24:00 I strongly disagree. I had no idea that Dune even existed when I first played the board game, and I loved it. Read the books after, and have been a fan ever since. I would never have read Dune if not for the boardgame.
I love your reviews, but I disagree with your assessment of this game. To be fair I purchased this new edition of the game having never played the original before, purely for the love of the books/universe. It rested on my shelf unplayed it until some friends, that also had a copy and had played an introductory 2 player game, forced me to get it to the table. After an agile 30 minutes explanation, the preconceptions that I had, based on other reviews, on rule fiddliness and outdated design went completely out of the window. Sure, certain elements in the game mechanics might evoke a bygone era in boardgames, but I think they contribute to make the game stand out, and give out a rich thematic flavour that can appeal as much to fans of the lore as to people that haven't the slightest idea what Dune is about. We certainly overlooked a few rules during our first play (and I agree the QS guide could have been better), but overall we had a happy wonderful time playing together, clocking at about 2.30hrs (at 4 players) and we are all looking forward to our next game night to replay this. I think this game is a gem, definitely not for everybody, but one my friends and I very much look forward to explore again and again.
Great review, and while all the points you made are valid, I couldn't disagree more with the final score. For me, the intricacies and unpredictability of the interacting mechanics make Dune exciting in a way that I rarely find in other games. I'm quite a solid board gamer, much to the chagrin of my gaming circle, and I am rarely surprised, regardless of whether I am wining or losing. Even in games with random or hidden information elements, I general have a fairly comprehensive estimation of the probabilities of various events. This makes many games rather tedious. Dune, however, has random elements interacting in sufficiently numerous and unexpected ways that it is almost impossible to predict all possible outcomes of an action, and there are moments in every game which surprise and delight me. The mechanics allow one to make intricate and layered plans, which you are either elated to see succeed or amused when they fail in a totally unexpected way. The highly irregular game length is an unavoidable outcome of this unpredictability. I agree that the rules should be better written and they could have improved the board scaling and unit tokens, but the Dune is a real gem which, for me, provides a wholly unique gaming experience.
Big 4X gamer here. We went from Risk>Axis & Allies>Eagle games Civilization>Attack>Eclipse>Civ New dawn>TI4>Dune (2019). Of all these games, the only one I want to play again is Dune and TI4. Stripping away the theme, TI4 is like the sequel to Dune. Dune is this intimate wargame with faction powers and hidden information in cards. Mechanically, TI4 IS Dune plus Command tokens, Agenda phase, randomized victory conditions, Strategy Cards, and tech tree. It's Dune with way more stuff. But they really have the same flavor. Dune is just simpler, not in gameplay, but in number of mechanisms. The reason I like Dune more is that it is a refined and concentrated version of TI. It's all the good parts of TI, without all the fluff. I like the fact the game can be over in round 2. Thats called respect for the player. Just like Chess can have checkmate in only a few moves. Variable game length is a bonus.
I don’t disagree strongly, but I came to a different conclusion. I played my first game of Dune about 4 years ago and it was one of the best gaming experience ever. First, yes you need 5-6 players. Anything less will be unbalanced. Second, this is less about area control a la Root. This is a game that thrives on negotiation and information sharing, alliances, a la Diplomacy. As opposed to an in person 2-6 hour game, I actually think the best experience is a PBEM game spread over many days or weeks where each player can think about the turn, spend time negotiating with multiple parties each turn, backstabbing, etc.
I enjoyed this review, even though I disagree with your assessment of the game! The cons you point out are all valid to a greater or lesser extent. But there is a definite interlocking of mechanics that might not be apparent upon first couple of play-throughs. In our gaming group the Harkonnen rarely win, because everyone knows that their early game strategy will be very aggressive. As the game goes on the Harko's ability becomes weaker as more traitors are revealed, which often forces them to temper their early game pushes. The strategies are faithful to the book, and may even make you play a certain "way", but I don't think that I've ever seen a faction win in the way I expected. The situation remains precarious for everyone all game. Yes, you can definitely all but lose the game early on, but it's the risk/reward nature of the game that I enjoy. And then you can house rule what you don't like. There's plenty of rules variation online which are very well set out and worded to tournament level quality. So, again, I disagree with the review, even if I think it was really good because, objectively, you're absolutely right!
