This British Rail Operator is REMOVING Its BRAND NEW Intercity Trains! Let Me Explain...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2024
- Since its takeover by the Department for Transport in mid-2023, TransPennine Express has been making some questionable decisions, with the withdrawal of their brand new intercity Nova 3 trains after just 4 years of use on the network. But what is it that made these trains get withdrawn? Find out as we take one last ride in this video!
Journey details:
Date of Travel - September 2023
Operator - TransPennine Express
Train Type - Class 68 + Mk5a "Nova 3"
Origin - Scarborough
Destination - Manchester Piccadilly
Price - £27.25 (Advance first single, including Railcard discount of 1/3)
Duration - 2 hours, 23 minutes
Thanks for watching and I hope you enjoyed the video!
Music from EpidemicSound and is used under license.
A massive thanks goes to Steven Hughes for recording my Nova 1 service arriving and departing York station, do check out his channel here: / @stevenhughestransport...
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#class68 #transpennineexpress #nova3 #tpe #manchester #scarborough #tripreport #trains #vlog
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If the MK5s do go to the Scrapyard then that is the biggest waste of money that the rail network has made
I would set up a train company here in Northern Ireland and bring these here on the Derry to Dundalk services. Traction for propulsion would need to be Co-Co for weight limitations of axles not exceeding 130 tons for a locomotive. I would use rebuilt and repurposed Class 60's to waiver the weight restriction and these would be uprated to 95mph running and would have the same CAT power units. Better than going to waste/scrap.
@@BritishRail60062 Em you do realize that the Gauge is different right? that would require a lot of work and money on replacing the bogies.
The British rail network is a complete joke.. What with all the delays, cancellations and breakdowns.. and now they are withdrawing perfectly good train sets you wonder what clowns are in charge...
*FACT CHECK*
- only 13 complete sets built, the "14th" is just the DT vehicle
- "multiple technical problems" are normal for new rolling stock. Most of the systems on the Mk5a are common on the Class 397, and if the Mk5as had been given a proper shakedown, these would have been ironed out.
- "only four have been in regular service" - not true, there have been on average four daily diagrams, but all sets have been cycled in traffic.
- Nova 3 is not maintained at York, Longsight is where the Mk5as are maintained, and Crewe for the 68s
- Seats 6, 7 & 8 are airline style with small tables.
- Nova 3 was introduced a year late, due to delays on CAF's part, in late August 2019. This meant that training would overlap with Nova 1 and Nova 2. Nova 1 was critical to meeting the 125mph requirement of the December 2019 timetable, so this fleet took priority over Nova 3.
- DfT did not "take over TPE due to First's poor performance" - the contract with First came to a natural end and the DfT chose not to renew it. First were working to a Recovery Plan that was agreed with the DfT in early 2023, and despite being ahead of their target week on week, the DfT decided to send a political message.
- Mk5a coaches are rated up to 125mph
(Source: Ex-TPE employee involved in the introduction of these trains)
Hopefully the mark 5as will find a new operator. I can imagine either Chiltern, caledonian sleeper or TFW getting them after they get withdrawn
Scotrail maybe but no one has expressed interest in them, several of those listed have reported no interest in them at all. Most likely if anyone picks them up it will be an open access operator somewhere
@gb9727. Doubt ScotRail will have them having paid to fit HST sets with automatic doors.
Although compatible with the Caledonian Sleeper, you cannot add these coaches as the train is already at the maximum length for London Euston.
theyre no good for sleeper services and neither chiltern or TFW want or need them, they offer nothing over their existing fleets of mark 3s/4s other than worse reliability
@@vicsams4431Scotrail are getting the 222s. I think Mk5s will go Chiltern.
This seems to be the trend to unload loco hauled stock? It's been rumoured that Chiltern are disposing of their locomotive hauled services also ?
I was so angry when they made that decision. They aren't that old at all. I honestly think TPE should've done the same thing than Northern Did on their 195 fleet. Check the Yaw Dampers if they're still ok to run. I've never been that dissapointed in my life ever
trouble is that theyre just rubbish and are a constant source of problems, just like first great western with the 180s 15 years ago, operators can only have so much patience with unreliable rolling stock regardless of how new it is
@@Trainman10715That’s just not how rolling stock works. Railway operators have contracts with stock manufacturers, and if a train fails to meet the minimum standards, they would have to pay back. But that’s not happening. There’s also a minimum period of time for manufacturers to correct mistakes.
