Poke parent here. When I watched what Ian did on stream, I thought instantly a penalty is coming so yeah, what he did was unsportsmanlike conduct and should be penalized. I am glad they did because I was able to talk to my kid and explain what happens when one behaves like that. Message was received, I hope, and no it wasn’t awkward. So good on the organizers to make an example. Should it be a disqualification or a game loss and if a game loss then which game loss? Well, that is up to the organizers to decide because it’s their tournament imo. We just get to choose if we participate or not.
Just curious so you explained to your kid that a hand jester can only be in interpreted in one way and if he shakes his fist at someone he's jacking off on them just seems outrageous and simple minded
Even if true, that still means he was disrespectful by saying his opponent is just lucky. It does make it easier to explain to kids why the gesture was disrespectful though.
One thing that I have not seen yet is giving Fernando Cifuentes credit for innovating with his Quad Iron Thorns deck with a heavy gust (4x Pokemon Catchers and Prime/Boss) which I had not seen before. And is not obvious. Prime Catcher seems to be the better ace spec. He just took it one step further.
You wanted to know how we had to explain it to kids. My son asked me what happened. I told him the truth,"You know how at school you would get in trouble for using language or hand gestures that your mom uses when she is angry?", "Ya." "That's what happened with Ian." "Oooo that makes sense."
They should have first and foremost preserved the integrity of the event by penalising the competitor in top 4. You cannot rewrite history like they did it just doesn't work. Now everyone suffers because of one person's mistake.
@@Serpens007 I am not American. You are completely missing the point. TPC rewrote history and therefore anything that happened in the top 4 is invalid. Whatever penalty was determined warranted had to be applied in top 4, end of story. However, that was not done so the tournament is invalid.
@@adtube666 no it isn't. A handful of people are relitigating this, everybody else recognizes that the players fought hard and Fernando won. No one is suffering.
@@Serpens007 strawman arguments aside, show me the rule in the official rule book that says a match can be retrospectively overturned due to an event that took place after the match that has nothing to do with gameplay. I am not saying players didn't work hard or whatever other irrelevant arguments you may have, the integrity of the tournament was compromised and that is that.
@@adtube666 lol no it wasnt compromised. You are literally trying to erase what the players did in Top 4 and Finals. The gesture happened as the match ended and before the signing, so yeah, it is a match loss during that round. And, even then, the judges made that decision, not the players. You can relitigate all you want, but that is a fact, and the players adhered to that ruling. Fernando won, as valid as any other world championship win.
For what it’s worth, the Shuffle Squad posted a video on the Iron Thorns deck and recognized Ian’s immature behavior in the comments as responses to at least a few people who asked. Grant, you’re an adult. You know that hand gesture combined with that face is not “dice rolling” or fist pumping or whatever else people are trying to say as a cover. It’s a jerking off motion, something that TPCI definitely does not want associated with their game. Ian made a stupid choice on camera at worlds and was punished. There is no need to try and spin the story a certain way when even his own team is recognizing that what he did was wrong.
If it had been the Iron Thorns deck with the non-America or EU player on the other side of top 4 and there was any discussion about giving it a bye to finals, people would be absolutely screeching.
I want to see rotation and season send both hit on the last day of August, ready for a new season and rotation on September 1st. Players might move in ages category/academic year, a new season is a fresh start... It all just makes sense
TPCI is certainly to blame and I agree nobody should belittle Fernando, or speak ill upon him as a person or as a player. BUT this win is NOT warranted and I’m sorry. He did win in the final match, sure I’ll concede to that because I watched it just like you did. HOWEVERRRRRRR he lost in top 8. Period. You do not get to lose in cut and go on to claim a victory. If pikachu wanted to punish Ian the way they did, fine, I’m not okay with it but they clearly wanted to make an example of him for some reason, but Fernando should have NEVER been given the chance to advance in the tournament. He lost. Plain, simple, and fair. Ian gets DQd or punished for whatever they took offense to then both players should have received a round loss and Jesse should then have been left with a BYE in top 4. Yes it is not the most entertaining outcome, but somebody who lost fair and square in an ELIMINATION BRACKET should NEVER be given the opportunity to move on in the competition unless the loss was the result of unfair play or cheating. Which we all saw on stream Ian won fair and square. TLDR given the punishment pikachu decided to put in Ian, Jesse should have had a bye in top4. As good of a player as Fernando may be, he lost and should never have had to opportunity to continue playing.
