I have a newer model 70 feather weight in .308 with the pre64 style action. That gun shoots 3 shot groups under an inch more often than not many times with all 3 rounds touching. However once my barrel heats up my shots do start to string in a vertical line straight up. Once my barrel cools it comes right back to zero. I usually fire 3 shot groups because it’s a deer rifle and I’ve never fired more than 3 rounds at one time.
And after I finished this video and went back and watched it I realized I made a big mistake on that part. When I said shots in a straight line are the shooter and not the equipment. It's actually usually the opposite. When the shooter is inconsistent the shots are random with fliers. It takes a special cause to shoot in straight lines and it's usually the equipment. And it's usually exactly what you just said which is the barrel heating up and touching wood somewhere. Shots stringing to the left would be the barrel touching the stock on the right hand side. Shots to the right is the barrel touching on the left. And shots stringing up is the barrel touching on the bottom. My first group in a straight line from the Westerner wasn't stringing. One shot was left of the first shot and the second shot was right of it. But the 2nd group out of the Westerner and the group from the Featherweight that was in a straight line both were stringing with the point of impact moving left to right. Which is very curious and something I'll want to talk about really soon. Thanks for mentioning that!
If you are sure your barrel is free floated 99% of the time the vertical string is powder charge and the horizontal string is a stable powder charge and a seating depth the rifle dosent care for. I have found always if I get a straight horizontal spread I seat the bullet 10 tho deeper over 20 tho and it will almost always come right in to a tight lil group
@@terrycalvert7812 from my experience seating depth is a wave. From what I’ve seen you should seat deeper in .003 increments to find a node. Seating .01 deeper skips over 3 possible depths that could fine tune that charge.
@@linemen71 I try to save components I jump ten tho a time then when I find the best of those I work either way in 2 tho increments until I find the best node loading all those rounds in 3 tho jumps over what could be 100 tho is a lot of components and barrel life that could have been saved by starting with bigger jumps then fine tuning from there but reloading is one of those things everyone has there preferred way with the way things have been the last year I try and conserve all that I can
@@terrycalvert7812 I’m sure you’ll find the data you need well before that. normally you’ll see it from less then .015 that’s only 5 loading with 3 shot groups
This video is a gem. Not because of the great groups, and they were great. Because the information about the mistakes made are the real gem. The sling studs hitting the bag is a hard lesson I learned.
I have been watching your videos for a few weeks and one thing stands out, honesty. Honestly I believe your videos are the best out there because of honesty. I have taken many a deer with the model 70 in .270 and it is an iconic hunting rifle. Today I do most if not all my hunting with the mauser mo3 in 6.5x55 and .270. Hunting rifles become a very personal item like a dog or a nice car so its important that the relationship between the owner and the rifle is good.
I have a 1973 model 70 in 30-06 nib I think I paid 300.00 it over 20 years ago and I really have got to see what she can do it’s beauty jeweled bolt checkered stock love the old winchesters especially the lever action! Thanks for posting it’s given me the bug to shoot mine finally :) PS love the sound of the peepers in the background up here in Mass that’s the sign for me to get the fishing gear dusted off and go after the Trout another month to go!
I'm getting for the large mouth bass right now! And that sounds like a really nice model 70. I have to say you have shown more patience than myself going this long without trying it out!
I have 80s model 70 in. A 270 with the boss. On it. Nice looking guns I have nice walnut stock on mine. But never have taken it deer hunting. Thought I might go out west and hunt elk with it but that never happened either. But. I love the old gun. Wouldn't get rid of it. Just. So nice. Reminds me of jack Oconner. I have that old book. It was written about the time I was born. But it still is very applicable. Today as it was then,,,,,,,
Just found your channel a couple weeks ago. I’ve enjoyed every video I’ve watched so far. Looking forward to future videos and this channel growing. You definitely deserve it!! Dream rifles by the way!
I love the model 70’s and have a small collection of them, in my eye they’re the quintessential hunting rifle! My current favorite is a 2019 Dark Maple featherweight in .270 win. Lots of people assume that higher velocity is better, but… only if it’s practical and serves the purpose of the rifle and hunter using it. I appreciate that you explained that in this video! My thumbs up! God bless you and good luck with both of these rifles!
My dads totally original 1949 m70 in 270 with handloads will shoot 1/2 groups at 100yds. I have shot over a dozen pre-64 M70's and they all were sub 1 inch except for a beautiful 1955 243 featherweight which was at over 2 inches.
I don't think these old rifles get near enough credit for being as accurate as they are. And it's not that they are accurate compared to old rifles. They are accurate compared to anything else out there and more accurate than most.
Being a big Winchester M70 fan, I've been watching your M70 related videos and have to say that they are extremely interesting & informative. Thanks Tom for all your insights !!
The GoPro will have a corrupt video sometimes. A odd icon will show up where the video cam icon is on the GoPro. If your file is corrupted when you look at it on your computer. You can sometimes put the card back in the GoPro and turn it on. That odd icon that looks like a bandaid will appear. Press any button on the GoPro and it will repair that file. Then you can watch it. I have had that problem too, especially if the GoPro over heats.
Feet position and crab claw for the finger, wide base for your feet, and no contact with the booger picker (trigger finger) past the palm pad of it. Those two things help me the most. Dry fire for a few minutes before hand too, maybe not that sweet pre 64 but the newer rifle heck yeah! I love this video, an honest shooter can be a good shooter
I have many firearms with no real story behind them, but the ones with a good story behind them will be the last ones to go when and if I ever reach that age that I start to sell them off. I love the story behind your Featherweight. It would be in my collection till the end.
It would be the 3rd from the last to go. I have an old Lee Enfield and an FN49 that are both really special to me for sentimental reasons. But those 3 will be with me with me until the end, or just before it. And like yourself I do love firearms with a story to them!
If you keep shooting those M70 .270 rifles, people will start calling you Jack! Don't forget to try Jack's standard .270 load. Maximum charge of H4831 with a 130gr spitzer. Looking forward to the next video.
You would probably find that getting that front rest well behind the front sling swivel stud helpful. It is hard to find consistency dragging that stud over the front bag.
And you are spot on with that suggestion Chuck. I even mentioned that later in this video or the next one that I noticed I was getting sloppy in my fundamentals including not having the sling studs out in front of the bag when I watched the video of me shooting.
Beautiful rifles. I love the Winchester rifles over any other. A flattened primer is not necessarily a sign of pressure. It is also a sign of low pressure. First group primer _______ next group rounded edges now group getting to max if not on max flattened and creators. Gone to far. Good video lots of good information.
Thanks Blayne. I was just being a little overly cautious with that being a new powder and it had one heck of a large starting charge. The max charge was well into mag territory at 64.9gr.
Interesting results with two different rifles and matching loads. Have to give you credit Tom, you shot well despite dealing with cameras and batteries to make a video and still focus on fundamentals as well as you did. For me, my range time, I have to leave my mobile phone in my car to avoid distractions as much as possible. As much as I prefer older guns, I think modern metallurgy and CNC machining makes modern rifles shoot as well as hand fitted, hand machining in many cases. At least with consistency. Great video Tom. Thanks.
