What's the "red pill?" Ex-cult member Coleman Watts explains the term and tells his deconstruction story. Think This Though channel: / @thinkthisthroughchannel
My mom raised us all Christian but developed concerns about the state of Christendom after churches failed to adequately address two abusive husbands in a row. She went to seminary in her 60s with a goal of making things better from the inside, and a few years later she is now an atheist. It's fascinating how people can and do evolve at all ages.
I find it fascinating and frightening to see people say that they are not believers, without realizing for themselves that they are members of a scientific democratic cult. Now pledge allegiance to the flag and obey the democratic and scientific priesthood, like the good citizen you have been trained to be. You haven't forgotten what the well behaved citizens repeated endlessly for the last few years, follow the science!! But at least they don't believe in god anymore.
I love that for your mother, and I hope the people those husbands abused ultimately got justice and healing. It really is a fine line between a cult and a religion. I think it's longevity.
hold up. calling women out on their sht is not hating on them. and it's a reality that women from other countries are 10 times better than western women because they have not been indoctrinated by feminism.
I cringed pretty hard when Stefan Molyneux's name came up. I used to be a frequent listener of his podcast 10-12 years ago and even parroted some of his ideas. He has always marketed himself as a philosopher, but strangely I never learned any philosophy from his 3-hour long ramblings. I thought back then he was a brilliant but damaged individual, now I think he's just damaged. Similar to Jordan Peterson he loved to cry and sob in front of his audience about a vast array of injustices, and he talked a lot about his evil mommy and absent daddy.
I used to follow Stefan when he was more a Libertarian and anti-religious. I stopped when he started going alt-right. I still somewhat like Jordan, but now I see some of his mistakes and ways around "uncomfortable" facts. There is also Rubin whom I stopped following, from TYT (left) to his show (initially libertarian with mixed left/right guests, now fully right). I stopped following Thunderf00t as well. There was also an older British atheist gentlemen (Collin something?) whom I stopped following as well. I even stopped following Matt Dillahunty, because he seems so angry all the time (I guess you get there after arguing so many Biblical literalists).
Sounds like you've had time to do some reflection. That's important, because without it people tend to hop out of one rabbit hole right into another. I've learned to stay clear of anyone with a self-appointed, unregulated title ("philosopher", "life coach", "preacher", "wellness practitioner", etc).
I was raised Roman Catholic, looking back I suspect I've always been an atheist. But I wasn't able to admit it to myself till my 32nd birthday! I remember being 5 or 6 years old. I was in the tub while my dad was at the sink shaving and I was asking him questions about god and not being satisfied by any of his answers. I fell into the red pill rabbit hole for a short time when my wife and I were having marital issues, the more I listened to them, the worse our marriage became. Thankfully we got through it and are much better off now.
I was a Catholic for 46 years. Since birth. But I always had curiosity about science and history. I always kept doubts away until the death of a close friend. The stupid answers and empty words I heard at the funeral opened a big window. I just wanted to know and to ask. And every believer just offered nonsense emotional word salad. I am now an atheist. And I can be at piece with myself.
@kevinnazario1015 My Aunt was murdered in 1997. I went to the bible for answers and didn't find any. What put me over the top was seeing all those people stuck on their rooftops and all the people suffering at the superdome after hurricane Katrina.
As the wife of a 'Red Pill-er' I congratulate you and your wife for finding a way through it. My husband and I have been trying to navigate this road for almost 10 years. I have thought about leaving. The hopelessness of the ideological divide between us has taken a severe toll on our 25 year relationship. We're still trying though. 💪🇺🇲💙💜❤️🩹 I'm center-left. He was a Libertarian. He's now MAGA. 🫠
@@JonO387 Not even close. Qanon is a fake news platform which easily penetrates weak & negative brains. It’s a pathetic load of bullcrap and it’s really embarrassing when you listen to a person who has fallen prey to it.
I used to tell the Q/MAGA cult that their motto made them sound like sheep when they would call me a sheep. They were insisting they were goats at that time until they were reminded what a goat represented. There was a group going into churches and training them to have armed guards in the congregation. That group's motto was Sheep no More. That was 2020/21.
23:59 "Is that part of the cult psychology? The more persecuted you are, the more people mock and throw stones at you, the more validated you feel?" the former Christian asks knowingly.
A childhood friend of mine, who is/was like a brother from another mother. He was the first person outside my blood family to hold my first child in his arms. Sadly, he got into that Stefan Moleneux character several years ago. It got so bad that I finally had to block and remove him from my life. I do miss my old friend. But, I just couldn't anymore.
It's so hard to have a friend in a cult. I know its frustrating, but if you can, just let him know you're still there for him & still care about him. Sometimes that lifeline, months or years later, is what finally pulls someone out.
I watched the "New Atheism" movement fracture. The only thing atheists have in common is we don't believe in god(s), so relying on fellow atheists for a community can be problematic. Watching Richard Dawkins lose his damn mind over some rather innocuous comments made by Rebecca Watson, plus a violent event at the Rational Response Squad (where I was once a moderator) made me realize I didn't want to go "all in" for any group. Like George Carlin, I've become suspicious of people in groups because it seems like every time I've joined one, I've had to sacrifice my intellectual autonomy.
The Atheist Plus movement fractured because many of them went full retard with their progressive politics. They took the feminist/LGBT ball and ran with it, never looking back.
Just for anyone, who didn’t already know, the creators/writers/directors of ‘The Matrix’ series, are now the Wachowski SISTERS. Lana, & Lilly Wachowski, are both transgender, & The Matrix is, largely, a trans allegory. ✌️😽🏳️⚧️
I've been an atheist since birth. I've been a lover of science my entire life. I pursued as much science as I could. I know that 50% of the Cosmos is absolutely unknowable, even for a hypothetical omniscient being. I'm fine with that. That is all and that is as good as it gets. I've been victimized by religion and by religious people for simply having the audacity of not believing their story about a talking snake. I advocate reason. Rationality is nice but a person can rationalize almost anything they wish to, and it is as simple as believing because a person wants to believe. I simply don't feel the need to believe nor to rationalize as much as I feel the need to believe things or disbelieve things based on the evidence given. There will never be enough evidence to prove in a mathematical sense things in a physical reality. But, physical reality is what we have. If we accept physical reality it matters not, because physical reality is inescapable. That's all. On an emotional sense, I try to foster rich relationships and do my best. That is all I can do. I will eventually pass away and that is fine. I might be forgotten in time and the Cosmos will not care because the Cosmos can not care. In some ways, this is of great comfort to me. But I am grateful for the mind I developed and grateful that no one person can determine my mind for me. Thanks to whoever has read this.
Hey just dont forget you are part of the cosmos, theres no point where you stop and the cosmos begins, if you care or someone around you cares then the cosmos cares, and there is no erasing the footprints youve left behind
Not trying to downplay your comment here, but where did you get that 50% figure? Saying you abide by reason while propagating baseless claims about what can or cannot be known is a weird take. I mean, I agree with most of what you claim in the rest of the comment. But that particular part really rubs me the wrong way and isnt helping your cause if you want to appear scientific and earnest in your search for truth.
The life cycle of religion: A group of like minds with an enthusiastic leader=cult, Time & acceptance=religion, Time & education=mythology, More time = an occasional fun read
I think Seth is right. I started to question at age 8, and came to the conclusion that Christianity was nonsense by the time I was 12 or 14, but it started as a matter of chance: we were told a Bible story, in Sunday school, that contradicted my sense of right and wrong. I was very lucky... lucky to have been told THAT story, lucky to have been paying particular attention at that moment, for whatever reason. If that moment, that sequence of events, hadn't come right then, it might not have happened for many years. It wasn't that I'm some spectacular genius... it was chance.
At the age of 8 I barely thought about anything like that. I can harldy imagine. At that time I still read greek, roman and norse myths and thought those gods to be as real as any other god people still believe to be real.
The story of Abraham slavishly willing to kill his child as a loyalty test to the deity, the torture of Job and murder of his entire family and animals as a loyalty test to the deity, the constant massacre of animals to satisfy the deity's never-ending crave for "pleasing aromas" deeply violated my sense of right and wrong. I also realized immediately that my parents would kill me if they thought for one minute God was insisting they do so. Their answer was "he wouldn't do that." Oh REALLLLY. But I danced the danced, buried the cognitive dissonance, and it still took me until my mid-20's to wake up and get out.
@@RealityMatters343I’m so lucky to have learned by the same method, but walking away from catholicism at 15, playing along until graduation from catholic high school. I’ve been to mass about ten times in the ensuing 59 years, always for a family wedding or funeral. I don’t understand all the superstition from an organization that says superstitions are sinful. Surprise, surprise.
@@RealityMatters343 for me, it was the story of Rahab, betraying her people to their deaths, at the hands of their enemies... and characterized as a heroine... that started the ball rolling. A few years later, the slaughter of the Amalekites sealed the deal. As you point out, there are numerous examples of moral depravity cast as virtue.
@@scribblescrabble3185 I probably wouldn't have, either, on my own. It was that the Sunday school teacher described Rahab, in Jericho, betraying her own people to their deaths by the attacking forces of Joshua, as a "righteous woman." Didn't seem very righteous, to me. At the time, I thought the teacher was just describing it badly. Started me reading the book for myself.