I love the way information is a nearly tangible resource. The Atreades (spelling?) Ability converts to actual cash more often than not. And how "would you like me to tell you which of your leaders are safe" is so valuable. The karama abilities absolutely should be on the cards or references. The main problem is that this is a game that over the last 40 years, a lot of major house rules have been adopted and they tried to accommodate those in the rules without changing the actual components. Examples: Karama abilities Non-advanced game Not paying spice to buff units Etc....
Regarding traitors; I've been playing Dune since 1982 or so. I've seen people play a really "long con" by having a relatively minor battle with another player and *not* immediately using a traitor, thus making that player think the leader is safe. Then, when it's used in a really important battle, the traitor is activated. It's also important to realize that if you draw one of your own leaders when setting up the game, you are assured that no other player has that leader as a traitor.
While the potential for a long con is there, our point was that traitors are too swingy for what the game is since you don't fight that often, and we did mention how yes, you can track which leaders you saw and information trade with other players, but even then the whole table only sees 80% of all leaders in game. -Daniel
@@Shelfside I understood your point; I was just offering a relevant (and hopefully amusing) anecdote. But if you want to do the math, in any given battle the odds are about 3% that you will play a leader who is a traitor belonging to the person you're fighting. (16.6% chance of drawing a given faction's traitor, and a 20% chance that's the leader they choose.) That's a very rough approximation, of course, and doesn't include the Harkonnen player getting up to 4 traitors, or the chance of you knowing you have a safe leader, but it will do as a rough approximation. Given the fact that you yourself say "you don't fight that often", does a 3% chance of having a traitor decide a battle really seem "too swingy"? Even if players fight a half-dozen battles per game (which would be a lot, on average), you'll only see a traitor come up in 1 game out of 5. The mere existence of the mechanic might bother younger gamers, but in reality it happens so rarely in a game that it actually comes across as "wow, cool; he lost to a traitor!" (unless you're the loser, of course...). Sort of like the Bene Gesserit correctly predicting the winner and winning turn. It almost never happens, but when it does, it's an occasion for celebration.
Dune plays fine with four players. Just use the Atreides, Harkonnens, Emperor, and Guild. They balance each other very well. If you have five players, just drop the Benne Gesserit.
20:20 couldn't disagree more. In no game ever did anyone ever have more spice than they needed other than the spacing guilds and the emperor and even they found many uses for them. If still you run out of things to do, you can always bribe others or pay for services for your ally. There's already more uses for spice than almost any other board game has for their in game currency
I would never play this game with casual players, i.e. most people. With my gaming group however, we all really enjoyed Dune, and we agreed it was better than GoT. Probably an 8/10 for me. I'd agree with you that there is no sense of progression, but the point to me is relying on your own wits to get by.
really well-made review. this is my friend group's go-to board game, and I can agree with a lot of the gripes you guys have with the game, but not necessarily the overall scoring. Dune is, more than anything, a game about information and using the information your faction has access to in order to push for victory. The alliance system is very important in this, as you can have battle-focused factions team up w/ economy factions to make strong allies together. I also kinda disagree that traitors are RNG, as they are a calculation you make before the game starts based on who you think will be a threat (ie. picking Harkonnen traitors). Also, having certain factions be strong early game vs later game is a good thing, as that variance of strategies can lead to interesting scenarios game to game. We've never had 2 games go exactly the same. And yeah, some games last 1 turn and some last all 10, and that's ok. Definitely try out some of the expansions if you haven's yet! They add new factions w/ new abilities, new win conditions, and additional game mechanics that do a good job solving a lot of the cons mentioned in your review.
