Tony McCarroll has really had the shit end of the wedge post Oasis. He was crucial to the sound of Definitely Maybe, he played it straight down the line, had good timing despite the propaganda to the contrary and hit hard as nails. If Noel hadn’t rubbished him in the press after he fired him he could’ve gone on to join any band.. instead of which he was labelled as damaged goods which I think is unforgivable. I think Noel is a great songwriter, a hilarious raconteur and a clever man but he did not do the right thing by Tony no question.
Yep, there was simply no need whatsoever for Noel to do that. It was bad enough that Tony was booted out of the band just before they became the biggest band in the world so why relentlessly kick him when he was down for years afterwards... Everything I've ever seen or read suggests that Tony was/is a really decent guy so just plain nasty behaviour on Noels part and for no apparent reason either.
Yes. I mean noel and tony got along as childhood friend, so i don't understand why he had to publicly slammed tony drumming skills. Let your friend get into another band if u not satisfied with his skills, instead of insulting him which probably made a lot of band lost interest to him.
Tony could've gone and joined another band, but he chose not to. Instead he "spent three years getting drunk" after Noel kicked him out. Then he tried suing them, further tarnishing his reputation. Then he tried forming a band in 2000 with his brothers, but gave up after several weeks. Can you really blame Noel at that point? And nothing stopped him from indulging into his *own* solo career, which Liam, Bonehead, Noel, and even Andy Bell have all done.
@@BackToBackJames Tony's reputation already ruined when noel publicly slammed his drumming skills. No way tony can easily join another band when his reputation is ruined.
@@anandante2576 Yes that might be part of it but it was definitely partly Tony's fault as well. Also do you know where Noel publicly slammed him? Genuinely curious I want to see what he said
Even though White was supposed to be a better drummer, McCarroll's drumming is far more iconic; the intros on Live Forever, Supersonic and Bring It On Down for example.
Noel wrote the drum intros for Live Forever and Bring It On Down - added to that, literally a monkey could play those beats. Nothing remotely iconic about them…
@@oasisfrommanchesteryes, pop, you know pop is simply short for popular right?. Oasis were extremely popular…. People also ask What does the pop in pop music stand for? popular Pop music is an abbreviation of the word 'popular. ' It's a contemporary form of music that appeals to a very wide audience. It often includes a danceable tempo, easy to remember lyrics, and simple notation. Pop music is commonly found on mainstream radio stations and across a range of countries and cultures
Tony McCarroll plays on Oasis' best album. Alan White plays on Oasis' second best album. Both men had what it took to deliver the goods and make two classic albums. Nuff said.
@@flamingcabbage8359 True. 'Some Might Say'. But he couldn't have played on 'Wonderwall', 'Don't look back in anger', 'Champagne Supernova'...or rather, he could have played much simpler drum parts.
Unpopular opinion: While Morning Glory with Tony on drums wouldn't have been anywhere near as good, Definitely Maybe with Alan would've been even worse.
Just not true mate. Alan White is a much more versatile drummer, he can rock hard, playing an excellent part of the power and be complimentary to softer songs. He's a much better drummer imo
Alan can rock hard when he’s given the material to do it with. It’s all to do with what Noel’s writing at the time. Champagne supernova at Earl’s Court is proof of that, I’ve never seen Tony play any song like that cause he couldn’t. Rock n roll star was good, But then I think Alan plays that better too. Also my generation live Alan rocks hard on that one too.
Alan White is a better drummer, but he's a professionally trained drummer. If you put all the other members of Oasis next to professional guitarists, bassists etc...we'd probably say the same thing about them.
@@sb6482 the sound that comes out might sound pretty good, but you would notice the difference with a professional singer. You may not like the sound that comes out with the professional singer but they would be a better singer. Noel puts this point perfectly when he says "i'm the better singer but Liam has the better voice".
As a musician of over 40 odd years and growing up through the early years of Oasis and beyond I never once questioned the drummers ability, didn't bat an eye lid to it until seeing these videos.
Tony just played simple beats which past Definitely Maybe, wouldn't have got anywhere. Tony was pushing his luck by getting to 95. Alan is a much more inventive drummer
Tony reminds me of drummers like Steven Adler, Phil Rudd, Clive Burr and even Peter Kriss - all replaced in their respective bands by technically better drummers but they had something that made the bands "sound".......
@@flamingcabbage8359 I was just thinking about Supersonic, Cigs & Alcohol and Live Forever on There & Then, and have realized how much I disagree with you :)
It's funny that Tony was, supposedly, kicked out for not being sufficiently virtuosic on the drums. When you consider NOBODY in Oasis was anywhere close to being a virtuoso on their preferred instrument. Plenty of guitarist's that would play circles around Noel and Bonehead, plenty of bassists play circles around guigsy, plenty of singers with better range and technicality than Liam. It's all besides the point, it worked because they were all great within the context of Oasis. Definitely Maybe will always be the definitive Oasis record because those group of people were the magic formula. Anyways, if you dig into the history of the band, it becomes apparent that Tony's firing was probably more to do with the fact that Noel simply didn't like Tony than anything else. By alot of account's from the day he was a solid enough drummer and Paul Gallagher even said he was a good dude as a person.
Apparently Guigsy also didn't get on well with Tony. They once nearly came to blows because Guigsy said that Tony was screwed when Noel put the firing clause in the bands contract. Tony's response was along the lines of 'at least I actually played on the album'.
