I play with a few people who used these paddles up until a couple weeks ago. They are struggling to find replacements, and are frustrated they no longer have that power. Thus, their games are being forced to normalize as they can no longer bang their way thru games. Like the rest of us, they will have to learn the slower play and finesse.
I'm very much a net player and work to force as many plays as I can to the net. It minimizes power many times and generates more chance of getting errors from users of power paddles. I'll do the dreaded pull players to the net short dink to force overly aggressive "only bangers" to come in. While I know technically it's the wrong shot, a banger with all power and no control is at home if I keep hitting it back to them so they can bang the next one at me. While it's rarely done, I will do it when that gives me an advantage.
What a load of bollocks. I use a Mod TA 14mm normally and switched to a Diadem EDGE 18K SP literally days before a tournament last weekend. We won silver in our division. If you can play well with a power paddle, you can play well with any paddle.
There are several power paddles today that give you access to the same power as these delisted ones...just look at the new ronbus ripple it's outrageous. They should have no problems finding another power paddle the market is inundated with them.
Great video. I play a very controlled nuanced game and often use a joola Generation 3,which I lòve, no one ever complains because of my soft game, I love to drop, Dink with occasional use of power.
As a recreational player who's level maybe gets up to 3.5-4.0 on my best days, I couldn't care less. If somebody spent $300 on a paddle, let them play with it, I'm out here for fun and exercise. I can tell you with 100% certainty however, that there are many who don't even play at my level who would much rather try to gain an advantage by harassing their opponents over the paddle than trying to improve their own play.
I think this is not an issue until someone who is only a banger is using one and pretty much does nothing us but stand at the baseline firing as hard as they can shot after shot. This makes it much more dangerous to opponents as if you get hit, it's with a lot more power. It also can break down balls faster meaning more expense but that can happen with just more aggressive players in general anyway. Just not as quickly. I don't normally look at the opponent's equipment in rec games either and I started playing back in 2016.
Rory. I am being told that the 2025 rules require the server to hold the ball with the hand over the ball so as to simply to release the ball. I understand rule 4.A.5. "The serve shall be made with only one hand or the paddle releasing the ball. While some natural rotation of the ball is expected during any release of the ball, the server shall not impart manipulation or spin on the ball with any part of the body or the paddle as a result of the release. Exception: The server may allow the ball to roll off the face of the paddle by gravity." Also rule 4.A.6. "In officiated matches, the server’s release of the ball must be visible to the referee and receiver. In matches without a referee, the server’s release of the ball must be visible to the receiver. A replay as determined in accordance with Rule 4.A.9 shall occur when the release is not visible." I see nothing about restrictions on how you hold the ball when releasing it. I'm one that likes to follow the rules but I want to see/read the rules so I know what to follow. The fellow that was telling me this was sure and he says I have a rulebook if you want to read it. I didn't want to argue if I wasn't sure of myself, especially in casual rec. play. Please let me know your understanding of this. Thank you. Rick Eldridge
The only rule change I know, concerning serving in 2025, is that when doing a drop serve, a player may serve by allowing the ball to roll off of the paddle instead of dropping it. I think that rule is now in effect for players who only have one arm or hand. Otherwise, I'm not sure why a player would do that. Sorry I can't be a more assistance. Thanks for watching.
Rick, I wrote many of the current serve rules when I was Chair of the USAP Rules Committee. You are correct; there are no restrictions on where the hand must be when releasing the ball. You have quoted the correct rule references. My advice? Take that player up on his offer and have him show you the rule that he says exists. Mark Peifer
The more annoying thing is having a Gearbox that has been legal for over a year now and then having it de-listed... they should have grand-fathered in the ones that have been approved for so long. Honestly, lower level players often play worse with power paddles (I loan mine out to lots of people to try) unless the match is just a bunch of beginner banging. I use mine just for fun games with friends who are fully aware and ok with the regulatory status.
The power from the Black Ace is laughable compared to the MOD-TA 15 or gearbox pro power elongated. I don't personally play w illegal paddles but I'm not afraid of playing against others who use the MOD or gearbox pro power as long as they're not speeding up w/o control of where they hit or head hunting.
I think it depends on the level of the rec players. More competitive banger players would notice it and have issues but as for me I would not be able to tell it from others paddles. If they need that expensive banned paddle to beat me ...well I'm flattered! I use a 2020 Gear Box control paddle with motorcycle wheel weights at 12, 9 and 3 oclock adjered with a thin slice of duck tape.... Control plus power and I save some dough!! This may work with other "olden day" paddles too!! Good channel Rory!!
If it is an illegal paddle , then ofcourse it should never be allowed to be used at all . Your not allowed to volley the ball while standing in the Kitchen either , for example. Do we ignore that rule too when ever you feel like it ?
