I really appreciate your recommendations for new up-and-coming machining channels to watch. There's just so much content out there across so many channels, and filtering it down to find the ones worth watching can be a real challenge.
Thanks for the kind feedback. I dont like videos which are boring, and edit tightly rather than for length. Since I didnt do one last week, I had more material than expected this week.
Great video. As always. I'm baffled why you don't have more subscribers than you have: amusing narrative, good footage and editing, some dry humor and B-roll footage. And, of course, the good craftmanship. Top it off with profund anecdotes from the aero industry. It's all there. Love it and keep it up
I didn't used to love the sound of torque wrenches until I used one of the newer digital ones. Struggled to not over torque things by accident because of how accustomed I'd become to that mechanical click and cah-chunk you feel in the handle. Can't get enough of that feeling now lol.
That one shot pump could have self primed but got its feelings hurt from the 11mm hex comment. LOL Great video. Attention to detail is awesome and the torque clicks are relaxing.
Those large smooth curved surfaces on that oil pump would be relatively expensive to machine from billet, so that may have been a factor too. These days we tend to shy away from castings for new design. Better material allowables, a shorter/simpler supply chain (months of lead time on castings is not uncommon), and the need to still machine the castings anyway tend to make machining from billet a more effective solution. Machining is also not as expensive as it used to be. Sometimes using castings can still make sense but not all that often anymore.
@ Steve D, we do quite a bit of "legacy" machining and many of the parts which used to be made from castings are now made from billet for a host of reasons, some of which you mention. The big one you hit on is cost - sometimes getting castings made cost more than just chunking out material then machining into "casting" especially on lower volume parts. Sometimes customers are stuck in the thinking they can "save" money by going the casting route but with modern machining techniques that's not always the case. We do have that one customer who supplies us with casting but they are poor quality and we end up doing a ton of prep work cleaning them up and qualifying surfaces before making the finished part, but in their head they think they are saving money and since they have so much $ invested in the molds they want to continue down that route.
@@MRCNC1967 Thanks for the feedback. You have an interesting insight into that transition.Are you starting to see 3D printed parts replacing castings in low volume complex parts as well? I doubt those engines I showed are sold in more than a few hundred a year.
@@MRCNC1967 Interesting to see even legacy parts being changed over to billet! @RotarySMP Fatigue life is still a challenge with certifying 3D printed metallic parts as far as I am aware.
Agreed. I've even seen some large airframe components, that might have been a frame and sheetmetal part, made entirely on a mill these days, because the part is lighter without all the fasteners. agmetalminer.com/mmwp/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Monolithic-Panel.jpg
In Austria, the Puch moped factories used M7 with 11mm wrench size on the rear sprocket, someone else mentioned french cars having M7 bolts, that is correct, Peugeot/Citroên also uses M11 treads for the head bolts on their engines.
A 3 Jaw chuck will always be slightly off but you could have bored the hole with the clamp partially compressed to get it closer. I believe the flexures are allowing it to shift off center. Try measuring it with the clamp partially compressed to see how much it changes.
@@RotarySMP TOT mentioned you in his video one time on your last cnc conversion and I’ve been a huge fan since. By the way, I love the banana reference from CEE. 👍🏼
I worked for a mining tool manufacturer for 44 years and am now retired, our drilling products are also sand-cast; but to meet our customer demands. We would billet mill certain parts quicker but more costly. Everyone wants it yesterday!!! Oh; and by the way, it’s where you last left it. Play safe from Elliot Lake, Ontario, Canada.
awesome production, always nice to watch and learn. Ballscrew Clutch: The one I know make the clutch contact via the Ball. So it would be: Brass, Spring, Pin, Ball, Steelplate.. (or Brass, Pin, Spring, Ball, Steelplate.) Grüsse aus Winti
Good to see the lathe coming along, this thing is truly well designed and goes together like a watch! As for the turning the timing pulleys that's exactly how we machined them when I worked for a shop many moons ago. The pulleys were flanged so the sleeve was split in half. With bored jaws we could repeat well within .005" on a production basis without any problems, which was plenty good for the customer's requirement. Curious, what supports the ball screw on the tailstock end? Bearing? Bronze bushing? Once you have the locknut tigtened down check for axial end play to make sure bearing are mounted and preloaded correctly. If they need to be replaced you should source sealed angular contact bearings. They are available here in the states so I would imagine they are available in your neck of the woods. We have used them when replacing open ball screw anchor bearings on our mills to prevent failure by contamination an so far so good. And the balls in the torque limiter clutch may have been added to increase spring tension and prevent nuisance slips? It's just conjecture but a possibility. Lastly, if room allows, consider making the motor shaft extender with a shoulder, top hat style to help retain the pulleys and add rigidity.
That is the tail stock end of the Z ballscrew, with the pair of AC bearings in O config. The head stock end has a single deep groove ball bearing, which was not gummed up, so i never removed it. Sealed AC bearings would be an improvement if I run the flood coolant system as generously as they did. Thanks for the feedback on your experience with pulley run out. Good point on the balls int he clutch, although there is not much evidence of anyone disassembling this machine before. I like your idea of a top hat shaft extension. Watch this space.
When you use the collet, you have to put it back into the chuck the same way you made it. Mark the jaw and the collet and replace it that way. You also just need one slit if you make it a snug fit to the part going inside. And you do have to make it a snug fit, or you will have runout.
For a one/tow part job like the pulleys the method you used is probably the fastest. But then a four-jaw-chuck is required. If you lacked one the other way would've been soft jaws in the three-jaw and the homemade collet. Since soft jaws guarantee an almost zero runout, the only limit is the care taken when manufacturing the homemade collet.
The shoulder on the back of the pulley meant I couldn't grip it directly in the 4J. I probably should not have slit that collet and just used the deformation of the alumium to grip.
For the collet idea I would do it pretty much the same but finish the ID at the end when it's just lightly clamped so you don't have to take it out afterwards
Thanks. Drove me nuts at the time, but I was glad I could rob one from the easier to reach place. Now I have to find the discipline to source a replacement M8x70 before I forget and that missing one becomes permanent :)
Appreciate the longer format. Many thanks on this series. As an aircraft engine mechanic I do like the use of globe when dealing with bearings. Fingerprints have a way of staining and can be detrimental.