I thought the whole beef was that Tony and Noel knew each from before they were in Oasis and in the early days Tony embarrassed noel (a small gaunt lad) in a fight once in front of his then girlfriend and so, from that day on Noel basically had him in his kill list. I believe this could be the real simpler truth, Noel was from the beginning cut throat, its the culture they came from. Noel got on top all the others, the bass player and bonehead super docile and we all know about noel and liam, so Tony was the outlier ..he didnt want to be under Noel, so as soon as Noel got the change to get rid of him, he did. "Simple as that"
the song definitely has more life to it when tony plays on it...part of that oasis appeal was that there was a rawness, a danger to it...that is completely missing with white...oasis DID NOT sound the same later on...its not about who is better, its about the sound you bring...thats why great musicians dont necessarily become big names...
well said. Exactly, it's the overall sound, not necessarily being better. Sometimes something ''off'' can sound better. Lots of Zep songs are out of time. If you quantize Bonham on Pro Tools, it sounds AWFUL! Motorhead another example. Animal was just about keeping in time, pushing. It sounded dangerous over the edge stuff. Mickey Dee is an amazing drummer technically, but kills that danger, and unexpectedness Motorhead had.
Tony is a good drummer, Alan is a great drummer. Doesnt matter if you're self taught or not, if you can play then you can play. Some just play better than others.
Everybody is treated unfairly by Noel...Noel thinks he's much better than he actually is, ask The Real People, Cook Da Books, and The La's...Oh, and The Beatles.
Tony McCarrol is so underrated. I'm not saying he's Neil Peart but there's a few drum intros that are up there with Rock n Roll by Les Zepplin or Mr Brownstone by GnR in terms of how recognisable they are. With any other drummer, they may never have made it.
To each there own. To me it sounds like he tried to learn how to play, realized it was never going to happen, and it's his first time back behind a kit in years. There is a reason it took the band longer just to get the drums laid down on Definitely Maybe than it did to record all of WTSMG. I think some people opinions may be a little clouded from the nostalgia of Definitely Maybe, which is completely understandable. That album means so much to many that it's really hard to imagine it any different.
I'm not sure he wrote the drums for Live Forever.. there's even early versions of LF with different drums takes and that intro was put by noel and mark
1 Walshypj well said, totally agree. Tony did a great job and was treat poorly by Noel. However, without Alan to help move the band forward musically they would’ve stagnated, What’s the Story would’ve been a cheap imitation of Definitely Maybe as those songs wouldn’t have come to with life Tony behind the kit (Wonderwall, DLIB, Cast No Shadow and Champagne Supernova in particular wouldn’t have been nearly the songs they were with Alan’s contributions to them). In short, all Oasis fan owe a massive debt of gratitude to both for their contributions, comparing them is meaningless.
This isn't about who is a better drummer. This is about who has that Oasis sound. That sound isn't polished and came from the mean middle class working streets of Manchester. I believe if they let Tony stick around he could have gotten better with time like all the band did. I'm really happy that Tony is getting his due and the accolades he justly deserves. Still love Oasis.
Exactly that is what rock and roll is all about, working class guys with a dream to make it big, original line up was the best, worked it all up from nothing, don't mess with the magic that made that original sound. 👍
Re: "I believe if they let Tony stick around he could have gotten better with time like all the band did". Had they carried on and made DM part 2, for sure. When you listen around (as I have, trying to *get* Tony in preparation for some cover videos), you hear his development through from say, Gleneagles 94 through to Sheffield 95. Yeah, I'm using "development" lightly (TMC didn't develop like LG did), like, he was always a bit ropey, but Sheffield is pretty consistent and his hand and foot techniques hold up over an arena PA. I simply look at him, and then Alan coming in, the same as I do Steven Adler and then Matt Sorum coming in in GNRs. The stadium gigs wouldn't have been what they were without the more polished replacements. People dig on Whitey for being a bit rat-a-tat, but from 2001 to the end he straightened up quite a bit and lessened the swing.
It's funny people always feel the need to pick sides. Apples vs Oranges, Dogs vs Cats, Beatles vs Stones, Oasis vs Blur, Liam vs. Noel and now Tony vs. Alan I somehow always had this strange ability to respect them different items equally. Havin' a preference from to time yes, but never felt the need to press one down to lift another up. They're both brilliant drummers in their own particular way, both had ups and downs, and both played some brilliant gigs and featured on some brilliant recordings.
With the advances in track seperation /stem splitting etc it would be incredible if someone got tony in a studio to record drums on some alan white era songs .... Just basicaly remove whiteys drum and let tony record have free reign on .... Hello , morning glory , my big mouth , champagne supernova ,swamp song fade in out .... Do you know what i mean .... Please, someone make it happen , tony would jump at the chance im sure , multiple episodes ... Whitey did some great stuff but personally think he didnt have the versatility to play the def maybe songs anywhere close to how tony did but for his limited style i think tony could of smashed all those tracks i mentioned , my big mouth recorded in 94 with tony would of been amazing , even more urgency
Absolutely nothing wrong with Tony's drums in any of the Oasis albums he recorded. Noel was constantly critical and drove him out the band because of personal clashes with Tony. Noel done the same thing with Liam.
Tony McCaroll had his own style which i thought was what made him so unique and defined the sound of Definitely Maybe, Alan White is jazz trained which adds on to Morning Glory sounding much more professional.