Oh he actually didn't lose :) You see, when someone pretends to jerk off in front of kids, you sometimes get removed from tournaments that kids participate in. Its kind of rare because its super fucked up to pretend to jerk off in front of kids, so the outcomes aren't typical or sort of.. uniform compared to normal non-jerk off in front of kids tournament rounds.
This is the only correct take. I don’t get the Jessie would have had an asterisk argument. He was undefeated in Swiss absolutely no one had Ian favored in that top 4 match and he we won his top 8 matchup so he was deserving of top 4.
It’s not about his win in the finals, it’s about his overwhelming loss in top 8. Because it was Ian Robb, I would put asterisks on Jesse’s top 4 win as well if Ian was DQed from top 4 instead of top 8.
Contrary to the lay person reaction, my wife who has no clue how this game is played nor is she familiar with those involved, said (when she saw it), awww, that looks SO bad. I also showed her IBs version, just NR from her. The moment I saw it live, when twitch chat mentioned it, knew right away the optics was bad (regardless the intent or meaning). Optics is everything.
I have nothing bad to say about Fernando, but this situation is ridiculous. He was eliminated in top eight, 2-0, and now he’s World Champion…. I’m sorry, but for years I’ve said it doesn’t really matter who played better, because there’s so much luck in the game. But now apparently, it doesn’t even matter who wins or loses the match. It’s just nonsense. Makes me sad. Makes me wanna find a new hobby, honestly. Worst world championships ever.😢
lol so many words defending someone who committed a simulated sex act in front of children. If you also can't commit to a hobby where doing simulated sex acts in front of children is frowned on, then good luck to you out there.
@@betasequence4885I didn’t even mention Ian or what he did. I’m not defending him, like at all. What are you talking about? Seriously. Seems like you are the one preoccupied with that. I’m talking about the outcome of a competitive card game not meaning what it should mean for the player who lost. Everything you said is something YOU are bringing into this discussion, so give that some thought, and maybe think just a tiny bit about what someone actually said before replying with some unhinged obsession you are carrying around that has no bearing on the original post at all. I’m talking about the competitive integrity of the game, and look what you replied 😬
@@betasequence4885what your struggling to understand is that there is a world where the player who lost 2-0 doesn’t advance and Ian is also removed from the tournament for making an inappropriate gesture. Calm down lil bud.
As another poke parent and a mother/womans viewpoint ( who loves the podcast by the way! ) i totally agree that Ian Robbs behaviour was unacceptable and glad that this was highlighted as such by pokemon. As a woman competing in a largely male dominated game, men hollering 'lets go' , dice rollling and gesturing at their friends can be incredibly intimidating. Instead of people questioning the consequence, why not ask themselves if perhaps they behave in such a manner and thats why they are defending it. Hopefully it will lead to some self reflection. As a pokeparent it was a healthy conversation with my son about sportsmanlike conduct. Our local tcg store has an amazing professor who promotes kind and friendly yet still competitive play. Perhaps other store judges and professors should take note of this at a local level and enforce, then these players would not think it was so appropriate at such a global event and saved them a whole lot of upset
Poor judgement on part of young Ian (i personally really like Ian Robb) and it was the correct decision on the part of Pokemon protecting their brand image. Remember it does NOT matter what you, me, or even Ian think that hand gesture was…it only matters what Pokemon think, and they acted accordingly
There is an asterisks, that's nothing against the kid and i think his 50k plus what 100-200k in prizes will make it so he doesn't care what people say. Iron thorns shouldn't have won based on how the games played out, that is nothing negative against Fernando
He made a jerking off motion on stream after winning in the quarterfinals. He later tried to say it was a dice rolling motion and that it was a reference to the dice rolling and coin flipping his opponent had to do to try and win. His team has since recognized Ian immaturity and they are not trying to hide that what he did was inappropriate.
