Hi pick-apart! I’m the guy in the white shirt. I loved the breakdown! Definitely a big difference between both styles of play. Our match was the gold medal match of a 5.5 UTR APP tournament, which translates to about a 4.5 DUPR (my DUPR is sitting at 4.6 at the moment). Drops, resets, and transitioning is definitely a big portion of what I need to work on to improve my game. For tournaments and high pressure games that I am very nervous about, I find myself tensing up and playing a lot faster as you’ve seen 😂 I think you’re correct in that higher level players are more patient and high percentage in their game, often leading to longer rallies. But as some others have been mentioning as well, I think there is something to be said about seizing opportunities to attack and add pressure. I don’t really subscribe to the idea that “pickleball must be played a certain way”. If your drives are winning then that’s great. It’s up to the opponent to prove you wrong. Great players have both soft and fast game- i’m always looking to improve both!
Hello Ed. I'm very familiar with your youtube channel. You do a great job with it. I know you haven't been playing all that long. You have really gotten much better in a short period of time. So, that tells me you spend time drilling and practicing to be the best you can be in all aspects of the game. Being someone who is a senior player, I get a little frustrated playing against younger players, (who don't have near the skill you do) who simply hit the ball as hard as they can, trying to overpower me and my partner who is also a senior. A lot of times what happens is, when I hit third shot drop, after third shot drop, they have no idea what to do with it. At times, it's rather comical. When our opponents, who view us as a couple of old guys who they can easily dominate on the court, walk to the net to tap paddles after we have soundly defeated them, they don't know what to say. Some younger players have kindly said things like, "I guess we underestimated y'alls ability." Or, "Well, that wasn't the outcome we were expecting." As to who would win if you and your partner played one of the senior teams in the video, I think the outcome would depend a lot on this...which team can force the other team to play their game. If they seniors try to match your power game, I think they would lose. But, if the seniors trapped you into playing a much more softer game than you are accustomed to playing, I like their chances. I really appreciate you watching my channel and taking the time to reach out. If you ever do a video in which you interview players and want to get an opinion from someone my age, let me know. I'd be happy to do it. I worked in radio and tv for 35 years and am not afraid of a microphone or camera! Have a Merry Christmas!
I started playing a little over a year ago. When i started i wanted to play hard. I didn't know how the game was played, the rallies were short. Then i took lessons and learned fundamental aspects. I found a group of "older" players and noticed how "gentle" yhe game seemed, i started playing with them and learned drops, resets, and found that the soft game was actually harder than driving everything. Lots of practice with soft game really really changed the game and my mindset. Now i have a more rounded game with touch and power when needed. Its fun to drop shot a "banger" and watch them either hit the ball into the net or pop it up because they had to run in to get the drop. Often someone that has a good soft game can catch a banger off guard with slower pace, placement, and dinks. The soft game is actually harder than driving every single ball. Longer rallies and patience goes a long way.
I'm in my early 60's, and I play with both younger players and older players whose style more closely matches the younger players. This is the way that pickleball is trending. I used to third shot drop 90% of my shots. Now it's probably 50/50 and trending towards more driving, as I get better at driving just above the net. The goal is always an easier fifth shot drop. With regard to the older players' patience, they missed a ton of potential put-aways and speed-ups that would have resulted in eventual put-aways. I also agree with others' comments that it's much more difficult to reset balls with lots of pace. That increased pace represents increased pressure, and pressure is the name of the game today. I'm a 4.4 DUPR.
Yes, I realize that it's more like third shot drive, 5th shot reset. But if you notice, the young guys drive the third, they drive the fifth they drive the seventh. Thanks for watching.
The younger guys are from Ed Ju’s channel. He’s a content creator, the guy with a tank top and a pretty darn good player. He does indeed have a good reset and softer game. He also routinely practices softer shots and can play the game like the seniors. In the younger player power game, in one of your examples, it’s very difficult to reset when the ball is coming back with so much pace. So first and foremost, he and his teammates’ job is to keep his team in the rally. And wait for an opportunity. Even in top tier pro games, once one team has an advantage and has the other team back, it often takes several attempts for the team on defense to get back to neutral. Resets are very difficult when people are hitting lasers at you no matter your soft game skill level. I honestly think you’re underestimating the skill of the younger guys. When the ball is moving so fast, it’s harder to highlight your softer game. Because they’re taking every opportunity to put pressure on their opponents. There’s not one style (power or soft) that’s better than the other. You really need to be balanced. The game is evolving. And if you only have a soft game, you are likely to get run over by a skilled power player. And if you only have a power game, the softer game can neutralize your strengths. Right now, because of paddle tech and increased athleticism of young pros, the game is getting faster…and quite frankly, favoring the power game. For what it’s worth, I also prefer the style of the senior players. The soft shots will never go out of style. And I prefer to play a more patient game, too. But I think it’s a mistake to dismiss the power style.
