ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- Yes, yes, folks, this is an epic roundtable over everything related to bulking, with fellow fitness TH-camrs Natural Hypertrophy and Geoffrey Verity Schofield.
Time-Stamps coming soon!
0:00 - Geoff and Abel chat a bit before NH joins
3:41 - intro of the bulking topic
4:40 - Geoff introduces how he talks about bulking and training during a bulk
8:58 - NH reflects on training considerations on a bulk
13:21 - Delving into more training stuff with NH and Geoff
28:50 - talking about the weight gain process, some talk about main-gaining too
44:00 - NH touches on main-gaining and more weight-gain related things
1:00:00 - Abel's way too long ramble-question about body-fat gain as a regulator of anabolism
1:18:50 - Body-fat set-point talk
Abel's Coaching and consultations:
ssdabel.com
insta: @abelfitstuff
Natural Hypertrophy TH-cam channel:
/ @naturalhypertrophy
Geoff TH-cam channel:
/ @gvs
Geoff's Website:
www.verityfit.com/
GVS and NH in the same video? this is gonna be a worthy watch
hope you'll like it!
Seems like NH didn't get the memo about the dresscode :D
People talk about epic crossovers. This.This is the one.
🙏hope it will live up to the promise💪
This one right here
Hearing NH discuss cutting milk out of his diet and then seeing Geoff's facial expression 🤣
1:25:33
@@snowiblind Thats the face almost of like an older brother laughing at a younger brother because he relates to the struggle HAHAA love it!
Cow milk is nasty but if you mean products using cow milk yeah it’s hard
Cow milk is amazing
@@KurokamiNajimi yeah man, bro's milk directly out of the tap is the way to go.
Geoff is cutting and not watching bulking related content.
Also Geoff:
Bromley used a good phrase the other day: ‘Cruising altitude of volume’. I think with a bulk you increase your altitude, climb a little, and make the cargo a little heavier.
just goes to show how individualized the approach should be while working within the boundaries of universal principles.
The crossover episode we always wanted! This encounter is legendary i'm truly grateful. I have followed the three of you for the quality content you deliver and the admirable intellectual honesty. Thank you for this gem! Best of luck for you and your channels.
thank you so much brother, very kind of you to say all that - hope you enjoyed the episode!
ALRIGHT! 🎉
Thanks for bringing on NH & Geoffrey! It’s gonna be a super informative 100 minutes 🤓😅🙌
You guys are the best! 👊
This was great...finally finished this over a period of 4 days. Well worth it
Aesthetics round table. Many people like myself value aesthetics over everything . . . more than strength and sheer size. I rather look great year around and grow slowly than be in constant bulk and cut cycles and hate the way I look half the year.
Great video and discussion overall. Definitely something that should be a common podcast
New to this channel. Big fan of Geoff and NH, so this was an easy click.
15m in, and it's also an easy subscribe for me.
You are a really solid interviewer Abel. Your ability to ask solid follow up questions and get people to really clarify exactly what they're trying to say, it's very impressive.
Not sure how much interviewing you usually do. I'm sold on the channel regardless. But hope you do more in general, you have a knack for it for sure
that's a big big compliment brother thanks so much! i just need to learn to not ask a question so slowly as if I was shot with a dose of horse-tranqulizer haha! honored you subbed!:)
@@ssdabel haha, it didn't sound that slow to me. Just thought you were being very thoughtful with your choice of words. Anyhow keep up the great work
Going to watch this in full when I get up tomorrow morning, as this should be a good discussion.
hope you'll enjoy it!
I listened to this during my morning road trip. Great info on bulking. I’m currently attempting a lean bulk and it’s been tough keeping to a nice moderate rate of weight gain. I tend to overeat.
100% one of the best videos I’ve seen
This is pure GOLD
Due to the help and knowledge of you guys, I have never experienced a plateau in my training and gaining good amount of muscle
I personally feel the best at 13% body fat.
great getting to see all these goats sharing their perspectives and philosophies
YOOOO this is great content love this collab!
