this was a really great podcast, as always. thank you both so much. really appreciate it. and you two doing it remotely doesn't matter to me, it doesn't take away what you guys are talking about ♥(which is what a podcast is about anyway ♥)
I remember even until last year all groups only had one title track and sometimes a b-side to promote without an MV, just music show stages if anything. I think that started to change last year with New Jean's debut which had 3 title tracks and 4 MVs as well as Blackpink's three songs which all had MVs as well. Then New Jeans came back again with an absolutely game changing pre-release (Ditto) and ever since then it's like groups can't stop trying to do the same, they feel forced to do it.
As a sakura ult, I do agree that she is being a bit mismanaged, and I’m glad people are saying something but in the long run I don’t think it’s gonna help at all.
Or do the boycott as loona fans... But the parasocial relationships that you have with them could make it hard. Luckily, I'm not a collector and I barely stream because I have a busy life but it's like been in a hard place and a rock
I totally agree with the album collection thing. I be seeing people buy albums for every single group they listen to and buying all the versions. I could never. The only group I have a full collection for is my ult group and even then I don’t have every version for every album or every single piece of merch that exists
Albums with a set of photocards with 1 for each member are Superior, Like ok have different versions but a Set at least, Like why have a single photocards with a group of more that 10 members
I feel like slow n steady is very much the way to go with collecting anything. I'm very glad my parents pushed me to focus on school & instead of working in High school/college cause if I had a job back then I definitely would of brought every album under the sun. I feel like only being able to ask for albums for Christmas & bdays or only be able to buy when I a saved up money. Really helped me stop & look at who I TRULY do like and buy albums/merch from. I still kind of carry that with. You will never see an album on my shelf from a group I casually listen to or feel eh about. I truly love the groups on my Kpop shelf. Not to mention it just makes it more personal as well. Like rip BAP's first full length album from my DEAD HANDS that's the first Kpop album I brought woth my own money. I also feel like were in such a different era to. I have been a fan since 2nd gen and I remember when we would get one ablum and then later in the year a repackage. PCs started to be a thing but there weren't that many (I randomly decided to collect all of Zelo's(BAP) PCs and on the template there are literally 32 PCs from ALL the albums BAP had released.) Now a days you have 4 ver, a digi pack, jewl cases. There's more temptation to buy then back then (I personally just stick with album ver.) People had collections but I feel like showing them off was very rare but now a days it's not only the norm but a flex as well. Aesthetics also play a role, I think alot of people see how nice the shelfs look, how many albums they have & I think they think they NEED that. So they kind of buy ALOT instead of taking time to build a collection, with stuff thwy truly like. This conversation has been happening in the manga community as well. As a post blew up where someone had 1000+ manga but admitted to not having read ANY of them. They were also asking for recommendations. It was interesting seeing people react cause alot of people pointed out how it's was full of just mainstream manga & alot of people were saying that collections reflect who you are as a person in a sense. You can kind of gauge what genre they like or if they dont read a certain type of manga. But alot of people said his collection looked dead or didn't have a personality. I haven't seen that said for Kpop but I thought it was interesting to add.
Idk if it's fair to say that hype really drowns the critical view towards art and fans consume whatever being spoon fed to them. And it's also crucial which given that pop is meant to be heard everywhere and "aggressive marketing" still adds to it where the quality of the outcome will always be on its crucial point. Fandom culture just make people disregard those points before consuming such contents.
Whoever wrote about teaser schedules being bad is just stupid. More than killing the hype, they generate hype but yeah over releases like NJ is just too much. Perfect example of bside being more popular than title track is Illusion by aespa more than Girls. Unforgiven did better in charts compared to bside but in internet its more popular bcs of dance challenge. Same goes to TXT's Anti romantic and Lovesong. Pre release killing hype of comeback is true for some but mostly its not. How u like that was more impactful than Lovesick girls, same for Pink venom and Shut down but for Ive it wasn't same. I am is running for SOTY and did way better than Kitcsh. Same for aespa, Welcome to my world was totally different from tt i.e. Spicy which also did well than former. But i think time gap between songs also determine the results.
