The brand-new Intercity trains that Britain abandoned…
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2023
- The UK railways have been really busy recently, with lots of overcrowding and cancellations. But this is the story of the five year old carriages that one of the operators will shortly be abandoning! What's the reason for this madness? 🙄
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Journey Details:
Origin: York
Destination: Scarborough
Company: TransPennine Express (TPE)
Train: UK Class 68 + Mk5 Coaches
Accommodation: Standard Class Seat (2nd)
Distance: 42 miles / 68 kilometres
Price: £6.05 (€6.80 / $8.00)
Time: 51 minutes, arrived 3 minutes early
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Where would you like to see the Class 68 and Mk5 coaches in service next? Leave a reply! 😁
Scotland 👍
Scotrail should take some to run alongside the HSTs 158s and 170s on the Highland mainline between Glasgow Queen St/Edinburgh and Aberdeen/Inverness
Should be used by avanti west coast to get more services, theya re very nice trains.
Cross Country, Nottingham Cardiff Service.
@@Turlough-fd6yoexploreThat’s part of the North East Transport Authority’s plan - to bring heavy rail to Newcastle airport.. where will the funding come from??
That these trains will be abandoned after only 4 years of use because the government doesn't want to fund maintenance is the most British Government thing I've ever heard. Such a shame.
Very typical of this country, yep... 🙄
At least they could offer them to someone to by them. There is many countries were any functional cars (which have at least few years in them) are needed.
Honestly its not the government people have complained about the noise of the locomotives and will go back to the original owner DRS where they will be used on freight
Part of the problem is how small the fleet is, with only a dozen or so sets. This makes continued training and maintenance requirements much less efficient than with larger fleets. Basically the operator is abandoning these because they have become more trouble than they're worth.
Well they are looking for the cheapest options, so it was expected.
The negligence of infrastructure in northern cities, especially compared to London, is absolutely criminal.
Really? The north had the Sprinters while the South East still had old DMUs. Manchester has trams, Central London doesn’t.
Really? The north had the Sprinters while the South East still had old DMUs. Manchester has trams, Central London doesn’t.
Not just the north - anywhere other than London is shocking.
@@EM-yk1dwwhat's a tram?
@@unofficialleeds9084 Lol indeed but I hear Leeds tram is back…but seeing is believing 😁
A loco-hauled train that would be worth doing is the TfW Premier service all the way from Cardiff to Holyhead. I know it's expensive but going first class with the full dining car service is quite an experience.
Some other interesting things to point out on the journey - the line passes the old railway station for Castle Howard (a private railway station which skirts the bottom of the estate, I believe - now a private residence, but the station signage is still there), which comes just after passing the ruins of Kirkham Abbey. Also, just behind the signal box at Scarborough is a bricked-up archway, which is the branching off point for the Victorian-era Scarborough-Whitby branch line. The terrain proved to be too much for Victorian engineering however and it suffered constant problems from slippy track, expensive tunnelling and steep gradients. It was never a success for various reasons and it was closed in the Beeching cuts. It's now a bridleway called The Cinder Track.
It’s a real shame when a train can look and feel so nice but with uncomfy seats. Personally I’ve travelled on these trains and I find the seats fine for journeys of up to 1 1/2 hours but no more
The issue I have with them is the ride quality, when I traveled on the Nova 3s last in October, I traveled between York and Leeds and got completely battered about.
@@heidirabenau511 sorry to hear that. I’ve not travelled on the nova 3 set only the 1 and 2 sets. The seats are basically the same. I find the ride quality on those sets to be fine. Ironically I personally find the infamous ironing board style seats on a lot of regional train to be more comfy than the seats found on the azuma or nova trains. Something about the way they are shaped I think. I ride the class 385s between Glasgow and Edinburgh a lot and they have the ironing board seats. I was even on a scotrail class 156 for 5 hours once up the west highland line and the ironing board seats didn’t ruin the breathtaking scenery for me
I also prefer the ironing boards to the terrible seats on long-distance trains, which does not make sense.
@@SuperalbsTravels the ScotRail class 158 and 170s have much better seats than most modern high speed trains and they are mainly used on regional routes although they are sometimes used on longer routes between Glasgow and Aberdeen/Inverness or between Edinburgh and Aberdeen/Inverness when the ScotRail Intercity 125s are not available
Same with voyagers when they first came out
Meanwhile, here in Spain casually doing 140km/h in a 48 year old train (Renfe class 470). We are having a serious train shortage problem here and there are also serious overcrowding problems, but hopefully with the arrival of new EMU sets in (please) about 2 years, these problems will be reduced.🙃
Cheers from Valencia!
PD: If you want to experience a rather painful trip (depending on the train you get) I suggest the Xàtiva - Alcoi route. It has a very enjoyable scenario however and finally it will be refurbished next year.
True. It's unbelieveable that the nearly 50 year-old Series 470 trainsets are still the backbone of regional services in electrified lines. It truly speaks about how this country has nearly abandoned conventional rail, as the development of the High Speed network has taken all the investment since the 1990s.
The newer Series 449 were meant to replace them 15 years ago but they decided to keep both by refurbishing the 470 and prolonging their lifespan instead.
Neighbouring country, here in Portugal, our high speed trains can reach 220 km/h even tough they are extremely old! And 220 is a very petite number in comparison to other European trains!
@@pojkkaadaboi-tp7dv the Alfa Pendular are less than 25 years old, that's not extremely old for a train.