We have gone through this several times in table tennis - the really interesting question is, do you change equipment now, or keep using the illegal equipment right up to the last minute?
@pickleballpick-apart9787 table tennis went though a period trying to ban the 'pips-out' rubber covering. Friction vs friction-less pips. The difference between table tennis and pickleball is the table tennis rubber covering wears and oxidizes. Really only affecting mid to high level competition focused players. While the Heart of the paddle (the 'blade') remains useful for many years (15+ is not unheard of). Similar mid to high level players will replace their paddle annually if not more often.
I've never used a pure power paddle, I'm quite strong and I've known my game needs better control. Starting to get into 14mm territory as I become more accurate, but the only place I'd use an extreme power paddle would be in drilling, as a way of honing my control game even with a poppy paddle. I may wait till the Black Ace drops in price post-ban and then get one as a soft shots drilling aid. If someone plays with a banned paddle? I guess I'd play them, as long as nothing more than the score is at stake (i.e. chances to play or prize winnings). I like a challenge. Considered getting other Joola models (like the Perseus) on discount through auction, but not seriously. There are so many other competent manufacturers. My newest ventures into paddleland are a Holbrook Power Pro 16mm and a twin set of Volair Mach 1 Forzas, 14mm and 16mm.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 me too, it seems to be catching on and that's part of what got me looking at it. I like your general breakdown of games, but I also appreciated this changeup of the format for a moment to discuss this issue!
I play with ladies who are using the Joola Gen 3 Tyson Mcguffin paddle. They generate power and spin with those paddles, unlike other ladies. I keep my mouth zipped and just play the best that I can with my control paddle.
Also one more thing. I totally understand not paying 300 bucks for a paddle. Just go buy the knock off. its about as good. I have a couple and they are 90% of the performance of the real deal. Good for rec play.
I got burned on the Gen-3 paddle. Joola never refunded my money. Their customer service sucks! No more Joola for me. I'm now playing with a PaddleTEK ESQ-C.
I don't look to see what people are playing and wouldn't bother to say anything in rec play if I did, but would have the same opinion of the player using an illegal paddle as I would someone who consistently calls balls out that are actually in.
I use the mod and I don't consider myself a wreckless "banger". I still do drop shots etc. I like the way my serve is with the mod so this delisting is frustrating. I still plan on using mine for rec
So I was scrolling reddit and youtube. And I came across this comment. "Quong Dong never used a banned paddle" Hitting with power is skill, paddle helps a little bit.
#1. No, due to my league honoring the USAPA list. Doesn’t make sense to play rec with one paddle then change to a listed one in league or tourney. #2. Don’t care if rec player has delisted paddle. #3. Not applicable
Oh boy! Here we go. 1. To be fair lets first understand that USAPA moved the goal post back a bit and therefore there is nothing wrong that Joola or any of the other companies did. USAPA has the right to do so. And they moved the goal post back but just a tiny amount. Barely even noticeable. Rumor has it that Joola 3s is in the pipeline to get usapa approved but they might just try to push for the gen 4 paddle which will be USAPA approved. Ive been using this paddle and it honestly provides about the same amount of pop and power as the mod ta-15. To USAPA's credit they did not change the standard by that much, Total impact we are only looking at a few mph. 2. Bangers are going to bang, pro game is still very power heavy. That doesn't mean that finesse isn't important, It just shifts when you use each shot. If you want to play a winning style game and be competitive at tournaments then you better be darn good at the drive AND still possess all soft skills as well. To be clear the soft game will never go away and is still a very integral part of the game. You only play finesse when you cannot launch a good attack. Dinks resets, etc allow you to go from defensive to neutral position. But the soft game itself and waiting for errors from your opponent isn't going to win you any medals. At the intermediate level this is fine but once you reach 4.0 and above defense no longer wins games. Defense keeps you in the point so you can setup your offensive shot. 3. The players who complain about this all have one thing in common. They can't handle the power with their block and counter and therefore get frustrated and blame the paddles instead of their lack of defensive skills. Instead of adapting and evolving and becoming better players they blame other people and paddle technology. Don't be one of those people. Learn to handle the speed and power. Learn to drive confidently, develop offensive weapons like the speedup, and attacking in transition. For some senior players this can be an issue but honestly I've seen lots of older players that have no trouble reacting and driving the ball with the younger players. 4. The game is never going back to pre-pandemic days, too much skill , too much talent, too much money involved, so just embrace the power game and enjoy it. Your DUPR rating will thank you. btw I just moved up to 4.7 so yes I know what i'm talking about.
You obviously do know what you're talking about. This year, my goal is to work more on my power game. I play with a Selkirk Luxx Air. I may have to go to a paddle with just a little more power.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Thanks for the reply, I think you should play whatever paddle you feel comfortable with Rory, But I 100% believe what you said at the end which is don't choose a paddle you can't control.