NH talks a lot but it is gold. Skinny fat stuff,pre-diabetes from being at the top fat range too long... ect. Smart guys all of them. I learned and reminded myself of a lot of wisdom here. Thanks
I agree with the jacked bearded dude in the navy blue shirt.
hehehe😁
29:28 the helicopter game. That's exactly how I feel with training volume
Late to this since I've been busy and finally listened to this on my podcast app. Excellent af. Even while I disagree with some of the things NH says, I appreciate him nontheless.
I Totally agree with NH, after my pre-contest i did pretty much what he said about upping the volume during the bulk whenever i felt i had more room to throw more sets here and there.
I ran a Arnold split with a range of 10-12 weekly sets at the start, after 8 months i was already up to 20-24 sets
I’ve been thinking about it non-stop, but now I remember! @30:10 You mean FLAPPY BIRD! 😅😅😅
tbh your channel has become one of my favs, love to hear guys like NH and geoff who actually know what they are talking about having a debate/conversation on topics that most lifters care about, thank you so much for making it possible!
thanks a lot for tuning in and for the kind words, hope it was informative!
Nice discussion, lots of useful information.
For bulking, I find it best viewed as a road map. I started trying to gain muscle at a quite lean 135 lbs (5ft7). And I essentially bulked with some mini cuts all the way up to 160 lbs (20% body fat) over the course of 12 months. I estimate that I gained 12 pounds of muscle in that time. Solid newbie gains. After that point, gains were not entirely linear. And during year 2, I only gained about 6 lbs of muscle. So I reached 168 lbs (20% body fat). For year 3, I will get lean for a few months… but I am confident I could still gain 4-5lbs of muscle in the year… so I calculate that I should spend minimum 5-6 months slowly bulking to reach body weight 172 lbs. For year 4, if I want to try to gain 2-3 lbs of muscle, I should try to reach 178 lbs.
I don’t think much of the minutia here matters a lot in terms of specific procedure. But you should have 3 conditions met to reach your goal:
1: consistent nutrition that supports your short term goals (reasonably brief cuts for health/aesthetic, or staying on pace during a bulk)
2: high intensity, progressively overloaded resistance training
3: adherence toward long term goal (i.e reaching your top-range body weight - maybe 20% bf - on schedule that matches your aspired/realistic muscle growth).
1:22:55 I had what Nh has, love handles and I think it relates to health, when your health is worse from being a high bodyfat for a while (unhealthy) you can stabilize your body by either recomping or slow cutting that helps your body composition stabilize to health
my coach back at it again with the best podcast to listen to while crushing my steps 👊
thanks Sir, don't get your feet to sore, you have no fat-padding there anymore ;)
Watching this while eating a pound of pasta (dry weight.) Let’s get these gains 💪
@user0178 now eating whole pizzas I can get behind (saying this at 6'2" 170 lbs lol)
haha, nice one! eat it slowly though, don't hurt yourself :'D
The widow maker squats on a bulk is great pal
This is going to be a good one fellas
hope you'll dig it!
Great discussion.
The best trio ❤
🙏🙏
Super interesting chat thank you gents
Glad you enjoyed it!🙏
My three favorite TH-camrs in one Podcast!
🙏🙏
Looking forward to this one
hope youll like it!
Great podcast boys! 🙌
🙏🙏
Love it.
This podcast is a pure gem thank you for this
thanks a lot, glad if it was a good listen!
@@ssdabel yeah I learned a lot all three of you guys are such an inspiration I have to be honest
Wow I just ran into this brutal warmup experience on squats. I decided to do an extra “working set” and it was easy! I probably could have been doing more the last few weeks but I was just running into some uncomfortable warmup sets.
Interrupting my regularly scheduled routine for this one ☝️
hope it'll be worth it! :D
great discusion guys!
thanks brother, glad you liked it!
Love the topic, love the guests. Good work!
thanks a lot!
Let's go!!
💪💪💪
Great suggestion: bulk should correlate to increased volume. Went from 180 to 190 in 4 months.
