Those shot selection and placement comments are not just good for now but also help with future development. Keep in mind that while you are 3.0 playing 3.0 you'll keep getting better and may not feel the pains of those mistakes yet. However, you progress and you start seeing players in the 3.5, 4.0 and up levels not only will you pay more for mistakes, but their shots will cause you to make more errors. Working on things like getting your 3rd shot drops down, positioning and shot selections will help you as you advance. Those mistakes or lack of abilities will be amplified if not corrected before moving up. Best of luck as you grow! It's a fun game.
You're totally right about shot selection and placement. I'm hopeful these players spend some time studying the game and realizing what it takes to advance in skill level. Thanks for watching.
Rory you make an excellent point about cheating into the kitchen too soon either on serve or 5th shot. I find this happening a lot with 3.5 players or under. There are many players who think you should try to rush the kitchen line but if your shot is not quality then you will get smashed or passed trying to get into the kitchen. If you are serving you should NEVER cheat into the kitchen until you know where that ball is going to bounce on your side. Do you know how frustrating that is?? After a few games of trying to explain this to people I just give up and move to a different court. If your 3rd drop/drive is not good you have no business advancing, stay back and try again... and again.. until they win the point or you get the drop you want, If both players are back you can even re-drive the ball, just not consecutively. It only takes one good drop to get into the kitchen but you and your partner have to know which one it is. If you make the wrong decision its point over. Second point - dont swing at the ball when blocking.. very very good advice. Unfortunately I see this alot in open rec as well.
As always, you make great points. One that is kind of hidden, is this one. It's usually best to not follow a drive with a drive. So, instead of third shot drive, fifth shot drive, 7th shot drive, which I see very often, third shot drive, fifth shot reset.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 3rd shot drive should almost always be followed by 5th shot drive, with the exception of the shake and bake due to a pop up. We think the same here.. In general after the 5th drop you should continue dropping until you reach the kitchen. There are always exceptions to the rule. No two pickleball points are ever the same.
Moving forward, after your team serves, puts you at a disadvantage when the return of serve is deep, as it should be. Cheaters cheat to gain an advantage. My point is, moving forward after your teams serve ia "creeping in" not "cheating in".
I've noticed that most players at the 3.0 (and below) level don't quite invest in the third/fifth shot drop and even dink rally. It could be because after learning the rules of the game, they tend to rely on skills from some other paddle/racquet sport they used to play and they get so caught up in the frenzy of just trying to "stay in the point" or earn them through trickery rather than skill. Note my use of the word "frenzy". Because the court is only so large, most players find it easier to play with either long lofty shots (such as lobs) or hard drives to either buy time or get the point over and done with. This is also why they tend to use the back-spin/slice is more prevalent than the top or side spin shots. Developing a soft touch, techniques and patience,is hard for most players and they often resign themselves to the excitement, fun and frustrations of the fast-paced hard game. So, to your point, Rory ... they end up not really developing any or much skill. I'm a graduate of the type of play and I'm glad it's behind me. I appreciate a more sophisticated and strategic approach and I bring that attitude to my games. I'm oftentimes surprised when players, with over 6 months of consistent playing under their belt, question the need to dink and complain that the game is too quick to formulate and execute on strategies. Sufficed to say, I'm of the opinion that these players will never get to level 3.5. Thanks for posting these matches, Rory. In the past several weeks, your channel has been instrumental in helping me up my game.
I agree with you, however if I were playing anyone who is low 4.0 or under in tournament I would 100% smash and crash first to see if they can handle the pressure before trying to play any kind of finesse shot. (Tanner Pickleball also recommends this method as well even when playing his pro matches) Start with power and work your way to finesse. Why play hard points when you can play easier faster ones. Most non-advanced players do not have good enough blocks/counters to stop a well executed drive or sustain a firefight. You may not consider it fun but its effective and will often win you more points. If you could get at advantage by playing aggressive the first 3 shots why wouldn't you want to? Most 4.0 points end within 5 shots for this reason.
@okayest_amateur ... I think that what's being (perhaps incorrectly) assumed is that a player with a well developed soft game does not have a comparable hard or (at least) defensive/offensive game. I also watch many other channels and whereas it's important to test your opponent to see what they can handle, so that you can hammer out a strategy, at the pro or advanced level, I promise you that most players have a strong defensive and attacking game. So, they don't come to their matches to experiment with the opening points to figure out a plan. They've already studied their opponent and have a range of options in their war chest to pull from ... and least of these is a full on hard game from the baseline and transition zone at the onset. Since you control the game when you are up at the net, any player worth their salt will tell you that you had better have a strong dink and drop game because that's where most opportunities are found when you play good adversaries.
