One thing Jeff mentioned is actually something I’m happy to hopefully not see happen anymore. The scooping to ones friends/fellow locals so their friend can beat out the other kid that doesn’t have that big local friend group. It happened to my son so much at cups by other masters that are local to whatever kid and it always felt so bad. They’d see my out of town kid and immediately create a plan to scoop to their local kid so their local kid has a shot at beating mine out of 1st. This was frequent because we aren’t so lucky to have a plethora of shops nearby. Each weekend we have to drive 2.5 hours to a major city in opposite directions to play at cups and challenges. So we are always the out of towners everywhere we go.
Great point Lynn about kids wanting to be playing. The new format has had me see 1-2 Juniors TOPS in Challenges and Cups. Imagine going to a month of leagues and Cups and logging into your Play! account and seeing 0CP total? Oh, and the other kids cheer against you when you play those 3-4 events against adults. Doesn't sound like much fun.
Jeff, that was a tough conversation at the 26:00 mark. I said that exact same thing to my daughter when she started last year, to the conversation this last weekend of 'you don't get CP anymore for playing against adults and showing up to compete'.
This is all coming from a player who played many years in the lower age divisions. It is comically easy to qualify for worlds as a junior or senior. The players who really get to go to worlds are those who have rich families who can leave their jobs and spend thousands on trips every year. That doesn’t really change here. If you can travel to worlds then you can probably travel to enough events to qualify for it, especially with the free prize money. It should be harder to qualify in the lower divisions. This atleast selects the best of the affluent children who travel to events. Should Keith’s daughter who just started learning the game this year and went 0-7 really get to qualify for worlds? Should an invite to the World Championships really be a promise given to new players and their families? I think it’s better now for the lower divisions where you at least have to put up good finishes even if you travel to 5 regionals and an IC each season. I’d like to see the lower divisions be better precursors to masters success than how it is now where 90% of worlds players never day2 in masters.
As a poke parent of a master and newish player, just want to echo the thanks at the end for how valuable this resource is - really insightful and interesting episode
So, didn't feel you got a very large spread of poke parent outlooks there. As a European pokeDad with somewhat more limited resources i didn't really relate to much of what was said. The emphasis on the worlds goal seemed really weird, With worlds in Japan and then Hawaii my son's only plausible qualification route was to win a regional to earn enough to get there. But regionals and ICs are amazing events and the absolute highlights of my sons year, meeting the kids he only sees once a year. He's super excited by the fact that kids will have a guranteed day 2 now, making a day 2 in a really good goal. What i say to my kid is "journey before destination"
My jr kid would honestly prob not have played pokemon if this were the structure when he started the hobby. The grandeur of worlds makes working hard such a good lure for kiddos. My son literally just picked up the game in December and since we were half way through the year we had to go all in really quick from learning to play to immediately signing up for Charlotte regionals within a couple weeks if he wanted to get to worlds. Crazily he top 4’d Charlotte, the largest jr turnout ever. He then went to NAIC (his 3rd tournament ever after only playing the game a few mos and top 8’d that with a rogue deck not one other person was playing) So he just had that natural skill for the game. But kids like my kid could be missing out on the hobby this year and maybe we won’t see the new “ Tords”being brought up in the game. We could only afford to go to those two or three tournaments because they were somewhat driving distance from Tx (10hrs vs the majority of the regionals which are in the NE and are 20hrs). Now a kid like mine that obviously has the skill and natural knack for the game may not make worlds again because we can’t afford to go to anything that’s not a drive away which is pretty much everything but NAIC and one regional.
Love the idea of this but it’s hard to feel bad for the younger groups. They were often given invites to worlds just for showing up to local events and getting points bc they were the only ones in that age group.
I can tell you that as a parent who just had his 8 year old daughter join the community that not awarding CP to Juniors where there are only TWO juniors created a moment where a child was openly cheering against an 8 year old because one got 50 points and the other got 0. These are kids. She has been in multiple tournaments now and is one of the only 2 Juniors each time. If she doesn't win out, it is 0 CP. There is no best of four locally or even at the Cup. If the new format will have the Kicker meaning that Juniors will be cheering against each other because of huge stakes then maybe another hobby is the better route. This new format wasn't fun. Keith you are right, the giggling and fun is going to go down when kids realize that it's all or nothing with CP because of Kickers.
