@@notany1uknox Indeed! The pronunciation of diphthongs is the main change that Greek experienced over the centuries. Many of my Greek friends cringe when they hear me reading Ancient Greek because of this reason, hahaha
Ηi, I am Greek, I am not a philologist, I am ignorant regarding ancient Greek, ofcourse if you give me an ancient Greek text i can read it but with the modern Greek pronunciation, maybe I will understand few words , few phrases and thats it. I have no idea how differently was it sounded 2500 years ago. I believe the way pronunciation that you were taught is based on solid arguments and it still under academic research and debate. Surely ancient Greek were not sounded as modern Greek. We were taught some ancient Greek in high school in Greece but were not told that were pronounced differently. I deeply respect and admire your knowledges and your efforts to spread this knowledge through here. Your display photo from Athens ? you most welcomed to visit here anytime, best regard from Greece 😊
Thanks a lot for your comments!!! You are right. I've been surprised to find that in Greece in general people are not taught that the pronunciation of the language experimented changes. As you say, it would be very weird if it didn't change, considering that all the rest of the languages had lots of changes in more than two millennia. And yes, my picture is from Athens, hahaha. I really loved being in Greece and I'm looking forward to visiting again!
H ερασμικη προφορα ειναι λαθος εντελως Ο ερασμος νομιζε πως οι Ελληνες μιλουσαν , κατα την εσφαλμενην αποψιν του .. Η προφορα και η Ελληνικη Γλωσσα δεν εχει αλλαξει ως προς την βασιν της τα τελευταια 3000 ετη Την ιδια προφορα ειχαν οι Αθηναιοι πριν 3000 ετη , οι μορφωμενοι κυκλοι την βυζαντινην περιοδον , οπως επι των ημερων μας Η ερασμικη προφορα ειναι βαρβαρικη και λαθος καθως οι Ελληνες ποτε δεν ομιλουσαν σαν γερμανοι Πως προφερονται η λεξεις " χρησιμοποιουνται και χρησιμοποιειται " δια της ερασμικης προφορας ; Ειναι εντελως λαθος ..
One question . 13:03 if the word παῖς is pronounced like you said then why in the hellenistic era didnt they used diaeresis to write it down? Like this Ϊ, ϊ, ϋ , Ϋ ? it should be written like this παῗς according to your pronounciation . Also Thucydides mentions that in the time of the Peloponnesian War "ι" and "οι" sounded the same. Any comments on that? Thank you
Hi! Thanks a lot for your question. Do you have that reference by Thucydides, by any chance? I would love to check it out. As for your question, in the convention I'll use the diaeresis only to indicate a separation of syllables in a diphthong (i.e. a syllable that contains two vowels). Think of our modern languages and their approach to this issue. How different is to pronounce "stadium" or "stadïum"? Even English sometimes imports foreign words with the diaeresis like "naïve", but if you said "naive", the sound wouldn't change dramatically. This could reflect a normal transition, I imagine, from the Classical to the Hellenistic period.
@@ChihonTeaches hello ! Thanks for the response. This is the reference from Thucidides. And he is actually saying that the saying was very old and because it was not written it was passing from generation to generation with spoken word they could not agree which one of the two words was referring to λοιμός or λιμός. Ιστορίαι 2 47-54 2.54.2] ἐν δὲ τῷ κακῷ οἷα εἰκὸς ἀνεμνήσθησαν καὶ τοῦδε τοῦ ἔπους, φάσκοντες οἱ πρεσβύτεροι πάλαι ᾄδεσθαι «ἥξει Δωριακὸς πόλεμος καὶ λοιμὸς ἅμ᾽ αὐτῷ.» [2.54.3] ἐγένετο μὲν οὖν ἔρις τοῖς ἀνθρώποις μὴ λοιμὸν ὠνομάσθαι ἐν τῷ ἔπει ὑπὸ τῶν παλαιῶν, ἀλλὰ λιμόν, ἐνίκησε δὲ ἐπὶ τοῦ παρόντος εἰκότως λοιμὸν εἰρῆσθαι· οἱ γὰρ ἄνθρωποι πρὸς ἃ ἔπασχον τὴν μνήμην ἐποιοῦντο. ἢν δέ γε οἶμαί ποτε ἄλλος πόλεμος καταλάβῃ Δωρικὸς τοῦδε ὕστερος καὶ ξυμβῇ γενέσθαι λιμόν, κατὰ τὸ εἰκὸς οὕτως ᾄσονται.