Hey Rory, I got into pickleball a few months ago and love watching your videos. How do I contact you about a video I made so you could *possibly* analyze it?!
I hate this type of pickleball. Players with werid serves, wrist floppy hits, short lobs as 2nd shot returns, creeping onto the court after serving... I play mostly general open play with random people, and it feels like a clown show. Sometimes I wonder how much longer that I'll stick with the sport.
I hope you don't give it up. I think you just need to find better players to play with. However, I understand why you find it discouraging. Pickleball is the, in, thing. People who have never played a sport in their life want to be a part of it, so they go buy a $40 paddle and step on to the court without having a clue as how the game is meant to be played.
The top of the paddle face is supposed to be at or below your wrist at the point of ball contact. Her serve appears to be illegal due to no upward motion at point of contact with the ball. Hard to tell with that camera angle.
@@CWK090Nope, both feet must be behind the base line. #5 The rules for pickleball serves There are six main rules to understand when making a legal pickleball serve. 1. The serving motion for pickleball must be upward. This means the server’s arm must move in an upward arc when the ball is struck. No hitting from above, or from the side. 2. The point where the paddle makes contact with the ball must be below your waistline, specifically below the level of your navel. The taller you are, the higher this limit will be. 3. The head of the paddle must be below the highest part of your wrist at contact. In other words, the paddle must be below your hand rather than above it as you hit your serve. 4. Only one serve attempt is allowed. Unless you score a point, after your serve, it’s the next player’s turn. If you or your team score a point from your serve, you continue serving until your team messes up and you lose service. 5. Both feet must be behind the baseline when serving. This one is easy to forget in the heat of play. When serving, at least one of your feet must be touching the ground behind the baseline. Your feet must also be inside the imaginary extension of the sideline and centerline, i.e. behind your rectangle on the court. 6. A pickleball serve must land in the diagonally opposite service area. Pickleball serving rules state that the serve is always made diagonally across the court, like in tennis.
Slice spin on a return immediately tells you they are a 3.0 player? I guess Tyson McGuffin is a 3.0player😢 If you actually notice, putting backspin on the ball in this circumstance particularly actually was very effective, most players at lower levels can’t read spin or can’t seem to be able to deal with it.
@ oh for sure! But slice spin in and of itself is not necessarily a sign of low level, if anything it might show the capability of imparting spin onto the ball. In this game in particular, the player who returned with backspin/slice spin won the exchange 5/6 times. In my honest opinion, where he showed his lower level was when he didn’t read that one particular advantage he had; that the other team couldn’t handle backspin.
You kept remarking about not using the slice serve, meanwhile, it was very effective against the male player. He wasn't getting under it and kept driving it into the net. Maybe if those serves were being returned with topspin, the server would have changed it up.
Her serve is too hard to read from the video for me. It feels like she's flicking at it with her wrist more than anything, but as to whether it's illegal or not? Couldn't say.
This isn't even,3.0 play. The one team is stacking and in reality they need to work on fundamentals before worrying about stacking. Both teams made many mistakes and were in poor positions many different times. Not getting to the nvz quick enough will kill your overall game. I find it difficult myself to play when im paired with a partner that either plays at the baseline or camps in the transition zone half the game. GET TO THE NVZ!!!
@@Orefamilylawncare I do not agree with the obsession around: “GET TO THE NVZ!!!”. It is the best position to be. It gives you advantage to be, as a team, at the NVZ, but if you haven’t actually EARNED, the NVZ, and you rush to it, you will get caught unstable unless you hit a pin point perfect drop/reset. Split stepping, playing the mid-court, and finally EARNING the NVZ is the way to go. To be fair, at =< 3.0 level, most people are told: “hit and rush to the net!!!”
@@alexcereuceta5907 I was initially taught to 'run' to the net and didn't care where my partner was. That was poor instruction. You don't want to hit the ball while running, if possible, as you are off-balance. It makes more sense to 'advance' to the net, with your partner, stopping and split-stepping to defend when necessary. It is basic geometry. You and your partner form a defensive wall. You don't want to run to the net and leave your partner behind as that opens the gap in the middle. If the ball is hit to your opponent across from the player who is still back, your opponent has a huge gap in the middle to target. More often than not, the middle is the preferred target as the net is slightly lower and it often creates confusion as to which player should hit the ball, especially at lower levels when players aren't communicating, "You", "Me" etc.
