Thais always reminds me to be compassionate towards DAs even though my DA ex blocked me and ended everything without saying a single word. It's hard but if it weren't for that chapter in my life, I wouldn't be here earning my secure attachment.
The #1 biggest red flag for Anxious, Fearful Avoidant, or Dismissive Avoidant that makes them run is communication. Communication scares a lot of people.
What you didn't say but was implied out loud was that if you don't play by their playbook, at their speed, without making one tiny mistake, then you might have a chance with one of them. What you also implied is that a relationship with them is walking on eggshells and that they cannot communicate. They can't say, "hey, I like you, let's slow down a bit." Or if you offend them,,,, imagine never slipping and saying something that might offend them. Or being too dramatic because they are under-dramatic. No thanks. Put them all on an island somewhere. I know,,, we're supposed to sympathize because of their wounds while they wound the rest of us. Sorry, I'm in a bad mood and need to vent.
My last relationship was with an FA or a DA, not sure but she got very physical very fast and it sped up my usual timeline. After the 3rd date, it was clear that we were both very interested in each other and I asked her to be exclusive (why not? do we want to see other other people or focus on each other?). She somewhat reluctantly agreed and really treated me like I was her forever person, she seemed so happy with me, and I got carried away with it. The "I love you" came out around 6 weeks and, while I started to say it, even saying that it was too soon to say it, she blurted it out. And then she started talking about the future and I participated in it, why not? I was loving it- it was amazing. And then around the 3 month point, she said she was feeling overwhelmed and abruptly exited with a lame-ass excuse. The ick was all over her face and her voice literally dropped an octave. I've never moved that fast before but I swear it was her behavior that accelerated things and then she bolts because things were moving too fast. It was all such a mind fvck.
You poor thing! That sounds really hard and confusing. :( I think we have to look back on these types of encounter and don’t dis-count the other persons feelings or feel that it wasn’t true or all just facade. It was every bit as real as you remember but unfortunately so was her overwhelm which caused her in the end to disconnect… UGH so hard tho
Sounds like she was an FA and lovebombed you inadvertently. She con very herself she liked you way too soon and when the honeymoon period was over she realized she didn’t like you at all. I’m sure you’ve been there before too. We need to watch if we’re lovebombing inadvertently. We know we’re inadvertently lovebombing or if someone else is inadvertently lovebombing us (because I don’t believe people intentionally lovebomb) if the other person or ourselves are saying “You’re perfect for me” and “I love you” only a month in. It’s almost impossible to fall in deep true love in less than a month so watch for yourself professing love too soon or someone else professing it too soon. That means we or the other person is infatuated and not truly in deep romantic love. I’m an FA with strong anxious tendencies and have met many DA men so I know what they say.
Sounds like she was BPD. The hypersexuality, love bombing and things moving real quick is typical of BPD behavior, or to a lesser degree, a narcissist.
Any time a DA runs from me, I consider it a favor. Since I'm working on healing my own attachment to earned security, I'm not really worried about whether insecure attachments are attracted to me, since I have no intention of partnering with them (or subjecting them to my FA tendencies). I'll especially never deal with a DA in a close relationship again, because I hate the way they treat people and don't want to be treated that way anymore. BUT, thanks to this school and its resources, we can all heal our attachment and then partner up together on the other side after we're secure!
YES! Amen to this! It is unfortunate that their personality type is so tantalizingly attractive to the unhealed aspects of my ego, because being in a relationship, situationship, FWB, or just dating a DA is HELL. As you say, they treat people like crap, have no regard for other people's time or lives (all of this never planning ahead and doing everything spontaneously shit), push people away who are genuinely trying to help them in a non-manipulative way, and generally cause chaos, confusion, pain, suffering and sometimes long lasting trauma in the hearts and minds of the people who are trying to love them or be close to them. I hope I continue to heal so that I eventually stop being attracted to these emotionally unavailable types, since all it brings is butterflies and a whole heap of limerance, self doubt and pain
These people are unreal! DAs offer almost nothing in a relationship, especially security, and run away from everything common and intimate. These red flags they also commit. It's almost a joke! I can't take this nonsense anymore. What immature people!
This is hilarious because the dismissive avoidant I was involved with told me that it felt like drama when I brought up my feelings and wanted to ascertain what level of communication I could expect from him. He got really defensive and said I was being controlling
7:20 so true, word for word they said “you don’t know me,” despite also saying how they felt like a stranger to themselves and that I could “see right through them.” there’s so much dissonance in that relationship, it’s as if the carpet of reality was torn up. I began to act out in reaction to their behavior as if to reflect their unconscious.
I found this video highly valuable as it allows me to self-reflect on my mistakes in communication. What I saw as a natural open communication, he most likely took as a trigger and red flags as a DA. Thank you for sharing 🙏🏻
I was dating this girl for a couple months and she was always telling me stories about guys she had sex with or we would run into other guys at events and then later she would tell me she had sex with them. I finally sat her down and asked her if she could please stop telling me about her sexual conquests or people that she had slept with. I told her I didn't really care about her past and don't judge her but that I find her constantly talking about her past sexual experiences disrespectful, as we had decided to be exclusive about a month in. A few days later she broke things off citing this conversation as a "red flag" for her and that she had never dated anyone who had a problem with her being "open" about her sexuality.. It was very abrupt and quite jarring as things had been going really well prior to that. Does this sound like a dismissive avoidant or was I just dating a "Slutty" girl? She also considered herself to be "bi-sexual" and was using cocaine! Despite her issues I really cared about her :( but all things I considered I realized she probably wasn't the best match for me.
Question for the peanut gallery: I’m a dismissive avoidant and have been seeing a woman for about 4 months and we really like each other but some of her behaviors seemed odd. After researching it I am convinced she is fearful avoidant, she checks every box. I need to tell her at some point, but when and how should I go about it? I am trying to act in ways that calm her fears and meet her needs, but I feel like at some point I need to tell her. If it were me, I would want to know.
