Christian Nationalists are Preparing for War: a Conversation with Brad Onishi
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Professor Bradley Onishi is co-host of the Straight White American Jesus podcast and author of the new book, "Preparing for War: The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism - and What Comes Next."
BOOK: www.bradonishi...
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Funny story, in the early 90's James Dobson came to Gatlinburg TN for a christian youth retreat. When he checked out we noticed that the room was missing 4 pillows, three robes and all the towels. We charged his account 389.00 for the "missing items". A month later all of the missing items arrived by mail with a request for a refund.
My boss sent the items back and informed them that once items were removed from the building they were no longer our property as per the notice on every single room door.
Guess Dobson is still having issues reading the fine print!
As a preacher's granddaughter I grew up expecting god to return before 2000. The lies and fearmongering used by the christian right wing in this country has recently turned into "we are going to help make it happen." That is far more disturbing.
Isn't the correct term for those that want to "help the end times along" Zionists?
Not just "we are going to help make it happen" but "WE ARE GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!!" I've read reports that these people want to impose their religion and their sexual correctness on the planet so that their Jesus can return!
Yes, they are trying to make it happen, because they are embarrassed.
I was terrified at Reagan having access to that red button. I knew there were several layers of personnel, but also that Christian Nationalism hated Jews and loved Israel and *wanted* Armageddon, The End Of The World.
I never thought I would see the day where God was portrayed as being so weak that human intervention is needed 🙄 I'm so glad to have rid myself of that baggage.
When I moved from the UK to USA 10 years ago, I never expected the level of lack of critical thinking, overt racism and bigotry and religious fascists. Divorced and trying to meet someone who shares my life view as a humanist (I’m an ex Jew so lost almost all friends when I refused to partake in the pantomime !) has been impossible. As soon as I mention that I have no religion, I might as well say I eat children for breakfast 😂.. I have little hope for the future of this country and am happy my children don’t live here. I’m sure I’ll die alone here I’m the land of the free … Thanks to your content Seth, always to the point and interesting
I completely understand, I have lived in Texas all my life and as an atheist it is tough.
Dating life I mean.
Even the dating websites the first thing these women say in their bio profile is Jesus is the MOST IMPORTANT thing in my life…………..jeez louis
What region do you live in? What you describe sounds like the Bible Belt. You might try looking into more liberal areas. Also, check out some of the different groups. I have had friends in your situation contact LGBTQ communities who are in conservative areas. They have a WEALTH of information about how to navigate what you describe. Don't give up. Get creative.
I share in what you say: I’m American and was immersed in Christianity for over 30 years and came out of it and became atheist. And yes, you become a demon from hell because of religious people who demand that you conform to their lack of reality.
@@littlebitofhope1489 it might surprise you but I actually live in southern Nevada ,!! I used a few meetup groups which eventually faded with the pandemic 😷.. it’s actually hard to meet genuine people .. online dating is fraught with scammers and yes profiles mostly refer to god fearing !! At least I now have an adopted dog 🐕.. more genuine than the ladies I have met in recent years 😎.. I go to CSICON every yr too which is always interesting .. thanks for the comment though
The seeming inability for so many Americans to think critically is very disappointing. The only solution to this problem (in my opinion) is to teach our children in school and at home critical thinking skills. I am a product of US public schools. and I was in my 50s before I ever learned about cognitive biases and their influences on how we think. It was my journey away from religious beliefs that finally exposed me to the concepts of critical thinking. The real problem here, and why I don't see a curriculum for critical thinking gaining widespread support in our country is that the religious fanatics know it is a direct threat to them being able to raise their children to be obedient, non-questioning believers. Religious belief depends on believers not having critical thinking skills. I grew up in the southern US, and there truly is a culture of ignorance down there that to this day is an integral part of the fabric of southern society. I'm not saying all southerners are wantonly ignorant, but in the rural areas it is quite difficult to find people who aren't proud of their wanton ignorance, and can think critically. I live in the a red northwestern state now, and the same problem exists up here. It's a bad situation for sure.
Just glad I left my religious beliefs behind years ago. It's so liberating when it comes to how you think about life and how you want to live it.
It was nice until I became aware of Christian Nationalism. Scary thought.
its so liberating that now you can be self centered.
Gods way is perfect and liberating.
@@TrentsPolitical 😵💫🥴🤪
@@TrentsPolitical stay delusional
@@catsmeow1630 can’t make an argument I see. Just going to spam emojis lol great.
This is what happens when you spend decades defunding and warping public education: a nation who thinks dinosaurs walked with people, a man can live inside a great fish, an omnipotent being wouldn't know when figs are in season, and donkeys can talk
In all honesty, donkeys can talk...I hear jackasses talk all the time....Pat Robertson, Greg Locke, Jim Bakker, etc. Oh, you meant the actual animal...sorry, my bad. Lol. I'll see myself out.....
You left out that Unicorns, Giants, and men with magic hair are real too. You can't leave out the Unicorns.
@@littlebitofhope1489 Agreed. Definitely can't leave the unicorns out.
@@readingfrenzy3818 And the seven headed dragon which really shold be called a hydra. Know your draxonomy!
And 7 headed wild animals that are hybrids of 4 different land-based species and that live in the sea.