Thanks Stephen. I agree about the modern rifles being more consistent, but honestly I'm starting to question everything I thought I knew about older rifles. There's always the potential to buy an older rifle with a shot out barrel. There's also some designs in the past that made rifles more finicky for example the stocks on the standard model pre64 model 70's had a screw in front of the magazine that attaches the stock to the barrel of the rifle like the action screws and that would have to mess with harmonics on some rifles. But other than certain things like that I think these old rifles hold up just fine to our modern standards? I haven't fooled with enough of them to know but I'm constantly surprised by the few I have messed with.
Thanks, and i just checked out your channel. You have a great presence in front of the camera and I love that you're taking a family approach. I'm hoping to add some fishing to my channel this spring as well.
@@MisterBrewer Mine is a work in progress as well! I'm amazed at how much better my videos are than when I started but I also see something that I could improve in every video. I guess over time and with experience they just get better? Or at least I sure hope they do! And I have no idea how I'm going to approach the fishing videos? It's not easy to make fishing interesting on video. I've already done a couple of them but I never posted them just because I still have so much to learn about that. As for you, just keep doing what you're doing and it will come together for you.
I appreciate your honesty and good nature in the wrap up you had at the end of this video. Working on load development is a process, and sometimes there are sessions where things get thrown off getting to accomplish what is desired in a single session. At the same time, it's important to always remember we do this because we enjoy it, and any bad day at the range is more enjoyable than sitting at home. I've lost some confidence in the type of chronograph you're using. I've found if the bullet does not travel precisely over the same position over the eyes, the velocity will vary. In my quest for finding little tiny extreme spreads, I found part of it was changing to a different tool to measure velocity. ymmv.
Thanks, and I've looked at the magnetos and I have thought hard about that. At the moment I think you get much more accurate velocities from the magnetospeeds but less accurate shot groups because it does alter harmonics. With the old chronos you get less accurate velocities but true shot groups. If I were doing extreme long range shooting then without question i would go with the magnetos because accurate standard deviations are more important than more accurate shot groups. And you can always go back and verify the shot group without the magneto. But for the distances I'm shooting I just need a good ball park number for my velocities and a good zero. But later on I will be trying a magnetospeed just to experiment with it.
Right now the pre 64. It's lighter but still great accuracy. And the new basis really made a difference as far as cheek weld and scope position. When I shoulder that rifle as soon as I throw it up it's on target. But I'm going to put the same bases on the Westerner this week and see what they do for that one.
What calibers are each of the 70s? Just curious, might of missed it if you did say in video. Just wanna say I've learned things off of every video I've watched so far, some little things some huge. So thanks for some probably just basics that I was never taught over the years or overlooked or I just never picked up. So just wanna say thanks
Thank you very much for that Paul. And both are chambered in .270 Winchester. I talked about both in previous videos being in .270 and it's funny but after I talk about a rifle in one video I just assume everyone already knows that in the next video and forget to mention little things like what a rifle is chambered in. It just doesn't enter my mind while doing a video that not everyone has seen the previous videos. I only think about that after the video is finished. LOL
BTW…I do own 2 Model 70’s. Mine chambered in .270 supergrade and the one I bought for my wife chambered in .243, featherweight (of course I’m the person shooting it).
The model 70 is a shooter always has been. My super grade maple 264 win when I did load development I shot 15 rounds over 5 grains of powder into one group that measured 1.12 inches. That says a lot about the rifle and the hand loaded bullets. The load I loaded for that rifle shoots all 3 or all 5 into one hole every time I shoot that gun. Iv never owned a rifle shoots as good as it does and does it every single time with a max charge of IMR 8133. Most of my rifles and consistent .5 moa rifles but that’s the only one is a consistent low 1s rifle.
Thanks Tom, another great video, personally I could not shoot and put up with the distractions of the camera etc. Too much for this old mind to deal with. Still you cant complain about the groups from either rifle. Now when I shot I always had a rifle that actually felt better, kind of like old shoes. So I have to ask, which one feels better? If ya take the pre 64 kinda being the "holy grail" out of it....which one "feels" better?
Without a doubt the pre '64 felt better. During recoil both rifles had a little punch to them. Nothing bad but they felt the same on recoil and they shouldn't have. The Westerner is at least 1lb heavier and should have been smoother. But I am shooting a lighter load on the Featherweight so maybe that's why they feel the same? But as far as how it feels just shouldering the rifle and getting on target that Featherweight is perfect, but part of that is the bases. I couldn't believe the difference those bases made. They got the scope down another 1/8 of an inch and the cheek weld is outstanding on the featherweight. Plus I can get the scope further back with those bases and every time I shouldered that rifle it's just on target and like you said it felt like "old shoes". I'm going to change the bases on the Westerner and then see how it compares to the featherweight after that?
The pre '64 was definitely a better fit but it was mainly because of the new bases. They actually made that much of a difference. I'm going to change the basis on the Westerner to the same Warne bases and see how that works out. In fact I'm going to probably do a video just on that? The difference between the new bases and old ones were night and day. Other than that both rifles felt the same. And that's some of the things I want to go over when I compare them in more depth. I've been really impressed with the the pre64. It has everything you would want in a modern rifle including an adjustable trigger that is as crisp as it can be.
IMR 4064 130's and IMR 4350 for the 150's. Foul the barrel first before load testing, and keep it fouled for deer season. You should bed and free float the barrel to eliminate the two
Great video and I think you’ve found your loads! I agree that finding loads can be a process, especially when the nut that holds the stock is having an off day...
Tom, I enjoyed the video. I am a 270 enthusiast myself. I've killed a lot of deer with mine. I would think with that lighter barrel on the featherweight that your third shots and following would be fliers due to heat.
That's getting into a lot of stuff that I just don't fully understand yet. I've heard exactly what you just described most of my life about the Featherweight barrels. And i have a 2013 Featherweight in 7x57 that the first 2 shots would touch each other and the 3rd and 4th were always flyers and my first thought was exactly what you said especially after hearing that for so many years. Then one day just out of curiosity I checked the gap between the barrel and stock because it was a free floated barrel and sure enough there was almost no clearance in one section. I removed a little wood and never had another flyer. The barrel on the 1960 Featherweight isn't free floated and the action isn't bedded but the stock is fitted extremely well to the rifle. You would think that just the barrel heating up without being free floated would cause problems no matter what taper barrel but back in the 70's when a lot of people bedded actions they also bedded the forend of the stock to the barrel and many of those rifles were tack drivers. And they purposely bedded them that way to improve accuracy. The 1980's XTR Featherweight were bedded from the factory the entire length of the barrel channel as well and many of those were tackdrivers. So why didn't that throw off accuracy and produce flyers as the barrels heated up? I don't think the Featherweight barrels themselves produce flyers just because they are lighter barrels, but I think there is a lot going on that we don't fully understand yet about why some rifles just shoot great when they shouldn't and why some don't shoot when they should? I've always heard model 94's aren't accurate because of the barrel bands and forend and so on. I got a model 94 in 30-30 for Christmas when I was 10 years old and it shot just like you would expect a m94 to shoot at 100 yards, not great. The next year i got a 4x scope and a side mount, went to the range, and all of my bullets were toughing. And that was with factory ammo, a fixed 4x scope, and an 11 year old behind the trigger. I think the Featherweight barrels just got blamed for flyers because people just didn't know what else to blame it on? And we still don't.