It’s completely up to TPE to withdraw these trains from service. This is, with all intents and purposes, the worst possible decision.
@@CityWhisperer guess you should have told that to FGW when they withdrew the 180s after just 6-8 years, or to southwestern when they withdrew the newly rebuilt 442s after less than 2 years. No that is infact exactly how rolling stock leasing works, their contracts all have clauses in them that state that the rolling stock has to be up to a certain standard by a certain time and if it isn't then the operator can choose to withdraw it with reduced or no payback to finish the lease. While the amount of time allowed for the manufacturer to correct flaws and get availability up to a certain level varies between contracts, it's likely that the amount of time specified in the mark 5 contract was
I mean, I do understand the reasoning *slightly*, but not enough for me to think it was a good idea. I think I’ll just watch on for the next week to see these beauties go out of service. Absolutely amazing drivers too; one actually had a quick chat with me the last time I went out trainspotting. They know that they’re going, so I’m pretty certain they love to see all of the increased numbers of trainspotters getting their last views on a screaming 68 coming out of Scarborough or Huddersfield.
The class 68s are new locos which were designed to meet many of the emissions requirements DRS's owner (Nuclear Decommissioning Authority) want for all of DRS fleet of loco's. The class 68 will probably get used for types of DRS contracts to replace the class 37s recently sold by DRS.
Ignoring the railway enthusiasts (of which I'm one) sentimentality, these Mk5s have been nothing but a pain in the seating area. They've been plagued with various reliability and structural issues for both TPE and Caledonian Sleeper. The fact the whole fleet has never entered service says a lot too. Then you have what is a small fleet that requires additional type training for both crew and maintenance staff. Crews having to be rostered so they can keep their knowledge up to date. Do the Nova 3 sets DVTs and the 68s count as two different types when it comes to driver training and cab knowledge, so requiring separate training? Then you have the additional service items that are class specific that the depots have to keep in their stores inventory. I can fully understand why, especially when only there a few are in service, they are keen to see the back of them. With the Trans Pennine electrification it would make more sense for TPE to lease five or so additional bi-mode 802s. A type both the crews and depot staff are already familiar with.
i think they are too noisy. i think theyd be great sleepers in theory but just too loud.
I took a train ride from Oxford to Banbury three years ago. There was a Chiltern Railways train powered by a Class 68. I was amazed at how quiet it was as it left the station. I would only have the GM locomotives at home in Ireland to compare with but I certainly wouldn’t complain about the noise.
Sure, the only thing louder than a 201 is an 071. Both can be heard from miles away. I live 3 miles from Connolly and I can hear the Belfast departing
The complaints have been from local residents, not passangers. The trains are loud (from the outside) compared to the DMUs people have gotten used to, though I wouldn't say they were especially loud per say. I remember HSTs with their original engines were way, way louder.
The TPE livery - the choice of colours, the design itself and its application - is magnificent. I cannot recall experiencing such joy at the appearance of a train livery before. I have little reason to use that line but having previously had the experience - twice - of having to stand on a nasty class 185 the entire journey between Manchester and Leeds, I will not be using it again.
Whatever your thoughts are on the Nova 3s, there should be serious questions raised about the amount of money wasted on rolling stock.......old and new.
Wasted.? They've not been wasting money in the North of England, we had nothing but false promises and cuts for years. Just get them fixed.
@@JohnnyWaterbucketMy point was money being wasted on rolling stock in general.
GWR 769s not entering service.
Class 379s in storage.
Class 442s getting a multimillion pound refit only to be sent to the scrapyard.
Class 332s going for scrap where I'm sure they could have joined the 333s in West Yorkshire.
The list is endless.
Why were they controversial? Was it the noise? Or am I missing something 😅
I don't know what Trans Pennine Express were thinking withdrawing trains with no replacement despite Trans Pennine Express being overcrowded its the same issue as withdrawing the cross country HSTs with no replacement
Thats because the DFT want to run the railway as cheap as possible.
considering that only about half of their mark 5 fleet was being used at any one time, the short fall will be made up with service cuts. XC already have 7 of the ex avanti voyagers allocated to them when they become available to make up for the loss of the HSTs
Those coaches look great and modern and the engines also look great so I can't see what the fuss is about maybe you should come out to South Africa to try some vintage rail travel with all the old rail problems of the 1970's.
