Yo people - thought I would go through this as I've mentioned it previously and been asked a couple of times. As ever, don't do anything (or not do anything) just cos Joey D does (or doesn't). Enjoy, hit that thumbs up for me, and have yourselves a good day x
Have you ever tried adding more hip flexion during the squat instead of trying to stay upright at the bottom portion of it. Most people recommend your shin angle to be parallel with your spine throughout the lift. Thank you for your input and advice throughout the video!
This is what maturity in the gym looks and sounds like. Trainers and practitioners could take a page or two from your book. I'm in the same boat as you and I prioritise those substitute movements instead of the DL & BS and funnily enough, when I do decide to Deadlift or Back Squat (Rarely) my numbers have always been the same if not better. Great video!
I had a physical therapist admonish me to stop doing any loaded squats at all. He showed me on a model of the spine what all that pressure is doing to the cartilage in your spine - especially when you get older - even with proper form you could be creating permanent damage. One slip up on form and you could really mess up your future mobility. It put the fear of god in me and now I either do body weight or goblet squats.
The minimum goal for any exercise is to "do no harm." Injuries don't just take you out of training for awhile. They can turn into serious issues over time, especially as we age.
For me deadlift is a fucking stupid exercise . Every time i deadlift , even rack pulls , my back hurts . and i front squatted 157 kg , benched 157 kg and barbell row 130 . without any problem. But each time i deadlift i fuck up my back . Never more
@@baldersn4474ronnie coleman the "greatest bodybuilder of all time" had 13 spine injuries. You don't just "do it right." Your spine can only take so much weight before it crushes no matter how correct your movements are.
@@FleshToDust lol rubbish ! I know bodybuilders in there eighties who are still traiming..Because they dont train heavy lifting ridcoulous weights and they concentrate on form...Ronnies only got himself to blame your body cant put up with that abuse for ever..
@@Pierrot9315 back squats bug my lower back too... I like heavy front squats i feel all the stress on my muscles and core and not my spine lol . i still do light backsquats occasionally but only like 50% or less for a pump
I’m an above the knee amputee, lost it at the age of 62 after having trained at that point for about 50. I squated, I deadlifted and achieved and maintained a strong back and good legs. After a month and a half in the hospital I was weak and could almost wrap my hands around my thigh. When I got a prosthesis, I could do squats, but not heavy or deep because of the socket on my prosthesis. Same with dead lifts. So I switched to leg press and leg curls and my leg soon returned to its previous size. Seated pulley rows take care of the lower back of you focus on that.
From one lifter to another - you good sir... are an absolute king. And I hope you stick to hitting the iron in any form you choose long-term. Can't keep a strong dude down!
Massive respect to all prosthetic athletes. Many would just give up on it but yet it's always amazing to see you all pulling feats of strength competitive to even other experienced lifters.
That's literally my experience! I did a lot of heavy squats and deadlifts, but my mind never wanted to believe that these exericses are the problem. I always told myself "I'm keeping perfect form, even the trainer says so, and many other people also do these exercises without any problems, it has to be a something else" Then corona hit, and i had no access to a GYM for almost a YEAR, but i still did all the other exercises besides heavy leg training, because i didn't own the equipment. Guess what? No back pain during this year, not a single fucking time. I'm training my legs with the squat machine now. Thank you for sharing, now i don't feel alone with that problem.
Weird. I started getting back pain after giving them up. Back at it now and noticing less back pain after a few session. In my experience the brace strength I develop helps brace my core in day to day life. Seems obvious 🤷♂️ also all im doing is trap bar dead’s to keep arms in a natural, neutral position.
I have (lower) back issues. I miss doing deadlifts & squats but waking up every morning pain free is priceless. There are many alternatives to the big lifts.
You might wanna look into squat university. Good chance you might find a drill that will get rid of this pain. Too often people and even doctors think lifting is off the table when it doesn't have to be
@@hijo1998 every persons body is different some people have lower back pain from squatting some don’t. It’s like any other sport with the risks of injury
herniated a disc in my spine deadlifting which led to part loss of use in one of my legs and spine surgery, good to see someone with a platform in this industry talk about the negatives to such a compound lift
I was doing these lifts and other heavy lifts into my 50s but like you I've now given them up. My muscles could handle it and were telling me to keep going but my spine said a big NO! We have to be real about heavy lifting. It's possible to build muscles this way. We equate that to being healthy. But generally speaking, heavy lifts are not beneficial to the connective tissues (ligaments, tendons, and spinal discs). At some point that other stuff wears out and can cause serious problems. For mobility and a longevity of health we might need to reconsider some of these lifts.
Thank you SO much for sharing this video. I’ve had this issue for so many years. It feels great to watch you and have permission to trust my body on this one- and go for less injury prone exercises.
I've been lifting for 33 yrs, plagued with lower back pain in recent years, ql strains, and si joint soreness, all coming from heavy deadlifts and squats. Endless stretching, rolling, needling, and intensive therapy, all so I could continue doing these exercises, and ultimately continuing this cycle. At my age it can't continue, so I've decided to drop both only in the last few weeks. I have to concur with everything you've said. I'm not claiming these are bad exercises, indeed they carry more risk at heavy loads, but I rather continue my training and enjoy it, rather than sit it out beating myself up in sheer frustration and / or limitation with lower back pain brought about by both these specific exercises. Great video, and thank you.
Conventional Deadlifts are my main Hamstring/Traps/Forearm builder, but DLs have a massive impact on systemic fatigue by wrecking your CNS. This is a great video as recreational training shouldn't be dogmatic. Every muscle group can be worked through a multitude of exercises. Pick the ones you like the most and it will be easier to stay consistent and progressively overload. Consistency is key.
@@rupert909 not really. It's a super heavy isometric in the stretched position. Research suggests that the loaded stretch is the most hypertrophic part of any exercise. I do zero trap isolations. Only dl and rows.
@@Shvabicu it's a super light isometric hold relative to what the traps can manage. For example, You could do rack pulls wearing straps with a FAR higher weight, which would be easier on the hamstrings and grip, but much harder for the traps. Deadlifting is super lightweight for the traps compared to rack pulls... Deadlifts don't put the traps anywhere near failure, as you hamstrings, lower back or grip will give out far sooner. The loaded stretch might be the most hypertrophic part of a typical rom, but you're not doing a typical rom. Research shows that bringing a muscle through any rom at all is more hypertrophic than an isometric hold... Weighted stretch is important, but FAR from optimal for muscle gain if no other part of the rom is performed. Again, you do you, but don't pretend that solely, easy submaximal isometric holds are optimal for any muscle's development. You wouldnt say that picking up a dumbell like you're about to do a bicep curl, but just holding it with a straight arm in front of your body, isometrically, and then putting it down before you even think about failure, is optimal for bicep size; so why do you say so for traps?
Tip for the leg press if it’s not comfortable, do one leg at a time. The resting leg should be on the ground and just use it as a support. The resting nature of the leg will also put less stress on your lower back + you’ll use less weight, so even less stress. And even better, the position of your legs will allow for a deeper movement. For someone who has lower back problems such as myself, this is a really pain free exercise.
I can stand behind it, if deadlift is not for you, dont do it. It is still a great exercises but if your goals are not powerlifting or improving those big lifts, but rather hypertrophy, then taking them out altogether wont hurt your physique.
As weird as it sounds single leg rdl’s are a lot better for most people. If you get used to balancing and progressively overload it pretty much attacks all the smaller muscles to correct imbalances from leg to leg.
I like this comment. I'm not comfortable with deadlifts, but I'm not trying to powerlift. I work out for a sense of therapy and to stay in good shape. I do alot of hiit workouts with also a progressive overload principal in lat pulldowns, bench presses, ect. It's nice to see a video like this
there are so many alternative anyway, RDL, swing, rack deadlift, pull through etc the hinge movement can be done without the risk and complication, and huge load, connecte to the true deadlift
I've stopped deadlifting and squatting. I have hurt my back so many times it is not worth it. Hurt my SI, my psoas, my erectors. And it's not from bad form. Likely from having a job where I sit all day. Certain muscles just got tight and/or weak as hell. Consistency is crucial to progress. Being hurt destroys consistency.
Without sounding harsh, 95 percent sure it will be bad form. Record your deadlift form from the side and it might expose alot. The other 5 percent could be a weak muscle(most likely weak abs) nothing to do with you sitting all day. If you warm up it's all good.
I also stopped doings squats and deadlifts recently - and largely for the same reasons: accumulation of damage over time and my seeming inability to “get good” with form. My job also involves me being able to be on my feet and possibly run at any given time. Again, like you said, the risk to benefit ratio was just not worth it anymore.
JO - what you are saying makes logical sense. As a 57 year old new to weight training, I already suffered lower back issues from barbell squats, just as you experienced. Some good videos and your down to earth way of presentation (oh....and yeah, the dry humour) is refreshing to view. Kudos for your time and effort.
I just suffered a hip injury and am incredibly stiff because of these two workouts. You releasing this video couldn't have come at a better time. Thank you!
Deadlifts and squats have both been in my workouts for the 20+ years I've been lifting. I'll never remove them. But I definitely go alot lighter than my earlier years.
@@pokiblue5870 but, you won't "bulk" up because you're a woman. Your hormones won't allow you unless you supplement them with specific substances... you should be trying to maximize muscle because after 40 you'll start losing it ans bone density regularly.
Yep, in my early 20's i was squatting/deadlifting a solid 100pounds more than i am now. I have less time now but it is nice to know you can keep a large proportion of the strength without spending too much time grinding in the gym :D
Thank you so much for talking about this. I literally haven't seen any other fitness TH-camr talk about this. All of them are all in on these two exercises. I tried to do these for years and my back really suffered for it no matter how I adjusted my form. Eventually I go to the point where I almost quit lifting altogether because it seemed to only cause me pain. I stopped doing these two lifts and it fixed everything for me.
@@vattghern7592 i have been having back problem for like 2 years now. When I take rest for my lower back the pain goes away after a week or so. I was stubborn and kept trying to deadlift again and squat. Recently even with like 40 kg on the bar for a few reps the next day I had back pain again... I will completely skip this exercise now it's not worth it. know my form is good.
@@jochembraad1760 Have you tried incorporating lower back exercises and stretches? I used to get lower back pain which seemed to be chronic until one day I came across a video by Ben from KneesOverToes. He recommended incorporating more lower back exercises and stretches and since then my lower back pain is nonexistent. I do them thrice a week. I have also incorporated ass-to-grass squats but only using light weights. Some yoga also helps.
@@vattghern7592i think thats the important point here. You can see it every day in the gym.. so many guys do ego lifting.. and while it can work with dumb machines, it definitely will NOT work with those compound movements with free heavy weights.. People need to have the patience to do those movements with very light weights and go very slowly higher in the numbers. I think thats the biggest problem people have with those.. just too much ego for keeping the numbers too little for very long.. Also people have shitty forms.. especially men.. Women do way better when it comes to good form!