I'm not really dismissing the power. I like you, think the technology is totally changing the game. And, I don't think it's for the best. At one time racquetball was a talk of the Town. The technology got so advanced, it totally changed the game and no one plays a racquetball anymore. I hope that doesn't happen with pickleball. Thanks for watching.
Have to be honest, the older players seem to miss many opportunities to put the ball away. I play more like the younger players; it's more fun. And I'm a senior.
I play more like the seniors and I think it is way more fun and interesting but I agree with your assessment. The rare speedup failed because it wasn't the right ball to speed up and it looked like there were plenty that were attackable that they didn't take advantage of. One power group I play with counter 3rd shot drives with driving it back rather than blocking or resetting and the same rules apply when they are able to do it. Team at the kitchen has the advantage. That is the group of players the drop is pretty effective against. I would like to see a 5.0 DUPR senior vs 5.0 DUPR youth. I think it would be in the favor of the youth. Ideally rankings would be the same across the board, meaning a 5.0 senior should be about as good as a 5.0 young guy and 5.0 guy should be the same as a 5.0 female but I get why that is not the reality.
I'd put my money on younger players vs senior players, Lately Even pro players drive 3rd more than drop and are attacking more, Good example of difference in play is Johns bros vs Alshon/Duong with the "bangers " winning
5.0s I know have both skill sets. The serves by the young looked tougher to return but neither group had deep returns so young had a lot of attackable third shots but the seniors would have done very well dropping those same shots. When the seniors did up the pace they seemed to have good hands and dug or reset well but I also thought the younger players would beat the older just with the more aggressive play. 5.0 seemed like a bit of a stretch for both groups but a combination of the two best, or maybe even the average, from each group would easily be over 5.00.
I prefer a soft game but will drive when appropriate. Also, point of dinks are to try to get a popup so you can smash. Your not winning the point on a dink its potentially the next shot. I think the seniors missed some opportunities to speed up. 5.0 for the youngsters. IDK. I like a mix of both soft and power. Maybe a pick apart with youngsters playing seniors and see how that goes. LOVE your pick a parts... Former 4.5 tennis player (63) who is really enjoying pickleball. My tennis game was slice and attach so transitions well into pickleball. Haven't given up tennis yet, but soon as hard on my body
It is much easier to drop or reset a shot that is half the speed of the youngsters. Not sure the seniors resets and drops would be as consistent when dealing with the power
I am a little surprised these players are rated at 5.0 and above. Notice how they hold their paddles when standing at the kitchen line. Many of the balls could be taken out of the air, but because their paddles are hanging down at their sides they just don't have time to react to the balls that are dinked a little on the high side.
and its not about their age its about the skill and exp they have. Seniors might have 10+ years of playing tennis or any raquet sports and youngs guys just 1-2 years of PBall
I don't know if any of the players play or once played tennis. Just judging from their swings, I don't think they are tennis players. They don't have bad habits some tennis players who play pickleball do. Thanks for watching.
Not sure about the comment that "they just can't reset the ball". The young guys are better at being aggressive against the resets, so it looks like a bad reset. The 50's let them bounce and keep dinking. Young guys attack more and pretty good at it. I 'd bet on the young guys.
Ha c’mon Rory…you’re comparing dupe rated players to utr ratings. At one point you say the young guys don’t look like 5.5’s to you. You’re right. They don’t. That’s because they’re not. Ed Ju (white tank top) is 4.6 in dupr. So this video is apples to oranges. Haha and I’d still take 4.6 20 somethings over 5.0 50+ guys. Easy to reset balls that never get sped up 😂
Hi pick-apart! I’m the guy in the white shirt. I loved the breakdown! Definitely a big difference between both styles of play.
Our match was the gold medal match of a 5.5 UTR APP tournament, which translates to about a 4.5 DUPR (my DUPR is sitting at 4.6 at the moment).
Drops, resets, and transitioning is definitely a big portion of what I need to work on to improve my game. For tournaments and high pressure games that I am very nervous about, I find myself tensing up and playing a lot faster as you’ve seen 😂
I think you’re correct in that higher level players are more patient and high percentage in their game, often leading to longer rallies.
But as some others have been mentioning as well, I think there is something to be said about seizing opportunities to attack and add pressure.