For comparison the Series 100 high speed trains in Spain currently reach 300km/h and are over 30 years old
Bro, in Poland we've got over 60 years old EN57 from PRL, which I think is the oldest commercially running passenger train in the world. Of course many of them were modernised and repainted multiple times, but mostly the construction remained the same... We call it kibel, which is a toilet, because of the common smell inside :)
I mean tbf even if their old, if they're well maintained and running flawlessly, I would refrain from retiring those trains in a hurry
As a former railway employee of 44 years service on the S&T dept of British Rail/Network Rail, painting the front of a train in black and blue is one of the most backward steps in safety I have seen...especially in this current health and safety era!
@AkaWilf. As a fellow railwayman. I agree. But the HMRI sanctioned this because a) they thought high intensity headlights were better, b) no one paints the fronts of steam locos yellow (ignoring the clouds of smoke visible for miles) and c) under Project RIMINI track work was to be done largely under a T2 Protection or T3 Possession (Green Zone - although maintenance staff largely never adopted this !). I worked for BR, Railtrack and Network Rail, retiring as the National Operations Standards Manager. Formerly Regional Workforce Safety Manager (Anglia).
@@vicsams4431 yes, green zone was becoming more and more the preferred way of working, and probably by now pretty much the only way.
Generally the high intensity lights are very good, but in times of very warm weather the heat haze could actually obscure the lights with them being a lowish level point source of light, whereas the yellow fronts became even more visible.
Mind you, it’s all over for me now... Miss the place, but not the work!
The more fundamental problem with the British railways is that it's just too damn expensive! £6 is a great price for that journey, but £22 is silly. For comparison, my car would cost about £7 in fuel to do that distance, so as someone who's too old to get a railcard the train is already quite uncompetitive before we delve into things like seat comfort. If you're taking a family along, you'd have to *really* like trains to choose that over the car. A lot of the country's traffic congestion could be solved if train tickets were reasonably priced.
A trip from Edinburgh to Nottingham is about as long by train as by car, and £200 per person vs £70/80 for the whole car including wearm and the government makes money out of the trip, instead of putting money for the train trip. This is plain terrible management.
It's a good point and I agree, but you do also have to remember the cost of the car trip doesn't include a large percentage of the total cost of that trip because you've already paid a big percentage of that cost as a lump sum (e.g.the cost of buying the car, buying insurance, cost of yearly VED, cost of wear and tear, MOT costs, additional council tax to maintain local roads, cost of depreciation etc. plus other cost such as parking at the destination). When you buy a train ticket, all costs have to be covered within that ticket price in a way that doesn't happen for a car trip.
Last minute UK train tickets should definitely be cheaper but you could argue they're probably not quite as far off as we think.
@ricequackers. Before rail privatisation, Intercity was the only mainline railway in the world to operate at a profit with zero subsidy from the taxpayer. Network South East had balanced the books by 1993, and had it continued, would have also covered its operating costs by ticket sales alone. Only Regional Railways had a subsidy under the Public Service Obligation Grant (the need for taxpayer intervention to prevent Beeching style closures on social economic and environmental grounds). In Britain, the mainly Tory governments have treated the railways as a profit making concern, totally overlooking the far higher funding given totally freely to roads, without the need for a profit. Very few roads have tolls, apart from a few large bridges. As a result, we have the highest fares in Europe. Bus and HGV operators have a bias unlevel playing field. So our roads are congested and potholled. The only way to break that cycle is to find railways better. But people keep voting for tax cuts instead.
@@benrgrogan That's only true if you're making the choice between having a car or not having one. If you already have one, then the cost choice is between the cost of a train ticket vs the marginal cost of driving the car. In that case, purchase price and insurance aren't part of the calculation. Even depreciation probably isn't a big factor, since the car will depreciate even if you aren't putting mileage on it. It really just comes down to the cost of fuel and the extra wear and tear. I don't live in the UK, but I think that most people there aren't making an all or nothing choice between going everywhere by car or everywhere by transit. For most people, I think it will be the choice of how much they want to use their car, not whether or not they have one.
I live 30 miles from London, £32 is the cheapest return and it's the same price for a one way. Trains round me used to be packed in the rush hour but now I can get on a mostly empty rush hour express in the morning. I studied economics and accounting and the numbers don't add up, the tax payer is subsidising profits while train companies price the market into their cars, I can only assume that with their profits guaranteed from our taxes the train companies can make more by saving on maintenance than filling trains.
This is Great Britain's railway system. What the hell had people been expecting?? I always thought Bransons 'Voyagers' were the pits but I reckon we ain't seen nuffink yet. At least those motorised goods vans with summat to park our backsides on gave us a ride to remember, especially whilst banging round Grimsby's Fish Dock curves at take off velocity. Glorious fun and never forget, we are only passengers and it's the crews who I feel sorry for and nothing is likely to change any time soon!
7:15 The nova trains where retired becuase of the difference in train between the 68/MK5a's and the rest of the EMU/DMU's not becuase they found the cracks. Those where repaired
That is an interesting theory:
The hight differences between the class 68/MK5 were a big issue (could they have made the wheel a different size to fix this - this was never looked at and class 68 have even worse issues).
This also led to the MK5 cracking because of poor design as well - they did try and repair it twice but the issue with the cracking of the MK5 was it was happening at any time and any location ie it was not predictable or controllable.
Also due to this and other metrics which the class 68 and mk5 all failed on - in the end they were all rejected from service before officially being handed over
This information is coming from the person who was in charge of commissioning the class 68 and Mk5 into service
It's the cracks and the wider issue that the cracks are part of; the general poor quality of the rolling stock. the DTSO cab is identical to the 397s
Another issue which caused a lot of complaints was if the 68 was at the Scarborough station end then the noise from the loco when standing was amplified in the train shed at Scarborough and was defining. It took them two years to sort out the servicing facilities with a 66 derailing in the process! The coaches were very rough riding and the tables vibrated and made computer work difficult so more complaints. Bad design and construction.