Also, PLEASE AVOID SAN FRANCISCO AT ALL COSTS! It is currently a hot mess with homelessness all over the city, nothing is open for business, and thieves run like they own the place. Seriously, people leave their trunks open to show thieves that their car has nothing to steal so they can save their car from broken windows.
I feel like it is Ians fault not TPCI.... they were forced to make a decision that alters the tournament because of his actions. Even if he is sorry he needs to take accountability.
What is pokemon supposed to do? Just ignore poor behavior to hope to avoid people noticing it? People noticed it and were going to notice it. Maybe they viewed it as ambiguous enough to not give a DQ, but either way there is no way they can just overlook a player doing this on stream and cross their fingers that people didnt notice it. This is not Pokemon's fault like you guys said. They are following their rules. This is Ian's fault who didn't follow the rules he agreed to and made a bonehead decision. Can you imagine if this went unnoticed during the tournament and Ian went on to win just for this to come out after the fact and for us to find out that the tournament organizers turned a blind eye?
obviously it is clearly ian's fault, no one can argue that it's not. for the record, we recorded this before he admitted the action, but regardless we acknowledge that whether it was or not. but as far as our discussion on the pod, we're talking about how it was handled, which was poorly done, and that is at the tpci level
I stand on the principal that iron thorns is a toxic deck that plays itself.. The fact that we can identify that Fernando only won because of coin flips is even more insane .. Also he got 0-2 in TOP 8 but somehow manages to win it all is utter crap .. Match loss as a penalty was the ONLY REASON Quad thorns won, simple as that
Fernando won according to the rules of the tournament, fair and square. Some luck needed to go Fernando’s way and it did but luck is integral to a successful Pokemon tournament. Whether that means you got good matchups or you draw the cards you need or you flip heads, it’s the same. For his part, Fernando built a good deck, made a correct meta call and played his games near perfect. He is the world champ. Should’ve, could’ve, would’ves don’t really count, results do.
Crazy how a hand jester which can be interpreted in many ways has everyone's mind going right to the gutter that's just your sick way of thinking doesn't mean its the same for everyone especially kids this is outrageous to think about. Playing a game that has dice rolling and making a dice rolling jester takes you ppl right to him j-king off is crazy 😂
Would you please just stop being a smart ass? 😅 Ian admitted it was a bm. Normal people have right judgment and common sense, if you think that's a dice rolling then you have some problem yourself, rather evil or stupid.
Poke parent here. When I watched what Ian did on stream, I thought instantly a penalty is coming so yeah, what he did was unsportsmanlike conduct and should be penalized. I am glad they did because I was able to talk to my kid and explain what happens when one behaves like that. Message was received, I hope, and no it wasn’t awkward. So good on the organizers to make an example. Should it be a disqualification or a game loss and if a game loss then which game loss? Well, that is up to the organizers to decide because it’s their tournament imo. We just get to choose if we participate or not.
Just curious so you explained to your kid that a hand jester can only be in interpreted in one way and if he shakes his fist at someone he's jacking off on them just seems outrageous and simple minded
He claimed it was actually meant to be a dice roll to say the other guy just got lucky and I think there is a lot to that explanation tbh
Even if true, that still means he was disrespectful by saying his opponent is just lucky. It does make it easier to explain to kids why the gesture was disrespectful though.
@@TheRaggedFlygon nope he actually said it was an intentional bm, he told trickygym
A previous dude did the same "Roll the Dice" and wasn't penalized
One thing that I have not seen yet is giving Fernando Cifuentes credit for innovating with his Quad Iron Thorns deck with a heavy gust (4x Pokemon Catchers and Prime/Boss) which I had not seen before. And is not obvious. Prime Catcher seems to be the better ace spec. He just took it one step further.
You wanted to know how we had to explain it to kids. My son asked me what happened. I told him the truth,"You know how at school you would get in trouble for using language or hand gestures that your mom uses when she is angry?", "Ya." "That's what happened with Ian." "Oooo that makes sense."