Locomotive or engne noise with stabled stock was a problem for local residents at Brighton and Oxford. This could be avoided by providing shore supplies. Diesel locomotives should be getting quieter with the passage of the years.
I did not know about problems with cracks on the Mk5 coaches. What is it with all these new trains cracking!? We had the same problem with the Hitachi IETs and I think some of the new Northern CAF units have had issues as well. What the heck!? Can nobody build anything properly anymore?
Plastic kits with bogies added. Lol
Caf trains in mainland europe also have many cracking problems. Caf is just a bad train builder
1:36 Since the December 2022 timetable change, some TPE services from Scarborough now terminate at Manchester Piccadilly, such as the 06:48, 08:48, 10:48 services e.t.c, so pretty much every 2 hours there will be an extended service to Manchester
Utterly stupid decision, if the 68s are highly disliked in Scarborough then put them on the South Pennine Route, I'd love to see them running on an updated South Pennine route, possibly Liverpool to Lincoln and Skegness and Liverpool to Nottingham
It’s an issue with reliability and planning, not customer satisfaction
@@andrewreynolds4949It’s an issue with not wanting to train drivers and taking the easier way out in the name of “simplicity”
@@CityWhisperer It's an issue with not being able to train drivers fast enough. He said they were already significantly behind before the pandemic
To 15:10
This is not noise from the loco, it's *music* in the ear of railway fans. 😊
Britain - how not to run a country. London has a hell of a lot to answer for.
Er, DON'T blame US for those fuckwits in 10 Downing Street!
Fact MOST supporters of this crappy Government come from OUTSIDE London!
Next time you comment, GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!!!
How is this London's fault exactly?
Sure, blame the economic centre making any money for this dumpster island, instead of the Tories in which you vote for.
14 years of Tory rule and stealing money with corrupt deals with their investors... I mean donors.....
The people of London have voted against this government for a long time, you wanted to blame anyone start with the Brexitering blue wall lot.
Very clear and honest review.
Bit of a plot twist. I saw on TV last night (BBC North West) that more money is being put into the TRU, with additional units to be ordered. I've seen a figure of 29 units, with the option for up to 26 more mentioned on one forum.
I wonder if the leasing company has got any financial help or compensation from CAF due to the Nova 3 troubles and lack of availability? Bet they'd love to hand them back to CAF in Wales.
It strikes me that so many train operators are making some dreadful decisions with regard to rolling stock contracts.
My theory is that it is the Government's "Plan for (all of us to become) Drivers)" so that they can stop funding public transport. They are cutting stock wherever they think they can get away with downgrading comfort - eg. by making more passengers stand - so that we the public give up on rail. It's not just TPE, CrossCountry has been robbed of all five of their 7 coach trains so the longest train they can run which is gangwayed-throughout is now five coaches. And don't get me started on those awful seats that seem to be fitted to every new or refurbished train fleet these days.
It is the DFT removing these trains not TPE. The coaches will go into store and sit and rot like all the other numerous rolling stock currently stored. A prime example is the Class 379 EMUs, just over ten years old but currently rotting in store.
Seems crazy with the 379s, they're probably a near perfect fit for Southern. Just needs the 3rd rail internal equipment activating, shoes attached, and the pans removed
@@leeroberts1192 All to do with leasing costs I believe.
@@EM-yk1dw Exactly, I was told recently that the French ROSCO that owns the stock is asking far too much leasing costs.
@@MrTudwud Yes it is absolutely absurd that modern rolling stock like this is in store, talk about wasting money.
Same reason First SWR ditched the Siemens 707s that Stagecoach SWT had introduced.
Their spec was a little wanting, hard (current industry standard) seats, no toilets, but being Siemens, they worked straight out of the box and are pretty reliable.
SWR could get a new fleet of Bombardicrap 701s for a better lease deal, so it was out with the 707s. Like TPEs Nova 3 choice, it worked out well (not)! With ongoing issuesfor the 701s regarding quality, cab design, union acceptance. At least the 707s are finding a new home at Southeastern, and not seeing out their days at the Long Marston retirement home for bewildered rolling stock.