Literally just as simple as striking up the conversation. Like hey, have you heard about this thing called attachment styles? Briefly explain what it is, maybe send her some links, and ask her which one she thinks she is You don't need to tell her which one you think she has and that you've mentally diagnosed her already Just keep it open like, 'what do you think?' Also please don't hesitate about bringing it up because being educated on attachment styles in the end saves SO much time and miscommunication
I'll be honest I'm still skeptical about the way most of us have internalized these definitions, so I would throw out the labels and focus on the behavioral patterns themselves. Talk about how you are in the most objective way you can and translate those observations into emotional needs. Approach the conversation being open to compromise while being mindful of boundaries on both sides. Think about the boundaries you would never, ever let anyone cross, then come back and think about how you would feel if it was someone else telling you about them
I would avoid bringing it up by labeling her, because being psycho-analyzed with therapeutic labels often feels shaming and condescending. That might be especially difficult to hear when we're still building trust to be vulnerable with someone. Rather, focus on the behavior and express was you observe and what you need. Keep an open mind and withhold judgement in favor of asking questions, so she can explain herself what her experience is. I'm SA/FA and dating a DA. I was unaware of attachment style when I met him. He told me that every 2 months I have a pattern of creating an argument, and that I bring up things that made me feel insecure weeks later. I did have enough awareness of myself to know that everybody has blindspots and needs somebody outside of ourselves to point them out. I actually required the reassurance that I would be heard and seen and was welcome to be more authentic, because I often felt reluctant to address things that bothered me because I was afraid of being ridiculed and rejected. I made it my mission to show more of who I am, and go beyond my fear of vulnerability and rejection! I am now dominantly SA because I have a gracious and patient DA significant other. Intentionally or not, he helped me to grow and feel I was encouraged to be more genuinely me. We don't have those weird deactivation-activation cycles anymore!
First of all, as a FA I would be thrilled if my DA brought this up. Personally it's hard for me to share my feelings for fear it's either going to be misinterpreted or cause him to shut down, so when I'm triggered I essentially go quiet and think about my plan of escape. It's awful because I'm very much in love and so is he. I would just say something along the lines of "Hey, so I noticed (insert issue here) and I'm wondering if everything is okay. Do you want to talk about anything because I think you're amazing and want to make sure you feel safe coming to me with anything." Something like that. If my behavior starts seeming odd it's generally something that shook me and it could be something as simple as a few words. For instance, once my DA sent me this really sweet message saying all kinds of loving and amazing things, but then said like one sentence that bothered me and nothing else he said mattered after that and I shut him out. We just need to be reassured to feel secure sometimes.
I'm an FA and personally, I'd be really happy if my partner, especially a DA partner, made some sort of effort to get to know and understand me. You should bring it up to them. You can start by saying you're learning about yourself, and talk about your struggles and realizations about yourself as a DA. FA's feel connected when you talk about deep things like that. You could then show them the quiz and see if they wanna take it. Or you could just say that you think they might be an FA, and that they should check it out, because its helped you learn so much about yourself. Tell them that if you knew their attachment style, it would really help you connect with them and learn how they think and what they need. We love that stuff. Personally, I would react very well to someone making an effort to know me like that.
This video was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me. I realised that the last DA (I have a string of them in my dating history LOL) I was seeing backed away because of A) my inconsistency (learned this from a previous video) and B) because I didn't accept him. Everything was good for a while. I gave him his space because I also needed mine (I'm FA leaning anxious). But then one day he stood me up completely (just didn't show up for something we had planned, no text, no call, zero, nothing) which caused ME to back off, disengage, put my attention elsewhere etc out of feeling rejected (and also it's just a shitty thing to do to someone with no apology and a giant red flag). But later when we discussed it, he said that he felt like he couldn't be himself around me, and by 'be himself', he meant this very DA way of making plans, always spontaneous, never a day or a few days ahead, etc. AND in this video it finally clicked that it triggered his core wound of feeling not accepted for who he is. Interestingly, I also heard this from my ex boyfriend. He broke up with me for no reason other than the fact that he thought that by being TRULY himself (open relationships, multiple sexual partners, etc), he would hurt me. So it really makes sense! Both of them had the core wound triggered of being not accepted!
When you say that your ex felt that being truly himself would result in you not accepting him, do you mean that he had had open relationships/multiple sexual partners in the past and felt you wouldn’t accept him if you knew? I ask because on reflection, I think I hit a similar wound with a FA ex. And I’m trying to understand it better. He was seemingly more insecure than I realised about the fact that he had spent most of his adult life in open/ non-committed relationships / having casual sex, and after dating me for about 6 months (where, in hindsight, I think he overcompensated with attentiveness and romantic gestures to try and gain my approval because of his insecurity about his past) I made a passing comment about how people never change and ‘your past will always predict your future’. Although this comment didn’t directly relate to his past and I was just making a general statement. In hindsight when I think about it, he slowly checked out after I made this comment, with no explanation. We went from speaking nearly every day and seeing each other nearly every week for 6 months, to not seeing each other for almost 2 months because he was ‘busy’. This triggered my abandonment wound so I spoke to him about it and he became very passive aggressive and he would say things like ‘this is just who I am’ then when I tried to ignite a deeper conversation he gaslighted me and said that we were only ever ‘friends’ so he didn’t understand what my problem was which led me to end things with him. It was one of the most hurtful things I’ve experienced. But I do get a bit of peace now that I understand that this is to do with his core wounds and wasn’t as personal as it felt.