If you fear the consequences of questioning the beliefs of your friends or community, they are not really friends or community. Try to politely express doubt and study their reaction. If public dissent would lead to shunning, they are a cult and you are complicit
Any collective group has cult potential. No one is totally immune to falling under the influence of a cult. I think that the later statement is true, partly because of how we are raised. I don't know if there is any culture in existence that does not have some religious or spiritual belief or concept. We are all taught that there is this one figure that has all the answers, is the lawgiver that justly doles out rewards and punishments, that will protect us from every foe and pitfall, the ultimate perfect parent. But I think the problem goes deeper than that. I believe we have an innate need to have this one "safe place" we can turn to. We all crave this one person or place where we can put all our guards down, to be able to relax completely, to forget about our fears and apprehensions. We need to know that someone or something has our back, especially in our most vulnerable moments. I am 72 years old and the closest I have come to is a dog.
You described a very “western” cultural backdrop. Investigate various African or “Eastern” philosophies/ religion and you may find that the concept of “the one safe place/ person” is not universal.
I'm immune. In High School I was required to write my first research paper. Well I wrote it on the "Unification Church" a.k.a. the Moonies. Well, I did a deep dive and my research paper was on the techniques used in order to apply social pressure and brainwashing after a simple "weekend spiritual retreat" was turned into a six week stay. Incidentally it takes about six weeks to fully brainwash and indoctrinate somebody. There are techniques. If you know what you are looking for and are aware of them, then they are resistable. That is ALL it takes to become immune. Simply understanding the tactics and techniques is enough. And I think you are speaking for yourself when it comes to this need of a "safe space," more than making it a generalization of people in general. Yes, no person does make it through life entirely and solely on their own merits and work, and communities and society are needed. The difference is, there is a secular society and there always will be because there absolutely has to be a secular part of society or else it will collapse. That is the difference. People can form communities but what will make a cult a cult is the preponderance to rely on supernatural mumbo jumbo and some charismatic demogogue who portrays himself as the font of all wisdom, and is usually purported to be "ancient wisdom." This is nonsense. It is grifting. It is just the same scam repackaged and there is indeed nothing new about it, at all. Understanding and a good education does prevent people from falling into these tragic and doomed cults of personality. Do not make the mistake of confusing culture with cultism. Everybody needs to have a culture to belong to. But not everybody is willing to sacrifice their culture for the very dangerous place of being in a cult where the person is going to be manipulated and exploited.
No, we aren't all taught that. It's true that I live in a Christian-based culture because I live in Canada, but I was raised without any religion or concept of god/heaven/sin/saviour stuff. I don't think I am rare.
@@notbroken4342 You were not taught that directly, but the bleed over into the makeup of our societal norms is still there. i.e. It's up to the female to say no to premarital sex. Any and all sexual transgressions are because of the girl's or woman's weakness or evil intent.
Ever believed a lie? I have. If you can still be there for someone when they reach their disillusionment point, it really helps keep one from falling for another set of lies.
First time I'd ever heard of Stefan Molyneux was when the video of him blaming "hypergamous women" for the death of Robin Williams showed up in my feed. The idea that he could ever have sounded not-batshit frankly never occurred to me.
For some reason, I have fallen down a TH-cam vortex of ex-Mormon content lately. To the point where one day about half of my recommends on my main screen were ex-mo youtubers....and I had to start "Do not recommend channel" clicks to make them go away. (I am, apparently a unicorn in that I am a life long athiest. Raised in OK just like Seth...but not religious, never was) ...but I learned a few things about Mormonism through the deluge of ex-mo content that this red pill stuff reminds me of.. There are a lot of ex-mos, mostly women and they are really pissed off because: At its heart, Mormonism is a sex cult. Joe Smith had 30 wives. Brigham Young had more. They just disguised their incel, red pill ways with plural marriage and polygamy. And if you think, well they don't practice polygamy anymore, (Warren Jeffs enters the chat) ask these college educated women (BYU mostly) about their childhood indoctrination regarding sex, their virginity and what they "owed" their eventual husbands. ..and they have been doing it for over 100 years. The more things change...well you know.
Same... For some reason Mormonism fascinates me the most, because it's such an obviously ridiculous religion. I'm a lifelong atheist, who's become an antitheist at this point. I watch a couple of them. I watch some of the atheist channels, too. Hard to meet us in real life. Of course I get all the religious crap and scam ads. Have to do the same. The scam ads, especially religious ones, I file complaints with Google. I have morbid curiosity so of course religion would fascinate me.
Funny that you’ve just discovered Mormonism is a sex cult. I live in Europe and my first exposure to Mormons was decades ago as characters in some spaghetti westerns. They were portrayed as creepy old men with a lot of very young wives. So the image stuck with me. Looks like those movies had a degree of historical accuracy in them. 😅
trying to explain to a cult victim that they are a victim... oh boy... has that blown up on me before. i have just had to cut ties with my siblings; no matter how much it kills me. each person walks their own path... and you can't help someone that doesn't want help is what i have had to learn.
I used to grow up and live in a country with a dominant catholic religion. You can't question that church and their policies, as a kid I always question my mother all about the bible and end up kneeling on a salt while babbling the rosary especially why I have no interest in memorizing that darn prayers. She even throw me into the catholic HS which end up good for me on education. I think my Dad finally got fed up with her and told me never to stop questioning and finally he revealed to me why he never ever entered a church it's because Dad never believe in those BS. He encourage me a lot.
Wachowski sisters, the "brothers" have fully transitioned and identify as female, might as well throw the gender identity debate into the ring while we're at it
I think this is great advice. Don't try to reason with people who have fallen for a cult. Try to be present and be their friend, listen, and express skepticism when they try to recruit or persuade, but keep listening. ❤
I tried at least nine times in my lifetime. As soon as I got to the part about the sky daddy, the man out of mud fully formed, the talking snake and the magic apple that imparted morality, I shook my head in disgust. Now I meet very "religious" people and I see them for what they are: self congratulatory folks patting themselves on the back for doing nothing, learning nothing, and watching movies that play in their heads without engaging in hard facts and reality itself.
@@OceanusHelios Kids In Ministry International. Becky Fisher (Jesus Camp.)🚩 “Don’t just teach your children to read… teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything.” George Carlin. First Day at School: Dave Allen.
@@karenbrown938 “Don’t just teach your children to read… teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything.” George Carlin. First Day at School: Dave Allen.
If you're white, male, born in a 1st world country and especially an English-speaking country, and your parents are financially comfortable, you may feel you have a lot of special privileges and rights. You don't. Other people have exactly the same rights, regardless of their skin color, gender, the language they speak, where they live, or how wealthy they are. When this is pointed out to you, you may feel persecuted. It is this feeling of persecution that the Manosphere caters to.
This applies to the US, not sure about other places. Let's be real here. We all have the same rights, but those rights aren't applied equally to everyone. Gay people get attacked. Women get harassed at work. Minorities are more likely to get a harsh sentence. But also, tell me with a straight face that if white people had a parade celebrating their white ancestry, that it wouldn't be relentlessly criticized by every major news outlet. White people and men aren't allowed to have their own spaces in many people's eyes because it is considered bad. Other groups can do the exact same thing, and usually nobody cares except the white critics that get called racists/sexists for daring to have a problem with that. If one group can't have their own space, no group can have their own space. If one group can't celebrate their identity, no group can. This isn't even something I care about because I want to be around a lot of different types of people, but I see this obvious double standard. Sure, the main critics of these sorts of events are often fringe weirdos, but that would mean "MSM" is also fringe.. and that wouldn't make sense. Maybe it would, idk. Either way, this gets into polarization in politics which is a massive problem, but I digress.
Molineux was a sophist, his main technic was changing words meaning and then using them with gatcha questions (using new definitions nobody agreed with) he was actually just wining in his head.
I kinda believed, but in 9th grade I was in a hallway and it just didn't make any sense. I didn't think about it from the Christian perspective, I thought about it in general terms. Basically like this: Why would a god so powerful even care about me, let alone my worthless words to them? They want me to worship them, for what? Even if god does exist, it would be so incomprehensibly complicated that I couldn't hope to understand it. So, basically believed there could be something, but it wouldn't matter because I couldn't understand it anyway. Now, I think I probably think something similar, but I've become much more anti-theism. Especially the religions of Abraham, as obviously those are of the most pervasive in the US, the ones actively trying to ruin public education and more.
My two cents: Anytime you treat a group as a monolith, you set the stage for an "us vs. them" mentality. It doesn't matter what the idea is, or the size of the group, whether you're on the inside or the outside, one has to remember that every group is made up of individual people - each with their own experiences, traumas, opinions and biases. I'm an unapologetic liberal, and I used to be friends with Harry Crouch from the Nat'l Coalition For Men (you may know Harry from the movie "The Red Pill"). Unlike the Andrew Tates of the world, Harry is a kind and decent person who advocates for mens' rights, e.g. paternity rights, equality in child custody, etc. Not everyone involved is part of the alt-right faction who hijacked the "red pill" moniker, nor are they misogynists. At least, that was the case in 2016 when we last spoke. Ironically, I quit hanging around Harry & NCFM because so many of the people around him were Trump supporters, and the very notion baffled me (and still does). Anyway, FWIW. 🤷♂
Something Buddhism and Taoism do really well is teaching people to have compassion for ourselves and others. Being emotional and caring what others think of us is a feature not a bug. We're hard waired to be groupish and care about our standing. Since we;re all pretty much in the same boat, we would do well to learn compassion for the predicament we're all in at one point or another. It goes farther than being snarky and cynical. Once we put what we care about and what we worked hard on out in the world, we have no control over how people receive it or interact with it. Instead of wasting energy on anticipating and pre-empting nagative reaction, just don't be a jerk and you'll never have to worry about it.