I took a ride on these last month, and it's a real shame these are getting discontinued so soon as these seem like nice trains!
Cant say i was shocked to hear they were being pulled from service.
Being from Cleethorpes myself it was a pleasure seeing the 68s in our station (especially the Enterprise). But given the length of time it takes to train drivers up on the routes, you'd think that would allow ample time to get signed off on various tractions. But the issue TPE had was not enought training staff to train drivers up. Shame really. But i do take pleasure riding on the 185 DMUs out of cleethorpes when i need to as they are a nice ride (when on time and not overcrowded of course)
Aye. That class 68, she has a great name😃.
never understood why first class is up front with the locomotive given how loud the class 68s are. surely it would have made more sense to commission the DVTs as first class, especially considering that they have slightly shorter space for seating and ive never seen any clips of first class being even remotely full on these sets. that being said i am definitely not a first class traveller so they can do what they like as far as im concerned!
Tbh I've never really understood why we still have first class on modern UK trains these days, it's old fashioned and not even worth the money.
I always wondered why they were built like that You pay extra for a noisy less comfortable journey than you get in the DVT.
If I was translink/NI Railways I'd take heavy interest in the mk5s. They'll obviously need regauging, but NIR needs more trains and already runs a nearly entirely CAF fleet. Finding locomotives could be an issue, but there are a handful of 201 Class in storage
@Midland London when NS and NMBS decided to remove their V250 Fyra sets due to problems wich they first tryed to resolve but with these problems coming back and even a accu burned down and a ventilationplate hanging down wich was spotted by regular maintance they inmediatly withdrawed and replaced it with BR186 on front and back of the train with ICRmh wagons in a sandwichformation wich will now be replaced by the NS ICNG
I am fully conversant with the Fyra saga. The main issue was ERTMS. FS had the same problem between Roma and Napoli. SBB had the same problem between Bern and the Simplon Tunnel. Network Rail had the same problem between Shrewsbury Aberystwyth and Pwllheli.
I wonder if the new ETCS will be any better on the East Coast Main Line?
Nick if you are the same Nick Bartlett of BR Southampton Ops, and lived in Brockenhurst, you and I know each other very well. You taught me an A2 code for TOPS and gave me a carriage key. As I recall you are fond of Class 33s.
The problem with ERTMS can only be understood by reading seven lever arch files of the Safety Case. It contains a real gem. Best not to disclose on an open forum. Written by signal engineers who don't understand how trains are driven by operators.
ERTMS has been installed on the Hertford Loop, Crossrail and Thameslink. So hopefully fine now.
The ludicrous withdrawal of these trains, with their 5-coach capacity and superior comfort, is typical of government run railway - take the cheapest decision regardless of the awful effects it will have on passengers. It is a warning to those clamouring for a return of complete rail nationalisation.
Great video well shot and very informative
I remember the first day one of these trains ran from Lime Street (a Scarborough service, as I recall) - emerging from the Merseyrail underground part of the station, one could hear an engine idling.... turned out to be the Class 68 at platform 4 or 5; it was so loud, the cups in the Costa shop were rattling on the shelf! Boy was that one noisy locomotive... IIRC they eventually stipulated it had to come in DVT first into Liverpool, because of the noise it made, although I think they did manage to quiet them down a bit after a few months. I also seem to remember that the Nova 3 came into service some time before the Nova 1 (the bimodal one), so for me travelling Liverpool to Manchester & back it was pot luck if we got a new train, or one of the old 185s. The staff much preferred the 185, but I preferred the Novas, I have to admit; and for 1st class the Nova 3 was slightly better (if noisier) than the Nova 1. 1st class was also much less likely to be jammed full when the train was overcrowded, due to it being at the far end of the train (usually).
They're lovely trains, though. Sad that the carriages are just being parked up, you'd have thought they could have found *something* to pull them.
They cancel most services from Liverpool Lime Street anyway, so who would notice? Today, the cancelled services TPE services at Lime Street are: 06:14, 08:19, 09:19, 10:19, 12:19, 14:19
Your comments about why people live near a railway are incorrect as there are no legal noise limits from railways and complaints will be handle by the local authority as if from any other source. The rail companies still have a duty of prevent and minimise nuisance.