@@Juniperberrie25 no, I don’t mean that he would have felt insecure or not accepted. This guy doesn’t give a f*ck about that kind of thing 😆 plus we were in a community where poly and open relating was very very normal. In his case feeling not accepted was more represented by me being HURT by him. He used more or less the exact words: “I feel that if I am truly myself then I am going to cause you pain and suffering”. And then almost 4 years later another DA said that by him being himself it caused a disruption and chaos. It seems to me that in both these instances, the DA wanted to be loved and accepted for who and how they are. And my pain was a symbol of this non acceptance. I don’t know about your DA checking out after those words! Seems a bit extreme! But who knows, because it seems that a lot of non sensical, over the top reaction kind of things take place in the minds of these people 🤷🏼♀️
@@charlyemmalouise8929 ahh I seee, ok fair enough. That makes sense, I know a lot of avoidants have a fear of letting people down/causing hurt to people because they already carry so much guilt and shame. Interestingly my FA also eluded to, or ‘joked’ about ultimately ending up in a ‘non traditional’ relationship. He never explicitly said poly but I always felt like that’s what he meant. He’d joke about it, I guess as a way of testing the waters. With my FA we’d actually known each other for 10 years before dating and in a very rare moment of vulnerability just before we admitted our feelings for each other and started dating; he told me that throughout our friendship he’d always liked me but felt that I never saw him as boyfriend material (because he’s never had any serious relationships and is constantly in short open relationships and he’s nearly 40) he almost felt that I didn’t think he was (good) enough for me, which is maybe why he was so triggered by my comment, but like who said, who actually knows; the behaviour can be so extreme and confusing and given the lack of vulnerability and transparency it’s hard to truly ever know what’s really going on in their minds; sometimes I don’t think they fully know. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
@@Juniperberrie25 you’re welcome, we are in this together lol. And for SURE they carry a lot of guilt and shame, which is liked with the I am defective core wound. So instances like these (eg wanting to commit to you but also sleep with other people) would trigger that ‘oh, I am hurting her by doing this, therefore I must be defective/broken/wrong and I am therefore ashamed and feel guilty about it, so it’s best to just get out of this relationship’, can be triggered. I think when we ‘joke’ about something, it is usually coming from at least a small element of truth. Otherwise it isn’t funny and also where does it come from?? Something planted that seed, jokes are always connected to reality somehow. So I don’t think it was a joke at all, but his indirect way of testing the waters, as you say! My ex is still one of my best friends and I truly feel his love for me, he goes out of his way to help me and I couldn’t have gotten through the last few years without him, cos I went through so much adversity. And all whilst we were broken up and living on opposite corners of the globe. He is now with someone else. When I have to see it and them physically in person, it tears me apart. It feels unbearable and I completely shut down and avoid. Nothing compares to that pain. But now that I am back in my home country again and not bumping into them in places, it is ok. I listened to a video on avoidant by someone else and they said that if the avoidant moves on and dates someone else and stays with them, then it is only because that woman (sorry I’m adhering to the traditional anxious woman and avoidant man, ofc it can flip) DOESNT NEED SHIT FROM HIM. She doesn’t have to SETTLE for less. She’s genuinely happy with the tiny amount he can give, the open relationship, the nature of things. And this is basically what he said to me about her and also our mutual friends told me. They can spend the whole week apart, watch a movie one night, have sex, sleep in their separate houses and not see each other for a week. But if people like us settle for that. Then by very nature of the fact that we are ‘settling’ for something that is less than we want, we’re gonna be unsatisfied and the partner will pick up on that, whether consciously or not. And it’ll cause shame and inadequacy and feelings of being defective or not accepted. This is how I have come to view a very painful and unique circumstance. When I see my ex in person his eyes and face are so full of love for me. There is no denying or trying to hide that look in the eyes. Just because they are not with us, doesn’t mean that the love isn’t there. Sadly for these kinds of people, love isn’t all you need, they need a tonne of independence and space too. More than any AP/FA or even secure are willing or able to give. I’m not even AP, I am FA. 🤣 but strongly pushed into the anxious side and limerance with a DA
I was initially anxiously attached in my long-term relationship, but felt like a DA while dating after I broke up with him. Men who wanted to be exclusive with me after a couple dates sent me running so fast… I actually related to all of these. I had a guy tell me he loved me on the 4th date and I thought he was psychologically unwell…. Like you don’t even know me yet!! 😂 the pressure of dating was too much. I got back with my long-term bf and life is good again. I think it has to do with being an enneagram 5.
9:32 I disagree with being ok with someone who wants to take 5 months to commit. It doesn’t take that long. If a DA takes that long to commit they’re not interested. DA or not, if someone is interested they won’t take five months
Express needs for equal consideration? I've never seen a DA react well to that lol 😆 They usually gaslight and devalue the other person dehumizing all their needs as wrong and there is no compromise.
But what if the DA is the one being too much too soon, and saying he loves you like really early on in the relationship? My ex already spoke about marriage, living together, saying he loves me etc. And once i moved too close, the dynamic changed and it became a cat and mouse game, where he always has this distance. Esp emotional. Or got really angry when i wanted to just talk about things.
It continues to surprise me how Thais explains DAs triggers as fears while I find these behaviors to cause exaggerated repulsion. I'm not scared of someone getting too close too quick, I am angered by their blatant disrespect of my uninterested cues. Or if someone is needy, my reaction is "Eww" not "I love them but I need space".
I have a fear this is more the reaction they're having, repulsion or the "ick". I've felt it too, but I'm not DA. It's a switch that's hard to unswitch. I feel the same way you do, but also terrified of being perceived the same way when I'm very interested in someone. Disgust is an emotion that signals we might be contaminated, which is why there's an urge to get away. For me, things that I believe are shameful or struggle with shame for that thing in myself (codependency, low confidence, immaturity, lack of awareness, neediness) were taught to me to be abhorrent, even if I have those traits in myself, so another person displaying them triggers very strong disgust. Disgust and anger are contempt. I usually try to date people that feel the same way about those things, but also trigger feelings of insecurity very intensely. It's awful.
@leemeyers5335 I am an FA and I find DAs to be a piece of cake compared to the storm that we are. You're absolutely correct about the "contamination". It is true that the minute I see these behaviors, my first thought is that I don't want to be around someone like that, it is reducing my value. I know it is a hateful thing to say and probably directed towards shame inside myself. It feels like I know their dirty little secret and it is embarrassing, like seeing someone pick their nose 🫣 A whole lot of my life is created around avoiding others feeling that "ick" from me. I don't think it's a bad thing. Those behaviors are abhorrent, personal feelings aside.
