Nihilistic fitness what a beauty of a phrase lmao. Oddly enough I was prepping a video on that exact topic last night. You guys crushed that topic, definitely some gems in here.
That point about Derek is on point. I think it was perfectly calculated. He gave Liver Ling a massive boost in followers, built up the hype, then cashed out by “exposing” him with emails from his close friend, whilst receiving a massive amount of virtue signals, further re-enforcing the fanboy-ism of his audience.
I love how everyone praises Derek like a saint and just forgot about when he sold Turkesterone with less than 1% of the active ingredient listed on the bottle. He is just as big of a scammer as Liver King.
It’s hard to imagine someone had that much foresight into the situation tbh, I don’t think it was that calculated from the start. He likely just made videos on relevant / hype topics.
He's a good friend of Steve and the two talk all the time. You saying that it never came up in conversation in the year and a half that Steve had this knowledge? C'mon.
I am not into bodybuilding, nor will I ever be. I didn't even know anyone in this video existed 5 minutes ago. But the genuine spirit I just felt from watching Natural Hypertrophy speak is as rare as it is elating. I love it. Natural Hypertrophy, I am totally your fangirl💖
20:38 The points in this segment are unfortunately so true, as some of the best & most helpful content never sees the light of day because it’s not full of drama or entertainment. It’s very frustrating that many of us put so much time & effort into making very high quality content with integrity that adds real value, but because the topic and/or title isn’t sexy enough, it gets a tiny fraction of the views that nonsense brainless content gets. The issue really lies with the viewers & the content they want to see & click on.
I mean... thats how life works. Poeple wanna be entertained. Perfecting yourself is gruesome. The few of us that actively seek knowledge appreciate your content way more than the billions of brainless binge-watchers. Dont feel sorry for yourself: you are actually lucky
@@TheRedJohnn Thanks for this great comment. Very kind of you to say and I appreciate it. I also fully agree about that being how things seem to work in life…..but here’s the upside in my view: Those of us who operate with integrity & actually care about doing things the right way to benefit our viewers will always come out on top in the end. We create sustainable brands and/or followings based on honesty & integrity not only because we actually care about helping people, but also b/c we want to like the person we see in the mirror every single day. On the flip side, those who won’t think twice about selling their own soul for fame or money usually end up blowing up quickly, but also have a very short shelf life before imploding…..and they destroy their reputation in the process & are remembered forever for being liars or cheats. I actually feel bad for those people as they probably cringe every time they look in the mirror and aren’t very happy with what they’ve done or become just for some quick short term financial gains. Wishing you a happy & healthy holiday & new year! 💪
To me the real reward is getting to more and more fully inhabit my real self. Many fakers do actually create a long-sustainable income. Not sure I'd want to live in that kind of head, heart, or body though.
Really, really enjoyed this talk Dave and co. Especially the part about the personal experience vs science and the rest of course. Keep it up Dave, your podcasts recently have been a joy to listen to.
Finally got around to watching. Thanks for hosting the podcast. It's good to have you guys all discussing lifting at the same time. 1:18:47 - I think Joe Delaney is someone who has stayed fairly lean all through his lifting career. I just watched his 10 year lifting video so that example is still fresh in my mind.
Great discussion! I didn’t realize you came to the same conclusion I did with respect to naturals bulking, but that was cool to hear you bring that up here. I left a comment on the bulking roundtable video about it. I just always wonder (since we don’t have studies on it, just tons and tons of anecdotes) could extremely impressive natural lifters have ever achieved their physiques without bulking like they had before? Even when some now preach against it? I just wonder if there’s some “potentiation” effect of getting bigger that then allows a natural’s body to hold more muscle than it would have ever otherwise been able to hold just “maingaining” their way up. Since I also have never seen an example of a great natural lifter who never overbulked at least once.
Yio that was such a great podcast. Listen to hundreds of podcast and this one has to be one of my favorite ever. That was awesome. Thanks gents! So many great points and wisdom. That was actually awesome.