That was dope. Thanks for taking the time!
thanks brother 🙏💪
It’s funny how all those guys that packed on a good amount of muscle always say they shouldn’t have bulked like that but I bet that’s where they got their best gains. Not going to do it but I think it’s true
I’ve been dabbling in bulking short term 3-4 months and probably 300 cal over maintenance. I’m able to push harder and made some decent gains this year doing that. Put on 2lbs of muscle this year from that. I’m always in the 18/20% body fat usually though. Can’t get below that easily 😢
I've been reading a bit more about bulking. I've read that the newer you are too training the higher your bulk calories can be, since you have newbie gains.
As you're more advanced your buying calories shouldn't be too high, as muscle gain is slowed.
So I guess it depends on how long you've been training and how much muscle you currently have.
A lot of informed people will actually recommend bulking as a start just to break that plateau of being skinny or underdeveloped (assuming you aren't overweight, then cut instead).
often true, yep. best of luck with your bulking journey!
@@Sjcstro84 I haven’t thought about that but I think you may be on to something. 👍
I dirty bulked as a beginner and had to cut 60 lbs to get to 14%, don't even regret it. It's a lot easier to lose fat than build muscle.
damn, I just discovered this channel. Abel seems like a really nice guy.
🙏🙏honored!
Bros! Hyped to listen to y’all talk fitness
Hey do you see any improvements from your partial experiment?
hope you'll like it!:)
Loved the thumbnail!
haha thanks! I couldnt quite make NH's left hand (right technically I guess) look non-fucked up because of the background removal, but tried my best haha
Didnt even notice it until you said it lol!
1:15:52 I think I have done the work and studied it. It took three bulks/cuts
Great conversation. Just one off-topic random question. SSD Abel are you Scandinavian?
Really enjoyed this one!
glad to hear, thanks for tuning in!
I’ve been lifting for 6 months, (had some calisthenics background so already had a bit of muscle), in the first month I gained 4 kg (maybe this was water weight idk). After that for half a year didn’t gain any weight, even regressed. So I started at 61kg and am now 63 with a height of 178cm. Started to think that there is something wrong with me because of my disability of gaining weight. Have been eating healthy and as much as I can and exercising regularly. High testosterone and low body fat, around 12% (started lifting at similar bf). 22 yrs old now.
Revival fitness will be having absolute kittens watching this.
I find it difficult to extrapolate anything from the ambiguity of inherent discrepancies between people. Yes, there are general trends, but variation makes a mockery of trends. Great content as always. I follow the whole team. You lads all push highly informative videos! I appreciate the work! Cheers!
thanks a lot, and definitely agree on the variation point, at best we can give suggestion on where to roughly start if one is reallly not sure
Good stuff
🙏💪
I just chase quality hard sets and weight and keep pushing. Then kinda deload back off slightly and do it again.
Loved this 🙏🙏❤️❤️‼️
glad to hear, thanks for watchin/listenin!
Epic.
🙏🙏
Accurately track Cals and measure everything, added 300 cals to my diet, gained 10 pounds in 2 weeks I don’t get ut
As I was watching this I zoned out a little and as I stared at NH while he spoke, he started to look like Lord Farquaad.
haha - definitely taller though :'D
I am a HIT man but it's always interesting to see the high volume people's perspective
yeah i think it comes down to the individual. I was an endurance person, normally played football and martial arts thou its weird because even at a small body fat percentage i didn't look frail especially for a dude who moves a lot. I was always a high responder to high volume training
Frequency is an underrated variable here in this process. Rather than worrying so much about whether you’re doing 2-3-4-5 sets of something. You could simply contract/extend your “training cycle”. Number your workouts 1-3 or 1-6 or whatever. Most people do workout one on Monday always, then go in order until it repeats next week. If you’re bulking… you could increase the frequency to work out 6 or 7 days a week, doing the same workouts. Then maybe during a cut, you might need two full rest days, so back that off to 5 days a week… yet keeping your workouts essentially the same with the same intensity
Very good advice, I have a 5 day training cycle that i do within 7, 10 and 14 days depending on bulking maintaining or cutting.
What do you think of maintenance workload/volume while cutting and then obviously musclebuilding volume while bulking?