@ that’s exactly right! And that might be my biggest gripe with Rory and his commentary, there is still the obsession with getting as fast as possible to the NVZ, or claiming that their biggest mistake is not getting to the NVZ (which it might sometimes be the case), when there are so many more things to advice on but more importantly the why that advise is given, because without a solid foundational understanding of the reasoning behind why we advise what we advise, and do what we do, there is no functional reason why anyone should listen to us: “ahh, see? Backspin slice return, that’s low level”. Ok, but why is it? And why could it actually be beneficial to impart some sometimes? For instance.
Sam. I checked out the video. It's a nice facility, but, there's one thing they did wrong. The walls are white. That makes the yellow ball very hard to pick up, especially on video. Blue or black walls are so much better. Maybe send me a link to a game in another facility.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 correct -- The several hundred clips in this play list were recorded during rec play with copyrighted music being played. The muted parts are the result of youtube studies limited editing capabilities. The 'no audio' is by design and not a mistake.
Those shot selection and placement comments are not just good for now but also help with future development. Keep in mind that while you are 3.0 playing 3.0 you'll keep getting better and may not feel the pains of those mistakes yet. However, you progress and you start seeing players in the 3.5, 4.0 and up levels not only will you pay more for mistakes, but their shots will cause you to make more errors. Working on things like getting your 3rd shot drops down, positioning and shot selections will help you as you advance. Those mistakes or lack of abilities will be amplified if not corrected before moving up. Best of luck as you grow! It's a fun game.
You're totally right about shot selection and placement. I'm hopeful these players spend some time studying the game and realizing what it takes to advance in skill level. Thanks for watching.
Nice analysis!
Thanks. I appreciate you watching.
Rory you make an excellent point about cheating into the kitchen too soon either on serve or 5th shot. I find this happening a lot with 3.5 players or under. There are many players who think you should try to rush the kitchen line but if your shot is not quality then you will get smashed or passed trying to get into the kitchen. If you are serving you should NEVER cheat into the kitchen until you know where that ball is going to bounce on your side. Do you know how frustrating that is?? After a few games of trying to explain this to people I just give up and move to a different court. If your 3rd drop/drive is not good you have no business advancing, stay back and try again... and again.. until they win the point or you get the drop you want, If both players are back you can even re-drive the ball, just not consecutively. It only takes one good drop to get into the kitchen but you and your partner have to know which one it is. If you make the wrong decision its point over.
Second point - dont swing at the ball when blocking.. very very good advice. Unfortunately I see this alot in open rec as well.
As always, you make great points. One that is kind of hidden, is this one. It's usually best to not follow a drive with a drive. So, instead of third shot drive, fifth shot drive, 7th shot drive, which I see very often, third shot drive, fifth shot reset.
@ yep. totally agree.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 3rd shot drive should almost always be followed by 5th shot drive, with the exception of the shake and bake due to a pop up. We think the same here.. In general after the 5th drop you should continue dropping until you reach the kitchen. There are always exceptions to the rule. No two pickleball points are ever the same.
Moving forward, after your team serves, puts you at a disadvantage when the return of serve is deep, as it should be.
Cheaters cheat to gain an advantage.
My point is, moving forward after your teams serve ia "creeping in" not "cheating in".
@@CWK090 Thats fine. Were talking about the same thing and I'm not implying its cheating.
this is great content! enjoyed your analysis!
Thanks for the nice compliment and thanks for watching.
I've noticed that most players at the 3.0 (and below) level don't quite invest in the third/fifth shot drop and even dink rally.
It could be because after learning the rules of the game, they tend to rely on skills from some other paddle/racquet sport they used to play and they get so caught up in the frenzy of just trying to "stay in the point" or earn them through trickery rather than skill. Note my use of the word "frenzy". Because the court is only so large, most players find it easier to play with either long lofty shots (such as lobs) or hard drives to either buy time or get the point over and done with. This is also why they tend to use the back-spin/slice is more prevalent than the top or side spin shots.