I respect to Tony with great take off until definitely maybe album, but i like Oasis more when with Alan on drum. The time Oasis become a world's britpop legend
@@roberttodd2414 I'd disagree with that..."Different Class" hadn't even come out yet. Over the course of '96 is really when it started to warp and then fade away, inspiring Blur to write "Death of a Party"
@@mywhychromosome true, but we are only talking a couple of years for the whole scene. but i should have put it like britpop was GOOD with definately maybe and remember it started with blur's modern life is rubbish , it peaked with the release of whats the story then tailed of as the album got big, but for me it kind of died on release cause i didnt think it was that good and knew what was coming, me seeing oasis at loch lomand was my farewell to britpop and oasis, it was now my mam and granny out there buying wonderwall not me and my cool teenage mates. different class is an outstanding record but pulp were always a bit of an anomaly and i think it came out the same time as wts anyway. it kind of depends whether you mean peaked in popularity or coolness and goodness, it was kind of wank when it was everywhere and just going on and on, i hated wonderwall on constant replay, tms sacking actually helped kill it for me, the battle of britpop 2 songs were awful,
@I talk to the living I reckon he means Alan’s a better drummer but he’d rather see Tony be in the band, like Bonehead vs Gem. I don’t know why though, Tony’s a bit of a spud if you ask me
No one give a fk about McCaroll then & hes only brought up now by 18-20 year olds because they felt sorry for him after watching supersonic. Alan White was more oasis than Tony. He was the OG but that doesn’t mean better or more apart of the group. Does anyone really think the OG Nirvana drummer who drummer on their first album bleach is more apart of the group than Dave Grohl?? No, sane applies. Alan will always be apart of the definitive line up.
Considering that both brothers were off there heads most of the time even whilst recording, it's a bit rich to bag Tony. Shame they ditched him, he definitely gave them that back beat.
Tony is better for me. More imaginative, original and moves more. I also like how he adds lots of fizz with his cymbal work, and he never bloats too much with the snare and kick. I think this suits the wall of guitars in Oasis better. Alan is maybe technically better, but he always locks down and pounds the snare too hard. Oasis always sounded a bit sludgey with him to me. Tony = punk rock. Alan = pub rock
Alan whites brilliant a technically superior drummer to tony. And wonderwall is what i would say is what sums up Alan white tony could never of played that.. But alan cant play the definitely maybe songs.. He can technically, but hes and none else after him has ever replicated the definitely maybe oasis vibe that only tony had... He belonged in oasis. People wonder why Oasis lost their way after denitley maybe and whats the story.. They became pop. And alans whites drumming was a huge effect.. Their slow ballad songs where great but their rock n roll oasis RAW vibe was lsot forever.. People wonder why.. Ill tell you why... Tony macaroll is why.
Tony would have been the best drummer on ALL THEIR ALBUMS no questions asked. I like self-taught and I like punk drummers and I don't like professionalism and I want to hear all post Def.Maybe albums to sound like Def.maybe I want the rough and the beats to be off... I don't care about professionalism. Alan White can go eat cake.
No doubt whatsoever that Tony is a great drummer. But when he butted heads with Noel, he was going out. As lovely a chap as Noel can be, he's got an angry, mean streak running through him. He can't forgive. He's said it himself (see Skavlan interview). Any mention Noel later made about Tony's ability to drum was justifying his earlier actions. It doesn't matter if Tony struggled with Bring it on Down. Who wouldn't? And in the end he did it spectacularly.
And people discredit tony for what he is. Hes almost as good as alan white. Those are really simple drum fills and rolls and i know an 18 year old punk drummer who does better than alan white. IM saying that alan is not any special.
Noel acknowledged that Tony was good live, he just struggled in the studio. But so did Guigsy, given he's apparently not on Definitely Maybe. They all lacked experience, and Alan had the professionalism they needed for their foray into mainstream, with Morning Glory. But Noel sacked everyone in the end, including Liam when he walked away in 2009, and Alan was no different. That's what makes him the Chief.
White had more finesse, was more controlled. But does that make him better? Remember this was oasis not Yes. Tony McCarroll plays this just as well, but maybe gives it a bit more welly. Let's face it, oasis never needed a professionally trained drummer. Remind me which music college the others went to.
The difference is that Alan has wide range of knowledge on the drums while Tony is obviously very limited. But Tony did come up with the Live Forever groove which is arguably the most recognisable Oasis drum pattern, so fair play
@@patrickmartens404 Really? I certainly wouldn’t call them complex but you recognise Live Forever, supersonic, bring it on down etc. straight away because of the drums, what else is really needed from a band that revolves around song/melody?
@@adambrennan579 Yeah, honestly that's a huge part of the early Oasis sound just in general, but it's exemplified by the drumming. "Supersonic" and it's opening is the perfect example. As a notable music writer once said, the sound "insists upon itself"--it's slow, deliberate, and primal, and demands you set yourself to it rather than the other way around. Just that 'boom-bap, boom-boom-bap, boom-boom-bap, boom-boom-bap', as the guitar scrapes, it's basically tuning you in to the feel of the whole thing, going "here it comes boys--get ready"
The only issue with this video is that it's Tony from now, not Tony back then. Tony is also aping Alan White's parts. It would be interesting to hear them each create a drum part for an Oasis song without hearing the other's.
The real difference is Tony played it raw and was original from northern working class stock who was self taught Alan white poncy middle class soft southern Nancy boy who got introductions because of who his brother knows I know where my vote goes
Whitey is always just half a beat behind on the drums, which gives him slightly more time for the fills. According to Marcus Tony was autisticly on the beat but only had 4 beats.
Noel is a shit guitarist compared to Brian May but the sound is right for the band...Its the same with McCarroll.Its why Definitely Maybe is really everyone's favourite Oasis album..if it was played on by session musicians it would never have that raw feel.Oasis weren't loved because of their excellent musicianship..it was the songs,the feel and the chemistry of Oasis that shone brightest.
Yep, but don't forget it all went to rat-shit when Noel decided to tone down the attitude and try to make Oasis some kind of earnest musical statement. Fucking yawn mun...
Tony is the better drummer by far. You notice the drums on every track on definitely maybe, they have character. You don't notice drums on any AW track as they are just in the background. None of it is memorable. it's just there. that's because Alan white is just a session musician. Session musician can play technically but don't have character. Oasis turned to turd the day they sacked TM facts. DM is the only true masterpiece they made.
