BEWARE! Narcissists, Psychopaths are Immoral, Amoral (Kohlberg’s Stages of Moral Development)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2024
- Kohlberg’s stages of moral development summary 1:08:40
Narcissists and psychopaths completely fail to develop moral reasoning. Victims shock: transactional, moral, empathy-based (verisimilitude) complaints.
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You can say in German Gut wiedermachen. It is more literary and I used it in this video for emphasis. But colloquially, in daily speech, the common expression is Wiedergutmachung (I use it in other videos of mine). See: www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/uebersetzung/es+wieder+gut+machen.html and kz-adlerwerke.de/de/aktionen/auffuehrung/wiedergutmachung.html Also: Kant used the word Erscheiung, not Erscheinung. Do your homework, native German-speakers!
I have become TRAPPED in a TOXIC relationship with Dallas, who I NOW KNOW
(after spending the past 2 years doing in-depth research )
is a
covert narcissist...and may be malignant 😮
Thanks for your brilliant exposure of the inner workings of the human mind. As I child I often thought to myself that my mother so rigid and even compulsive would dislike me because I had a short neck, could day dream while she would rage once I was slapped for forgetting where the salt cellar was and getting knives and forks wrong in setting the table. I would be mocked for clumsiness and told not to tell tales when other kids buried me. I became used to live in my head and would lie deliberately to her. Not being able to predict my mother's reaction to me when I behaved or looked in ways that shamed her I be punished. Punishment and morality meant little.
I think the best way to describe our reaction is one of being paralyzed.
Completely. Ruminating thoughts that ping between his mindset and "next move" and then to MY role in all of this. I get nothing done around my house. I can't focus at work. I can sit and hours will pass. Funny thing? I'm actually much better than I was a year ago.
@@ssarkansasHave you sought therapy?
OMG! this is the same exact thing I'm going through. therapy helps but they don't comprehend the state of this devastation. I can just sit and stare at a wall for 8 hrs and it feels like a minute. I'm 2 months in.....I hope it gets better soon. 🙏
Yes😞
@@alliwarwick5590my goodness, I've never heard anyone describe my life better than you have. ADHD and C-PTSD are just a sidekick to the ,would you call it, dissociation?
Yes, shock is the best way to describe my experience. I consider myself to be a smart educated woman, but was totally unmatched and unprepared for the mind games.
My ex-wife (a narcissist) would always know right/wrong (morality) when it came to others and their struggles, however when it came to herself, it was like she could never self-reflect on her own actions, and all the immoral decisions she would make. It was as if she was blind to her own actions and the hurt she caused others, while being the first to criticize them.
Yes. Being a bit judgemental is one thing, we all do it occasionally. But they way they are blind to the wrecking ball they take to other people's lives is truly chilling
This is my dad😮
Crime has consequences. Punishment has consequences. My soon to be ex husband believes he has done no harm to me. The assault. The damage. The court system. The charges being faced. He believes he will get off. This is what I am dealing with, while piecing my life back together.
The worst part....there are many relationships like mine.
Protect yourself.
I wish I knew of you before I met my ex-husband. I was so damaged by him.
Thanks for a very good explanation of these two disorders. No moral conscience makes them really dangerous to their surroundings. It is a disaster for so many!
Sam.. your work is world changing
Dr. Vaknin,
I can’t express how much your many, many lectures have helped me cope with extreme betrayal trauma from a narcissistic partner.
I normally avoid mental health content but I was fortunate to be able to actually be present during Otto Kernberg’s session with a patient.
I don’t have a formal education in psychology or psychodynamics but I’ve been seeing a psychoanalytic therapist for ~4 years and read Kernberg’s work. I’ve tried to familiarize myself with the basics of Freud and Jung and Klein but my knowledge is very uneven and shallow.
I saw in my work as a psych RN how frighteningly real these disorders are, and how severe it is, and the horrible tragedy of the incurable nature of truly clinical narcissism and borderline (and especially psychopathy).
However, I didn’t realize that I was surrounded by a narcissistic fantasy bubble myself.
My partner is *extremely* high-functioning and successful in her career but has no friends, is disliked by her family, and only showed her real personality at home. I didn’t want to believe it. Especially my complicity.
I knew *something* was off from the moment we met and I couldn’t ever put my finger on it. She told me she was diagnosed with autism as a child (later denied ever telling me), chronic depression, severe social anxiety, difficulty as a minority woman immigrant, etc. But these over time did not add up.
The only things I am certain about is that she was brutally physically abused by her alcoholic father essentially from birth, told constantly that she was so annoying and stressful it would be better if she hadn’t been born, and that she was a worthless and absolutely unlovable object.
And that because of this, she has a deeply problematic relationship in her relationships with men, basically no desire whatsoever for actual friendship or intimacy, and either no empathy (beyond cold empathy) or a weak empathy that easily gets disrupted and completely shut down under any significant stress.