You guys are really good at articulating what is bad about games as well as good, and have very perceptive comments on the games tested. Also I like how you also take into account things like "feeling the theme of the game" and new player experience. Awesome channel
Would not really classify this as a war game really. It is more about the politics and social elements between players, with the war game elements just being a catalyst for it. If you go in expecting a refined war game, you would likely be dissapointed. The unforgiving nature of the mechanics also drive up the tension and relevance of the social elements.
Have played the original game for many years at the very same WBC convention you found the tournament rules, and thus love the new version, but very fair points about how it would compare to those who have become accustomed to the structure of modern boardgames. Conclusion is also spot on, thanks for a great review!
Love your videos guys but I disagree with almost everything you say here haha. This game has been a massive hit with everybody I've introduced it to from grizzled boardgame veterans to complete novices. Maybe try playing with another group?
In the handful of times we've played they were all with different people from our veteran regulars so every session was mostly different people, and even with having everyone double check rules the game is still dysfunctional without the tournament house rules. -Daniel
Just ordered this after seeing it on sale for about $30. Not sure when ill get to play but i find it hard to believe its harder to explain to new players than twilight imperium.
You guys are really good at reviewing and content creating. This will sound wierd but you both have smooth deep voices made for presentations, pod cast, etc. Your reviews are both humorous and intelligent. Just really impressed and glad you are making content for my favorite hobby. 🙂👍🖖
Awesome review! Thanks. I really want this game but as you mentioned, not sure how often I’ll be able to get this to the table. I think I’ll be playing Gloomhaven and Frosthaven for the remainder of my life. Lol.
well, you got a bajillion hours worth of content there :) There's actually a new 4p version of Dune coming out from the same publisher that streamlines a lot of things! So maybe you want to keep an eye out on that -Ashton
Most players disagree with you about your negative comments on the Quick-Start guide. They said it was a good way to learn the game basics without reading the whole rulebook. Sorry you disagree, give it another look.
Hey thanks for the feedback! It's been a while, but we both remember it being quite tricky to follow. Will have to look at it again sometime in the future -Ashton
@@Shelfside Also, (5 months later) I can send you a copy of Cosmic Encounter 42nd Anniversary Edition if you'd like to review. I saw another fan request a review of it.
Once a player understands the game and knows how to negotiate then there is little actual luck in the game. Players can ask other players for information on a safe leader in exchange for spice to avoid an assassination, players can bribe atreides to know what a card up for auction is, bribe to see the spice blow deck or the storm deck. Players can bribe each other to sweaten an alliance deal or use truthtrance to prevent a player from lying. Game is all about information and how to obtain it.
Great review as always. I also gave this game a miss. However, would love to see your thoughts on what you think of the new streamlined version of 'dune: a game of conquest and diplomacy'. Apparently this version is quicker and much more accessible.
Thanks man! Funny thing, we started talking about this OG Dune a lot recently after pre-ordering the new dune. No idea when it'll come yet, but super excited, especially since its more accessible. Really want to see how they managed diplomacy, seeing how its only 4p. -Ashton
@@Shelfside so I've heard the diplomacy aspect is pretty much gone and only the conquest remains. But, I hear that you can complete a game in 45 mins to 1 hour, and that it's a great 2 player game. So....sounds pretty different to the original dune.
10:00 actually that is a game mechanics because you can see the height of the stacks but you do not know the number of Sardaukar or Fedaykeen. Which adds to the uncertainty of the battle commitments. I thought about printing 3D warriors but that defeats this important aspect of the game. You are right about the crowded spaces but a Dune play mat fixes that problem. You make some very valid points and I realized that in spite of loving the universe I also dread a long game of Dune ...