That's a nice simple way to do it
They should have first and foremost preserved the integrity of the event by penalising the competitor in top 4. You cannot rewrite history like they did it just doesn't work. Now everyone suffers because of one person's mistake.
No one "suffers" lmao I'm sure had Jesse won top 4 no US person would be complaining
@@Serpens007 I am not American. You are completely missing the point. TPC rewrote history and therefore anything that happened in the top 4 is invalid. Whatever penalty was determined warranted had to be applied in top 4, end of story. However, that was not done so the tournament is invalid.
@@adtube666 no it isn't. A handful of people are relitigating this, everybody else recognizes that the players fought hard and Fernando won. No one is suffering.
@@Serpens007 strawman arguments aside, show me the rule in the official rule book that says a match can be retrospectively overturned due to an event that took place after the match that has nothing to do with gameplay. I am not saying players didn't work hard or whatever other irrelevant arguments you may have, the integrity of the tournament was compromised and that is that.
@@adtube666 lol no it wasnt compromised. You are literally trying to erase what the players did in Top 4 and Finals. The gesture happened as the match ended and before the signing, so yeah, it is a match loss during that round. And, even then, the judges made that decision, not the players. You can relitigate all you want, but that is a fact, and the players adhered to that ruling. Fernando won, as valid as any other world championship win.
He lost 2-0. Asterisk
ELITE thumbnail 😭
For what it’s worth, the Shuffle Squad posted a video on the Iron Thorns deck and recognized Ian’s immature behavior in the comments as responses to at least a few people who asked.
Grant, you’re an adult. You know that hand gesture combined with that face is not “dice rolling” or fist pumping or whatever else people are trying to say as a cover. It’s a jerking off motion, something that TPCI definitely does not want associated with their game.
Ian made a stupid choice on camera at worlds and was punished.
There is no need to try and spin the story a certain way when even his own team is recognizing that what he did was wrong.
appreciate the comment. i'd like to clarify that we recorded this before the shuffle squad video or mahome's stream
finally what the world needs. a grant rant
If it had been the Iron Thorns deck with the non-America or EU player on the other side of top 4 and there was any discussion about giving it a bye to finals, people would be absolutely screeching.
I want to see rotation and season send both hit on the last day of August, ready for a new season and rotation on September 1st. Players might move in ages category/academic year, a new season is a fresh start... It all just makes sense
we can dream
Grant, they're called Scalptators. Best fusion of the two words.
i'm stealing this
@boo_ck8031 I demand credit, At least... since I'll never be a guest
@@st00ben fair. and never say never
TPCI is certainly to blame and I agree nobody should belittle Fernando, or speak ill upon him as a person or as a player. BUT this win is NOT warranted and I’m sorry. He did win in the final match, sure I’ll concede to that because I watched it just like you did. HOWEVERRRRRRR he lost in top 8. Period. You do not get to lose in cut and go on to claim a victory. If pikachu wanted to punish Ian the way they did, fine, I’m not okay with it but they clearly wanted to make an example of him for some reason, but Fernando should have NEVER been given the chance to advance in the tournament. He lost. Plain, simple, and fair. Ian gets DQd or punished for whatever they took offense to then both players should have received a round loss and Jesse should then have been left with a BYE in top 4. Yes it is not the most entertaining outcome, but somebody who lost fair and square in an ELIMINATION BRACKET should NEVER be given the opportunity to move on in the competition unless the loss was the result of unfair play or cheating. Which we all saw on stream Ian won fair and square.
TLDR given the punishment pikachu decided to put in Ian, Jesse should have had a bye in top4. As good of a player as Fernando may be, he lost and should never have had to opportunity to continue playing.
Oh he actually didn't lose :) You see, when someone pretends to jerk off in front of kids, you sometimes get removed from tournaments that kids participate in. Its kind of rare because its super fucked up to pretend to jerk off in front of kids, so the outcomes aren't typical or sort of.. uniform compared to normal non-jerk off in front of kids tournament rounds.