@@Mississippian I've been attracted to DAs (speculation, could be secure or not interested), but they never wanted to have a relationship. I've been told I'm too intense or just intense. I get very pissed off if I start to think the other person is "disrespecting" me, leading me on or giving me some kind of runaround because they're just not interested, and I'll cut them off because I think that's the only self respecting thing to do. IDK if I'm FA, I might just be anxious and broken. I really don't know.
@leemeyers5335 See how you show up in non- DA relationships. I'm primarily avoidant, with friends, family, colleagues. Do you shut down? Do you want closeness and but don't have any from ANYONE, not just your romantic relationship? APs appear to be more people pleasing and try to control other people's experiences through themselves. FAs on the other hand are more self- conscious and control themselves to not feel very close to others. Do others feel closer to you but you feel like they offer nothing to you? If nothing else, how do you get along with your primary parent? I would think a Love/hate relationship is reserved for FA mother-child. Also if your mother was FA, it was passed down to you.
@@cm-yu6gu For real! I'm okay with committing on a slower timetable as an anxious avoidant. but it does mean that as I start to fall for someone, it's a very scary time for me. I'm non-monogamous, and I'm 50 years old. what I am coming to understand is that you truly don't start to get to know somebody until about year 9 or 10.
If someone is willing to settle down with someone else (get married or move in together) before they've even been with them a year, the kindest way I could describe them is naive, but more accurately, mentally handicapped... It takes a lot longer than that to fully know someone. But at least divorce lawyers will absolutely love them when their partner decides they don't anymore 🤣
@@Lord_of_Dread You're expecting perfection. You choose to grow with someone. Expecting the perfect match is not based on reality. "High Standards" is a defense mechanism that keeps you from learning to be ok with flawed people {that being everyonr.) But DA hate their own flaws and project that awful feeling onto others.
Question for the DA’s out there. If a DA is interested but not ready to meet up, does that mean give them time and space or not gonna happen and walk away? From prior videos, seems like if they haven’t agreed to meet up for two dates, then it’ll never happen, but yet, seems like they’re slow to open up also. So, which is it?
You can give them time and space but I wouldn't stop communicating. A casual not very planned meeting such as drinks is less intimidating too. However, don't spend much time waiting if you are being clear in your interest and you are getting frustrated. At that point it probably means they aren't that interested or are too DA for a relationship rn
@@coled4039 Appreciate the advice. Totally agree. Everyone has their breaking point and as long as it’s not affecting one’s mental health or preventing one from moving on, then really no harm in keeping the communication open.
{I KNOW THIS IS INCREDIBLY LONG, BUT PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ BECAUSE I'M SO DESPERATE. THAT WOULD BE SO DEEPLY APPRECIATED} I've noticed you and others talk about DA's putting a high value on safety. That word keeps showing up, and it grabs my attention because my DA partner of 15 years (unmarried, but acted the part) was recently outed for emotionally cheating on me with my niece, and one of the things he KEPT saying to me was that he didn't feel safe with me, but felt safe with her ( over a 2 month period, mind you), and couldn't get there with me (19 years of being on each other's lives; 15 of those as a couple). This just came out on May 15th, and I've been having a REALLY difficult time wrapping my mind around how she could captivate him in that little bit of time & make him feel "so safe", yet we'd been together as long as we had, had a strong friendship underneath, and had such a DEEP connection. We always had a challenging relationship; it was more difficult than we'd prefer, but they were manageable, and for some of those issues, he truly did do the work to change, as I did the ones he hated the most. He just always saw me as abrasive, but never could "coach me" or even tell me what I was doing that caused his strong reactions, and I'd BEG him to tell me WHEN I'd start doing it, to stop me in my tracks if he couldn't remember. I TRULY would've been grateful for that. He never did it, even once. He'd just hold it against me silently. The big downfall had been ocurring a few months prior to the fight that caused him to leave & stay in a house right next door to her, inevitably starting this mental fling. This was in March, and this was a span of only 8 days. In the second day, he asked if he could kiss her. Then, it got progressively worse, and she entertained it to keep him going because she had recently been abandoned by her husband of 2 years just 1 month before their fling. That was the reason he thought he could talk to her & she'd understand. We had been disconnected & he was convinced I had been secretly talking to a guy from my past that got a bit obsessive. Apparently, my niece said something that "confirmed" this belief. He claims this LIE is the catalyst that caused him to even be able to go there with her at all. She was flirtatious. She puts high stock in being wanted by the opposite sex, and she probably felt down on herself, so she took advantage of the fact that he found her attractive & they were getting closer. I understand the mentality behind all that. What I CANNOT fathom is how just a few days could stand up against 19 years in total, regardless of how he felt towards me or what he was convinced I had done. He never had issues being faithful to me before. Is him feeling emotionally unsafe with me & safe with her really THAT powerful to him, that he'd disregard 19 years with me just for the possibility of something with her, who he'd only intimately known for a week, or is that just an excuse?!?! I remember how infatuated he got with me in the beginning. His pursuit was strong, and I keep finding out that he was saying & doing things almost identically with her to how he did with me. Right now, he's claiming that he was so wounded then, and he got so wrapped up in her giving him "safety", that he simply wasn't thinking logically; only acting on emotions, and he describes that whole 2 months (the 8 days was just the height of his sexual pursuit, but he moved onto seeking an actual relationship from when he came back to me on that 9th day in March, all the way up until May 15th, and he started developing feelings during that time) as "living on autopilot, and not even being aware of reality until we ended & it snapped him out of it". Am I being taken for a fool, or could there be actual truth to this? I DEFINITELY recognize that he was infatuated. How can that occur when you're with someone & truly love them? Speaking on love, he finally admitted that he "fell out of love with me" after the fight that made him leave for those 8 days. I do know this: The man that left was absolutely NOT the man who