It's been a hot minute since we played this game! I do too dread a long game of dune, it just felt way longer than it really should have been. But the books are awesome, now that the movie is coming out, I've been thinking to re-read hehe -Ashton
A very nice review. Watched it both before and after buying the game. Almost everything you mentioned is true. But many complaints were due to components design, not game mechanics. Although the mechanics is also not always clear enough and you have to do additional research during or after almost each session. For some participants of the game after an hour or so it becomes a bit tedious... But the game is very unique and thematically definitely more appealing than Root. To enjoy Dune you need 5-6 people, good knowledge of rules and faction tactics. So if components of Dune are upgraded and tweaked a bit to make them sturdier and more clear (bigger map and better units), than it would be unrivaled in its niche.
For what it's worth, Dune has vastly different group metas and playstyles, but if you look at tournament stats, Bene Gesserit, Harkonnen, and Emperor historically have the highest win-rates. Anecdotally our group only had 1 Harkonnen victory where they allied with Atreides, but in other games they were always a consistent threat that had to be policed more than other factions early on because of their card advantage in both treachery and traitors. -Daniel
Shelfside I understand, but looking into tournament stats isn’t that useful for most groups (unless they play the same game every week multiple times), which I would wager on, is the minority of people who own and/or play said game. :)
Fair enough, I suppose we're a bit of the exception because we will churn out sessions after sessions in a pretty short amount of time to really make sure we know what's up when we make these reviews lol -Daniel
There's a difference between complexity and vagueness, though. Gale Force have even put out an expansion with an updated FAQ that contradicts their own publicly available FAQ.
About the pronunciation: Relax. Literally everyone gets it wrong. The word is from Hebrew (meaning "jumping the way") and it doesn't sound like it at all cuz of letters that don't exist in English. To me it's cringe to hear people talk about dune cuz of it.
I agree with the video that Dune was great when it came out but now, we have much better game. My criticism are very different of the game thou and unlike what was said, they game is very thematic as each factions really have powers connected to its lore.
yeah, when he made that comment about sitting on a bunch of spice I nearly fell out of my chair. What?! Who every has extra spice?! You're bartering information and brokering deals with that stuff. You're reviving your leaders and driving up bids. The only time I've ever had a lot of spice was during one game playing as the Fremen and I made it my goal to gobble up as much of the spice blow as possible in order to tank the economy. I used that to work my way into a Fremen-Guild win in one of the best games I've ever played.
Yup. You may get to know about who has which card, where the storm would next hit (if there is some spice to harvest), what traitor is safe to use, heck, Emperor can buy and deploy troops for his ally. Even if you find that you get too much spice that you can't spend, i'd suggest playing with advanced combat.
Good review however all the clowning around was so cringe I didnt get to the end... I see what you guys are going for with the humour, but I really rather watch dry 15 minute Dice Tower review than a 30 minute people making faces at the camera while I try to follow what the reviewer is saying (which btw was quite good and insightful)
24:00 I strongly disagree. I had no idea that Dune even existed when I first played the board game, and I loved it. Read the books after, and have been a fan ever since. I would never have read Dune if not for the boardgame.
Agreed; I did exactly the same thing. Friends introduced me to the game, and then I started reading the books, and have been a huge fan since then.
I love your reviews, but I disagree with your assessment of this game. To be fair I purchased this new edition of the game having never played the original before, purely for the love of the books/universe. It rested on my shelf unplayed it until some friends, that also had a copy and had played an introductory 2 player game, forced me to get it to the table.
After an agile 30 minutes explanation, the preconceptions that I had, based on other reviews, on rule fiddliness and outdated design went completely out of the window.
Sure, certain elements in the game mechanics might evoke a bygone era in boardgames, but I think they contribute to make the game stand out, and give out a rich thematic flavour that can appeal as much to fans of the lore as to people that haven't the slightest idea what Dune is about. We certainly overlooked a few rules during our first play (and I agree the QS guide could have been better), but overall we had a happy wonderful time playing together, clocking at about 2.30hrs (at 4 players) and we are all looking forward to our next game night to replay this. I think this game is a gem, definitely not for everybody, but one my friends and I very much look forward to explore again and again.
This is easily one if the best games ever made. Shame you all didn't get it.