Unfortunately i in common with others from the Scarborough area have been stuck with the atrocious service offered by TPE. These problems go back to May 2018. The timetable changes introduced at that time contained obvious errors like east and west bound services meeting at the single Malton platform with in 3 minutes of one another. The result was massive delays and cancellations with 3 hour gaps in service at times. TPE also had 3 different types of trains on the north route, and this proved difficult in terms of training. Post covid things continued as before with up to half the services cancelled some days, and huge gaps in the service at the outer ends of the routes. The planned timetable for December is certainly sparse but if its reliable then that will at least allow people to plan journeys. Local people have been saying for years that we need relibility over frequency. The mk5s are a good example of poor thinking by TPE in not foreseeing the problems posed by using 3 different types of train on their north route. TPE have also introduced multiple crew changes on their routes with crews shuttling back and forth during their shift, rather than allowing and training the crew of say Liverpool Newcastle services to work the full length. If a crew member is unavaible at short notice this then impacts multiple services, rather than just taking one service out it affects every service that crew was due to work. There have also been noise issues with the class 68 locos. In short a total mismanaged shambles. Scarborough residents have been suffering these problems for 5 nearly years when TPE were stripped of their franchise. As a unit the Mk5s gave a welcome increase in capacity and comfort, but operationally have proved to be a problem. I for one have reached the point with TPE where the fact that something turns up is more important that the type of unit. To put this in perspective i use TPE maybe 1 per week or so for business trips to the Manchester area, and have been for 15+ years.
Sorry to hear. I guess I was fortunate to have a great service on both cases I used Transpennine to/from Scarborough, on time, comfortable quick journey on a 185 both times.
Wouldn't the cheapest solution be to build a second platform and bridge to get to it at Malton? That would cost less than a train set to build and resolve the issue instantly. Still, Tories, logic and honesty are all things that never coexist I suppose.
Great video. Your style has certainly improved in the last 2-3 years and you've grown the channel really well (even if I don't watch every video). I can confirm first class is brilliant, even if there is no catering, which let's it down.
A fun coincidence that we uploaded a video on the same class of train and route 2 days apart 😅
You should review the carriages that didn't even make five minutes in service - the cancelled Nightstar carriages that would have run through the channel tunnel and ended up in Canada and operated by Via Rail who call them Renaissance cars. They're not even the same width as regular Canadian carriages because UK loading gauge is smaller!
That was because of cheap airlines and its quicker to fly some of the routes these trains were intended for
At least the Nightstar coaches got a second chance most of them went to Canada, transport for Wales should grab these train's up,
@richardbevan3168. Why inflict anyone to that. I have ridden Renaissance coaches from Montreal to Halifax. Probably the worst design I have ever encountered ! Not a patch on Manor and Chateau sleeping cars. Who but is Brits puts a wardrobe in the middle of the floor, so you have to climb on the bed to see out the wondow. The showers are rancid ! You shower WITH the toilet bowl. How hygenic. Space so small, you wash under one arm and hit one elbow, you wash under the other arm, and hit the other elbow. I know of telephone boxes that are larger. The ladder to the top bunk is so narrow, you have to reach the 5th step. Top bunk so narrow, your arm hangs over the side. One member of our group forgot to move nearer the wall before attempting to turn over, and fell out the top bunk, and gashed his legs as he plummeted to earth. Top bunk located under an air vent that blows icy air on you all night. It can only be described as medieval torture ! I have travelled over every railway in Canada (except Churchill) but including Carcross Yukon Territory, Schefferville, Moosonee, Prince Rupert, Calgary, Senneterre, Jonquiere, Sarnia, Windsor, Niagara, Vaudreuil, Candiac, St Jerome, Wakefield, Le Malbaie, Orangeville, etc. The line to Halifax is nice and the food on the train very good, but solely due to the coaches, I would say "never again". Best regards from London England.
@@vicsams4431Oh, we English love life to be hard.
It seems that the DfT doesn't care about overcrowding. Especially where wheelchair access is concerned
The editing on this video must have talen ages - the quality is fantastic, really comprehensive! Really enjoyed this one mate! 😁
Great video. I did the reverse trip to yours a couple of months ago in First Class. Like you say, they are great trains and replacing them with 185's is a backward move. One of the issues, and a regular cause of complaint, has been the noise of 68's from those living near to the Scarborough depot. Not sure what the future holds for the carriages, but the loco's are likely to be taken on by DRS (they already have a few ex TP surplus when the Nova 3 operation ceased on the South Transpennine route earlier this year). Chiltern trains also use 68's but with Mk.3's. The Nova 3 operation is due to end when the new timetable takes effect in just under two weeks. Will be sorry to see them go as they look great both externally and internally. There's a bizarre logic that seems to exist in UK railways, that to improve reliability means running fewer and shorter capacity trains. Makes no sense at all. At least we both had the opportunity to travel in a Nova 3 whilst we could.
Your Trip reports are great. The only advice which I can give is to use more authentic sound from your journeys and lower the music. For example - Train, Nature, Urban noises, announcements. Those sounds give better experience for audience.
The TPE livery on the Class 68's is lovely.
The 185s are most likely to be semi permanently coupled to each other, with the exception of the extra 1 that will probably run really short routes after the withdrawal of the Nova 3 sets.
Malton Station building may Grade 2 listed but that didn’t stop the overall NE designed overall roof being removed 15 or so years ago ( look at Beverley or Filey Station.) it did at one point have a 2nd Platform outside the overall roof.accessed I believe by a rolling gangway.
