the gun was made for. Also, I don't think the grenade is meant for throwing directly at enemies. It's a weapon to bounce off walls and objects while you are being pinned down. Same with the faster acting grenade launcher. It's pretty much the same weapon as Quake 1's. Also, also, why are you trying to run over enemies that aren't dead yet?
As for the color palette, the game is just an extension of the Quake engine. It was many of the enhancements that Carmack made to the Quake engine over the years into a new game. That is why you have a very limited color palette. It's directly from Quake 1 and is there for software rendering. The Quake 3 engine was rewritten and doesn't use the software renderer. That is why that engine was able to have so many different colors. No limitations from the first engine. Quake 2 was heavily optimized for online play, which is honestly where I spent the most time with it.
Although I don't think everyone has to have the same opinions on games, I find it weird how you love Heretic, which has some of the crappiest weapons and enemies ever, but nitpick the hell out of Hexen and Quake 2. I'm looking forward to when you inevitably get back to reviewing Doom 3. Now that is a boring crap id game... and I was on Doom3world everyday learning the mod the engine... which was put to *way* better use with Quake 4 and Prey.
"Quake 2 sucks because they fucked up the guns"
Stopped watching the video right there, Quake 1's guns also feel like shit too. The super shotgun in Quake 1 is one of the worst shotguns I ever used.
I really loved quake 2 and still do. A lot of these compliments just feel like knit picking from people who are just bad at that game, who can't deal with a bit of higher skill requirements
I got into Quake about 3 or 4 years ago and overall I do like Quake 2. I don't think it's the greatest game ever made but I like it. Quake 2 has a "woah, rock 'n roll dude! Pizza! Fight the cyborgs!" sitting in a beanbag chair type attitude which I think is fun as well. It doesn't take itself too seriously.
*My Dislikes:*
-The parasite is a royal pain and I don't think it was that fair to include it at the beginning of the game.
-The hand grenades I hardly ever use, I only use them early on because I don't have the grenade launcher yet. Only when I have a surplus to burn through or I'm running low on ammo for my other weapons. They're good for chucking around corners where you know an enemy is going to ambush you and with a bit of skill, you can insta-kill any weaker enemy type.
-I love the soundtrack, the soundtrack is awesome, my only issue is I can only listen to non-stop thrash for so long until it starts giving me a headache. That's one of the things I've come to appreciate more about Half-Life is that the music doesn't play non-stop, there is pacing and variety so my brain gets a chance to breathe.
*My Favorites:*
-I love Quake 2's railgun. It handles great once you learn how to aim with it and I think it looks cool. I like the hose off to the side and the electronics exposed, it's very unique and gives you the feeling of how industrial and experimental it is. Kind of like Half-Life 1's tau cannon with it's exposed circuit boards and its blue water bottle. Quake 3's railgun does have the sound cue when a new shot is ready but it doesn't look or feel as nice in my opinion. There's no exposed hose and it's very stiff. In Quake 2 it has that kind of reloading pump animation.
-I like some of the designs of the enemies like the gladiators and the tanks with treads. They're crazy and fun.
-I like the added touch of the flies coming for dead bodies and my favorite death animation is one for the enforcer. It's the one where his head falls off and he's still firing helplessly with his chaingun arm as he wobbles to the floor.
*My Takes:*
-Playing for the first time I'd lose interest around the ammo depot at the beginning because it's pretty dull all around. Quake 2 becomes more enjoyable once you have more weapons and you understand how the handling works.
-Other than the hand grenades, I don't have much beef with Quake 2's arsenal. The pistol is baby's first gun and is only good for shooting buttons later on. The standard shotgun is only good later on if you want to be more conservative with shotgun ammo. The machinegun and chaingun handling is odd at first but once you get a feel for them they're alright. It's bliss when you time the wind down on the chaingun exactly right when mowing down a horde of bad guys. Doom 3's arsenal is where I think Id Software sh** the bed because the gunplay is so poor. (Once you mod Doom 3 in all of the right places though it starts become more enjoyable and feel like the other Doom games. Idc if anyone likes stock Doom 3, that's fine with me, enjoy it, not an attack. I personally like the rest of the Dooms so that's what I go for).