You do when they give the match to you. Cry harder 😂😂😂😂😂
This is the only correct take. I don’t get the Jessie would have had an asterisk argument. He was undefeated in Swiss absolutely no one had Ian favored in that top 4 match and he we won his top 8 matchup so he was deserving of top 4.
Doesnt change the fact the the winner lost to the dude that did the Roll the Dice gesture
It’s not about his win in the finals, it’s about his overwhelming loss in top 8. Because it was Ian Robb, I would put asterisks on Jesse’s top 4 win as well if Ian was DQed from top 4 instead of top 8.
I’m not saying Ian wasn’t deserving of punishment, because he was, but purely the game, Fernando lost.
...there is no excuse for what he did on a live stream which was watched by thousands of people mostly kids...big dq for Rob and thumbs down...
I love this podcast
This podcast loves Sacksack17
It definitely was not warranted.
Contrary to the lay person reaction, my wife who has no clue how this game is played nor is she familiar with those involved, said (when she saw it), awww, that looks SO bad. I also showed her IBs version, just NR from her. The moment I saw it live, when twitch chat mentioned it, knew right away the optics was bad (regardless the intent or meaning). Optics is everything.
I have nothing bad to say about Fernando, but this situation is ridiculous. He was eliminated in top eight, 2-0, and now he’s World Champion…. I’m sorry, but for years I’ve said it doesn’t really matter who played better, because there’s so much luck in the game. But now apparently, it doesn’t even matter who wins or loses the match. It’s just nonsense. Makes me sad. Makes me wanna find a new hobby, honestly. Worst world championships ever.😢
Awe want a napkin?
@@asahthavoiceyou seem nice
lol so many words defending someone who committed a simulated sex act in front of children. If you also can't commit to a hobby where doing simulated sex acts in front of children is frowned on, then good luck to you out there.
@@betasequence4885I didn’t even mention Ian or what he did. I’m not defending him, like at all. What are you talking about? Seriously. Seems like you are the one preoccupied with that. I’m talking about the outcome of a competitive card game not meaning what it should mean for the player who lost. Everything you said is something YOU are bringing into this discussion, so give that some thought, and maybe think just a tiny bit about what someone actually said before replying with some unhinged obsession you are carrying around that has no bearing on the original post at all. I’m talking about the competitive integrity of the game, and look what you replied 😬
@@betasequence4885what your struggling to understand is that there is a world where the player who lost 2-0 doesn’t advance and Ian is also removed from the tournament for making an inappropriate gesture. Calm down lil bud.
As another poke parent and a mother/womans viewpoint ( who loves the podcast by the way! ) i totally agree that Ian Robbs behaviour was unacceptable and glad that this was highlighted as such by pokemon. As a woman competing in a largely male dominated game, men hollering 'lets go' , dice rollling and gesturing at their friends can be incredibly intimidating. Instead of people questioning the consequence, why not ask themselves if perhaps they behave in such a manner and thats why they are defending it. Hopefully it will lead to some self reflection. As a pokeparent it was a healthy conversation with my son about sportsmanlike conduct. Our local tcg store has an amazing professor who promotes kind and friendly yet still competitive play. Perhaps other store judges and professors should take note of this at a local level and enforce, then these players would not think it was so appropriate at such a global event and saved them a whole lot of upset
Poor judgement on part of young Ian (i personally really like Ian Robb) and it was the correct decision on the part of Pokemon protecting their brand image. Remember it does NOT matter what you, me, or even Ian think that hand gesture was…it only matters what Pokemon think, and they acted accordingly
There is an asterisks, that's nothing against the kid and i think his 50k plus what 100-200k in prizes will make it so he doesn't care what people say. Iron thorns shouldn't have won based on how the games played out, that is nothing negative against Fernando
The 230 on thorns opposed to 220 made all the difference in both top 4 and finals
Why? Zapdos exists.
what.. did he do again? .. seriously.. i'm like 40 and not a gamer.. i just like pokemon... wtf happened here? am i that clueless about hand gestures?