Great review, and while all the points you made are valid, I couldn't disagree more with the final score. For me, the intricacies and unpredictability of the interacting mechanics make Dune exciting in a way that I rarely find in other games. I'm quite a solid board gamer, much to the chagrin of my gaming circle, and I am rarely surprised, regardless of whether I am wining or losing. Even in games with random or hidden information elements, I general have a fairly comprehensive estimation of the probabilities of various events. This makes many games rather tedious.
Dune, however, has random elements interacting in sufficiently numerous and unexpected ways that it is almost impossible to predict all possible outcomes of an action, and there are moments in every game which surprise and delight me. The mechanics allow one to make intricate and layered plans, which you are either elated to see succeed or amused when they fail in a totally unexpected way. The highly irregular game length is an unavoidable outcome of this unpredictability. I agree that the rules should be better written and they could have improved the board scaling and unit tokens, but the Dune is a real gem which, for me, provides a wholly unique gaming experience.
Couldn't agree more with your analysis!
Big 4X gamer here. We went from Risk>Axis & Allies>Eagle games Civilization>Attack>Eclipse>Civ New dawn>TI4>Dune (2019). Of all these games, the only one I want to play again is Dune and TI4. Stripping away the theme, TI4 is like the sequel to Dune. Dune is this intimate wargame with faction powers and hidden information in cards. Mechanically, TI4 IS Dune plus Command tokens, Agenda phase, randomized victory conditions, Strategy Cards, and tech tree. It's Dune with way more stuff. But they really have the same flavor. Dune is just simpler, not in gameplay, but in number of mechanisms. The reason I like Dune more is that it is a refined and concentrated version of TI. It's all the good parts of TI, without all the fluff. I like the fact the game can be over in round 2. Thats called respect for the player. Just like Chess can have checkmate in only a few moves. Variable game length is a bonus.
Strongly recommend adding Cyclades and Kemet into that chain.
I don’t disagree strongly, but I came to a different conclusion. I played my first game of Dune about 4 years ago and it was one of the best gaming experience ever. First, yes you need 5-6 players. Anything less will be unbalanced. Second, this is less about area control a la Root. This is a game that thrives on negotiation and information sharing, alliances, a la Diplomacy. As opposed to an in person 2-6 hour game, I actually think the best experience is a PBEM game spread over many days or weeks where each player can think about the turn, spend time negotiating with multiple parties each turn, backstabbing, etc.
I enjoyed this review, even though I disagree with your assessment of the game!
The cons you point out are all valid to a greater or lesser extent. But there is a definite interlocking of mechanics that might not be apparent upon first couple of play-throughs. In our gaming group the Harkonnen rarely win, because everyone knows that their early game strategy will be very aggressive. As the game goes on the Harko's ability becomes weaker as more traitors are revealed, which often forces them to temper their early game pushes.
The strategies are faithful to the book, and may even make you play a certain "way", but I don't think that I've ever seen a faction win in the way I expected.
The situation remains precarious for everyone all game. Yes, you can definitely all but lose the game early on, but it's the risk/reward nature of the game that I enjoy.
And then you can house rule what you don't like. There's plenty of rules variation online which are very well set out and worded to tournament level quality.
So, again, I disagree with the review, even if I think it was really good because, objectively, you're absolutely right!
I love the way information is a nearly tangible resource. The Atreades (spelling?) Ability converts to actual cash more often than not. And how "would you like me to tell you which of your leaders are safe" is so valuable.
The karama abilities absolutely should be on the cards or references.
The main problem is that this is a game that over the last 40 years, a lot of major house rules have been adopted and they tried to accommodate those in the rules without changing the actual components.
Examples:
Karama abilities
Non-advanced game
Not paying spice to buff units
Etc....
Regarding traitors; I've been playing Dune since 1982 or so. I've seen people play a really "long con" by having a relatively minor battle with another player and *not* immediately using a traitor, thus making that player think the leader is safe. Then, when it's used in a really important battle, the traitor is activated. It's also important to realize that if you draw one of your own leaders when setting up the game, you are assured that no other player has that leader as a traitor.