-There's an AI upscaled texture pack that I use to make the game look a bit better. It takes the original textures and increases the resolution so they're sharp and clear. (Quake 2 doesn't look as good with or without texture filtering imo). It may not help the art style if it's still not your taste but it helps to make it look better.
*The Reckoning:*
I played it once, I don't remember much gameplay-wise, I remember locations. I don't think it's tooo bad overall. That one underwater trap is awful it's inexcusable, and there's a new guard time that can whittle your health down in seconds which is B.S. I haven't played Ground Zero yet so idk. The mission packs do have some nice new music, I like Counter Attack and Stealth Frag. The boomerang gun kinda sucks, I'd forget I had it. The other explosive gun looks out of place graphically but it shoots out cluster explosions which is fun.
Just finished playing Quake 2. Technically, I should say it is much better from Quake 1
You can't retroactively get into Quake2. As someone who played all ID games, Quake2 was and still is legendary in my eyes. As for weapons, the rocket launcher was slowed down because in Quake1 it was ridiculously fast and the best weapon in the game. I find it funny how you like the rocket launcher yet compared to Quake1 the rocket launcher was massively nerfed 😀In Quake2 you can actually use weapons more strategically, the rocket launcher is not end all be all. Btw. love your kiwi accent 😃
I just played it for the first time and I honestly loved it, I like it as much as quake 1 and even prefer the faster pace of Quake 2 honestly. So it is possible to still get into quake 2. Q2 feels like a blend of Quake 1 with combat closer to that of classic Doom's to me.
@@BEkov-kd8cf maybe I should have stated that as "I can understand why people would have a hard time getting into quake2 retroactively"
you f-ed up bro both mission packs had a unique boss fight so I have no idea what you played.
I hate quake 2 and also suck at it: The Video
"...and also don't understand the meaning of an 'expansion pack.'"
I totally agree. I played it quite a lot back in the day but it always felt dull, claustrophobic and tedious. Quake 1 was better.
So you defend the Shotgun in Doom 3 despite it is shit, yet crap all over the shotgun in Quake 2? Logical.
Quake 2 is my favorite first person shooter.
I dont like modern shooters and the mechanics they use, regen health, reloading, slow paced, no exploration.
Bruh, are you really bitching about an FPS made in the late 90s? Yeah, these mission packs don't have the level structure of the base Quake II, or its relatively forgiving difficulty, but it adds a whole ton of stuff and it makes for a pretty decent expansion. The thing is, Quake II is an upgrade of the first Quake, and as it is, it's a technological marvel, as well as a pretty good shooter on its own. Of course, most people will prefer the first one because it has more going on in terms of atmosphere and that's fine, but if Quake II is the weakest game ID Software can provide, then i'd say that's more than fine. In other words, get good and get real. You don't like it? Go play any other FPS.
Quake II is my favorite
2:12 Actually they messed it up, rockets fly much much slower than in quake 1, where in fact rocket launcher was ultimate weapon, because of really short weapon roaster and rare ammo for shaft.
2:23 Hyperblaster suffers from doom like cooldown, but when in doom cooldown was purely visual, in quake when you finish fire to one direction and cease fire to not waste your ammo, and then you want to fire in different direction you cant do it immediately , because weapon actully cooling down, even if you literaly shoot only one cell from it.
It sounds like you shouldn't even have played the mission packs since you disliked the base game in the first place.
I didn't like Quake 1 so I obviously didn't play the mission packs, because they're not gonna make me love that game.
I've never heard so much nonsense before in my life. Quake 2 feels great.
Despite Quake 2 being my entry to the series when I was a kid, I always felt that Unreal 1 was a much better Quake 2 than the actual Quake 2. Even Daikatana (preferably with fixer patches) is a better Quake 2 game. DUSK is also a good contender though it’s more akin to something like Quake’s Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night or Ion Maiden.
I came here to learn about the mission packs.
Ended up watching a whole video about a guy with skill issues trying to trash Quake 2 by saying "Quake 1 better"
Just because the game has a different play style compared to the brown corridor shooter that is Quake 1 does not make it worse.
Quake 1 is still good, I played it after Quake 2, and the honest truth is that they offer different experiences with different mechanics so they cannot really be compared.
Quake 2 has the name of Quake only because ID had no time to come up with a new name. It was meant to be a brand new IP.