"Cracks were discovered" - something that's also affected CAF's Urbos 3 trams on the West Midlands Metro (plus three other locations around the world), but they were repaired - I think the relevant authorities persuaded CAF to stump up the cost.
@mittfh Cracks are nowt unique. Hitachi 800s are no better. Most new trains have teething problems. Cracks can be fixed. Maintenance schedules strengthened, etc.
here in Belgium it would be unthinkable to get rid of brand new trains o_O
I’ve read the Class 68s have had complaints about noise when they are stabled at Scarborough.
The comment about they being a great train apart from the seats, I once went to a technical lecture by a chap who designed seats for BR. He said the main passenger interface between people and trains were their bums. He went onto say they did sit tests in new seat designs to see if they were comfy.
Those specifying the interior should be made to sit in sample seats for upto 8hrs before picking.
I was wondering why he was testing them with his hand rather than just sitting on them.
The point is that different people experience seats in different ways, so you need a very wide range of people to do "bum tests". The hard ironing board seats are tolerable for some people, particularly those who are relatively light. For people with joint or back problems, or of larger build, the extra pressure can make things uncomfortable very quickly. This wasn't picked up on the GWR trains in particular.
@@DigitalDiabloUK That's what BR did.
@DIEMLtdTV His bottom must have been made of concrete !
I have no sympathy for the nutters in Scarborough. You buy a house near a railway. What do you expect ? The railway is under no obligation to obtain consent from every resident every time it wants to change rolling stock. That would be totally unreasonable and unworkable.
Furthermore only anklebiters could say that. Scarborough had hourly Class 45 and Class 47 locomotives until 1988 and the early 1990s. All were shunt released at Scarborough.
Furthermore, Scarborough council funded the return to mainline steam of 4468 Mallard. That had sulphurous smoke and coal dust as well as noise.
Wouldn’t it be great if we could build our own trains again, considering this is the birthplace of the train.
If you go to Europe or Japan you will see how far behind we are, I can't see any way to catch up thanks to this Government.
Both Alstom and Siemens are building trains in the UK. Yes, they are not brittish train manufacturers but you need to spread development costs over many units produced and sold, but they are local.
Don’t be silly, we find employment for every other country except the UK citizens. We only invented trains not to make meaningful use. Find me a privatised industry which serves its customers
@stervi2. I agree. I think it was Sir John Major's government that did railway privatisation and sold off BREL.
@@vicsams4431Tough, as I recall, the process was set off some time before John Major. Thatcher was certainly very much the guilty one. And she caused the termination of the APT-E.
As a weekly traveller from Scarborough to York it is a great shame seeing these get rid off. Especially with no replacement, although testing of the Class 802 has happened twice this year for this route it still wont cover low capacity of the 185 knowing that 802s will rarely come here due to their already existing routes.
Rubbish They are covered partially by retaining all 185's and there should be spare capacity on the 802's given the hourly service to Edinburgh is abandoned, as is the Newcastle-Manchester Airport service for the time being. They need to get their finger out with crew training of 802's onto other routes.
Nice! York station is great I went there on Saturday for a railtour
Amtrak’s passenger cars have lasted 50 years. These haven’t even lasted 5 years.
And Amtrak probably gets less funding for maintenance than these British TOCs do.
A locomotive hauled British passenger train is pretty unusual too. Usually they are multiple units.
Gutted to learn they are going to waste, I have used most Trans Pennine Trains on visits to and from Huddersfield to Leeds, York & Scarborough! The 3 car trains are nearly always overcrowded, this simply is a ridiculous situation that such new trains and carriages are being taken away when the lines are crying out for extra capacity!
This Government is so stupid in its response, it has no plans, no understanding or care for the needs of Northern Commuters and lacks any vision to do what is needed to improve services!
Was a shock to find out them nova 3 are coming to and end of an era after 4 years, Did like the look of them.
It's such a shame.
@Scottishtrainspotter7209. Maybe the Class 68 won't win a beauty award, but they were great on the Fife Circle.
@@vicsams4431 definably liked them as a class 68 back in the days.
Great trip report
I’ve never been to York before, I didn’t realise the station was so pretty!
@KatMarBax. The line is full of superb historical stations of architectural merit. Britain is blessed with hundreds of grand Victorian stations.
First I would like to say superalbs I absolutely love watching your videos of your train journeys a cross the world you do a absolutely fantastic job on them. Well to me it does not make much sense to withdraw the class 68s and mk 5A coaches and just go back to using the older rolling stock this means that TPE pretty much have gone back to square one I keep up to date with what's going with the uk railways via my train magazines I did read in one of them it might be a possibility the 68s and mk5a would be with Chiltern trains I think that's just a small possibility anyways keep up with the hard work that you put in to your great railway journeys 😎😎
Only an accountant could replace the Nova 3 with 185 units.
@robclipsham33. Too true !
To employ an aphorism used about another class, an accountant is someone knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Love your reports and your humor. Skimmed through the top comments to see if someone mentioned the quick "or more..." that appeared at the bottom of the screen at around 1:16 🤭 but didn't find any...
I use this line fairly often over many years and was very disappointed when these trains were replaced with the smaller, older version. The seats were fairly hard but the journey is fairly short and it never bothered me. This is a classic example of levelling up - it always fails The North 😞
"Levelling up" is a fiction.
Guess I won't be complaining about DB anymore after seeing this video. Trains being abandoned after just 4 years is not even awful, it's atrocious.
I generally like DB. Preferred when they had 232s and 234s in the east, and 103s in west ! Best regards from London England.