@Richh-dt8yz you didn't read anything I wrote, technical drumming has nowt to do with being great. There are a million guitarists on youtube who are technically better than noel gallagher or Kurt cobain or whoever, but they are boring and don't have character so they will stay in the bedroom or at best be a session musician because they make you yawn. TM was always an exciting drummer, alan white bored me to tears
@@Richh-dt8yz now you are showing clearly are cluless. he was amazing man, go and check out the video of a quick one while hes away live at the rock n roll circus on here, and watch keith moon in action, and remember it's live...it's totally perfect and purely amazing and you can ask ANY drummer about that.. except obviously yourself apparently...
You cannot compare these two from the evidence presented here. The first clip is a live performance from the drummer, obviously taken recently. Whether he had that same level of competence in 1995/96 when the track was recorded is therefore questionable. The second clip is the drummer playing along at the same time we are hearing the recording, so it is impossible to know what 'studio tricks' may have been used to give the snare drum that deeper sound (for example).
Tony McCarroll is the reason why definitely Maybe sounds timeless. Alan White is the reason why What's The Story will always sound like 1995. And if there is a true Oasis sound, it's the former.
Alan White's sound is very mechanical; too "perfect". It's the "imperfections", that groove, that makes Tony McCarroll's sound much more interesting musically.
Tony was self taught while Alan had lessons. You gotta give him some credit, he did pretty well for someone who didn't have any lessons.
I don’t think the video is about who learnt the drums better
@@dondamon4669 Read the title again and then rethink what you just said
@@ElectronicPuffin its not about how they learn the drums, its about who is the better drummer.
Joey Jordison was self taught, so…..
Alan had talent.
Find the differences.
Tony McCarroll has really had the shit end of the wedge post Oasis. He was crucial to the sound of Definitely Maybe, he played it straight down the line, had good timing despite the propaganda to the contrary and hit hard as nails. If Noel hadn’t rubbished him in the press after he fired him he could’ve gone on to join any band.. instead of which he was labelled as damaged goods which I think is unforgivable. I think Noel is a great songwriter, a hilarious raconteur and a clever man but he did not do the right thing by Tony no question.
Yep, there was simply no need whatsoever for Noel to do that. It was bad enough that Tony was booted out of the band just before they became the biggest band in the world so why relentlessly kick him when he was down for years afterwards... Everything I've ever seen or read suggests that Tony was/is a really decent guy so just plain nasty behaviour on Noels part and for no apparent reason either.
Yes. I mean noel and tony got along as childhood friend, so i don't understand why he had to publicly slammed tony drumming skills. Let your friend get into another band if u not satisfied with his skills, instead of insulting him which probably made a lot of band lost interest to him.
Tony could've gone and joined another band, but he chose not to. Instead he "spent three years getting drunk" after Noel kicked him out. Then he tried suing them, further tarnishing his reputation. Then he tried forming a band in 2000 with his brothers, but gave up after several weeks. Can you really blame Noel at that point? And nothing stopped him from indulging into his *own* solo career, which Liam, Bonehead, Noel, and even Andy Bell have all done.
@@BackToBackJames Tony's reputation already ruined when noel publicly slammed his drumming skills. No way tony can easily join another band when his reputation is ruined.
@@anandante2576 Yes that might be part of it but it was definitely partly Tony's fault as well. Also do you know where Noel publicly slammed him? Genuinely curious I want to see what he said
Liam should bring Tony back only if just for a couple of numbers on his mega '24 gig schedule with John Squire.
For eg. He made Supersonic super.
Even though White was supposed to be a better drummer, McCarroll's drumming is far more iconic; the intros on Live Forever, Supersonic and Bring It On Down for example.
Alan drumming on Wonderwall, Dont look back in anger or Roll with it are more than iconic.
Noel wrote the drum intros for Live Forever and Bring It On Down - added to that, literally a monkey could play those beats. Nothing remotely iconic about them…
@@PincoPallino-d1o no they arent, they are totally dull, sounds like he's using brushes or something, crap man
@@roberttodd2414 Alan’s drumming was lost behind layers of guitar he didn’t suit the band at all
Yes mun! David Lee Roth was a shit singer, but he had an edge that was lost forever when he left Van Halen
It is not fair really to compare them. It is a trained professionell musician against a hobby musician who became a pop star.
POP? maybe punk rock star , hear bring it on down....
@@oasisfrommanchesteryes, pop, you know pop is simply short for popular right?. Oasis were extremely popular….
People also ask
What does the pop in pop music stand for?
popular
Pop music is an abbreviation of the word 'popular. ' It's a contemporary form of music that appeals to a very wide audience. It often includes a danceable tempo, easy to remember lyrics, and simple notation. Pop music is commonly found on mainstream radio stations and across a range of countries and cultures
It's totally fair to compare them. Lessons don't make someone good, uniqueness does.
Tony McCarroll plays on Oasis' best album. Alan White plays on Oasis' second best album. Both men had what it took to deliver the goods and make two classic albums. Nuff said.
It can also he vice versa with oasis best albums, depending on the mood
Best album is Morning Glory by a mile
I'm addicted to Morning Glory more.
Technically Tony plays on both
@@flamingcabbage8359 True. 'Some Might Say'. But he couldn't have played on 'Wonderwall', 'Don't look back in anger', 'Champagne Supernova'...or rather, he could have played much simpler drum parts.
Unpopular opinion: While Morning Glory with Tony on drums wouldn't have been anywhere near as good, Definitely Maybe with Alan would've been even worse.