Bro tip: just get an intense manual labor job while trying to dirty bulk and lift = super slow bulk with minimal fat gain
Man...aint that true
Or just eat clean and lean bulk instead.. your insides will still hate you for eating junk lol
👍👍👍
Love this discussion.
thank you, glad to hear it!
The 3 wise men
When I was younger 1/5 day frequency got me the best actual muscle growth. Now at 40, idk. I’ll have to experiment more. But it’s possible I need slightly higher frequency.
Interesting. In my first few years I trained major muscles 1x every 6-7 days and saw great results. Then many years at 1x every 3.5 days (2x/wk). Now in my 30s I dropped it back to 1x every 4.5 days on average. I think I prefer a slightly lower frequency like this, not too low to sacrifice results, great recovery from hard training.
@@Latissimus65 it really does seem like frequency can have a very large impact
Holy shit I’m excited for this one
hope it won't dissapoint!
Excited for this one
hope itll be worth the listen!
Some gold so far. Part way thru. Looking forward to more on this morning’s commute to work!!
Loved it thank you!!
These guys look like brothers
I wanna see these love handles NH is going on about
Cutting roundtable soon?
Tribune of the Gods
epic
oyyy💪
It is funny, my bench press loses strength on a bulk but all me incline dumbbell and shoulder presses maintain pretty well. It is just the bench press and squat that suffers for me.
this is gold
cheers!!
You should do a binge eating round table. I’ve never succeeded at a diet and often find I lose weight when I stop dieting because my relationship with food gets healthier. Of course, I gain weight as I start binging even while eating normal but it’s slower…Sometimes being on a diet I gain weight due to the binging.
I’ve tried so many times and so hard and in so many different ways, always failing within three weeks because something happens to my brain when I track food where I just get obsessed over bad shit.
At this point I just want to be healthy but I feel like binge eating is not discussed enough because people feel like they should be “strong” enough to control their impulses.
Did you try seeing a professional psycho therapist?
@@davyddocarmocabral2989 a nutritionist who I sent basic pictures of my meals to worked but it ended up being too expensive.
I just failed another cut I and I gain wait every time. I swear the only thing that works are small slow changesC exercising,l consistently but not too hard, and strength programs.
Looking back, I ballooned to two pounds heavier than the diet except after the first diet.
Now my goal is just to try to be healthier, look after my heart and cardio, try to limit binge eating. It’s not the best goal for awesthetics but chasing an ideal physique has left me in the end unhealthy.
@@Ratstick58 You could have underlying anxiety problem. Eating disorders need to be treated by therapy. And did you try eating voluminous meals full of vegetables?
Why NH and Geofrey are so close on yt to each other?
When NH speaks, people listen.
46:10 who's Dave?
Edit: saw other comment reply, thanks.
My boy Geoff aye
fuckyeea
I've tried a small lean bulk and I gained a small amount of muscle in a couple months. Nothing to write home about. I'm planning on being more aggressive because I seem to gain muscle very slowly and lose fat and tissue fast.
how to do a conservative/ Small lean bulk?
This conversation was great. A lot of the time minus the occasional dick joke here and there you get these really smart incredibly helpful fitness dudes together and the talk gets dry as Fuck and hard to make through their 1:30 rants, yal had my attention the whole time. Thanks a lot! Good shit
haha thank you! i dont rant much, just am somehow annoyingly slow sometimes, i cringe when i listen to it afterwards
Dave Maconi missing the show ;)
just wait n see:)
47:44 LOL
I would argue in contrary that by lean bulking at a slower rate of 1lb a month or so, you will take a longer time to bulk up and thus more training exposure, meaning if you gain strength with a slow bulk, it’s more likely muscle than fat. This is especially true if you are training for longer in a slow bulk state which gives you more time to gain strength(not just from getting fat, but from the training effect).
In an ideal world i would agree, but how can you make sure you're consistently in that small surplus? You can't.
@@Spike00773 by rigorously tracking calories.