They should not have gotten rid of British Rail. I got a 2 week 1st Class BritRail Pass in June 1990 & traveled about 5,000 km. I only had to pay 30 £/night on sleeper trains. I've been to all 3 Perths & Peterboroughs in the world. They are still running trains built in 1955 here in Canada on 'The Canadian" which I have taken 51x since 1964. Cheers from Vancouver.
British rail was bloody awful take it from a regular commuter
Britrail passes are still available and as before are a great value. We always get one for First Class on our visits to Britain. We have bought the passes for variable lengths of time, from four days to two weeks.
Absolutely . Pure revisionism and rose tinted glasses in relation to the truly awful BR@@efstathiostavlaridis4727
@@efstathiostavlaridis4727Perhaps because the Govt was running the service down to prepare the public for privatisation: hoodwink the public into believing that anything else (= privaye companies) could not be half as bad. Oh, how we have all learnt! I don't recall having any beefs with BR.
When you name one of the new Traction units "Destroyer", one can only read between the lines.
Hi Superalbs, I was wondering if you could do a review on a Class 755 one day (I recommend the Gainsborough Line, since the views off the bridge are nice, you pass through a Railway Museum, and Sudbury is a nice market town with quite a bit of history). The seats are comfy and ergonomic (for ‘new’ train seats), the ride quality is great, the train has some cool and important features, and I think it would make for a great video! 😊
They abandoned the NOVA 3 mainly because of noise and reliability, which the latter contributed to the poor performance of First-owned TPE. Class 185 is arguably even more comfortable than NOVA 1 and 2 for medium distance services, except the lack of them makes it impossible to couple up all services to provide enough capacity.
The DFT would pay for the lease
@@EM-yk1dw That's the key reason they are ending the lease. DfT hates to fund the railway, especially those not related to London.
CAF are unfortunately known for cracked bogies and bad build quality. The Norwegian Flytoget airport express trains from CAF are now 5 years delayed. I'm guessing the British government knows not to throw good money after bad trying to fix something that would be crazy expensive and just call it sunk cost and scrap the entire fleet.
then why caf trains and trams are all over the world if they were so bad like you ve said?
@@aymanla471 They are cheap to buy. Not to maintain. And everything is bought from the lowest bidder in all government contracts unfortunately.
@sjokomelk. Norway, the best country in the world. I have travelled over every NSB line except Narvik.
Sadly this is not unique to CAF. I remember the NSB Di6 saga. 11 locos out of a fleet of 12, out of action, and then the 12th loco derailed having hit a landslide, and the loco cab parted from the loco body with the train driver still inside !
Cracks are quite normal for new trains. The entire Hitachi built 800s are the same. Most are a quick fix, so not insurmountable, and definitely cheaper than scrapping the fleet.
Best regards from London England.
I love it when they replace things with nothing; great video
Thanks! 😂
I used to enjoy traditional deeply upholstered seats in both open but also corridor and even enclosed compartments, no wifi of course and often very little light or heating, especially when that later was supposed to be steam generated, stll, fares were cheap and you could travel on Christmas Day! I have found modern seats not only uncomfortable themselves, but on such as Networkers impossibly optimistic, a 4Sub might have been comfortable with six abreast but five and a gangway with today's more ubiquitously dimensionally challenged would have tested Brunel..
I don't understand how carriages have regressed so much since the Mark 3
Especially the seats, which are hilariously bad.
@@SuperalbsTravels Yeah bizarre, i can't see the rationale for such poor padding.
The Mk3s were themselves controversial when they first appeared as the standard seats didn’t line up with the windows. Unfortunately nothing has changed in the interim.
@@Richard47484 They had a lovely sway to them though. And the seats were mega-comfy.
@@Richard47484 MK3 carriages are the best
The plan is for the Mk5 and the Class 68 to support the Class 67's on the Chiltern route, but only after the Mk5 coaches get a full overhaul. There are plans for Class 811 diesel only "Supernova" units, but we'll be stuck with the venerable 185's for a good 5 years(!).
@robertwilloughby8050. The Chiltern route has not had Class 67s for some years now. They operate with Class 68s also.
Diesel only?
@@MrBubba59 Well, maybe not, but the Scarborough to York bit isn't penciled in for electrification anytime soon, and if they extend it like it was with the North Wales coast line, that isn't up for electrification yet, either. It seems to be a waste just to have electric power just between York and Manchester. However, it's still all up in the air as to the plans.
The old carraige works is my workplace. Its still in use btw. Only does maintenence trains, ballast wagons, fabrications and all stuff for railhead treatment
Bring back mk1 and mk2 coaches. Comfortable with plenty of space and lasted for years. Sneeze at some of these modern concrete seated coaches and they fall apart.
Nice video. It does seem a terrible waste to abandon these trains and surely they can be improved and provide much needed capacity.
They can't be improved. They are fundamentally badly designed and built.
If so what a great waste of money. Shocking. @@JohnHughesChampigny
@JohnHughesChampigny Other commentators, apparently with insider information, on this video claim the cracks were fixed. One of you does not know what he is talking about.
Choose your words more carefully. I have made to claim to know what is wrong@@vicsams4431
There's a fleet of 175s in storage that would make good substitutes for the Nova 3s, I'd have thought.
I'm a fan of the 175s! :)
there's also a fleet of class 379s that can run on battery in storage and they have pleasant interiors they would also make a good nova 3 substitute if the can run on batteries
@@networkerfan Only 379013 ever ran on battery, and it doesn't anymore.
TfW stopped maintaining them, hence why they started catching fire. there's no-way Northern will take those on, let alone TpE
Just 91.9K subscribers? Well underrated channel.