Since I didn't get a vid done last week, there was more content than I expected. I dont edit for length. I just edit away until it doesnt bore me, and the length happens. :) I have no idea what additives are in Kluber bearing grease, but have no great need to absorb them into the blood stream :)
Wahoo! nice to see the Z axis parts mounted after all this time of seeing a naked bed. Good job! I was very surprised that a pump at the bottom of an oil bath wouldn't self prime - Heather.
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT I guess for it to really be as good or better, the bed would need a touch up with a perfect grinder, to take out that 11µm wear. But the interface will be much nicer, that is for sure.
@@RotarySMP Yep. I agree about the bed, but I guess the advantages of a more powerful control software will outweigh the minimal wear in the bed. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that 11µm will not be a big deal for most parts (not even sure how much it will reflect in the final part).
Ref Z axis lead screw clutch, I can't see a logical reason to have the ball bearings in the spring stack, but it could be a case of increasing clutch slip point, for faster acceleration moves, or higher loads? Like the stop block on the lathe bed, not seen one on bed centre before. If the 3 jaw chuck doesn't repeat, then it's largely a waste of time in my humble opinion, I've used some very ropey chucks in my time, though now have a 2018 conversational CNC lathe ( XYZ Proturn 1630), love a new chuck. Brilliant engineering on that lathe, always a pleasure to witness. Thanks for sharing
That T slot bed on the Boley is a holdover from their earlier watch lathes. Normally it is a PITA as the swarf fills up the slot, but sometimes it come in handy. I need to get a new 3 Jaw for the Schaublin. The two I have for the Boley are both pretty shagged.
Great to see that you wear proper safety shoes nowadays :) Two solutions to the same problem? Although, great minds think alike, two different brains seldom seem to work the same way ... Looking forward to see next weeks episode/progress. Good stuff.
Watching your rebuild that lube pump reminded me of when I rebuilt the pump on my Colchester Triumph 2000 CNC. I found the pump had never been fitted with it's inlet check valve. Well, that explained the bed wear :-( It is electrically driven and lives under a little lift off cover with the oil reservoir. I think the previous owner(s) probably never even knew it was supposed to have a lube pump.
Oh that sounds bad. My Boley has no central lube system, and the unhardened bed is also heavily worn. Given the price of that Colchester new, you would have expected some one to read the manual.
@@RotarySMP Maybe the original owner did know about the pump but didn't notice the oil level was never dropping. I know the factory I got it from would not have bothered checking the oil. They would have waited for the control to start screaming at them about low oil. Maintenance wasn't one of their strong suits.
Yes I agree the sound of a torque wrench gives me that feeling of completion....great progress i can't wait to see next week's video...again thanks for sharing this journey
11mm wrenches are fine for hydraulics fittings, as they are soft and have a big hole in them, with tendency to be serviced while rusted. 5mm (most popular) car brake lines are about randomly fit for 10 and 11mm wrench :>
@@RotarySMP I meant, that roughly the 50/50 chance to find all the M10 5mm line fittings in any car to be for 11mm wrench or all for 10mm. 9mm wrench is another case, it is never used until custom part requires it and every tool kit that comes with 9mm flat wrench is wasting money
I put those boards under it to make sure it couldnt fall more than a couple of cm. That is a pretty freak accident. When they happen, they happen fast.
Good to see things progressing. It would be great if you could send me some of your enthusiasm (and some patience if you can spare it) as I am in a similar position with my lathe and it is not going as quickly!
You read about them ocassionally in Practical machinist, but I am sure they were never common. Still the US has so many excellent alternatives like the Monarch 10EE or Hardinge.
If it were up to me I would make the ball bearing at the end of the plunger. McMaster sells ballbearing detents that I love using in projects. The ball is super hard and low friction, it should be perfect for rolling in and out of detents.
Nice to see so much progress! You’ve inspired me to get over my fear and buy a chunk of aluminium to try making a part on a lathe for the first time next week…
nice video but with sliding joints there is a functional clearance of 0.015 0.02mm is necessary for safe operation so that the oil film can build up safely, otherwise there is a risk of seizing,The ball screw drives are better lubricated with long-term grease (Like oks 422.... or equivalent ) at slow speeds, this also has the advantage that impurities are better transported away and lubrication is ensured for longer time
I was thinking about making a gib adjusting system for my mini-lathe that would use a shaft with cams that would be adjustable against the gib but after seeing the expanding rod type of setup in that schaublin it looks like an easier solution. (I had to put away my machine shop consisting of two small carts with a lathe some other small stuff). I need to find a place to use it now. BALL INSIDE PLUNGER...My guess is that because it is designed to not be used often at all, the ball inside the plunger would facilitate easy movement even after not having flexed in a long time.
I think the three balls may have been added to beef up the clutch loading, or maybe they fit the detents better than the plungers do and actually were fitted below the plungers? It of course means stripping it again to have a look................................ Phil
For as much good information you can find in an IPB (illustrated parts breakdown) there are also many times it just lacks that little bit of exact information one might need. Great video
I'd be impressed (and kind of jealous) if your make-shift collet sat exactly at the same position after taking it off.... If it were me, I'd try to finish all holes and slits before hand (after roughing of course) and then take a final light pass after rechucking to ensure all is right. But that is a part that can't go in without taking the fixture out of the chuck, right? In this case, I'd use soft jaws. If one doesn't have soft jaws, one can improvise by securing aluminium rings on each of the chuck jaws (a bolt for each is enough) and then used them as soft jaws! Keep up the nice vids!
Because of the flange at the back of the pulley, soft jaws would not work, or at least would have needed to be be relieved at the back. I think chuck wear was also a problem there.
@@RotarySMP soft jaws can take whatever form you like, of course relieving should take place. Or, if you used the alu ring clamped on the hard jaws, they are, by definition, relieved! Chuck wear is exactly what you are trying to eliminate with soft jaws, so not really a problem.
Its inspiring for my own lathe project to be able to see a working lathe thats so incredibly well built and designed, that’s awesome Right now I don’t plan to have manual hand wheels for my lathe, all cnc and using a manual pulse generator wheel for anything manual I do. Is there a benefit to the fully mechanical system? Im hoping that with microstepping my steppers will have more than enough resolution for my needs but maybe a fully analog system would be better in some cases-love to hear your thoughts Thanks again and wonderful vid as always!