I've been on the CAF TPE Mk 5s and they are OK, albeit the ride quality all over the place and in hindsight would be classed as stopgap.
I love the exterior paint scheme on the TransPenineExpress but I'll have to rewatch this video to understand why these trains are being withdrawn becaue I'm in multi-tasking overload.
Another great demonstration of levelling up from our wonderful Government I see.
I wonder if they'd be good to use on the Settle and Carlisle? Or maybe TfW could augment its Manchester to Cardiff services, or bring back loco hauled from Crewe to Holyhead?
I got that train every Monday returning Friday. Liverpool Lime Street to Leeds. Always 1st class as I used advanced purchase (£68 as two singles). This was for a year, until lock down occured. Around four or five times the train was cancelled. Which, for Transpennine, wasn't too bad. I got to know the stewards quite well. They would save a bottle of red for me, most Friday evenings. Great way to start the weekend.
I would have been on that train sometimes as well - Monday to Friday Lime St. to Manchester Vic; the actual time varied but usually the 7:54. I also got to know the staff well (Hi Dawn & Gwen, if you're reading this!). I also stopped travelling regularly from the lockdown onwards, and now I've changed jobs so hardly ever go to Manchester any more.
Just yet another occurrence of our government (who hates trains) taking the cheapest and easiest way out of a problem...
The fact that these trains are at a scrapyard is not a good sign. I hope someone gets them
Scrapyard??
For an annual fee of @€25 we can travel from Valencia to Paris on H.S.T for €9 , stunned to see via electric a single from Birmingham to London £80 . Could travel through Spain for a week on our cheap buses for that, free for students ! Many women drivers . With free Wifi
Many comments about TPE decisions but if you speak to industry insiders they’ll tell you it’s a DfT decision (or DafT as it’s know by the industry). I would like to know if TPE will continue to pay for the leasing of the coaches as presumably they signed a contract that would of had a term so the leasor could get a RoI.
First time I saw a Nova 3, I honestly thought the 68 was a stopgap whilst they waited for a more aesthetically fitting loco car to be ready. Just looked really odd to have that sleek DVT at one end then the carriages to just abruptly end and have a freight loco-looking thing bolted on
I'm sure South Africa will take them. We need High Speed Rail to happen. "Nova sounds like a good name ".
Not many standard gauge railways in South Africa. Y’all should hope for some second hand Japanese rollingstock (not Shinkansen, that’s also standard gauge).
I only hope that these sets get taken up by another operator, it's absolute madness to withdraw perfectly operational trains after only 4 years in favour of simply 'running less trains'. The fact that they would've been electrification-ready once the TRU is finished makes it even worse.
Hopefully not all of these will be scrapped
1960s GM engines are all some people hear in the US. That throaty groan echoing through the entire town is just so commonplace that nobody bats an eye when these are full throttle with no silencers. "Ah no the whackin great big train is too loud!" Typical British nonsense.
Oh it's got a CAT engine in it! No wonder they're all broken!
Well we travelled yesterday from Liverpool to Leeds and Back and I thought they were very good, we got excellent feed back from both train train train crews, but that's the difference between train crews and train companies,being an ex guard and driver myself.
.
The observation deck has been closed at the NRM since covid and they are doing doing there upgrades now. Have been a few times and its such a shame because i always used to go with my grandparents
To be honest I was going to ride on them if they came and did the Cleethorpes to Manchester via Scunthorpe and Doncaster but they didn't and it's sad to see them go as they only started running a few year ago.
the 155s dont often run into scarbrough, usually the 1st 155 of the day goes to/from scarbrough to york
I would think the nova 3 are being tested prior to be used in Scotland. I would think these past four years has been a shakedown period prior to these sets being withdrawn to Scotland where they need the bimodal ability. The sets will then be thoroughly overhauled to remove the kinks. It seems the line to Scarborough is the British railways test bed.
The 1st and only Nova 3 I went on was Achilles and I was in 1st class from Manchester Piccadilly to Stalybridge on Feb 22nd 2022
CAF carriages? We had issues with their trams cracking. I think some of the 68s will be heading to Chiltern.
Its simply scandalous, people with pens in offices out of touch with reality. Heads should roll over this scanalous decision 😠, actually the staff and drivers love them.