6:54 yes, actually
Always loved Q2 more that the first one. Replayed recently both games with all mission packs and god damn Q1 is way more fun, aged better, smoother and precise movement, and over all much more fun to play.
I recently played through Quake 2 and it's expansions for the first time and I thought it was amazing. Maybe the remaster fixed some things though.
The Remaster did fix some issues, but that was mainly in regards to Ground Zero. The Reckoning did nerf the health of the Beta Class Gladiators but that's about it.
Ground Zero had more annoying Stalkers and some seriously messed up balance with the turrets. Turrets in the remaster are a joke compared to the original Ground Zero.
Okay, but like no joke. You're playing horribly. I'm not even a Quake fanboy. I only recently started playing Quake 2 for the first time a few days ago! I love the base game (except for the Palace level, which is a pain how it's designed). The Reaconing was my favorite mission pack. Can't stand Ground Zero though... ughhh
'this game is slow because i dont know how to dodge grenades half the time' Granted it's not always possible in tight spaces, but it's purely a skill issue in every other circumstance
It seems you got too used to Quake 1
i get yawn-attacks just from thinking about this game.
“How did iD Software fuck up the guns & gameplay?!” Cause their boy John R. was off fucking up a Big Game called Big Sword by himself, fucking up Big Time because he now had to handle the things he wasn’t good at by himself. Quake II was a total turkey, but iD Software with their reputation could take a mulligan. Daikatana was an overcooked turkey game running on a turkey engine well past it’s “sell by” date.
The moment you said that the chaingun in Q2 has recoil, I lost interest, cuz you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Yes, it has a wind-up/wind-down, but it has never had recoil.
q2 was more about the multiplayer anyhow.
@Wesitos_Takanashi both
I always thought Quake 1 looked brown and blue, and now I see that Quake 2 is just... orange. Dull, dull, dull, dull, DULL!
Yes Quake I is very dull, retarded moaning moster, crappy wanna-be doom weapons etc. I mean Quake I is a joke. Quake II at least tries to be something.
Quake 2 is better in all regards. Not saying quake is bad, but quake 2 is quake with a lot of improvements. For me it sounds that you don't like quake 2 because you heard it before and want to jump on that train.
boy did this video age terribly xD
Man, that time back Q2 was one of the best and one of the most popular FPSs beside Q1 and it's mission packs... And we loved all mission packs that time. "Additional content, wow!", we Quake fans told (alike with Red Alert, C&C and Carmageddon expansions: Covert Operations, Aftermath, Counterstrike, Splat Pack). And the multiplayer was crowned with new multi maps as well... Ofc, not comparable with the Y2Ks and nowdays (it was better ;).
The Quake 2 mission packs (at least the original ones before Call of the Machine) suffer the same problem that games like Final Doom do. They're intentionally designed to discourage playing them the way you would play the base games. Which, in turn, makes it kind of dickish in the way they were designed. Quake 2 is generally a consistently-paced game where you are more or less always on the move from location to location--but the mission packs require the player to either: A) know beforehand where everything is going to come at you, or B) slowly inch into each room to avoid damage from bad enemy placement. Quake 2 mission packs are hard not because of challenge, but because you're intentionally hampered along the way.
It happens time and again that enemies will be hidden in alcoves that no logical enemy would be in, or they will pop-out of hidden walls behind you, or turrets will be placed above and behind you when you enter a room--the list goes on. My personal favorite is the overutilization of the railgun enemies--who you will almost always run across when you're in a narrow passage/narrow walkway, leaving you with limited ability to avoid them. This is just like Final Doom; which relied on a plethora of Revenants to increase player frustration. Case in point--no base Quake 2 level on Medium skill had more than 71 enemies in it--Ground Zero levels can have over 120. Throwing hordes of tough, annoying enemies you have to hide from and peek around corners to do damage, is a poor substitute for a well-designed challenge. Not the mention the enemies with shields, which are just there to soak
up your ammo and slow you down more. The grunts with the hit-scanning lasers are annoying too, as are those stupid spiders.
Then there's the final boss of Ground Zero--which is just a hit-scanning tanky enemy, that will also continuously spawn help against you. The main strategy that people suggest for this?: "Well, use the Quad Damage and Invulnerability that you (hopefully) found in an earlier level."