My dads totally original 1949 m70 in 270 with handloads will shoot 1/2 groups at 100yds. I have shot over a dozen pre-64 M70's and they all were sub 1 inch except for a beautiful 1955 243 featherweight which was at over 2 inches.
I have just bought a m70 super grade in 375h&h, it's a cabelas limited edition 1 of 200. Do you have any idea where I would be able to find out more info on it? I cant find a email address for winchester and waiting to hear back from cabelas, any other suggestions? Just discovered your channel and love it so far, I am loading ammo and watching you shoot with your Winchester's.
Nice rifle! If you call Winchester customer service and give them your serial number they can tell the year it was produced. There are also few old articles in different places on the net about those rifles that are pretty good but you'll have to do some searching to find them. I hope that helps?
@@jemsietrotter That really is neat. It always fun to have a rifle that's already special and then you find out it's even a little more special than you thought.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Finally got to watch and yes it was worth the wait! I only shoot 3 shot groups from my 270 right now because it is strictly a hunting rifle and yes because of the shortage of supplies also. Mine is shooting those Hornady 140 grain btsp really well too! Last time out I was trying loads and had been using winchester primers. I was getting around 1.5" groups. Then I tried my same load except the primers were federal 210m and my group shrank to 3/8". I was pretty excited! Mine is shooting the 140 grainers around 2900-2950 range right now and I still have some room to go up on powder.
@@NCWoodlandRoamer I'm glad you enjoyed it. And those are some good velocities you're getting out of those 140 gr bullets. That's about what I'm expecting out of the Westerner? But I'm really curious as to what I'm actually getting with that Magpro powder? Hopefully we'll find out real soon.
Great video sir I really enjoy all of your videos keep up the good work.you do have some nice rifles for sure been trying to find me a winchester model 70 for some time now
flattened primers ARE a warning sign, but as well as i can remember from 25 years ago, a bunch of things can contribute--soft brass, loosened primer pocket, thin primer walls, a slighted oily chamber, chamber dimension, head spacing, etc. it often happened to me with starting loads. that bright line that appears ahead of the base on the cartridge is certainly head separation in the making leading to a very, very bad day. thanks, thoroughly enjoyed!
I'm glad you enjoyed it. And after that starting load the primers just kept looking better and better until I wasn't getting any pressure signs. Hopefully it stays that way!
@@terrymcclendon8715 well, i'm still here and i assume mr river is as well--so you must be right. i would say that caution when you're unsure is a good way to keep safer rather than moving into the realm of destructive testing.
This is real life here folks. I've battled my chronograph many times. Nothing like loading up your rounds and then having equipment problems. I've had to throw out a whole days worth of data because I didn't trust it. Don't get discouraged, make some new rounds and try again tomorrow
two of the finest rifles I've ever seen. Kick my self all the time for selling my pre64 270 a few years ago. Just don't understand why I do things like that lol. I get to gun shows and everything just looks so inviting until the next gun show lol. Great video. If I were to verify that featherweight group again don't believe I would change a thing. Did you ever mention what gr your handload bullets are?
Oops, I really should have mentioned the bullets. I mentioned it when I talked about setting them up and which powders but that was a couple of videos back. Both were shooting 140gr Hornady boat tail soft points. And I was using one of IMR's new Enduron powders for the Featherweight. And we've all felt the calling of a new rifle at a gun show! Except for the gun show i went to yesterday. It was pretty bad. I've never seen that many people at a gun show here before and it was a seller's dream but a buyer's nightmare. There was very little of everything and the only tables that had anything still had what they had because their prices were unlike anything I've ever seen. Powder was $90 to $100 per pound and I don't think I saw more than 5 lbs of power total. The gun prices and selection weren't much better. But we all have those rifles we regret getting rid in our search for something even better.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving the last gun show I went to 6 weeks or so ago, 30-30 ammo was $60/bx. Just totally insane. We are falling into the trap the Left has set up for us.
I have a post -64 model 70 Winchester featherweight 308 this rifle will shoot a one inch group at 100 yards with 165 grain bullets . Other weights are not as good . I feel you need to find what the gun likes and stick with that load.
I agree completely about finding a bullet weight your rifle likes. But so far both these seem to like the 140's so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they keep liking them when i go back to verify those loads.
I liked your video but disagree with your accuracy philosophy. I am happy to get a 1 inch groups but I am really happy with 1/2 inch group. I realize a benchrest environment and a hunting environment is completely different. In a hunting environment I am shooting in some nasty angles and situations and groups will get bigger. That's one of the reasons I practice a lot in the back yard with a pellet gun with little tiny dime size targets at just15 yards. 15 shots a day prone, kneeling and standing, really improves your natural skillsets taking up only 15 minutes of your day. This fits in my schedule because it can be difficult and expensive to make it to the range. Of course you are out east and maybe your set up in a stand, I am from California canyons canyons and then more canyons.