Trans Pennine Being on time now thats a first
I agree. If you don't like trains, don't buy a house next to the railway. The railway is under no obligation to obtain consent from every resident every time they want to change rolling stock. That would be unreasonable and unworkable.
I like the Nova 3 sets. Rode one from Scarborough to York and one from Leeds to Liverpool Lime Street. Went out in their last weeks and did Manchester Piccadilly to York. Absolute stupidity to scrap or store 4 year old trains, that are actually very nice.
I would rather live next to a railway than a main road, Bet there is more noise from a road.
When the service line was relocated closer to housing and the 68’s left running caused the main objections, from background noise to foreground not a wise plan
Nope. I still have no sympathy with the residents. I remember Class 45s and Class 47s on the Scarborough line. This was an hourly event back then. Not the one or two Nova 3 sets that might be working. My original comments are still true.
I think these first class TPE Mk5 carriages are the best first class carriages going: the seat alignment with the windows, design, decor and colour scheme are all perfect and comfortable. Living near the railway in Leeds city centre the 68 loco's are noisy and I can hear them even with my windows closed and nine floors up. When you think TPE ran a reasonably reliable service with what were new 185's back then for it all to go disastrously wrong when the new Nova fleets were introduced is very disappointing and a missed opportunity (and don't blame the pandemic)! I’m planning a Nove 3 first class day out on Wednesday before they go!
Achilles … how appropriate !!
there was another issue that people felt the units vibrate and noise the place up near the depot, being someone who lives near the depot ive seen it first hand, i absolutely love trains so it didnt bother me but i can understand why some people dont like it, riding the trains where fantastic, i absolutely hated the IET train i got from peterborough upto york so being on one of these afterwards was brilliant! absolutely loved the journey on this thing, and you cant beat a good ol loco, the class 37 and the class 68, two different generations, though both very very iconic sounds, its such a shame to see them go, though the 185s are very quiet and smooth, it woulda been nice to see the class 88 jumping on ship when [more like if] the scarborough branch gets electrified
Correction: Class 156, not 155, which were split up to create the Class 153
Went second class to york from seaside town went back first class what smooth ride 😊
Especially took the chance to ride one for the First and prob the last time in November 2003, from York to Scarborough to see the sea and watch Wish at the Holywood Plaza traditional cinema. There were a couple of other railfans, but they moved to First Class, and I should have sought an upgrade too, but I enjoyed standard class anyway. Hopefully, the Mk5a coaches get used elsewhere.
And the passengers will be screwed for the cost .
And these pricks get away with it over and over
Managed to travel from Cleethorpes to Doncaster on a mk5 set, pity they weren't a permanent fixture
Imo erm should look at this trains to run the Liverpool to Norwich route. Would be a big upgrade on the 170s
@tdlovestrains. Sadly the Nova 3 cannot make use of SP Sprinter Differential Speeds for RA1, 9 to 10 ton axle weight trains. Between Ely Thetford Norwich, SP trains do 90 mph, and everything else is limited to 45 mph. So using the Nova 3s here would double journey times. I appreciate this route used to have loco hauled trains in the 1990s but that was before BR Regional Railways took the decision not to upgrade the track. This route is one of thirty or so, designated as Fragile Track.
I have been associated with railways in UK for many many decades and have worked for BR several times but I have never heard of a 'railway bench'. Do you mean a platform? The longest used to be at Manchester Victoria.
By "bench" is meant a fixed seat of varying lengths for passengers to sit on. I doubt the giant one st Scarborough sees much use (than than for photo cameo scenes)as it is simply too far for many of today's passengers to walk to!
Yeah so Short Sighted it's a shame your losing these nice new Trains (they can only see the end of they're Posh cars bonnet), hopefully the Trains will find a New owner soon!
Ace..easier than driving...and you can have a few beers ...sweet.
I'm only really getting back into railways after a forty year break, so the many [many, many] new types of loco's and rolling stock are taking a bit of getting used to. I was, therefore, quite surprised to discover that the 68's which I thought were nothing more than a fancy version of a 25, are actually 3000 hp! Small wonder that they make a bit of noise.
Around 3800hp. With 5 on they absolutely rocket along.
What the song called towards the beginning of the video?
Once again we see that privatisation leads to utter chaos. The whole lot needs to be taken back into a publicly owned integrated system.
We can't even blame Maggie for this one, even she knew it would be a stupid idea. This one is thanks to Major! Thanks, John.