Hi Robert, Dont bother doing direct manual control, that would just complicate things. As you say, using job encoders is the way to go. While i love fully manual lathes for the speed you can make quick rough parts, jog encoders both axis will get you 90% of the benefit, you just lack the tactile feedback,
Thanks for checking that. On the Maho I have a manual calling for 220, and a sticker on the tank for 68. I decided on 220, as my machines sit around a lot, and this stuff doesnt flow off the ways as fast.
Seems to me the assumption that the ID of the flange part was concentric could have been incorrect. It could easily have been out by what you measured due to use and flexure. Your concentric collet was probably just fine!
What about gluing thin turcite on the X-direction gibs? Then you could preload these gibs, since turcite is slightly squishy and works with preload just fine, without galling.
I dont think you can preload turcite any differently than a cast iron gib. Given the large suffice area, I think even with the much lower young modulus, the turcite will not significantly deform. There will still be the oil in between.
Maybe the balls of the clutch were added by a previous owner to make the clutch stronger? Maybe because the springs had set over time or something like that?
another great video thanks ! For the collet could you have cut a larger shallow bore on the front and clamped a thin hollow bar to preload the flexture then bored the main bore through it? Like chuck jaw grinding. Also, is the pump for manual use? it occurs you could write a macro where after a set number of lines or time the axis moves all the way left and presses the pump on a feature to automatically oil the ways. Cant wait for the next video :D
Thanks for the kind feedback. Yeah it is manual. Given that this machine in now in CNC retirement in my basement, and I am sure to pump oil through every time I use it, I dont think it needs such a macro. That could also be dangerous. Having the machine traverse full RH unmotivated is nearly guaranteed to cause a tail stock collision at least.
@@RotarySMP good point. Hadnt even considered the tailstock. I have a habit of overcomplicating things to account for my forgetfulness. Cant wait to see it running.
@@RotarySMP ... similar pair of shoe pairs ... You'll be surprised how much you still can extend their useful life. Learning a lot through your channel, thanks.
On the oil pump casting vs the fuel delivery block CNC part my thoughts are that the oil pump may be a standard part across several different engines while the fuel delivery part may have multiple variants each with much smaller quantity required. So it’s actually less expensive and less labor intensive to just CNC from billet. I have a 600 ton forging press in house. But more and more often I choose not to forge but just CNC from billet. No need to make and heat treat a die. No trim die. No heating the dies. No heating billet. Similar amounts of swarf generated. I also have lost wax casting in house. But that’s a last resort. Only if there is some odd shape with undercuts that cannot be formed without resorting to a true 5 axis mill.
Thanks for the feedback. You might be right that the lube unit, being simpler, and needing less model specific flows is made in greater volume. Wow, in house forging and investment casting. That is a cool shop you have there.
@@RotarySMP I think I have a few videos up about hot forging. Production quality severely lacking but it’s always fun to watch open flames and hot things getting squished.
I've seen many different overload clutches like that and they've always had the ball sitting directly in the detent. Is the conical end of the plunger a red herring, giving the impression that it should locate in the detent? BTW - kudos for the channel/vids/machines - really great and one of my absolute favourites
When I disassembled it, both X and Y clutches had the cone in the detent and the ball inside. I dont see any evidence of anyone else having pulled this machine apart. It seems original. Thanks for the kind feedback.
You need to mark the rotational position of the diy collet in relation to the 3 jaw and put it back the same way also. Other than that, always use the same pinion to tighten
I did mark it, and return it to the same place. That was the center punch mark I did next to jaw #1. But that is a pretty worn 3J, and I didnt attempt to tighten with the same pinion.
@@RotarySMP that alone could throw it off that much. It's about the play in the plain bearing between the scroll and the chuck body and to which side that's pulled by the pinion. If you know what I mean.
Thank you, @RotarySMP, for my Sunday morning fix. I noticed your comments on way oil. Which one would you recommend for a mini lathe with dovetail ways? Speaking of a satisfying torque wrench click, AvE adds it in even if he's not actually using a torque wrench. Even his crowbars sometimes click :)
I use 220 weight oil for all my machines. It is thick like honey, but since they are not used much, figure it wont run off as fast. Ave has some pretty cool features in his videos.
personally, to make that custom collet holder work i would just try to get a more precise match between the OD of the pulley teeth and the ID of the collet. difficult to measure those teeth of course, they also might be a bit worn. but with pulleys, i honestly think any less than 0.05mm or so runout is more than acceptable, altough you're doing things that spin a lot faster
In hind sight, I should have tried the lost collet without the flexture features. It was only aluminium, so just the deformation of the chuck jaws would probably have been enough to grip the pulley.
I want to add two encoder jog wheels to do "manual" axis movement. Not sure yet where or how I mount that. I'll get the machine running, then do the control panel, and then the pendent module.
I wonder if a time will come that machining is cheap enough, and labour for casting expensive enough, that machining anything like the FCU will be more economical.
Casting also has some advantage in geometry too, like making those curved tubes of that oil pump. But for low volume parts, 3D printing metallic parts is also eating into castings dominance.
18:00 Since Your spindle is threaded, You could make an adaptor plate for the 3 jaw chuck with an indexer shoulder loose about 0,5 mm or so. When clamping, loosen the nuts on the plate a bit and tap with a hammer the chuck and the part into tolerance, thighten the nuts on the adaptor plate, machine the part, feel like a champ.
@@RotarySMP Of course, it would also be quite a project, which would suppose to suite future tasks as well. Other than that,... You cold consider a collet chuck perhaps.
Very nice video. But wait, safety boots when carrying heavy metal items? 🤔 But when I can carry it up a ladder to the attic gripping the handle it doesn't count right?! Right. 🤗 So garden clogs are fine for 25 kg at least. Also having fun with bananas. Whitworth banans. Usally I can get away with forcing UNC into the BSW hole but 1/2" uses a different thread pitch for no reason, so I am all out of luck. Some british guy hooking me up now. With bolts and taps. At least they used M16*1.5 fine on a different model.. (I was suprised, too. But they are still using BSW on the same vise on another spot.). 😑
Nope, its a mind set of European engineers, the desired torque spec (min) requires an m7 thread which 'must' have an 11mm hex see? Couldn't just step up to m8 and 12mm hex oh no. So you end up with the whole bloody tool kit including the 9, 11, 15, 16, 18, 20, 22, 23, 25 mm spanners because once a month mr anal engineer has done it again... Japanese practise tries to standardise on 8,10,12, (rare 13mm usually at the other end of a 12mm) 14,17,19,21,24 for which I am grateful ;-)
The differences in design descisions could also be as simple as it were made by two different design teams. Perhaps even outsourced to a third party company.