I don’t really subscribe to the idea that “pickleball must be played a certain way”. If your drives are winning then that’s great. It’s up to the opponent to prove you wrong.
Great players have both soft and fast game- i’m always looking to improve both!
Hello Ed. I'm very familiar with your youtube channel. You do a great job with it. I know you haven't been playing all that long. You have really gotten much better in a short period of time. So, that tells me you spend time drilling and practicing to be the best you can be in all aspects of the game.
Being someone who is a senior player, I get a little frustrated playing against younger players, (who don't have near the skill you do) who simply hit the ball as hard as they can, trying to overpower me and my partner who is also a senior. A lot of times what happens is, when I hit third shot drop, after third shot drop, they have no idea what to do with it. At times, it's rather comical. When our opponents, who view us as a couple of old guys who they can easily dominate on the court, walk to the net to tap paddles after we have soundly defeated them, they don't know what to say. Some younger players have kindly said things like, "I guess we underestimated y'alls ability." Or, "Well, that wasn't the outcome we were expecting."
As to who would win if you and your partner played one of the senior teams in the video, I think the outcome would depend a lot on this...which team can force the other team to play their game. If they seniors try to match your power game, I think they would lose. But, if the seniors trapped you into playing a much more softer game than you are accustomed to playing, I like their chances.
I really appreciate you watching my channel and taking the time to reach out. If you ever do a video in which you interview players and want to get an opinion from someone my age, let me know. I'd be happy to do it. I worked in radio and tv for 35 years and am not afraid of a microphone or camera! Have a Merry Christmas!
12:42 Ed hits gorgeously placed inside out passing shot. Rory's immediate hot take: the seniors' pickleball skills are just much, much better ;-)
I started playing a little over a year ago. When i started i wanted to play hard. I didn't know how the game was played, the rallies were short. Then i took lessons and learned fundamental aspects. I found a group of "older" players and noticed how "gentle" yhe game seemed, i started playing with them and learned drops, resets, and found that the soft game was actually harder than driving everything. Lots of practice with soft game really really changed the game and my mindset. Now i have a more rounded game with touch and power when needed. Its fun to drop shot a "banger" and watch them either hit the ball into the net or pop it up because they had to run in to get the drop. Often someone that has a good soft game can catch a banger off guard with slower pace, placement, and dinks. The soft game is actually harder than driving every single ball. Longer rallies and patience goes a long way.
I'm in my early 60's, and I play with both younger players and older players whose style more closely matches the younger players. This is the way that pickleball is trending. I used to third shot drop 90% of my shots. Now it's probably 50/50 and trending towards more driving, as I get better at driving just above the net. The goal is always an easier fifth shot drop. With regard to the older players' patience, they missed a ton of potential put-aways and speed-ups that would have resulted in eventual put-aways. I also agree with others' comments that it's much more difficult to reset balls with lots of pace. That increased pace represents increased pressure, and pressure is the name of the game today. I'm a 4.4 DUPR.
Yes, I realize that it's more like third shot drive, 5th shot reset. But if you notice, the young guys drive the third, they drive the fifth they drive the seventh. Thanks for watching.
The younger guys are from Ed Ju’s channel. He’s a content creator, the guy with a tank top and a pretty darn good player. He does indeed have a good reset and softer game. He also routinely practices softer shots and can play the game like the seniors.
In the younger player power game, in one of your examples, it’s very difficult to reset when the ball is coming back with so much pace. So first and foremost, he and his teammates’ job is to keep his team in the rally. And wait for an opportunity. Even in top tier pro games, once one team has an advantage and has the other team back, it often takes several attempts for the team on defense to get back to neutral. Resets are very difficult when people are hitting lasers at you no matter your soft game skill level.
I honestly think you’re underestimating the skill of the younger guys. When the ball is moving so fast, it’s harder to highlight your softer game. Because they’re taking every opportunity to put pressure on their opponents.
There’s not one style (power or soft) that’s better than the other. You really need to be balanced. The game is evolving. And if you only have a soft game, you are likely to get run over by a skilled power player. And if you only have a power game, the softer game can neutralize your strengths. Right now, because of paddle tech and increased athleticism of young pros, the game is getting faster…and quite frankly, favoring the power game.
For what it’s worth, I also prefer the style of the senior players. The soft shots will never go out of style. And I prefer to play a more patient game, too. But I think it’s a mistake to dismiss the power style.