came back. He was so visibly broken & uncomfortable, he just looked miserable all the time, and the more I'd try to talk about it, the more he'd start squirming in his seat & his face would completely change, color, even. The big thing was a "ball of tightness in his chest," and he said he could FEEL a "mass of anxiety" move around in different parts of his chest & stomach. I asked him if he thought that was attributed to guilt, but he says he doesn't think so. He thinks it was because his body was telling him to run, but he was forcing himself to stay with me so he could say that he tried. I can't get him to see that he couldn't possibly have tried when his mind was constantly on her & their potential life together those last 2 months he was with me. There's a text he sent her that actually says this: "We're meeting up tomorrow to talk. I want to sleep next to you tonight so my heart can feel happy for one last time because it's quite possible this will be the last time for a long while." He goes on to tell her that she "drives him wild inside", yet named his age as a reason for not being as sexual with me as we always were. I believed him until I saw this! I'm aware that most people wouldn't even give him the chance of an explanation after reading that (it gets much more graphic, too... he was basically giving her one last chance to be with him & pulling out all the stops before he made the choice to go back to me, his second option, apparently). I guess the reason why I am still giving him the time of day is because this is NOT who he is. I've known this man LITERALLY half my life. I gave myself so wholly & completely to him, and for all his DA flaws, he was still very sweet, kind, and overall good to me. He truly was my best friend before we were lovers, and you can see that I mean a great deal to him, it's just not the level of depth that I feel for him, apparently. To describe us/ our relationship dynamic: My WORDS were harsh, but my ACTIONS proved my loyalty, devotion, and TRULY unconditional love for him; his WORDS were kind & loving, but his ACTIONS contradicted those sweet words. Not all of them. He definitely showed love by acts of service & cared deeply about providing me with the basic necessities, even though I'm capable of working & getting my own food, etc. He just never seemed to care to understand/attend to my emotional needs, and would seemingly put his, his son's & his mom's emotional needs above mine. The more I learn about these types of people, the more I want to give him another chance because I know it wasn't easy being with me, either (Anxious w/ fearful tendencies, if that's a thing; plus, I'm an introvert, he's an extrovert & I know that had to be hard for him to not constantly have one foot out the door... which is one of the big changes he made for me years ago). IF ANYONE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE GOT TO THE END OF THIS LONG-WINDED TALE, PLEASE HELP ME MAKE SENSE OF THIS, AND IF I'M JUST BEING A STUPID GIRL, BY ALL MEANS, TELL ME! JUST PLEASE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE FACT THAT HE HAS NEVER BEEN UNFAITHFUL BEFORE, AND OVERALL WAS REALLY GOOD TO ME. ALSO, WE NEVER MARRIED BECAUSE I NEVER PUSHED FOR IT. WE ACTED/ FELT LIKE WE WERE ANYWAY. JUST IN THE LAST FEW YEARS HAS IT EVEN BEEN AN INTEREST OF MINE, AND MOSTLY BECAUSE I WANTED TO SEE IF HE WOULD MAKE THAT COMMITMENT; HIS MOM'S 4 MARRIAGES + THE FACT THAT HE'S A DA + A SAGITTARIUS ALL SEEM TO PLAY A ROLE IN HIM HAVING ISSUES TAKING THAT STEP. WE HAVE NO HUMAN CHILDREN TOGETHER, LUCKILY, BUT HE DOES HAVE A SON FROM A PREVIOUS RELATIONSHIP (ALSO UNMARRIED). IF ANY OF THIS MATTERS, I'M 38; HE'S 46, BUT MENTALLY IN HIS 30'S.
I don’t understand it. I mean I do completely make sense of all your saying it’s very logical but I’ve also seen some DA saying « discreetly/indirectly via social media » that they love you, and this very very fast (10 days/ 2 weeks) but even for me (a AA I felt that it was too soon considering the number of interactions we had) and then starting to be like oh I have you I distance myself where it feels confortable. Like going at the same time more strongly about feelings while in the same going more distant (which again that makes sense too). What I don’t understand is how they can have this red flag around early « ily » while doing it themselves very fast + pulling away physically while still maintaining a lot of distant interactions (phone msg, emails) ?
They very often act too fast in the first few weeks or months and then pull away, or even blindside dump you after a few months. Im not sure why Thais doesnt address this as this is a very common thing DAs do
@@sunbeam9222 do you ever check with the other person if going super slow is okay with them and do you ever explain the reason why? If I was told what you just wrote here it sure would be helpful as opposed to sudden shutdown
Thais always reminds me to be compassionate towards DAs even though my DA ex blocked me and ended everything without saying a single word. It's hard but if it weren't for that chapter in my life, I wouldn't be here earning my secure attachment.
True
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Basically, don't judge the DA and move at the speed they're comfortable with, otherwise they will get triggered and leave u abruptly.
The #1 biggest red flag for Anxious, Fearful Avoidant, or Dismissive Avoidant that makes them run is communication. Communication scares a lot of people.
What you didn't say but was implied out loud was that if you don't play by their playbook, at their speed, without making one tiny mistake, then you might have a chance with one of them. What you also implied is that a relationship with them is walking on eggshells and that they cannot communicate. They can't say, "hey, I like you, let's slow down a bit." Or if you offend them,,,, imagine never slipping and saying something that might offend them. Or being too dramatic because they are under-dramatic. No thanks. Put them all on an island somewhere. I know,,, we're supposed to sympathize because of their wounds while they wound the rest of us. Sorry, I'm in a bad mood and need to vent.
My last relationship was with an FA or a DA, not sure but she got very physical very fast and it sped up my usual timeline. After the 3rd date, it was clear that we were both very interested in each other and I asked her to be exclusive (why not? do we want to see other other people or focus on each other?). She somewhat reluctantly agreed and really treated me like I was her forever person, she seemed so happy with me, and I got carried away with it. The "I love you" came out around 6 weeks and, while I started to say it, even saying that it was too soon to say it, she blurted it out. And then she started talking about the future and I participated in it, why not? I was loving it- it was amazing. And then around the 3 month point, she said she was feeling overwhelmed and abruptly exited with a lame-ass excuse. The ick was all over her face and her voice literally dropped an octave. I've never moved that fast before but I swear it was her behavior that accelerated things and then she bolts because things were moving too fast. It was all such a mind fvck.