Since I'm in the same province in Canada as Stephan, I was familiar with him very early on and could see the direction he was headed soon enough. I see how he could make it a cult that is part of American style Libertarianism.
That whole idea stems from The Matrix, which is a science *fiction* movie. Neo was given the option of taking a red pill, which would enable him to understand what was actually occurring outside the illusion created by the Matrix, or a blue pill, which would allow him to return to experiencing only that illusion. In the context of that "idea", religion = blue pill, anti-religion = red pill. That is if you're buying what you're selling here.
You know, I've been aware of Molyneux, his activities, and his positions for years now, but it never really occurred to me until Coleman was talking about it in this segment that he was really Jordan Peterson before Jordan Peterson. I was especially struck by Coleman's description of Molyneux offering untrained "relationship therapy" during his show; meanwhile, Peterson _actually is_ a therapist (or, at least, is trained as one). Maybe it's a coincidence that they're both Canadian, but it really does look like Peterson saw what Molyneux was doing and said to himself, "I can play this game too, only I can do it better, bucko!"
Maybe it’s just me but the on screen shares are taken down so fast I can barely read enough to know what they are saying. I know it’s TH-cam and I can pause it but I’d like to read them while listening instead of interrupting the speakers
41:26 This is what I've been doing with my mother, but I'm really frightened by her recent behavior. Home insurance prices have skyrocketed in rural California due to wildfires, so she may lose her house, the house where I grew up. The unsettled nature of the world has convinced her the rapture will happen any day now. Unfortunately, I believe our society is on the verge of collapse, but it's entirely due to manmade causes. She told me 1) I had to vote for Trump and, 2) if Trump doesn't win, she's moving to Missouri, and I have to go with her. I am disabled and cannot make ends meet on my own. Disability simply does not pay enough. I've tried to live on my own before and couldn't do it. So now, I may be forced to make a decision that could devastate my family and me. I literally cannot live without my family's support, but neither can I join the MAGA cult. I am completely out of options...so terrified.
The sad thing is that he didnt even represent the red pill ideas at all...andrew tate is fame chaser, and anyway mention the erguments not presonalities of a group...should we judge atheism based on dawkins arguments only? It would be laughable....call rian stone on your show to at least have honest look into red pill...
Thank you for this. I've been the antagonistic kind against some of the "idiocy" presented online. This perspective of "show them humanity" just never clicked in that regard, but now I think I've got a new tactic for engagement without pushing them further into isolation.
All the manosphere pills are quite weird, but the black pill take (that dating is mostly about looks, and looks is mostly genetic luck) is clearly true.
The most hilarious thing about the toxic men who had stolen the Red Pill symbol, the Red Pill originated as female hormone replacement therapy, and was put in The Matrix movie as a symbol of accepting your true self, even if that means gender transition. "Red Pill" is a transgender symbol and toxic misogynists are using it. Hilarious.
NHILISM for the WIN!!! we have to break our preconceptions down, break down what we THINK we know, and find out if it is ACTAULY the case. detangle meanings we have been programmed to have and reconstruct meanings that are true to our principles and reality. it really sucks feeling dumb.... realizing that we REALLY don't know much at all. but knowing you know nothing is the start of knowing something, IF we then take the steps to discover truths. too often people simply default to being intentionally ignorant. i am not saying we all have to know everything about everything. let's all just: 1) simply admit we don't know something when we don't know something 2) speak truthfully , accurately, and articulate our believes vs factual statements (providing context and source when needed) 3) generate a shared general knowledge across many topics. shared common knowledge allows for discussions of critical and intersectional thinking 4) be curious to find truths, and be a skeptic through out the journey
I know: 1: There are no such things as talking snakes. 2: There was never a magic apple that made people morally aware. 3: People do not walk on water that is deep enough to be submerged in, unless that water happens to be thick ice. 4: People don't live three days inside of a fish underwater. 5: Transmutation is a lie. It goes on. And I do know a lot of Molecular Biology because that is what my degree happesn to be in. I have meaning in my life and it is not the meaning that somebody has to spoon feed to me. My mind will not be given over to imbeciles who think their superstition somehow trumps reality.
Like Coleman said, to help people deprogram, the best thing you can do is just be their friend or family member, without argument or deprication. I would call this walking the walk, not talking the talk. Though he didn't manage to convert me, my late husband took this attitude toward his faith, and I appreciated his consideration. I think if he had been a member of an evangelical church, I think he would have been successful in being people into the church. He was not pushy or scary. He just lived what he considered to be a Christian life.
Hey Seth and listeners, in the definition for "cult" you have at the opening, Britannica's version contains the words "religious or quasi-religious". Any care to take a shot at defining the difference between those two adjectives?
It sounds like the pitch tries to capture those who may be starting to question and moving towards/entering their deconversion process, imho. Folks can be especially vulnerable here, especially the heavily indoctrinated, fear of shunning, etc.😢
Seeing the humanity in these red pill victims really is the right thing to do. The trouble comes when you try to convey that to the victim's victims, they're not going to hear that "coddling" stuff. Some red pill victims have done too much so to their victims it's going to sound like sympathy for the devil. *Although, I don't think the people shouting it down are either kind of victim themselves🤔...?
Very enjoyable conversation. If Coleman is a typical example of Quaker Universalism it can't be bad at all. The humour aspect may seem peripheral but I would say that a sense of humour (especially about oneself) is a great protection against the worst aspects of high control groups and possibly a good guide to the character of politicians?
Who else remembers the time Stephan Molineux got a glowing with high praise comment from himself? He forgot to sign into one of his female sock accounts before writing stuff like: "As an independent young woman, I think you really understand why yadah yadah ya" 😂
When the appeals are always to emotions and instinct while avoiding appeals to the intellect you can condition people to only respond to those appeals.
Talking about Molyneux's grift drift sounds like you could be talking about Russell Brand... or a whole slew of these of these types who rework their shtick to maximumise audience capture, and unfortunately, there seems to be an endless supply of people looking for easy answers willing to go along with people who are good at bullshitting with certainty..
When I cannot watch this podcast on youtube I listen to it on Apple podcasts. This one stopped after “hard targets” 42:17. I thought I had accidentally turned it off but no, it just stops there. Just thought you should know in case there is a bug in your system. Came to finish the episode.
Une conversation très intéressante. J'ai commencé à m'intéresser à la pilule rouge à l'époque où Ayaan Hirsi Ali a déclaré que l'Occident avait été détruit par l'idéologie woke.
The successful movements always have some truth behind them. Boys are doing worse now in school than ever, the lack of any programs to deal with this is a real problem. All the while you have great concern about getting more women into science and engineering, and money pouring into programs to promote getting girls into STEM. How about just keeping boys from dropping out and graduating, moving on to post secondary education?
Someone should launch a informative campaign with a slogan for teenagers saying "it's smart and cool being a nerd 🤓". Luckily, there will less people bullied too
This one's truth is just that sexism is alive and well. If you do a Google search you find that one study from 2012 get kicked around the various news sites cause it lends itself well to alarmist outrage. But if you go to Google scholar you find that, while true, the men who are less educated are still making more money and the higher education jobs are now being devalued. Education has been cast as not manly, so the men who drop out are actually being incentivised to do so by other men.
The jobs won't be there if manufacturing doesn't come back. Manufacturing won't come back unless there is state funding and forcing it to come back. Manufacturing won't come back as long as their are these idiot "economics" gurus at the wheel preaching libertatiranism and worshipping the "free market" and manufcaturing won't come back as long as we hold these "values." China does not and will not play by our rules. China is a result of libertarianism gone unchecked and so is the globalism. The result is cabals and strategically important resources such as steel being outsourced. It is a drain on talent. It is a drain on technical know how. It is a drain that we keep spiraling downward into. Promoting Medieval thinking and this garbage about libertarianism being good is the problem. We need to urgently ramp up manufacturing. Even "lights out" factories need maintenance workers and technicians who understand the equipment. Steel is absolutely critical in STEM and so is glassware. Materials and material handling systems and workers are needed. There is a drought in skills and the superstitious nonsense and the mealy mouthed preaching of dimwits ARE the problem. To solve the "poor little dumb dudes" issue we need to quit placating and indulging these "poor little dumb dudes." It is sink or swim and if they can not and refuse to keep up with the girls, then the girls will beat them. That's it. Yes, I have degrees. One happens to be Machine Tool Technology and I have worked in factories and I have seen the results of non engineering "by gum!" farmers attacking problems with their nonsense, having "drawers" who "drew pictures" instead of engineering. I've seen disasters in the making and I've seen patent infringements. I've seen recklessness on mine sites and I have seen bozos being overpaid and undereducated and unqualififed being given jobs according to being one of these "poor picked on dudes" who were mindless but willing to work for next to nothing. I've seen deadly situations manifest themselves and I've seen the insides of modern day sweat shops. I will not feel pity for boys who grow up thinking that people are just going to move out of the way for their lack of skills, and lack of education. We've had far too much coddling and promotion of sports over intelligence for decades, and here we are. Those manufacturing jobs being shipped out were a choice done by stockholders and CEOs. Why? To break unions and "teach us a lesson" and pad their own pockets. I'm all for revolution if the people are forced into it. Their big g can sort them out when they get to their magical sky place. Something needs to be done, even if it includes sending fully grown men and middle aged men to college if it is needed to educate them to do the damned job right the first time. People think they should be paid for exploiting others, voting against their own interest, and sitting on their asses watching Fox news and crying like bratty children because of brown people. I'm fed up with the lot of them and their insistence they can fix the problems they caused in the first place. The entire point of "the right" is to force those boys to drop out so they will be forever locked in a cycle of ditch digging, doing construction work for nothing, and otherwise getting thrown into wars of conquest. This is why I have such spite and contempt for the whole lot of them. Creating problems where they shouldn't exist in order to enrich themselves and always looking and thinking in a backwards way, and never seeing the possibilities of what could be.