Awesome. I literally just stopped deadlifting and squatting a few weeks ago. For this exact same reason. Funny how you find the perfect video, from one of your most watched influencers, at the exact time you need to see it. 👏
I don't even watch this channel that often, I've seen a few videos, but that's it. Decided to stop heavy deadlifting and squatting because of lower back pain for around 2-3 days after the training, instead moved on to doing these exercises very lightly with low weight and then focusing my energy on single leg deadlifts (which I feel like have a much lesser impact on your spine) and the romanian split squat with barbells. That was two weeks ago, and today this popped up in my recommendations. The algorithm is real.
This is interesting - my lower back pain vanished and my mobility increased as I DLed and Squatted with (hopefully) proper form. I've also watched my strength increase, but I'm 58 going relatively light and working a number of shoulder and ankle mobility exercises
@@chrisnat6467 But when you guys say back pain, does that include blowing your back out and being screwed for weeks after? I've had my back blow out twice, once from moderate squatting (relatively light weight) and then even on leg press. I'm getting older but these days just do leg extensions. Because of the back blow outs, I put squats and really doing legs away after doing legs once per week since 1991. I miss doing them but when I blow my back out, I can't do F all, not even sit comfortably in a chair and lasts for weeks with physio.
Very impressed by Joey D‘s honesty. It should be an obvious truth that not all exercises work for all people and body types. I am 58 yo, 198 cm (6‘6) tall, and screwing up my back in one way or another seemed to be my primary obsession. Deadlifts will have me call my physio within a day after doing them. Squats, however, seem to have largely fixed my lower back problems when I started doing them correctly. As a matter of fact, when I feel a twinge in my back, it is gone after a round of squats whereas leg presses always seem to exacerbate it. I use five finger shoes, which give me a very stable posture, and i had to experiment with leg and foot positions at low weight to find the one that worked for me.
Came to this same conclusion about two months ago and have felt so much better since. My lower back used to be so beat up after deads and squats, now I do leg presses, DB RDL, goblet squats, etc. and feel so much healthier.
Dude can u plz tell me how did u recover your lower back. Deadlifts and squats fucked my lower back. I have constant pain for 9 months now and somtimes my hips and my hamstrings get numb. And sometimes bending over and stretching makes it worse. How did u cure lower back?
@@arslaanpasha3334 anytype of spine decompression works I did deadhangs for a while and add some lower back strengthening like the back extension. look up kneesovertoesguy. i heard people do well with an inversion tables but I cant personally atest to that.
@@arslaanpasha3334it sounds like you need to talk to a doctor. 9 months is too long to be hurting. Especially if it was after a specific event happened you need to see a doctor
I've recently stopped big compounds like deadlifts and heavy barbell squats due to complications with 1 or 2 of the disks in my back, had to be smarter with my training to keep mobility 👍 enjoying life being able to get my socks on in record time, sick video as always Joe 🤙
Same I just injured my back doing deadlifts a couple months ago and disc injuries are no joke. They aren't for everybody and you don't need to do them if they don't feel good. In my case deadlifts never felt comfortable possibly because of form and it took an injury to get me to stop lol. And I might not be touching squats possibly ever again I'll see how I recover. But yeah, it's nice to be able to just do everyday things without pain and you realize how much you miss it when you don't have it. For me right now that means no squats and deadlifts.
@@bksg4ming I'm in the same position with my recovery. I've actually been doing Bioneer's Batman 2021 training routine, and it's great. I highly recommend it if you're experienced with exercise and looking for a new challenge. The only squats I do now are pistol squats (sometimes with a little weight). Otherwise, I've replaced them with lunges. Check that routine out though, its leg day is really good.
I had a very bad disc hernia and sciatica due to poor execution and lack of mobility.I had before my injury an 130kg zercher squat for reps I recovered from this injury and I improved my mobility and stability,now I can do those movements,and I feel way more stable and better than before the injury. Just because you have injured spine doesn't mean that those exercices are bad, You don't know how to do them.Everyone should have some basic mobility to be able to perform them safe
@@ir0n_bb170 Or you come back from a sickness/break with an ego, try to do your old lifts, and neglect your form or capability. That's what happened to me. As you said, the exercise was fine. The issue was how I performed it. That said, once you get injured, you can recover and continue onward (if possible), or ask yourself, "Why was I deadlifting 160kg?" I train for MMA and some parkour. I have better performance now without deadlifts and squats. It's because I focus on exercises which specifically apply to the target objective instead of doing something for the sake of doing it. Squat jumps with some weight & lunges are huge for mimicking explosive, kinetic muscle-chain movements like kicks. When I compare them to back squats, I wonder why I bothered when I can reduce my chances of injury and get comparable results. Deadlifts are fun af, and breaking my record of 160kg is something I want to do once I'm better recovered. But I'm also shocked that, even though I'm recovering, I've surpassed my performance in kicks, punches, etc without deadlifts and squats.
@@ir0n_bb170 I had the same thing myself in my 20s (2 slipped discs and sciatica down both legs) so squats and deadlifts were a no go, finally got spinal surgery i 05 and can perform such movements fine now although still choose not to simply as they are not needed for my own goals. i agree though about feeling more stable. i think when youve had a lower back injury for some time it makes you also alot more aware of correct form on any lift afterward as always conscious of the spine
I swapped out conventional deadlift for RDLs and hip thrust too when working out at home, as it's always been something of an injury risk for me too. If I'm in the gym, I'll do deadlifts with a trap bar for a more neutral spine, similar to the sumo deadlift.
Im 67 years old. Ive been weight training since I was 14. On and off. Ive had 8 back surgeries and am fused from L3 to S1. I train twice per week following HIT . I don't do squats or deadlifts. I train on machines. Leg curls and leg extensions. I would do calves but have so much nerve damage I can't. you have a torso much like mine . Its long and subject to injury. Stay healthy your body has to last .
What are you doing for quad and glute growth? I have l4/l5 disk impingements. Leg press, leg extensions cause back pain. Obviously deadlift and back squats are off the table.
@@lifeforgod07 nothing other than the leg extensions and leg curls. I was doing a leg press but I had to stop because it hurt my back. It sucks not to be able to do anything besides that but it is what it is. I may try the leg press again with very light weight and high slow reps and see if that works. If it causes you pain its best not to do it.
@@ksliebe I’ve been doing body weight exercise (Squats, lunges, and Bulgarian split squats:. Has been working well so far. Just wondering what others are doing
Great video. Great to see someone explaining why they avoid certain lifts. All lifts are just tools, tools to get strong and big. There is zero purpose in worshipping a set few lifts.
I agree that these movements are not for everyone, especially deadlifts. If deadlifting aligned with their goals, I would typically not have my clients do them until later in their training journey and only when I was there to monitor. If we did do them, I would switch them from back squats to front squats, to not tax their back more than needed, and because glutes were already being targeted with hamstrings in the deadlift and the other glute exercises I would have them on.
@@andr1 This is true. I bulged a disc in my thoracic spine doing front squats with too much weight and too much forward lean. Now I can't do overhead presses or front squat without disc pain.
I'm 6'4 so i feel like i get way more from Lunges and isolations for my quads and RDL'S and Rack Pulls for my posterior chain. It's really hard to find advice thats actually honest about individual physiology, height, leverages etc so it's actually nice to see people break out of that mold.
I never had too many issues with deadlifts and seemed to always do them with good form; but one time, out of the blue, I made a mistake…at least I think I did. Strained my back really bad. Not gonna lie, my back has never really been the same. Have had mild back issues flare up at least once year since…that’s was prob 15 years ago.
@@navajorezathlete1202 appreciate it but this is rlly making me reconsider taking it out my program . I even showed my parents a set once and they said they rlly don’t like me doing it because as said above , all it takes is a single second of non perfect or optimal form to ruin it for a few months or years
@@Stockatic I feel you. I do rack pulls every once and a great while. But, deadlifts are gone forever. TBH, i can’t really tell a difference with the thinks I have replaced them with
I started squatting and deadlifting in my late 50s, mainly because so many people advised me to. I’m finding far more downsides in terms of reduced mobility and lower body pain than the supposed upsides. Watched this two weeks ago and stopped both, since then I am getting far more leg work done , the pain has reduced dramatically and my mobility is already improving again. Many thanks for posting this it has made a big Big difference to this old Dude who plans to keep lifting for many years yet.
yes! thank you for talking about this!! i had to stop them several months ago after i had the same back injury twice after squatting. when i tell people that i don’t squat or deadlift they look at me like i’m crazy… glad someone in the fitness community is talking about this. you can most definitely get by without them despite them being “essential” compound movements
I’ve gotten hurt performing both exercises throughout the years. Back felt like someone struck me with a ball pen hammer. I fought through the pain and still lifted at 50-60% of my normal effort. Fortunately, there is no chronic pain. But, I am more careful The risk is always there. I’m 52 now so, this video is an excuse to look at other options. Thanks for sharing.
I stopped deadlifting a long time ago and felt the benefits immediately. I have two slipped discs and sciatica which has kept me out of the gym for up to 6 months at a time. Now I just keep squats at 60kg's and concentrate on good form. deadlifts I would never go back to, its an injury just waiting to happen. Good video.
In all seriousness, I've seen a few advanced lifters state that squats, barbell rows, and weighted chinups provide training for the posterior chain that carries over to the deadlift. The carryover is enough that some of those lifters can take a break from deadlifts for months at a time without any appreciable losses on that lift (I had a similar experience with taking a 1-month break from rack pulls and any kind of deadlift).
Squats ok for me but as soon as I started deadlifting my lower back got progressively a little worse (I didn’t realise it on a day by day basis but as Joe said the minor injuries added up - doesn’t help my shitty posture whilst sitting that butchers it even more)
Everything goes through vogues. As we get more experienced (older) we pick up some twinges. Also everyone is different in relation to bendability. I would encourage everyone to keep stretching in an educated way as it keeps us going. But I do agree that if an exercise is pulling you back then give it a rest. Also - a HUGE thing which is rarely discussed is 'the pelvic tilt'.
Very similar experience over a decade of trying with both exercises. I even hired someone who knew what they were doing and said my form/mobility was fine on each, but I always got injured even at lower weights. Unfortunately, I recently found out I have two degenerating/herniated discs between l4-l5 and l5-s1. I was warned by an orthopedic surgeon to cease vertically loading my spine. So I guess I’ll now be focusing on upper body while walking on toothpicks since I can only do body weight leg exercises. Better than going under the knife at 30 though. Also better than having the crippling sciatica I experienced for 3 months recently recur.
@UCJUm7UEcEFVh3XynPdRXlTA Athletic lifestyle my entire life combined with both parents having spine issues early in their lives as well, it was bound to spring up at some point. No issues in the bedroom though, don’t be calling that on me!