You poor thing! That sounds really hard and confusing. :( I think we have to look back on these types of encounter and don’t dis-count the other persons feelings or feel that it wasn’t true or all just facade. It was every bit as real as you remember but unfortunately so was her overwhelm which caused her in the end to disconnect… UGH so hard tho
FA. A DA would’ve been dragging along behind your lead all along. The sudden and very sharp deactivation is FA.
Sounds like she was an FA and lovebombed you inadvertently. She con very herself she liked you way too soon and when the honeymoon period was over she realized she didn’t like you at all. I’m sure you’ve been there before too. We need to watch if we’re lovebombing inadvertently. We know we’re inadvertently lovebombing or if someone else is inadvertently lovebombing us (because I don’t believe people intentionally lovebomb) if the other person or ourselves are saying “You’re perfect for me” and “I love you” only a month in. It’s almost impossible to fall in deep true love in less than a month so watch for yourself professing love too soon or someone else professing it too soon. That means we or the other person is infatuated and not truly in deep romantic love. I’m an FA with strong anxious tendencies and have met many DA men so I know what they say.
Sounds like she was BPD. The hypersexuality, love bombing and things moving real quick is typical of BPD behavior, or to a lesser degree, a narcissist.
Any time a DA runs from me, I consider it a favor. Since I'm working on healing my own attachment to earned security, I'm not really worried about whether insecure attachments are attracted to me, since I have no intention of partnering with them (or subjecting them to my FA tendencies). I'll especially never deal with a DA in a close relationship again, because I hate the way they treat people and don't want to be treated that way anymore. BUT, thanks to this school and its resources, we can all heal our attachment and then partner up together on the other side after we're secure!
Every comment I read from you always uplifts me! Thank you so much!!
FAs are not so clean either. Your signs often are confusing and look like games of power.
YES! Amen to this! It is unfortunate that their personality type is so tantalizingly attractive to the unhealed aspects of my ego, because being in a relationship, situationship, FWB, or just dating a DA is HELL. As you say, they treat people like crap, have no regard for other people's time or lives (all of this never planning ahead and doing everything spontaneously shit), push people away who are genuinely trying to help them in a non-manipulative way, and generally cause chaos, confusion, pain, suffering and sometimes long lasting trauma in the hearts and minds of the people who are trying to love them or be close to them. I hope I continue to heal so that I eventually stop being attracted to these emotionally unavailable types, since all it brings is butterflies and a whole heap of limerance, self doubt and pain
These people are unreal! DAs offer almost nothing in a relationship, especially security, and run away from everything common and intimate. These red flags they also commit. It's almost a joke! I can't take this nonsense anymore. What immature people!
@@sushisam3010 as if leeching off people, intruding and demanding other’s attention like overgrown children isn’t childish? You people are unreal
This is hilarious because the dismissive avoidant I was involved with told me that it felt like drama when I brought up my feelings and wanted to ascertain what level of communication I could expect from him. He got really defensive and said I was being controlling
7:20 so true, word for word they said “you don’t know me,” despite also saying how they felt like a stranger to themselves and that I could “see right through them.”
there’s so much dissonance in that relationship, it’s as if the carpet of reality was torn up. I began to act out in reaction to their behavior as if to reflect their unconscious.
I found this video highly valuable as it allows me to self-reflect on my mistakes in communication. What I saw as a natural open communication, he most likely took as a trigger and red flags as a DA. Thank you for sharing 🙏🏻
I was dating this girl for a couple months and she was always telling me stories about guys she had sex with or we would run into other guys at events and then later she would tell me she had sex with them. I finally sat her down and asked her if she could please stop telling me about her sexual conquests or people that she had slept with. I told her I didn't really care about her past and don't judge her but that I find her constantly talking about her past sexual experiences disrespectful, as we had decided to be exclusive about a month in. A few days later she broke things off citing this conversation as a "red flag" for her and that she had never dated anyone who had a problem with her being "open" about her sexuality.. It was very abrupt and quite jarring as things had been going really well prior to that. Does this sound like a dismissive avoidant or was I just dating a "Slutty" girl? She also considered herself to be "bi-sexual" and was using cocaine! Despite her issues I really cared about her :( but all things I considered I realized she probably wasn't the best match for me.
DA's usually have addictions. In this case, maybe it was a sex addiction.
Simp... she was a whoaahh
Question for the peanut gallery: I’m a dismissive avoidant and have been seeing a woman for about 4 months and we really like each other but some of her behaviors seemed odd. After researching it I am convinced she is fearful avoidant, she checks every box. I need to tell her at some point, but when and how should I go about it? I am trying to act in ways that calm her fears and meet her needs, but I feel like at some point I need to tell her. If it were me, I would want to know.
Literally just as simple as striking up the conversation. Like hey, have you heard about this thing called attachment styles? Briefly explain what it is, maybe send her some links, and ask her which one she thinks she is
You don't need to tell her which one you think she has and that you've mentally diagnosed her already
Just keep it open like, 'what do you think?'
Also please don't hesitate about bringing it up because being educated on attachment styles in the end saves SO much time and miscommunication
I'll be honest I'm still skeptical about the way most of us have internalized these definitions, so I would throw out the labels and focus on the behavioral patterns themselves. Talk about how you are in the most objective way you can and translate those observations into emotional needs. Approach the conversation being open to compromise while being mindful of boundaries on both sides. Think about the boundaries you would never, ever let anyone cross, then come back and think about how you would feel if it was someone else telling you about them
I would avoid bringing it up by labeling her, because being psycho-analyzed with therapeutic labels often feels shaming and condescending. That might be especially difficult to hear when we're still building trust to be vulnerable with someone. Rather, focus on the behavior and express was you observe and what you need. Keep an open mind and withhold judgement in favor of asking questions, so she can explain herself what her experience is.
I'm SA/FA and dating a DA. I was unaware of attachment style when I met him. He told me that every 2 months I have a pattern of creating an argument, and that I bring up things that made me feel insecure weeks later.
I did have enough awareness of myself to know that everybody has blindspots and needs somebody outside of ourselves to point them out. I actually required the reassurance that I would be heard and seen and was welcome to be more authentic, because I often felt reluctant to address things that bothered me because I was afraid of being ridiculed and rejected. I made it my mission to show more of who I am, and go beyond my fear of vulnerability and rejection!