They are. The FMU was a Hamilton unit. I didn't check the vendor of the lube unit. The organisational inertia of years of making successful parts one way is a good point.
From one machinist to another, Could I recommend you to use alcohol as a coolant when machining aluminium.. way better than wd40 or anything else. I usally have it in a 0.5l plastic bottle with a small needle hole in the lid. Easy
@@RotarySMP Do we all watch the same videos? I'm into week 5 of retirement and about ready to attempt my 3rd try on my collet chuck backing plate. I'm finding that retirement suits me quite well.
![[DRIP] ‘Woke Up In Tokyo (RUKA & ASA)’ PREVIEW](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QN44lcR_VkI/mqdefault.jpg)
To me the sound of a torque wrench means I'm trying to give it the care it deserves :)
You put that well.
Always found torque wrenches satisfying to use. That click gives a sense of having completed a task with finality
I agree. You put that well.
I really appreciate your recommendations for new up-and-coming machining channels to watch. There's just so much content out there across so many channels, and filtering it down to find the ones worth watching can be a real challenge.
Happy to help!
Thank you for the longer vid tonight, 10-15m isnt enough RotarySMP
Thanks for the kind feedback. I dont like videos which are boring, and edit tightly rather than for length. Since I didnt do one last week, I had more material than expected this week.
Great video. As always. I'm baffled why you don't have more subscribers than you have: amusing narrative, good footage and editing, some dry humor and B-roll footage. And, of course, the good craftmanship. Top it off with profund anecdotes from the aero industry. It's all there. Love it and keep it up
Thanks for your kind feedback. I guess the Schaublin makes for a more limited audience than the Mini lathe, which everyone knows.
@@RotarySMP Maybe, but the Schaublin is a thing to envy. It's just gorgeous.
@@carlhitchon1009 Thanks. I am really glad I took a risk on getting it sight unseen. It is in way better condition than I hoped.
@@RotarySMP And even if it needed more work than it does we would get to see some good content - like scraping etc etc!
Love the torque wrench click!, sometimes I make my own "kic-cik" noise when using non torque wrenches
Ave does that as well :)
The only time I use my 11mm spanner is when I really need an 7/16"
LMAO :) Thanks.
And 1/8 grease fitting also habe a 11mm hex
@@er7124ter Sounds like it is a 7/16 head :)
I didn't used to love the sound of torque wrenches until I used one of the newer digital ones. Struggled to not over torque things by accident because of how accustomed I'd become to that mechanical click and cah-chunk you feel in the handle. Can't get enough of that feeling now lol.
I watched a car mechanic use his torque wrench. Click, 15° further rotation, Ka Chunk. Not sure he understood the tool.
That one shot pump could have self primed but got its feelings hurt from the 11mm hex comment. LOL
Great video. Attention to detail is awesome and the torque clicks are relaxing.
LMAO! well put :)
Those large smooth curved surfaces on that oil pump would be relatively expensive to machine from billet, so that may have been a factor too. These days we tend to shy away from castings for new design. Better material allowables, a shorter/simpler supply chain (months of lead time on castings is not uncommon), and the need to still machine the castings anyway tend to make machining from billet a more effective solution. Machining is also not as expensive as it used to be. Sometimes using castings can still make sense but not all that often anymore.
Good points. Especially in aviation where the volume is pretty low, longer machining time is probably not a big deal either.
@ Steve D, we do quite a bit of "legacy" machining and many of the parts which used to be made from castings are now made from billet for a host of reasons, some of which you mention. The big one you hit on is cost - sometimes getting castings made cost more than just chunking out material then machining into "casting" especially on lower volume parts. Sometimes customers are stuck in the thinking they can "save" money by going the casting route but with modern machining techniques that's not always the case. We do have that one customer who supplies us with casting but they are poor quality and we end up doing a ton of prep work cleaning them up and qualifying surfaces before making the finished part, but in their head they think they are saving money and since they have so much $ invested in the molds they want to continue down that route.
@@MRCNC1967 Thanks for the feedback. You have an interesting insight into that transition.Are you starting to see 3D printed parts replacing castings in low volume complex parts as well?
I doubt those engines I showed are sold in more than a few hundred a year.
@@MRCNC1967 Interesting to see even legacy parts being changed over to billet!
@RotarySMP Fatigue life is still a challenge with certifying 3D printed metallic parts as far as I am aware.
Agreed. I've even seen some large airframe components, that might have been a frame and sheetmetal part, made entirely on a mill these days, because the part is lighter without all the fasteners. agmetalminer.com/mmwp/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Monolithic-Panel.jpg
The clicking of a torque wrench is very satisfying! Always makes me feel like I know what I am doing. LOL
You got that right!
In Austria, the Puch moped factories used M7 with 11mm wrench size on the rear sprocket, someone else mentioned french cars having M7 bolts, that is correct, Peugeot/Citroên also uses M11 treads for the head bolts on their engines.
I'll get our #1 Fan Nico onto sorting that out right away :)
A 3 Jaw chuck will always be slightly off but you could have bored the hole with the clamp partially compressed to get it closer. I believe the flexures are allowing it to shift off center. Try measuring it with the clamp partially compressed to see how much it changes.
Yeah, good point, the flexture is off center.
Another great video! I love following along and that you show all your obstacles and how you over come them
thanks for your kind feed back. This one really was two steps forward, one step back.
@@RotarySMP TOT mentioned you in his video one time on your last cnc conversion and I’ve been a huge fan since. By the way, I love the banana reference from CEE. 👍🏼
@@TheLastTater Yeah Tony was very helpful with the shout out. CEE makes brilliant content.