For me the WHOLE problem with TH-cam & fitness is it shouldn't be the MAIN source of income if all .. it would be mainly be about entertaining & educating people and finishing a project (the video) .. so the NH route is the in my opinion the WAY to go about things .. u have a stable Job and TH-cam & fitness is something on the side u do to help others as a Charity .. Because once it turns into the MAIN source of income people will use excuses like : "Oh man i have bills to pay" , yes that's why it shouldn't be your ONLY or MAIN Job tho other wise will mostly have to sellout ____ But that's in a Perfect world tho where people don't just run mindlessly toward any $ putting everything else to the side .
Bell talks in code about knowing that he's on gear. He said on the podcast when talking to his other guys that he has his own beliefs about the truth about the Liverking's PED use, but didn't want to get into it. Now you can argue that the easy way to avoid that uncomfortable situation of going after his guess would have just been not interviewing him, and I agree. But he never really fed into the "He's natural," part of the discussion. At least the stuff I heard.
When ethical discussion bring up the point: "Ah, but it's their business, so, like, whatever gets the clicks..." It *is* a signal that we live in a corrupt and corrupting system. I don't think the discussion should just stop there, like we have an unquestionable tenet of faith: "Thou must maximise profit". WHY must it be that way? And listing the historical shortcomings of other systems isn't an answer. We can use our creativity to find a better way without treating life like a multiple choice quiz to find the least-worst system.
Don’t get me wrong, not here to defend Mark Bell, but not sure his role here matters. Mark Bell has been a charlatan for years pushing anything that brings in a few bucks. When Mark Bell says something, it’s super educational in that you should probably assume the opposite.
I feel like the main limitation of the majority of hypertrophy studies is that they are always using untrained individuals, which those people respond to everything. Plus the majority of people who train, don’t actually train HARD. Participants that had to train at RPE 7 are probably at RPE 3.
Listening to these, i have to say, abel has have the best jokes from them all haha...also it appears to me he has some weird crush on NH or why is he talk so weird to him hahahah...i hope there will be episode two of this fitness drama gossip podcast
7:33 I've been calling out Nsima for years man. Since I've seen him beside Mike O'Hearn. Highly doubt he's natural. NH is wrong here. Mark actually says that Mike O'Hearn and John Cena are natural...
Mark calls him Mike O'Tren just go along with the trolls... in a sarcastic way. Stan Efferding does the same and stated many times in different videos that O'Hearn is natural, mostly because of how big he was at 16, "never exploded, never got acnea", etc.
NH saying you have to clickbait to push information to people...i dont think its a good argument, it will reinforce the clickbait trend even more...i would say there is a value in bringing back "real" thumbnails and channels like basement bodybuilding or yours seems to get more popular these days, even without doing that
the thing about TH-cam - i wanted to say this on the pod but didnt get to it eventually - is that you need to be pretty clever with how you're trying to clickbait. blatant clickbaiting doesnt work very well anymore, at least not nearly as much as it used to. I remember being this vegan chick (maybe she was the banana girl?) who had titles like, "I forced him to get sterylized" and whatnot, and the video would have nothing to do with it. that would get penalized heavily now and would never get a lot of views.
@@ssdabel lol yeah i remember that trend...its so dumb if you think about it...we are suppose to be the end of thousands of years of cultural evolution, right? The peak of human inteligence...Haha yeah ofc
Let's cut mark some slack. He went to liverking's house not in their studio, he's too nice a guy & old school to do more than give the guy enough rope to screw himself. There's a big difference between challenging someone's lies in your studio vs calling someone a lier in their own house.
Thanks for having me on! thanks GVS and NH too, always a pleasure 🙏
We need to get more of these podcast type videos like this with all of theses guys would love to see Alex Leonidas in the mix as well
I’ve had Alex on twice! Cool guy. Tough to get more than 4 people at once though.
Nihilistic fitness what a beauty of a phrase lmao. Oddly enough I was prepping a video on that exact topic last night. You guys crushed that topic, definitely some gems in here.