Correct
Agreed
Yes Noel simplified the drum beats for them songs for Tony and I kinda like the songs simple they didn’t need to have a over the top drum beat
Definitely Maybe is a raw album, while Morning Glory is more clean and more produced, so yeah both drummers are great in their own business
I’m pretty sure Noel says how he wants the drums .... and what do you mean ‘even worse’?
Tony forever
If tony was still onboard. I think 3rd album be here now wpuldve rocked hard
Just not true mate. Alan White is a much more versatile drummer, he can rock hard, playing an excellent part of the power and be complimentary to softer songs. He's a much better drummer imo
Alan can rock hard when he’s given the material to do it with. It’s all to do with what Noel’s writing at the time. Champagne supernova at Earl’s Court is proof of that, I’ve never seen Tony play any song like that cause he couldn’t. Rock n roll star was good, But then I think Alan plays that better too. Also my generation live Alan rocks hard on that one too.
Alan White is a better drummer, but he's a professionally trained drummer. If you put all the other members of Oasis next to professional guitarists, bassists etc...we'd probably say the same thing about them.
Spot on...noels guitar playing is nothing to brag about but he does know how to write a tune though.
1995-1999 Liam Gallagher sings the pants of anyone in a ‘professionally trained’ environment.
@@sb6482 the sound that comes out might sound pretty good, but you would notice the difference with a professional singer. You may not like the sound that comes out with the professional singer but they would be a better singer. Noel puts this point perfectly when he says "i'm the better singer but Liam has the better voice".
@@sb6482 his technique is not great. Singing the way he was was unsubstainable
Professional just means you do it for a living. By that definition all of the members were professional musicians at some point
The audio is clearer on the second. They are both good drummers
both very average imo
Two wonderful drummers 🏴🤘🇬🇧
Tony all the way ...much like Peter Criss w/ KISS and Ringo with the Beatles....... The right drummers for the gig!
I don't mind TM on drums, there's something about the simplicity which is great. It's the same thing that made Mo Tucker great
As a musician of over 40 odd years and growing up through the early years of Oasis and beyond I never once questioned the drummers ability, didn't bat an eye lid to it until seeing these videos.
Same m8 !
Clearly not a very good musician then, are you?
Definitely like Tony better for the Oasis sound. Alan is the 'better' drummer, but Tony is the 'right' drummer.
Tony just played simple beats which past Definitely Maybe, wouldn't have got anywhere. Tony was pushing his luck by getting to 95. Alan is a much more inventive drummer
@@r2dan217 his drumming on Whatever was pretty good and similar to the above
Tony reminds me of drummers like Steven Adler, Phil Rudd, Clive Burr and even Peter Kriss - all replaced in their respective bands by technically better drummers but they had something that made the bands "sound".......
Tony had the venom
Someone else commented that and it blew me away
Tony all the way ...much like Peter Criss w/ KISS and Ringo with the Beatles....... The right drummers for the gig!
Alan was good for the oasis pop era, but Tony was perfect for when they were mean and LOUD and rockin
Agreed, DM with Alan would've been unlistenable
@@flamingcabbage8359 I was just thinking about Supersonic, Cigs & Alcohol and Live Forever on There & Then, and have realized how much I disagree with you :)
Loud and rockin? 🤦♂️🤣 remember WONDERWALL...dude!
@@oscarsamuelespinozalovera7909 Tony didn't play on Wonderwall... dude 🙄
@@dlovas read again dude!
Im just saying, Oasis was More bad-ass with alan at drumms.
Go on Tony!!!! Loves it 😌
It's funny that Tony was, supposedly, kicked out for not being sufficiently virtuosic on the drums. When you consider NOBODY in Oasis was anywhere close to being a virtuoso on their preferred instrument. Plenty of guitarist's that would play circles around Noel and Bonehead, plenty of bassists play circles around guigsy, plenty of singers with better range and technicality than Liam. It's all besides the point, it worked because they were all great within the context of Oasis. Definitely Maybe will always be the definitive Oasis record because those group of people were the magic formula. Anyways, if you dig into the history of the band, it becomes apparent that Tony's firing was probably more to do with the fact that Noel simply didn't like Tony than anything else. By alot of account's from the day he was a solid enough drummer and Paul Gallagher even said he was a good dude as a person.
Apparently Guigsy also didn't get on well with Tony. They once nearly came to blows because Guigsy said that Tony was screwed when Noel put the firing clause in the bands contract. Tony's response was along the lines of 'at least I actually played on the album'.
Well said. I think the only thing close to a virtuoso is Liam
@@t8br00k36Agree re: Liam. I’d suggest that Noel is a virtuoso songwriter, not guitarist.
I thought the whole beef was that Tony and Noel knew each from before they were in Oasis and in the early days Tony embarrassed noel (a small gaunt lad) in a fight once in front of his then girlfriend and so, from that day on Noel basically had him in his kill list.
I believe this could be the real simpler truth, Noel was from the beginning cut throat, its the culture they came from. Noel got on top all the others, the bass player and bonehead super docile and we all know about noel and liam, so Tony was the outlier ..he didnt want to be under Noel, so as soon as Noel got the change to get rid of him, he did. "Simple as that"
It’s not about how good you are technically, it’s about what the music calls for and what you choose to play.
the song definitely has more life to it when tony plays on it...part of that oasis appeal was that there was a rawness, a danger to it...that is completely missing with white...oasis DID NOT sound the same later on...its not about who is better, its about the sound you bring...thats why great musicians dont necessarily become big names...
well said. Exactly, it's the overall sound, not necessarily being better. Sometimes something ''off'' can sound better. Lots of Zep songs are out of time. If you quantize Bonham on Pro Tools, it sounds AWFUL! Motorhead another example. Animal was just about keeping in time, pushing. It sounded dangerous over the edge stuff. Mickey Dee is an amazing drummer technically, but kills that danger, and unexpectedness Motorhead had.