I’m really confused.. this is neither modern nor Ancient Greek pronounciation you read some letters with their Ancient Greek and others with their modern Greek value and then there’s zeta with the zd or dz pronounciation being archaic even for attic Greek I think
Nice try but you made some pronunciation errors: Letter Ττ (ταυ) is taf not taou! αυ either is pronounced af, either av. The word παῖς is pronounced pes. Αι togheter is sound heavy "ε" To pronounce seperently you have to see ι like this ϊ. And something about Γγ. You pronounce it wrong when you present the letter Γ as "γκ" but you pronouce it correctly when you say the word ὀλίγος! About Υυ is not ou (ου) is more sound like (ι) and not very strong the "h" sound. Xχ is just h sound without κ. Generaly pronunciation is a difficult part of greek language and only those who stay for a long time in Greece can learn it. This is a note καλῇ τῇ προθέσει (=with good intention)
Thanks a lot for these comments. I get your feedback, since I've been living with Greeks for the last 3 years. This pronunciation I use is the standard in academia to study Ancient Greek, which is called Erasmian pronunciation. What you said is completely correct if we were to pronunce the Ancient Greek words as people do nowadays in Greece. I have a conversation about this topic with one of my Greek friends in another video. Go check it out and let me know what you think!
@@ChihonTeaches Why do they still use such an outdated and wrong pronunciation as the Erasmian? Is it their west European superiority complex that wants to make ancient Greek sound more "Germanic"?
@@randomstuff1315 No, not at all. I think the reason is more practical than narcissistic, as you suggest. This way of pronouncing Ancient Greek has been the norm in academic contexts for at least more than a century. Therefore, in order to change it, a huge worldwide effort is required in order to achieve this as a universal convention. How would you do that in every country at the same time, so that in the end everyone would start pronouncing differently? Since scholars are more interested in understanding what the texts say rather than pronouncing it perfectly, concerns about pronunciation are not a priority.
@@ChihonTeaches The whole point in reconstructing the ancient pronunciation is reconstructing the actual ancient pronunciation and not communication in real life though. Just because it has been the norm it does not make it right. Just like how the NAZIS made propaganda that the ancient Greeks were "blue eyed tall Germanic looking people", it was the norm for them but it was still wrong. They cannot call it a reconstruction of the ancient pronunciation when its only used because they are used to it and for "practical" reasons. It should be called something else to not mislead people because if we have data that the pronunciation isn't as accurate as other ones then it should be updated or abandoned. If they are interested in understanding the texts instead then i don't see any reason why they should stick to the Erasmian pronunciation except being outdated and used to it
Συγχαρητήρια, very good try especially for a non native.... There were some minor mistakes though.... For instance, there isn't "ΓΚ" in Greek pronunciation so ΓΑΜΟΣ (marriage) is not pronounced ΓΚΑΜΟΣ.... the letter Γ is pronounced much softer that the Latin G in Greek. By the way, the Latin alphabet is just a variation of the Greek alphabet....The Latin alphabet evolved from the visually similar Etruscan alphabet, which evolved from the Cumaean Greek version of the Greek alphabet (αλφάβητο της Κύμης).
It is indeed. It's the standard way in which Ancient Greek is taught around the world, with the exception of several places in Greece. I have a video where I discuss the differences in pronunciation here: th-cam.com/video/vDojnOSporE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=6b8pZifpcYmrbMbi
In my latest video about diphthongs and breathings I address this issue of the pronunciation again. Do check it out: th-cam.com/video/95C-7iCCbRo/w-d-xo.html&t
There is no erasmian pronunciation my friend every single country of Europe pronounce Greek as they find it convenient according to their language English would pronounce θ as th as they have it in their language, french and German say only t this is not a determined pronunciation it is Greek spoken with English German french or Italian pronunciation rules
The erasmian pronunciation is false and isn't Greek The erasmian pronunciation is barbarian The pronunciation in ancient and modern Greek is the same The video is wrong
That’s just wrong. Ancient Greek did sound different many modern Greeks who learn Ancient Greek just pronounce them as what feels most natural to them .