An amazing video I mainly focus on Adelaide’s trains since your
So close to 100,000 subscribers I will subscribe
Would love to see Nova 3s on the GWR Portsmouth - Cardiff service which has been very much downgraded recently with grotty suburban Turbos currently trundling along the route
I'm sick of the Turbos too! 😂
You should really visit finland and try one of the double decker sleeper trains.
I have travelled extensively in Finland by train. But avoided the sleeping car trains as you miss the scenery in the dark ! Best regards from London England.
CAF have a terrible reputation for Welding. The Midland Metro trams , have had to be sent to Wolverton and had new sides in them . I should imagine that's what would have to be done to those coaches too. They have a world wide problem with the Urbo trams , which all have weld problems. The west midlands have spent 690 million on new CAF trains, they have weld problems too, along with poor suspension, braking, and trip Axle counters on a daily basis.
Unpopular opinion: I think ditching the Nova 3 is the right move. This train's reliability issues were one of the main reasons why TPE found itself with such a negative reputation. In addition to complicating the driver training situation TPE are facing even further.
I can more or less confirm these are going over to Chiltern Railways to replace the mk3s theh currently use on mainline services! I am very close to a few senior Chiltern employees and this is what they have said!
Cor if that’s the case, Arriva’s gonna have a lovely time fixing all of the teething issues
@@nowapproachingyt they are hoping they will be better than the mk3s which are over 30 years old now and unreliable.
You can't confirm anything because you don't make the decisions!
@@SuperalbsTravels well of course not but I have spoken to several Chiltern staff members and they suggest the mk5s are on their way down to Chiltern
@@Danny-mv9qj But there are also reports that they will go to XC and TFW, so they can't all be true! 😁
Them class 68s are also ridiculously loud, they can be easily heard from over a mile away even just at idle. I live in Scarborough and many many residents have complained.
I have no sympathy whatsoever. You buy a house near a railway, you get trains going passed.
The railway is under no obligation to obtain consent from every resident every time it wants to change rolling stock. That would be unreasonable and unworkable.
These residents in Scarborough are either too young to remember hourly loco hauled trains or too old they have forgotten !
Class 45s operated hourly to Scarborough until 1988. Then replaced by Class 47s until the early 1990s.
Furthermore Scarborough council funded the mainline restoration of 4468 Mallard to work to Scarborough regularly. Are you trying to kid me they never noticed the sulphurous smoke, copious amounts of coal dust and noise ? And this is not ancient history either.
Not looking for sympathy, I don't live in Scarborough myself, I am 1 1/2 miles away and I can hear the Class 68s easily, for comparison, the heritage steam and even the rail grinders are quieter!
The point is, the people complaining are the ones who live nowhere near the tracks @@vicsams4431
It's a shocking waste just to get rid of them. It can only mean less capacity on other services 😡
Ive been to the museum loads of times it's amazing
The reason behind this is that CAF, as a manufacturer, are hopeless at making trains. Where I'm from in Australia, Sydney purchased a bunch of Urbos 3 trams from them back in around 2013. Sometime around 2020, all had cracks found in their frames, and had to be temporarily withdrawn for a few years while being worked on. They were replaced by Alstom Citadis trams (at least someone can do it properly). Only just returned to service slowly in the past year or so. The problem is, no one learn over here and 3 more batches of trams have been ordered for various networks in New South Wales from the same builder, and Canberra has also made the same mistake. On top of that the NSW government has some long distance DMUs on order to replace the HST-like XPT passenger train sets built in 1981 by Comeng and Xplorer sets built by ABB from 1993, which seems pretty stupid. I also know that in the UK the class 334 EMUs were withdrawn due to cracks after less than 20 years service as well. Lesson? Don't buy from CAF.
Back when I lived in Chile we had the same kind of shenanigans with CAF: they won a tender for rubber-tyre trains which had appalling quality issues (faulty PA systems, bad flooring, door issues, etc). Metro SA had to break up their maintenance exclusivity contract so that their old rolling stock supplier could get their hands on the trains to fix them. The manufacturer? Alstom. Of course. They're also having problems with a new batch of automated trains which are speculated to be heavier than CAF promised, causing vibrations above the ground and having slow acceleration/braking. Metro in the end pretty much banned them from tenders, with the most recent one won by none other than... Alstom.
Birmingham in the UK bought the exact same trams and they also found cracks. Unfortunately, nothing was drafted in to fill the service so we went almost half the year with no tram service whatsoever.
It's the same in the Netherlands. Our Sprinter New Generation is a CAF Civity. And despite only entering service in 2018, some of them already got the same hairline cracks. They promised to deliver trains for the lowest price and that is the garbage we got. 216 units of them.
@@DeBert And considering the story of user-ww8sh9fr2y about Urbos trams, I think one can expect the worst for the trams in Amsterdam and Utrecht/IJsselstein...
The UK's Hitachi AT300 (IET) class 800 trains also had cracks, and we've had issues with Alsthom trains too (class 701s taking 4 years to begin in service after delivery). All manufacturers seem to have issues. The only one I've not really heard anything bad about is Siemens, but I'm sure they've had a few problems that I just don't know about.
I'm old enough to remember the old pre-war corridor coaches with their four abreast bench seats facing each other in each compartment. You became acquainted with your fellow traveller as you bounced along on trampoline style spring and horsehair upholstery that smelled of dust and tobacco smoke.
I travel on TPE trains here from Newcastle, not the Nova 3 at illustrated, but the seating is similar. Maybe my ageing gluteus maximima and bony structure accentuate the discomfort, or maybe the train manufacturers are told to cut expense to the max, but I find most modern train seats to be disgusting. However, those First Class ones in your video look good.