The 2023 Remastered version does provide a waypoint guide to tell you where to go. But its two main negative points are that it added back the Berserker's leap attack, which is overpowered and unpredictable. It also nerfed the Railgun's strength and make it pretty much useless against anything beyond the base grunts. It should not take 3 railgun shots to kill those annoying spiders.
The expansions were rebalanced on the remaster and the biggest issue with Ground Zero was fixed: Turrets became "lowkey" fun to destroy since a well placed Rocket / Railgun shot is all you need.
Side note: The shielded enemies, either Power Shielded or Regular Shield, can be dealt with Plasma Weapons.
Also, the Black Widow strategy of just use everything is not that great.
--in 1998 it was awesome --i ended this thing in nightmare over and over again
I can see the point of your critiques and I have learned what not to do while designing an FPS, specially making dying enemies blocking the way, making the shotguns slower than classic Doom's or giving weapons ridiculous amounts of recoil.
Having said that, I cannot wait for this game to be re-released for its 30th anniversary on modern platforms. 🤣
I totally don’t agree. Quake 1 was nothing but a 3D engine demo (what is the story behind Q1?). Quake 2 was actually... not to be a quake sequel! It’s a totally different game and I love it.
It was a different time FP; ran well on what you would call pedestrian speed PC's with essentially primate video by todays standards. I can proudly say that original Quake II and the mission pack CD's are still within arms reach from where I'm typing this comment (albeit I would need to plug in my USB DVD drive to read them) . I also have it bundled with a physical copy of Quake 4 and have Quake II RTX on steam.
8:00 I mean...you could just jump over the corpses lol
Personally I enjoyed Quake 2, however not as much as the other Quake games and I don't find it too replayable. I agree with many of your points as I also had some of the same issues with Quake 2. I haven't played the mission packs yet, but they don't look too interesting, although if I will get ever get a fever to play Quake 2 again I might try them.
I did have a lot of fun playing Q2 multiplayer with friends so that will always be a great classic fps experience to me. I loved Q1 too but Q2 JUST edges it out for me for multiplayer. Campaign is no contest though Q1 campaign is way more fun than Q2.
You go full Gmanlives when talking about Redneck Rampage lol
By your own description I can tell you're playing the game wrong. No wonder you don't like it.
With the exception of the Nailguns versus the Machine Gun and Chaingun, and preferring Quake I's basic Shotgun to the Blaster for a starting weapon I generally prefer Quake II's guns to their Quake I counterparts. The Quake II Super Shotgun is easily my favorite of the Super Shotguns from Doom II, Quake I, and Quake II. I also like that both the original Quake II expansions make it easy to obtain a Shotgun before engaging the enemy. I also prefer Quake II's story because I prefer scifi to fantasy and Quake I's setting was much more fantasy.
I don't agree with your complaints about Quake 2's weapons. The "downsides" are there to balance the game and make every gun situational.
Blaster is good for tapping light foes from afar or detonating explosives without wasting ammo. Also works as a flashlight in underwater sections.
Shotgun is faster than SuperShotgun but does way less damage and is more precise - use it for low-tier enemies to dispatch them fast one by one or to deal damage from further away without wasting so much ammo.
Super Shotgun is very powerful but slow and has massive spread - use it to slaughter low-tier enemies in bulk from up close or to deal with tougher enemies, but you'll have to be mobile to avoid getting hit between shots. You can also crouch in front of an enemy and launch them up using it. With Quad damage you can throw Tanks into pits!
Machinegun has very high recoil but doesn't eat ammo so fast - use it for lower trier enemies, for flying ones or for finishing up tougher foes.
Minigun has a wind down and eats ammo like a dog eats ham - use it to get yourself out of a bad situation or tap the trigger to fire a short series of shots to deal with lower-tier enemies. Mind the wind-down and you'll be fine.
HyperBlaster is a bit like Minigun, but more accurate and has a wind-up if you stop firing it - this makes it so you need to plan your shots to not be caught off guard.
Grenade launcher is firing much faster than your hand but doesn't let you cook grenades - use it for killing tougher enemies behind corners or cover. Throw nades manually on weaker enemies with tightly controlled explosion timing.
The fact that throwing granades takes time to prepare means you need to prepare them behind a corner and only expose yourself to enemy when you're ready to throw.