@@darkcircles06men still make more money than women even if they do not have the fancy degrees , many blue collar jobs pay quite a lot and men deserve it for the hard work they do the long hours they work we women have no other option except university education or a minimum wage job I just wish mother hood cooking and cleaning was monitised.
@@darkcircles06 So it your contention, that somehow men not only still out earn but are also the reason why graduation rates have dropped?! Women, through affirmative action and all of the programs to educate and move them up corporately are out earning men...you just need to look at the correct cohort. Many men have always looked down on geeks, it never stopped them before. No it is the way that elementary schools and to some extent high schools are run (primarily by women). There isn't even a question about it at this point, the statistics are in. It is amazing how people will blame men and boys for the problems that female run institutions put in their way (elementary school educators). Modern educated women seem to see it as a zero sum game, for women to win men have to lose, clearly no so, but that's how they see the world, and that is why they have no problem with boys dropping out.
There was a time when I found The New Atheists and watched endless videos. He was one of those new atheists who's videos I watched ' . But then I realized that he was a racist and stropped watching his videos I had not thought of him in years
A friend of mine was (maybe still is?) a bit Molyneux follower. A few years ago he sent me a documentary by Molyneux which according to him was the best documentary ever and explained everything about how the world works and so on. So I watched it. And it was quite a suffering, first of all it was quite long, like 2+ (maybe 3) hours. It was something about big oil or something? I mean the documentary itself was well-made and everything but it didn't make the slightest sense to me. A lot of forced connections were made between things that might or might not have happened. Later I learned he was promoting the idea of the "new worlds order", basically saying that there is a small group of people who want nothing but money and power and for hundreds of years they have been secretly steering the world in directions of their liking. At some point I also checked out Molyneux's website and some of his videos, and he is really going quantitiy over quality. Like making videos of several hours long where he is just repeating the same idea over and over again. He is always citing so many "facts" that is really impossible even to rebunk them unless you are spending most of your life trying to do so.
Wow, when I first became an atheist, Stefan was one of the people I often listened to here on TH-cam. I don't recall why, but I eventually just kind of drifted away from his videos and eventually just stopped watching them. I don't think it was because of any big red flag, or something. I just kind of stopped. I haven't heard his name though in years, until this video here.
I've found the notion of just 2(binary) choices limiting. Red or Blue? What happened to the clear pill? Or for those not ready, the green, yellow or black pill? Btw, it's not too much of a stretch to see the influence Tibetian Vajrayana philosophy had on the writers of the matrix. You might wanna do some reading on the colours they use with the Tibetian book of the dead.
I have been an Atheist My whole life. Hold Most Conservative values. Some Socially Liberal Values., but Very Fiscally conservative Values. You do not have to check off all boxes to vote one way or another. I don't go to rallies, just like I don't to church. We need to stop this Foot Ball Game mentality, this team or that. I'm A Conservative Atheist. We do Exist.
In other words, you are halfway there to self awareness. Well done. When you discover that "conservatives" conserve absolutely nothing and raid taxation coffers and put the money to exploitive things, and realize that "conservatives" are cutting the social safety nets of others in order to enrich themselves...and when you learn the game of "Monopoly" was meant to be a lesson about living in a libertarian hell, then you quit being fiscally conservative. You will realize that you are just a little fish and you shouldn't be feeding the sharks, because the sharks dine on little fish. This is how that works. I look forward to the day when people claiming to be the font of all wisdom financially....realize that taxes aren't robbing them but they are getting robbed through their mortgages and through the artificial inflation of goods and services. Having one world corporation is "Conservative." Spoiler Alert: The Dutch East India company, the first and largest and most wealthy corporation to ever have existed....put the value of property over lives. It resulted in the slave trade and disasters. It eventually collapsed under its own weight. What happened? Embezzlement, corruption, and "making the rules up" by giving all the employees and leadership of it absolute authority. It was also the most corrupt institutions to ever have existed. Look into the Wreck of the Batavia and the mutiny. You'll see just what a result of that kind of thinking can be. If you are willing to exploit others for weath and security, then what happens is people begin to fight back and have revolts, revolutions, mutinies, or resort to embezzlement, fraud, and a host of other things that will lead to the collapse of the entire system. Systemic exploitation or being "conservative" only ends one way: collapse and revolution. That is what happened during the French Revolution. It has a hay day until it doesn't. It is popular until it explodes.
I think that a strong process is needed to avoid falling into these beliefs. It comes down to luck - if you have the right education you have some defences, but anyone can just get caught at the wrong point when your defences are off
Odd how you never questioned why he hated women and if/how that's changed... Sounds like, from what he said, he got out of the cult because the bros weren't nice to him, rather than confronting his misogyny.
I make bad decisions all the time. I know they are bad when I make them. I don't try make them sound good. Like last night I stayed up to 3ish am. When I have to be at work about 7:30 am. I knew it was a bad idea but I want too. I do that all the time. I think this is a bad idea but I want to do it anyway... especially food.
Plus, Red Pill is not exclusively to conservatives, although conservatives bent to embrace Red Pill as a way to drive women back to the old traditions.
My mom raised us all Christian but developed concerns about the state of Christendom after churches failed to adequately address two abusive husbands in a row. She went to seminary in her 60s with a goal of making things better from the inside, and a few years later she is now an atheist. It's fascinating how people can and do evolve at all ages.
I find it fascinating and frightening to see people say that they are not believers, without realizing for themselves that they are members of a scientific democratic cult.
Now pledge allegiance to the flag and obey the democratic and scientific priesthood, like the good citizen you have been trained to be.
You haven't forgotten what the well behaved citizens repeated endlessly for the last few years, follow the science!!
But at least they don't believe in god anymore.
@@MrGunnar69 🤭 That's just silly.
@MrGunnar69 truly the most powerful argument in the entire universe. "No u"
I love that for your mother, and I hope the people those husbands abused ultimately got justice and healing. It really is a fine line between a cult and a religion. I think it's longevity.
@@MrGunnar69 Do you sell these tinnfoil hats?
Cult (definition): The church down the street from your church.
Perfectly said.
Low key genius
Sect: the church less often visited and further away?
😂😂😂
For me - every churches.
The women hating rabbit hole goes very deep indeed.
So true!!!
Mommy so mean 😢.
It's all Mommy's fault 😮💨
I hate Mommy! 😡
Wake me when the Boys grow up.
hold up. calling women out on their sht is not hating on them. and it's a reality that women from other countries are 10 times better than western women because they have not been indoctrinated by feminism.
I cringed pretty hard when Stefan Molyneux's name came up. I used to be a frequent listener of his podcast 10-12 years ago and even parroted some of his ideas. He has always marketed himself as a philosopher, but strangely I never learned any philosophy from his 3-hour long ramblings. I thought back then he was a brilliant but damaged individual, now I think he's just damaged. Similar to Jordan Peterson he loved to cry and sob in front of his audience about a vast array of injustices, and he talked a lot about his evil mommy and absent daddy.
I used to follow Stefan when he was more a Libertarian and anti-religious. I stopped when he started going alt-right.
I still somewhat like Jordan, but now I see some of his mistakes and ways around "uncomfortable" facts.
There is also Rubin whom I stopped following, from TYT (left) to his show (initially libertarian with mixed left/right guests, now fully right).
I stopped following Thunderf00t as well.
There was also an older British atheist gentlemen (Collin something?) whom I stopped following as well.
I even stopped following Matt Dillahunty, because he seems so angry all the time (I guess you get there after arguing so many Biblical literalists).
@@gorgthesaltyyou should watch Some More News talk about Jordan Peterson. It's really enlightening
Sounds like you've had time to do some reflection. That's important, because without it people tend to hop out of one rabbit hole right into another. I've learned to stay clear of anyone with a self-appointed, unregulated title ("philosopher", "life coach", "preacher", "wellness practitioner", etc).
I was raised Roman Catholic, looking back I suspect I've always been an atheist. But I wasn't able to admit it to myself till my 32nd birthday! I remember being 5 or 6 years old. I was in the tub while my dad was at the sink shaving and I was asking him questions about god and not being satisfied by any of his answers. I fell into the red pill rabbit hole for a short time when my wife and I were having marital issues, the more I listened to them, the worse our marriage became. Thankfully we got through it and are much better off now.