I understand where people are coming from and i agree it's not a great system but it was absurdly easy for junior/ seniors to qualify in the past. Imo kids just getting points for showing up was like just giving them a participation trophey. I'll be honest i don't know what the perfect solution is, this probably isn't it but at least it requires more effort than just being there sometimes. And I'll be honest the whole tangent about scooping to people just to get them points is kind of lame. That's just giving them a handout they didn't earn. Yeah it's a nice thing to do i get that but we all know the real world isn't nice. Just kind of sets kids up to fail for a short term dose of feeling good. I feel even children should be required to earn their spot just like anyone else, just getting handouts isn't the way to go.
i know people want the top players only at worlds cause they like watching them play the top players will always get there i think to show some people who work hard and show a normal person can get there is way better for the community cause people will group up and make a push to get that invite and kids will notice that fun is being taken away to get the invite which in the long run we wont have such a big community
Regionals have great prices? While obviously not all states have them, but there are layers below worlds someone can aim for. The winner of a state championship back around 05/06 got like 300 usd stipend and a box. basically an apple and an egg. The prices nowadays, are great^^
@@Scharrer23 not for juniors/seniors. The prizing is great for Masters where there are >2000 players. they cap junior/seniors at a small number and it results in drastically less prizes for them
This video reeks of entitlement. Worlds is ment to be exclusive, you do have to have the skill, time and money to put into it. You shouldnt just be able to make worlds with in two years of casual play. You wouldnt expect to be the best at anything else (sports, music, etc.) after a few years. The lower divisions are spoonfed loads of points just for showing up to local leagues already, things needed to change. Its really unhealthy for kids to only be playing something expecting to be the best. Teach your kid to enjoy the game and get better. Make the push for worlds on occasion when possible. Dont blame pokemon for your burn out or hurt feelings, thats ridiculous.
thats why pokemon has age divisions - the kids don't have to be the best overall they have to be the best in people with simmilar experience. That elitist BS hurt so many games before and it will hurt Pokemon. And without the masses if you think the pros will get their ad revenue, their sponsorings their big prizeouts etc you're kidding yourself
@dominikspangenberg9712 Your first point proves nothing. Your second point is just wrong. No one is being elitist. It's just how competition goes. Pokemon is putting these rules in place because they are too successful right now. With so many people playing, too many people are qualifying for worlds. It's not sustainable and not what pokemkn want, and that's ok. Worlds is exclusive, and I doubt this will make a dent to their bottom line. The people who quit pokemon over this are not the people they should want playing the game. People who enjoy playing and don't take every achievement for granted are the true community. Teach your kids that before anything else.
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One thing Jeff mentioned is actually something I’m happy to hopefully not see happen anymore. The scooping to ones friends/fellow locals so their friend can beat out the other kid that doesn’t have that big local friend group. It happened to my son so much at cups by other masters that are local to whatever kid and it always felt so bad. They’d see my out of town kid and immediately create a plan to scoop to their local kid so their local kid has a shot at beating mine out of 1st. This was frequent because we aren’t so lucky to have a plethora of shops nearby. Each weekend we have to drive 2.5 hours to a major city in opposite directions to play at cups and challenges. So we are always the out of towners everywhere we go.
Great point Lynn about kids wanting to be playing. The new format has had me see 1-2 Juniors TOPS in Challenges and Cups. Imagine going to a month of leagues and Cups and logging into your Play! account and seeing 0CP total? Oh, and the other kids cheer against you when you play those 3-4 events against adults. Doesn't sound like much fun.
Jeff, that was a tough conversation at the 26:00 mark. I said that exact same thing to my daughter when she started last year, to the conversation this last weekend of 'you don't get CP anymore for playing against adults and showing up to compete'.
This is all coming from a player who played many years in the lower age divisions. It is comically easy to qualify for worlds as a junior or senior. The players who really get to go to worlds are those who have rich families who can leave their jobs and spend thousands on trips every year. That doesn’t really change here. If you can travel to worlds then you can probably travel to enough events to qualify for it, especially with the free prize money. It should be harder to qualify in the lower divisions. This atleast selects the best of the affluent children who travel to events. Should Keith’s daughter who just started learning the game this year and went 0-7 really get to qualify for worlds? Should an invite to the World Championships really be a promise given to new players and their families? I think it’s better now for the lower divisions where you at least have to put up good finishes even if you travel to 5 regionals and an IC each season. I’d like to see the lower divisions be better precursors to masters success than how it is now where 90% of worlds players never day2 in masters.
As a poke parent of a master and newish player, just want to echo the thanks at the end for how valuable this resource is - really insightful and interesting episode
So, didn't feel you got a very large spread of poke parent outlooks there. As a European pokeDad with somewhat more limited resources i didn't really relate to much of what was said. The emphasis on the worlds goal seemed really weird, With worlds in Japan and then Hawaii my son's only plausible qualification route was to win a regional to earn enough to get there. But regionals and ICs are amazing events and the absolute highlights of my sons year, meeting the kids he only sees once a year. He's super excited by the fact that kids will have a guranteed day 2 now, making a day 2 in a really good goal. What i say to my kid is "journey before destination"
I did reach out specifically to parents who chase an invite to talk on the new structure, and that definitely did ignore some groups
My jr kid would honestly prob not have played pokemon if this were the structure when he started the hobby. The grandeur of worlds makes working hard such a good lure for kiddos. My son literally just picked up the game in December and since we were half way through the year we had to go all in really quick from learning to play to immediately signing up for Charlotte regionals within a couple weeks if he wanted to get to worlds. Crazily he top 4’d Charlotte, the largest jr turnout ever. He then went to NAIC (his 3rd tournament ever after only playing the game a few mos and top 8’d that with a rogue deck not one other person was playing) So he just had that natural skill for the game. But kids like my kid could be missing out on the hobby this year and maybe we won’t see the new “ Tords”being brought up in the game. We could only afford to go to those two or three tournaments because they were somewhat driving distance from Tx (10hrs vs the majority of the regionals which are in the NE and are 20hrs). Now a kid like mine that obviously has the skill and natural knack for the game may not make worlds again because we can’t afford to go to anything that’s not a drive away which is pretty much everything but NAIC and one regional.