I'm using a Burris E1 4.5x14x42 on both rifles. I keep and E1 on hand for my load testing but then I change to whatever I'm going to hunt with after I find a good load.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I use a 3x9x40 what's the maximum distance you'd say that's good for? Pretty new to shooting I've only shot about 50 rounds from my model 70 only at 100yrd about to move to 200yrd this coming weekend.. so just looking for knowledge right now
I have 1-6 scope without parralax. Your cheek well and 100% consistant sight picture are necessary. Does horizontal up to 2""stringing if your eye goes side to side. Put a different scope on with awesome parralax dial on it,3/4" groups with hand loads!😎
I am kind of late to this video. I hope you don't mind I was doing gun stuff while watching and listening. I was putting muzzle brakes three of my rifles that have threaded barrel. My M4A3 is threaded with a flash hider but I am not putting one on there. The three I am doing are all .308 Win. My Mossberg MVP Long Range 308 Thunder Ranch. My Windham Weaponry R16SFST-308 (AR-10.) And my newest rifle (honey, I bought another gun ...) the TC Compass II in .308 Win (I just really like that caliber, it will do anything that I want to do.) It comes with a threaded barrel. So, I got the SilencerCo brakes that have threads outside. If I decide to get a supressor, I can buy just one and move it to the rifle I am using. The reason for the Compass is watching other average guys like me getting really good results with the guarantee. 3 shots in 1 MOA. Now, the barrel can heat up and may produce fliers. Howevever, most actual deer hunting involves one, maybe two shots. I did not get to even fire once this last deer season. Last time I checked, zero was less than three. Otherwise, I am trying to keep this rifle as light as possible. I have on it the Diamondback Tactical 6-24/ 50 mm FFP that I pulled off my other rifle when I changed that to a Venom (I am a Vortex fan boy.) My Crossfire II is a second focal plane BDC Dead-Hold reticle and there is a way to true the BDC depending on your rifle and ammo. Either use a ballistic calculator and make a drop sheet and math the results to your hash marks. For example, the first one down in the Crossfire II reticle is 1.5 MOA. Works out to 225 yards instead of 200. What I have is a Strelok Pro app on my phone and it has a reticle button and figures that out for you. On the front screen for a firing solution, it will give the elevation and tell you how many clicks. And I just like the EBR-3C and 7C reticle better. Plus, I prefer to dial up rather than hold over. And I prefer to dial up more than point blank range, which can also be done. Some calculators will do that for you. You kill zone on a whitetail deer is 8 inches, so input half, which is 4 inches. Your first zero maybe 25 orr 30 yards and the second zero around 270 yard, max dropping out of the kill zone might be 300. Even if I am shooting no farther than 50 yards and I have zeroed at 100, it is easy enough dial up 3 clicks to approximate .8 MOA and shoot dead on in the Vital V. Anyway, so the thought I had about the different loads. Sometimes the best cartridge is not the fastest or heaviest. Some of the most accurate for 600 yards or less in .308 is at muzzle velocity 2800 or less. This can produce less recoil than a 3,000 fps screamer. This Compass is to be my lightest rifle, beat around and drag through the bush, rest on a tree and shoot. I am not even putting bipods on it. I will practice on bags. I think the heaviest thing is the scope at 24.6 ounces. The whole thing is weighing 10 pounds and 5 ounces - ish. And that is loaded with a 5 round magazine. So, some comparitive looking around and it appears that one of the better rounds for whitetail deer is Hornady SST 165 gr and that is what I am going to try. I have some 150 grain but now I have 4 boxes of the 165 grain. That give me time to group and sight in, and then practice some and still have some left over for the actual hunting season. I have other ammo I could shoot with but it is best to zero and settle with one round that works well for you.
The biggest stupid mistake I made at the range is leaving my gun . I was half way home before I realized it. I was so focused on my load testing of a 6mm Rem Ackley improved. End up selling that dang thing. Could not get 5 shot group averages below 3/4 inches.
I'm trying to build up some fouling not get rid of it. After I get a few more rounds through both of these rifles and build up some fouling from the cleaning I just did I suspect both will really settle down?
I can't watch this complete waste of time. Somehow, some way, someone years ago started a myth that the "proper" way to shoot a high-powered rifle in a light stock configuration was to leave the forend completely unsupported. The "proper" technique" was to use the off-hand to rest on the butt-stock and make fine-tuned adjustments on the target. It looks very cool - which is the goal of most wannabe "marksmen" - but it results in worthless feedback. The ONLY way to truly assess a lightweight firearm's accuracy is to support the forestock with the off-hand. It's the ONLY way to ensure a modicum of consistency, because a rifle doesn't fire itself in the real world. I've seen Marine sniper-qualified marksmen shoot my Model 70 FW in 270 Win using that "no hands on the stock" method, only to see them literally miss the entire 12" target at 100 yards. Check out the science and start using both hands.
Jake you're getting into some deep stuff there. I completely agree that we need to hold the forend on some rifles, but there are some rifles that we don't need to hold the forend at least at the range. These two particular rifles have a little jump to them and they should because they're sporter barrels in light weight stocks. But the jump is very slight which actually surprised me on the Featherweight. With that said I have another Winchester Featherweight in 257 Roberts that most of the time I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it if I don't hold the forend and it has a lot less recoil than either of these rifles. But it just jumps all over the place. Recoil from it is like getting hit with a ping pong ball. You barely feel it but it bounces all over the place and will jump completely off the rest if unsupported. If I hold the forend it shoots great. With that same rifle though, if I setup on the rifle correctly with a good cheek weld and without holding the forend it doesn't jump at all and the scope never comes off the target during recoil and I can actually watch the impacts through the scope and that rifle really shoots great then. On the .257 Featherweight I have some more to learn to shoot this rifle properly on a consistent basis. On other rifles, they're going to jump all over the place no matter what you do because of the amount of recoil in a light rifle and you have to hold the forened to ever hit anything with it, but most standard hunting rifles will shoot great just like I'm shooting these. Most will have a little jump at the muzzle but I have no problems shooting really small groups once I find a load that a rifle likes. It all depends on the rifle.
That bullet is gone long before the rifle moves. I’ve shot both ways and can’t see a difference. Remember Physics a object at rest tends to stay at rest
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I have a newer model 70 feather weight in .308 with the pre64 style action. That gun shoots 3 shot groups under an inch more often than not many times with all 3 rounds touching. However once my barrel heats up my shots do start to string in a vertical line straight up. Once my barrel cools it comes right back to zero. I usually fire 3 shot groups because it’s a deer rifle and I’ve never fired more than 3 rounds at one time.
And after I finished this video and went back and watched it I realized I made a big mistake on that part. When I said shots in a straight line are the shooter and not the equipment. It's actually usually the opposite. When the shooter is inconsistent the shots are random with fliers. It takes a special cause to shoot in straight lines and it's usually the equipment. And it's usually exactly what you just said which is the barrel heating up and touching wood somewhere. Shots stringing to the left would be the barrel touching the stock on the right hand side. Shots to the right is the barrel touching on the left. And shots stringing up is the barrel touching on the bottom. My first group in a straight line from the Westerner wasn't stringing. One shot was left of the first shot and the second shot was right of it. But the 2nd group out of the Westerner and the group from the Featherweight that was in a straight line both were stringing with the point of impact moving left to right. Which is very curious and something I'll want to talk about really soon. Thanks for mentioning that!
If you are sure your barrel is free floated 99% of the time the vertical string is powder charge and the horizontal string is a stable powder charge and a seating depth the rifle dosent care for. I have found always if I get a straight horizontal spread I seat the bullet 10 tho deeper over 20 tho and it will almost always come right in to a tight lil group
@@terrycalvert7812 from my experience seating depth is a wave. From what I’ve seen you should seat deeper in .003 increments to find a node. Seating .01 deeper skips over 3 possible depths that could fine tune that charge.
@@linemen71 I try to save components I jump ten tho a time then when I find the best of those I work either way in 2 tho increments until I find the best node loading all those rounds in 3 tho jumps over what could be 100 tho is a lot of components and barrel life that could have been saved by starting with bigger jumps then fine tuning from there but reloading is one of those things everyone has there preferred way with the way things have been the last year I try and conserve all that I can
@@terrycalvert7812 I’m sure you’ll find the data you need well before that. normally you’ll see it from less then .015 that’s only 5 loading with 3 shot groups
This video is a gem. Not because of the great groups, and they were great. Because the information about the mistakes made are the real gem. The sling studs hitting the bag is a hard lesson I learned.