Don’t know if either of you covered it, but I became extremely alarmed when it leaked out in the 90s that white Christian nationalists were running rampant at our national military academies. It was a blip in the news. Had a nephew who graduated the Air Force Academy who confirmed the pressure put on those attending. My own son was sent to Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times during his six years in the military. Every single time they were to ship out, standing on the tarmac to board planes, prayer cards were handed out for them to sign! Praising Jesus and asking for divine intervention for them and the country. Roughly over half didn’t sign them and passed them back up whereupon they were given severe tongue lashings. By the third time, those cards came preprinted with their name and rank on them. That’s bullshit.
you are so right. I saw a lot of christian evan proseiytising in army
Horrifying. And we're helpless.
@@bryancharlebois 79% of African Americans are Christians. 80% of Latino Americans are Christians. The entire USA is only 4.2% of the global population. 33% of the entire global population are Christians. None of them will ever care what you do, say, like, want, don't like or don't want. That will NEVER MATTER is not worth saying. Now you know better.
The War on Terror was bullshit. The military is a bullshit national disgrace.
I went to a funeral for a prominent member of our volunteer fire department, and not only was the service heavily conservative Christian (the church it was held in claims to be “nondenominational,” but it has heavily Pentecostal leanings), at the end the minister ordered everyone to stand and repeat after him that we were accepting Jesus Christ as our lord and savior! As a Wiccan, this left me feeling seriously offended-I remained standing out of respect for the others, but I kept my mouth shut tighter than a clam! And they say we non-Christians are imposing our religion on _them?!_
How anyone can study religions and not be an atheist, is beyond me?
It’s easy! Like reading Greek Mythology etc……
I think a lot of people are still scared of the word Atheist.
Same problem with weed...
how anyone looks at atheism and its worldview and somehow aint christian is a fool .
Social pressure and 'norms' can be powerful.
@@TrentsPolitical
This includes "muslims" and "hindus"?
Throwing away the first democracy and a force for secular liberalism in exchange for religious obedience and conformity to a fantasy world is certainly the greatest act of collective stupidity in human history.
no the greatest act of collectivist stupidity is whatever the left is doing.
Welcome to the Christian Taliban.
Indian made the first democracy. Stop with the exceptionalist bs. You got a lot to unlearn there. Hit the library.
@@annemurphy8074 that’s what I like to call gaslighting
@@TrentsPolitical Then you don't understand gas lighting at all.
The way religion has really permeated politics is alarming.
Really! Really? The Dems are too afraid to say anything against the right-wing religious types and the Rep just swung open their doors and welcomed them in. WTF did you think was going to happen... The religious right was going to grab power and stay silent.
@@gerardgauthier4876 the two party system is just broken.
@@jamesleighdavis138 It's not the two party system that is broken. It is the fact that billionaires own the politicians. It really doesn't matter how many parties there are. If they are owned, there could be 100 and it would not matter. The only thing that will fix this is regulation of corporations (back to were they were before Reagan), abolition of Citizen's United, and a ban on lobbyists.
@@littlebitofhope1489 true…. lobbyists and corporations have way too much power and influence…and the church falls under that umbrella as well… the two party system is predicated on the illusion of choice.
Personally I don’t feel represented at all in government. By anyone. Regardless of party affiliation.
But then you look at the candidates… raised in America, with American values, American education…. Etc… And this … this is the best our system can produce?
I haven’t voted in decades…
VERY MUCH SO!! It's DANGEROUS and it's what helped to bring about Trump and January 6th insurrection!!
“For the children”, “family values”, “purity”, “take our country back”, “make America great again”...
Positive dog whistles! Wow! How did I miss that.
The whole problem stems from the fact that both parties(Dem and Rep) don't have the courage/spine to face this problem...
All it would take is representatives from both parties to stand up and openly discuss the current problems and start arresting and prosecuting these nationalists in very public arenas.
You keep letting them off and they'll keep on trucking.
Sorry the right is almost fully responsible for the situation we’re in with these Christian nationalists. In the early 60’s when the republicans lost an election, they decided to start courting the Christian fundamentalists. Checkout Theocracy Watch here on TH-cam. It lays out just how they’ve been able to put people in from the local level up… quietly.
This is not a problem to Republicans.
@@itsROMPERS... - True. Many Republicans are Christian nationalists, and most of the rest try to exploit Christian nationalists for votes and money.
@@loki2240 Exactly. This is not just partisan, they feed on their own people.
I wish people would wake up. It's so sad.
Republicans rely on this for their votes
I have noticed that all my conservative friends or coworkers are always afraid. There is always a new boogie man, a clear and present danger (except for the pandemic they had no problem downplaying that).
So, what do your coworkers say about climate change?
@@rasmuszaurins7233 that is fake news 🤦
@@hansolo3003 Have you ever tried to understand why they do this or made assumptions about it?
@@rasmuszaurins7233 I would imagine it's because they tune in to right wing propaganda mills like Faux News. They get fed a regular diet of lies and exaggerations there.
@@Leszek.Rzepecki That means they are too stupid to think for themselfs, they are betrayed?
I was not taught much Christianity nor had much church experience as a young child. I can remember hearing the song "Onward Christian Soldiers" for the first time as a college freshman, after I'd studied world history in junior high school and high school. I took it as a reflection of the Crusades, when Christians went to kill and conquer the "infidels" (Muslims) who had control of Palestine. I saw this as one of the darker episodes of Christianity in history, and it went over my head as to just why many of them were celebrating it - and some were even saying, "Yeah, yeah. I'd go to war to protect my faith!", as they talked about Christian love and peace.