Holy moly, this is such a good video, it is so nice seeing someone not just bursting his opinions into you, and while it would still be nice to have a liiiitle more info into it, it is still nice to actually going through an analysis, advantages disadvantages etc; what's more, doing alternative exercises is good, even if you do, do these movements, it is a good idea to have a switch from time to time and not let the muscle only get adjusted to 1 movement, so it is a healthy thing for everyone It is also so good how you covered all the critiques that someone might have towards you having problems with these, and really pointing out that at the end of the day, there is a routine for everyone, I personally do both of these and have also been squatting ass to grass for a long time and never have had problems, but know that there are people who feel it bad the second their knees go below 90 degrees, at the end of the day, fitness should be a life-long, long term thing and injury prevention should always be a priority to just getting a bit more out of exercises, since you won't be able to get anything when you don't lift because of pain...
why not do both. My main three exercises on leg day is back squat, hip thrust and bulgarian split squat. Bulgarian split squat is definitrly thr most difficult out of the three
I haven't squated or dead lifted for years, and I have also noticed my recovery improving , on top of what you've said. The risks outway the benefit, for me, as I have no dream of competing.
Same. I have replaced squats with leg Press because of this naturally. I haven't completely replaced deadlift but now thinking of sticking to dumbbell goodmornings only.
Two back surgeries and I find the Bulgarian Split Squat and carefully performed leg press quite effective. You are not the only person to have the courage to say that squats are not necessarily best. Glad more people are coming around. Squats are great, but other exercises will get the job done if done with intensity.
I am nearly 40 and same story. I've been lifting since I was a teenager and lifted heavy all through my 20s and most of my 30s. Squats and deadlifts wrecked me. I recently got a Rogue GHD and incorporate nearly all of the exercises you mentioned and I feel like a new man. No low back pain, fantastic mobility and flexibility. I want to be able to lift when I'm 70 or even 80 if I live that long and not be in a wheelchair.
hey joe... spot on. im in the same category as you.. long story short.. heavy squats deadlift messed me up at age 23. plagued with back problems.. stopped squats and deadlifts 8 years ago.. still get back problems.. but only 2 times a years.. i just got a problem at lower back.. root cause: used to wear a back pack on 1 shoulder when was at school. put a slight curve in my lower back.. buggered me up for heavy lifts on squats and deadlift. end
I was absolutely in love with CrossFit but I hurt my back going max on dead lifts. I stopped working out and went to physical therapy for 3 months. Also I took many instructional classes on proper form because I truly believed it was my fault, but the pain and tightness returns despite my lifts being supervised for proper for. I pass on dead lifts all together now. I’m a single dad, and keeping up with my 6 yr old is very important to me.
Bro, u dont know how much this vid means, close to tears rn, ive been researching, asking pro trainers, trying these exercises but just failing miserably. thank you for this vid. for real.
I think too many people try to do "proper" range of motion, but what's touted as "correct" doesn't actually suit everyone's physiology. We're all built differently and adjustments are needed. If you really want to anger the youtube fitness echo chamber just tell them to change their ROM. Even if it saves their joints and prevents injury, people will still insist on this one-size-fits-all ROM.
Yeah definitely true. I myself have crazy long forearms and when benching all the way to my chest, my shoulders have to tilt forward like crazy. So i stop like 5-10 cm above my chest. People going crazy saying I don't have range of motion, but atleast im not hurting my shoulders anymore when benching.
I've had a very similar experience to what Joe's had. Luckily I found the trap bar deadlift and it's my #1 high load exercise. Leg press is another exercise that I can just keep loading up no matter how much my squat suffers from minor injuries. Enjoy lifting and stay safe.
@@fiddlebender88 sorry to hear that about your squat, glad you can still leg press tho!And I love the traditional DL but the trap bar and sumo DL seems so more natural to me
Thanks for being a beacon of vulnerability and bravery in this bleak world. I’m not doing squats ever again. Had the same thing in my lower back. So brave, so strong
This was very informative. I'm not a body builder but I do enjoy weight training. I hate squats and they never feel that comfortable (and thus not enjoyable). I like deadlifts but I have short arms and small hands so I find that limits my progress. Good to know you can choose other things and still have growth, as it does feel like the fitness community is obsessed with certain exercises and if you don't do them you may as well not work out at all.
I've been battling lower back injuries for years, which these specific lifts have caused. Instead of just stopping these exercises, i've been pressured as i know they're some of the more important lifts. Thank you for making this video Joe, alot of people have the same issue!!!
they are only 'important' lifts if you are into powerlifting. if wanting to just build muscle then they're not needed at all. dorian yates is a perfect example of a mass monster who didn't do squats or deadlifts
The natural squat pattern is normal and should be used, but squatting with a whole ton of weight on your back is just not natural at all. There will never be any point in anyone’s life where your gonna squat to carry something heavy.
Thank you for saying it. I'm 36 now and I wish I had known these things when I as 13. I think I would be so much stronger and injury-free if people were just more honest about drug-use and injuries resulting from lifting to failure each time.
Me too. I'm just 29 and already experiencing some movement issues. My body is very flexible a little bit to my detriment. I'm not experiencing pain and want to keep it that way, using lower weights and paying attention to any signs. I certainly put my body under unnecessary burden when I was younger by wanting to reach new limits and sacrificing form. I regularly used stimulants pre-workout and didn't rest properly. It was part of the lifting culture I grew up in and the internet was full of incorrect information. I'm glad that it's much better nowadays.
Hopefully squat university will pop up with some free face to face coaching for you :) I’m in a similar position now though, just going through my third attempt at relearning the squat after snapping my shit up last January… and interestingly one leg lunges exasperated the problem. Deadlifts have never felt right, tried and tried. But my fix was I could learn to master the RDL using a stick as shown in Elliot Hulses videos. I don’t have a rack so I pull it off the floor before getting in the right position. But I look stupid asf deadlifting 110kg with shit form, but then pitch perfect RDLs for like 8 reps.. makes no sense at all hahaha
Thank you for this. Every other person up here is saying you're doing it wrong if you get injured. Truth is we're all different. Our jobs are different. Our backs are different. I've been lifting for over 20 years. And I've had countless injuries. Every time I'd come back to doing dead lift and traditional squats. I'd eventually suffer for it. When you're a mature lifter. You learn to do what's best for you and not what others say. Haven't done dead lift or Traditional squats in years. And everyone tells me I have one of the best physics they've ever seen. At the gym, at work, at my Church. Literally everywhere I go. And I'm all natural. I only supplement one scoop of protein and creatine after workouts and I eat a lot!!! I could get on stage and compete with the best of them if I was in to that sort of thing. But I could care less. But these two exercises are not necessary to be in great shape. My doctor even told me to avoid them to prevent injury. She was right.
Sorry I've been training a lot of people lately. We years crowd. Just received my certification as a personal trainer so I'm late getting back to this. I've been doing what some would call female workouts. Hip thrusts machine, hip abductor and hip adductor. Lunges, front and regular squats on the Smith Machine. Hack squats, and other squat machines single leg leg press. Glute press, glute raises. A lot of women that have big booties at my gym don't even do dead lift or traditional squats. If these workouts work for them. Why not me. As you get older, you learn to lift smarter. Hope this answers your question. Don't be afraid or ashamed to do these workouts. They are killer when done right. They are tough!!! Those women work hard for them booties. Seriously!!!
@@leroyhudson3676 ok I get it so your replacing deadlifts with those.. but what is the rest of your training looking like as well? What do u do majority of the week?
@@justineandserena well it too much to type out my entire work out plan in a week. But this is a small summary of it. Monday's, chest and arms and abs Tuesday's, legs Wednesday's, Rest Thursday's, Back and shoulders and abs Friday's, Recap day. A lil bit of everything. Saturday's, Cardio. Usually running on the treadmill and some glute a couple of glute exercises and one ab workout. Sunday, Rest
Yeah agreed.. Im 55 this year, been training since my early 20's. I've pretty much tried everything that you speak of here. Swapped them out for Bulgarian split squats with a weighted sand bag (just 10 -20kg) and do 40 ish reps per set.. usually do 6 -8 sets! I tell you that I have almost eliminated back pain and im definitely stronger. As for Dead Lifts I just do RDL's as I don't even need the quad/hammy part of the movement... Its mainly a Latt/back movement anyway, plus I can lift around 20% more without harming my lower back! Body weight lunges are awesome too.. just have to do them to failure.. Great vid, great advice ✅
It’s a good point , this is one of the reasons why Arthur Jones invented the nautilus duo leg press , apart from altering the strength curve , Casey Viator was hurting his neck from having a squat bar resting on his vertebrae, usually upwards of 500lb , the duo squat relieved this by having the resistance rest over the traps 90° difference from the squat bar , there are other ways as you say the leg press ,front squat , etc .
I went through this exact thought process a couple of years ago. The final nail in the coffin for me was during lockdown being stuck without a barbell. I did dumbbell goblet squats and dumbbell Bulgarian split squats at home all of 2020 and it absolutely blew my legs up in a way that barbell back squats never did. I can never honestly say I finished a set of barbell back squats and thought “omg, my quads!”. I always just thought “omg, I want to be sick. Also my knees and back kinda hurt”.
I’m 47 and have been working out for many years. I have a mild scoliosis and have injured my lower back several times trying to master squatting and deadlifting. Why? Everyone praises the benefit’s of them and you feel like you have to do them if you want to get stronger and fitter. This video was a relief to watch and I think it’s an important message. Yes they have great benefits, but also great risks and the same muscles can be worked in a much safer way. So, thank you for this highly appreciated video.👍🏻
I really appreciate the video. So many online programs say that squats and deadlifts are required. I have never been able to comfortably incorporate them into my workout. I assume it is because of my form, but my back is always sore when those are part of my workout. I've got 3 kids, a full time job, I volunteer, and therefore I lift in at home with limited equipment. I have been using bulgarian split squats, goblet squats, and squat thrusters to replace the squat. I use RDL to replace deadlift.
Once you get into your mid thirties you’re ok with sacrificing a bit of ego in exchange for a reduced risk of injury. Would rather just build muscle and enjoy life.
Yeah it's a psychological trap and people don't always compare apples to bro apples anyway. Brag about your 8rm or 5 rm or... don't brag at all and compete with yourself! Some people brag and then you see their form and it's not so impressive! It's all kind of toxic I feel but I know others like it...Is it work ethic or genes or drugs anyway...and in what measures...
In my case, after years of struggling with deadlifts (variants too) I came up with the solution of one-legged Romanian deadlifts with dumbbells. This was a great solution!!! I recommend it.
Literally the story of my work out life. Many thanks for this video! Started with mastering the form (to the best of my abilities), going gradually with the weight increase. Started noticing minor inconvenience in the lower back, wrote it off as muscle soreness. Reached the 100kg deadlift ONCE after months of gradual training. For two weeks I could not straighten my back after leaning forward. 2 weeks later I went back for a 70kg RDL. Months of "rehabilitation followed. Since then doing mostly Bulgarian squats, single leg press and dumbbell lunges. The pain, inconvenience vanished, with similar gains. Cheers!
I do leg press, deadlifts, hamstring curls,leg extensions and calf raises. Do you think this is sufficient enough to build a good lower body without squats?
I completely empathise with you. Squats and deadlifts had the exact same effect on my lower back muscles and I too no longer do either. I now concentrate on leg press and Bulgarian split squats with dumbbells. Using dumbbells now means the weight is no longer on my shoulders, so no stress on the lower back. Great vid, by the way 👍
Thanks for this video Joe. I actually have similar thoughts. I don't recommend traditional deadlifts to anyone who doesn't want to compete in powerlifting. Can get the same benefit with less chance of injury with a trap bar deadlift.