What I do is I listen to the whole album on spotify, and then if I like all the songs, then I blog those albums as my favorites of the year (I also do something similar for MVs). Anyway, I'll try to buy those albums eventually.
the only groups i buy every version of their albums for are my top 3 ult groups but even then, i sometimes feel fatigued. aside from ateez, i have no interest in going back and buying every version of their old albums either. collecting sm groups especially is a nightmare since they produce member versions of EVERYTHING so i just buy my bias and move on. i cannot imagine the horrors of collecting otx for a group like nct where there's always at least 2 photobook versions, member jewel cases AND member sminis. it gets to the point where it feels like you're living in an sm warehouse
The amount of DOPAMINE i got when i found out there was a new episode of the podcast. i wanted to say that I think it was weird that JYPe released basically three music videos for Itzy's recent album and i think it is affecting their views. i think it is TOO much itzy content from JYPe in such a small amount of time.
A lot of the points making is really just marketing from the company side. Its all to hype up for both teasers and pre releases, but its also necessary online content to turn on the algorithm by release date. The "hype" is basically getting the ball rolling for key words like the artist, the song title, the album title and everything related so that it pops up in searches or get heavily suggested and gets inserted in people's timelines. Its how you get random ads of something you're not interested in or a series of people end up talking about this random group and it trickles into your end of the internet. Its basically how marketing strategies evolved over the years. Yes, 2nd and 3rd gen groups just drop something and its a big success... thats becuse kpop and entertainment wasnt so saturated. You cant do something like that in 4-5th gen and expect amazing results unless you pay for SEO services to shove your new release up the searches. Taking away the hype may just be that some fans are exhausted/overwhelmed from the constant supply of information. Like a dopamine fix finally loosing its buzz because you've had a "scheduled" dose for a month or however long the pre-release info has been running that by the time the album/mv releases you're already tired.
something that annoys me that I don't see a lot of people talkinga abt is idols doing a million tiktoks with the same dance a blank white background or at the dance studio and with every kpop idol. Even groups I don't follow are usually on my fyp and it's annoying. like I know doing the tiktoks is part of promotion but I think there are definitely ways they could make them more entertaining and come off as a bit more authentic
The fansign thing really gets me, I wish that fansign and calls were less wasteful. Like, I feel that everyone should really just have one chance, fair and square for everyone and if someone wants more copies or does a group order, then that's fine. There is definitely someone out here that is willing to pay for the VIP meet&greet at concerts, so why not do a similar thing with the fansigns/calls more? I mean i get the business but dang...every industry out here producing too much waste
I stopped watching any teaser/spoiler a while ago, because if they spoil too much like jyp then it ruins the excitement and surprise for me. So i dont listen to highlight medleys, mv teasers, etc. The last time i did was for LMLT by nmixx and it completely ruined the experience of the comeback for me. Now i dont care who it is, i dont listen to teasers...
Kpop fans are so weird. All western acts have many preleases months in advance before an album is released They are just considered singles off the album. It’s so weird how Kpop stans act like they can’t listen to more then one song off an album. It’s also stupid how they think every song that’s not a title track is just an unimportant b-side and should automatically be lower quality. You don’t see fans act like that with artists from other music industries. I don’t get how the different releases is confusing for people unless they are young kids and only listen to Kpop
I feel the whole "schedule" came into being because of how numbers (streaming, Billboard, Melon, KTown4U, etc.) became such a focus. That drives awards on music shows, end-of-year awards, #1 on western charts, #1 All Kill on Korean charts, etc. But it doesn't impact western radio or western awards and that is a very sore spot. BTS and even TXT manage to do well despite the push back (won't get into that, like I said, a sore spot). Essentially, KPOP is fan-based, yes?? Fans drive the popularity, sales, consumption, tickets, streaming, all of it. New Jeans managed to break the cycle by not doing a schedule but they still have a solid fan base. KPOP will always be a business; if I knew how it would evolve, I'd be rich, but I don't and I'm not.
It feels like the pre-release is a way to do ”double title tracks” but with the single title track benefits. Like Ateez Fever era were hindered in M2/Studio Choom etc promotions because they literally didn’t know which tt would be their first one until maybe 2 weeks before the comeback. The one exception during Fever was Fireworks because it was a single tt. I personally don’t like it, all I see is more work for the idols (compared to a single mv promo), especially if they do 3+ mvs like Stray Kids have been doing for how many years now?