I am now dominantly SA because I have a gracious and patient DA significant other. Intentionally or not, he helped me to grow and feel I was encouraged to be more genuinely me. We don't have those weird deactivation-activation cycles anymore!
First of all, as a FA I would be thrilled if my DA brought this up. Personally it's hard for me to share my feelings for fear it's either going to be misinterpreted or cause him to shut down, so when I'm triggered I essentially go quiet and think about my plan of escape. It's awful because I'm very much in love and so is he. I would just say something along the lines of "Hey, so I noticed (insert issue here) and I'm wondering if everything is okay. Do you want to talk about anything because I think you're amazing and want to make sure you feel safe coming to me with anything." Something like that. If my behavior starts seeming odd it's generally something that shook me and it could be something as simple as a few words. For instance, once my DA sent me this really sweet message saying all kinds of loving and amazing things, but then said like one sentence that bothered me and nothing else he said mattered after that and I shut him out. We just need to be reassured to feel secure sometimes.
I'm an FA and personally, I'd be really happy if my partner, especially a DA partner, made some sort of effort to get to know and understand me. You should bring it up to them. You can start by saying you're learning about yourself, and talk about your struggles and realizations about yourself as a DA. FA's feel connected when you talk about deep things like that. You could then show them the quiz and see if they wanna take it. Or you could just say that you think they might be an FA, and that they should check it out, because its helped you learn so much about yourself. Tell them that if you knew their attachment style, it would really help you connect with them and learn how they think and what they need. We love that stuff. Personally, I would react very well to someone making an effort to know me like that.
This video was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me. I realised that the last DA (I have a string of them in my dating history LOL) I was seeing backed away because of A) my inconsistency (learned this from a previous video) and B) because I didn't accept him. Everything was good for a while. I gave him his space because I also needed mine (I'm FA leaning anxious). But then one day he stood me up completely (just didn't show up for something we had planned, no text, no call, zero, nothing) which caused ME to back off, disengage, put my attention elsewhere etc out of feeling rejected (and also it's just a shitty thing to do to someone with no apology and a giant red flag). But later when we discussed it, he said that he felt like he couldn't be himself around me, and by 'be himself', he meant this very DA way of making plans, always spontaneous, never a day or a few days ahead, etc. AND in this video it finally clicked that it triggered his core wound of feeling not accepted for who he is. Interestingly, I also heard this from my ex boyfriend. He broke up with me for no reason other than the fact that he thought that by being TRULY himself (open relationships, multiple sexual partners, etc), he would hurt me. So it really makes sense! Both of them had the core wound triggered of being not accepted!
Why do you even bother with these ppl? Good riddance
When you say that your ex felt that being truly himself would result in you not accepting him, do you mean that he had had open relationships/multiple sexual partners in the past and felt you wouldn’t accept him if you knew?
I ask because on reflection, I think I hit a similar wound with a FA ex. And I’m trying to understand it better. He was seemingly more insecure than I realised about the fact that he had spent most of his adult life in open/ non-committed relationships / having casual sex, and after dating me for about 6 months (where, in hindsight, I think he overcompensated with attentiveness and romantic gestures to try and gain my approval because of his insecurity about his past) I made a passing comment about how people never change and ‘your past will always predict your future’. Although this comment didn’t directly relate to his past and I was just making a general statement. In hindsight when I think about it, he slowly checked out after I made this comment, with no explanation. We went from speaking nearly every day and seeing each other nearly every week for 6 months, to not seeing each other for almost 2 months because he was ‘busy’. This triggered my abandonment wound so I spoke to him about it and he became very passive aggressive and he would say things like ‘this is just who I am’ then when I tried to ignite a deeper conversation he gaslighted me and said that we were only ever ‘friends’ so he didn’t understand what my problem was which led me to end things with him. It was one of the most hurtful things I’ve experienced. But I do get a bit of peace now that I understand that this is to do with his core wounds and wasn’t as personal as it felt.
@@Juniperberrie25 no, I don’t mean that he would have felt insecure or not accepted. This guy doesn’t give a f*ck about that kind of thing 😆 plus we were in a community where poly and open relating was very very normal. In his case feeling not accepted was more represented by me being HURT by him. He used more or less the exact words: “I feel that if I am truly myself then I am going to cause you pain and suffering”.
And then almost 4 years later another DA said that by him being himself it caused a disruption and chaos.
It seems to me that in both these instances, the DA wanted to be loved and accepted for who and how they are. And my pain was a symbol of this non acceptance.
I don’t know about your DA checking out after those words! Seems a bit extreme! But who knows, because it seems that a lot of non sensical, over the top reaction kind of things take place in the minds of these people 🤷🏼♀️
@@charlyemmalouise8929 ahh I seee, ok fair enough. That makes sense, I know a lot of avoidants have a fear of letting people down/causing hurt to people because they already carry so much guilt and shame.
Interestingly my FA also eluded to, or ‘joked’ about ultimately ending up in a ‘non traditional’ relationship. He never explicitly said poly but I always felt like that’s what he meant. He’d joke about it, I guess as a way of testing the waters.
With my FA we’d actually known each other for 10 years before dating and in a very rare moment of vulnerability just before we admitted our feelings for each other and started dating; he told me that throughout our friendship he’d always liked me but felt that I never saw him as boyfriend material (because he’s never had any serious relationships and is constantly in short open relationships and he’s nearly 40) he almost felt that I didn’t think he was (good) enough for me, which is maybe why he was so triggered by my comment, but like who said, who actually knows; the behaviour can be so extreme and confusing and given the lack of vulnerability and transparency it’s hard to truly ever know what’s really going on in their minds; sometimes I don’t think they fully know. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
@@Juniperberrie25 you’re welcome, we are in this together lol. And for SURE they carry a lot of guilt and shame, which is liked with the I am defective core wound. So instances like these (eg wanting to commit to you but also sleep with other people) would trigger that ‘oh, I am hurting her by doing this, therefore I must be defective/broken/wrong and I am therefore ashamed and feel guilty about it, so it’s best to just get out of this relationship’, can be triggered.