The first time I really noticed White Christian Nationalism as a significant political/social entity was after Obama was elected in 2008. Obviously it’s always been there, but that event seemed to really supercharge the whole “culture war” and WCN cause/movement, to where now I think it is almost a religion in itself, grounded on fear and grievance instead of anything theological. What I want to hear is what can we as a nation do about it? Roughly half the country believe it or are committed to a political party that co-opts WCN. The other side of the aisle is scared to raise the subject for the real concern of coming off as anti-religious (and in the rhetoric of the WCN, unpatriotic). The books and talks are great, but are generally only being read by those who are already aware of the issue. I’m trying to envision what we can do to “off ramp” our country from this “civil war” the WCN crowd seems to be so enamored with.
This!
Christian here, promise I’m not here to jerk your chain, you’er 100% right about the other side of the aisle. I didn’t realize until the last year or so fundamentalist Christians, evangelical Christians, right wing Christian nationalists… (whatever the hell they want to call themselves this week) had been working since the 60s from the lowest local level up to put like minded people in offices of authority. I watched a piece on TH-cam, “Theocracy Watch”, it lays it all out. If you’re interested at all about our founding fathers, their faith, “The Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers”. I checked it out because I have the need for knowledge, find the problem, use the knowledge to dispel their lies. I believe religion should be no where near government, millions of Christians just like me believe the same. And the vast majority couldn’t care less if they want to call us anti-religious, “they” already call us demonic and satanists… no, it’s not just their pet names for y’all… it’s anyone who disagrees with their agenda. I say all this to tell you, even with the differences in ideology, there are millions of us who stand with y’all who believe it’s our business with respect to religion or no religion. And there’s millions of “Christians” who believe as you and I about religion and government.
@@chaserofthelight1737 I’m glad for every ally in this effort. The ideology, in various shades of extremity, is very prevalent in the rural area I live in. It is openly proclaimed everywhere you go. The phrase is a bit over used by now, but there is almost no better way to describe the WCN movement than “American Taliban.” Maybe some hyperbole, but not much if you listen to some of the hate preachers rhetoric (Gregg Locke types). Any mixing of religion and government compromises the integrity the other, but over the centuries, they have slowly become enmeshed in so many ways. We should make a hard break, remove “God” mottos in money, pledge, etc…, stop the invocations in govt meetings, etc….; and then there is the third rail: tax exemption!
@@devinbraun1852 Alabama… Nough said… ✨🌹✨❤️🔥✨🌹✨
@@devinbraun1852 have you heard of the Satanic Temple? Ye know, “separation of church and state” actually isn’t in the 1st Amendment. One other thing, they didn’t do away with slavery and involuntary servitude. There’s something to the effect “except were found guilty of a crime”, they just put a bow on it and locked it up. I know you know, who accounts for the majority of the prison population.
When I was attending university I told a gay friend that I was concerned that despite having no problem with gay people, I didn't know how I would feel if my son turned out to be gay. When he met my son he told me that I didn't need to worry about because my son was not gay. I just figured out that my dilemma was that I didn't want another reason for the world to be cruel to my baby. Thanks for helping me figure that out
That and you may want bilogical grandkids one day to carry on your legacy.
Wow! Love this interview especially what happened in the 60s, what law and order is, and words that are dogs whistle. I had learned a lot in this interview. This got me in wanting to listen to the podcast!
What an excellent guest! I'd never even heard of his work, thank you Seth for bringing him to our attention. The insights of a "reformed zealot" are known to be of great value in understanding and addressing their unreformed counterparts, but rarely do I see this self-inspection approached with such scholarly rigor. That adds a dimension of practicality not present in the more common and well-meaning but less useful "kumbaya let's all be friends" mentality. This is real insight we can use "on the battlefield" (*metaphorically*). Well done.
The key is to divide them - I have found that the best way to deal with people with opposing positions, is to write down the two opposite ends of the views; Then REFUSE to DEBATE them. Next make a list of things that you each agree on related to the subject. Then agree to only discuss compromise that can achieve common goals. Whenever a subject drifts back to angry debate, start back at the first step. People can only convince themselves. We can't convince them all, but you can convince enough to play nice.
Never refuse to debate. No subject is off the table. Words hold no power because knowledge is the ultimate power. SMH!
@@Rusty-Shackleford69 In the right format, debate works for an audience. With an individual, it almost always drives your opponent into desperate excuse mode and strengthens their resolve that you are the enemy. If you can show how it works otherwise, I'm all ears.
I agree, no debate is better. I have a good friend who is a theist, like i used to be. Now I am atheist and she is still a theist. However we can have good discussions that have nothing to do with religous theme. You are right, you cant just barge in and state that you are the smartest person around. We still are friends because we dont argue about it. I am not going to change her beliefs and vice versa. But is not worth ruining a 50 year friendship over.
Atheists are far more divided. You have no binding belief system. In fact THAT IS YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM - that there are no set morals or laws It's all relative and that's why you can't win any political senate seats. Your lack of belief really does make you less powerful.
King - No matter how many people believe something, it does not make it true.
Thank you for mentioning James Dobson. I remember listening to his radio show after Rush Limbaugh back in the early 90s and think back to the dog whistles he was training us for. I would say he is actually more responsible for what's going on today than guys like Falwell and Robertson. He is the Joseph Goebbels of White Christian Nationalism IMO.
I wish more people would call him and his grifting "parachurch" organization(s) and friends out. People think he's just a nice old man and many of my old friends don't understand how he was conditioning for a culture war.