Rocket launcher is firing very slow projectiles but is good for enemies who can't move too much and are far away, or who are running at you down a corridor. Just don't use it when they get too close - switch to Minigun to not kill yourself with splash damage.
I find it fun to choose the best gun for the job and learn how to use them effectively.
I think id did this, because in Quake the weapons were quite uninspired. You had two guns which were pretty much straight upgrades for another two Super Shotgun and Super Nailgun), making large part of the arsenal redundant. This still would happen in Quake 2 if they didn't give the guns unique downsides and quirks that make them play differently and not just be a better version of another gun.
While I do think that Quake 2 is a great game, it's not a near perfect game like the original Quake. It's not bad by any means, but it factually feels worse to play and ironically aged worse than its predecessor.
Quake 2 marked the beginning of Tim Willets running Id software into the ground. Because of him, they basically became a non-factor in the dev scene until Doom 2016. The most outrageous thing about it is that he has this smug sense of accomplishments about his time at Id.
Doom 3 did nothing?
@@avernus_a3 That's not what they said at all, lol, just that id's influence waned in those years heavily.
I mean, doom 3 used good tech but, to be honest, I don't think its impact as a game was nearly as big as most other id games released before or after this era (minus quake 3 and wolfenstein lol, but iirc the latter series was being developed by third parties by that point). Say what you will about it being bad or good, the most impact that I think it had was in terms of tone and aesthetic, but even then it seems to be mostly remembered for how weird it is in a franchise like doom from what I've seen lol (though obvs that might be different if you frequent different circles).
@@dooplon5083 he specifically said dev scene and to deny impact of doom3 in terms of tech it provides is to simply be disingenuous...
Tim Willits made one of the best maps for Doom I. He basically kept id software alive until they sold it to Bethesda. John Carmack leaving almost made no difference at this point 'cause the engine technology is so advanced they don't need him. Tim Willits is boss. All hail Tim Willits.
@@dooplon5083 "I mean, doom 3 used good tech but, to be honest, I don't think its impact as a game was nearly as big as most other id games"
Doom 3 is the most sold out id game of all time you with 3.5 million copies you delusional doofus.
There's 2 other expansions, Quake 2 Juggernaut and Xaero
Playing through ground zero right now and i like how it starts with tons of enemies immediately but the turrets suck if your out of rockets
the remaster made the turrets one-hit-kills with rockets or rails
i didnt see a single bunny hop the whole review, im sorry I cannot take anything you say about quake games seriously
It's possible to play and enjoy the quake games without bunny hopping lol.
lmao hurr durr keep malding over bhopping
If one were the sort to only play for the campaign content like I did back then, I don't think anyone would know bunny hopping was a thing without searching for speedruns. Last I checked, it's not even documented in the manual. Even further, why would you be required to know how to bunny hop - which can take quite a bit of time to practice being consistent at - to play the campaign as a non-speedrunner?
Whenever you mention Xatrix you always talk about Redneck Rampage and Return to Castle Wolfenstein but you forgot one game that they also made.. one that was in between those two said games.. "Kingpin: Life of Crime" from 1999 that runs on Quake 2's engine and it makes Quake 2 look decent in comparison due to how tanky enemies can be especially on higher difficulties.
There's something to it. Q1 I finished recently with great pleasure but when it comes to Q2 even rtx or XP version does not help. I like this game but it quickly starts to bore me and somehow I can never finish it. It seems to me that it is about moving and gunplay.
It's strange. Quake 2 has stronger memories for me, possibly because I was using the Internet more frequently compared to when Quake 1 launched, and so most of the mods I downloaded and played were for Quake 2.
Bot support for multiplayer was also better (I was 11 at the time on dial-up so online multiplayer wasn't really viable).
However, nowadays it is Quake 1 that I will fire up and play when I have a few minutes of downtime at work, and I haven't bothered touching Quake 2 in years.
I think you're right that it just feels better to play, and I actually prefer the overall look of Quake's software rendered graphics at high resolution vs Quake 2's GPU-accelerated graphics. Quake 2 suffers from that blurry look that early GPU accelerated games suffered from.
you can turn off the texture blurring in the remaster. for those crunchy pixels. called Texture Smoothing
Did Quake 2 have vertical auto aim like Quake 1 did for keyboard only players?
I always throw grenades to bounce off walls around the corner, ideally before I'm noticed.