@@hanskotto8630 read the Greek words " Χρησιμοποιουνται " and " Χρησιμοποιειται " in the erasmian pronunciation .. WRONG The official Athenian pronunciation is the same the last 3000 years The erasmian pronunciation is barbarian and heavy , it's like bulgarians speak The Greeks never spoke like germans The erasmian pronunciation isn't Greek
![Conversation: Ancient Greek vs. Modern Greek [SUB ESP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vDojnOSporE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Conversation: Ancient Greek vs. Modern Greek [SUB ESP]](/img/tr.png)
![Learn Ancient Greek: Introduction to Accents [SUB ESP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z8gTz051euU/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you like this content? You can now support my channel buying me a coffee!!!
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ty will be using these to sound out my interlinear ancient greek bible.
Amazing!
@@ChihonTeaches epsilon is definitely the hardest to pronounce. Not so much independently, but when it's next to anything haha.
@@notany1uknox Indeed! The pronunciation of diphthongs is the main change that Greek experienced over the centuries. Many of my Greek friends cringe when they hear me reading Ancient Greek because of this reason, hahaha
Very Good Teaching On Your Part
Thank you so much!!! Your encouragement keeps me going!
Wonderful video I really enjoyed it!
Thank you so much!!!
I hope you like the rest of the channel too. Have a great day!
For the impatient, the alphabet begins near time index 3:05
Ηi, I am Greek, I am not a philologist, I am ignorant regarding ancient Greek, ofcourse if you give me an ancient Greek text i can read it but with the modern Greek pronunciation, maybe I will understand few words , few phrases and thats it. I have no idea how differently was it sounded 2500 years ago. I believe the way pronunciation that you were taught is based on solid arguments and it still under academic research and debate. Surely ancient Greek were not sounded as modern Greek. We were taught some ancient Greek in high school in Greece but were not told that were pronounced differently. I deeply respect and admire your knowledges and your efforts to spread this knowledge through here. Your display photo from Athens ? you most welcomed to visit here anytime, best regard from Greece 😊
Thanks a lot for your comments!!!
You are right. I've been surprised to find that in Greece in general people are not taught that the pronunciation of the language experimented changes. As you say, it would be very weird if it didn't change, considering that all the rest of the languages had lots of changes in more than two millennia.
And yes, my picture is from Athens, hahaha. I really loved being in Greece and I'm looking forward to visiting again!
H ερασμικη προφορα ειναι λαθος εντελως
Ο ερασμος νομιζε πως οι Ελληνες μιλουσαν , κατα την εσφαλμενην αποψιν του ..
Η προφορα και η Ελληνικη Γλωσσα δεν εχει αλλαξει ως προς την βασιν της τα τελευταια 3000 ετη
Την ιδια προφορα ειχαν οι Αθηναιοι πριν 3000 ετη , οι μορφωμενοι κυκλοι την βυζαντινην περιοδον , οπως επι των ημερων μας
Η ερασμικη προφορα ειναι βαρβαρικη και λαθος καθως οι Ελληνες ποτε δεν ομιλουσαν σαν γερμανοι
Πως προφερονται η λεξεις " χρησιμοποιουνται και χρησιμοποιειται " δια της ερασμικης προφορας ; Ειναι εντελως λαθος ..
@@ChihonTeaches not , it's the same ...
@@Llyebbay I don't think its the same but surely not alienated either
@@kapoioskapoiou8631 it's the same Language
Thank you so much for your very interesting and informative video.
My pleasure!
Muy bueno! Me gustó mucho la explicación de upsilon, me quedó clarito. Gracias por compartir tus conocimientos con la pipol querido didáskalos
¡Una hemorragia de placer!
Thanks a lot for very interesting channel.