Thanks, and I can't wait to get back out there and see how much a consistent rest changes things for me?
I have been watching your videos for a few weeks and one thing stands out, honesty. Honestly I believe your videos are the best out there because of honesty. I have taken many a deer with the model 70 in .270 and it is an iconic hunting rifle. Today I do most if not all my hunting with the mauser mo3 in 6.5x55 and .270. Hunting rifles become a very personal item like a dog or a nice car so its important that the relationship between the owner and the rifle is good.
Winchester Rifles are Beautiful and have alot of Craftsmanship and excellent History behind them .
I have a 1973 model 70 in 30-06 nib I think I paid 300.00 it over 20 years ago and I really have got to see what she can do it’s beauty jeweled bolt checkered stock love the old winchesters especially the lever action! Thanks for posting it’s given me the bug to shoot mine finally :)
PS love the sound of the peepers in the background up here in Mass that’s the sign for me to get the fishing gear dusted off and go after the Trout another month to go!
I'm getting for the large mouth bass right now! And that sounds like a really nice model 70. I have to say you have shown more patience than myself going this long without trying it out!
I have 80s model 70 in. A 270 with the boss. On it. Nice looking guns I have nice walnut stock on mine. But never have taken it deer hunting. Thought I might go out west and hunt elk with it but that never happened either. But. I love the old gun. Wouldn't get rid of it. Just. So nice. Reminds me of jack Oconner. I have that old book. It was written about the time I was born. But it still is very applicable. Today as it was then,,,,,,,
Just found your channel a couple weeks ago. I’ve enjoyed every video I’ve watched so far. Looking forward to future videos and this channel growing. You definitely deserve it!! Dream rifles by the way!
Thanks Tommy, I appreciate that.
I love the model 70’s and have a small collection of them, in my eye they’re the quintessential hunting rifle! My current favorite is a 2019 Dark Maple featherweight in .270 win. Lots of people assume that higher velocity is better, but… only if it’s practical and serves the purpose of the rifle and hunter using it. I appreciate that you explained that in this video! My thumbs up! God bless you and good luck with both of these rifles!
My dads totally original 1949 m70 in 270 with handloads will shoot 1/2 groups at 100yds. I have shot over a dozen pre-64 M70's and they all were sub 1 inch except for a beautiful 1955 243 featherweight which was at over 2 inches.
I don't think these old rifles get near enough credit for being as accurate as they are. And it's not that they are accurate compared to old rifles. They are accurate compared to anything else out there and more accurate than most.
Being a big Winchester M70 fan, I've been watching your M70 related videos and have to say that they are extremely interesting & informative. Thanks Tom for all your insights !!
The GoPro will have a corrupt video sometimes. A odd icon will show up where the video cam icon is on the GoPro. If your file is corrupted when you look at it on your computer. You can sometimes put the card back in the GoPro and turn it on. That odd icon that looks like a bandaid will appear. Press any button on the GoPro and it will repair that file. Then you can watch it. I have had that problem too, especially if the GoPro over heats.
Man you keep it real not many people admit when they make mistakes when shooting thanks for your honesty
Nail her down on load #3 LOL for the westerner. Both the rifles are more than adequate for hunting rifles. Nice video!
A cd of this video ought to be included in the box of every new rifle sold as a tutorial on scoping in rifle loads. Patience, order and method.
Feet position and crab claw for the finger, wide base for your feet, and no contact with the booger picker (trigger finger) past the palm pad of it. Those two things help me the most. Dry fire for a few minutes before hand too, maybe not that sweet pre 64 but the newer rifle heck yeah! I love this video, an honest shooter can be a good shooter
I have many firearms with no real story behind them, but the ones with a good story behind them will be the last ones to go when and if I ever reach that age that I start to sell them off. I love the story behind your Featherweight. It would be in my collection till the end.
It would be the 3rd from the last to go. I have an old Lee Enfield and an FN49 that are both really special to me for sentimental reasons. But those 3 will be with me with me until the end, or just before it. And like yourself I do love firearms with a story to them!
If you keep shooting those M70 .270 rifles, people will start calling you Jack! Don't forget to try Jack's standard .270 load. Maximum charge of H4831 with a 130gr spitzer. Looking forward to the next video.
LOL, Thanks
You would probably find that getting that front rest well behind the front sling swivel stud helpful. It is hard to find consistency dragging that stud over the front bag.
And you are spot on with that suggestion Chuck. I even mentioned that later in this video or the next one that I noticed I was getting sloppy in my fundamentals including not having the sling studs out in front of the bag when I watched the video of me shooting.
Beautiful rifles. I love the Winchester rifles over any other.
A flattened primer is not necessarily a sign of pressure. It is also a sign of low pressure. First group primer _______ next group rounded edges now group getting to max if not on max flattened and creators. Gone to far.
Good video lots of good information.
Thanks Blayne. I was just being a little overly cautious with that being a new powder and it had one heck of a large starting charge. The max charge was well into mag territory at 64.9gr.
This video has it all for those of us that love rifles. Excellent work.👍
Thanks Rick, and I just checked out your channel. It looks like you're putting out some great content for rifle lovers as well!
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thanks Brother 😊
Interesting results with two different rifles and matching loads. Have to give you credit Tom, you shot well despite dealing with cameras and batteries to make a video and still focus on fundamentals as well as you did. For me, my range time, I have to leave my mobile phone in my car to avoid distractions as much as possible. As much as I prefer older guns, I think modern metallurgy and CNC machining makes modern rifles shoot as well as hand fitted, hand machining in many cases. At least with consistency. Great video Tom. Thanks.
Thanks Stephen. I agree about the modern rifles being more consistent, but honestly I'm starting to question everything I thought I knew about older rifles. There's always the potential to buy an older rifle with a shot out barrel. There's also some designs in the past that made rifles more finicky for example the stocks on the standard model pre64 model 70's had a screw in front of the magazine that attaches the stock to the barrel of the rifle like the action screws and that would have to mess with harmonics on some rifles. But other than certain things like that I think these old rifles hold up just fine to our modern standards? I haven't fooled with enough of them to know but I'm constantly surprised by the few I have messed with.
What a beautiful day and two beautiful and fine-shooting rifles. Continued blessings and health to you. Love your channel!
Thanks, and i just checked out your channel. You have a great presence in front of the camera and I love that you're taking a family approach. I'm hoping to add some fishing to my channel this spring as well.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thank you for the kind words. My channel sure is a work in progress. I look forward to your fishing videos!
@@MisterBrewer Mine is a work in progress as well! I'm amazed at how much better my videos are than when I started but I also see something that I could improve in every video. I guess over time and with experience they just get better? Or at least I sure hope they do! And I have no idea how I'm going to approach the fishing videos? It's not easy to make fishing interesting on video. I've already done a couple of them but I never posted them just because I still have so much to learn about that. As for you, just keep doing what you're doing and it will come together for you.