So glad there's someone out there that's experienced exactly the same as me. I've been contemplating replacing squat and deadlift due to a tight lower back for the past few months/years. I race dirt bikes which requires a lot of time standing up on the bike but found the pain in my lower back almost unbearable. I concluded that my workout programme wasn't conducive to my riding. I've since adjusted my program and, hey presto, back tightness is a lot better.
Bro I rode dirt bikes for Many years. Quit while you're ahead, seriously. I know it sucks to hear it but that's one thing that will tear up your lower back because you're tilted forward and hitting bumps all the time
i also quit deadlifting and squatting, but i found that not overdoing it on Hexbar deadlifts is a realy nice replacement and way less stress on the lower back
My dude... My guy... Literally every lower back issue I've come across when it comes to squatting and deadlifting is entirely due to holding your breath in the wrong place. You hold it in your chest instead of all the way down in your diaphragm/lower abs. When you do it right, you'll feel your lower back lock up tight. Don't ever release that lock when doing the movement. Just push that breath allllll the way down there (not so far down that it gives you a rectal prolapse, though). Even with bad form, this is how you secure your lower back from injury. I've helped a dozen guys with their lower back issues by teaching them this (along with some form corrections) and they immediately saw results, putting 20kg on their deadlift immediately, and waking up with a better feeling back.
This is the correct answer, of course it is buried way down in the comments. Proper bracing is the key to taking the tension off of your lower back!! And it is a skill you have to learn! Tense your core and push against the back of your core with your breath. Stop using a belt until you learn how to do this. You want your abdomen to be as stiff as a board of wood so that the energy can be transferred from the floor to the bar with the greatest efficiency.
can be summed up by just saying "learn the valsalva maneuver and brace properly" It really is that simple, that and managing fatigue. To be brutally honest, sometimes you just have to literally shut up and lift properly...
I think my stupid ego is not ready yet to stop training back squat. I really see what you mean with proper breathing and bracing, and I think I lack that. I will wait until my lower back feels 100% okay, deload and use pause squat to really make sure I don't do bad reps, then go up in weight again.
Totally agree with this. I don't deadlift, squat or do leg presses. They have a cumulative adverse effect on the lower back. There are plenty of lifters that have had multiple back surgeries. You don't want to go there. A bad back injury can change your life for the worse. I am aghast at some of the deadlifting videos I see on TH-cam.
Brave man and god on you. I am the same re squats and deadlifts but also don’t do barbell bench or flys because of shoulder injuries. Views on that would be interesting. Also on the leg press machine you used I did that a few years ago and popped a rib! Painful. Any views or advice as liked the exercise but won’t do it again. I am 62 ans been training for 30 years on and off. The risk reward issue for us older dudes is the biggest issue. Just became a fan of yours.
Shoulders and flies/bench press problems? So can you dip or is that out too? Dip isn't just lower chest upper gets some stimulation. Consider lying on floor for chest presses and flies like Scooby 1961 who has shoulder problems but a big chest. Not ideal but just accept it and do what you can not what you can't! Push ups can be made harder. Feet on bench hands on suspension trainer or rings weight in a backpack...see AlphaDestiny... There are different types of push ups, planche for example...
Oh man I was struggling with lower back pain often from training and exactly as you say I never wanted to accept that it comes from all the stress caused by deadlifts and squats. Even my trainers were always like "nah you just have to stretch more and get stronger". Watching this was quite an eye opener. I really like squatting so I don't want to remove it completely but will take it more easy on them, and deadlifts are getting replaced. Big thanks!
Two years into training hard, I am starting to feel the cumulative effect of minor injuries from deadlifting and squats. At 60, I can no longer game shit like younger men. Thank you for providing alternatives. Keep it up, JoeyD, ya fuckin gangsta, ya.
Heh I am 62 and don’t do either of them either for exactly the reasons here. Also I don’t barbell bench or flys because of my shoulders for the same reasons. At our age is all about protection but I still get a good pump and look much younger than my years thanks to the weights. Nice one my friend.
From my experience, whenever something hurts after training (unless you got injured) you have to stretch the muscle in the near proximity and not the muscle itself. I got rid of plantar fasciitis in no time when I started stretching my calf muscles and whenever I feel lower back pain I know I have to seriously stretch (or foamroll) glutes, hamstrings and hip flexors. Btw, you've got solid replacement exercises. I like those a lot
I really hurt my back from trying to squat 8 years ago. I've tried multiple times but it always ends up bad again. I love Bulgarian Split Squats, never any back pain and you can actually build up to a lot of load with just dumbbells: since you are using one leg to lift bodyweight + weights, you need less than half the amount of weight you'd use on a normal squat.
Bulgarians have allowed me to put so much more mass since I stopped traditional squatting. You need less weight for each since you’re on one leg at a time and building them individually forces you to improve your balance and core stability. A superior exercise in every way except that you can probably lift a greater total amount of weight with traditional squats.
Excellent video. Not all human beings are built the same. The wisdom is in knowing - through careful experimentation - what works for you. The ego has no place in the gym.
DELANEY! I've trained for 52 years now, and I am compelled to say that along with being in great shape, you also have the damnedest unique and pleasant presenter style I've ever witnessed. You very clear, and concise, with an added touch of dry humor. Seriously, if you haven't already done this, please look into acting, or other associated arts. You are a natural for this profession. You posses that certain, "Something", that all really good actors posses. Whatever one wishes to call it, charm, charisma, magnetism, etc. Whatever it is, You've got it! So, kudos to You, Delaney. I wish You, God's Speed.
You aren't an ego lifter are you, do you have the ego to admit it? I'm in my 50's and now thinking eight is enough based on the old tv show...because science!
You make me feel much better about my choice to throw away squats and deadlifts from my workouts (I even hate writing this out haha) but I’ve enjoyed my new routines
Yo people - thought I would go through this as I've mentioned it previously and been asked a couple of times. As ever, don't do anything (or not do anything) just cos Joey D does (or doesn't). Enjoy, hit that thumbs up for me, and have yourselves a good day x
@Joe Delaney check out Ivan Djuric's Squat Everyday, recently surpassed 600 days of consecutive squatting
Have you ever tried adding more hip flexion during the squat instead of trying to stay upright at the bottom portion of it. Most people recommend your shin angle to be parallel with your spine throughout the lift. Thank you for your input and advice throughout the video!
as a natty, you'd need some sort of compound to stimulate and condition testosterone levels. What DO you do to replace squats and deadlift?
@@user-304jgojnegilrnw It's in the video mate...
I only do trap bar deadlifts and sometimes sumo. Still do squats as using leg machines would force me to go to a public gym and mix with other humans
"Some say deadlifts are for leg day, other say they are for back day, I say they're for another day"
- Don M.
One of my favorites 😂
wise words.
SQUAT BENCH DEADLIFT. one is the fucking best, one is the fucking worst, and one is the fucking hardest.
@@barrybarry6570
Sqaut: hardest
Bench: best
Deadlift: worst
@@mike2207 squat: hardest
deadlift: best
bench: worst
I thought Kendall Jenner was brave when admitting to her temporary acne, but this is next level
🤣👏🏾
Hahaha
You have a custard cream lodged in your brainstem
Joe Delaney certainly is my hero!
I was replying to a deleted comment if anyone is confused haha
wow you're so brave. thank you for sharing and being so vulnerable xx
hahaha lost it at how many of these there are after the vid has been up 10 mins. U mad knts
@@JoeDelaneyy can’t be late to a video from the man himself
@@JoeDelaneyy the heck you call me m8. I wil make you contempl8, 0/8 m8? Cause i will decim8. No deb8.
💀
@@alexrider6200 Amazing comment
This is what maturity in the gym looks and sounds like. Trainers and practitioners could take a page or two from your book. I'm in the same boat as you and I prioritise those substitute movements instead of the DL & BS and funnily enough, when I do decide to Deadlift or Back Squat (Rarely) my numbers have always been the same if not better. Great video!
Yeah when I didn't back squat for ages and trained loads of bodyweight stuff I got stronger on back squats
I had a physical therapist admonish me to stop doing any loaded squats at all. He showed me on a model of the spine what all that pressure is doing to the cartilage in your spine - especially when you get older - even with proper form you could be creating permanent damage. One slip up on form and you could really mess up your future mobility. It put the fear of god in me and now I either do body weight or goblet squats.
The minimum goal for any exercise is to "do no harm." Injuries don't just take you out of training for awhile. They can turn into serious issues over time, especially as we age.
Yeah you get one life, you dont wanna fuck it all up from a silly ass injury
For me deadlift is a fucking stupid exercise . Every time i deadlift , even rack pulls , my back hurts .
and i front squatted 157 kg , benched 157 kg and barbell row 130 . without any problem. But each time i deadlift i fuck up my back . Never more
So do the exercise correctpy, lower the weight and concentrate on form..
@@baldersn4474ronnie coleman the "greatest bodybuilder of all time" had 13 spine injuries. You don't just "do it right." Your spine can only take so much weight before it crushes no matter how correct your movements are.
@@FleshToDust lol rubbish ! I know bodybuilders in there eighties who are still traiming..Because they dont train heavy lifting ridcoulous weights and they concentrate on form...Ronnies only got himself to blame your body cant put up with that abuse for ever..
Sitting here in tears rn now fr. So brave. So vulnerable. So northern.
So gxy
@DJ Sweet you need to train your sense of humour. 3 sets of 30 minutes standup per week
@DJ Sweet Bro you good?
lmao
Ive been looking for a reason not to squat, I didn't realise that we were able to just not squat! Cheers Joe. 😊
People actually do leg day?
I like the belt or hack squat but absolutely hate the back squat, the feeling on my shoulder and back is horrible. So I do mainly press and isolation
@@australianpatriot nah bro its just a meme to distract newbies from training chest and bis exclusively and getting juicy as fuark. A conspiracy
@@Pierrot9315 back squats bug my lower back too... I like heavy front squats i feel all the stress on my muscles and core and not my spine lol . i still do light backsquats occasionally but only like 50% or less for a pump
😂
wow you’re so brave. thank you for sharing and being so vulnerable xx
I’m an above the knee amputee, lost it at the age of 62 after having trained at that point for about 50. I squated, I deadlifted and achieved and maintained a strong back and good legs. After a month and a half in the hospital I was weak and could almost wrap my hands around my thigh. When I got a prosthesis, I could do squats, but not heavy or deep because of the socket on my prosthesis. Same with dead lifts. So I switched to leg press and leg curls and my leg soon returned to its previous size. Seated pulley rows take care of the lower back of you focus on that.
From one lifter to another - you good sir... are an absolute king. And I hope you stick to hitting the iron in any form you choose long-term. Can't keep a strong dude down!
Massive respect to all prosthetic athletes. Many would just give up on it but yet it's always amazing to see you all pulling feats of strength competitive to even other experienced lifters.
🙏
Wait, why did you lose your knee???
How are you typing this without hands…? And without a head?