My wife is universally admired and respected and envied but rarely liked and absolutely unapproachable personally. She may legitimately make intellectual contributions significant enough that they will make the lives of many people easier.
This means nothing whatsoever to her. Not even a sort of pleasant side effect. Nothing. She wouldn’t care if it had a negative effect on others. Outcomes of her behavior matter only insofar as they affect her.
Her name may even (legitimately) be recorded in the annals of history because of the brilliance of her efficiency solutions that increase the speed of communication through transcontinental fiber optic cables.
She has consistently been able to reduce the latency of the massive information passing through these cables (creating the Internet in real time) by 0.01 nanoseconds. This generates efficiencies so profound bc of the massive frequency of all data that she is worth millions if not tens of millions of dollars and can work for any tech company in the world.
She describes herself as a machine who feels more affinity for computers and machines than other people. The only things I have seen her display what seemed like genuine love is towards our two dogs (and animals in general).
However, notably, she rarely stays at any one organization for more than 6-12 months. I once saw this as ambition; I now wonder whether this is about as much time as she can keep up a persona or as much as people are willing to tolerate her amorality.
Obviously, as an acceptable partner (or rather, worshipper) of a deity, I had to be or at least publicly at all times appear perfect.
I was a trophy husband - intellectual, artistic, a person with a wide social network of people I’ve accumulated over the course of my life, a romantic martyr, her champion, her myrmidon.
And I loved it. She was my lord and I was her general - a sword in the hand of a queen with a burning rage and a heart of stone. She was my god and I was the High Priest. Together we were unstoppable. Not just in the fantasy - in reality as well, which made it difficult to realize how truly and horrifically, almost Satanically narcissistic she was and how much I had become corrupted.
The truly frightening thing to me is that I would have continued to be her sword and servant for years more if not forever, had she not discarded me after my sword shattered, after 1000 battles risking my life for her. I would have cut down people who did not deserve her sadistic manipulative abuse, and possibly even innocents. I would still be at her side - a miserable object for her to wield against and shield herself from consequences for her actions.
Because she doesn’t care about people. You know what this means, but 99% of people don’t. She’s not shy or awkward or autistic or exhausted by her career. She feels *nothing* towards other people. She recognize
As far as I’ve witnessed she’s not sadistic outside her intimate relationship, just utterly indifferent to a degree that most people literally cannot imagine
I have become a monster - no longer a champion of the weak, but a man of war and killing, a person feared and distrusted for legitimate reasons. I’m obsessed by how others perceive me. I stopped caring about others, regarding the weak and vulnerable as contemptible and deserving of their condition and thus my neglect and indifference.
I am trying to purge myself of this corruption. I do not know if it is possible to do so fully, but I am committed to becoming something more like the person I was. I find myself having to almost construct a new self - it is more reminiscent of my recovery from a manic episode decades ago than a breakup.
I send love out to you, knowing that there is damage that cannot be undone and wounds that cannot be healed and weep with blood as they are carried until the day of rest. I believe that you are always behind a pane of glass that distorts and contorts our attempts to communicate and love.
As a person once lost in the haunted house of endless mirrors reflecting darkly - a temporary visitor to the abyss - I do believe something like love is propelling you forward, though like Moses you may not see the land to which you will have led many former slaves out of the desert and into a new beginning.
Very crucial information to understand these people (Narcissists and Psychopaths) and why the can behave the way they do, which is very unlike how we (who have a developed Self) view and interact with others. This information is so very thoughtfully presented, and at a pace that makes it assimilable. Prof. Vaknin's presentations are a gift to us.
Professor Vaknin, thank you.
After my experience with him , I witnessed what appeared to be moral at the time , but as time passed and the games were revealed , the " morality" was absolutely goal oriented. The so called love was all conditional . In the end , the curtain was pulled back completely
This is incredibly profound. It intelligently relates to people in my life.
Simply put
They have no conscience, nothing saying 'no don't do that it's wrong & it will have negative consequences'
When I told my ex-husband, narcissist, he did not have any moral, he replied: "Eat your moral".
Loooool omg they are the worst!
I enjoy listening to your lectures, because I find the subject matter fascinating! I have a theory ion the development of morality that wasn’t considered here. Damon would have been closest to right based on my theory, which is, that narcissist’s and psychopath”sexperience abuse or profound trauma that arrest their development. Perhaps, some morality is attained in the time before the trauma or abuse occurs. My sister was a narcissist beyond a shadow of a doubt,BUT, she did have some empathy, albeit very childlike. She acted in most ways like a two year old, including her moral compass. She had no respect for authority her whole life, but after several incarcerations, her behavior did modify. She certainly learned that her actions had consequences, and she became less unlawful over time. She still was very selfish, and manipulative, and often lacked empathy, almost always actually. But her particular catalyst that caused her developmental maturest occurred around age two. As most two year olds have some sense of morality, and some degree of empathy, wouldn’t it make sense that she was a narcissist with very primitive morals, and empathy?
Pardon the typos!