Protest trucks because Korean laws are very different. For example you need a permit to protest and these things work better for the korean public in a way it doesnt interfere with people's lives and is directed to the people that need to hear it. I think there's just a lot more on Korean Culture and how their side of the internet works, like media play and stuff, that international fans are just not aware of. its just like how if international stans protest... its usually done by trending hashtags or mass emailing.
I prefer bsides having mvs after the release of the album without a lot of promotion so that the title stands out, but the wrong way would be how nmixx does it, their expergo album has 4 music videos in total and no one knows about them cause they don’t even post about them on their social media, many of them don’t even have 4 million views
Maybe tripleS has a point with NFTs. Basically you buy points with which you can vote for the future of the group. At least this doesn’t cause overconsumption
The argument that the B side and pre releases take away from the comeback makes no sense. The title track is not the comeback itself. The comeback is the album, and all the content associated with it. The title is supposed to bring in the most hype, but pre releases and b sides add to that. If they do better than the title, that takes nothing away from the idols. It actually just adds to the overall success of the comeback.
I don't completely with the opinion read about the clothes but kpop fashion dies seem to follow almost every single microtrend there currently is and makes them more popular in that way it kind of does influence buying mire stuff maybe
the person talking about pre releases is so right cuz i listen to nmixx’s roller coaster RELIGIOUSLY yet i still havent heard their actual clmeback song party o whatever 🫣
What I’m getting from a lot posts is that people care more about the hype and streams over getting more content lol. Idc if I Am got so many views, I’m more happy I got Kitch as well.
I remember even until last year all groups only had one title track and sometimes a b-side to promote without an MV, just music show stages if anything. I think that started to change last year with New Jean's debut which had 3 title tracks and 4 MVs as well as Blackpink's two songs which both had MVs. Then New Jeans came back again with an absolutely game changing pre-release (Ditto) and ever since then it's like groups can't stop trying to do the same, they feel forced to do it.
Newjeans are basic. Can u see their songs gains slow & less views in some like global platform like youtube💀💀. Because not all like newjeans songs. They sound kids songs/nursery songs. Only 12 years & under like their songs. Also, people who has childish taste level like their songs. It's not my cup of tea. It's so embarassing for me to play it outside. It's so childish sound😬😬😬. They also don't look fierce while they perform. The 4th gen girl groups exude fierce aura & performed fiercly are Le Sserafim, Gidle & Itzy. Aespa & Stayc is okay. NMIXX probably okay. Ive no same as Newjeans no!
I remember even until last year all groups only had one title track and sometimes a b-side to promote without an MV, just music show stages if anything. I think that started to change last year with New Jean's debut which had 3 title tracks and 4 MVs as well as Blackpink's three songs which all had MVs as well. Then New Jeans came back again with an absolutely game changing pre-release (Ditto) and ever since then it's like groups can't stop trying to do the same, they feel forced to do it.
this was a really great podcast, as always. thank you both so much. really appreciate it.
and you two doing it remotely doesn't matter to me, it doesn't take away what you guys are talking about ♥(which is what a podcast is about anyway ♥)
thank you, i’m so glad it’s not a deal breaker! haha
I miss you both together but so glad Audrey can GIVE US CONTENTTT from the comfort of her home
It's nice that Audrey doesn't have to drive from almost Russia every time now! 😂
Saves a lot on gas 👀
Russia!?!?!?
I thought they were French. ☠️
@@phoenixmorphixi think she is
@@phoenixmorphixi legit think they are canadian 😂
In the book Community there is this thing about how reading books and buying books are 2 diffrent hobbies, kind of applies to kpop albums too😂
hahahahah this is so real!
I remember even until last year all groups only had one title track and sometimes a b-side to promote without an MV, just music show stages if anything. I think that started to change last year with New Jean's debut which had 3 title tracks and 4 MVs as well as Blackpink's three songs which all had MVs as well. Then New Jeans came back again with an absolutely game changing pre-release (Ditto) and ever since then it's like groups can't stop trying to do the same, they feel forced to do it.
Omg I didn’t even know ditto was a pre release
As a sakura ult, I do agree that she is being a bit mismanaged, and I’m glad people are saying something but in the long run I don’t think it’s gonna help at all.
It can help if a huge amount of people boycott like what Loona fans did.