That's literally my experience! I did a lot of heavy squats and deadlifts, but my mind never wanted to believe that these exericses are the problem. I always told myself "I'm keeping perfect form, even the trainer says so, and many other people also do these exercises without any problems, it has to be a something else"
Then corona hit, and i had no access to a GYM for almost a YEAR, but i still did all the other exercises besides heavy leg training, because i didn't own the equipment. Guess what? No back pain during this year, not a single fucking time.
I'm training my legs with the squat machine now.
Thank you for sharing, now i don't feel alone with that problem.
@Andy Butler they do get back and knee problems when they are older
@Andy Butler more yes. But all heavy ligters wil get knee or hip problems one day.
Same exact experience I do trap bar dead lifts now and all dumbbells for legs
No, you're definitely noit the sole ego lifter. Don't worry mate, LOADS of young men talking about the issues they had with it.
Weird. I started getting back pain after giving them up. Back at it now and noticing less back pain after a few session. In my experience the brace strength I develop helps brace my core in day to day life. Seems obvious 🤷♂️ also all im doing is trap bar dead’s to keep arms in a natural, neutral position.
I have (lower) back issues. I miss doing deadlifts & squats but waking up every morning pain free is priceless. There are many alternatives to the big lifts.
You might wanna look into squat university. Good chance you might find a drill that will get rid of this pain. Too often people and even doctors think lifting is off the table when it doesn't have to be
@@hijo1998 such as
@@hijo1998 every persons body is different some people have lower back pain from squatting some don’t. It’s like any other sport with the risks of injury
Try trap bar deadlifts no more back pain
Strange! I never get back pain from squatting hmm must just be my body!
herniated a disc in my spine deadlifting which led to part loss of use in one of my legs and spine surgery, good to see someone with a platform in this industry talk about the negatives to such a compound lift
Lol I can just picture your form
@@boohoo584 ego lifting + terrible form
100%
Snap city form
@@NickBen87 even if there was good form if the fatigue is more you can tweak your back.
This mustve been a difficult vid for you to make, touchy subject. Your strength inspires me 🥲🙏🏻
As someone who’s dealt with back issues, I found this to be a very informative video. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I was doing these lifts and other heavy lifts into my 50s but like you I've now given them up. My muscles could handle it and were telling me to keep going but my spine said a big NO! We have to be real about heavy lifting. It's possible to build muscles this way. We equate that to being healthy. But generally speaking, heavy lifts are not beneficial to the connective tissues (ligaments, tendons, and spinal discs). At some point that other stuff wears out and can cause serious problems. For mobility and a longevity of health we might need to reconsider some of these lifts.
Joe seems like a real good and honest dude. He gives a lot of good practical info based on years of experience. He has a good natural physique
Thanks bro
Thank you SO much for sharing this video. I’ve had this issue for so many years. It feels great to watch you and have permission to trust my body on this one- and go for less injury prone exercises.
I've been lifting for 33 yrs, plagued with lower back pain in recent years, ql strains, and si joint soreness, all coming from heavy deadlifts and squats. Endless stretching, rolling, needling, and intensive therapy, all so I could continue doing these exercises, and ultimately continuing this cycle.
At my age it can't continue, so I've decided to drop both only in the last few weeks. I have to concur with everything you've said. I'm not claiming these are bad exercises, indeed they carry more risk at heavy loads, but I rather continue my training and enjoy it, rather than sit it out beating myself up in sheer frustration and / or limitation with lower back pain brought about by both these specific exercises.
Great video, and thank you.
Conventional Deadlifts are my main Hamstring/Traps/Forearm builder, but DLs have a massive impact on systemic fatigue by wrecking your CNS. This is a great video as recreational training shouldn't be dogmatic. Every muscle group can be worked through a multitude of exercises. Pick the ones you like the most and it will be easier to stay consistent and progressively overload. Consistency is key.
Why do you use a low intensity isometric hold as your main exercise for traps?
@@rupert909 because my traps are my most developed muscle
@@Shvabicu okay, so long as you understand you'd get better gains training them properly, you do you!
@@rupert909 not really. It's a super heavy isometric in the stretched position. Research suggests that the loaded stretch is the most hypertrophic part of any exercise. I do zero trap isolations. Only dl and rows.
@@Shvabicu it's a super light isometric hold relative to what the traps can manage.
For example, You could do rack pulls wearing straps with a FAR higher weight, which would be easier on the hamstrings and grip, but much harder for the traps. Deadlifting is super lightweight for the traps compared to rack pulls... Deadlifts don't put the traps anywhere near failure, as you hamstrings, lower back or grip will give out far sooner.
The loaded stretch might be the most hypertrophic part of a typical rom, but you're not doing a typical rom. Research shows that bringing a muscle through any rom at all is more hypertrophic than an isometric hold... Weighted stretch is important, but FAR from optimal for muscle gain if no other part of the rom is performed.
Again, you do you, but don't pretend that solely, easy submaximal isometric holds are optimal for any muscle's development.
You wouldnt say that picking up a dumbell like you're about to do a bicep curl, but just holding it with a straight arm in front of your body, isometrically, and then putting it down before you even think about failure, is optimal for bicep size; so why do you say so for traps?
Tip for the leg press if it’s not comfortable, do one leg at a time. The resting leg should be on the ground and just use it as a support. The resting nature of the leg will also put less stress on your lower back + you’ll use less weight, so even less stress. And even better, the position of your legs will allow for a deeper movement. For someone who has lower back problems such as myself, this is a really pain free exercise.
Cool idea!
@brand old extremely bad
I can stand behind it, if deadlift is not for you, dont do it. It is still a great exercises but if your goals are not powerlifting or improving those big lifts, but rather hypertrophy, then taking them out altogether wont hurt your physique.
As weird as it sounds single leg rdl’s are a lot better for most people. If you get used to balancing and progressively overload it pretty much attacks all the smaller muscles to correct imbalances from leg to leg.
I like this comment. I'm not comfortable with deadlifts, but I'm not trying to powerlift. I work out for a sense of therapy and to stay in good shape. I do alot of hiit workouts with also a progressive overload principal in lat pulldowns, bench presses, ect. It's nice to see a video like this
there are so many alternative anyway, RDL, swing, rack deadlift, pull through etc the hinge movement can be done without the risk and complication, and huge load, connecte to the true deadlift
I've stopped deadlifting and squatting. I have hurt my back so many times it is not worth it. Hurt my SI, my psoas, my erectors. And it's not from bad form. Likely from having a job where I sit all day. Certain muscles just got tight and/or weak as hell. Consistency is crucial to progress. Being hurt destroys consistency.
Yeh same thing have to sit all day and then to add weight pressure just fucks it even more
Don't kid yourself. It's bad form
bad form, too much weight.. could be a lot of things, you are not doing it the proper form.
T-bar
Without sounding harsh, 95 percent sure it will be bad form. Record your deadlift form from the side and it might expose alot. The other 5 percent could be a weak muscle(most likely weak abs) nothing to do with you sitting all day. If you warm up it's all good.
I also stopped doings squats and deadlifts recently - and largely for the same reasons: accumulation of damage over time and my seeming inability to “get good” with form. My job also involves me being able to be on my feet and possibly run at any given time. Again, like you said, the risk to benefit ratio was just not worth it anymore.
JO - what you are saying makes logical sense. As a 57 year old new to weight training, I already suffered lower back issues from barbell squats, just as you experienced. Some good videos and your down to earth way of presentation (oh....and yeah, the dry humour) is refreshing to view. Kudos for your time and effort.
This man the only guy that can do an advert that I don't mind sitting through. Well done, Jo.
Maaaan, you haven't watched Danny Duncan then
I just suffered a hip injury and am incredibly stiff because of these two workouts. You releasing this video couldn't have come at a better time. Thank you!
Deadlifts and squats have both been in my workouts for the 20+ years I've been lifting. I'll never remove them. But I definitely go alot lighter than my earlier years.
If don’t squat and deadlift I get pain in my knees and lower back. I can’t remove them.
i do squat but i put like 15pounds on each side , im a women tho and im not trying to bulk up but do endurance with lots of reps and 30sec rest.
@@pokiblue5870 don’t be afraid to lift heavy. It’s very difficult to bulk up as a woman naturally.
@@pokiblue5870 but, you won't "bulk" up because you're a woman. Your hormones won't allow you unless you supplement them with specific substances... you should be trying to maximize muscle because after 40 you'll start losing it ans bone density regularly.
Yep, in my early 20's i was squatting/deadlifting a solid 100pounds more than i am now. I have less time now but it is nice to know you can keep a large proportion of the strength without spending too much time grinding in the gym :D
Thank you so much for talking about this. I literally haven't seen any other fitness TH-camr talk about this. All of them are all in on these two exercises. I tried to do these for years and my back really suffered for it no matter how I adjusted my form. Eventually I go to the point where I almost quit lifting altogether because it seemed to only cause me pain. I stopped doing these two lifts and it fixed everything for me.
Same!!
Probably an issue with weights,
Control your movement with lighter weights, don't ego lift, and your back will be fine.
@@vattghern7592 i have been having back problem for like 2 years now. When I take rest for my lower back the pain goes away after a week or so. I was stubborn and kept trying to deadlift again and squat. Recently even with like 40 kg on the bar for a few reps the next day I had back pain again... I will completely skip this exercise now it's not worth it. know my form is good.
@@jochembraad1760 Have you tried incorporating lower back exercises and stretches? I used to get lower back pain which seemed to be chronic until one day I came across a video by Ben from KneesOverToes. He recommended incorporating more lower back exercises and stretches and since then my lower back pain is nonexistent. I do them thrice a week. I have also incorporated ass-to-grass squats but only using light weights. Some yoga also helps.
@@vattghern7592i think thats the important point here.
You can see it every day in the gym.. so many guys do ego lifting.. and while it can work with dumb machines, it definitely will NOT work with those compound movements with free heavy weights..
People need to have the patience to do those movements with very light weights and go very slowly higher in the numbers.
I think thats the biggest problem people have with those.. just too much ego for keeping the numbers too little for very long..
Also people have shitty forms.. especially men..
Women do way better when it comes to good form!
Awesome. I literally just stopped deadlifting and squatting a few weeks ago. For this exact same reason. Funny how you find the perfect video, from one of your most watched influencers, at the exact time you need to see it. 👏
I don't even watch this channel that often, I've seen a few videos, but that's it. Decided to stop heavy deadlifting and squatting because of lower back pain for around 2-3 days after the training, instead moved on to doing these exercises very lightly with low weight and then focusing my energy on single leg deadlifts (which I feel like have a much lesser impact on your spine) and the romanian split squat with barbells. That was two weeks ago, and today this popped up in my recommendations. The algorithm is real.
@@1latrommI for real bro. It’s amazing how even a thought can lead to the algorithms suggesting a video based on that thought.
My legs got massive from Bulgarian split squats. One of my favorite moments and no back pain.
Facts
Just started doing this exercise. Thanks for this comment it inspired me to hang on to this
It carries over to athleticism a lot better than barbell squats
It carries over to athleticism a lot better than barbell squats
Trap Bar Deadlift
Bulgarian split squat
Reverse lunges
Heel elevated Trap Bar Squat
Good on you for coming out man. I can't imagine how tough it must have been to come out and say this.