Thank you very much for your comment!!!
One question . 13:03 if the word παῖς is pronounced like you said then why in the hellenistic era didnt they used diaeresis to write it down? Like this Ϊ, ϊ, ϋ , Ϋ ? it should be written like this παῗς according to your pronounciation .
Also Thucydides mentions that in the time of the Peloponnesian War "ι" and "οι" sounded the same.
Any comments on that? Thank you
Hi! Thanks a lot for your question. Do you have that reference by Thucydides, by any chance? I would love to check it out.
As for your question, in the convention I'll use the diaeresis only to indicate a separation of syllables in a diphthong (i.e. a syllable that contains two vowels). Think of our modern languages and their approach to this issue. How different is to pronounce "stadium" or "stadïum"? Even English sometimes imports foreign words with the diaeresis like "naïve", but if you said "naive", the sound wouldn't change dramatically. This could reflect a normal transition, I imagine, from the Classical to the Hellenistic period.
@@ChihonTeaches hello ! Thanks for the response. This is the reference from Thucidides.
And he is actually saying that the saying was very old and because it was not written it was passing from generation to generation with spoken word they could not agree which one of the two words was referring to λοιμός or λιμός.
Ιστορίαι 2 47-54
2.54.2] ἐν δὲ τῷ κακῷ οἷα εἰκὸς ἀνεμνήσθησαν καὶ τοῦδε τοῦ ἔπους, φάσκοντες οἱ πρεσβύτεροι πάλαι ᾄδεσθαι «ἥξει Δωριακὸς πόλεμος καὶ λοιμὸς ἅμ᾽ αὐτῷ.» [2.54.3] ἐγένετο μὲν οὖν ἔρις τοῖς ἀνθρώποις μὴ λοιμὸν ὠνομάσθαι ἐν τῷ ἔπει ὑπὸ τῶν παλαιῶν, ἀλλὰ λιμόν, ἐνίκησε δὲ ἐπὶ τοῦ παρόντος εἰκότως λοιμὸν εἰρῆσθαι· οἱ γὰρ ἄνθρωποι πρὸς ἃ ἔπασχον τὴν μνήμην ἐποιοῦντο. ἢν δέ γε οἶμαί ποτε ἄλλος πόλεμος καταλάβῃ Δωρικὸς τοῦδε ὕστερος καὶ ξυμβῇ γενέσθαι λιμόν, κατὰ τὸ εἰκὸς οὕτως ᾄσονται.
Great stuff , more sample words, keep up the good work
Thank you! I'll do my best to keep it up!
I’m really confused.. this is neither modern nor Ancient Greek pronounciation you read some letters with their Ancient Greek and others with their modern Greek value and then there’s zeta with the zd or dz pronounciation being archaic even for attic Greek I think
I think the first letter γ in your example of γάμος (gamos) should be sounded like the letter γ of the letter ωμέγα
por google fácilmente se encuentra la anabasis bilingüe, para practicar.. muchas gracias!!!!
Muchas gracias por comentar esto aquí. ¡Mucha suerte con tu griego!
Nice try but you made some pronunciation errors: Letter Ττ (ταυ) is taf not taou! αυ either is pronounced af, either av. The word παῖς is pronounced pes. Αι togheter is sound heavy "ε" To pronounce seperently you have to see ι like this ϊ. And something about Γγ. You pronounce it wrong when you present the letter Γ as "γκ" but you pronouce it correctly when you say the word ὀλίγος! About Υυ is not ou (ου) is more sound like (ι) and not very strong the "h" sound. Xχ is just h sound without κ. Generaly pronunciation is a difficult part of greek language and only those who stay for a long time in Greece can learn it. This is a note καλῇ τῇ προθέσει (=with good intention)
Thanks a lot for these comments. I get your feedback, since I've been living with Greeks for the last 3 years. This pronunciation I use is the standard in academia to study Ancient Greek, which is called Erasmian pronunciation. What you said is completely correct if we were to pronunce the Ancient Greek words as people do nowadays in Greece. I have a conversation about this topic with one of my Greek friends in another video. Go check it out and let me know what you think!