Instead of protest trucks they should buy stocks like super junior fans. If you want to make change Get in that board room
Or do the boycott as loona fans... But the parasocial relationships that you have with them could make it hard. Luckily, I'm not a collector and I barely stream because I have a busy life but it's like been in a hard place and a rock
ooh.. yeah, they could do that 😂
I totally agree with the album collection thing. I be seeing people buy albums for every single group they listen to and buying all the versions. I could never. The only group I have a full collection for is my ult group and even then I don’t have every version for every album or every single piece of merch that exists
I love lovesick girls and I can't believe it came out in 2020, it feels like it came out more recent
Albums with a set of photocards with 1 for each member are Superior, Like ok have different versions but a Set at least, Like why have a single photocards with a group of more that 10 members
Most Concept photos & teaser videos in kpop really have nothing related to the MV. They all look like brand endorsements & fashion photoshoots.
I feel like slow n steady is very much the way to go with collecting anything. I'm very glad my parents pushed me to focus on school & instead of working in High school/college cause if I had a job back then I definitely would of brought every album under the sun.
I feel like only being able to ask for albums for Christmas & bdays or only be able to buy when I a saved up money. Really helped me stop & look at who I TRULY do like and buy albums/merch from. I still kind of carry that with. You will never see an album on my shelf from a group I casually listen to or feel eh about. I truly love the groups on my Kpop shelf. Not to mention it just makes it more personal as well. Like rip BAP's first full length album from my DEAD HANDS that's the first Kpop album I brought woth my own money.
I also feel like were in such a different era to. I have been a fan since 2nd gen and I remember when we would get one ablum and then later in the year a repackage. PCs started to be a thing but there weren't that many (I randomly decided to collect all of Zelo's(BAP) PCs and on the template there are literally 32 PCs from ALL the albums BAP had released.) Now a days you have 4 ver, a digi pack, jewl cases. There's more temptation to buy then back then (I personally just stick with album ver.)
People had collections but I feel like showing them off was very rare but now a days it's not only the norm but a flex as well. Aesthetics also play a role, I think alot of people see how nice the shelfs look, how many albums they have & I think they think they NEED that. So they kind of buy ALOT instead of taking time to build a collection, with stuff thwy truly like.
This conversation has been happening in the manga community as well. As a post blew up where someone had 1000+ manga but admitted to not having read ANY of them. They were also asking for recommendations.
It was interesting seeing people react cause alot of people pointed out how it's was full of just mainstream manga & alot of people were saying that collections reflect who you are as a person in a sense. You can kind of gauge what genre they like or if they dont read a certain type of manga. But alot of people said his collection looked dead or didn't have a personality. I haven't seen that said for Kpop but I thought it was interesting to add.
The “liz fiasco” referred to in that post was when they gave her basically no lines in kitsch and then all the lines in I AM
I honestly really like teaser schedules, I always look forward to the time the teaser comes and go to their Instagram on time
Idk if it's fair to say that hype really drowns the critical view towards art and fans consume whatever being spoon fed to them.
And it's also crucial which given that pop is meant to be heard everywhere and "aggressive marketing" still adds to it where the quality of the outcome will always be on its crucial point.
Fandom culture just make people disregard those points before consuming such contents.
Another bside that was premoted without and mv that i can remember is Forever young and Dont know what to do
Whoever wrote about teaser schedules being bad is just stupid. More than killing the hype, they generate hype but yeah over releases like NJ is just too much.
Perfect example of bside being more popular than title track is Illusion by aespa more than Girls. Unforgiven did better in charts compared to bside but in internet its more popular bcs of dance challenge. Same goes to TXT's Anti romantic and Lovesong.
Pre release killing hype of comeback is true for some but mostly its not. How u like that was more impactful than Lovesick girls, same for Pink venom and Shut down but for Ive it wasn't same. I am is running for SOTY and did way better than Kitcsh. Same for aespa, Welcome to my world was totally different from tt i.e. Spicy which also did well than former. But i think time gap between songs also determine the results.