Wow. The fact y'all are together sounds like a tale and a half. I'm glad yall found some peace.
I was a Catholic for 46 years. Since birth. But I always had curiosity about science and history. I always kept doubts away until the death of a close friend. The stupid answers and empty words I heard at the funeral opened a big window. I just wanted to know and to ask. And every believer just offered nonsense emotional word salad. I am now an atheist. And I can be at piece with myself.
@kevinnazario1015 My Aunt was murdered in 1997. I went to the bible for answers and didn't find any. What put me over the top was seeing all those people stuck on their rooftops and all the people suffering at the superdome after hurricane Katrina.
As the wife of a 'Red Pill-er' I congratulate you and your wife for finding a way through it.
My husband and I have been trying to navigate this road for almost 10 years. I have thought about leaving. The hopelessness of the ideological divide between us has taken a severe toll on our 25 year relationship. We're still trying though. 💪🇺🇲💙💜❤️🩹
I'm center-left. He was a Libertarian. He's now MAGA. 🫠
@@Pythone55 I mean this with all sincerity, good luck and stay safe. We all go through our own struggles and we have to do what’s best for us.
QAnon: Because the slogan "Where We Go One, We Go All" is PERFECT for sheep herding.
Does QAnon mean liberal?
@@JonO387 No, QAnon is a far-right political movement, which spreads a lot of unsubstanciated claims, that are still believed by their followers.
@@JonO387
Not even close. Qanon is a fake news platform which easily penetrates weak & negative brains. It’s a pathetic load of bullcrap and it’s really embarrassing when you listen to a person who has fallen prey to it.
@@JonO387Considering most of the followers love Trump, obviously it doesn’t mean liberal.
You learned nothing from this video.
I used to tell the Q/MAGA cult that their motto made them sound like sheep when they would call me a sheep. They were insisting they were goats at that time until they were reminded what a goat represented. There was a group going into churches and training them to have armed guards in the congregation. That group's motto was Sheep no More. That was 2020/21.
23:59 "Is that part of the cult psychology? The more persecuted you are, the more people mock and throw stones at you, the more validated you feel?" the former Christian asks knowingly.
A childhood friend of mine, who is/was like a brother from another mother. He was the first person outside my blood family to hold my first child in his arms. Sadly, he got into that Stefan Moleneux character several years ago. It got so bad that I finally had to block and remove him from my life. I do miss my old friend. But, I just couldn't anymore.
It's so hard to have a friend in a cult. I know its frustrating, but if you can, just let him know you're still there for him & still care about him. Sometimes that lifeline, months or years later, is what finally pulls someone out.
Its easier to fool a person than it is to convince them they have been fooled!! Mark Twain
i know. the feminist cult that have convinced women to hate men is beyond ridiculous but they do not see it and now they are paying the consequences.
Showing patience and kindness is not weak. The fact that it's so difficult while cruelty is so easy is proof of this.
I watched the "New Atheism" movement fracture. The only thing atheists have in common is we don't believe in god(s), so relying on fellow atheists for a community can be problematic. Watching Richard Dawkins lose his damn mind over some rather innocuous comments made by Rebecca Watson, plus a violent event at the Rational Response Squad (where I was once a moderator) made me realize I didn't want to go "all in" for any group. Like George Carlin, I've become suspicious of people in groups because it seems like every time I've joined one, I've had to sacrifice my intellectual autonomy.
The Atheist Plus movement fractured because many of them went full retard with their progressive politics. They took the feminist/LGBT ball and ran with it, never looking back.
Greed seems like the most significant motivation for perpetuating cons, both as the benefactor and the conman.
There's always someone with an antisocial personality behind. Yes, greed and also power and control.
Narcissism is usually rampant too. Greed. Narcissism. The need to be worshipped and idolized. It always comes to no good end.
@@OceanusHelios Jon Blistein: How Tom Cruise Got Us to Forget About His Scientology Ties 🎬
@@OceanusHelios "The need to be worshipped and idolized. "
yep. the feminists are getting out of control.
Just for anyone, who didn’t already know, the creators/writers/directors of ‘The Matrix’ series, are now the Wachowski SISTERS. Lana, & Lilly Wachowski, are both transgender, & The Matrix is, largely, a trans allegory. ✌️😽🏳️⚧️
The irony right?❤
that is disgusting. brainwashing people into becoming trans. that really is a cult.
This is good stuff. As an ex-mormon, it never ceases to amaze me where undue influence can be found.
So glad you got out!!🎉❤
I've been an atheist since birth. I've been a lover of science my entire life. I pursued as much science as I could. I know that 50% of the Cosmos is absolutely unknowable, even for a hypothetical omniscient being. I'm fine with that. That is all and that is as good as it gets. I've been victimized by religion and by religious people for simply having the audacity of not believing their story about a talking snake. I advocate reason. Rationality is nice but a person can rationalize almost anything they wish to, and it is as simple as believing because a person wants to believe. I simply don't feel the need to believe nor to rationalize as much as I feel the need to believe things or disbelieve things based on the evidence given. There will never be enough evidence to prove in a mathematical sense things in a physical reality. But, physical reality is what we have. If we accept physical reality it matters not, because physical reality is inescapable. That's all.
On an emotional sense, I try to foster rich relationships and do my best. That is all I can do. I will eventually pass away and that is fine. I might be forgotten in time and the Cosmos will not care because the Cosmos can not care. In some ways, this is of great comfort to me. But I am grateful for the mind I developed and grateful that no one person can determine my mind for me. Thanks to whoever has read this.
Hey just dont forget you are part of the cosmos, theres no point where you stop and the cosmos begins, if you care or someone around you cares then the cosmos cares, and there is no erasing the footprints youve left behind
Not trying to downplay your comment here, but where did you get that 50% figure? Saying you abide by reason while propagating baseless claims about what can or cannot be known is a weird take. I mean, I agree with most of what you claim in the rest of the comment. But that particular part really rubs me the wrong way and isnt helping your cause if you want to appear scientific and earnest in your search for truth.
The life cycle of religion: A group of like minds with an enthusiastic leader=cult, Time & acceptance=religion, Time & education=mythology, More time = an occasional fun read
Also any other human activity this can be applied to.
I think Seth is right. I started to question at age 8, and came to the conclusion that Christianity was nonsense by the time I was 12 or 14, but it started as a matter of chance: we were told a Bible story, in Sunday school, that contradicted my sense of right and wrong. I was very lucky... lucky to have been told THAT story, lucky to have been paying particular attention at that moment, for whatever reason. If that moment, that sequence of events, hadn't come right then, it might not have happened for many years. It wasn't that I'm some spectacular genius... it was chance.
At the age of 8 I barely thought about anything like that. I can harldy imagine. At that time I still read greek, roman and norse myths and thought those gods to be as real as any other god people still believe to be real.
The story of Abraham slavishly willing to kill his child as a loyalty test to the deity, the torture of Job and murder of his entire family and animals as a loyalty test to the deity, the constant massacre of animals to satisfy the deity's never-ending crave for "pleasing aromas" deeply violated my sense of right and wrong. I also realized immediately that my parents would kill me if they thought for one minute God was insisting they do so. Their answer was "he wouldn't do that." Oh REALLLLY. But I danced the danced, buried the cognitive dissonance, and it still took me until my mid-20's to wake up and get out.
@@RealityMatters343I’m so lucky to have learned by the same method, but walking away from catholicism at 15, playing along until graduation from catholic high school. I’ve been to mass about ten times in the ensuing 59 years, always for a family wedding or funeral. I don’t understand all the superstition from an organization that says superstitions are sinful. Surprise, surprise.
@@RealityMatters343 for me, it was the story of Rahab, betraying her people to their deaths, at the hands of their enemies... and characterized as a heroine... that started the ball rolling. A few years later, the slaughter of the Amalekites sealed the deal. As you point out, there are numerous examples of moral depravity cast as virtue.
@@scribblescrabble3185 I probably wouldn't have, either, on my own. It was that the Sunday school teacher described Rahab, in Jericho, betraying her own people to their deaths by the attacking forces of Joshua, as a "righteous woman." Didn't seem very righteous, to me. At the time, I thought the teacher was just describing it badly. Started me reading the book for myself.
If you fear the consequences of questioning the beliefs of your friends or community, they are not really friends or community. Try to politely express doubt and study their reaction. If public dissent would lead to shunning, they are a cult and you are complicit
Very well said, and thank you for articulating this in this way.
That can apply to any group. It's a part but not the whole.
@@duaneelliott5194 Yes it can apply to any group and no one is immune to cultish thinking.
Democracy is not freedom.
Any collective group has cult potential. No one is totally immune to falling under the influence of a cult. I think that the later statement is true, partly because of how we are raised. I don't know if there is any culture in existence that does not have some religious or spiritual belief or concept. We are all taught that there is this one figure that has all the answers, is the lawgiver that justly doles out rewards and punishments, that will protect us from every foe and pitfall, the ultimate perfect parent. But I think the problem goes deeper than that. I believe we have an innate need to have this one "safe place" we can turn to. We all crave this one person or place where we can put all our guards down, to be able to relax completely, to forget about our fears and apprehensions. We need to know that someone or something has our back, especially in our most vulnerable moments.
I am 72 years old and the closest I have come to is a dog.