The paddle manufacturer more than likely did NOT provide a known illegal paddle. So, i believe that a 50% discount for the new version is more than fair. However, would you chance the third strike ? kb
Playing with an illegal paddle is cheating, plain and simple. It gives an unfair advantage plus creates a safety hazard to other players. How is playing with a too-powerful, illegal paddle any different than saying “I’m going to change the rules to allow me to take shots out of the air while my foot touches the kitchen line. As long as both of my feet are not entirely inside of the NVZ line, I am declaring my volleys to be legal.”? Lying and cheating is wrong. The fact that it has become the norm in politics these days should not mean that people of integrity give up on trying to see that we have a fair and even playing field in our society. The real reason why those who won’t confront cheaters and therefore allow the cheating isn’t because they want to promote a harmonious, social atmosphere, it is because they are cowards. If everyone had the will to do the right thing and call out blatant cheaters, we would have far less cheating because the cheaters would either play by the rules or not play at all. When the general public does not call out dishonest conduct and condones it, they are encouraging more dishonesty to occur. It’s not a hard concept to understand, it’s simply a challenge to get people to stand up to do the right thing because it requires more courage than sitting back and pretending that doing nothing is what a “nice person“ should do. 18th century Anglo - Irish politician and political philosopher Edmund Burke made perhaps the wisest, most perceptive statement in the history of mankind. He stated that all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to stand back and do nothing. Think about that the next time you are on a pickleball court, enter a voting booth, or participate more directly in any political process.
A pickleball paddle that cannot legally be played in tournaments is, in my mind, a defective paddle and should be covered 100% by the manufacturers warranty. I think that anyone who bought one of these grossly overpriced overpriced paddles, particularly brands that are known to have reliability and durability problems, are a bit of a fool. But people who discover that the manufacturer refuses to stand by its product and will only sell you a replacement product for a price that is still profitable to the manufacturer and above its cost, but still give more money to that manufacturer, are damn fools. One of the things that I like about pickleball is that there is such a broad variety of equipment manufacturers offering the consumer better choices and more competitive pricing. Often small companies are making paddles as good or better than any other paddle on the market, at a cost that is half of what the big companies are charging. This is a nice contrast to tennis, with only about 10 big manufacturers dominating the equipment sales.
Good point. I think the major companies paddles are more expensive because they spend so much money on advertising. The smaller companies do not. Thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 yes, the bigger companies definitely are spending more on advertising plus sponsoring pros and I am sure, engaging in price gouging as well. Any company that tries to promote its products as being premium will also add a surcharge to those vain enough to want to buy only the “hottest“ or most elite products
It's easy for me to say no to using these banned paddles since I didn't purchase one. I feel for those that have and feel the companies owe more as far as replacement/recovery of those paddles than will likely happen. I have a gen 1 Hyperion and with the Joola issues as of late, I do not plan to purchase another Joola paddle to make sure to stay away from these ongoing issues. I do believe we're going to see some other fall rather quickly as well so it makes it hard for me to pick what my next paddle may be. Overall, my take on these paddles is just that they should be taken out of the game. I'm not a power player so maybe it is unfair for me to make that statement in ways but these paddles hit with such power it just ups the risk to equipment and other players that I don't think is fair. In rec play, I don't normally even check other players equipment so if others use them, it is what it is. As I noted, I don't have any of them or any power paddle, so I will not be using them. The players take a risk by buying any paddle but the companies putting them out should meet the requirements of the game before selling them. I believe players should have better opportunities for trade-in allowance or return options as I feel it is less the players fault they are now in that position.
i don't mind playing against them, now that they are banned in a few months, but I certainly will make a point to say something if I get blasted by a ball.....as for paying half price for a new paddle, I would be pissed...got me 300 the first time, sent it back for an upgraded, legal paddle and now that paddle is going to be banned...half price won't cut it for me if I had paid all that money....Joola will say it was "legal" when they made it but why are they the only big seller who got banned...Gear box is a pretty big company but I bet not half the size of Joola...black ace ban was a joke...paddle is 3-4 yrs old
I very often see players buying the latest paddles every couple months. Just so they can keep up with other players (@ 3.5 level and up). These banned paddles will have the gritty surface wear down by these players and their paddle will be replaced. A bigger question is what paddles are just under the USAPA threshold yet approved? Will that threshold be lowered again (resulting in more paddles being banned)? USAPA shouldn't have approved these paddles in the first place. As far as rec players, I see some playing with very old fiberglass and even wooden paddles. Is USAPA going to ban wooden paddles (as the originator of this game created)? This will sort itself out by 2026...
No, they won't be. If they pass the PBCoR limit of .43 then they're good through at least May of 2026 and if they have the "PBCoR" stamp on the paddle, they're good for beyond that. Went through this with the production Ronbus Ripple which just got fully approved and releases to the wider public on 01/30.