Tony is a good drummer, Alan is a great drummer. Doesnt matter if you're self taught or not, if you can play then you can play. Some just play better than others.
Personally i think Tony was treated unfairly by Noel.
Everybody is treated unfairly by Noel...Noel thinks he's much better than he actually is, ask The Real People, Cook Da Books, and The La's...Oh, and The Beatles.
Alan was also treated like shit by Noel.
Even Michael was too. Michael as in INXS.
@@johnny6476 McGee or White?
@@happyears21694 Alan White.
I'm glad tony's on some might say, Its a nice chance of pace on the record.
and probs the best track on the record, nuff said
Tony McCarrol is so underrated. I'm not saying he's Neil Peart but there's a few drum intros that are up there with Rock n Roll by Les Zepplin or Mr Brownstone by GnR in terms of how recognisable they are. With any other drummer, they may never have made it.
But he plays like a high school kid tho.
@@ebaybasuki 😂
With that last point, I completely disagree with yoy
To each there own. To me it sounds like he tried to learn how to play, realized it was never going to happen, and it's his first time back behind a kit in years. There is a reason it took the band longer just to get the drums laid down on Definitely Maybe than it did to record all of WTSMG. I think some people opinions may be a little clouded from the nostalgia of Definitely Maybe, which is completely understandable. That album means so much to many that it's really hard to imagine it any different.
@@kdub7195 I think I was getting at that he’s recognisable. Technically speaking, he’s not great but you know it’s him when you hear it.
Tony is a good drummer, theres nothing like live forever intro
I'm not sure he wrote the drums for Live Forever.. there's even early versions of LF with different drums takes and that intro was put by noel and mark
i an alan white fan
but definitely maybe needed tony
as much as whats the story needed alan
1 Walshypj well said, totally agree. Tony did a great job and was treat poorly by Noel. However, without Alan to help move the band forward musically they would’ve stagnated, What’s the Story would’ve been a cheap imitation of Definitely Maybe as those songs wouldn’t have come to with life Tony behind the kit (Wonderwall, DLIB, Cast No Shadow and Champagne Supernova in particular wouldn’t have been nearly the songs they were with Alan’s contributions to them). In short, all Oasis fan owe a massive debt of gratitude to both for their contributions, comparing them is meaningless.
@@RobTaylorDrums Bravo, that was well said! 👏
I can't agree more so!
Tony was pure lad punk energy. Alan was all about smoothness and finesse.
This isn't about who is a better drummer. This is about who has that Oasis sound. That sound isn't polished and came from the mean middle class working streets of Manchester. I believe if they let Tony stick around he could have gotten better with time like all the band did. I'm really happy that Tony is getting his due and the accolades he justly deserves. Still love Oasis.
Exactly that is what rock and roll is all about, working class guys with a dream to make it big, original line up was the best, worked it all up from nothing, don't mess with the magic that made that original sound. 👍
Re: "I believe if they let Tony stick around he could have gotten better with time like all the band did". Had they carried on and made DM part 2, for sure. When you listen around (as I have, trying to *get* Tony in preparation for some cover videos), you hear his development through from say, Gleneagles 94 through to Sheffield 95. Yeah, I'm using "development" lightly (TMC didn't develop like LG did), like, he was always a bit ropey, but Sheffield is pretty consistent and his hand and foot techniques hold up over an arena PA. I simply look at him, and then Alan coming in, the same as I do Steven Adler and then Matt Sorum coming in in GNRs. The stadium gigs wouldn't have been what they were without the more polished replacements. People dig on Whitey for being a bit rat-a-tat, but from 2001 to the end he straightened up quite a bit and lessened the swing.
Tony pissed after a few, pulled up on stage to play a song he never played on still sounds more Oasis than White.
I prefer Tony’s drumming on this - it’s more punk, less tippy-tappy.
I hope Tony is doing okay and still drumming. 👍
You can’t compare the two, Oasis are not a punk band. And DLBIA is definitely not a punk song.
He had a heart attack a few months ago. Swear to god
Spot on
LOL
Tony played on some might say and Acquiesce too
Tony Mc Carroll!
It's funny people always feel the need to pick sides. Apples vs Oranges, Dogs vs Cats, Beatles vs Stones, Oasis vs Blur, Liam vs. Noel and now Tony vs. Alan
I somehow always had this strange ability to respect them different items equally. Havin' a preference from to time yes, but never felt the need to press one down to lift another up.
They're both brilliant drummers in their own particular way, both had ups and downs, and both played some brilliant gigs and featured on some brilliant recordings.
As much as I liked whitey back there, this right here, Tony has more feel. Not saying better (tho I feel it is) but way more feel.
With the advances in track seperation /stem splitting etc it would be incredible if someone got tony in a studio to record drums on some alan white era songs .... Just basicaly remove whiteys drum and let tony record have free reign on .... Hello , morning glory , my big mouth , champagne supernova ,swamp song fade in out .... Do you know what i mean .... Please, someone make it happen , tony would jump at the chance im sure , multiple episodes ... Whitey did some great stuff but personally think he didnt have the versatility to play the def maybe songs anywhere close to how tony did but for his limited style i think tony could of smashed all those tracks i mentioned , my big mouth recorded in 94 with tony would of been amazing , even more urgency
Absolutely nothing wrong with Tony's drums in any of the Oasis albums he recorded.
Noel was constantly critical and drove him out the band because of personal clashes with Tony.
Noel done the same thing with Liam.
To be honest, I can't really hear any big of a difference. If anything Tony is more raw and powerful I'd say.
Tony McCaroll had his own style which i thought was what made him so unique and defined the sound of Definitely Maybe, Alan White is jazz trained which adds on to Morning Glory sounding much more professional.