This is interesting - my lower back pain vanished and my mobility increased as I DLed and Squatted with (hopefully) proper form. I've also watched my strength increase, but I'm 58 going relatively light and working a number of shoulder and ankle mobility exercises
Kind of similar with me, it made my back feel the best, because the way it strengthens the core also
DL and Squats are not supposed to be heavy lifts. The whole culture of maxing on them IS the problem. Treat them like bicep curls
@@emmanuelalagbala9590 My working sets are not too heavy - I do try a single max rep each week
This is my same experience. Squats and DLs practically erased 90 percent of my back pain and made what was left much more tolerable.
@@chrisnat6467 But when you guys say back pain, does that include blowing your back out and being screwed for weeks after? I've had my back blow out twice, once from moderate squatting (relatively light weight) and then even on leg press. I'm getting older but these days just do leg extensions. Because of the back blow outs, I put squats and really doing legs away after doing legs once per week since 1991. I miss doing them but when I blow my back out, I can't do F all, not even sit comfortably in a chair and lasts for weeks with physio.
Very impressed by Joey D‘s honesty. It should be an obvious truth that not all exercises work for all people and body types. I am 58 yo, 198 cm (6‘6) tall, and screwing up my back in one way or another seemed to be my primary obsession. Deadlifts will have me call my physio within a day after doing them. Squats, however, seem to have largely fixed my lower back problems when I started doing them correctly. As a matter of fact, when I feel a twinge in my back, it is gone after a round of squats whereas leg presses always seem to exacerbate it. I use five finger shoes, which give me a very stable posture, and i had to experiment with leg and foot positions at low weight to find the one that worked for me.
Just the opposite for me . Dead’s fixed my back , squats messed me up … 👍🏻
Came to this same conclusion about two months ago and have felt so much better since. My lower back used to be so beat up after deads and squats, now I do leg presses, DB RDL, goblet squats, etc. and feel so much healthier.
Dude can u plz tell me how did u recover your lower back. Deadlifts and squats fucked my lower back. I have constant pain for 9 months now and somtimes my hips and my hamstrings get numb. And sometimes bending over and stretching makes it worse.
How did u cure lower back?
@@arslaanpasha3334 anytype of spine decompression works I did deadhangs for a while and add some lower back strengthening like the back extension. look up kneesovertoesguy. i heard people do well with an inversion tables but I cant personally atest to that.
@@arslaanpasha3334it sounds like you need to talk to a doctor. 9 months is too long to be hurting. Especially if it was after a specific event happened you need to see a doctor
I've recently stopped big compounds like deadlifts and heavy barbell squats due to complications with 1 or 2 of the disks in my back, had to be smarter with my training to keep mobility 👍 enjoying life being able to get my socks on in record time, sick video as always Joe 🤙
Same I just injured my back doing deadlifts a couple months ago and disc injuries are no joke. They aren't for everybody and you don't need to do them if they don't feel good. In my case deadlifts never felt comfortable possibly because of form and it took an injury to get me to stop lol. And I might not be touching squats possibly ever again I'll see how I recover.
But yeah, it's nice to be able to just do everyday things without pain and you realize how much you miss it when you don't have it. For me right now that means no squats and deadlifts.
@@bksg4ming I'm in the same position with my recovery. I've actually been doing Bioneer's Batman 2021 training routine, and it's great. I highly recommend it if you're experienced with exercise and looking for a new challenge. The only squats I do now are pistol squats (sometimes with a little weight). Otherwise, I've replaced them with lunges. Check that routine out though, its leg day is really good.
I had a very bad disc hernia and sciatica due to poor execution and lack of mobility.I had before my injury an 130kg zercher squat for reps
I recovered from this injury and I improved my mobility and stability,now I can do those movements,and I feel way more stable and better than before the injury.
Just because you have injured spine doesn't mean that those exercices are bad, You don't know how to do them.Everyone should have some basic mobility to be able to perform them safe
@@ir0n_bb170 Or you come back from a sickness/break with an ego, try to do your old lifts, and neglect your form or capability.
That's what happened to me. As you said, the exercise was fine. The issue was how I performed it.
That said, once you get injured, you can recover and continue onward (if possible), or ask yourself, "Why was I deadlifting 160kg?"
I train for MMA and some parkour. I have better performance now without deadlifts and squats. It's because I focus on exercises which specifically apply to the target objective instead of doing something for the sake of doing it. Squat jumps with some weight & lunges are huge for mimicking explosive, kinetic muscle-chain movements like kicks. When I compare them to back squats, I wonder why I bothered when I can reduce my chances of injury and get comparable results.
Deadlifts are fun af, and breaking my record of 160kg is something I want to do once I'm better recovered. But I'm also shocked that, even though I'm recovering, I've surpassed my performance in kicks, punches, etc without deadlifts and squats.
@@ir0n_bb170 I had the same thing myself in my 20s (2 slipped discs and sciatica down both legs) so squats and deadlifts were a no go, finally got spinal surgery i 05 and can perform such movements fine now although still choose not to simply as they are not needed for my own goals. i agree though about feeling more stable. i think when youve had a lower back injury for some time it makes you also alot more aware of correct form on any lift afterward as always conscious of the spine
I swapped out conventional deadlift for RDLs and hip thrust too when working out at home, as it's always been something of an injury risk for me too. If I'm in the gym, I'll do deadlifts with a trap bar for a more neutral spine, similar to the sumo deadlift.
+1 for trap bar, I don't understand why more people don't use it.
Im 67 years old. Ive been weight training since I was 14. On and off. Ive had 8 back surgeries and am fused from L3 to S1. I train twice per week following HIT . I don't do squats or deadlifts. I train on machines. Leg curls and leg extensions. I would do calves but have so much nerve damage I can't. you have a torso much like mine . Its long and subject to injury. Stay healthy your body has to last .
What are you doing for quad and glute growth? I have l4/l5 disk impingements. Leg press, leg extensions cause back pain. Obviously deadlift and back squats are off the table.
@@lifeforgod07 nothing other than the leg extensions and leg curls. I was doing a leg press but I had to stop because it hurt my back. It sucks not to be able to do anything besides that but it is what it is. I may try the leg press again with very light weight and high slow reps and see if that works. If it causes you pain its best not to do it.
@@ksliebe I’ve been doing body weight exercise (Squats, lunges, and Bulgarian split squats:. Has been working well so far. Just wondering what others are doing
@@ksliebe try belt squats...you will thank me
I’ve had back issues with deadlifts and squats. I’m so happy to hear that you can choose to avoid them.
Great video. Great to see someone explaining why they avoid certain lifts. All lifts are just tools, tools to get strong and big. There is zero purpose in worshipping a set few lifts.
I agree that these movements are not for everyone, especially deadlifts. If deadlifting aligned with their goals, I would typically not have my clients do them until later in their training journey and only when I was there to monitor. If we did do them, I would switch them from back squats to front squats, to not tax their back more than needed, and because glutes were already being targeted with hamstrings in the deadlift and the other glute exercises I would have them on.
I actually needed this 3rd back injury - time to train smarter!!
I’m doing exactly the same thing when I’m training and my clients!
front squats are way more demanding on the back than back squats, atleast upper back, of course depends on how you do them
@@andr1 This is true. I bulged a disc in my thoracic spine doing front squats with too much weight and too much forward lean. Now I can't do overhead presses or front squat without disc pain.
Front squats are way more demanding on the back than back squats.
I'm 6'4 so i feel like i get way more from Lunges and isolations for my quads and RDL'S and Rack Pulls for my posterior chain. It's really hard to find advice thats actually honest about individual physiology, height, leverages etc so it's actually nice to see people break out of that mold.
Have you checked out the guys at Mind Pump?
Your short
@@emello4you I’m 6’1 and I assure you a 6’4 guy is very tired
@@VwapTrader I’m 6’4 and I can confirm I’m very tired
I'm the same height and I gave up on barbell squats and I just do leg pressing and dumbell squats.
I never had too many issues with deadlifts and seemed to always do them with good form; but one time, out of the blue, I made a mistake…at least I think I did. Strained my back really bad. Not gonna lie, my back has never really been the same. Have had mild back issues flare up at least once year since…that’s was prob 15 years ago.
😭This just scares the shit outta me to actually deadlift
That's all it takes is one time
@@Stockatic bro be careful even outside the gym it's a risk when you injure your back. Mine has never been the same either I ruined mine at work
@@navajorezathlete1202 appreciate it but this is rlly making me reconsider taking it out my program . I even showed my parents a set once and they said they rlly don’t like me doing it because as said above , all it takes is a single second of non perfect or optimal form to ruin it for a few months or years
@@Stockatic I feel you. I do rack pulls every once and a great while. But, deadlifts are gone forever. TBH, i can’t really tell a difference with the thinks I have replaced them with
I started squatting and deadlifting in my late 50s, mainly because so many people advised me to. I’m finding far more downsides in terms of reduced mobility and lower body pain than the supposed upsides. Watched this two weeks ago and stopped both, since then I am getting far more leg work done , the pain has reduced dramatically and my mobility is already improving again. Many thanks for posting this it has made a big Big difference to this old Dude who plans to keep lifting for many years yet.
Maybe only do one set ? This is what I do at 50 and its working well.
yes! thank you for talking about this!! i had to stop them several months ago after i had the same back injury twice after squatting. when i tell people that i don’t squat or deadlift they look at me like i’m crazy… glad someone in the fitness community is talking about this. you can most definitely get by without them despite them being “essential” compound movements
The only essential lift is the lateral raise!? Or maybe not, until shoulders go...
Essentially they aren't essential hence the name...
Squats are essential tho
@@RJ12347 no
I’ve gotten hurt performing both exercises throughout the years. Back felt like someone struck me with a ball pen hammer. I fought through the pain and still lifted at 50-60% of my normal effort. Fortunately, there is no chronic pain. But, I am more careful The risk is always there. I’m 52 now so, this video is an excuse to look at other options. Thanks for sharing.
I stopped deadlifting a long time ago and felt the benefits immediately. I have two slipped discs and sciatica which has kept me out of the gym for up to 6 months at a time. Now I just keep squats at 60kg's and concentrate on good form. deadlifts I would never go back to, its an injury just waiting to happen. Good video.
I still squat but I've avoided deadlifts for years. The bar just speaks to me. It's like "Hey fella, time to blow your back out."
In all seriousness, I've seen a few advanced lifters state that squats, barbell rows, and weighted chinups provide training for the posterior chain that carries over to the deadlift.
The carryover is enough that some of those lifters can take a break from deadlifts for months at a time without any appreciable losses on that lift (I had a similar experience with taking a 1-month break from rack pulls and any kind of deadlift).
Even with good form, the deadlift felt like shit to me. Always felt so foreign
Squats ok for me but as soon as I started deadlifting my lower back got progressively a little worse (I didn’t realise it on a day by day basis but as Joe said the minor injuries added up - doesn’t help my shitty posture whilst sitting that butchers it even more)
@BES Strength Training Well some things cross over and strength is strength. AlphaDestiny talks about that kind of thing a lot.