The Nova 3 sets are doomed because of the badly thought out aesthetics and cut-price engineering at bogie/chassis level. The push-pull locos are a disaster in looks, performance, and noise.
If you have the time visit my latest take on the looming railway crisis at:
https: // th-cam.com/video/-9G9_gBe8wg/w-d-xo.html
Great video thanks
@RadioJonophone. I love the noise of the Class 68s !
Bring back steam heating and semaphore signals with single line tokens. I am sure BR Mark 1s can be fitted with USB Ports for anklebiting youngsters.
@@vicsams4431 I was standing aside🦺 Brutus listening 🔊🔊🔊 to the beast at idle. It's the closest thing to a dragon. 😁
Beautiful train cool video
I hope Labour sue Cracked And Faulty into paying for someone competent to rebuild them.
These waggons look like the old ÖBB wendewagen what are still in service with a ER20 loco on local lines
Would be cool if you could do a video about them
Also good video
(sorry for bad english)
Thanks, I'll have to take a look! :)
"Bad English"? Hardly. You should hear some of what I hear from people born here. As if grammar didn't exist.
Where will they go next?
Nobody knows!
Some locos are being used for the rail treatment trains ( eg ‘Felix’) ‘the dirtiest trains on the network’
Went from Leicester to Scarborough for business. The York to Scarborough train was by far my favourite.
Interior-wise best first class I've been on.
CAF trains having issues, something even an Aussie like me can relate to with the recent issues with Sydney Light Rail L1 and the issues with the still undelivered new regional fleet
Boa tarde boa viagem ai lindo trem gostei
haha yes
sim, é um bom trem
The transpennine nova 3 is my all time favourite train. I can’t believe they’re cutting it
It's a big shame! 😥
i believe your american counterpart is also doing a feature on this topic, he teased some video the other week. (Trains are Awesome). As someone who lives on this route nothing suprises me, except perhaps good management and everything running on time lol
Two class 68 are going to be redesigned and re-engineered before going out for testing (so we could see them and others around again).
This is to see if they can overcome all the failers and issues that are baked into the original design.
Both will have totally new engines installed, this hopefully will overcome the main problem of the 68 using way too much fuel and then affect the emissions systems and then the software that runs the locomotive.
For some reason, only one of them will have a much bigger fuel tank fitted replacing the current too small one.
Currently, class 68 has to be filled up twice as often as other trains and this is causing issues.
But are they doing (or even planning to do) anything about the noise the engines produce? Compared to the Nova 1 - 802s (and even the 185s) it's atrocious how loud these engines are ...
They were unable to fit a silencer and an environmental scrubber to the exhaust and stay within the UK Loading Gauge. As green fines outcost noise fines, they fitted the scrubber and left off the silencer.
@@danielaltmann8493 This could be fixed with the new engine and other changes but seeing my contact has been thrown off the 68 project and thus not part of this new redesign project, I can not fully answer your question.
@@vicsams4431 This could be fixed with the new engine and other changes but seeing my contact has been thrown off the 68 project and thus not part of this new redesign project, I can not fully answer your question.
@SALibrary Whilst a smaller engine might help with some issues, it won't be easy as the DfT set some hard performance targets. A smaller engine would be less powerful and have a different speed profile. However the Class 185 drinks fuel like no tomorrow, and every coach has its own fuel tank and it's own engine.
Says much about the shambles of a railway system in the UK!
When was in York back in 2020 then travelled from York to Scarborough for the day. Found it comfortable to sit in for the journey in the Mk5.
Then again I don’t find the 80x IET on GW bad either.
Yes have to sit up straight so no slouching like in the good old days of Mk1, Mk2 and Mk3 which travelled in a lot when younger so isn’t that never travelled in them.
Keep them with TPE, it's madness to withdraw them and increase overcrowding.
Its not entirely fair to say LNER is in the same boat as transpenine and describe it as a failing service taken over by the government. The line itself was poorly managed by previous operators however LNER itself has always been a government run OLR service and does a very good job.
How as VTEC poorly managed or failed? They generated more income then the previous EC as it happens.
@@Bungle2010 they might have generated more income, but by all metrics they failed miserably to maintain a profitable railway. If they were successful they would still be there!
@@Bungle2010Never liked anything Virgin touched. They were rubbish on the WCML. Mind you, silly-named Avanti seems to be much worse (if you can find a train. And don't mind paying a fortune). Considering what "Avanti" means in Italian, you could hardly find a more inappropriately named railway company.
@@SonnyNeal_ Because upgrades to the ECML that were factored into their profit forecast didn't happen.
@@johnhammond5379 What you mean is Stagecoach. How were they "rubbish"? Most people would probably prefer if they'd never been kicked out.
I have to say they look great, that livery is brilliant.
I agree!
The most comfortable train I ever rode (was in 2009) was an old 70's slam door carriage with sagging seats that had to be used as a replacement service: it was supper quiet, the seats were still comfortable and spacious, and the train actually arrived early at its destination as it wasn't limited in its speed... Can we just have those back, please?
Tragically, in the Netherlands, with the Sprinter New Generation (SNG/Civity) EMUs, some of them also already got hairline cracks despite entering service in 2018. You have already guessed it: these were built by CAF as well. Fail after fail after fail, unfortunately.
And not only that, when I look at the video, I see the exact same SHITE seats as in our SNG's. The same effin upright position, just different upholstery, but the padding (or lack of) seems totally equivalent. And I remember that they held some seat testing (most likely at Utrecht CS) before making a choice on the new seats for the SNG units and can remember that when they were chosen, many Dutch people could not understand why they went for the absolute worst possible option. Sure, seats in SLT units aren't great either with absolutely zero room for your legs/feet, but at least those are a bit reclined, compared to the horrible upright position on SNG units, just like the ones in this video. And on SNG units I usually try to get a seat right behind the glass-pane divider at the balconies, to prevent being pushed around by the person behind you if he or she uses the backboard of the seat in front of him/her as a rest by pulling up their legs. I hope these are more sturdy, but considering it's CAF-shite, I doubt it.