It's been called a "jerk off" motion
He made a jerking off motion on stream after winning in the quarterfinals.
He later tried to say it was a dice rolling motion and that it was a reference to the dice rolling and coin flipping his opponent had to do to try and win.
His team has since recognized Ian immaturity and they are not trying to hide that what he did was inappropriate.
To some people he did Roll the dice gestures, to others he jerked off...somehow from his forehead.
Me as a pokemon player: yay! Worlds in california
Me as a californian: oh no...
Also, PLEASE AVOID SAN FRANCISCO AT ALL COSTS! It is currently a hot mess with homelessness all over the city, nothing is open for business, and thieves run like they own the place. Seriously, people leave their trunks open to show thieves that their car has nothing to steal so they can save their car from broken windows.
you can understand my frustration
I feel like it is Ians fault not TPCI.... they were forced to make a decision that alters the tournament because of his actions. Even if he is sorry he needs to take accountability.
He was rolling dice if you ask me 🤷🏻♂️
Rolling dice in the shower
What is pokemon supposed to do? Just ignore poor behavior to hope to avoid people noticing it? People noticed it and were going to notice it. Maybe they viewed it as ambiguous enough to not give a DQ, but either way there is no way they can just overlook a player doing this on stream and cross their fingers that people didnt notice it. This is not Pokemon's fault like you guys said. They are following their rules. This is Ian's fault who didn't follow the rules he agreed to and made a bonehead decision.
Can you imagine if this went unnoticed during the tournament and Ian went on to win just for this to come out after the fact and for us to find out that the tournament organizers turned a blind eye?
hot off the press
While all the good players are in Hawaii, gotta act fast
Mellow using his teacher or speaking from a point of authority voice a lot this episode. Hope everything's alright, seem pretty upset
Summer break is almost over and I have to practice 😝
Man is Grant always this negative on things? Almost every topic he responds with “don’t care” or “no” or “that place sucks.”
Yeah he is kinda that way for most things
maybe. but am i wrong on the things in this episode?
Why is PCTi fault? Is Ian fault, he was inmature, just dealt with it and stop making excuses.
obviously it is clearly ian's fault, no one can argue that it's not. for the record, we recorded this before he admitted the action, but regardless we acknowledge that whether it was or not. but as far as our discussion on the pod, we're talking about how it was handled, which was poorly done, and that is at the tpci level
No one asterix's Jason K's 2013 world's win even though he got away with a double energy attachment in top 8.
Do the Ian robb
I stand on the principal that iron thorns is a toxic deck that plays itself.. The fact that we can identify that Fernando only won because of coin flips is even more insane .. Also he got 0-2 in TOP 8 but somehow manages to win it all is utter crap .. Match loss as a penalty was the ONLY REASON Quad thorns won, simple as that
Fernando won according to the rules of the tournament, fair and square. Some luck needed to go Fernando’s way and it did but luck is integral to a successful Pokemon tournament. Whether that means you got good matchups or you draw the cards you need or you flip heads, it’s the same. For his part, Fernando built a good deck, made a correct meta call and played his games near perfect. He is the world champ. Should’ve, could’ve, would’ves don’t really count, results do.
Yall cry about every deck.
Luck is always a big factor in any card game
all comments are like 😭😭😭😭
Crazy how a hand jester which can be interpreted in many ways has everyone's mind going right to the gutter that's just your sick way of thinking doesn't mean its the same for everyone especially kids this is outrageous to think about. Playing a game that has dice rolling and making a dice rolling jester takes you ppl right to him j-king off is crazy 😂
That elf lookin chump aint no kid 😂
he also made that really common "dice roll" face we all make where we look like we are having an orgasm while we roll dice
Would you please just stop being a smart ass? 😅 Ian admitted it was a bm. Normal people have right judgment and common sense, if you think that's a dice rolling then you have some problem yourself, rather evil or stupid.
He already came out and said it wasn't a dice roll and that it was what ppl are thinking so maybe stfu until you know what you're talking about
I love this podcast
Appreciate it 💜