Rules of the game should not be selectively enforced nor selectively observed. If a paddle is removed from the list of approved paddles, that becomes problematic and manufacturers should provide full refunds to their customers. Purchasing a paddle that has not been approved seems foolhardy.
Personally I would never spend that amount on a paddle. Keep it simple-stupid! A rec player owning a pricey high-tech paddle indicates to me that the player is trying to somehow make up for lack of skill. Leave the fancy paddles for the pros.
A sign on one door. $300 paddle guaranteed to improve your game. There are 100 people in line waiting to buy it. Sign on the other door. Pickleball lessons taught by a certified professional. Number of people in line to get lessons, zero. That about sums it up. Thanks for watching
If people have disposable income and want to spend it. who is to judge! Having a nicer paddle improves the pickleball experience. 300 dollars is nothing in other sports. Try buying a 15k road bike. Or a 250k sailboat. I spend 20 hours a week playing pickleball, for me 300 dollars is perfectly acceptable.
USAPA...YOU SHOULD BOT be stamping approved on paddles until they are TESTED!!! I bought a Black Ace this fall as I had worn out 4 Peo Linnex paddles that I loved. My game has progressed, so I honored myself with a new Kenetic paddle...I need it for severe tennis elbow and bicep tendon sensitivity. My surprise when a month later the BANNED 😡🤬 list came out!!! I feel it is yet another way for USAPA to dupe money from players. NOT COOL. I am taking my paddle back to the trusted store to request a replacement paddle!!!!! BOO USAPA!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, this is all on USAP. Don't know why naysayers blame the manufacturers and players that use any kind of approved paddles. Why don't these same folks go after users of Chinese knockoff paddles that aren't sanctioned by anybody?
As a rec player I would not use a banned paddle. I really don’t look to see what the other players are using. Maybe I should??? I always wear safety glasses and I took a fluke shot that hit me squarely on my right eye area a month ago. The glasses saved me from a serious injury. When the ball hit the glasses lens it ricocheted to my cheekbone and left a red scuff mark. Without those glasses my eye would have taken the full brunt. As an afterthought, I guess I should start paying more attention to what paddle I’m playing against.
See a lot of complaining and grumbling from seemingly unathletic and low-level players. Fact of the matter is that any good player can play well with any paddle and can dink, drop and spin their way to wins with or without a power paddle. I switched from my Mod TA 14mm to a Diadem EDGE 18K SP days before the Selkirk sponsored tournament in Houston this past weekend and my partner and I won silver in our division. And there are a bunch of players that hit harder than me in my neck of the woods that play with control paddles. By the way, I see a bunch of players these days playing with Chinese knockoffs and unapproved brands, where's the uproar over these? None of them went through *any* approval process.
Congratulations on getting silver! Yes, I see players playing with knockoffs that are not legal. Something is going to have to be done. There are just too many unreputable, no-name companies making paddles. And, some players don't know better than to buy one.
I would not play rec or tournament ball with an illegal paddle. Especially, if it made the ball move faster. I would hate to hurt someone and I would not like winning knowing that I cheated.
While I understand your response, I do think it may be a bit unfair. One issue I have is that the power paddle also creates additional risk to players. As a player who has been hit by both direct and off the net shots, I can state that there is a huge difference in both moving out of the way of or being hit by shots from these higher power paddles. In fact, I'd argue that rec players are generally not as good so may be at more risk than higher power paddles. Just my take.
I play with a few people who used these paddles up until a couple weeks ago. They are struggling to find replacements, and are frustrated they no longer have that power. Thus, their games are being forced to normalize as they can no longer bang their way thru games. Like the rest of us, they will have to learn the slower play and finesse.
Very true. Hopefully they will learn some pickleball skills. Thanks for watching.
I'm very much a net player and work to force as many plays as I can to the net. It minimizes power many times and generates more chance of getting errors from users of power paddles. I'll do the dreaded pull players to the net short dink to force overly aggressive "only bangers" to come in. While I know technically it's the wrong shot, a banger with all power and no control is at home if I keep hitting it back to them so they can bang the next one at me. While it's rarely done, I will do it when that gives me an advantage.
What a load of bollocks. I use a Mod TA 14mm normally and switched to a Diadem EDGE 18K SP literally days before a tournament last weekend. We won silver in our division. If you can play well with a power paddle, you can play well with any paddle.
There are several power paddles today that give you access to the same power as these delisted ones...just look at the new ronbus ripple it's outrageous. They should have no problems finding another power paddle the market is inundated with them.
@@striker476 I believe the Ripple is going to end up being delisted as well. I think those first few were just part of the eventual list.