You described a very “western” cultural backdrop. Investigate various African or “Eastern” philosophies/ religion and you may find that the concept of “the one safe place/ person” is not universal.
I'm immune. In High School I was required to write my first research paper. Well I wrote it on the "Unification Church" a.k.a. the Moonies. Well, I did a deep dive and my research paper was on the techniques used in order to apply social pressure and brainwashing after a simple "weekend spiritual retreat" was turned into a six week stay. Incidentally it takes about six weeks to fully brainwash and indoctrinate somebody. There are techniques. If you know what you are looking for and are aware of them, then they are resistable. That is ALL it takes to become immune. Simply understanding the tactics and techniques is enough. And I think you are speaking for yourself when it comes to this need of a "safe space," more than making it a generalization of people in general. Yes, no person does make it through life entirely and solely on their own merits and work, and communities and society are needed. The difference is, there is a secular society and there always will be because there absolutely has to be a secular part of society or else it will collapse. That is the difference. People can form communities but what will make a cult a cult is the preponderance to rely on supernatural mumbo jumbo and some charismatic demogogue who portrays himself as the font of all wisdom, and is usually purported to be "ancient wisdom." This is nonsense. It is grifting. It is just the same scam repackaged and there is indeed nothing new about it, at all. Understanding and a good education does prevent people from falling into these tragic and doomed cults of personality. Do not make the mistake of confusing culture with cultism. Everybody needs to have a culture to belong to. But not everybody is willing to sacrifice their culture for the very dangerous place of being in a cult where the person is going to be manipulated and exploited.
No, we aren't all taught that. It's true that I live in a Christian-based culture because I live in Canada, but I was raised without any religion or concept of god/heaven/sin/saviour stuff. I don't think I am rare.
@@notbroken4342 You were not taught that directly, but the bleed over into the makeup of our societal norms is still there. i.e. It's up to the female to say no to premarital sex. Any and all sexual transgressions are because of the girl's or woman's weakness or evil intent.
Same here
Thankyou Seth. This guest , Coleman,was great. I checked his channel. Subbed, gonna binge!👍🏼🌊💙💙💙🌊🥰✌🏽
Welcome to my inner circle 😆
Ever believed a lie? I have.
If you can still be there for someone when they reach their disillusionment point, it really helps keep one from falling for another set of lies.
My grandmother always said...
"Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?" Being right does not always lead to happiness.
You avoid cults by never putting strangers' importance above your own.
Never say never or always.
Freaking brilliant!!
Strangers telling me to follow the science?
@@MrGunnar69 What does following expert advice have to do with considering the person giving that advice as so important that you would die for them?
First time I'd ever heard of Stefan Molyneux was when the video of him blaming "hypergamous women" for the death of Robin Williams showed up in my feed. The idea that he could ever have sounded not-batshit frankly never occurred to me.
I escaped a Red Pill cult, too…
…by never joining one
One doesn't knowingly join cults. 😅
Most people in cults don’t know they’re in cults
the word you are looking for is "avoid" not escape. Escape would mean you were in one to begin with
you took the blue one instead
For some reason, I have fallen down a TH-cam vortex of ex-Mormon content lately. To the point where one day about half of my recommends on my main screen were ex-mo youtubers....and I had to start "Do not recommend channel" clicks to make them go away. (I am, apparently a unicorn in that I am a life long athiest. Raised in OK just like Seth...but not religious, never was)
...but I learned a few things about Mormonism through the deluge of ex-mo content that this red pill stuff reminds me of..
There are a lot of ex-mos, mostly women and they are really pissed off because:
At its heart, Mormonism is a sex cult. Joe Smith had 30 wives. Brigham Young had more. They just disguised their incel, red pill ways with plural marriage and polygamy.
And if you think, well they don't practice polygamy anymore, (Warren Jeffs enters the chat) ask these college educated women (BYU mostly) about their childhood indoctrination regarding sex, their virginity and what they "owed" their eventual husbands.
..and they have been doing it for over 100 years.
The more things change...well you know.
Same... For some reason Mormonism fascinates me the most, because it's such an obviously ridiculous religion. I'm a lifelong atheist, who's become an antitheist at this point. I watch a couple of them. I watch some of the atheist channels, too. Hard to meet us in real life. Of course I get all the religious crap and scam ads. Have to do the same. The scam ads, especially religious ones, I file complaints with Google. I have morbid curiosity so of course religion would fascinate me.
Funny that you’ve just discovered Mormonism is a sex cult. I live in Europe and my first exposure to Mormons was decades ago as characters in some spaghetti westerns. They were portrayed as creepy old men with a lot of very young wives. So the image stuck with me. Looks like those movies had a degree of historical accuracy in them. 😅
trying to explain to a cult victim that they are a victim... oh boy... has that blown up on me before.
i have just had to cut ties with my siblings; no matter how much it kills me.
each person walks their own path... and you can't help someone that doesn't want help is what i have had to learn.
I used to grow up and live in a country with a dominant catholic religion. You can't question that church and their policies, as a kid I always question my mother all about the bible and end up kneeling on a salt while babbling the rosary especially why I have no interest in memorizing that darn prayers. She even throw me into the catholic HS which end up good for me on education. I think my Dad finally got fed up with her and told me never to stop questioning and finally he revealed to me why he never ever entered a church it's because Dad never believe in those BS. He encourage me a lot.
Thank you Seth for a great interview!
My cat’s breath smells like cat food
So refreshing to listen to an anthropologist discuss his cult experience. I’m still giggling over his “cargo cult” reference.
Wachowski sisters, the "brothers" have fully transitioned and identify as female, might as well throw the gender identity debate into the ring while we're at it
Thank you
I think this is great advice. Don't try to reason with people who have fallen for a cult. Try to be present and be their friend, listen, and express skepticism when they try to recruit or persuade, but keep listening. ❤
I used to try being religious. No one believed it for a second so I finally admitted I’m a born atheist. 😸
I tried at least nine times in my lifetime. As soon as I got to the part about the sky daddy, the man out of mud fully formed, the talking snake and the magic apple that imparted morality, I shook my head in disgust. Now I meet very "religious" people and I see them for what they are: self congratulatory folks patting themselves on the back for doing nothing, learning nothing, and watching movies that play in their heads without engaging in hard facts and reality itself.
I get the wanting to fit in emotion, but there comes a point when you have to admit you're only fooling yourself.
@@OceanusHelios Kids In Ministry International. Becky Fisher (Jesus Camp.)🚩 “Don’t just teach your children to read… teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything.” George Carlin. First Day at School: Dave Allen.
@@karenbrown938 “Don’t just teach your children to read… teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything.” George Carlin. First Day at School: Dave Allen.
I was brought up with no religion at all and have no religion in my life now. It is so refreshing and free.
If you're white, male, born in a 1st world country and especially an English-speaking country, and your parents are financially comfortable, you may feel you have a lot of special privileges and rights. You don't.
Other people have exactly the same rights, regardless of their skin color, gender, the language they speak, where they live, or how wealthy they are.
When this is pointed out to you, you may feel persecuted. It is this feeling of persecution that the Manosphere caters to.
I think is victimization so the lider can manipulate that sense of shame to get followers. The German painter did with the population.
This applies to the US, not sure about other places.
Let's be real here. We all have the same rights, but those rights aren't applied equally to everyone. Gay people get attacked. Women get harassed at work. Minorities are more likely to get a harsh sentence. But also, tell me with a straight face that if white people had a parade celebrating their white ancestry, that it wouldn't be relentlessly criticized by every major news outlet.
White people and men aren't allowed to have their own spaces in many people's eyes because it is considered bad. Other groups can do the exact same thing, and usually nobody cares except the white critics that get called racists/sexists for daring to have a problem with that. If one group can't have their own space, no group can have their own space. If one group can't celebrate their identity, no group can. This isn't even something I care about because I want to be around a lot of different types of people, but I see this obvious double standard. Sure, the main critics of these sorts of events are often fringe weirdos, but that would mean "MSM" is also fringe.. and that wouldn't make sense. Maybe it would, idk. Either way, this gets into polarization in politics which is a massive problem, but I digress.
I've always taken the definition of cult as a religion without political pull.
How long did it take you to understand that Molineux had lots of questions but his "solutions" were garbage? Not long, just as for Jordan Peterson.
Molineux was a sophist, his main technic was changing words meaning and then using them with gatcha questions (using new definitions nobody agreed with) he was actually just wining in his head.
Instant subscription, well done gentlemen!!❤👍💯🎯
I've been a free thinker and atheist since age thirteen. I've never been in a cult and never will.
I kinda believed, but in 9th grade I was in a hallway and it just didn't make any sense. I didn't think about it from the Christian perspective, I thought about it in general terms. Basically like this:
Why would a god so powerful even care about me, let alone my worthless words to them? They want me to worship them, for what?
Even if god does exist, it would be so incomprehensibly complicated that I couldn't hope to understand it.
So, basically believed there could be something, but it wouldn't matter because I couldn't understand it anyway.
Now, I think I probably think something similar, but I've become much more anti-theism. Especially the religions of Abraham, as obviously those are of the most pervasive in the US, the ones actively trying to ruin public education and more.
@@Gandhi_Physique “Don’t just teach your children to read… teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything.” George Carlin.
@@hellepost1439 RIP to an absolute legend.