And he is in hell right now
@@Irishlen64 no he’s not. I wish.
This is the reasons why we had to tear of the confederate statues down here in New Orleans: they stood for the idea that white Christian nationalist would always be in power.
One of the best podcasts ever. The long history of dog whistles, their harm and difficulty to combat is effectively explained and further illustrates the danger. More people need to listen and hear what is really being said.
I became a born again Christian in the mid 70s. Not sure if it was always there, but I became more and more aware that the "church" as we called the body of evangelicals and charismatic Christians was becoming more political and for the lack of a better word more Southern.
Along with that was the neo anti-abortion movement, prosperity gospel, and Christian nationalism.
It started innocently enough with the idea that patronizing Christian business and voting for Christian politicians was a good thing because (born again) Christians were good people.
It didn't take long for that to change into Conservative business and conservative politicians.
My first break with Christianity was over the 1980 election where the church abandoned the Christian candidate in favor of a crypto-racist.
After Reagan the church militant took off.
Amazing conversation! Thank you Seth and Brad!
The talking of dogwhistling reminds me of how my right wing older brother communicates with me for the most part, along with him smugly smiling through it or being loud and domineering throughout life since back when at age 7 he one day walked in my room out of the blue, and suddenly began punching me in the face repeatedly, while whispering shut up to me in between each creepy sad punch.
I got so used to the isolation, i became my own best friend moreso live 4 hours away now in a rural farming zone. He really really wanted our parents house, made it demeaning to there.
His best friend is a sociopath who showed up at my stepfathers funeral and pulled a creepy trip on me while i was trying to grieve missing the parents who we lost within 6 months of eachother. Mom was very artistic, liked her comical logical george carlin records.
Anyhow, the right wing thing is pathetic. How do we get them to realize how pathetic they are?
Write songs and risk being arsoned like a salem witch trial by delusional type people who say their victims went to a lake of fire for not believing they have a real invisible friend?
Lunacy.
Please, get em out of politics, and we can begin the repair their damages.
Wow. Your story brought me to tears. I'm so very sorry that happened to you, and I completely understand because the almost same EXACT thing happened to me, only it was my entire family and bullies at school. I truly admire your strength and courage for sharing your story with us!! BE STRONG and CARRY ON!! You are definitely NOT ALONE!! 😎👍💯
Just a note. The song actually goes " Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war." The implication being that poeple going out to evangelize are as organized and as fervent and sacrificing as soldiers in battle.
The likelihood of a civil war, a shooting one anyway, is extraordinarily remote. There are many reasons, but one of the main ones is most Christian Nationalists are white, doing at least fairly well, and have never had to face any consequences for their beliefs. But if they had to face some consequences, such as taking up arms (and therefore risking their lives), most of them would realize they don't have it so bad after all.
Instead what we need to worry about is increased violence from individuals and small groups.
Like Gavrilo Princep, for instance? No sensible European politician in June 1914 was looking forward to a general conflagration. It's just that the drift of events, and the inertia of national goals led them up to the edge. Gavrilo just gave the final little nudge.
@@jefftheriault5522 The world of 1914 was vastly different than the one of today. The overall quality of life of the average citizen was nowhere near what white Christian Nationalists have. Especially when you consider the U.S. was, and in many ways still is, designed to benefit them over all others.
People can, and often do, say they believe in something when they know there won't be consequences. But to get them to take that final step and be willing to put their lives on the line for a belief, usually takes more than being butt-hurt over societal changes.
@@solly119119: Comparing 1914 and 2023 strains credulity. You seem unclear on the meaning of Christian Nationalism. It's not a club for the upper class. Think of the crowd on 1/6/2021 storming the Capital. There's the average group of Christian Nationalists for you, they're as middle and working class as it gets. We are a Capitalist society with many socialist tendencies.
@@Johnboy33545 Johnboy, I wasn't the one making the 1914 to 2023 comparison, nor did I say it was a "club for the upper class".
I also don't agree the 1/6 traitors reflect Christian Nationalism, at least not fully. A very large segment of them is the elderly, and I didn't see many 70-somethings breaking through the doors or climbing ropes to smash windows.
Can't fix stupid 😂
I think "One Nation Under God; how corporate America invented Christian America" Kevin M. Kruse, does a pretty good job speaking on the long game.
Seth, thank you so much for bringing Brad on your show!! We're trying to negotiate and they're fighting for their very survival. That's a recipe for losing the fight.
As a gay who foster/adopted with my boyfriend , because gay marriage wasn’t legal yet, I do thank the Christians for saving me from having to deal with a divorce lawyer.
wow...! 💥 most excellent, seth...! thank you x3 for having bradley onishi on your show; a great discussion and valuable insights to the subject of white nationalist... 👍🏻😎
15:00
This man is so, so right. We are all whistling past the graveyard if we think that the MAGA madness is over. Until serious consequences are laid upon Trump, Giuliani, Eastman, Sidney Powell, and the rest of the Capitol criminals responsible for 1/6, we are not safe.
Family values are also a way of keeping women down. "Family values" = husband's values.
My sister is one of those that claims,”All I need is my Bible for my answers and how to live my life for the lord”. I have held back pointing out that she’s the one “ wearing the pants” in her family and that’s not biblical.😂
I'm a nihilist. And I follow the teachings of Lao Tzu. What happens, happens.
"There is no form of measure that can calculate the insignificance of our existence."
That's where I'm at. And I'm happy with that.