Great video. I play a very controlled nuanced game and often use a joola Generation 3,which I lòve, no one ever complains because of my soft game, I love to drop, Dink with occasional use of power.
Glad you can control it. Thanks for watching.
As a recreational player who's level maybe gets up to 3.5-4.0 on my best days, I couldn't care less. If somebody spent $300 on a paddle, let them play with it, I'm out here for fun and exercise. I can tell you with 100% certainty however, that there are many who don't even play at my level who would much rather try to gain an advantage by harassing their opponents over the paddle than trying to improve their own play.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment.
Preach. I drill and play with high level players frequently to improve my game and be competitive. Most of these complainers just want to complain.
As a 3 months in player, I have no idea what paddles are on opposite side of me starting a rec Play game. It's play - win/loose - next! Los Angeles.
I think this is not an issue until someone who is only a banger is using one and pretty much does nothing us but stand at the baseline firing as hard as they can shot after shot. This makes it much more dangerous to opponents as if you get hit, it's with a lot more power. It also can break down balls faster meaning more expense but that can happen with just more aggressive players in general anyway. Just not as quickly. I don't normally look at the opponent's equipment in rec games either and I started playing back in 2016.
Rory.
I am being told that the 2025 rules require the server to hold the ball with the hand over the ball so as to simply to release the ball.
I understand rule 4.A.5. "The serve shall be made with only one hand or the paddle releasing the ball. While some natural rotation of the ball is expected during any release of the ball, the server shall not impart manipulation or spin on the ball with any part of the body or the paddle as a result of the release. Exception: The server may allow the ball to roll off the face of the paddle by gravity."
Also rule 4.A.6. "In officiated matches, the server’s release of the ball must be visible to the referee and receiver. In matches without a referee, the server’s release of the ball must be visible to the receiver. A replay as determined in accordance with Rule 4.A.9 shall occur when the release is not visible."
I see nothing about restrictions on how you hold the ball when releasing it. I'm one that likes to follow the rules but I want to see/read the rules so I know what to follow. The fellow that was telling me this was sure and he says I have a rulebook if you want to read it. I didn't want to argue if I wasn't sure of myself, especially in casual rec. play.
Please let me know your understanding of this.
Thank you.
Rick Eldridge
The only rule change I know, concerning serving in 2025, is that when doing a drop serve, a player may serve by allowing the ball to roll off of the paddle instead of dropping it. I think that rule is now in effect for players who only have one arm or hand. Otherwise, I'm not sure why a player would do that. Sorry I can't be a more assistance. Thanks for watching.
Rick, I wrote many of the current serve rules when I was Chair of the USAP Rules Committee. You are correct; there are no restrictions on where the hand must be when releasing the ball. You have quoted the correct rule references. My advice? Take that player up on his offer and have him show you the rule that he says exists.
Mark Peifer
Hell NOOO!!!!
Thanks for watching.
The more annoying thing is having a Gearbox that has been legal for over a year now and then having it de-listed... they should have grand-fathered in the ones that have been approved for so long. Honestly, lower level players often play worse with power paddles (I loan mine out to lots of people to try) unless the match is just a bunch of beginner banging. I use mine just for fun games with friends who are fully aware and ok with the regulatory status.
I do think power paddles can hinder a beginner's game. They just cannot control them. Thanks for watching.
The power from the Black Ace is laughable compared to the MOD-TA 15 or gearbox pro power elongated. I don't personally play w illegal paddles but I'm not afraid of playing against others who use the MOD or gearbox pro power as long as they're not speeding up w/o control of where they hit or head hunting.
Was speeding a ball up at the nvz with one of those paddles, it's really hard sometimes to even see the ball. Thanks for watching.
I think it depends on the level of the rec players. More competitive banger players would notice it and have issues but as for me I would not be able to tell it from others paddles. If they need that expensive banned paddle to beat me ...well I'm flattered! I use a 2020 Gear Box control paddle with motorcycle wheel weights at 12, 9 and 3 oclock adjered with a thin slice of duck tape.... Control plus power and I save some dough!! This may work with other "olden day" paddles too!! Good channel Rory!!
Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate you watching.
If it is an illegal paddle , then ofcourse it should never be allowed to be used at all . Your not allowed to volley the ball while standing in the Kitchen either , for example. Do we ignore that rule too when ever you feel like it ?
I think that is an excellent point. Thanks for watching.
We have gone through this several times in table tennis - the really interesting question is, do you change equipment now, or keep using the illegal equipment right up to the last minute?
Good question. I know Joola is one of the number one names in table tennis. Did they have an issue with table tennis paddles as well?
@pickleballpick-apart9787 table tennis went though a period trying to ban the 'pips-out' rubber covering. Friction vs friction-less pips. The difference between table tennis and pickleball is the table tennis rubber covering wears and oxidizes. Really only affecting mid to high level competition focused players. While the Heart of the paddle (the 'blade') remains useful for many years (15+ is not unheard of).