My two cents: Anytime you treat a group as a monolith, you set the stage for an "us vs. them" mentality. It doesn't matter what the idea is, or the size of the group, whether you're on the inside or the outside, one has to remember that every group is made up of individual people - each with their own experiences, traumas, opinions and biases. I'm an unapologetic liberal, and I used to be friends with Harry Crouch from the Nat'l Coalition For Men (you may know Harry from the movie "The Red Pill"). Unlike the Andrew Tates of the world, Harry is a kind and decent person who advocates for mens' rights, e.g. paternity rights, equality in child custody, etc. Not everyone involved is part of the alt-right faction who hijacked the "red pill" moniker, nor are they misogynists. At least, that was the case in 2016 when we last spoke. Ironically, I quit hanging around Harry & NCFM because so many of the people around him were Trump supporters, and the very notion baffled me (and still does). Anyway, FWIW. 🤷♂
Damn this guy has a 5 star speaking voice ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Something Buddhism and Taoism do really well is teaching people to have compassion for ourselves and others. Being emotional and caring what others think of us is a feature not a bug. We're hard waired to be groupish and care about our standing. Since we;re all pretty much in the same boat, we would do well to learn compassion for the predicament we're all in at one point or another. It goes farther than being snarky and cynical. Once we put what we care about and what we worked hard on out in the world, we have no control over how people receive it or interact with it. Instead of wasting energy on anticipating and pre-empting nagative reaction, just don't be a jerk and you'll never have to worry about it.
Since I'm in the same province in Canada as Stephan, I was familiar with him very early on and could see the direction he was headed soon enough. I see how he could make it a cult that is part of American style Libertarianism.
For a channel called the thinking atheist, I was shocked at how profoundly narrow and one-sided this analysis was.
How so? 🤔
That whole idea stems from The Matrix, which is a science *fiction* movie.
Neo was given the option of taking a red pill, which would enable him to understand what was actually occurring outside the illusion created by the Matrix, or a blue pill, which would allow him to return to experiencing only that illusion.
In the context of that "idea", religion = blue pill, anti-religion = red pill. That is if you're buying what you're selling here.
May I please get a Tshirt that says “we are all emotional bags full of meat”???
In Lord of the Rings, Smeagel, when 'talking' to his internal other, Gollum, he says 'not listening, not listening'. = All religions.
You know, I've been aware of Molyneux, his activities, and his positions for years now, but it never really occurred to me until Coleman was talking about it in this segment that he was really Jordan Peterson before Jordan Peterson. I was especially struck by Coleman's description of Molyneux offering untrained "relationship therapy" during his show; meanwhile, Peterson _actually is_ a therapist (or, at least, is trained as one). Maybe it's a coincidence that they're both Canadian, but it really does look like Peterson saw what Molyneux was doing and said to himself, "I can play this game too, only I can do it better, bucko!"
Maybe it’s just me but the on screen shares are taken down so fast I can barely read enough to know what they are saying. I know it’s TH-cam and I can pause it but I’d like to read them while listening instead of interrupting the speakers
41:26 This is what I've been doing with my mother, but I'm really frightened by her recent behavior. Home insurance prices have skyrocketed in rural California due to wildfires, so she may lose her house, the house where I grew up. The unsettled nature of the world has convinced her the rapture will happen any day now.
Unfortunately, I believe our society is on the verge of collapse, but it's entirely due to manmade causes.
She told me 1) I had to vote for Trump and, 2) if Trump doesn't win, she's moving to Missouri, and I have to go with her.
I am disabled and cannot make ends meet on my own. Disability simply does not pay enough. I've tried to live on my own before and couldn't do it.
So now, I may be forced to make a decision that could devastate my family and me. I literally cannot live without my family's support, but neither can I join the MAGA cult. I am completely out of options...so terrified.
Great show, really appreciate hearing insights and different perspectives.
The sad thing is that he didnt even represent the red pill ideas at all...andrew tate is fame chaser, and anyway mention the erguments not presonalities of a group...should we judge atheism based on dawkins arguments only? It would be laughable....call rian stone on your show to at least have honest look into red pill...
Thank you for this. I've been the antagonistic kind against some of the "idiocy" presented online. This perspective of "show them humanity" just never clicked in that regard, but now I think I've got a new tactic for engagement without pushing them further into isolation.
Thanks for sharing your story with us!
Excellent discussion.
All the manosphere pills are quite weird, but the black pill take (that dating is mostly about looks, and looks is mostly genetic luck) is clearly true.
The most hilarious thing about the toxic men who had stolen the Red Pill symbol, the Red Pill originated as female hormone replacement therapy, and was put in The Matrix movie as a symbol of accepting your true self, even if that means gender transition. "Red Pill" is a transgender symbol and toxic misogynists are using it. Hilarious.
Right????!
It’s No different from Nazis appropriating the Swastika from East Asian religions
NHILISM for the WIN!!!
we have to break our preconceptions down, break down what we THINK we know, and find out if it is ACTAULY the case.
detangle meanings we have been programmed to have and reconstruct meanings that are true to our principles and reality.
it really sucks feeling dumb.... realizing that we REALLY don't know much at all.
but knowing you know nothing is the start of knowing something, IF we then take the steps to discover truths. too often people simply default to being intentionally ignorant.
i am not saying we all have to know everything about everything.
let's all just:
1) simply admit we don't know something when we don't know something
2) speak truthfully , accurately, and articulate our believes vs factual statements (providing context and source when needed)
3) generate a shared general knowledge across many topics. shared common knowledge allows for discussions of critical and intersectional thinking
4) be curious to find truths, and be a skeptic through out the journey
I know:
1: There are no such things as talking snakes.
2: There was never a magic apple that made people morally aware.
3: People do not walk on water that is deep enough to be submerged in, unless that water happens to be thick ice.
4: People don't live three days inside of a fish underwater.
5: Transmutation is a lie.
It goes on.
And I do know a lot of Molecular Biology because that is what my degree happesn to be in.
I have meaning in my life and it is not the meaning that somebody has to spoon feed to me.
My mind will not be given over to imbeciles who think their superstition somehow trumps reality.
Actually, conversely, that's exactly how cult leaders draw people in, because they're going to tell you that THEY have the answers.
Like Coleman said, to help people deprogram, the best thing you can do is just be their friend or family member, without argument or deprication. I would call this walking the walk, not talking the talk. Though he didn't manage to convert me, my late husband took this attitude toward his faith, and I appreciated his consideration. I think if he had been a member of an evangelical church, I think he would have been successful in being people into the church. He was not pushy or scary. He just lived what he considered to be a Christian life.
Things I love about Seth. He says "et cetera" and NOT "eck cetra"...
Hey Seth and listeners, in the definition for "cult" you have at the opening, Britannica's version contains the words "religious or quasi-religious".
Any care to take a shot at defining the difference between those two adjectives?
If a cult can hang around long enough it eventually becomes a religion.
As a Christian, I truly, even desperately want there to be no God.
It sounds like the pitch tries to capture those who may be starting to question and moving towards/entering their deconversion process, imho. Folks can be especially vulnerable here, especially the heavily indoctrinated, fear of shunning, etc.😢
Great Interview! Going after mindsets and views is what I try to focus and get people to think through, even as I journey through them myself.
Seeing the humanity in these red pill victims really is the right thing to do. The trouble comes when you try to convey that to the victim's victims, they're not going to hear that "coddling" stuff. Some red pill victims have done too much so to their victims it's going to sound like sympathy for the devil. *Although, I don't think the people shouting it down are either kind of victim themselves🤔...?
Stefan Molyneux is the Andrew Tate of Jordan Petersons
Very enjoyable conversation. If Coleman is a typical example of Quaker Universalism it can't be bad at all.
The humour aspect may seem peripheral but I would say that a sense of humour (especially about oneself) is a great protection against the worst aspects of high control groups and possibly a good guide to the character of politicians?
Coleman's channel is awesome and hilarious.
And very informative too. 👍
Who else remembers the time Stephan Molineux got a glowing with high praise comment from himself? He forgot to sign into one of his female sock accounts before writing stuff like: "As an independent young woman, I think you really understand why yadah yadah ya" 😂
When the appeals are always to emotions and instinct while avoiding appeals to the intellect you can condition people to only respond to those appeals.
This topic takes me to the book “Men who hate women” by Laura Bates. She discusses the while red pill stuff in her book.
Talking about Molyneux's grift drift sounds like you could be talking about Russell Brand... or a whole slew of these of these types who rework their shtick to maximumise audience capture, and unfortunately, there seems to be an endless supply of people looking for easy answers willing to go along with people who are good at bullshitting with certainty..
When I cannot watch this podcast on youtube I listen to it on Apple podcasts. This one stopped after “hard targets” 42:17. I thought I had accidentally turned it off but no, it just stops there. Just thought you should know in case there is a bug in your system. Came to finish the episode.
Une conversation très intéressante. J'ai commencé à m'intéresser à la pilule rouge à l'époque où Ayaan Hirsi Ali a déclaré que l'Occident avait été détruit par l'idéologie woke.
Great interview. Hopeful.
Great conversation! ❤
The successful movements always have some truth behind them. Boys are doing worse now in school than ever, the lack of any programs to deal with this is a real problem. All the while you have great concern about getting more women into science and engineering, and money pouring into programs to promote getting girls into STEM. How about just keeping boys from dropping out and graduating, moving on to post secondary education?