I appreciate your honesty and good nature in the wrap up you had at the end of this video. Working on load development is a process, and sometimes there are sessions where things get thrown off getting to accomplish what is desired in a single session. At the same time, it's important to always remember we do this because we enjoy it, and any bad day at the range is more enjoyable than sitting at home. I've lost some confidence in the type of chronograph you're using. I've found if the bullet does not travel precisely over the same position over the eyes, the velocity will vary. In my quest for finding little tiny extreme spreads, I found part of it was changing to a different tool to measure velocity. ymmv.
Thanks, and I've looked at the magnetos and I have thought hard about that. At the moment I think you get much more accurate velocities from the magnetospeeds but less accurate shot groups because it does alter harmonics. With the old chronos you get less accurate velocities but true shot groups. If I were doing extreme long range shooting then without question i would go with the magnetos because accurate standard deviations are more important than more accurate shot groups. And you can always go back and verify the shot group without the magneto. But for the distances I'm shooting I just need a good ball park number for my velocities and a good zero. But later on I will be trying a magnetospeed just to experiment with it.
Great show, glad to hear everyone is doing fine. IF you had to only keep one which would it be, but I would keep both.
Right now the pre 64. It's lighter but still great accuracy. And the new basis really made a difference as far as cheek weld and scope position. When I shoulder that rifle as soon as I throw it up it's on target. But I'm going to put the same bases on the Westerner this week and see what they do for that one.
You definitely have a couple of fine rifles. They both shoot really well!
Thank You
Donald Blankenship
1 second ago
Great comparison! You remind me of myself making comparisons, and working up the best load. Great Job!
What calibers are each of the 70s? Just curious, might of missed it if you did say in video. Just wanna say I've learned things off of every video I've watched so far, some little things some huge. So thanks for some probably just basics that I was never taught over the years or overlooked or I just never picked up. So just wanna say thanks
Thank you very much for that Paul. And both are chambered in .270 Winchester. I talked about both in previous videos being in .270 and it's funny but after I talk about a rifle in one video I just assume everyone already knows that in the next video and forget to mention little things like what a rifle is chambered in. It just doesn't enter my mind while doing a video that not everyone has seen the previous videos. I only think about that after the video is finished. LOL
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I'm sure I watch the previous video and just forgot! Lol but thanks for responding!
Great observation on the rest and the forearm…I’ve chances by that recently.
Very cool!
BTW…I do own 2 Model 70’s. Mine chambered in .270 supergrade and the one I bought for my wife chambered in .243, featherweight (of course I’m the person shooting it).
The model 70 is a shooter always has been. My super grade maple 264 win when I did load development I shot 15 rounds over 5 grains of powder into one group that measured 1.12 inches. That says a lot about the rifle and the hand loaded bullets. The load I loaded for that rifle shoots all 3 or all 5 into one hole every time I shoot that gun. Iv never owned a rifle shoots as good as it does and does it every single time with a max charge of IMR 8133. Most of my rifles and consistent .5 moa rifles but that’s the only one is a consistent low 1s rifle.
FN has done a great job of maintaining Winchester's reputation for accuracy. I haven't seen one yet that won't shoot.
Thanks Tom, another great video, personally I could not shoot and put up with the distractions of the camera etc. Too much for this old mind to deal with. Still you cant complain about the groups from either rifle. Now when I shot I always had a rifle that actually felt better, kind of like old shoes. So I have to ask, which one feels better? If ya take the pre 64 kinda being the "holy grail" out of it....which one "feels" better?
Without a doubt the pre '64 felt better. During recoil both rifles had a little punch to them. Nothing bad but they felt the same on recoil and they shouldn't have. The Westerner is at least 1lb heavier and should have been smoother. But I am shooting a lighter load on the Featherweight so maybe that's why they feel the same?
But as far as how it feels just shouldering the rifle and getting on target that Featherweight is perfect, but part of that is the bases. I couldn't believe the difference those bases made. They got the scope down another 1/8 of an inch and the cheek weld is outstanding on the featherweight. Plus I can get the scope further back with those bases and every time I shouldered that rifle it's just on target and like you said it felt like "old shoes". I'm going to change the bases on the Westerner and then see how it compares to the featherweight after that?
Both rifles did an outstanding job. Is one more comfortable to you than the other, as far as fit, trigger pull, ect?
The pre '64 was definitely a better fit but it was mainly because of the new bases. They actually made that much of a difference. I'm going to change the basis on the Westerner to the same Warne bases and see how that works out. In fact I'm going to probably do a video just on that? The difference between the new bases and old ones were night and day. Other than that both rifles felt the same. And that's some of the things I want to go over when I compare them in more depth. I've been really impressed with the the pre64. It has everything you would want in a modern rifle including an adjustable trigger that is as crisp as it can be.
IMR 4064 130's and IMR 4350 for the 150's. Foul the barrel first before load testing, and keep it fouled for deer season. You should bed and free float the barrel to eliminate the two
Tom In my pre64 with 165 hornaday 4350 I'm sub . 75 Shot group and with speer 180 GS useing 4064 .75 4350 load was 57gr
Great video and I think you’ve found your loads! I agree that finding loads can be a process, especially when the nut that holds the stock is having an off day...
Agreed, that nut that holds the stock can sure make it tough sometimes!
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Yes sir! I saw him in the mirror this morning when I shaved!
@@nmelkhunter1 LOL
Another fine video Tom, you have a fine pair of rifles right there!
Thanks Hank.
For some reason my featherweight in 30-06 doesn’t kick,Mine was made in 63.Thanks for the video.
Tom, I enjoyed the video. I am a 270 enthusiast myself. I've killed a lot of deer with mine. I would think with that lighter barrel on the featherweight that your third shots and following would be fliers due to heat.
That's getting into a lot of stuff that I just don't fully understand yet. I've heard exactly what you just described most of my life about the Featherweight barrels. And i have a 2013 Featherweight in 7x57 that the first 2 shots would touch each other and the 3rd and 4th were always flyers and my first thought was exactly what you said especially after hearing that for so many years. Then one day just out of curiosity I checked the gap between the barrel and stock because it was a free floated barrel and sure enough there was almost no clearance in one section. I removed a little wood and never had another flyer. The barrel on the 1960 Featherweight isn't free floated and the action isn't bedded but the stock is fitted extremely well to the rifle. You would think that just the barrel heating up without being free floated would cause problems no matter what taper barrel but back in the 70's when a lot of people bedded actions they also bedded the forend of the stock to the barrel and many of those rifles were tack drivers. And they purposely bedded them that way to improve accuracy. The 1980's XTR Featherweight were bedded from the factory the entire length of the barrel channel as well and many of those were tackdrivers. So why didn't that throw off accuracy and produce flyers as the barrels heated up?