I worked for a mining tool manufacturer for 44 years and am now retired, our drilling products are also sand-cast; but to meet our customer demands. We would billet mill certain parts quicker but more costly. Everyone wants it yesterday!!! Oh; and by the way, it’s where you last left it.
Play safe from Elliot Lake, Ontario, Canada.
Thanks. I was sure somone will have seen where I put it. :)
awesome production, always nice to watch and learn. Ballscrew Clutch: The one I know make the clutch contact via the Ball. So it would be: Brass, Spring, Pin, Ball, Steelplate.. (or Brass, Pin, Spring, Ball, Steelplate.) Grüsse aus Winti
Thanks for the info! Seem the consensus is the ball was added to increase the preload, and therefore the break out torque.
Nice job really enjoyed this video!
Thanks for the feedback.
Lots of visible progress this time! Yay!
I was pretty happy about that as well.
Wonderful work as always.
Thanks for watching.
Great to see it taking shape.
Yeah, nice how it comes together.
I LOVE the sound of a torque wrench! Excellent work Sir.....
Thanks Jasper.
Good to see the lathe coming along, this thing is truly well designed and goes together like a watch! As for the turning the timing pulleys that's exactly how we machined them when I worked for a shop many moons ago. The pulleys were flanged so the sleeve was split in half. With bored jaws we could repeat well within .005" on a production basis without any problems, which was plenty good for the customer's requirement. Curious, what supports the ball screw on the tailstock end? Bearing? Bronze bushing? Once you have the locknut tigtened down check for axial end play to make sure bearing are mounted and preloaded correctly. If they need to be replaced you should source sealed angular contact bearings. They are available here in the states so I would imagine they are available in your neck of the woods. We have used them when replacing open ball screw anchor bearings on our mills to prevent failure by contamination an so far so good. And the balls in the torque limiter clutch may have been added to increase spring tension and prevent nuisance slips? It's just conjecture but a possibility. Lastly, if room allows, consider making the motor shaft extender with a shoulder, top hat style to help retain the pulleys and add rigidity.
That is the tail stock end of the Z ballscrew, with the pair of AC bearings in O config. The head stock end has a single deep groove ball bearing, which was not gummed up, so i never removed it. Sealed AC bearings would be an improvement if I run the flood coolant system as generously as they did.
Thanks for the feedback on your experience with pulley run out.
Good point on the balls int he clutch, although there is not much evidence of anyone disassembling this machine before.
I like your idea of a top hat shaft extension. Watch this space.
I love the clicking of torque wrenches in the morning!
.... sounds like...quality! :)
When you use the collet, you have to put it back into the chuck the same way you made it. Mark the jaw and the collet and replace it that way. You also just need one slit if you make it a snug fit to the part going inside. And you do have to make it a snug fit, or you will have runout.
I marked the collet with a center punch against jaw one, and return it there. But that is a pretty worn chuck.
For a one/tow part job like the pulleys the method you used is probably the fastest. But then a four-jaw-chuck is required. If you lacked one the other way would've been soft jaws in the three-jaw and the homemade collet. Since soft jaws guarantee an almost zero runout, the only limit is the care taken when manufacturing the homemade collet.
The shoulder on the back of the pulley meant I couldn't grip it directly in the 4J. I probably should not have slit that collet and just used the deformation of the alumium to grip.
For the collet idea I would do it pretty much the same but finish the ID at the end when it's just lightly clamped so you don't have to take it out afterwards
Thanks. Good tip.
Referring to that lovely Schaublin, using a phrase borrowed from Pilatus: relentlessly Swiss. 🇨🇭Terrific update!
Thanks. I am also really happy how nicely everything fits together.
I like that you show your mishaps, even the small ones like a missing bolt. It makes the project very "relateable" :-)
Thanks. Drove me nuts at the time, but I was glad I could rob one from the easier to reach place. Now I have to find the discipline to source a replacement M8x70 before I forget and that missing one becomes permanent :)
Appreciate the longer format. Many thanks on this series. As an aircraft engine mechanic I do like the use of globe when dealing with bearings. Fingerprints have a way of staining and can be detrimental.
Since I didn't get a vid done last week, there was more content than I expected. I dont edit for length. I just edit away until it doesnt bore me, and the length happens. :)
I have no idea what additives are in Kluber bearing grease, but have no great need to absorb them into the blood stream :)
Wahoo! nice to see the Z axis parts mounted after all this time of seeing a naked bed. Good job! I was very surprised that a pump at the bottom of an oil bath wouldn't self prime - Heather.
Thanks Heather. I was also surprised by that :) Seemed like this was one step forward, one backwards for the last two weeks.
19:53 😂 my impression of the scale was way off. Thought that set took up an entire wall and you were a giant for a second.
LMAO! :) Thanks.
Good job. It's starting to look like the real thing :-)
PS: I also love the clicks in torque wrenches - somehow, very satisfying :-)
I love they way this machine goes together. No violence required :)
One could do a whole relaxation video ASMR for the mechanically inclined :)
@@RotarySMP LOL. In the end it may even be better than it was before. New tech should add to it.
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT I guess for it to really be as good or better, the bed would need a touch up with a perfect grinder, to take out that 11µm wear. But the interface will be much nicer, that is for sure.
@@RotarySMP Yep. I agree about the bed, but I guess the advantages of a more powerful control software will outweigh the minimal wear in the bed. Maybe it's just me, but it seems that 11µm will not be a big deal for most parts (not even sure how much it will reflect in the final part).
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT I consider that minimal wear. I am not going to do anything about it.
The click on your torque wrench gives a very satisfying, authoritative click.
Mine makes a flimsy sounding, tin-ny click. :(
:) It is a nice one.
Hey Mark, just wanted to give a quick thanks for finding and sharing the other channels. I can only watch reruns so many times.
Those three channels are all really good, especially how quickly they found their voices.
Ref Z axis lead screw clutch, I can't see a logical reason to have the ball bearings in the spring stack, but it could be a case of increasing clutch slip point, for faster acceleration moves, or higher loads?
Like the stop block on the lathe bed, not seen one on bed centre before.
If the 3 jaw chuck doesn't repeat, then it's largely a waste of time in my humble opinion, I've used some very ropey chucks in my time, though now have a 2018 conversational CNC lathe ( XYZ Proturn 1630), love a new chuck.