im glad they have a hard cap this year esp for junior / senior. they let 'going to worlds' get to their head when reality their dog at the game...
Love the idea of this but it’s hard to feel bad for the younger groups. They were often given invites to worlds just for showing up to local events and getting points bc they were the only ones in that age group.
They also have way more info available at their finger tips than we had as kids.
I'm interested to see the CP rewards system this year, as that could be an alternative set of goals to worlds
I sure hope it's good because that'll be where my goals are
I can tell you that as a parent who just had his 8 year old daughter join the community that not awarding CP to Juniors where there are only TWO juniors created a moment where a child was openly cheering against an 8 year old because one got 50 points and the other got 0. These are kids. She has been in multiple tournaments now and is one of the only 2 Juniors each time. If she doesn't win out, it is 0 CP. There is no best of four locally or even at the Cup. If the new format will have the Kicker meaning that Juniors will be cheering against each other because of huge stakes then maybe another hobby is the better route. This new format wasn't fun. Keith you are right, the giggling and fun is going to go down when kids realize that it's all or nothing with CP because of Kickers.
They need to work in secundary tournaments, that make special to play for chikds !
Great video. I hope one of the head honchos in bellvue see this.
I understand where people are coming from and i agree it's not a great system but it was absurdly easy for junior/ seniors to qualify in the past. Imo kids just getting points for showing up was like just giving them a participation trophey. I'll be honest i don't know what the perfect solution is, this probably isn't it but at least it requires more effort than just being there sometimes.
And I'll be honest the whole tangent about scooping to people just to get them points is kind of lame. That's just giving them a handout they didn't earn. Yeah it's a nice thing to do i get that but we all know the real world isn't nice. Just kind of sets kids up to fail for a short term dose of feeling good. I feel even children should be required to earn their spot just like anyone else, just getting handouts isn't the way to go.
Best co-hosts of all time
i know people want the top players only at worlds cause they like watching them play the top players will always get there i think to show some people who work hard and show a normal person can get there is way better for the community cause people will group up and make a push to get that invite and kids will notice that fun is being taken away to get the invite which in the long run we wont have such a big community
Why are there no state/country Championships with good prizes? It has been too easy to qualify for worlds and nothing below it to aim for.
They ran them years ago and they seemed to dislike it because they've never gone back
Regionals have great prices? While obviously not all states have them, but there are layers below worlds someone can aim for. The winner of a state championship back around 05/06 got like 300 usd stipend and a box. basically an apple and an egg. The prices nowadays, are great^^
@@Scharrer23 not for juniors/seniors. The prizing is great for Masters where there are >2000 players. they cap junior/seniors at a small number and it results in drastically less prizes for them
This video reeks of entitlement. Worlds is ment to be exclusive, you do have to have the skill, time and money to put into it. You shouldnt just be able to make worlds with in two years of casual play. You wouldnt expect to be the best at anything else (sports, music, etc.) after a few years. The lower divisions are spoonfed loads of points just for showing up to local leagues already, things needed to change. Its really unhealthy for kids to only be playing something expecting to be the best. Teach your kid to enjoy the game and get better. Make the push for worlds on occasion when possible. Dont blame pokemon for your burn out or hurt feelings, thats ridiculous.
thats why pokemon has age divisions - the kids don't have to be the best overall they have to be the best in people with simmilar experience.
That elitist BS hurt so many games before and it will hurt Pokemon. And without the masses if you think the pros will get their ad revenue, their sponsorings their big prizeouts etc you're kidding yourself
@dominikspangenberg9712 Your first point proves nothing. Your second point is just wrong. No one is being elitist. It's just how competition goes. Pokemon is putting these rules in place because they are too successful right now. With so many people playing, too many people are qualifying for worlds. It's not sustainable and not what pokemkn want, and that's ok. Worlds is exclusive, and I doubt this will make a dent to their bottom line. The people who quit pokemon over this are not the people they should want playing the game. People who enjoy playing and don't take every achievement for granted are the true community. Teach your kids that before anything else.
@@dominikspangenberg9712 how is the top 75 players in an age division not the best people in the divison
@@chadweasly2261 cause mid results at 3 ics waaaay outclases 6 good results at regios.