What I do is I listen to the whole album on spotify, and then if I like all the songs, then I blog those albums as my favorites of the year (I also do something similar for MVs). Anyway, I'll try to buy those albums eventually.
the only groups i buy every version of their albums for are my top 3 ult groups but even then, i sometimes feel fatigued. aside from ateez, i have no interest in going back and buying every version of their old albums either. collecting sm groups especially is a nightmare since they produce member versions of EVERYTHING so i just buy my bias and move on. i cannot imagine the horrors of collecting otx for a group like nct where there's always at least 2 photobook versions, member jewel cases AND member sminis. it gets to the point where it feels like you're living in an sm warehouse
I do miss Angelina and Audrey together in the same room but it's still fun and saves on gas and time!
One of the best pre releases of kpop are CHUNGHA's Querencia album, 4 pre releases and THEN the comeback
The amount of DOPAMINE i got when i found out there was a new episode of the podcast.
i wanted to say that I think it was weird that JYPe released basically three music videos for Itzy's recent album and i think it is affecting their views. i think it is TOO much itzy content from JYPe in such a small amount of time.
A lot of the points making is really just marketing from the company side. Its all to hype up for both teasers and pre releases, but its also necessary online content to turn on the algorithm by release date. The "hype" is basically getting the ball rolling for key words like the artist, the song title, the album title and everything related so that it pops up in searches or get heavily suggested and gets inserted in people's timelines. Its how you get random ads of something you're not interested in or a series of people end up talking about this random group and it trickles into your end of the internet.
Its basically how marketing strategies evolved over the years. Yes, 2nd and 3rd gen groups just drop something and its a big success... thats becuse kpop and entertainment wasnt so saturated. You cant do something like that in 4-5th gen and expect amazing results unless you pay for SEO services to shove your new release up the searches. Taking away the hype may just be that some fans are exhausted/overwhelmed from the constant supply of information. Like a dopamine fix finally loosing its buzz because you've had a "scheduled" dose for a month or however long the pre-release info has been running that by the time the album/mv releases you're already tired.
Omg listening to you talk about your trade with Carolyn reminded me of when you DMd me and we talked about collecting when you first started ❤
Would have been a perfect to add in Itzy having 20 different versions for their comeback 😭
something that annoys me that I don't see a lot of people talkinga abt is idols doing a million tiktoks with the same dance a blank white background or at the dance studio and with every kpop idol. Even groups I don't follow are usually on my fyp and it's annoying. like I know doing the tiktoks is part of promotion but I think there are definitely ways they could make them more entertaining and come off as a bit more authentic
The fansign thing really gets me, I wish that fansign and calls were less wasteful. Like, I feel that everyone should really just have one chance, fair and square for everyone and if someone wants more copies or does a group order, then that's fine. There is definitely someone out here that is willing to pay for the VIP meet&greet at concerts, so why not do a similar thing with the fansigns/calls more? I mean i get the business but dang...every industry out here producing too much waste
Wait a minute… Mr. was the b-side!?!? As a lover of both Wanna and Mr. I had no idea Wanna was the lead single. My 2nd gen experience was a lie😭.
I stopped watching any teaser/spoiler a while ago, because if they spoil too much like jyp then it ruins the excitement and surprise for me. So i dont listen to highlight medleys, mv teasers, etc. The last time i did was for LMLT by nmixx and it completely ruined the experience of the comeback for me. Now i dont care who it is, i dont listen to teasers...
Kpop fans are so weird. All western acts have many preleases months in advance before an album is released They are just considered singles off the album. It’s so weird how Kpop stans act like they can’t listen to more then one song off an album. It’s also stupid how they think every song that’s not a title track is just an unimportant b-side and should automatically be lower quality. You don’t see fans act like that with artists from other music industries. I don’t get how the different releases is confusing for people unless they are young kids and only listen to Kpop
16:12 Liz had like 5s of lines in the entire Song kitsch
i remember now!
Her voice didn't suit kitsch so made sense
I feel the whole "schedule" came into being because of how numbers (streaming, Billboard, Melon, KTown4U, etc.) became such a focus. That drives awards on music shows, end-of-year awards, #1 on western charts, #1 All Kill on Korean charts, etc. But it doesn't impact western radio or western awards and that is a very sore spot. BTS and even TXT manage to do well despite the push back (won't get into that, like I said, a sore spot). Essentially, KPOP is fan-based, yes?? Fans drive the popularity, sales, consumption, tickets, streaming, all of it. New Jeans managed to break the cycle by not doing a schedule but they still have a solid fan base. KPOP will always be a business; if I knew how it would evolve, I'd be rich, but I don't and I'm not.