While the potential for a long con is there, our point was that traitors are too swingy for what the game is since you don't fight that often, and we did mention how yes, you can track which leaders you saw and information trade with other players, but even then the whole table only sees 80% of all leaders in game.
-Daniel
@@Shelfside I understood your point; I was just offering a relevant (and hopefully amusing) anecdote.
But if you want to do the math, in any given battle the odds are about 3% that you will play a leader who is a traitor belonging to the person you're fighting. (16.6% chance of drawing a given faction's traitor, and a 20% chance that's the leader they choose.) That's a very rough approximation, of course, and doesn't include the Harkonnen player getting up to 4 traitors, or the chance of you knowing you have a safe leader, but it will do as a rough approximation.
Given the fact that you yourself say "you don't fight that often", does a 3% chance of having a traitor decide a battle really seem "too swingy"? Even if players fight a half-dozen battles per game (which would be a lot, on average), you'll only see a traitor come up in 1 game out of 5.
The mere existence of the mechanic might bother younger gamers, but in reality it happens so rarely in a game that it actually comes across as "wow, cool; he lost to a traitor!" (unless you're the loser, of course...).
Sort of like the Bene Gesserit correctly predicting the winner and winning turn. It almost never happens, but when it does, it's an occasion for celebration.
Dune plays fine with four players. Just use the Atreides, Harkonnens, Emperor, and Guild. They balance each other very well. If you have five players, just drop the Benne Gesserit.
The book says it should be the Fremen, not the Guild thou.
@@Exozik That would work too.
20:20 couldn't disagree more. In no game ever did anyone ever have more spice than they needed other than the spacing guilds and the emperor and even they found many uses for them. If still you run out of things to do, you can always bribe others or pay for services for your ally. There's already more uses for spice than almost any other board game has for their in game currency
8:08 "YOU! Do NOT use SHIELD!"
Why would you not want them to trigger a catastrophic nuclear explosion though?
I would never play this game with casual players, i.e. most people. With my gaming group however, we all really enjoyed Dune, and we agreed it was better than GoT. Probably an 8/10 for me. I'd agree with you that there is no sense of progression, but the point to me is relying on your own wits to get by.
really well-made review. this is my friend group's go-to board game, and I can agree with a lot of the gripes you guys have with the game, but not necessarily the overall scoring. Dune is, more than anything, a game about information and using the information your faction has access to in order to push for victory. The alliance system is very important in this, as you can have battle-focused factions team up w/ economy factions to make strong allies together. I also kinda disagree that traitors are RNG, as they are a calculation you make before the game starts based on who you think will be a threat (ie. picking Harkonnen traitors). Also, having certain factions be strong early game vs later game is a good thing, as that variance of strategies can lead to interesting scenarios game to game. We've never had 2 games go exactly the same. And yeah, some games last 1 turn and some last all 10, and that's ok.
Definitely try out some of the expansions if you haven's yet! They add new factions w/ new abilities, new win conditions, and additional game mechanics that do a good job solving a lot of the cons mentioned in your review.
You guys are really good at articulating what is bad about games as well as good, and have very perceptive comments on the games tested. Also I like how you also take into account things like "feeling the theme of the game" and new player experience. Awesome channel
cheers man! Lots more reviews on the way :D -Ashton
Definitely needs a new edition by this point.
Just found you guys from TH-cam Recommended. I like the videos. I hope you guys keep making them! Best of luck.
Would not really classify this as a war game really. It is more about the politics and social elements between players, with the war game elements just being a catalyst for it. If you go in expecting a refined war game, you would likely be dissapointed. The unforgiving nature of the mechanics also drive up the tension and relevance of the social elements.
Have played the original game for many years at the very same WBC convention you found the tournament rules, and thus love the new version, but very fair points about how it would compare to those who have become accustomed to the structure of modern boardgames. Conclusion is also spot on, thanks for a great review!