Brilliant engineering on that lathe, always a pleasure to witness.
Thanks for sharing
That T slot bed on the Boley is a holdover from their earlier watch lathes. Normally it is a PITA as the swarf fills up the slot, but sometimes it come in handy.
I need to get a new 3 Jaw for the Schaublin. The two I have for the Boley are both pretty shagged.
The compulsive use of a torque wrench is a give away that you're an aircraft mechanic :-)
Very satisfying tool to use :)
Great stuff!! I’m presently rebuilding a EMCO Maximat super 11 , some things look so familiar, thanks for sharing 🤙🏼
Nice lathe. Emco made good products.
Great to see that you wear proper safety shoes nowadays :) Two solutions to the same problem? Although, great minds think alike, two different brains seldom seem to work the same way ... Looking forward to see next weeks episode/progress. Good stuff.
thanks for commenting.
Congratulations on 20k subscribers!
Thanks a lot. It has been pretty slow steady growth all year. Hope that continues.
A most satisfying video! Lots of assembly - and associated clicks. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Watching your rebuild that lube pump reminded me of when I rebuilt the pump on my Colchester Triumph 2000 CNC. I found the pump had never been fitted with it's inlet check valve. Well, that explained the bed wear :-(
It is electrically driven and lives under a little lift off cover with the oil reservoir. I think the previous owner(s) probably never even knew it was supposed to have a lube pump.
Oh that sounds bad. My Boley has no central lube system, and the unhardened bed is also heavily worn. Given the price of that Colchester new, you would have expected some one to read the manual.
@@RotarySMP Maybe the original owner did know about the pump but didn't notice the oil level was never dropping. I know the factory I got it from would not have bothered checking the oil. They would have waited for the control to start screaming at them about low oil. Maintenance wasn't one of their strong suits.
@@LesNewell Good point. It is not like the way oil level drops fast.
Yes I agree the sound of a torque wrench gives me that feeling of completion....great progress i can't wait to see next week's video...again thanks for sharing this journey
You and me both!
THANK YOU , AND WELL DONE. REGARDS RICHARD.
Thanks for watching Richard.
Good thing those couplers were vacuum sealed, ya know, for freshness
That is probably to last time they are sealed and dont leak air :/
11mm wrenches are fine for hydraulics fittings, as they are soft and have a big hole in them, with tendency to be serviced while rusted. 5mm (most popular) car brake lines are about randomly fit for 10 and 11mm wrench :>
So it is just 10mm, loose tolerance :)
@@RotarySMP I meant, that roughly the 50/50 chance to find all the M10 5mm line fittings in any car to be for 11mm wrench or all for 10mm.
9mm wrench is another case, it is never used until custom part requires it and every tool kit that comes with 9mm flat wrench is wasting money
17:08 saw that coming. I broke my ring finger doing that.
I put those boards under it to make sure it couldnt fall more than a couple of cm. That is a pretty freak accident. When they happen, they happen fast.
Good to see things progressing. It would be great if you could send me some of your enthusiasm (and some patience if you can spare it) as I am in a similar position with my lathe and it is not going as quickly!
Try making videos nearly every week... worked for me :)
Great video! I assume you're an aircraft mechanic, right? Love the view of LOWK.
That is LOWS - Salzburg, not Klagenfurt, but yeah, I am an aircraft mechanic by trade. Thanks for watching.
I desperately need a Schaublin... They seem to be really uncommon where I live in US. Great video!! Looking forward to next week!!
You read about them ocassionally in Practical machinist, but I am sure they were never common. Still the US has so many excellent alternatives like the Monarch 10EE or Hardinge.
If it were up to me I would make the ball bearing at the end of the plunger. McMaster sells ballbearing detents that I love using in projects. The ball is super hard and low friction, it should be perfect for rolling in and out of detents.
This should never leave the detent, as it is only an overload clutch if you crash, which I am hoping is behind me now (Famous last words.)
that minion clip ;) we all know that its good enough :P
Those minion films are genius.
Nice to see so much progress!
You’ve inspired me to get over my fear and buy a chunk of aluminium to try making a part on a lathe for the first time next week…
Go for it!
Thanks for the kind feedback.
nice video but with sliding joints there is a functional clearance of 0.015 0.02mm is necessary for safe operation so that the oil film can build up safely, otherwise there is a risk of seizing,The ball screw drives are better lubricated with long-term grease (Like oks 422.... or equivalent ) at slow speeds, this also has the advantage that impurities are better transported away and lubrication is ensured for longer time
Thanks. Good point. I just rechecked the manual, it says to apply grease yearly with a brush to the ball screw.
I was thinking about making a gib adjusting system for my mini-lathe that would use a shaft with cams that would be adjustable against the gib but after seeing the expanding rod type of setup in that schaublin it looks like an easier solution. (I had to put away my machine shop consisting of two small carts with a lathe some other small stuff). I need to find a place to use it now. BALL INSIDE PLUNGER...My guess is that because it is designed to not be used often at all, the ball inside the plunger would facilitate easy movement even after not having flexed in a long time.
I also suspect it was done that way to ensure a good seat for the spring.
@17.11 nice save man
Thanks :)
Never had to use an eleven mm wrench before, untill I started working for Ferrari, the exhaust studs are m7 and have 11mm nuts.l
Sometimes I think designers do this just to annoy us :)
Great job and progress this week. Keep that up and it will be chip making time soon.
I hope so.
I think the three balls may have been added to beef up the clutch loading, or maybe they fit the detents better than the plungers do and actually were fitted below the plungers? It of course means stripping it again to have a look................................
Phil
They were definitely not in the detents. I checked the disassembly videos. I think you are right that they were to beef up the break out force.
For as much good information you can find in an IPB (illustrated parts breakdown) there are also many times it just lacks that little bit of exact information one might need. Great video
True. I am glad I have any manuals for this 40 year old machine.
Never seen a tapped hole in a key before. I'm sure I will be using that next time I make up a key for something.
I hadn't either, but then the ISO40 shank for the shell mill arrived with a threaded hole in it as well. New standard. Big improvement.
I'd be impressed (and kind of jealous) if your make-shift collet sat exactly at the same position after taking it off....
If it were me, I'd try to finish all holes and slits before hand (after roughing of course) and then take a final light pass after rechucking to ensure all is right. But that is a part that can't go in without taking the fixture out of the chuck, right?