I don't think the Featherweight barrels themselves produce flyers just because they are lighter barrels, but I think there is a lot going on that we don't fully understand yet about why some rifles just shoot great when they shouldn't and why some don't shoot when they should? I've always heard model 94's aren't accurate because of the barrel bands and forend and so on. I got a model 94 in 30-30 for Christmas when I was 10 years old and it shot just like you would expect a m94 to shoot at 100 yards, not great. The next year i got a 4x scope and a side mount, went to the range, and all of my bullets were toughing. And that was with factory ammo, a fixed 4x scope, and an 11 year old behind the trigger. I think the Featherweight barrels just got blamed for flyers because people just didn't know what else to blame it on? And we still don't.
My dads totally original 1949 m70 in 270 with handloads will shoot 1/2 groups at 100yds. I have shot over a dozen pre-64 M70's and they all were sub 1 inch except for a beautiful 1955 243 featherweight which was at over 2 inches.
I have just bought a m70 super grade in 375h&h, it's a cabelas limited edition 1 of 200. Do you have any idea where I would be able to find out more info on it? I cant find a email address for winchester and waiting to hear back from cabelas, any other suggestions? Just discovered your channel and love it so far, I am loading ammo and watching you shoot with your Winchester's.
Nice rifle! If you call Winchester customer service and give them your serial number they can tell the year it was produced. There are also few old articles in different places on the net about those rifles that are pretty good but you'll have to do some searching to find them. I hope that helps?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thanks Tom. I heard back from Browning today, it was made in 2012 to commemorate 100 years of the 375 H&H.
@@jemsietrotter That really is neat. It always fun to have a rifle that's already special and then you find out it's even a little more special than you thought.
Don't have time now but can't wait to watch the whole video!
Hopefully it's worth the wait?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Finally got to watch and yes it was worth the wait! I only shoot 3 shot groups from my 270 right now because it is strictly a hunting rifle and yes because of the shortage of supplies also. Mine is shooting those Hornady 140 grain btsp really well too! Last time out I was trying loads and had been using winchester primers. I was getting around 1.5" groups. Then I tried my same load except the primers were federal 210m and my group shrank to 3/8". I was pretty excited! Mine is shooting the 140 grainers around 2900-2950 range right now and I still have some room to go up on powder.
@@NCWoodlandRoamer I'm glad you enjoyed it. And those are some good velocities you're getting out of those 140 gr bullets. That's about what I'm expecting out of the Westerner? But I'm really curious as to what I'm actually getting with that Magpro powder? Hopefully we'll find out real soon.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Looking forward to seeing what velocity you get. I'm shooting a 24" barrel and it just now has about 100 rounds through it.
Great video sir I really enjoy all of your videos keep up the good work.you do have some nice rifles for sure been trying to find me a winchester model 70 for some time now
Thank you, and don't worry one will turn up when you least expect it. And in my case it seems that they turn up when I least need them to as well? LOL
load 3 on the Westerner! Look No further ...ever! OMG for the pre64 Featherweight on Load 5! Wow, the Legend Lives!
I like the Westerner but that Featherweight is one pretty rifle.
I sort of feel the same way myself. There is just something about that Featherweight.
My thumbs are up. Thank you for another enjoyable video!
I'm glad you enjoyed it Ed. I'll be honest I had fun making this one.
Love my .270 pre 64.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, love this one
I'm glad you did Rory! And I have to say I loved making this one. It was a lot of fun.
Another great one Tom
Thanks Vincent, I really do appreciate that.
Thank you for the video and information hoss 🦾🚶
flattened primers ARE a warning sign, but as well as i can remember from 25 years ago, a bunch of things can contribute--soft brass, loosened primer pocket, thin primer walls, a slighted oily chamber, chamber dimension, head spacing, etc. it often happened to me with starting loads. that bright line that appears ahead of the base on the cartridge is certainly head separation in the making leading to a very, very bad day.
thanks, thoroughly enjoyed!
I'm glad you enjoyed it. And after that starting load the primers just kept looking better and better until I wasn't getting any pressure signs. Hopefully it stays that way!
Flattened primers have nothing to do with over pressure ,get a chronograph ! And s micrometer ! You have no idea what you are talking about !
Tom river, ignore this comment from Greg walker!
@@terrymcclendon8715 well, i'm still here and i assume mr river is as well--so you must be right. i would say that caution when you're unsure is a good way to keep safer rather than moving into the realm of destructive testing.
This is real life here folks. I've battled my chronograph many times. Nothing like loading up your rounds and then having equipment problems. I've had to throw out a whole days worth of data because I didn't trust it. Don't get discouraged, make some new rounds and try again tomorrow
Well said!
two of the finest rifles I've ever seen. Kick my self all the time for selling my pre64 270 a few years ago. Just don't understand why I do things like that lol. I get to gun shows and everything just looks so inviting until the next gun show lol. Great video. If I were to verify that featherweight group again don't believe I would change a thing. Did you ever mention what gr your handload bullets are?
Oops, I really should have mentioned the bullets. I mentioned it when I talked about setting them up and which powders but that was a couple of videos back. Both were shooting 140gr Hornady boat tail soft points. And I was using one of IMR's new Enduron powders for the Featherweight.
And we've all felt the calling of a new rifle at a gun show! Except for the gun show i went to yesterday. It was pretty bad. I've never seen that many people at a gun show here before and it was a seller's dream but a buyer's nightmare. There was very little of everything and the only tables that had anything still had what they had because their prices were unlike anything I've ever seen. Powder was $90 to $100 per pound and I don't think I saw more than 5 lbs of power total. The gun prices and selection weren't much better.
But we all have those rifles we regret getting rid in our search for something even better.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving the last gun show I went to 6 weeks or so ago, 30-30 ammo was $60/bx. Just totally insane. We are falling into the trap the Left has set up for us.
I have a post -64 model 70 Winchester featherweight 308 this rifle will shoot a one inch group at 100 yards with 165 grain bullets . Other weights are not as good . I feel you need to find what the gun likes and stick with that load.
I agree completely about finding a bullet weight your rifle likes. But so far both these seem to like the 140's so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they keep liking them when i go back to verify those loads.
Love it Tom... great stuff.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for sharing brother, enjoyed .
Great video Tom.
Just found this channel and I love it. A church going gun owner you are in the basket of deplorables right beside me.
I'm glad you like it. And I suspect there's quite a few of us in that basket right now? LOL
Do you live in Mayberry ? Just a joke ! I am a southern boy myself.
I liked your video but disagree with your accuracy philosophy. I am happy to get a 1 inch groups but I am really happy with 1/2 inch group. I realize a benchrest environment and a hunting environment is completely different. In a hunting environment I am shooting in some nasty angles and situations and groups will get bigger. That's one of the reasons I practice a lot in the back yard with a pellet gun with little tiny dime size targets at just15 yards. 15 shots a day prone, kneeling and standing, really improves your natural skillsets taking up only 15 minutes of your day. This fits in my schedule because it can be difficult and expensive to make it to the range. Of course you are out east and maybe your set up in a stand, I am from California canyons canyons and then more canyons.