Thanks! It's a hard recommend in the lens of all of the other games coming out, but definitely see why people love it! Cheers -Ashton
Love your videos guys but I disagree with almost everything you say here haha. This game has been a massive hit with everybody I've introduced it to from grizzled boardgame veterans to complete novices. Maybe try playing with another group?
In the handful of times we've played they were all with different people from our veteran regulars so every session was mostly different people, and even with having everyone double check rules the game is still dysfunctional without the tournament house rules.
-Daniel
Just ordered this after seeing it on sale for about $30. Not sure when ill get to play but i find it hard to believe its harder to explain to new players than twilight imperium.
You guys are really good at reviewing and content creating. This will sound wierd but you both have smooth deep voices made for presentations, pod cast, etc. Your reviews are both humorous and intelligent. Just really impressed and glad you are making content for my favorite hobby. 🙂👍🖖
Puppet Rage Gaming if you love them so much why dont you marry them
Awesome review! Thanks. I really want this game but as you mentioned, not sure how often I’ll be able to get this to the table. I think I’ll be playing Gloomhaven and Frosthaven for the remainder of my life. Lol.
well, you got a bajillion hours worth of content there :)
There's actually a new 4p version of Dune coming out from the same publisher that streamlines a lot of things! So maybe you want to keep an eye out on that -Ashton
@@Shelfside awesome. Will keep an eye out for it and research it. Thanks!
Most players disagree with you about your negative comments on the Quick-Start guide. They said it was a good way to learn the game basics without reading the whole rulebook. Sorry you disagree, give it another look.
Hey thanks for the feedback! It's been a while, but we both remember it being quite tricky to follow. Will have to look at it again sometime in the future -Ashton
@@Shelfside Also, (5 months later) I can send you a copy of Cosmic Encounter 42nd Anniversary Edition if you'd like to review. I saw another fan request a review of it.
@@CosmicEncounter sure, send us an email at Shelfside.gg@gmail.com
Good review! Funnily enough I agree with almost everything you guys say but to me it’s 8.5-9.
Cheers! Glad we could help give you some analysis, spice on!
Nearly bought this a few weeks back - probably gotta pick it up tbh 😍
Nice! Hopefully our review was able to help inform your decision!
I disagreed with this review so hard I watched the rest of your channel like five months ago and fell in love. Keep it up!
ahaha thanks man! See ya around :) -Ashton
Once a player understands the game and knows how to negotiate then there is little actual luck in the game. Players can ask other players for information on a safe leader in exchange for spice to avoid an assassination, players can bribe atreides to know what a card up for auction is, bribe to see the spice blow deck or the storm deck. Players can bribe each other to sweaten an alliance deal or use truthtrance to prevent a player from lying. Game is all about information and how to obtain it.
Too bad for the negative review....cuz I had just purchased it.
Dune is fantastic but with higher player counts
I feel like we personally designed Dune: Conquest and Diplomacy for you guys! Not every game can be for every gamer.
ahaha super awesome. cheers! -Ashton
Great review as always. I also gave this game a miss. However, would love to see your thoughts on what you think of the new streamlined version of 'dune: a game of conquest and diplomacy'. Apparently this version is quicker and much more accessible.
Thanks man! Funny thing, we started talking about this OG Dune a lot recently after pre-ordering the new dune. No idea when it'll come yet, but super excited, especially since its more accessible. Really want to see how they managed diplomacy, seeing how its only 4p. -Ashton
@@Shelfside so I've heard the diplomacy aspect is pretty much gone and only the conquest remains. But, I hear that you can complete a game in 45 mins to 1 hour, and that it's a great 2 player game. So....sounds pretty different to the original dune.