Similar mid to high level players will replace their paddle annually if not more often.
I got a racquetball paddle. If they are going to use a non-USPA paddle I pull it out.
That's funny!
I've never used a pure power paddle, I'm quite strong and I've known my game needs better control. Starting to get into 14mm territory as I become more accurate, but the only place I'd use an extreme power paddle would be in drilling, as a way of honing my control game even with a poppy paddle. I may wait till the Black Ace drops in price post-ban and then get one as a soft shots drilling aid.
If someone plays with a banned paddle? I guess I'd play them, as long as nothing more than the score is at stake (i.e. chances to play or prize winnings). I like a challenge.
Considered getting other Joola models (like the Perseus) on discount through auction, but not seriously. There are so many other competent manufacturers. My newest ventures into paddleland are a Holbrook Power Pro 16mm and a twin set of Volair Mach 1 Forzas, 14mm and 16mm.
I'm starting to see the Holbrook more and more on the court. Thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 me too, it seems to be catching on and that's part of what got me looking at it. I like your general breakdown of games, but I also appreciated this changeup of the format for a moment to discuss this issue!
I play with ladies who are using the Joola Gen 3 Tyson Mcguffin paddle. They generate power and spin with those paddles, unlike other ladies. I keep my mouth zipped and just play the best that I can with my control paddle.
Good idea! Thanks for watching.
Also one more thing. I totally understand not paying 300 bucks for a paddle. Just go buy the knock off. its about as good. I have a couple and they are 90% of the performance of the real deal. Good for rec play.
Some knockoffs are really good. Some are not. I'm glad you got a good one.
I got burned on the Gen-3 paddle. Joola never refunded my money. Their customer service sucks! No more Joola for me. I'm now playing with a PaddleTEK ESQ-C.
That's probably a good idea. Thanks for watching
I don't look to see what people are playing and wouldn't bother to say anything in rec play if I did, but would have the same opinion of the player using an illegal paddle as I would someone who consistently calls balls out that are actually in.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.
Wont stop the Mod TA 15 bangers from mindlessly slamming half their shots long.
That's a great point. I see so many balls fly out the court using that paddle. Thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 only from people who do not know how to use them
I use the mod and I don't consider myself a wreckless "banger". I still do drop shots etc. I like the way my serve is with the mod so this delisting is frustrating. I still plan on using mine for rec
Thanks for watching and thanks for responding.
So I was scrolling reddit and youtube. And I came across this comment. "Quong Dong never used a banned paddle" Hitting with power is skill, paddle helps a little bit.
That dude is incredible. I love watching him play. Thanks for watching
#1. No, due to my league honoring the USAPA list. Doesn’t make sense to play rec with one paddle then change to a listed one in league or tourney. #2. Don’t care if rec player has delisted paddle. #3. Not applicable
Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion.
Oh boy! Here we go. 1. To be fair lets first understand that USAPA moved the goal post back a bit and therefore there is nothing wrong that Joola or any of the other companies did. USAPA has the right to do so. And they moved the goal post back but just a tiny amount. Barely even noticeable. Rumor has it that Joola 3s is in the pipeline to get usapa approved but they might just try to push for the gen 4 paddle which will be USAPA approved. Ive been using this paddle and it honestly provides about the same amount of pop and power as the mod ta-15. To USAPA's credit they did not change the standard by that much, Total impact we are only looking at a few mph. 2. Bangers are going to bang, pro game is still very power heavy. That doesn't mean that finesse isn't important, It just shifts when you use each shot. If you want to play a winning style game and be competitive at tournaments then you better be darn good at the drive AND still possess all soft skills as well. To be clear the soft game will never go away and is still a very integral part of the game. You only play finesse when you cannot launch a good attack. Dinks resets, etc allow you to go from defensive to neutral position. But the soft game itself and waiting for errors from your opponent isn't going to win you any medals. At the intermediate level this is fine but once you reach 4.0 and above defense no longer wins games. Defense keeps you in the point so you can setup your offensive shot. 3. The players who complain about this all have one thing in common. They can't handle the power with their block and counter and therefore get frustrated and blame the paddles instead of their lack of defensive skills. Instead of adapting and evolving and becoming better players they blame other people and paddle technology. Don't be one of those people. Learn to handle the speed and power. Learn to drive confidently, develop offensive weapons like the speedup, and attacking in transition. For some senior players this can be an issue but honestly I've seen lots of older players that have no trouble reacting and driving the ball with the younger players. 4. The game is never going back to pre-pandemic days, too much skill , too much talent, too much money involved, so just embrace the power game and enjoy it. Your DUPR rating will thank you. btw I just moved up to 4.7 so yes I know what i'm talking about.