Yeah, we need you in one of these as well bro with the views you offer
Thanks for tuning in man
hakuna matata is for the past, nihilistic fitness is the new phrase 😅
Hey that was my phrase! #stolen
@@BBoor82 you were credited in the pod:)
That point about Derek is on point. I think it was perfectly calculated. He gave Liver Ling a massive boost in followers, built up the hype, then cashed out by “exposing” him with emails from his close friend, whilst receiving a massive amount of virtue signals, further re-enforcing the fanboy-ism of his audience.
I love how everyone praises Derek like a saint and just forgot about when he sold Turkesterone with less than 1% of the active ingredient listed on the bottle. He is just as big of a scammer as Liver King.
It’s hard to imagine someone had that much foresight into the situation tbh, I don’t think it was that calculated from the start. He likely just made videos on relevant / hype topics.
He's a good friend of Steve and the two talk all the time. You saying that it never came up in conversation in the year and a half that Steve had this knowledge? C'mon.
NH is a legend
This is like the Avengers. Thank you gentlemen
Ah, yes. Another 1 hour and 39 minutes of pure joy
1:38:53 "I have a side channel called athlean x, it's pretty big"
I loled hard
Nice podcast, GVS and NH make a great duo
One of the best roundtables in podcast lifting history.
I am not into bodybuilding, nor will I ever be. I didn't even know anyone in this video existed 5 minutes ago. But the genuine spirit I just felt from watching Natural Hypertrophy speak is as rare as it is elating. I love it. Natural Hypertrophy, I am totally your fangirl💖
Hah, curious how did you come across the video?
Girl, you need to squat. It will change your life for the better.
NH female audience up from 0.01% to 0.02% 📈📈📈
If NH doesn't take good care of you, come over to daddy Abel 🤤
He's happily married, so don't get your hopes up too high lol
Holy shit if alex was here this would have all of my favs. Looking forward to watching this, thank you for the great content man.
He’ll be back!
the 4 (natty) horseman. nice!
Of muscle-pocalipse! ….. damn that was lame, let me try that again…. The four horseman of gainspocalipse… fuck… I give up
What a great round table
Thanks Jon!
Ahhh this is exactly what the doctor ordered - my favorite content creators dropping gems 💎- keep it coming
20:38 The points in this segment are unfortunately so true, as some of the best & most helpful content never sees the light of day because it’s not full of drama or entertainment. It’s very frustrating that many of us put so much time & effort into making very high quality content with integrity that adds real value, but because the topic and/or title isn’t sexy enough, it gets a tiny fraction of the views that nonsense brainless content gets. The issue really lies with the viewers & the content they want to see & click on.
I mean... thats how life works. Poeple wanna be entertained. Perfecting yourself is gruesome.
The few of us that actively seek knowledge appreciate your content way more than the billions of brainless binge-watchers. Dont feel sorry for yourself: you are actually lucky
@@TheRedJohnn Thanks for this great comment. Very kind of you to say and I appreciate it.
I also fully agree about that being how things seem to work in life…..but here’s the upside in my view: Those of us who operate with integrity & actually care about doing things the right way to benefit our viewers will always come out on top in the end. We create sustainable brands and/or followings based on honesty & integrity not only because we actually care about helping people, but also b/c we want to like the person we see in the mirror every single day. On the flip side, those who won’t think twice about selling their own soul for fame or money usually end up blowing up quickly, but also have a very short shelf life before imploding…..and they destroy their reputation in the process & are remembered forever for being liars or cheats. I actually feel bad for those people as they probably cringe every time they look in the mirror and aren’t very happy with what they’ve done or become just for some quick short term financial gains.
Wishing you a happy & healthy holiday & new year! 💪
@@TheRedJohnn 💯
To me the real reward is getting to more and more fully inhabit my real self. Many fakers do actually create a long-sustainable income. Not sure I'd want to live in that kind of head, heart, or body though.