Someone should launch a informative campaign with a slogan for teenagers saying "it's smart and cool being a nerd 🤓". Luckily, there will less people bullied too
This one's truth is just that sexism is alive and well. If you do a Google search you find that one study from 2012 get kicked around the various news sites cause it lends itself well to alarmist outrage. But if you go to Google scholar you find that, while true, the men who are less educated are still making more money and the higher education jobs are now being devalued. Education has been cast as not manly, so the men who drop out are actually being incentivised to do so by other men.
The jobs won't be there if manufacturing doesn't come back. Manufacturing won't come back unless there is state funding and forcing it to come back. Manufacturing won't come back as long as their are these idiot "economics" gurus at the wheel preaching libertatiranism and worshipping the "free market" and manufcaturing won't come back as long as we hold these "values." China does not and will not play by our rules. China is a result of libertarianism gone unchecked and so is the globalism. The result is cabals and strategically important resources such as steel being outsourced. It is a drain on talent. It is a drain on technical know how. It is a drain that we keep spiraling downward into. Promoting Medieval thinking and this garbage about libertarianism being good is the problem. We need to urgently ramp up manufacturing. Even "lights out" factories need maintenance workers and technicians who understand the equipment. Steel is absolutely critical in STEM and so is glassware. Materials and material handling systems and workers are needed. There is a drought in skills and the superstitious nonsense and the mealy mouthed preaching of dimwits ARE the problem.
To solve the "poor little dumb dudes" issue we need to quit placating and indulging these "poor little dumb dudes." It is sink or swim and if they can not and refuse to keep up with the girls, then the girls will beat them. That's it.
Yes, I have degrees. One happens to be Machine Tool Technology and I have worked in factories and I have seen the results of non engineering "by gum!" farmers attacking problems with their nonsense, having "drawers" who "drew pictures" instead of engineering. I've seen disasters in the making and I've seen patent infringements. I've seen recklessness on mine sites and I have seen bozos being overpaid and undereducated and unqualififed being given jobs according to being one of these "poor picked on dudes" who were mindless but willing to work for next to nothing. I've seen deadly situations manifest themselves and I've seen the insides of modern day sweat shops.
I will not feel pity for boys who grow up thinking that people are just going to move out of the way for their lack of skills, and lack of education. We've had far too much coddling and promotion of sports over intelligence for decades, and here we are.
Those manufacturing jobs being shipped out were a choice done by stockholders and CEOs. Why? To break unions and "teach us a lesson" and pad their own pockets.
I'm all for revolution if the people are forced into it. Their big g can sort them out when they get to their magical sky place.
Something needs to be done, even if it includes sending fully grown men and middle aged men to college if it is needed to educate them to do the damned job right the first time. People think they should be paid for exploiting others, voting against their own interest, and sitting on their asses watching Fox news and crying like bratty children because of brown people. I'm fed up with the lot of them and their insistence they can fix the problems they caused in the first place.
The entire point of "the right" is to force those boys to drop out so they will be forever locked in a cycle of ditch digging, doing construction work for nothing, and otherwise getting thrown into wars of conquest.
This is why I have such spite and contempt for the whole lot of them. Creating problems where they shouldn't exist in order to enrich themselves and always looking and thinking in a backwards way, and never seeing the possibilities of what could be.
@@darkcircles06men still make more money than women even if they do not have the fancy degrees , many blue collar jobs pay quite a lot and men deserve it for the hard work they do the long hours they work we women have no other option except university education or a minimum wage job I just wish mother hood cooking and cleaning was monitised.
@@darkcircles06 So it your contention, that somehow men not only still out earn but are also the reason why graduation rates have dropped?! Women, through affirmative action and all of the programs to educate and move them up corporately are out earning men...you just need to look at the correct cohort. Many men have always looked down on geeks, it never stopped them before. No it is the way that elementary schools and to some extent high schools are run (primarily by women). There isn't even a question about it at this point, the statistics are in. It is amazing how people will blame men and boys for the problems that female run institutions put in their way (elementary school educators). Modern educated women seem to see it as a zero sum game, for women to win men have to lose, clearly no so, but that's how they see the world, and that is why they have no problem with boys dropping out.
There was a time when I found The New Atheists and watched endless videos. He was one of those new atheists who's videos I watched ' . But then I realized that he was a racist and stropped watching his videos I had not thought of him in years
Christianity was the original Matrix created centuries ago in order to control humanity.
A friend of mine was (maybe still is?) a bit Molyneux follower. A few years ago he sent me a documentary by Molyneux which according to him was the best documentary ever and explained everything about how the world works and so on. So I watched it. And it was quite a suffering, first of all it was quite long, like 2+ (maybe 3) hours. It was something about big oil or something? I mean the documentary itself was well-made and everything but it didn't make the slightest sense to me. A lot of forced connections were made between things that might or might not have happened. Later I learned he was promoting the idea of the "new worlds order", basically saying that there is a small group of people who want nothing but money and power and for hundreds of years they have been secretly steering the world in directions of their liking.
At some point I also checked out Molyneux's website and some of his videos, and he is really going quantitiy over quality. Like making videos of several hours long where he is just repeating the same idea over and over again. He is always citing so many "facts" that is really impossible even to rebunk them unless you are spending most of your life trying to do so.
Wow, when I first became an atheist, Stefan was one of the people I often listened to here on TH-cam. I don't recall why, but I eventually just kind of drifted away from his videos and eventually just stopped watching them. I don't think it was because of any big red flag, or something. I just kind of stopped. I haven't heard his name though in years, until this video here.
The fact that the Wachowski brothers are now trans sisters adds an extra level of satire to this
3:26 my red pill is dialectical materialism! 🤣🤣🤣
I've found the notion of just 2(binary) choices limiting. Red or Blue? What happened to the clear pill? Or for those not ready, the green, yellow or black pill?
Btw, it's not too much of a stretch to see the influence Tibetian Vajrayana philosophy had on the writers of the matrix. You might wanna do some reading on the colours they use with the Tibetian book of the dead.
I have been an Atheist My whole life. Hold Most Conservative values. Some Socially Liberal Values., but Very Fiscally conservative Values. You do not have to check off all boxes to vote one way or another. I don't go to rallies, just like I don't to church. We need to stop this Foot Ball Game mentality, this team or that. I'm A Conservative Atheist. We do Exist.
In other words, you are halfway there to self awareness. Well done. When you discover that "conservatives" conserve absolutely nothing and raid taxation coffers and put the money to exploitive things, and realize that "conservatives" are cutting the social safety nets of others in order to enrich themselves...and when you learn the game of "Monopoly" was meant to be a lesson about living in a libertarian hell, then you quit being fiscally conservative. You will realize that you are just a little fish and you shouldn't be feeding the sharks, because the sharks dine on little fish. This is how that works. I look forward to the day when people claiming to be the font of all wisdom financially....realize that taxes aren't robbing them but they are getting robbed through their mortgages and through the artificial inflation of goods and services. Having one world corporation is "Conservative." Spoiler Alert: The Dutch East India company, the first and largest and most wealthy corporation to ever have existed....put the value of property over lives. It resulted in the slave trade and disasters. It eventually collapsed under its own weight. What happened? Embezzlement, corruption, and "making the rules up" by giving all the employees and leadership of it absolute authority. It was also the most corrupt institutions to ever have existed. Look into the Wreck of the Batavia and the mutiny. You'll see just what a result of that kind of thinking can be. If you are willing to exploit others for weath and security, then what happens is people begin to fight back and have revolts, revolutions, mutinies, or resort to embezzlement, fraud, and a host of other things that will lead to the collapse of the entire system. Systemic exploitation or being "conservative" only ends one way: collapse and revolution. That is what happened during the French Revolution. It has a hay day until it doesn't. It is popular until it explodes.
Its pronounced "Andrew Taint"
👋Thanks, Seth!❤👍
I think that a strong process is needed to avoid falling into these beliefs. It comes down to luck - if you have the right education you have some defences, but anyone can just get caught at the wrong point when your defences are off
@@kxjx “Don’t just teach your children to read… teach them to quistion what they read. Teach them to quistion everything.” George Carlin.
People usually choke on the red pill or try taking the whole bottle.
There's no Wachowski brothers. There's Wachowski sisters.
Odd how you never questioned why he hated women and if/how that's changed... Sounds like, from what he said, he got out of the cult because the bros weren't nice to him, rather than confronting his misogyny.
Bingo.
I would have been happy to discuss that topic. For the record, I'm against all forms of bigotry.
❤ EXCELLENT 👌👍❤
Cults use slivers of truth to convince. I would say most lies have a sliver of truth.
That's funny. I I think I would rather say red bill for being continuing to stay in the matrix.I didn't realize it was the other way around
..that we might miss a true moment of magic ..
I make bad decisions all the time. I know they are bad when I make them. I don't try make them sound good. Like last night I stayed up to 3ish am. When I have to be at work about 7:30 am. I knew it was a bad idea but I want too. I do that all the time. I think this is a bad idea but I want to do it anyway... especially food.
Self sabotage comes from childhood.
There is some great advise in the last four or five minutes.
Plus, Red Pill is not exclusively to conservatives, although conservatives bent to embrace Red Pill as a way to drive women back to the old traditions.