It's undiluted truth. The closest to absolute truth you'll find.
Same here
Odd that they think so highly of Goldwater, considering his warning about religion and politics.
I suspect few have been directed to that warning.
Thank you! I appreciate the relationship to Goldwater, the history on the right and the image of the American body. I do think that Obama really sent the xtian right into a massive anxiety attack. The whole "own the libs" rhetoric is so entrenched in this identity.
If someone says ‘family values’. Ask them to define a family they are valuing.
"Pretty lonely" describes my experience perfectly.
I left the church that I was an Elder, teacher, and leader in for over 30 years and NO person from that congregation (over 200 members) came to me in an effort to “restore” me to the faith. It ha been over a year, and I am now Atheist.
I'm the son of a clergyman, non Evangelical. We did not sing "marching off to war" we sang "marching as to war" a significant difference. But as a teenager I found mention of war at all to be troubling.
Agree it was written 'as to war', and written as a metaphor for spiritual battles as in trying to overcome sin. It was written by a curate in West Yorkshire in late 1800s as a marching song for a children's walk (possibly Whitsun walks ? as they were very much part of the culture.)
But yes the language is problematic and although still in some hymnbooks , in my experience not used (and dropped from UK Methodist most recent hymnbook.
aha wiki says 'The lyric was written as a processional hymn for children walking from Horbury Bridge, where Baring-Gould was curate, to Horbury St Peter's Church near Wakefield, Yorkshire, at Whitsuntide in 1865. It was originally entitled, "Hymn for Procession with Cross and Banners."[4] According to the Centre for Church Music, Baring-Gould reportedly wrote "Onward, Christian Soldiers" in about 15 minutes, later apologising, "It was written in great haste, and I am afraid that some of the lines are faulty."[5] He later allowed hymn-book compilers to alter the lyrics. For example, The Fellowship Hymn Book, with his permission, changed the phrase "one in hope and doctrine" to "one in hope and purpose." For the 1909 edition of Hymns Ancient and Modern, he changed the fifth line of the same verse from "We are not divided" to "Though divisions harass." However, Baring-Gould's original words are used in most modern hymnals.
I kind of like the idea of family values even if the family isn’t the traditional mom-pop-kids type. I like wholesome stuff (things that give you the feeling all is in its right place, things that are good for you and others).
One of many reasons I like being an atheist is that it takes up so little of my valuable time, Sunday mornings belong to me now.
What can I say but thanks for the great and honest conversation. As a recovering evangelical Christian who comes from a family of right wingers, I completely agree with pretty much everything that was said in this discussion. Having escaped the clutches of the cult, I feel so much free-er and liberated. Reasoned, open minded free thought has got to be our future as human beings or we are destined for failure and our demise
When I sent my Christian friend a video that Seth had made and the TheThinkingAthiest , he told me never to listen to Seth again, that Seth is evil. Well Seth you are no more evil that the rest of the human race, you are actually a very good person and I love good people and do my best to surround myself with them
My sister texted me “He’s of the devil!” 🙄
My journey out of evangelical fundamentalism was (and is) very similar. I spent close to 40 years as a Christian Pastor and leader.
As an atheist living in central Pennsylvania, I am literally surrounded Christian nationalists. ( It doesn't help that I am also a socialist! GASP!) Many of them would think that I am obviously a spawn of Satan. You know, pure evil. So, I don't tell people about my lack of faith or political beliefs unless they directly ask me. Even then I fudge it. I tell them I am "not spiritual" and "progressive" politically. Even those answers get weird looks. It is kind of like they think being a conservative Christian is the default position.
I don't like hiding who I really am but I don't want to lose friends and be a pariah. But it is what it is.
And maybe don't like having daily flat tires and graffiti and anonymous threats?
I grew up in Lebanon County in central PA (aka Pennsyltucky) and the overwhelming Christian Nationalism is one of the reasons I don't visit home often. It's depressing to see so many people proud of their hate and anti-intellectualism.
This is why everyone that the rightwing doesn't like should consider gun ownership. When the power grid goes down because some inbred bible-thumping mutants shot up nearby substations, the cops are probably not going to help us. They've been taking selfies with far right groups for years now.
Hitch would be proud of you Seth!
Great interview Seth...one of your best!
Excellent closing statement by Bradley. Respect and kindness 🙏🏼
One of the best episodes by far. Thank you!
Seth, you don't sound like a preacher...you sound like what you are: a radio personality...and that's commendable...you're an articulate media personality...and I love it...don't change - at least in not that aspect of your life.
My ex could not talk about a group of people without assigning some kind of negative attributes to them. It didn't matter what their skin color was. He could identify examples of ones he considered good or bad. It is cringy, but it's interesting how quickly his justifications for them fell apart when he was called out on them.
I see why you are alone.
This makes me wonder if tribalism is on a spectrum. It makes sense that it is. If so, your ex sounds like he was two standard deviations beyond the mean, and in the wrong direction.
@@Rusty-Shackleford69 It's so peaceful 👍
@@SilentEcho9194 Yes. Hallelujah.
I find it sad that so many "christians" think the rest of us do what they do (or wish they could do)
somehow they think its impossible to live a generous, honest, patient, thankful, curious, sober(-ish), compassionate, empathetic life without (name your deity) , like I've been doing my whole life.
Of course I am not perfect, but I thank Hamlet and the Tooth Fairy daily, for not being born into an ultra-christian home that condones hate and violence against people that one doesn't know, and calls it "love"
One of your better programs, sad but true, on every street corner.