You obviously do know what you're talking about. This year, my goal is to work more on my power game. I play with a Selkirk Luxx Air. I may have to go to a paddle with just a little more power.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Thanks for the reply, I think you should play whatever paddle you feel comfortable with Rory, But I 100% believe what you said at the end which is don't choose a paddle you can't control.
The paddle manufacturer more than likely did NOT provide a known illegal paddle. So, i believe that a 50% discount for the new version is more than fair. However, would you chance the third strike ? kb
That's what I'm wondering? Thanks for watching.
Considering the poor reliability of Joola paddles most of the mod ta 15's will be dead by then so actually I think its generous lol!
Playing with an illegal paddle is cheating, plain and simple. It gives an unfair advantage plus creates a safety hazard to other players.
How is playing with a too-powerful, illegal paddle any different than saying “I’m going to change the rules to allow me to take shots out of the air while my foot touches the kitchen line. As long as both of my feet are not entirely inside of the NVZ line, I am declaring my volleys to be legal.”?
Lying and cheating is wrong. The fact that it has become the norm in politics these days should not mean that people of integrity give up on trying to see that we have a fair and even playing field in our society. The real reason why those who won’t confront cheaters and therefore allow the cheating isn’t because they want to promote a harmonious, social atmosphere, it is because they are cowards. If everyone had the will to do the right thing and call out blatant cheaters, we would have far less cheating because the cheaters would either play by the rules or not play at all. When the general public does not call out dishonest conduct and condones it, they are encouraging more dishonesty to occur. It’s not a hard concept to understand, it’s simply a challenge to get people to stand up to do the right thing because it requires more courage than sitting back and pretending that doing nothing is what a “nice person“ should do.
18th century Anglo - Irish politician and political philosopher Edmund Burke made perhaps the wisest, most perceptive statement in the history of mankind. He stated that all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to stand back and do nothing. Think about that the next time you are on a pickleball court, enter a voting booth, or participate more directly in any political process.
Thanks for taking the time to write and express your opinion.
A pickleball paddle that cannot legally be played in tournaments is, in my mind, a defective paddle and should be covered 100% by the manufacturers warranty. I think that anyone who bought one of these grossly overpriced overpriced paddles, particularly brands that are known to have reliability and durability problems, are a bit of a fool. But people who discover that the manufacturer refuses to stand by its product and will only sell you a replacement product for a price that is still profitable to the manufacturer and above its cost, but still give more money to that manufacturer, are damn fools.
One of the things that I like about pickleball is that there is such a broad variety of equipment manufacturers offering the consumer better choices and more competitive pricing. Often small companies are making paddles as good or better than any other paddle on the market, at a cost that is half of what the big companies are charging. This is a nice contrast to tennis, with only about 10 big manufacturers dominating the equipment sales.
Good point. I think the major companies paddles are more expensive because they spend so much money on advertising. The smaller companies do not. Thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 yes, the bigger companies definitely are spending more on advertising plus sponsoring pros and I am sure, engaging in price gouging as well. Any company that tries to promote its products as being premium will also add a surcharge to those vain enough to want to buy only the “hottest“ or most elite products
Wouldn't use a banned paddle and won't play someone who uses them.
Thanks for your opinion and thanks for watching.
It's easy for me to say no to using these banned paddles since I didn't purchase one. I feel for those that have and feel the companies owe more as far as replacement/recovery of those paddles than will likely happen. I have a gen 1 Hyperion and with the Joola issues as of late, I do not plan to purchase another Joola paddle to make sure to stay away from these ongoing issues. I do believe we're going to see some other fall rather quickly as well so it makes it hard for me to pick what my next paddle may be. Overall, my take on these paddles is just that they should be taken out of the game. I'm not a power player so maybe it is unfair for me to make that statement in ways but these paddles hit with such power it just ups the risk to equipment and other players that I don't think is fair. In rec play, I don't normally even check other players equipment so if others use them, it is what it is. As I noted, I don't have any of them or any power paddle, so I will not be using them. The players take a risk by buying any paddle but the companies putting them out should meet the requirements of the game before selling them. I believe players should have better opportunities for trade-in allowance or return options as I feel it is less the players fault they are now in that position.
Well said!
i don't mind playing against them, now that they are banned in a few months, but I certainly will make a point to say something if I get blasted by a ball.....as for paying half price for a new paddle, I would be pissed...got me 300 the first time, sent it back for an upgraded, legal paddle and now that paddle is going to be banned...half price won't cut it for me if I had paid all that money....Joola will say it was "legal" when they made it but why are they the only big seller who got banned...Gear box is a pretty big company but I bet not half the size of Joola...black ace ban was a joke...paddle is 3-4 yrs old
Yeah, but, I think everyone knows the Black Aces are too powerful. Thanks for watching.