@@ChihonTeaches Why do they still use such an outdated and wrong pronunciation as the Erasmian? Is it their west European superiority complex that wants to make ancient Greek sound more "Germanic"?
@@randomstuff1315 No, not at all. I think the reason is more practical than narcissistic, as you suggest. This way of pronouncing Ancient Greek has been the norm in academic contexts for at least more than a century. Therefore, in order to change it, a huge worldwide effort is required in order to achieve this as a universal convention. How would you do that in every country at the same time, so that in the end everyone would start pronouncing differently? Since scholars are more interested in understanding what the texts say rather than pronouncing it perfectly, concerns about pronunciation are not a priority.
@@ChihonTeaches The whole point in reconstructing the ancient pronunciation is reconstructing the actual ancient pronunciation and not communication in real life though. Just because it has been the norm it does not make it right. Just like how the NAZIS made propaganda that the ancient Greeks were "blue eyed tall Germanic looking people", it was the norm for them but it was still wrong.
They cannot call it a reconstruction of the ancient pronunciation when its only used because they are used to it and for "practical" reasons. It should be called something else to not mislead people because if we have data that the pronunciation isn't as accurate as other ones then it should be updated or abandoned.
If they are interested in understanding the texts instead then i don't see any reason why they should stick to the Erasmian pronunciation except being outdated and used to it
@09I60 Desiderius Erasmus was Dutch and not Italian. Etruscans are not Germanic people.
Don't say hellas or helios is better if you say elios or ellas dont read "h"
And the leatters Μ Ν Ξ for examble read it as " ME " ΚSE " NE in English.
Συγχαρητήρια, very good try especially for a non native.... There were some minor mistakes though.... For instance, there isn't "ΓΚ" in Greek pronunciation so ΓΑΜΟΣ (marriage) is not pronounced ΓΚΑΜΟΣ.... the letter Γ is pronounced much softer that the Latin G in Greek.
By the way, the Latin alphabet is just a variation of the Greek alphabet....The Latin alphabet evolved from the visually similar Etruscan alphabet, which evolved from the Cumaean Greek version of the Greek alphabet (αλφάβητο της Κύμης).
This is Erasmian pronunciation from the 16th century.
It is indeed. It's the standard way in which Ancient Greek is taught around the world, with the exception of several places in Greece. I have a video where I discuss the differences in pronunciation here: th-cam.com/video/vDojnOSporE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=6b8pZifpcYmrbMbi
Ancient and Modern Greek Alphabet is the same, it hasn't CHANGED!!. You must mean get to know that vulgar Erasmus pronunciation of Greek.
In my latest video about diphthongs and breathings I address this issue of the pronunciation again. Do check it out: th-cam.com/video/95C-7iCCbRo/w-d-xo.html&t
There is no erasmian pronunciation my friend every single country of Europe pronounce Greek as they find it convenient according to their language English would pronounce θ as th as they have it in their language, french and German say only t this is not a determined pronunciation it is Greek spoken with English German french or Italian pronunciation rules
@@werterester2375 There is an Erasmus pronounciation of Ancient Greek, my friend, I suggest you inform yourself.
The erasmian pronunciation is false and isn't Greek
The erasmian pronunciation is barbarian
The pronunciation in ancient and modern Greek is the same
The video is wrong
That’s just wrong. Ancient Greek did sound different many modern Greeks who learn Ancient Greek just pronounce them as what feels most natural to them .
@@hanskotto8630 read the Greek words " Χρησιμοποιουνται " and " Χρησιμοποιειται " in the erasmian pronunciation .. WRONG
The official Athenian pronunciation is the same the last 3000 years
The erasmian pronunciation is barbarian and heavy , it's like bulgarians speak
The Greeks never spoke like germans
The erasmian pronunciation isn't Greek
@@hanskotto8630 please , read in the erasmian pronunciation " Η ΤΑΥΤΗΝ Η ΕΠΙ ΤΑΥΤΗΝ "
@@hanskotto8630 read in the erasmian pronunciation the words" χρησιμοποιουνται & χρησιμοποιειται "