I respect to Tony with great take off until definitely maybe album, but i like Oasis more when with Alan on drum. The time Oasis become a world's britpop legend
oasis was britpop legend with definately maybe, when wtsmg came out britpop was pretty much on the way out
@@roberttodd2414 I'd disagree with that..."Different Class" hadn't even come out yet. Over the course of '96 is really when it started to warp and then fade away, inspiring Blur to write "Death of a Party"
@@mywhychromosome true, but we are only talking a couple of years for the whole scene. but i should have put it like britpop was GOOD with definately maybe and remember it started with blur's modern life is rubbish , it peaked with the release of whats the story then tailed of as the album got big, but for me it kind of died on release cause i didnt think it was that good and knew what was coming, me seeing oasis at loch lomand was my farewell to britpop and oasis, it was now my mam and granny out there buying wonderwall not me and my cool teenage mates. different class is an outstanding record but pulp were always a bit of an anomaly and i think it came out the same time as wts anyway. it kind of depends whether you mean peaked in popularity or coolness and goodness, it was kind of wank when it was everywhere and just going on and on, i hated wonderwall on constant replay, tms sacking actually helped kill it for me, the battle of britpop 2 songs were awful,
Tony every day of the week .
In terms of drumming, it would be Alan, but for the Line up it was Tony McCarroll.
@I talk to the living I reckon he means Alan’s a better drummer but he’d rather see Tony be in the band, like Bonehead vs Gem. I don’t know why though, Tony’s a bit of a spud if you ask me
Whitey is so classy. A blend between Motown and Led Zeppelin.
Say what you say Tony is spot on.
Tony was the original drummer. Alan was the Oasis drummer. Both were Oasis.
No one give a fk about McCaroll then & hes only brought up now by 18-20 year olds because they felt sorry for him after watching supersonic. Alan White was more oasis than Tony. He was the OG but that doesn’t mean better or more apart of the group. Does anyone really think the OG Nirvana drummer who drummer on their first album bleach is more apart of the group than Dave Grohl?? No, sane applies. Alan will always be apart of the definitive line up.
Considering that both brothers were off there heads most of the time even whilst recording, it's a bit rich to bag Tony.
Shame they ditched him, he definitely gave them that back beat.
Tony is better for me. More imaginative, original and moves more. I also like how he adds lots of fizz with his cymbal work, and he never bloats too much with the snare and kick. I think this suits the wall of guitars in Oasis better. Alan is maybe technically better, but he always locks down and pounds the snare too hard. Oasis always sounded a bit sludgey with him to me. Tony = punk rock. Alan = pub rock
I’m sure he’s a nice bloke but there is nothing remotely imaginative about Tony’s playing.
Alan white is the best oasis drummer 110%
Alan whites brilliant a technically superior drummer to tony. And wonderwall is what i would say is what sums up Alan white tony could never of played that.. But alan cant play the definitely maybe songs.. He can technically, but hes and none else after him has ever replicated the definitely maybe oasis vibe that only tony had... He belonged in oasis.
People wonder why Oasis lost their way after denitley maybe and whats the story.. They became pop. And alans whites drumming was a huge effect.. Their slow ballad songs where great but their rock n roll oasis RAW vibe was lsot forever.. People wonder why.. Ill tell you why... Tony macaroll is why.
Tony reminds me of Dave Krusen. Same soft touch.
Tony would have been the best drummer on ALL THEIR ALBUMS no questions asked. I like self-taught and I like punk drummers and I don't like professionalism and I want to hear all post Def.Maybe albums to sound like Def.maybe
I want the rough and the beats to be off... I don't care about professionalism. Alan White can go eat cake.
In other words you prefer rust over gold, or shit over roses. They should study your brain.
Always preferred the band with TM
Oasis drummers:
Tony McCarroll
Alan White
Steve White
Zak Starkey
Chris Sharrock.
Not bad at all!
The difference is that Alan is playing Tony's parts. You can never beat the original ,
Tonys playing is a bit more gritty. Alan's is a lot smoother and polished. Oasis kinda lost part of there sound when Tony got the boot.
You also have to remember Alan had all those years of experience drumming with Yes under his belt.
Uh...ya...wrong guy
@@ffedor77 you think 😂
where is Pete bests version?
Alan. No question
Both.
No doubt whatsoever that Tony is a great drummer. But when he butted heads with Noel, he was going out. As lovely a chap as Noel can be, he's got an angry, mean streak running through him. He can't forgive. He's said it himself (see Skavlan interview). Any mention Noel later made about Tony's ability to drum was justifying his earlier actions. It doesn't matter if Tony struggled with Bring it on Down. Who wouldn't? And in the end he did it spectacularly.
Team tony
And people discredit tony for what he is. Hes almost as good as alan white. Those are really simple drum fills and rolls and i know an 18 year old punk drummer who does better than alan white. IM saying that alan is not any special.
Noel acknowledged that Tony was good live, he just struggled in the studio. But so did Guigsy, given he's apparently not on Definitely Maybe.
They all lacked experience, and Alan had the professionalism they needed for their foray into mainstream, with Morning Glory.
But Noel sacked everyone in the end, including Liam when he walked away in 2009, and Alan was no different. That's what makes him the Chief.
Have TWO Drummers 👊😎
Alan is a superb drummer ! But I would luv to hear his brother Steves version lol , I actually prefer Tony’s version here 😂
White had more finesse, was more controlled. But does that make him better? Remember this was oasis not Yes. Tony McCarroll plays this just as well, but maybe gives it a bit more welly. Let's face it, oasis never needed a professionally trained drummer. Remind me which music college the others went to.
Well. Oasis paid the price. They were never as vital sounding after Tony.
tony
Ok, let’s let Steve White take a whack at it.