In this case, I'd use soft jaws. If one doesn't have soft jaws, one can improvise by securing aluminium rings on each of the chuck jaws (a bolt for each is enough) and then used them as soft jaws!
Keep up the nice vids!
Because of the flange at the back of the pulley, soft jaws would not work, or at least would have needed to be be relieved at the back. I think chuck wear was also a problem there.
@@RotarySMP soft jaws can take whatever form you like, of course relieving should take place. Or, if you used the alu ring clamped on the hard jaws, they are, by definition, relieved!
Chuck wear is exactly what you are trying to eliminate with soft jaws, so not really a problem.
Thanks for highlighting other channels. Always good to find new content. Question about those bellows, are they noisy when expanding and contracting?
Not that I noticed. But I wasn't really paying attention for that.
Its inspiring for my own lathe project to be able to see a working lathe thats so incredibly well built and designed, that’s awesome
Right now I don’t plan to have manual hand wheels for my lathe, all cnc and using a manual pulse generator wheel for anything manual I do. Is there a benefit to the fully mechanical system? Im hoping that with microstepping my steppers will have more than enough resolution for my needs but maybe a fully analog system would be better in some cases-love to hear your thoughts
Thanks again and wonderful vid as always!
Hi Robert,
Dont bother doing direct manual control, that would just complicate things. As you say, using job encoders is the way to go.
While i love fully manual lathes for the speed you can make quick rough parts, jog encoders both axis will get you 90% of the benefit, you just lack the tactile feedback,
RotarySMP thats great to hear. I was assuming that was the case but always good to know Im not missing something big hahaha
uff that slip in the dril thank God that dint broke anything
One nice think about a low power (330W) belt drive drill is you normally get belt slipage rather than destruction.
@@RotarySMP yeah that is cool and a safe feature kinda
Great progress! love that one shot way oiler, I wish my crappy lathe had that feature.
It is a really nice feature, especially without needing a bunch of external oil lines.
Getting close. 😀 I think final boring to size after slitting might have worked better. I wonder how accurate the belts are?
Or just clamping without the flextures. It was only alu, so it should have deformed easily enough to grip for that light cutting load.
oh you were in Salzburg, too bad I didn't know that. :p
Only briefly, and it was a busy day. Sorry.
@@RotarySMP I see Untersberg, i hit the like button
@@surmetall5596 It is a very pretty view from that hangar!
Awesome work as always ❤👍.
Ps love the torque wrench sounds.
Thanks again!
I think the manual calls for ISO 68 way oil, but i don't think the 220 will cause any problems as long as it doesn't get to cold in your Shop.
Thanks for checking that. On the Maho I have a manual calling for 220, and a sticker on the tank for 68. I decided on 220, as my machines sit around a lot, and this stuff doesnt flow off the ways as fast.
nice work.
Thank you! Cheers!
Seems to me the assumption that the ID of the flange part was concentric could have been incorrect. It could easily have been out by what you measured due to use and flexure. Your concentric collet was probably just fine!
I should have mounted the pulley on the original motor shaft and checked it's flank runout before starting. Didn't think of that.
very good job RotarySMP..thanks for your time
My pleasure! Thanks for watching and feeding the algorythm with comments each time.
What about gluing thin turcite on the X-direction gibs?
Then you could preload these gibs, since turcite is slightly squishy and works with preload just fine, without galling.
I dont think you can preload turcite any differently than a cast iron gib. Given the large suffice area, I think even with the much lower young modulus, the turcite will not significantly deform. There will still be the oil in between.
Maybe the balls of the clutch were added by a previous owner to make the clutch stronger? Maybe because the springs had set over time or something like that?
Possible, but there is no evidence of anyone else ever having disassembled anything on this lathe.
another great video thanks ! For the collet could you have cut a larger shallow bore on the front and clamped a thin hollow bar to preload the flexture then bored the main bore through it? Like chuck jaw grinding. Also, is the pump for manual use? it occurs you could write a macro where after a set number of lines or time the axis moves all the way left and presses the pump on a feature to automatically oil the ways. Cant wait for the next video :D
Thanks for the kind feedback. Yeah it is manual. Given that this machine in now in CNC retirement in my basement, and I am sure to pump oil through every time I use it, I dont think it needs such a macro. That could also be dangerous. Having the machine traverse full RH unmotivated is nearly guaranteed to cause a tail stock collision at least.
@@RotarySMP good point. Hadnt even considered the tailstock. I have a habit of overcomplicating things to account for my forgetfulness. Cant wait to see it running.
Balls in the clutch mechanism might have been added to increase the slip torque?
Could be. DoAll must have seen some limitation of this design, as their other models dont have them.
Intro: I own a similar pair of shoes ... :-). Anyone else?
Torque wrench click: sound of a job (almost) done and therefore satisfying.
That pair is on it's last legs. Been very comfortable.
@@RotarySMP ... similar pair of shoe pairs ...
You'll be surprised how much you still can extend their useful life.
Learning a lot through your channel, thanks.
Looking good!
Thank you! Cheers!
I make soft jaws, for concentricity sensitive parts on a 3 jaw spiral chuck
Because of the flange on the back of the pulley, a soft jaw would have needed a groove as well.
On the oil pump casting vs the fuel delivery block CNC part my thoughts are that the oil pump may be a standard part across several different engines while the fuel delivery part may have multiple variants each with much smaller quantity required. So it’s actually less expensive and less labor intensive to just CNC from billet. I have a 600 ton forging press in house. But more and more often I choose not to forge but just CNC from billet. No need to make and heat treat a die. No trim die. No heating the dies. No heating billet. Similar amounts of swarf generated. I also have lost wax casting in house. But that’s a last resort. Only if there is some odd shape with undercuts that cannot be formed without resorting to a true 5 axis mill.
Thanks for the feedback. You might be right that the lube unit, being simpler, and needing less model specific flows is made in greater volume.
Wow, in house forging and investment casting. That is a cool shop you have there.
@@RotarySMP I think I have a few videos up about hot forging. Production quality severely lacking but it’s always fun to watch open flames and hot things getting squished.
I've seen many different overload clutches like that and they've always had the ball sitting directly in the detent. Is the conical end of the plunger a red herring, giving the impression that it should locate in the detent?