Developing a soft touch, techniques and patience,is hard for most players and they often resign themselves to the excitement, fun and frustrations of the fast-paced hard game. So, to your point, Rory ... they end up not really developing any or much skill.
I'm a graduate of the type of play and I'm glad it's behind me. I appreciate a more sophisticated and strategic approach and I bring that attitude to my games. I'm oftentimes surprised when players, with over 6 months of consistent playing under their belt, question the need to dink and complain that the game is too quick to formulate and execute on strategies. Sufficed to say, I'm of the opinion that these players will never get to level 3.5.
Thanks for posting these matches, Rory. In the past several weeks, your channel has been instrumental in helping me up my game.
Awesome. I'm so glad the videos are helping you. You seem to have a total understanding of what it takes to be a good player.
@pickleballpick-apart9787 ... I'm enjoying my journey and your channel is certainly contributing to my evolution.
I agree with you, however if I were playing anyone who is low 4.0 or under in tournament I would 100% smash and crash first to see if they can handle the pressure before trying to play any kind of finesse shot. (Tanner Pickleball also recommends this method as well even when playing his pro matches) Start with power and work your way to finesse. Why play hard points when you can play easier faster ones. Most non-advanced players do not have good enough blocks/counters to stop a well executed drive or sustain a firefight. You may not consider it fun but its effective and will often win you more points. If you could get at advantage by playing aggressive the first 3 shots why wouldn't you want to? Most 4.0 points end within 5 shots for this reason.
@okayest_amateur ... I think that what's being (perhaps incorrectly) assumed is that a player with a well developed soft game does not have a comparable hard or (at least) defensive/offensive game.
I also watch many other channels and whereas it's important to test your opponent to see what they can handle, so that you can hammer out a strategy, at the pro or advanced level, I promise you that most players have a strong defensive and attacking game. So, they don't come to their matches to experiment with the opening points to figure out a plan. They've already studied their opponent and have a range of options in their war chest to pull from ... and least of these is a full on hard game from the baseline and transition zone at the onset.
Since you control the game when you are up at the net, any player worth their salt will tell you that you had better have a strong dink and drop game because that's where most opportunities are found when you play good adversaries.
Hey Rory, I got into pickleball a few months ago and love watching your videos. How do I contact you about a video I made so you could *possibly* analyze it?!
Awesome. Glad the videos are helping. The only way I can do it is if you have a TH-cam channel and you send me a link. Thanks.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 th-cam.com/video/c59zDs1xGkk/w-d-xo.html
I hate this type of pickleball. Players with werid serves, wrist floppy hits, short lobs as 2nd shot returns, creeping onto the court after serving...
I play mostly general open play with random people, and it feels like a clown show. Sometimes I wonder how much longer that I'll stick with the sport.
I hope you don't give it up. I think you just need to find better players to play with. However, I understand why you find it discouraging. Pickleball is the, in, thing. People who have never played a sport in their life want to be a part of it, so they go buy a $40 paddle and step on to the court without having a clue as how the game is meant to be played.
@pickleballpick-apart9787 exactly correct. I'll give the sport another year.
I agree. I think her serve is illegal. The top of her paddle is under her wrist. It appears when she serves it.
Thanks. It's really hard to tell. Thanks for watching.
The top of the paddle face is supposed to be at or below your wrist at the point of ball contact. Her serve appears to be illegal due to no upward motion at point of contact with the ball. Hard to tell with that camera angle.
It looks like there was a foot fault on the serve at 7:42.
Thanks for watching and playing that out.
Hard to tell from behind. The tip of your shoe can be over part of the line as long as the sole is not touching it.
@@CWK090Nope,
both feet must be behind the base line. #5
The rules for pickleball serves
There are six main rules to understand when making a legal pickleball serve.
1. The serving motion for pickleball must be upward. This means the server’s arm must move in an upward arc when the ball is struck. No hitting from above, or from the side.
2. The point where the paddle makes contact with the ball must be below your waistline, specifically below the level of your navel. The taller you are, the higher this limit will be.
3. The head of the paddle must be below the highest part of your wrist at contact. In other words, the paddle must be below your hand rather than above it as you hit your serve.
4. Only one serve attempt is allowed. Unless you score a point, after your serve, it’s the next player’s turn. If you or your team score a point from your serve, you continue serving until your team messes up and you lose service.
5. Both feet must be behind the baseline when serving. This one is easy to forget in the heat of play. When serving, at least one of your feet must be touching the ground behind the baseline. Your feet must also be inside the imaginary extension of the sideline and centerline, i.e. behind your rectangle on the court.