Barry Goldwater also emphatically warned against evangelicals and said they would be the ruin of the Republican party. He also spoke against religious extremism in general. You can't leave that part out if quoting Goldwater on religion.
I'm beyond furious at the whole raised for a "culture war" thing, but sure mom go off about lgbtq 'groomers' teaching kids to accept and love themselves for who they are.
The great thinker, J. Krishnamurti spoke extensively about how what we feel God is, is only a projection of ourselves. I read his books often and there is so much encouragement there.
I tried asking these questions you recommended asking often. But the usual response i get is either an abrupt end to the conversation or a whole slew of nonsensical babble and insults seemingly to cover up that they have no anwser. The few times i actually get a coherent response is usually just mindlessly repeating far right or far left talking points and when i inquire even a little deeper or point out a glaring contradiction it's usually silence, attempts to change the subject or a quick descend into nonsensical babble, insults and walling.
Not saying that asking these questions is useless and maybe i'm just inept at easing into them (that's always a distinct possibility^^), but i'm saying that a depressingly high percentage of people just doesn't like to think and instead prefers being told what to think.
Just out of curiosity, what is the "far left" equivalent of this far right insanity, and how did you attempt to question it?
@@rainkidwell2467 The far left insanity would for example be the black segregationists. Those usually try to make every single woe that blacks had to suffer in the past or present the fault of the evil white coloniser and argue that africa was essentially a paradise on earth before the white coloniser came and everything went to hell in a handbasket. They tend to heavily rely on the myth of the noble savage.
And what exactly do you mean with "how did you attempt to question it"? Are you asking me how i got in contact with these guys? Or are you asking what questions i asked them? Please explain what exactly you mean.
Thanks for calling out Barry Goldwater on this. People think Nixon started the Southern Strategy but it was Goldwater before him, who ran on reversing the civil rights acts.
I grew up evangelical, in the 60s-70s, when it was still more off the radar, and considered a fairly benign subculture. For me, it was my place to socialize, and had a great experience. NOW, and for several decades, I consider myself a 'generic' Christian. If compassion isn't involved, I'm not interested. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" means something that has been completely decimated in the rabid evangelical community. I also lost friends for both political and religious (hate that word) reasons. I get my recharge of spirituality by looking at nature, and the creatures, rhythms of the seasons, etc. I believe in God- but not on forcing anyone (as if that's possible) to believe what I do. I simply appreciate what I believe He created (however that happened - if "let there be light" included a 'big bang', so be it), and that if I am to represent Him, I need to be compassionate. I thank my early nursing jobs in Texas, during the early years of AIDS when everyone died, and other people I'd never encountered (LGBTQ, including a "T" who was in transition in 1987 when nobody was talking about it), etc for opening my eyes to the incredible people out there, who have generally been much kinder than how many people I grew up knowing turned out. One former youth leader that I'd kept in contact with through many decades told me that anyone who voted for anyone but Trump was the dirt on the bottom of her shoes that she wanted to scrape off. I was devastated by her attitude, and as a kid, never would have picked up on it. I replied with "I guess you want to get me off of your shoes"... she backtracked, but it was too late. I never initiated contact with her again. I wished her well (and well away from me). She called me one time about a year before she died, and I was cordial, but had no interest in talking with her.
Seth, great interview! You don't sound like a preacher to me, you sound like a radio show,lol. 👍💖💙🥰✌
I was raised as catholic....I started questioning things when my mind awoke at about 12 years of age....my mind said I'm not buying into this....I'm a non believer...I'm not an atheist....nor am I an agnostic...I'm not afraid of not believing
That's called the mystery of faith. That's where I'm at.
Coddling them is why we're in this mess in the first place.
Professor Onishi thank you, I like your reasoning, your clarity of thought and depth of knowledge.
when i left, i just faded out. lost a lot of contacts at the time, but my new friends are way better and there is no middle man to my relationships now
Thank you so much for referencing Ludwig Feuerbach. Feuerbach’s “The essence of Christianity” is a must read for watchers of this channel!
I'm an atheist, and I'm hearing the drums of WAR! It's hellmarch time, kiddos! WAR!
Fascism will come to America wrapped in a flag carrying a cross.
It's already arrived. In fact, it's been there for a while.
in the form of Conservatism. I finished that saying.
There's so many things I want to say, I can't say them all. I just met a neighbor a few days ago while walking my dog. She wanted to try to pet the dog, but my dog wouldn't even get close to her. I never saw my dog act that way before. She's wary of strangers, but if she makes an exception, it's for older women, but the dog with me even get close enough to sniff her.
I didn't think so at the time, but I suppose my dog sensed something "off" about this woman. Perhaps even something evil. I don't believe in demons or spirits, so I'm not sure how to explain it.
The woman seemed perfectly nice to me, and sweet natured, but in the course of conversation--and I don't remember even how it came up--she asked me if I'm a Christian. I said "No".
It eventually came out that she still saw Trump is having been sent by God to lead a culture war to save our country from the forces of evil. She mentioned Biden by name... but in the context of being an evil person.
This is such an abbreviated accounting of our conversation, I'm not even sure it's worth reporting. There are, after all, millions of people like her. Tens of millions.
As I'm very committed to cultural outreach and dialogue, even with people with whom I disagree, I had indicated that I would like to continue our conversation, and she seemed quite willing to do that. I'm really very good at being respectful and tolerant in such situations. But as I gave it more thought , and talked to my wife about it afterwards, we decided it was too risky.