Tonyyyyy
Tony
Tony is more rock n roll than
The difference is that Alan has wide range of knowledge on the drums while Tony is obviously very limited. But Tony did come up with the Live Forever groove which is arguably the most recognisable Oasis drum pattern, so fair play
I always thought those drums sounded like a drum machine with one simple beat - very unimaginative.
@@patrickmartens404 Really? I certainly wouldn’t call them complex but you recognise Live Forever, supersonic, bring it on down etc. straight away because of the drums, what else is really needed from a band that revolves around song/melody?
@@adambrennan579 Yeah, honestly that's a huge part of the early Oasis sound just in general, but it's exemplified by the drumming. "Supersonic" and it's opening is the perfect example. As a notable music writer once said, the sound "insists upon itself"--it's slow, deliberate, and primal, and demands you set yourself to it rather than the other way around. Just that 'boom-bap, boom-boom-bap, boom-boom-bap, boom-boom-bap', as the guitar scrapes, it's basically tuning you in to the feel of the whole thing, going "here it comes boys--get ready"
Wrong - Noel came up with that intro for Live Forvever.
The only issue with this video is that it's Tony from now, not Tony back then. Tony is also aping Alan White's parts. It would be interesting to hear them each create a drum part for an Oasis song without hearing the other's.
The real difference is
Tony played it raw and was original from northern working class stock who was self taught
Alan white poncy middle class soft southern Nancy boy who got introductions because of who his brother knows
I know where my vote goes
Whitey is always just half a beat behind on the drums, which gives him slightly more time for the fills. According to Marcus Tony was autisticly on the beat but only had 4 beats.
Tony McCarroll's 'Classical Gas'
Noel is a shit guitarist compared to Brian May but the sound is right for the band...Its the same with McCarroll.Its why Definitely Maybe is really everyone's favourite Oasis album..if it was played on by session musicians it would never have that raw feel.Oasis weren't loved because of their excellent musicianship..it was the songs,the feel and the chemistry of Oasis that shone brightest.
Yep, but don't forget it all went to rat-shit when Noel decided to tone down the attitude and try to make Oasis some kind of earnest musical statement. Fucking yawn mun...
I think their both perfect 90s oasis drummers and i couldnt give 2 fucks what anyone says.
Pity Noel didn't concentrate more on his own musical limitations
Tony is the better drummer by far. You notice the drums on every track on definitely maybe, they have character. You don't notice drums on any AW track as they are just in the background. None of it is memorable. it's just there. that's because Alan white is just a session musician. Session musician can play technically but don't have character. Oasis turned to turd the day they sacked TM facts. DM is the only true masterpiece they made.
Sorry lad and I’m sure Tony is a nice guy but there is simply no way he’s a better drummer. Speak to any drummer and they will say the same.
@Richh-dt8yz you didn't read anything I wrote, technical drumming has nowt to do with being great. There are a million guitarists on youtube who are technically better than noel gallagher or Kurt cobain or whoever, but they are boring and don't have character so they will stay in the bedroom or at best be a session musician because they make you yawn. TM was always an exciting drummer, alan white bored me to tears
@@Richh-dt8yz any way mate alan white is hardly keith moon is he, he's boring man, like really boring, this is rock n roll mate
@@roberttodd2414 Keith Moon had a style for sure but he’s no yardstick to compare others by.
@@Richh-dt8yz now you are showing clearly are cluless. he was amazing man, go and check out the video of a quick one while hes away live at the rock n roll circus on here, and watch keith moon in action, and remember it's live...it's totally perfect and purely amazing and you can ask ANY drummer about that.. except obviously yourself apparently...
Compare Noel to a proper guitarist, the difference would be stark.
im not a drummer but Tonys version had more feel
I am a drummer, But sorry can’t agree. Alan has tons more feel.
Yep and it shows with that comment 😜
Anyone who says that Alan was more pop than rock, Obviously never heard him play champagne supernova at Earl’s Court then.
Agreed.
Ina big way Tony McCarrol gave Definitely Maybe it’s balls 🤷 Heavy & Simplistic borderline
You cannot compare these two from the evidence presented here. The first clip is a live performance from the drummer, obviously taken recently. Whether he had that same level of competence in 1995/96 when the track was recorded is therefore questionable. The second clip is the drummer playing along at the same time we are hearing the recording, so it is impossible to know what 'studio tricks' may have been used to give the snare drum that deeper sound (for example).
What a load of bollocks! 🤣
Tony, Alan and Zak should do an album together.
How would that work? None of them are singers or songwriters.
@@BackToBackJames Neither is Ed Sheeren, your point? Honestly, bang a few chords together, who cares. :D
@@larryalexander900 Well in that case, I agree with you!
I have no doubts that Morning Glory would have been any less great if Tony was never kicked out
No time for that if you're unable to play the drum beats Noel required.
por qué todos los bateristas son pelados
That was good, hes had 25 years to learn it👍
Pete Best vs Ringo Starr
Alan White is sauce. One of the best things about Oasis, without a doubt.
Poor Tommy
Tony McCarroll is the reason why definitely Maybe sounds timeless. Alan White is the reason why What's The Story will always sound like 1995. And if there is a true Oasis sound, it's the former.
They did the sane shit to alan white
👍
Alan was way better, but he changed a lot of definitely maybe songs too much live. Still the much better drummer, and probably a nicer guy
Alan’s ghost notes are the oasis sound that will live forever.
Alan white it's right man c'mon !!!!
I think Tony was a solid drummer but Alan was the next level up at the time and remains Oasis' best drummer
Alan White's sound is very mechanical; too "perfect". It's the "imperfections", that groove, that makes Tony McCarroll's sound much more interesting musically.