I'm not really dismissing the power. I like you, think the technology is totally changing the game. And, I don't think it's for the best. At one time racquetball was a talk of the Town. The technology got so advanced, it totally changed the game and no one plays a racquetball anymore. I hope that doesn't happen with pickleball. Thanks for watching.
if the younger players play the seniors the younger players would win
Agree, the balls that they use power on are ones they should be using power. Most are attackable.
The young guy in the white tank top looks like Ed Ju.
It is and he wrote a very nice comment.
Have to be honest, the older players seem to miss many opportunities to put the ball away. I play more like the younger players; it's more fun. And I'm a senior.
I play more like the seniors and I think it is way more fun and interesting but I agree with your assessment. The rare speedup failed because it wasn't the right ball to speed up and it looked like there were plenty that were attackable that they didn't take advantage of. One power group I play with counter 3rd shot drives with driving it back rather than blocking or resetting and the same rules apply when they are able to do it. Team at the kitchen has the advantage. That is the group of players the drop is pretty effective against. I would like to see a 5.0 DUPR senior vs 5.0 DUPR youth. I think it would be in the favor of the youth. Ideally rankings would be the same across the board, meaning a 5.0 senior should be about as good as a 5.0 young guy and 5.0 guy should be the same as a 5.0 female but I get why that is not the reality.
Good point. I think that is a flaw in the DUPR system. Age and gender are not considered in the formula. Thanks for watching.
I'd put my money on younger players vs senior players,
Lately Even pro players drive 3rd more than drop and are attacking more,
Good example of difference in play is Johns bros vs Alshon/Duong with the "bangers " winning
That Duong guy is incredible.
5.0s I know have both skill sets. The serves by the young looked tougher to return but neither group had deep returns so young had a lot of attackable third shots but the seniors would have done very well dropping those same shots. When the seniors did up the pace they seemed to have good hands and dug or reset well but I also thought the younger players would beat the older just with the more aggressive play. 5.0 seemed like a bit of a stretch for both groups but a combination of the two best, or maybe even the average, from each group would easily be over 5.00.
Thanks for watching and thanks for you comments.
I prefer a soft game but will drive when appropriate. Also, point of dinks are to try to get a popup so you can smash. Your not winning the point on a dink its potentially the next shot. I think the seniors missed some opportunities to speed up. 5.0 for the youngsters. IDK. I like a mix of both soft and power. Maybe a pick apart with youngsters playing seniors and see how that goes. LOVE your pick a parts... Former 4.5 tennis player (63) who is really enjoying pickleball. My tennis game was slice and attach so transitions well into pickleball. Haven't given up tennis yet, but soon as hard on my body
Yeah. Tennis is much harder on the body. Thanks for watching
It is much easier to drop or reset a shot that is half the speed of the youngsters. Not sure the seniors resets and drops would be as consistent when dealing with the power
The speed of the game does change it. But, I think the seniors are highly skilled and can probably handle it. Thanks for watching.
I am a little surprised these players are rated at 5.0 and above. Notice how they hold their paddles when standing at the kitchen line. Many of the balls could be taken out of the air, but because their paddles are hanging down at their sides they just don't have time to react to the balls that are dinked a little on the high side.
That's a good point. Being in an athletic position and with your paddle up and out in front of you is the ideal thing to do at the NVZ.
seniors almost don't move . and also these yongsters are 4.0+ , if we can find it out on Ed channel
Well, this is the title of the video of the game on youtube. 2024 OWL APP Newport Beach Open Men's Doubles UTR 5.5 19+.
and its not about their age its about the skill and exp they have. Seniors might have 10+ years of playing tennis or any raquet sports and youngs guys just 1-2 years of PBall
I don't know if any of the players play or once played tennis. Just judging from their swings, I don't think they are tennis players. They don't have bad habits some tennis players who play pickleball do. Thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 I mean, it's very subjective all u said in this video, because you can't know the whole truth and background.
Not sure about the comment that "they just can't reset the ball". The young guys are better at being aggressive against the resets, so it looks like a bad reset. The 50's let them bounce and keep dinking. Young guys attack more and pretty good at it. I 'd bet on the young guys.
We'll just have to disagree on that. Thanks for watching.
Ha c’mon Rory…you’re comparing dupe rated players to utr ratings. At one point you say the young guys don’t look like 5.5’s to you. You’re right. They don’t. That’s because they’re not. Ed Ju (white tank top) is 4.6 in dupr. So this video is apples to oranges. Haha and I’d still take 4.6 20 somethings over 5.0 50+ guys. Easy to reset balls that never get sped up 😂
I was going off by the title of the video they posted. They don't have 5.0. They have 5.5.