@@Spike00773 If your lifts are consistently going up, and you are slightly heavier month to month, you are gaining muscle. With the benefit of staying lean
Just gain in a healthy manner and you don't need to be neurotic about basic things like diet/sleep/training volume/recovery.
I addressed this point in previous comments and in my last video, and the short summary is: A very meticulous person that is very strict with their diet and lifestyle - and of course tracking - could do that successfully. For most people, its simply not feasible, they don't keep tings standardized enough for that, they make too many errors with tracking, so the end result is that their intended 100 calorie surplus in reality will be sometimes 300 kcal, sometimes maintenance, sometimes a cut, so it will just be a shitshow. SO they might as well go for a somewhat bigger surplus, and be more consistently in that actual surplus.
The thing about Arnold contest prepping was that he did lighter weights with supersets, with the intention to workout as fast as possible trying to beat the last workout time. So it was a cardio weight workout to loose fat.
Look up sals classic bodybuilding archives, rics corner, Robbie Robinsons channel. And you can learn from the source in how They trained in the 70s
Also a sidenote, ric drasin(Arnolds old training partner) mentioned in a video that Arnold rareley trained over 1 h in the offseason and 2h in contest prep.
The 3hour training was just for the magazines back then
to be fair I'm often very skeptical about the published workouts of famous bodybuilders, with the exception of Dorian, who has actual training journals published. Otherwise, it could be completely made up for all we know.
@@ssdabel yes i just told you. The published stuff in the magazines was exagerated. Go look up youtube channel ”rics corner” and ”training with arnold” where you can listen to Arnolds old training partner.
Can you try unilateral training on lateral raises triceps biceps lats resr delt. With different volumina for left and right side. That would be interesting
i'll do experiments like that in the future for sure. for now im a bit too paranoid for that haha
I think it would be good to discuss what a good amount to cut as well per month as it’s the other side of the bulk cut equation
yep, though that one is much less debated.
I know it would be a tough challenge but you should try to debunk Eric helms' strenght and muscle pyramid, everyone preaches it but I believe that it's holding back too many people
you think so? curious, which aspects do you feel that about? Some things I do differently than how its said in that book, but I don't think it would really hold someone back. Though not sure at this point what he says about the weight gain aspect, I read the training part mostly.
@@ssdabel he pictures exercise selection as one of the least important things, he exaggerates the importance of progressive overload and says that the most important thing is adherence; he is also very volume - centric
But we all know deep down that following a good program inconsistently does better than a religious but ineffective routine
@@nomecognome354 Exercise selection IS one of the least important things. Bench press vs machine chest press, squat vs legpress, lat pulldown vs weighted pullups. You will grow regardless of the exercise as long as high effort and PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD are applied.
Progressive overload is FAR from being overexaggerated. Progressive overload is THE MOST important factor because its what validates that youre actually making progress, and drives that progress forward. Without it, you will NOT continue to make gains period.
Inconsistency to a good program IS NOT superior to a consistently putting in the work with what people would call a bad program. Consistent exposure to weighlifting itself is going to still net you some progress where no matter how good the program is, if you miss days or dont stick to it with discipline, you will make zero to no progress
@@nomecognome354 You need to study the basics of training, and what consistently produces the best results in people. Progressive overload is extremely important and exercise selection is not. Adherence is critical.
This is like you arguing against calories in calories out for fat loss in terms of training. We know what works, and Eric’s material is based off that
This is such a strange stance to take, Eric is incredibly reasonable and his Muscle Pyramid does a phenomenal job at distilling decades of research into applicable advice for the majority of people. Unlike some researchers, he always is very explicit about the shortcomings of research and has the anecdotal experience to back up his claims in the real world. There are plenty of people worth "debunking", but Helms is certainly not one of them.
Good video but I kinda feel bad for Geoff 😭, kinda felt like mostly NH was receiving questions
I know what you mean but I think its because I had more followups, as in some cases I wasn't sure at first what he meant.
Let's wear the same t-shirt ..
heheh. Geoff's is a v-neck tho.
When your three favourite amateur cam models get together👌🥰👀😹💖
hehehe, we tryyyyy
55:30
47:43
lool I forgot about this