Governments can do any better? What was the 1955 modernization plan?
What are you on about? This operator IS publicly owned now, and now they are nationalized these trains are being taken out of service because the government doesn't want to pay for them! How is this privatization's fault?
@TakesofWar. In all fairness to Maggie that was not for the want of trying !
I would agree but this decision was made by a government run operator although you could argue the previous private operator was what caused the issues in the first place by getting these trains and not training staff quickly enough.
That makes the C751B retirement seem very reasonable
Why can't Britian's Railway companies just use Thermal and Wind Power Plants for electrification?..
Class 707 was already gone from south western railways it lasted 2 YEARS
Don't know what you're complaining about, try living on the WCML serviced by Avanti Westcoast then you would have something to criticise and complain about. Something for a future video, which is the worst operator TPE, Avanti or First.
Steve Hamond Kaye loves NOVA Threes - the fleet should be kept in my opinion:
The DFT employ accountants to run our railways, not common sense people with sound railway knowledge. Therefore, for as long as that remains the case, expect a lot of controversial decisions like this, plus daft decisions such as the withdrawal of XC HST’s and the much needed capacity they brought to a busy, often overcrowded NE-SW XC route 🤔 DFT decisions seem to be solely based on saving money, not adding capacity or even doing what’s right for passengers. I rarely travel by train these days as its way too expensive for the quality and experience provided, plus services are now very unreliable across nearly all operators with ongoing union disputes. If our Government want people out of cars and on the railways, then its about time they stopped these daft penny pinching devisions and provide trains that are more comfortable, with greater capacity at a reasonable price to passengers. Until that becomes a reality, I fear more and more people will turn their back on rail travel in favour of the car, plane and coach travel 🤔🇬🇧
I agree. The only thing you forgot to add is the DfT is pro road and anti rail. It always has been. Why else don't roads make a profit ? The only toll roads are on some new big bridges and one road in Snowdonia. The railways are seen as a business yet roads get endless funding.
@@vicsams4431 agreed 100%. The Government has been “pro-road” since Earnest Marples was transport minister…he had vested interests in road construction companies 🫣🇬🇧
it’s actually so sad
I wonder if Scarborough to Liverpool will ever return before covid in the future it would be great if they did
I'm sure they could get extra capacity by buying back those PACERS from the scrap man!!!!
The cracks ARE a reason for the withdrawl.
I think GTR should grab the nova 3's for Gatwick express services
Back to tripping over students with their massive house size suitcases bunging up the gangways.
A shame but the class 185 is a reliable and trustworthy loco that has served the north since 2006. It is simply comfier, more well equipped and versatile. And now thanks to the Nova 2 and Class 800, these units can now be coupled to form 6 car units and alleviate the previous issues of overcrowding. These locos will outlive any of the new stock as they are so poorly built and already falling apart in addition to the inconvenient door layout which is inappropriate for the routes TPE have. Long live Siemens and the Class 185.
Because they are absolute GARBAGE.
EVERY time I have use a train hauled (or pushed) by one of these contraptions, it has FAILED causing me (and others) considerable inconvenience.
Good riddance to them. Let's have some units that are guaranteed to complete a journey.
Trains are for commuters, not parka clad train spotters.
I’m an odd one. I prefer the ironing board seats 😂😂
I thought the BR Standards had it bad.
Is it "DOT" doing this Cluster Fu*k with these trains? Unbelievable !!!
Can't be scrapping new stock already...country has gone mad...
I live adjacent to the ECML south of York & have done for many years When these trains pass on full power they are horrendously noisy No other train makes such a row....not even the goods trains. Good riddance!!!
Trouble is crap management, whether private or nationalised. Silly oafs in this land.
Noise complaints? Valenta HST to the rescue! 😂
Or a Deltic!!
seems like caterpillar not really well suited for passenger train locomotive, it's loud, unreliable, and high fuel consumption
same thing happen in my country
should've gone with the cummins or mtu
These trains have mainland europe style first class sadly TPE aren't so fond of them. I kinda get why but they could really use the extra capacity instead of the 3 car desiro's.
Is it not the case that not only are these the newest passenger trains on the BR network but also the least reliable and most subject to cancellation and breakdown?