This woman conveyed in the course of conversation that her husband felt much more strongly about these issues than she did, and would NEVER consent to speak to me. I just don't want to get into the middle of that. It sounds dangerous.
This is just an ordinary seeming couple, living quiet lives in suburban Dallas, but I suspect their house is loaded up with guns in preparation for the great Armageddon, after which she promised me that God's glory would rain down on America like never before.
I told her I thought that was a very positive and hopeful image, but in retrospect, this was just my accommodationist self speaking, and it was näive to the point of stupidity. She and her husband have actually embraced the gospel of hatred, intolerance, and violence, and I am of the enemy camp. I don't think I could expect any mercy from them, when the violence erupts.
I'm despondent, as I want to do my part to help make the world a better place. I just don't know what to do.
I believe that if we are going to save ourselves, we have to get organized. But I don't know how to attract suff. count of comrades to found an organization for survival.
Maybe i watch too much ID shows, but staying away should be safer than getting too close. It reminds me of an abanded house,it can look a bit interestingfrom the outside, but walking in and you could fall thru the floor.It's safer to just look at it and admire, than experiencing how curiosity killed the cat....just a thought.
War does not only affect one side, if they declare war, they will likely lose again, they did during the civil war and WWII.
I worked with the USMC in the 70's and was astounded by the prevalence of Bibles at the squad level....the Marine Corp Manual I can dig but, a 1lb. Book ?
As an aside, I was given a Buddha Stick wrapped in a page of Genesis, without asking for it....just blew me away.
*I was in the marines. I can't remember seeing a bible out of the chapel.*
By that time I saw churches as nothing but a scam. *Taking money from people and telling lies about the bible, Jesus, and god.*
i'm buying his book because Christian nationalism is what scares me the most as an atheist and humanist and i feel like this is what will cause any future conflicts. i always listen to what people say and if they give red flags of extremisms before feeling comfortable enough to be open and relax and i look white so they relax with me and open up and i try starting a reasonable convo but some of what i hear makes me ill
You dont have to be atheist to fear christian nationalism. Im a polytheistic buddhist, and christians are unhinged
Don’t become delusional yourself!
It isn’t that conservative people tend to being frightened, it is that frightened people tend towards conservatism.
Great video/podcast. Thank you!
This is a great enterview .
Back in the 70s my dad and his friend talked like this on sunday mornings over coffee .
My mother a christain raised in a pentecostal home hated it .
Me as a young teen loved it .
I still think about those visits today .
This was in arural southern area .
It foarmed my free thinking .
My dad and our naibor talked politics and drank coffee on Sunday mornings .
I drank coffee that day and loved to listen . Madeira me a free thinker too .
What was that Hitchens quote? That today when thinking about religious extremists we see islamists, but let us not miss, thirties and alliance of catholic church and fascist. And let us not forget that the concept of "christiandom", so called "christian world", something like muslim "world califate" today, has been swiftly forgottten, as soon as christian emperors almost wiped out Europe out of people, in unprecedented bloodbath that was World War I?
I have been very lucky, never being "constructed" in the first place. Always been a happy heathen.
Dig this channel the most 👍 I gave up on those weak pathetic indigenous gods long ago. Looking for those 👽s whom seeded this huge terrarium to come back and prevent its destruction...
My elder brothers theory is that the earth is an abandoned galactic insane asylum.
In short: If you are not White, Christian, Str8, and Male, then your membership in the Fraternity is always probationary, where if you are a member of the above, your membership is assumed. If you are not White, Christian, Str8, and Male, then the best you will ever achieve is the status of the Adjunct. You will never be granted Tenure.
This was compelling viewing - well done both!
I resigned myself years ago that to the fact that I will never know the answers to all of our philosophical questions and I am completely ok with that. It was very freeing. I highly recommend it.
Onishi: (pointing to what happened Jan 6) "How can we think that we are in normal times?" Exactly!
That was a great interview/conversation/Podcast. #MustSee 👍
Excellent talk, Seth and Brad!
Thanks for sharing this.
I have some new insights into how I could interact with my far right friends and associates.
Seth you do sound 'like a preacher' it is the inflection and tone. I think it is effective and like it. People who take issue with how you speak are silly and should be ignored.
I agree! Seth, keep doing what you do! You're hitting it out of the park!! :-)
of course he sounds like a preacher because atheism is a religion. A self centered religion where the only person that matters is you.
Turn to jesus humble yourself.
@@TrentsPolitical You've been polluting this channel with your comments.
You don't sound humble to me.
Jesus was pretty terrible. I'm not 'turning' to a being that I don't respect.
Being skeptical ain't a religion, professor
@@GuitarDog_atx polluting you’re the one polluting by spreading lies and hate (yes you spread hate by promoting sin)
@@GuitarDog_atx it is
Somebody died from that attack on the electric grid bc power was out for around 5 days and it was an abnormally cold time for NC. This was 2 counties away from me and it's just icky.
Hillary Clinton dog whistle: "...bring them to heal..."
This seems quite disgusting but then Hillery is one of the very best leaders of the u s.
Excellent show, excellent guest, thank you Seth and Brad.