Why 4 shot groups most use 3 shot groups
What scoped are you using?
I'm using a Burris E1 4.5x14x42 on both rifles. I keep and E1 on hand for my load testing but then I change to whatever I'm going to hunt with after I find a good load.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I use a 3x9x40 what's the maximum distance you'd say that's good for? Pretty new to shooting I've only shot about 50 rounds from my model 70 only at 100yrd about to move to 200yrd this coming weekend.. so just looking for knowledge right now
I have 1-6 scope without parralax. Your cheek well and 100% consistant sight picture are necessary. Does horizontal up to 2""stringing if your eye goes side to side. Put a different scope on with awesome parralax dial on it,3/4" groups with hand loads!😎
Good point.
Are you Forest Gumps brother?
I am kind of late to this video. I hope you don't mind I was doing gun stuff while watching and listening. I was putting muzzle brakes three of my rifles that have threaded barrel. My M4A3 is threaded with a flash hider but I am not putting one on there. The three I am doing are all .308 Win. My Mossberg MVP Long Range 308 Thunder Ranch. My Windham Weaponry R16SFST-308 (AR-10.) And my newest rifle (honey, I bought another gun ...) the TC Compass II in .308 Win (I just really like that caliber, it will do anything that I want to do.) It comes with a threaded barrel. So, I got the SilencerCo brakes that have threads outside. If I decide to get a supressor, I can buy just one and move it to the rifle I am using.
The reason for the Compass is watching other average guys like me getting really good results with the guarantee. 3 shots in 1 MOA. Now, the barrel can heat up and may produce fliers. Howevever, most actual deer hunting involves one, maybe two shots. I did not get to even fire once this last deer season. Last time I checked, zero was less than three.
Otherwise, I am trying to keep this rifle as light as possible. I have on it the Diamondback Tactical 6-24/ 50 mm FFP that I pulled off my other rifle when I changed that to a Venom (I am a Vortex fan boy.) My Crossfire II is a second focal plane BDC Dead-Hold reticle and there is a way to true the BDC depending on your rifle and ammo. Either use a ballistic calculator and make a drop sheet and math the results to your hash marks. For example, the first one down in the Crossfire II reticle is 1.5 MOA. Works out to 225 yards instead of 200. What I have is a Strelok Pro app on my phone and it has a reticle button and figures that out for you. On the front screen for a firing solution, it will give the elevation and tell you how many clicks.
And I just like the EBR-3C and 7C reticle better. Plus, I prefer to dial up rather than hold over. And I prefer to dial up more than point blank range, which can also be done. Some calculators will do that for you. You kill zone on a whitetail deer is 8 inches, so input half, which is 4 inches. Your first zero maybe 25 orr 30 yards and the second zero around 270 yard, max dropping out of the kill zone might be 300.
Even if I am shooting no farther than 50 yards and I have zeroed at 100, it is easy enough dial up 3 clicks to approximate .8 MOA and shoot dead on in the Vital V.
Anyway, so the thought I had about the different loads. Sometimes the best cartridge is not the fastest or heaviest. Some of the most accurate for 600 yards or less in .308 is at muzzle velocity 2800 or less. This can produce less recoil than a 3,000 fps screamer.
This Compass is to be my lightest rifle, beat around and drag through the bush, rest on a tree and shoot. I am not even putting bipods on it. I will practice on bags. I think the heaviest thing is the scope at 24.6 ounces. The whole thing is weighing 10 pounds and 5 ounces - ish. And that is loaded with a 5 round magazine.
So, some comparitive looking around and it appears that one of the better rounds for whitetail deer is Hornady SST 165 gr and that is what I am going to try. I have some 150 grain but now I have 4 boxes of the 165 grain. That give me time to group and sight in, and then practice some and still have some left over for the actual hunting season. I have other ammo I could shoot with but it is best to zero and settle with one round that works well for you.
The biggest stupid mistake I made at the range is leaving my gun . I was half way home before I realized it. I was so focused on my load testing of a 6mm Rem Ackley improved. End up selling that dang thing. Could not get 5 shot group averages below 3/4 inches.
you might wanna clean the copper fouling out of the barrel!
I'm trying to build up some fouling not get rid of it. After I get a few more rounds through both of these rifles and build up some fouling from the cleaning I just did I suspect both will really settle down?
Are you seeing your front sight through that scope. I had that problem with one of my rifles
I didn’t like it and changed the scope out. Just curious
No I'm not seeing the front sight, but if I get these scopes any lower that would be a possibility.
I just removed the front sight off mine.
I can't watch this complete waste of time. Somehow, some way, someone years ago started a myth that the "proper" way to shoot a high-powered rifle in a light stock configuration was to leave the forend completely unsupported. The "proper" technique" was to use the off-hand to rest on the butt-stock and make fine-tuned adjustments on the target. It looks very cool - which is the goal of most wannabe "marksmen" - but it results in worthless feedback. The ONLY way to truly assess a lightweight firearm's accuracy is to support the forestock with the off-hand. It's the ONLY way to ensure a modicum of consistency, because a rifle doesn't fire itself in the real world. I've seen Marine sniper-qualified marksmen shoot my Model 70 FW in 270 Win using that "no hands on the stock" method, only to see them literally miss the entire 12" target at 100 yards. Check out the science and start using both hands.
Jake you're getting into some deep stuff there. I completely agree that we need to hold the forend on some rifles, but there are some rifles that we don't need to hold the forend at least at the range. These two particular rifles have a little jump to them and they should because they're sporter barrels in light weight stocks. But the jump is very slight which actually surprised me on the Featherweight. With that said I have another Winchester Featherweight in 257 Roberts that most of the time I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it if I don't hold the forend and it has a lot less recoil than either of these rifles. But it just jumps all over the place. Recoil from it is like getting hit with a ping pong ball. You barely feel it but it bounces all over the place and will jump completely off the rest if unsupported. If I hold the forend it shoots great. With that same rifle though, if I setup on the rifle correctly with a good cheek weld and without holding the forend it doesn't jump at all and the scope never comes off the target during recoil and I can actually watch the impacts through the scope and that rifle really shoots great then. On the .257 Featherweight I have some more to learn to shoot this rifle properly on a consistent basis. On other rifles, they're going to jump all over the place no matter what you do because of the amount of recoil in a light rifle and you have to hold the forened to ever hit anything with it, but most standard hunting rifles will shoot great just like I'm shooting these. Most will have a little jump at the muzzle but I have no problems shooting really small groups once I find a load that a rifle likes. It all depends on the rifle.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Granted. I got a little "emotional." My apologies.
@@jakemitchell1671 Nothing to apologize for.
That bullet is gone long before the rifle moves. I’ve shot both ways and can’t see a difference. Remember Physics a object at rest tends to stay at rest
@@jeffmurphy9987 I agree it seems that way. Please google "Hold that Forend!" I think you will find it very interesting.