I meant developmental arrest
Thank you for such insightful thought provoking information! This was VERY helpful, to understand more how narcissists and psychopaths think. I'd like to believe that they can change for the better, and it would be GREAT if everyone could learn how to help them, especially if they can't HELP the way they are, but WE need to heal and become mentally strong, BEFORE we ever consider it, especially learn to discern whether they are dangerous, since we need to learn anyways to protect ourselves and others.
I think this video is so important to understand. Thank you Sam 😊
The best info and survey I have come a cross in a loong time
And that’s the problem right there! As soon as I comenced listening to this video human superiority messages started popping up which we have all been conditioned with. The word “animalistic” constructed without processing that we too are animals except unlike other species we are the only ones who are capable of utter cruelty, sadism and psychopathy. Even the ones of us who claim to be victims of narcissism have narcissistic traits and have a feeling of superiority on this planet when in fact we are the only living things that biologically and scientifically don’t contribute positively to the eco system and earth! In fact we destroy them. We also torture and wipe out all other innocent inhabitants. Yet we continue to use ourselves as a measure of fake kindness we label as “humaneness” and a deluded feeling of advancement! We are raised with entitlement! And severe issues!
useful discussions. Thank you.
Brilliant exegesis of Kohlberg and theories
I've heard the term 'narcissistic style' or 'highly narcissistic style' used to describe non-pathalogical narcissists that demonstrate strong narcissistic personality traits and behaviors. Is there a psychopathic equivalent?
Yes. According to Sperry all personality disorder have a corresponding personality style. No such thing as a “highly narcissistic style”, it is online nonsense.
@@samvaknin thank you.
In the case of a cover narcissist who has morals they project in a shared fantasy as theirs... isn't the choice to say they have one set of morals but actually live out an opposite set a moral choice?
Sam, where can we find a specialist to be evaluated and dignosed professionally?
The Bible says there’s life and death in the power of the tongue
Act morally simply because they were concerned about others would view them.
It was ok for her to have an affair with a married man in secret.
But when people knew then it was an issue because it Tarnished her image effecting her false self.
Answers a lot of questions... About something which may be unfixable...
The child is a product of their environment
You are the best!!!! ענק
my aunt is a malignant narcissist(She was arrested once for neighbors property damage), how do I avoid her as she frequently shows up at my house asking for money/ 4-5 month long stay?
Maybe you could try relying upon a support network to act as a intermediatory for interacting with your grandmother.
For example maybe your friend greg lives kind of close to your grandmother and you trust greg enough to help you with the task of delivering the money you owe your grandmother to her.
Not because you yourself don't want to be around with your wonderful grandmother but because it's simply more reasonable for greg to deliver the money for you, so you can continue on with your own life.
Maybe you could try doing something like that to avoid directly interacting with your grandmother and putting up a barrier that also comes with the benefit of plausible deniability.
Stop providing her money or shelter. If you can't move, pretend you did. Get the word out that you moved away. Get an outside-only vicious dog. Get a ring doorbell camera so you can see who's outside. Don't answer your bell if she's there. If she damages your property as revenge, call the police and get a restraining order.
Move and don't leave a forwarding address, if not, upgrade your security grow a pair and tell her where to go.
He’ll never answer anyone that doesn’t have a clinical diagnosis from a professional
@@ds37215Great Pyrenees is awesome
Well the reward is being given money or favor of an addictive substance to keep them coming back to the source of their addiction. I.e. government control. Moral control breaking and getting paid to do such.
i want to find an answer to switch off the pain.
Same here feeling pain from the minute i wake,only peace when i am asleep.
Therapy helps lots of free classes around.
what worked for me was realizing i have no control over others, focus on healing myself. The scars remain, but i can view them from a wiser perspective. and as you get older, the perspective changes, and you can remember the good, and accept the rest, but now i can just accept, and seek understanding of it all, cuz thats all i can control. the rest ain't up to me. i wish you well on your own journey.
What happened to him when I done no response his Messege in the end ? He didn’t say anything after that no Messege no call
I was not react in the whole devalue process just asked simply questions which he replies one by one which given me a clear picture to take the decision that’s me in this process in not right as THE PERSON behaving not like a normal person. So I walked away simply without saying anything
I think HE KNOWS that I KNOW him in some way
Could you please tell me what his state of mind regarding my decision?
Block him everywhere permanently, put him out of your mind and move on with your life.
Knowing how he felt about you not responding to his verbal abuse will not better your life. He doesn't care, anyway, except for missing the joy of hurting you and scheming to suck you back in. So see paragraph 1 to find out how to win and stop him.
Thanks it’s a great advise
But be honest it does not matter for me anymore just to know the process how it works for them. I am enjoying every bit of life especially after this as I know my worth 😊
PSYCHOPATHY is a GREEK WORD, GREEK IS KING!!!!
Imorral and immortal
Im jewish and i am so impressed with the debt of your mind.
Morality is a tough one. I believe it is a human construct that many people follow and perpetuate. Morals are good to have though