It was and is disgusting. I don't think that she's ever apologized for that (it's heel, by the way - a reference to controlling dogs). And during her 2016 presidential campaign, she got civil rights hero, John Lewis, to endorse her over Bernie, and Lewis not only suggested that Bernie wasn't part of the Civil Rights movement (when in fact he was) - he suggested that Hillary and Bill were (when neither was, Hillary was actually a Goldwater Girl, and Goldwater opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964). Oh, but she said that she carries hot sauce in her purse - so black people should've voted for her... SMH
I'm a Christian theologian, evangelist, and apologist. One of my philosophies is to always look for the best argument against my position/s so that I either know I'm right, wrong, or need to adjust my beliefs. I'm against Christian Nationalism as well because it's not taught or demonstrated in the New Testament and making laws can change behavior but not hearts. I'm saddened by false and aberrant Christians yet they should not be the standard. There is a reason Jesus is respected and even revered by other major world religious leaders. Islam(Imams/Caliphates) believe he is one of the greatest prophets and sinless. Hindu religious leaders think of Jesus as an Avatar and so forth. Mahatma Gandhi is quoted as saying(paraphrasing), "I love your Jesus, but not crazy about Christians."
The Bible itself demonstrated man's misuse of religion all through the Old Testament right up to Jesus' battles with the Sanhedrin. Didn't Jesus say His worst condemnation would come against religious leaders for their misuse of their religion? See Matthew 23:14 and Luke 20:47.
Agreed. It almost seems like people adhering to the old testament want to have their own personal end times, self fulfilled.
Genetically Modified Skeptic recently made a video about Satan, which makes the point that those calling themselves Christians today seem to be identified with exactly the opposite ideals that Jesus stood for. You might want to check that out as well.
"How do you know your god is made up? When they hate all the same people you do."
Ex catholic now a realist who wants choice im wondering what is the christian flag? I dont know? Love being atheist i am here to save flailing Christians. Love the show!❤️
If you haven’t heard of him look up Christopher Rufo. He has started the latest moral panics and he’s proud of it. He boasts out loud that he started the CRT panic etc.
I'm old enough to remember seeing some of that split. They mentioned Eisenhower - in 1964 a lot of Goldwater Republicans were referring to him as a "pinko", so yes, some seeds were planted early.
The day he left office the Right became the Reich wing Fascists. They were all behind JFK RFK and MLK's assassinations. Tricky Dicky Nixon had to get the Kennedy's out of the way to get in the WH.
Excellent podcast, Seth!
I'm 71 years old. So, I remember AuH2O wanting to run for President. I was glad Lyndon Johnson won.
I'm older than you, 74, but Goldwater wouldn't be allowed in the current gqp. He predicted the disaster of melding repub politics, already sliding far to the Right, and religious zealots going along for the ride. He was a staunch Secularist that supported separation of church and state. I,too, am glad LBJ won. '64 was a good year.
this is a most informative presentation that I've had the pleasure to watch!
Wonderful and thoughtful discussion!
He mentions that he's married to a Polish wife which reminds me of all the Christian Nationalism going on in Polish politics and culture right now.
Fantastic interview!!
There are church services in jails & prisons, so they won't miss a second of magic book recitations. No problem. 💙🙃💙
Man created god, each man is his own god, that's why god hates what you hate
"He will speak great and arrogant words, and seek to change the laws of man and God. "
Daniel 7:25
One thing that evangelicals hate is the words in the Bible.
I don't understand people's confusion. I know nothing about god(s) and that makes me agnostic. At this point, the question of the existence of gods becomes moot. Also, I don't believe the stories, legends, or myths that religious people tell. And I make it plain that it is them I don't believe and I take it personally that they are lying to me.
Exactly.
I feel ya this whole thing is a scam ...it's a joke a bad one like as a human I'm like so done just bare minimum from now on ...I don't care no more seriously if your drowning and I can save ya ...not happening.
Love the show!! Keep up the good work! It’s so important to educate people on the dangers we are facing in this country when it comes to Christian nationalism!
Idk maybe it's just me but I dont see knocking out power as an extreme act of violence (that's more like blowing something up or releasing a bio terrorism device)...its not directly injurious so I feel this is dramatic wording
Knocking out a part of the grid can bring down medical equipment at home that someone was relying on to stay alive, a CPAP device for instance. Imagine suffocating slowly. Find the idea attractive? Oh, one other thing, the transformers, and a lot of the other technology found in the higher end substations are neither cheap to design or easy to make. The shop floor workers who used to make them over here in the U.S. were generally union workers who were experienced and skilled, and commanded a good wage and benefits. All that stuff, the great majority, is now done overseas, either in Europe or China. Knock out enough of that equipment, and you and me might starve or freeze before enough replacement equipment can arrive. And of course, we don't t make it here because well paid union workers are a bad example to the rest of us.
I agree with you. Calling it "violence" is a harmful overstatement.
It's pretty violent if you happen to be stuck in a lift (elevator to you yanks!), or on life support somewhere, or the traffic lights at a busy intersection suddenly stop working.
@@Leszek.Rzepecki If you're on life support, there's backup power. All hospitals have it. If you're stuck in a "lift" or the traffic lights stop working, it's definitely not violent. Unless you bang your own head against the wall and make it violent. But in that case, you would be the one committing violence.
@@jaehwan123 Sweetie, if you are dumb enough to think that blowing up or otherwise sabotaging a power plant isn't an act of violence, there's no hope for you. You've passed all reason and entered Lalaland. There's such a thing as violence against property as well as violence against people - sabotaging a power station amounts to both, and is an act of war. The saboteurs deserve to be treated as war criminals or terrorists.