Everything goes through vogues. As we get more experienced (older) we pick up some twinges. Also everyone is different in relation to bendability. I would encourage everyone to keep stretching in an educated way as it keeps us going. But I do agree that if an exercise is pulling you back then give it a rest.
Also - a HUGE thing which is rarely discussed is 'the pelvic tilt'.
Very similar experience over a decade of trying with both exercises. I even hired someone who knew what they were doing and said my form/mobility was fine on each, but I always got injured even at lower weights.
Unfortunately, I recently found out I have two degenerating/herniated discs between l4-l5 and l5-s1. I was warned by an orthopedic surgeon to cease vertically loading my spine. So I guess I’ll now be focusing on upper body while walking on toothpicks since I can only do body weight leg exercises. Better than going under the knife at 30 though. Also better than having the crippling sciatica I experienced for 3 months recently recur.
@UCJUm7UEcEFVh3XynPdRXlTA Athletic lifestyle my entire life combined with both parents having spine issues early in their lives as well, it was bound to spring up at some point. No issues in the bedroom though, don’t be calling that on me!
You should try resistance bands. Way easier for spine and joints. Can still load legs perfectly.
I commend you on your bravery. Thank you for sharing and being so vulnerable.
Holy moly, this is such a good video, it is so nice seeing someone not just bursting his opinions into you, and while it would still be nice to have a liiiitle more info into it, it is still nice to actually going through an analysis, advantages disadvantages etc; what's more, doing alternative exercises is good, even if you do, do these movements, it is a good idea to have a switch from time to time and not let the muscle only get adjusted to 1 movement, so it is a healthy thing for everyone
It is also so good how you covered all the critiques that someone might have towards you having problems with these, and really pointing out that at the end of the day, there is a routine for everyone, I personally do both of these and have also been squatting ass to grass for a long time and never have had problems, but know that there are people who feel it bad the second their knees go below 90 degrees, at the end of the day, fitness should be a life-long, long term thing and injury prevention should always be a priority to just getting a bit more out of exercises, since you won't be able to get anything when you don't lift because of pain...
Switching to bulgarian db lunges was one of the best training decisions i made. Thank you!
Bulgarian split squats best leg exercise of all time
@@seanholderby9183 dats how you get das booty.
Maybe you’ll love the ATG Split-squat too
why not do both. My main three exercises on leg day is back squat, hip thrust and bulgarian split squat. Bulgarian split squat is definitrly thr most difficult out of the three
@@IWantToStayAtYourHouse Have you done ATG Split Squats or Reverse Nordics?
I haven't squated or dead lifted for years, and I have also noticed my recovery improving , on top of what you've said.
The risks outway the benefit, for me, as I have no dream of competing.
Same. I have replaced squats with leg Press because of this naturally.
I haven't completely replaced deadlift but now thinking of sticking to dumbbell goodmornings only.
Two back surgeries and I find the Bulgarian Split Squat and carefully performed leg press quite effective. You are not the only person to have the courage to say that squats are not necessarily best. Glad more people are coming around. Squats are great, but other exercises will get the job done if done with intensity.
split squat is probably the single "best" leg exercise all things considered.
@@andersbjrnsen7203 facts
@@bien.mp4 you know it 👍
I am nearly 40 and same story. I've been lifting since I was a teenager and lifted heavy all through my 20s and most of my 30s. Squats and deadlifts wrecked me. I recently got a Rogue GHD and incorporate nearly all of the exercises you mentioned and I feel like a new man. No low back pain, fantastic mobility and flexibility. I want to be able to lift when I'm 70 or even 80 if I live that long and not be in a wheelchair.
hey joe...
spot on. im in the same category as you..
long story short..
heavy squats deadlift messed me up at age 23.
plagued with back problems.. stopped squats and deadlifts 8 years ago..
still get back problems.. but only 2 times a years..
i just got a problem at lower back.. root cause: used to wear a back pack on 1 shoulder when was at school. put a slight curve in my lower back.. buggered me up for heavy lifts on squats and deadlift. end
I was absolutely in love with CrossFit but I hurt my back going max on dead lifts. I stopped working out and went to physical therapy for 3 months. Also I took many instructional classes on proper form because I truly believed it was my fault, but the pain and tightness returns despite my lifts being supervised for proper for. I pass on dead lifts all together now. I’m a single dad, and keeping up with my 6 yr old is very important to me.
I can’t imagine myself ever posting this. We are all proud of you for bravely putting this out. Must’ve taken a lot of strength ❤️❤️
what's so brave about it?
Bro, u dont know how much this vid means, close to tears rn, ive been researching, asking pro trainers, trying these exercises but just failing miserably. thank you for this vid. for real.
You don't need them
I think too many people try to do "proper" range of motion, but what's touted as "correct" doesn't actually suit everyone's physiology. We're all built differently and adjustments are needed. If you really want to anger the youtube fitness echo chamber just tell them to change their ROM. Even if it saves their joints and prevents injury, people will still insist on this one-size-fits-all ROM.
Yeah definitely true. I myself have crazy long forearms and when benching all the way to my chest, my shoulders have to tilt forward like crazy. So i stop like 5-10 cm above my chest. People going crazy saying I don't have range of motion, but atleast im not hurting my shoulders anymore when benching.
@@BazzGamez You load the shoulders more when you stop early from chest, maybe try a wider grip, or just ignore the haters
@@BazzGamez retract your shoulders
What he's talking about it's the reason I started to do leg press and trap bar deadlifts, thanks Joe.
I've had a very similar experience to what Joe's had. Luckily I found the trap bar deadlift and it's my #1 high load exercise. Leg press is another exercise that I can just keep loading up no matter how much my squat suffers from minor injuries. Enjoy lifting and stay safe.
@@fiddlebender88 sorry to hear that about your squat, glad you can still leg press tho!And I love the traditional DL but the trap bar and sumo DL seems so more natural to me
Thanks for being a beacon of vulnerability and bravery in this bleak world. I’m not doing squats ever again. Had the same thing in my lower back. So brave, so strong
he's opened the door for us to be vulnerable :)
Same here
This was very informative. I'm not a body builder but I do enjoy weight training. I hate squats and they never feel that comfortable (and thus not enjoyable). I like deadlifts but I have short arms and small hands so I find that limits my progress. Good to know you can choose other things and still have growth, as it does feel like the fitness community is obsessed with certain exercises and if you don't do them you may as well not work out at all.
Obsessed? It's like faith, religion or a cult!, and no matter how much you do to try to " do it right" it's never enough for them!
I've been battling lower back injuries for years, which these specific lifts have caused. Instead of just stopping these exercises, i've been pressured as i know they're some of the more important lifts. Thank you for making this video Joe, alot of people have the same issue!!!
they are only 'important' lifts if you are into powerlifting. if wanting to just build muscle then they're not needed at all. dorian yates is a perfect example of a mass monster who didn't do squats or deadlifts
The natural squat pattern is normal and should be used, but squatting with a whole ton of weight on your back is just not natural at all. There will never be any point in anyone’s life where your gonna squat to carry something heavy.
One of the best lifting videos I have seen. Good on you Joe Delaney to just say it like it is. Came back to see it again.
Thank you for saying it. I'm 36 now and I wish I had known these things when I as 13. I think I would be so much stronger and injury-free if people were just more honest about drug-use and injuries resulting from lifting to failure each time.
Me too. I'm just 29 and already experiencing some movement issues. My body is very flexible a little bit to my detriment. I'm not experiencing pain and want to keep it that way, using lower weights and paying attention to any signs. I certainly put my body under unnecessary burden when I was younger by wanting to reach new limits and sacrificing form. I regularly used stimulants pre-workout and didn't rest properly. It was part of the lifting culture I grew up in and the internet was full of incorrect information. I'm glad that it's much better nowadays.
Hopefully squat university will pop up with some free face to face coaching for you :)
I’m in a similar position now though, just going through my third attempt at relearning the squat after snapping my shit up last January… and interestingly one leg lunges exasperated the problem.
Deadlifts have never felt right, tried and tried. But my fix was I could learn to master the RDL using a stick as shown in Elliot Hulses videos. I don’t have a rack so I pull it off the floor before getting in the right position. But I look stupid asf deadlifting 110kg with shit form, but then pitch perfect RDLs for like 8 reps.. makes no sense at all hahaha
Thank you for this. Every other person up here is saying you're doing it wrong if you get injured. Truth is we're all different. Our jobs are different. Our backs are different. I've been lifting for over 20 years. And I've had countless injuries. Every time I'd come back to doing dead lift and traditional squats. I'd eventually suffer for it. When you're a mature lifter. You learn to do what's best for you and not what others say. Haven't done dead lift or Traditional squats in years. And everyone tells me I have one of the best physics they've ever seen. At the gym, at work, at my Church. Literally everywhere I go. And I'm all natural.
I only supplement one scoop of protein and creatine after workouts and I eat a lot!!! I could get on stage and compete with the best of them if I was in to that sort of thing. But I could care less. But these two exercises are not necessary to be in great shape. My doctor even told me to avoid them to prevent injury. She was right.
What workouts do you do to replace? Thank u
Hey Leroy Hudson what is your training like? What kind of exercises do u do ? I’m curious to learn some of you technique
Sorry I've been training a lot of people lately. We years crowd. Just received my certification as a personal trainer so I'm late getting back to this. I've been doing what some would call female workouts. Hip thrusts machine, hip abductor and hip adductor. Lunges, front and regular squats on the Smith Machine. Hack squats, and other squat machines single leg leg press. Glute press, glute raises. A lot of women that have big booties at my gym don't even do dead lift or traditional squats. If these workouts work for them. Why not me. As you get older, you learn to lift smarter. Hope this answers your question. Don't be afraid or ashamed to do these workouts. They are killer when done right. They are tough!!! Those women work hard for them booties. Seriously!!!
@@leroyhudson3676 ok I get it so your replacing deadlifts with those.. but what is the rest of your training looking like as well? What do u do majority of the week?
@@justineandserena well it too much to type out my entire work out plan in a week. But this is a small summary of it.
Monday's, chest and arms and abs
Tuesday's, legs
Wednesday's, Rest
Thursday's, Back and shoulders and abs
Friday's, Recap day. A lil bit of everything.
Saturday's, Cardio. Usually running on the treadmill and some glute a couple of glute exercises and one ab workout.
Sunday, Rest
Yeah agreed.. Im 55 this year, been training since my early 20's. I've pretty much tried everything that you speak of here. Swapped them out for Bulgarian split squats with a weighted sand bag (just 10 -20kg) and do 40 ish reps per set.. usually do 6 -8 sets! I tell you that I have almost eliminated back pain and im definitely stronger. As for Dead Lifts I just do RDL's as I don't even need the quad/hammy part of the movement... Its mainly a Latt/back movement anyway, plus I can lift around 20% more without harming my lower back! Body weight lunges are awesome too.. just have to do them to failure.. Great vid, great advice ✅
It’s a good point , this is one of the reasons why Arthur Jones invented the nautilus duo leg press , apart from altering the strength curve , Casey Viator was hurting his neck from having a squat bar resting on his vertebrae, usually upwards of 500lb , the duo squat relieved this by having the resistance rest over the traps 90° difference from the squat bar , there are other ways as you say the leg press ,front squat , etc .