I very often see players buying the latest paddles every couple months. Just so they can keep up with other players (@ 3.5 level and up). These banned paddles will have the gritty surface wear down by these players and their paddle will be replaced.
A bigger question is what paddles are just under the USAPA threshold yet approved? Will that threshold be lowered again (resulting in more paddles being banned)?
USAPA shouldn't have approved these paddles in the first place.
As far as rec players, I see some playing with very old fiberglass and even wooden paddles. Is USAPA going to ban wooden paddles (as the originator of this game created)?
This will sort itself out by 2026...
Good question. Thanks for watching.
No, they won't be. If they pass the PBCoR limit of .43 then they're good through at least May of 2026 and if they have the "PBCoR" stamp on the paddle, they're good for beyond that. Went through this with the production Ronbus Ripple which just got fully approved and releases to the wider public on 01/30.
Rules of the game should not be selectively enforced nor selectively observed. If a paddle is removed from the list of approved paddles, that becomes problematic and manufacturers should provide full refunds to their customers. Purchasing a paddle that has not been approved seems foolhardy.
Good point! Thanks for watching.
Tools should be ashamed!!!! They need to issue FULL replace cost. No way would I buy from them if it were me.
Thanks for responding. I appreciate it.
People that play with the banned paddles are cheaters.
A lot of viewers agree with you. Thanks for watching.
Personally I would never spend that amount on a paddle. Keep it simple-stupid! A rec player owning a pricey high-tech paddle indicates to me that the player is trying to somehow make up for lack of skill. Leave the fancy paddles for the pros.
A sign on one door. $300 paddle guaranteed to improve your game. There are 100 people in line waiting to buy it. Sign on the other door. Pickleball lessons taught by a certified professional. Number of people in line to get lessons, zero. That about sums it up. Thanks for watching
If people have disposable income and want to spend it. who is to judge! Having a nicer paddle improves the pickleball experience. 300 dollars is nothing in other sports. Try buying a 15k road bike. Or a 250k sailboat. I spend 20 hours a week playing pickleball, for me 300 dollars is perfectly acceptable.
USAPA...YOU SHOULD BOT be stamping approved on paddles until they are TESTED!!! I bought a Black Ace this fall as I had worn out 4 Peo Linnex paddles that I loved. My game has progressed, so I honored myself with a new Kenetic paddle...I need it for severe tennis elbow and bicep tendon sensitivity. My surprise when a month later the BANNED 😡🤬
list came out!!! I feel it is yet another way for USAPA to dupe money from players. NOT COOL. I am taking my paddle back to the trusted store to request a replacement paddle!!!!! BOO USAPA!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, this is all on USAP. Don't know why naysayers blame the manufacturers and players that use any kind of approved paddles. Why don't these same folks go after users of Chinese knockoff paddles that aren't sanctioned by anybody?
Best of luck. Thanks for watching.
Good question.
As a rec player I would not use a banned paddle. I really don’t look to see what the other players are using. Maybe I should??? I always wear safety glasses and I took a fluke shot that hit me squarely on my right eye area a month ago. The glasses saved me from a serious injury. When the ball hit the glasses lens it ricocheted to my cheekbone and left a red scuff mark. Without those glasses my eye would have taken the full brunt. As an afterthought, I guess I should start paying more attention to what paddle I’m playing against.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment.
See a lot of complaining and grumbling from seemingly unathletic and low-level players. Fact of the matter is that any good player can play well with any paddle and can dink, drop and spin their way to wins with or without a power paddle. I switched from my Mod TA 14mm to a Diadem EDGE 18K SP days before the Selkirk sponsored tournament in Houston this past weekend and my partner and I won silver in our division. And there are a bunch of players that hit harder than me in my neck of the woods that play with control paddles.
By the way, I see a bunch of players these days playing with Chinese knockoffs and unapproved brands, where's the uproar over these? None of them went through *any* approval process.
Congratulations on getting silver! Yes, I see players playing with knockoffs that are not legal. Something is going to have to be done. There are just too many unreputable, no-name companies making paddles. And, some players don't know better than to buy one.
I would not play rec or tournament ball with an illegal paddle. Especially, if it made the ball move faster. I would hate to hurt someone and I would not like winning knowing that I cheated.
Good to know you have a conscience. Thanks for watching.
Please stop the self-righteous. Tournament play you follow the rules but recreational playing is for fun.
While I understand your response, I do think it may be a bit unfair. One issue I have is that the power paddle also creates additional risk to players. As a player who has been hit by both direct and off the net shots, I can state that there is a huge difference in both moving out of the way of or being hit by shots from these higher power paddles. In fact, I'd argue that rec players are generally not as good so may be at more risk than higher power paddles. Just my take.
if you are using one of those paddles is really fun for those playing against it? I answer you with a NO!