Really, really enjoyed this talk Dave and co. Especially the part about the personal experience vs science and the rest of course. Keep it up Dave, your podcasts recently have been a joy to listen to.
Finally got around to watching. Thanks for hosting the podcast. It's good to have you guys all discussing lifting at the same time.
1:18:47 - I think Joe Delaney is someone who has stayed fairly lean all through his lifting career. I just watched his 10 year lifting video so that example is still fresh in my mind.
Great discussion. For the next round table if you are considering requests my request would be Steve Shaw and Fazlifts!
Here for Natural Hypertrophy
SUPER EXCITED FOR THIS COLLAB VID !
This was amazing! Need more of these please 🙏
Simply a joy to see all these natty fitness influencers sit down and talk, I feel spoilt.
NH and GVS should monetize. I don’t mind skipping the ads. NH could use the money to buy a heater for his garage.
Hah!
Loved the point of views, thanks guys!! 💪💪❤️❤️‼️
Yes ma’am :)
20:47 saving for later 😊
1:35:29
Great discussion! I didn’t realize you came to the same conclusion I did with respect to naturals bulking, but that was cool to hear you bring that up here. I left a comment on the bulking roundtable video about it. I just always wonder (since we don’t have studies on it, just tons and tons of anecdotes) could extremely impressive natural lifters have ever achieved their physiques without bulking like they had before? Even when some now preach against it? I just wonder if there’s some “potentiation” effect of getting bigger that then allows a natural’s body to hold more muscle than it would have ever otherwise been able to hold just “maingaining” their way up. Since I also have never seen an example of a great natural lifter who never overbulked at least once.
Great discussion guys. I’ve learned a lot from these guys over the years. I will say though that learned a lot from Dr. Mike (and I’m not enhanced).
Dr. Mike has plenty of great content :)
You guys aren’t as smart as I thought. Round Table? Nonsense. There’s four of you!! That’s clearly a square table!!! Thanks Gents. Great chat.
😅
this was recommended to me just under abel's roundtable from 5 days ago, i guess the algorithm really likes a roundtable
Ah yes, the great natty council. Just started watching, gonna be a great podcast!
Yio that was such a great podcast. Listen to hundreds of podcast and this one has to be one of my favorite ever. That was awesome. Thanks gents! So many great points and wisdom. That was actually awesome.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Man great conversation just spot on, natural bodybuilding is coming into focus, atlas is shrugging....for reps.
OG-round table. Was a nice talk.
and i thought my day could not get better, many thanks for the quality of guests
Always enjoy these round-tables even though I've left the natty world a few years back. Cheers!
We need an MMA match between Liver King and Netherbeast to determine who was the best faker
Jacked zoom class
This was so great.
For me the WHOLE problem with TH-cam & fitness is it shouldn't be the MAIN source of income if all ..
it would be mainly be about entertaining & educating people and finishing a project (the video) .. so the NH route is the in my opinion the WAY to go about things ..
u have a stable Job and TH-cam & fitness is something on the side u do to help others as a Charity ..
Because once it turns into the MAIN source of income people will use excuses like :
"Oh man i have bills to pay" , yes that's why it shouldn't be your ONLY or MAIN Job tho other wise will mostly have to sellout
____
But that's in a Perfect world tho where people don't just run mindlessly toward any $ putting everything else to the side .
Looking forward to diving into this
Sensational.
We are living in the golden era of the noble natties.
These dudes bout to end Liver Kings career for the second time
😂
who's the gymnast NH has talked about at the end called?
Marcus Touchais. You can watch him train in the french docu called "GYMNASTICS, THE SHADOW BEFORE LIGHT" available on TH-cam, timecode 25:00.
Bell talks in code about knowing that he's on gear. He said on the podcast when talking to his other guys that he has his own beliefs about the truth about the Liverking's PED use, but didn't want to get into it. Now you can argue that the easy way to avoid that uncomfortable situation of going after his guess would have just been not interviewing him, and I agree. But he never really fed into the "He's natural," part of the discussion. At least the stuff I heard.