6. A pickleball serve must land in the diagonally opposite service area. Pickleball serving rules state that the serve is always made diagonally across the court, like in tennis.
Slice spin on a return immediately tells you they are a 3.0 player? I guess Tyson McGuffin is a 3.0player😢
If you actually notice, putting backspin on the ball in this circumstance particularly actually was very effective, most players at lower levels can’t read spin or can’t seem to be able to deal with it.
Most players at lower levels who put slice spin on a ball either hit it into the net or out of the court.
@ oh for sure! But slice spin in and of itself is not necessarily a sign of low level, if anything it might show the capability of imparting spin onto the ball. In this game in particular, the player who returned with backspin/slice spin won the exchange 5/6 times. In my honest opinion, where he showed his lower level was when he didn’t read that one particular advantage he had; that the other team couldn’t handle backspin.
You kept remarking about not using the slice serve, meanwhile, it was very effective against the male player. He wasn't getting under it and kept driving it into the net. Maybe if those serves were being returned with topspin, the server would have changed it up.
That's because the player who missed them is probably a 2.5 player. Against higher level players, the slice spin serve taking really has no effect.
Her serve is too hard to read from the video for me. It feels like she's flicking at it with her wrist more than anything, but as to whether it's illegal or not? Couldn't say.
Yes. It's a tough call. Thanks.
This isn't even,3.0 play. The one team is stacking and in reality they need to work on fundamentals before worrying about stacking. Both teams made many mistakes and were in poor positions many different times. Not getting to the nvz quick enough will kill your overall game. I find it difficult myself to play when im paired with a partner that either plays at the baseline or camps in the transition zone half the game. GET TO THE NVZ!!!
Yes. I don't get stacking at this level of play.
@@Orefamilylawncare I do not agree with the obsession around: “GET TO THE NVZ!!!”. It is the best position to be. It gives you advantage to be, as a team, at the NVZ, but if you haven’t actually EARNED, the NVZ, and you rush to it, you will get caught unstable unless you hit a pin point perfect drop/reset. Split stepping, playing the mid-court, and finally EARNING the NVZ is the way to go. To be fair, at =< 3.0 level, most people are told: “hit and rush to the net!!!”
@@alexcereuceta5907
I was initially taught to 'run' to the net and didn't care where my partner was. That was poor instruction.
You don't want to hit the ball while running, if possible, as you are off-balance.
It makes more sense to 'advance' to the net, with your partner, stopping and split-stepping to defend when necessary.
It is basic geometry. You and your partner form a defensive wall.
You don't want to run to the net and leave your partner behind as that opens the gap in the middle. If the ball is hit to your opponent across from the player who is still back, your opponent has a huge gap in the middle to target.
More often than not, the middle is the preferred target as the net is slightly lower and it often creates confusion as to which player should hit the ball, especially at lower levels when players aren't communicating, "You", "Me" etc.
@ that’s exactly right! And that might be my biggest gripe with Rory and his commentary, there is still the obsession with getting as fast as possible to the NVZ, or claiming that their biggest mistake is not getting to the NVZ (which it might sometimes be the case), when there are so many more things to advice on but more importantly the why that advise is given, because without a solid foundational understanding of the reasoning behind why we advise what we advise, and do what we do, there is no functional reason why anyone should listen to us: “ahh, see? Backspin slice return, that’s low level”. Ok, but why is it? And why could it actually be beneficial to impart some sometimes? For instance.
Hey Rory! I just uploaded gameplay from an Open Division tournament. Give it a watch and let me know what you think!
Okay. I'll try to get it on for Thursday. Thanks.
Sam. I checked out the video. It's a nice facility, but, there's one thing they did wrong. The walls are white. That makes the yellow ball very hard to pick up, especially on video. Blue or black walls are so much better. Maybe send me a link to a game in another facility.
th-cam.com/play/PLD9bdnlHZk_p1jHa6WvdzG5jvwtaODgBh.html
th-cam.com/video/VT1NE6btRv0/w-d-xo.html
Mike. There's no audio for the first third of the video. Maybe send link to another one.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 correct -- The several hundred clips in this play list were recorded during rec play with copyrighted music being played. The muted parts are the result of youtube studies limited editing capabilities. The 'no audio' is by design and not a mistake.