Injured my leg 6 months ago and subsequently had to stop squatting, back has never felt better
Silver lining!
I went through this exact thought process a couple of years ago. The final nail in the coffin for me was during lockdown being stuck without a barbell. I did dumbbell goblet squats and dumbbell Bulgarian split squats at home all of 2020 and it absolutely blew my legs up in a way that barbell back squats never did. I can never honestly say I finished a set of barbell back squats and thought “omg, my quads!”. I always just thought “omg, I want to be sick. Also my knees and back kinda hurt”.
I’m 47 and have been working out for many years. I have a mild scoliosis and have injured my lower back several times trying to master squatting and deadlifting. Why? Everyone praises the benefit’s of them and you feel like you have to do them if you want to get stronger and fitter. This video was a relief to watch and I think it’s an important message. Yes they have great benefits, but also great risks and the same muscles can be worked in a much safer way. So, thank you for this highly appreciated video.👍🏻
No bro do them
They are very important exercises
I really appreciate the video. So many online programs say that squats and deadlifts are required. I have never been able to comfortably incorporate them into my workout. I assume it is because of my form, but my back is always sore when those are part of my workout. I've got 3 kids, a full time job, I volunteer, and therefore I lift in at home with limited equipment. I have been using bulgarian split squats, goblet squats, and squat thrusters to replace the squat. I use RDL to replace deadlift.
Once you get into your mid thirties you’re ok with sacrificing a bit of ego in exchange for a reduced risk of injury. Would rather just build muscle and enjoy life.
Yeah it's a psychological trap and people don't always compare apples to bro apples anyway.
Brag about your 8rm or 5 rm or... don't brag at all and compete with yourself!
Some people brag and then you see their form and it's not so impressive!
It's all kind of toxic I feel but I know others like it...Is it work ethic or genes or drugs anyway...and in what measures...
In my case, after years of struggling with deadlifts (variants too) I came up with the solution of one-legged Romanian deadlifts with dumbbells. This was a great solution!!! I recommend it.
I never bothered doing these exercises in the first place. Good on you for sharing your views on these.
Literally the story of my work out life. Many thanks for this video!
Started with mastering the form (to the best of my abilities), going gradually with the weight increase. Started noticing minor inconvenience in the lower back, wrote it off as muscle soreness. Reached the 100kg deadlift ONCE after months of gradual training. For two weeks I could not straighten my back after leaning forward. 2 weeks later I went back for a 70kg RDL. Months of "rehabilitation followed. Since then doing mostly Bulgarian squats, single leg press and dumbbell lunges. The pain, inconvenience vanished, with similar gains. Cheers!
Joe can we get a techno wobble tutorial I’ve gotten rusty
This is a subject better fitted for his "Joey D" channel
@@ABC-ip6jq Shhhh.
I always try and find the techno wobble video with joey d and tommy b, i think they’re in a car and they have to demonstrate it 😂 never found it.
@@joe_2112 if you find it link it haha
th-cam.com/video/cEkODY0GCwo/w-d-xo.html
At 0:54
I don’t do either and make plenty of gains🙏🏾 There are plenty of alternatives to these lifts
Like what 😐❓
@@yassinyunusa558 Bulgarian split squats
I do leg press, deadlifts, hamstring curls,leg extensions and calf raises. Do you think this is sufficient enough to build a good lower body without squats?
@@STARK0181 Absolutely. Focus on progressive overload on these lifts, get enough cals/protein/sleep and you are on your way
Thanks for this video! I was wondering why my lower back kept hurting me every time I deadlifted. It’s time for me to retire deadlifting.
3 years later, but thank you for sharing this and being so vulnerable :)
I completely empathise with you. Squats and deadlifts had the exact same effect on my lower back muscles and I too no longer do either.
I now concentrate on leg press and Bulgarian split squats with dumbbells. Using dumbbells now means the weight is no longer on my shoulders, so no stress on the lower back.
Great vid, by the way 👍
When squatting make sure your upper back is really tight and the tension on lower back goes
Imagine doing legs in the first place when you could be doing arms
You can instead call them bottom arms
That’s the spirit!
ha, like the opposite of me, im always trying to find a way to squat or deadlift and not have to do curls
Thanks for this video Joe. I actually have similar thoughts. I don't recommend traditional deadlifts to anyone who doesn't want to compete in powerlifting. Can get the same benefit with less chance of injury with a trap bar deadlift.
So glad there's someone out there that's experienced exactly the same as me. I've been contemplating replacing squat and deadlift due to a tight lower back for the past few months/years. I race dirt bikes which requires a lot of time standing up on the bike but found the pain in my lower back almost unbearable. I concluded that my workout programme wasn't conducive to my riding. I've since adjusted my program and, hey presto, back tightness is a lot better.
Bro I rode dirt bikes for Many years. Quit while you're ahead, seriously. I know it sucks to hear it but that's one thing that will tear up your lower back because you're tilted forward and hitting bumps all the time
@@navajorezathlete1202 useful to know because a year after my original post my back is in terrible shape 😔
i also quit deadlifting and squatting, but i found that not overdoing it on Hexbar deadlifts is a realy nice replacement and way less stress on the lower back
My hex bar has been such a back-saver for me for a sumo/conventional deadlift replacement. Also you are very brave etc
I felt like a cheater at first switching to the hex bar, but it feels so much better on my lower back
Omg the hex bar saved my back and feels so much better to lift.
My dude... My guy... Literally every lower back issue I've come across when it comes to squatting and deadlifting is entirely due to holding your breath in the wrong place. You hold it in your chest instead of all the way down in your diaphragm/lower abs. When you do it right, you'll feel your lower back lock up tight. Don't ever release that lock when doing the movement. Just push that breath allllll the way down there (not so far down that it gives you a rectal prolapse, though). Even with bad form, this is how you secure your lower back from injury.
I've helped a dozen guys with their lower back issues by teaching them this (along with some form corrections) and they immediately saw results, putting 20kg on their deadlift immediately, and waking up with a better feeling back.
How do you know when you are rectal prolapsing. Is it the same feeling as trying to shit
This is the correct answer, of course it is buried way down in the comments. Proper bracing is the key to taking the tension off of your lower back!! And it is a skill you have to learn! Tense your core and push against the back of your core with your breath. Stop using a belt until you learn how to do this. You want your abdomen to be as stiff as a board of wood so that the energy can be transferred from the floor to the bar with the greatest efficiency.
can be summed up by just saying "learn the valsalva maneuver and brace properly"
It really is that simple, that and managing fatigue. To be brutally honest, sometimes you just have to literally shut up and lift properly...
I think my stupid ego is not ready yet to stop training back squat. I really see what you mean with proper breathing and bracing, and I think I lack that. I will wait until my lower back feels 100% okay, deload and use pause squat to really make sure I don't do bad reps, then go up in weight again.
Totally agree with this. I don't deadlift, squat or do leg presses. They have a cumulative adverse effect on the lower back. There are plenty of lifters that have had multiple back surgeries. You don't want to go there. A bad back injury can change your life for the worse. I am aghast at some of the deadlifting videos I see on TH-cam.
Leg press only affects your back if you lift heavy
Brave man and god on you. I am the same re squats and deadlifts but also don’t do barbell bench or flys because of shoulder injuries. Views on that would be interesting. Also on the leg press machine you used I did that a few years ago and popped a rib! Painful. Any views or advice as liked the exercise but won’t do it again. I am 62 ans been training for 30 years on and off. The risk reward issue for us older dudes is the biggest issue. Just became a fan of yours.
Shoulders and flies/bench press problems? So can you dip or is that out too? Dip isn't just lower chest upper gets some stimulation.
Consider lying on floor for chest presses and flies like Scooby 1961
who has shoulder problems but a big chest. Not ideal but just accept it and do what you can not what you can't! Push ups can be made harder.
Feet on bench hands on suspension trainer or rings weight in a backpack...see AlphaDestiny...
There are different types of push ups, planche for example...
Oh man I was struggling with lower back pain often from training and exactly as you say I never wanted to accept that it comes from all the stress caused by deadlifts and squats. Even my trainers were always like "nah you just have to stretch more and get stronger". Watching this was quite an eye opener. I really like squatting so I don't want to remove it completely but will take it more easy on them, and deadlifts are getting replaced. Big thanks!
Two years into training hard, I am starting to feel the cumulative effect of minor injuries from deadlifting and squats. At 60, I can no longer game shit like younger men. Thank you for providing alternatives. Keep it up, JoeyD, ya fuckin gangsta, ya.
Heh I am 62 and don’t do either of them either for exactly the reasons here. Also I don’t barbell bench or flys because of my shoulders for the same reasons. At our age is all about protection but I still get a good pump and look much younger than my years thanks to the weights. Nice one my friend.
From my experience, whenever something hurts after training (unless you got injured) you have to stretch the muscle in the near proximity and not the muscle itself. I got rid of plantar fasciitis in no time when I started stretching my calf muscles and whenever I feel lower back pain I know I have to seriously stretch (or foamroll) glutes, hamstrings and hip flexors.
Btw, you've got solid replacement exercises. I like those a lot
I really hurt my back from trying to squat 8 years ago. I've tried multiple times but it always ends up bad again. I love Bulgarian Split Squats, never any back pain and you can actually build up to a lot of load with just dumbbells: since you are using one leg to lift bodyweight + weights, you need less than half the amount of weight you'd use on a normal squat.
Bulgarians have allowed me to put so much more mass since I stopped traditional squatting. You need less weight for each since you’re on one leg at a time and building them individually forces you to improve your balance and core stability. A superior exercise in every way except that you can probably lift a greater total amount of weight with traditional squats.
Try squatting 405 with dumbells
Excellent video. Not all human beings are built the same. The wisdom is in knowing - through careful experimentation - what works for you. The ego has no place in the gym.
DELANEY! I've trained for 52 years now, and I am compelled to say that along with being in great shape, you also have the damnedest unique and pleasant presenter style I've ever witnessed. You very clear, and concise, with an added touch of dry humor. Seriously, if you haven't already done this, please look into acting, or other associated arts. You are a natural for this profession. You posses that certain, "Something", that all really good actors posses. Whatever one wishes to call it, charm, charisma, magnetism, etc.
Whatever it is, You've got it! So, kudos to You, Delaney. I wish You, God's Speed.
He made $1,500 off this video. TH-cam is acting. ;D
Recovery sometimes means stopping a certain movement. I still think reducing the weight instead of stopping altogether is optimal.
You aren't an ego lifter are you, do you have the ego to admit it?
I'm in my 50's and now thinking eight is enough based on the old tv show...because science!
You make me feel much better about my choice to throw away squats and deadlifts from my workouts (I even hate writing this out haha) but I’ve enjoyed my new routines
I quit them both two years ago and my legs are bigger than ever.