When ethical discussion bring up the point: "Ah, but it's their business, so, like, whatever gets the clicks..." It *is* a signal that we live in a corrupt and corrupting system. I don't think the discussion should just stop there, like we have an unquestionable tenet of faith: "Thou must maximise profit". WHY must it be that way? And listing the historical shortcomings of other systems isn't an answer. We can use our creativity to find a better way without treating life like a multiple choice quiz to find the least-worst system.
Don’t get me wrong, not here to defend Mark Bell, but not sure his role here matters. Mark Bell has been a charlatan for years pushing anything that brings in a few bucks. When Mark Bell says something, it’s super educational in that you should probably assume the opposite.
Hah!
46:28 true. Your experience is your study
Was vegan gains the first one to popularise natty or nots?
hopefully you can have stand strength on. he's well spoken and has value to offer
Very excited for this!
Enjoy!
I feel like the main limitation of the majority of hypertrophy studies is that they are always using untrained individuals, which those people respond to everything. Plus the majority of people who train, don’t actually train HARD. Participants that had to train at RPE 7 are probably at RPE 3.
1:17:12 Geoff 😂
than instant disappointment when Abel says didn't stay there
ahahahh
😂😂
I see four wizards bearing gifts. Christmas has come early
What an amazing round table. Natty kings unite
NH army
49:03 I know who that is, Luke Tulloch, I made a post calling him out
Listening to these, i have to say, abel has have the best jokes from them all haha...also it appears to me he has some weird crush on NH or why is he talk so weird to him hahahah...i hope there will be episode two of this fitness drama gossip podcast
Well I will say that he is a handsome man...😂 - oh and thanks for the jokes portion, that made my day 💪💪
@@ssdabel a 210lbs french lad that likes nietzsche...those are rare for sure haha
The 4 horsemen
I forgot what this crowd called.
20:30
👑👑👑👑
I’m not sure about Ensema, he is fucking huge and is legit like 5-10lb off Mike O’hern
7:33 I've been calling out Nsima for years man. Since I've seen him beside Mike O'Hearn. Highly doubt he's natural.
NH is wrong here. Mark actually says that Mike O'Hearn and John Cena are natural...
Does he? I don’t follow Marc much but I figured he went along with Mike
Mark calls him Mike O'Tren just go along with the trolls... in a sarcastic way. Stan Efferding does the same and stated many times in different videos that O'Hearn is natural, mostly because of how big he was at 16, "never exploded, never got acnea", etc.
20:47 Frenchman arrested for kidnapping children
After all, French philosophers have an affinity for children.
Too many handsome men in one video.
32:33 LOL Abel
haha nobody noticed it 😂
coath blahino
NH saying you have to clickbait to push information to people...i dont think its a good argument, it will reinforce the clickbait trend even more...i would say there is a value in bringing back "real" thumbnails and channels like basement bodybuilding or yours seems to get more popular these days, even without doing that
the thing about TH-cam - i wanted to say this on the pod but didnt get to it eventually - is that you need to be pretty clever with how you're trying to clickbait. blatant clickbaiting doesnt work very well anymore, at least not nearly as much as it used to. I remember being this vegan chick (maybe she was the banana girl?) who had titles like, "I forced him to get sterylized" and whatnot, and the video would have nothing to do with it. that would get penalized heavily now and would never get a lot of views.
@@ssdabel lol yeah i remember that trend...its so dumb if you think about it...we are suppose to be the end of thousands of years of cultural evolution, right? The peak of human inteligence...Haha yeah ofc
once the bro started talking about bull livers, I was out
So, immediately
Let's cut mark some slack. He went to liverking's house not in their studio, he's too nice a guy & old school to do more than give the guy enough rope to screw himself. There's a big difference between challenging someone's lies in your studio vs calling someone a lier in their own house.
Liver king was still jacked 5 years ago
Is that Lazar Angelov in the bottom left window 🫡😁
Fantastic 4 😂😂😂