If you have to leave them "being fixed" in the depot and have to drag out old 185s or 158s to run the service why bother with the shiny new wastes of space anyhow?
Best not get into a hypothetical discussion about the previous operator having bought these over-expensive vehicles as a way of salting the well in case they lost the franchise?
Forgot the bit about them being a tiny almost insignificant volume of the TPE fleet though requiring equal billing in terms of unique engineering, facilities, maintenance, retraining and all the other on-costs.
@@warringtonminge4167 TPE didn't maintain the 68's DRS did all maintenance inc fuelling / exams , due to the fact TPE never owned them . Crew training for drivers/ conductor's was almost completed , any uncovered jobs were sorted with rest day working , this was main issue as training was done during overtime ban . Basically everything was sorted with running the 68's availability was good crew training done , trains were running , disruption caused by training sorted " then withdraw them !!!! " Madness
It’s not the government and no British Rail.
It is a private railway
The engines are too noisy, there are defects and structural failures
I still don’t understand why TPE bought so many small fleets. Better to buy 2 kinds max
@andrewreynolds4949. The Nova 3 was originally part of the franchise commitment to provide a high quality express service. At the time, electrification was just around the corner, so the 68s were only temporary measures until 88s arrived.
You need to remember and this video never mention it, TPE is British Rail as in, government owned and run. So to is DRS and, Northern and ECML.
There is more of the railway run by goverment than private operators.The excuse of driver training is just that, an excuse, when has any Tory government put the correct money into the railway?
I think the issue was that they wanted to just buy nova 1s but hitachi didn't have the ability to make more trains at the time so TPE turned to CAF instead to make the rest that they needed
@@AlexanderBrassington And yet they bought two different small fleets from CAF. If they needed to go to CAF for budget or other reasons they should have just bought one homogenous fleet from them (whether along with the 802s or not).
@@vicsams4431 I understand the individual justification for the units they bought. More 802s would still be better if concerned about electrification, and if they really wanted CAF products they should have bought one larger fleet instead of two smaller ones.
Big question. What if you don't want to change your baby and keep the one you have?
They aren’t being scrapped.
What a joke getting rid of new trains
Whilst not as nice to ride on as a 185 I do like these trains. It is sad to see them go after such a short time. You can bet if they were running around London they would of kept them going until replaced but no This is the Northern Powerhouse where we only get the best over crowding cancellations and timetable reductions in the country and nothing to replace the withdrawn trains adding to our misery. I hardly use TPE any more they have become so unreliable. I feel sorry for those who have no choice but to use their trains.
Nowhere in the country would maintaining such a small fleet that gets 1/3 utilisation with a massive training backlog and poor reliability be a good idea. They were introduced to replace some, but not all, class 185s so there is rolling stock to take up the slack. The service reductions proposed are due to the training backlog so that there are more timetabled slots to run training services. This isn't a North/South divide issue for once but simply common sense.
Fundamentally the issues with TPE and really all operators outside of the South East, is infrastructure. You have InterCity trains trying to fit alongside commuter services on double busy double tracked corridors instead of dedicated fast or high speed lines. Nevermind how the delays in Castlefield corridor in Manchester end up spreading across the North of England.
@@kitfagan2027 It was an odd decision to buy the small fleet but they said it was because in future they could add extra coaches and when electrified they could replace the locomotives with duel mode ones, so the plan did make sense in that way. Covid did not help the situation with driver training and then the big problems of cracks began which seems to be a common fault with CAF built stock not only in UK. There was good news last night 04 11 2023 the Trans Pennine route upgrade has been given a lot more funding but it is still going to be 10 years before the full benefit of 4 track 110mph sections and new stations are built. Morley has been rebuilt and the report showed the new site of Ravensthorpe station and new 4 track viaduct over the river. At present service reductions are I think the right thing to do, at least if they can keep those running, you will have a time table you can rely on and not find there is no train when you get to the station. Signalling on my side of the hills is now controlled by York ROC and new signalling has increased line capacity between Leeds and Marsden. We are getting there but still fall far behind the amount per passenger spent in the South to the amount spent up here. I know the TPE route is a tough one to upgrade with its rugged terrain through tunnels over viaducts and across bog land, it does make the route a scenic one though and a trip to Manchester either by Trans Pennine or Northern through the Calder Valley is one I enjoy.