BTW - kudos for the channel/vids/machines - really great and one of my absolute favourites
When I disassembled it, both X and Y clutches had the cone in the detent and the ball inside. I dont see any evidence of anyone else having pulled this machine apart. It seems original.
Thanks for the kind feedback.
You need to mark the rotational position of the diy collet in relation to the 3 jaw and put it back the same way also. Other than that, always use the same pinion to tighten
I did mark it, and return it to the same place. That was the center punch mark I did next to jaw #1. But that is a pretty worn 3J, and I didnt attempt to tighten with the same pinion.
@@RotarySMP that alone could throw it off that much. It's about the play in the plain bearing between the scroll and the chuck body and to which side that's pulled by the pinion. If you know what I mean.
@@MF175mp I am glad that it worked as well as it did with the 4J :)
Thank you, @RotarySMP, for my Sunday morning fix. I noticed your comments on way oil. Which one would you recommend for a mini lathe with dovetail ways?
Speaking of a satisfying torque wrench click, AvE adds it in even if he's not actually using a torque wrench. Even his crowbars sometimes click :)
I use 220 weight oil for all my machines. It is thick like honey, but since they are not used much, figure it wont run off as fast.
Ave has some pretty cool features in his videos.
3:50, me thinking if this man pulls out a torque wrench on a cover bolt I will keel over. Surely not... And then...
Gotta keep in practice .)
Hello from Salzburg! That looks like the view from the private hire hangar, no? Have you been to Hangar 7?
Yeah, that is a really nice view from the hangar there. I couldnt resist shooting a clip. :)
personally, to make that custom collet holder work i would just try to get a more precise match between the OD of the pulley teeth and the ID of the collet. difficult to measure those teeth of course, they also might be a bit worn. but with pulleys, i honestly think any less than 0.05mm or so runout is more than acceptable, altough you're doing things that spin a lot faster
In hind sight, I should have tried the lost collet without the flexture features. It was only aluminium, so just the deformation of the chuck jaws would probably have been enough to grip the pulley.
Very exciting, how the queue for part orders is looking like?
Long wait for parts. Very long wait. :)
Maybe the balls in the clutch just increase the spring tension so that the clutch slips at a higher torque.
Could be. I see no evidence that these have been disassembled before, so they would be like that from the factory.
I'm curious, are there any plans to add control buttons to the carriage for simple functions like manual jogging and E-stop?
I want to add two encoder jog wheels to do "manual" axis movement. Not sure yet where or how I mount that. I'll get the machine running, then do the control panel, and then the pendent module.
@@RotarySMP very nice! Like how its coming on so far
@@wildin13 Me too. Thanks.
I wonder if a time will come that machining is cheap enough, and labour for casting expensive enough, that machining anything like the FCU will be more economical.
Casting also has some advantage in geometry too, like making those curved tubes of that oil pump. But for low volume parts, 3D printing metallic parts is also eating into castings dominance.
That oiler pump cap is clearly a 10mm one made by STI....Spinal Tapping Industries...
:)
Brilliant 😊
Thanks for the kind feedback.
18:00 Since Your spindle is threaded, You could make an adaptor plate for the 3 jaw chuck with an indexer shoulder loose about 0,5 mm or so. When clamping, loosen the nuts on the plate a bit and tap with a hammer the chuck and the part into tolerance, thighten the nuts on the adaptor plate, machine the part, feel like a champ.
True, but in this case, I also needed that collet to clear the flange on the back of the pulley, so I couldnt clamp it directly in jaws.
@@RotarySMP Of course, it would also be quite a project, which would suppose to suite future tasks as well. Other than that,... You cold consider a collet chuck perhaps.
Very nice video. But wait, safety boots when carrying heavy metal items? 🤔
But when I can carry it up a ladder to the attic gripping the handle it doesn't count right?! Right. 🤗 So garden clogs are fine for 25 kg at least.
Also having fun with bananas. Whitworth banans. Usally I can get away with forcing UNC into the BSW hole but 1/2" uses a different thread pitch for no reason, so I am all out of luck. Some british guy hooking me up now. With bolts and taps.
At least they used M16*1.5 fine on a different model.. (I was suprised, too. But they are still using BSW on the same vise on another spot.). 😑
That British standard stuff does my head in. Where is the adjustable wrench :)
11mm wrenches will be in good shape compared to the 10mm so no rounding over important bolt. I’m sure that’s the reason they chose that size…:-)
Yeah, that will be it :)
Nope, its a mind set of European engineers, the desired torque spec (min) requires an m7 thread which 'must' have an 11mm hex see? Couldn't just step up to m8 and 12mm hex oh no. So you end up with the whole bloody tool kit including the 9, 11, 15, 16, 18, 20, 22, 23, 25 mm spanners because once a month mr anal engineer has done it again... Japanese practise tries to standardise on 8,10,12, (rare 13mm usually at the other end of a 12mm) 14,17,19,21,24 for which I am grateful ;-)
@@alan-sk7ky I really like machines where everything is done with one or two sizes. The Schaublin is pretty good with most fasteners M8, and a few M6.
The differences in design descisions could also be as simple as it were made by two different design teams. Perhaps even outsourced to a third party company.
They are. The FMU was a Hamilton unit. I didn't check the vendor of the lube unit. The organisational inertia of years of making successful parts one way is a good point.
Hi there. Just found your channel. What city are you in. You sound like a Kiwi. I'm in Chch. Cheers
Welcome. I am a Kiwi, but live in Vienna.
From one machinist to another,
Could I recommend you to use alcohol as a coolant when machining aluminium.. way better than wd40 or anything else. I usally have it in a 0.5l plastic bottle with a small needle hole in the lid. Easy
Good idea. I usually have a bottle of it in with the shellac.
Awesome!
Thanks. Nicely made machine.
As I watched this video drinking my morning coffee out of my CEE coffee cup I heard a very strange measurement unit.
Curtis calls :)
@@RotarySMP Do we all watch the same videos? I'm into week 5 of retirement and about ready to attempt my 3rd try on my collet chuck backing plate. I'm finding that retirement suits me quite well.
@@ve7cbh I think the TH-cam algorythm is very good at herding up all into the same theatre.