@@Emsworth377 two player... yea that sounds COMPLETELY different ahaha -Ashton
10:00 actually that is a game mechanics because you can see the height of the stacks but you do not know the number of Sardaukar or Fedaykeen. Which adds to the uncertainty of the battle commitments. I thought about printing 3D warriors but that defeats this important aspect of the game. You are right about the crowded spaces but a Dune play mat fixes that problem. You make some very valid points and I realized that in spite of loving the universe I also dread a long game of Dune ...
It's been a hot minute since we played this game! I do too dread a long game of dune, it just felt way longer than it really should have been. But the books are awesome, now that the movie is coming out, I've been thinking to re-read hehe -Ashton
Will you guys review Cosmic Encounter?
Not any time soon unfortunately. No one in our group has it.
@@Shelfside so it looks like a time to buy a new game 😉 (and one of the best!). Love the depth of your review, keep up the good work!
A very nice review. Watched it both before and after buying the game. Almost everything you mentioned is true. But many complaints were due to components design, not game mechanics. Although the mechanics is also not always clear enough and you have to do additional research during or after almost each session. For some participants of the game after an hour or so it becomes a bit tedious... But the game is very unique and thematically definitely more appealing than Root. To enjoy Dune you need 5-6 people, good knowledge of rules and faction tactics. So if components of Dune are upgraded and tweaked a bit to make them sturdier and more clear (bigger map and better units), than it would be unrivaled in its niche.
16:30 it’s funny, in our 5 games (so far) the Harkonnens were not even close to winning, like ever.
For what it's worth, Dune has vastly different group metas and playstyles, but if you look at tournament stats, Bene Gesserit, Harkonnen, and Emperor historically have the highest win-rates. Anecdotally our group only had 1 Harkonnen victory where they allied with Atreides, but in other games they were always a consistent threat that had to be policed more than other factions early on because of their card advantage in both treachery and traitors.
-Daniel
Shelfside I understand, but looking into tournament stats isn’t that useful for most groups (unless they play the same game every week multiple times), which I would wager on, is the minority of people who own and/or play said game. :)
Fair enough, I suppose we're a bit of the exception because we will churn out sessions after sessions in a pretty short amount of time to really make sure we know what's up when we make these reviews lol
-Daniel
Complexity of the rules is what makes the game great.
There's a difference between complexity and vagueness, though. Gale Force have even put out an expansion with an updated FAQ that contradicts their own publicly available FAQ.
About the pronunciation: Relax. Literally everyone gets it wrong. The word is from Hebrew (meaning "jumping the way") and it doesn't sound like it at all cuz of letters that don't exist in English.
To me it's cringe to hear people talk about dune cuz of it.
I agree with the video that Dune was great when it came out but now, we have much better game. My criticism are very different of the game thou and unlike what was said, they game is very thematic as each factions really have powers connected to its lore.
This is a game I want to play, but it feels like a game you need a good group for. And I don’t think I have the right group for it.
You spend the spice on information trading
yeah, when he made that comment about sitting on a bunch of spice I nearly fell out of my chair. What?! Who every has extra spice?! You're bartering information and brokering deals with that stuff. You're reviving your leaders and driving up bids. The only time I've ever had a lot of spice was during one game playing as the Fremen and I made it my goal to gobble up as much of the spice blow as possible in order to tank the economy. I used that to work my way into a Fremen-Guild win in one of the best games I've ever played.
Yup. You may get to know about who has which card, where the storm would next hit (if there is some spice to harvest), what traitor is safe to use, heck, Emperor can buy and deploy troops for his ally. Even if you find that you get too much spice that you can't spend, i'd suggest playing with advanced combat.
wow... a lot of the cons was fixed by rex.
Good review however all the clowning around was so cringe I didnt get to the end... I see what you guys are going for with the humour, but I really rather watch dry 15 minute Dice Tower review than a 30 minute people making faces at the camera while I try to follow what the reviewer is saying (which btw was quite good and insightful)
Let's agree to disagree, as I actually find these boys weird faces and humour very funny and helpful for comunicating their impressions.
I’m planning to do a similar video in chinese soon. Haha