It feels like the pre-release is a way to do ”double title tracks” but with the single title track benefits. Like Ateez Fever era were hindered in M2/Studio Choom etc promotions because they literally didn’t know which tt would be their first one until maybe 2 weeks before the comeback. The one exception during Fever was Fireworks because it was a single tt.
I personally don’t like it, all I see is more work for the idols (compared to a single mv promo), especially if they do 3+ mvs like Stray Kids have been doing for how many years now?
Protest trucks because Korean laws are very different. For example you need a permit to protest and these things work better for the korean public in a way it doesnt interfere with people's lives and is directed to the people that need to hear it. I think there's just a lot more on Korean Culture and how their side of the internet works, like media play and stuff, that international fans are just not aware of. its just like how if international stans protest... its usually done by trending hashtags or mass emailing.
21:54 hearing this hurt me badly ngl 😞
Sorry 😬💕
Shut Down was 100% not as impactful as Pink Venom
I prefer bsides having mvs after the release of the album without a lot of promotion so that the title stands out, but the wrong way would be how nmixx does it, their expergo album has 4 music videos in total and no one knows about them cause they don’t even post about them on their social media, many of them don’t even have 4 million views
IM NEVER SELLING MY KPOP ALBUMS!!!! THOSE ARE ACTUAL TREASURES!!!!!! (bp the album was my first kpop album)
Maybe tripleS has a point with NFTs. Basically you buy points with which you can vote for the future of the group. At least this doesn’t cause overconsumption
The argument that the B side and pre releases take away from the comeback makes no sense. The title track is not the comeback itself. The comeback is the album, and all the content associated with it. The title is supposed to bring in the most hype, but pre releases and b sides add to that. If they do better than the title, that takes nothing away from the idols. It actually just adds to the overall success of the comeback.
I love you both! Angelina, this just showed how sh*t your camera is…. Get on it boo 🤣
i really don't know what to do :(
Maybe Amazon FBA to do the work of selling the stuff for you might be an option.
I don't completely with the opinion read about the clothes but kpop fashion dies seem to follow almost every single microtrend there currently is and makes them more popular in that way it kind of does influence buying mire stuff maybe
Yayyy less gooo💖
does anyone know what the liz fiasco is?
her getting very little lines in kitsch!
26:39 really????
Kara’s “Mister” was a B-SIDE!
Minji newjeans bukan k-pop
Tolong di hapus
1st
the person talking about pre releases is so right cuz i listen to nmixx’s roller coaster RELIGIOUSLY yet i still havent heard their actual clmeback song party o whatever 🫣
What I’m getting from a lot posts is that people care more about the hype and streams over getting more content lol. Idc if I Am got so many views, I’m more happy I got Kitch as well.
I remember even until last year all groups only had one title track and sometimes a b-side to promote without an MV, just music show stages if anything. I think that started to change last year with New Jean's debut which had 3 title tracks and 4 MVs as well as Blackpink's two songs which both had MVs. Then New Jeans came back again with an absolutely game changing pre-release (Ditto) and ever since then it's like groups can't stop trying to do the same, they feel forced to do it.
Honestly this. I can't remember a pre-release before How You Like That and then New Jeans dropped and then it seemed to be everywhere
Newjeans are basic. Can u see their songs gains slow & less views in some like global platform like youtube💀💀. Because not all like newjeans songs. They sound kids songs/nursery songs. Only 12 years & under like their songs. Also, people who has childish taste level like their songs. It's not my cup of tea. It's so embarassing for me to play it outside. It's so childish sound😬😬😬. They also don't look fierce while they perform. The 4th gen girl groups exude fierce aura & performed fiercly are Le Sserafim, Gidle & Itzy. Aespa & Stayc is okay. NMIXX probably okay. Ive no same as Newjeans no!
I remember even until last year all groups only had one title track and sometimes a b-side to promote without an MV, just music show stages if anything. I think that started to change last year with New Jean's debut which had 3 title tracks and 4 MVs as well as Blackpink's three songs which all had MVs as well. Then New Jeans came back again with an absolutely game changing pre-release (Ditto) and ever since then it's like groups can't stop trying to do the same, they feel forced to do it.