Plan Z (Koploper) stock in their original state were just absolute bliss compared to the seating options you now get on Dutch trains.
Thank you for sharing the video. We can not have it all! To have more seating capacity, not all can have a great outside view! Further more nowadays with smartphones and laptops, who cares about enjoying pleasant lineside views?
I love class 68s!!!!!! I’m so sad they’re going so soon!!
The idea we can’t maintain these things is more like the bus graveyard in Sierra Leone than I want to think about.
So strange situation, nice scenery though back in 2020🙂🙂🙂🙂
There are talks on moving them to Chiltern Railways to replace the MK'3s and Clubmans on the Birmingham service, allowing the Clubmans to replace the Turbos.
@DrFlex797. It would make more sense to supplement the Mark 3s not replace them. The Mark 3s have only recently had automatic plug fit doors fitted, and their ride quality is actually superior.
Living where I do I find it really hard to actually gauge pricing for other country's rail tickets. In Victoria, Australia, it's $10 for a daily ticket for the entire state.
That is a bargain !
I give you some examples of trips I did here in Europe for comparison,
Italy: from Venice to Ferrara (109 km) 1 hour and 9 min price: 10€
Austria: from the border city Brennero/Brenner to Innsbruck (35 km) 40 min price: 9,80€
Spain: from Cartagena to Murcia (53 km) 1hour price: 5,50€
Germany: from Frankfürt am Main to Mainz (37 km) 45 min price:9,80€
Now compare it with this trip
York to Scarborough (80km) 50min price: 26€
You can see it's pretty expensive for a regional train
What an idiotic waste of money and resources. I cannot believe how ignorant and short-sighted the government officials are on this one.
Air vents on the side of train is interesting and useful
We used to travel in the 185's around the Cumbrian line before its operation went from TPE to Northern.
I liked them and was sorry to see them go. The 195's are Okay, but not quite as roomy.
@Belfreyite. Class 37s were best on the Cumbrian Coast.
5:18 on the nova 1, the seats are very comfortable despite the little padding. Or maybe it just felt good on my knackered back 😂
I worked at the loco at derby apprentice welder, and they parked up the pandemonium just the same so as Italy got the idea
They are being replaced by class 802s, they have been testing them along the route recently
Send the sets down here, to the South Western mainline to Salisbury and Exeter replacing aging class 159s.
Convert them to electro-diesel units with third rail pick ups for the electrified lines switching to diesel on the un-electrified lines west of Basingstoke.
@iankeenan7522. The long term future of the SWML via Salisbury is to wire Basingstoke to Exeter St David's with 25kV AC and operate with dual voltage EMUs. But this won't happen to after the Berks and Hants is electrified, so don't hold your breath !
People can hate all they like on the old Pacers, but at least they fitted the platform height. We had just got step-free stations due to line and station upgrades. New trains a few months later and step-free went out the window. The stations with their brand-new lifts are again off-limits.
Pacers were not step-free, come on. I loved the 143s as much as anyone, but there were two sizable steps.
Airline style seating belongs in aircraft where there is proper space for luggage. It messes up the entire seating layout and also means that the seats must be heavier as they need to have hefty frames.
I went on this train from Scarborough to york and after that a long class 47 came in on platform five a
They'll only get re used when the interiors have been "refurbished" with 5 a side "ironing boards", and strap hangers. They'll then be allocated for long distance Inter City services of at least 6 hours duration. Standing room only!!!!
Doncaster to Sheffield on Transpennine is well one way to put it overcrowded and shit. Recently went to Sheffield from Goole but had to get a connecting train at Doncaster due to the original train which was direct from Goole to Sheffield the train had not got enough crew anyways. Doncaster to Sheffield is usually 20mins it took us 40mins stood up in an over crowded train I always hate going on Transpennine. Had no issues with Northern though just that one unfornate recent thing with lack of crew but personally I think it was a train driver not being well but I'll never know.
You should ride the Pacific surf liner from LA Union Station to Santa Barbara round-trip
Well I tried to do Pacific Surfliner, but it was cancelled.
Voyager family units once withdrawn from Avanti and East Midlands, will be T.O.C. fleet trouble savers. Among candidates are Grand Central, Scotrail and Trans Pennine Express for instance.
I think the Meridians should go to ScotRail
The voyagers have gone to GC
Scotrail and transpennine don't need them, gc are taking the avanti voyagers, the future of the 222s looks very bleak however
@Trainman10715 not really, Scotrail could potentially get rid of the HSTs earlier than expected. Let's not forget the outrage after the incident where a driver list his life, which ASLEF were going to ban drivers HSTs, although cool, are old and require a lot if maintainence, the EMR ones have been refurbished with plans to go elsewhere. Could be Scotrail, or Chiltern.
@@bongman123 scotrail already said they plan to operate the HSTs until 2030. that 'outrage' was usual out of touch union boss drivel where they yelp on about something that most of the drivers dont care about. hence why that big boycott that they threatened never happened, as anyone with a brain knew that the driver would have been killed whatever train he was in. being old has nothing to do with it and they require no more maintainence than anything else, at least when being looked after properly. the 222s have not had full refurbishments and there are currently no plans for them to go anywhere. scotrail are unlikely to withdraw their relatively recently introduced HSTs which are extrememly popular anong their passengers and theyre not appropriate for the chiltern mainline