I think when we ‘joke’ about something, it is usually coming from at least a small element of truth. Otherwise it isn’t funny and also where does it come from?? Something planted that seed, jokes are always connected to reality somehow. So I don’t think it was a joke at all, but his indirect way of testing the waters, as you say!
My ex is still one of my best friends and I truly feel his love for me, he goes out of his way to help me and I couldn’t have gotten through the last few years without him, cos I went through so much adversity. And all whilst we were broken up and living on opposite corners of the globe. He is now with someone else. When I have to see it and them physically in person, it tears me apart. It feels unbearable and I completely shut down and avoid. Nothing compares to that pain. But now that I am back in my home country again and not bumping into them in places, it is ok.
I listened to a video on avoidant by someone else and they said that if the avoidant moves on and dates someone else and stays with them, then it is only because that woman (sorry I’m adhering to the traditional anxious woman and avoidant man, ofc it can flip) DOESNT NEED SHIT FROM HIM. She doesn’t have to SETTLE for less. She’s genuinely happy with the tiny amount he can give, the open relationship, the nature of things. And this is basically what he said to me about her and also our mutual friends told me. They can spend the whole week apart, watch a movie one night, have sex, sleep in their separate houses and not see each other for a week.
But if people like us settle for that. Then by very nature of the fact that we are ‘settling’ for something that is less than we want, we’re gonna be unsatisfied and the partner will pick up on that, whether consciously or not. And it’ll cause shame and inadequacy and feelings of being defective or not accepted.
This is how I have come to view a very painful and unique circumstance. When I see my ex in person his eyes and face are so full of love for me. There is no denying or trying to hide that look in the eyes. Just because they are not with us, doesn’t mean that the love isn’t there. Sadly for these kinds of people, love isn’t all you need, they need a tonne of independence and space too. More than any AP/FA or even secure are willing or able to give. I’m not even AP, I am FA. 🤣 but strongly pushed into the anxious side and limerance with a DA
I was initially anxiously attached in my long-term relationship, but felt like a DA while dating after I broke up with him. Men who wanted to be exclusive with me after a couple dates sent me running so fast… I actually related to all of these. I had a guy tell me he loved me on the 4th date and I thought he was psychologically unwell…. Like you don’t even know me yet!! 😂 the pressure of dating was too much. I got back with my long-term bf and life is good again. I think it has to do with being an enneagram 5.
Yes, she needs to do videos or a course on attachment & Enneagram. I’m a DA 5.
Anxious attachment is very often the other side of the same coin as DA; especially if you date another DA
Sounds more like fa than ap
If someone triggers you your AP side will appear. You might just be closed off to a relationship right now
Thais, can you do a video or course in the school, or a webinar on attachment style & the enneagram?
I’d love to see this! I’m convinced most FAs are 6w7s
Again, thank you for this series of what makes FAs and DAs run.
'Rekindle the spark with a DA/FA', was also fantastic.
I’m not a DA but I relate to most of those when it comes to new relationships 😂 (I’m FA/AP).
9:32 I disagree with being ok with someone who wants to take 5 months to commit. It doesn’t take that long. If a DA takes that long to commit they’re not interested. DA or not, if someone is interested they won’t take five months
Especially love the what you can do section
Express needs for equal consideration? I've never seen a DA react well to that lol 😆 They usually gaslight and devalue the other person dehumizing all their needs as wrong and there is no compromise.
Thank you so much for sharing thus valuable information.
You're welcome :)
Thais was soo accurate when she spoke about DAs infatuating with TV characters!!
But what if the DA is the one being too much too soon, and saying he loves you like really early on in the relationship? My ex already spoke about marriage, living together, saying he loves me etc. And once i moved too close, the dynamic changed and it became a cat and mouse game, where he always has this distance. Esp emotional. Or got really angry when i wanted to just talk about things.
It continues to surprise me how Thais explains DAs triggers as fears while I find these behaviors to cause exaggerated repulsion. I'm not scared of someone getting too close too quick, I am angered by their blatant disrespect of my uninterested cues. Or if someone is needy, my reaction is "Eww" not "I love them but I need space".
I have a fear this is more the reaction they're having, repulsion or the "ick". I've felt it too, but I'm not DA. It's a switch that's hard to unswitch. I feel the same way you do, but also terrified of being perceived the same way when I'm very interested in someone. Disgust is an emotion that signals we might be contaminated, which is why there's an urge to get away. For me, things that I believe are shameful or struggle with shame for that thing in myself (codependency, low confidence, immaturity, lack of awareness, neediness) were taught to me to be abhorrent, even if I have those traits in myself, so another person displaying them triggers very strong disgust. Disgust and anger are contempt. I usually try to date people that feel the same way about those things, but also trigger feelings of insecurity very intensely. It's awful.
Your comment sounds very FA
@leemeyers5335 I am an FA and I find DAs to be a piece of cake compared to the storm that we are. You're absolutely correct about the "contamination". It is true that the minute I see these behaviors, my first thought is that I don't want to be around someone like that, it is reducing my value. I know it is a hateful thing to say and probably directed towards shame inside myself. It feels like I know their dirty little secret and it is embarrassing, like seeing someone pick their nose 🫣 A whole lot of my life is created around avoiding others feeling that "ick" from me. I don't think it's a bad thing. Those behaviors are abhorrent, personal feelings aside.
@@Mississippian I've been attracted to DAs (speculation, could be secure or not interested), but they never wanted to have a relationship. I've been told I'm too intense or just intense. I get very pissed off if I start to think the other person is "disrespecting" me, leading me on or giving me some kind of runaround because they're just not interested, and I'll cut them off because I think that's the only self respecting thing to do. IDK if I'm FA, I might just be anxious and broken. I really don't know.
@leemeyers5335 See how you show up in non- DA relationships. I'm primarily avoidant, with friends, family, colleagues. Do you shut down? Do you want closeness and but don't have any from ANYONE, not just your romantic relationship? APs appear to be more people pleasing and try to control other people's experiences through themselves. FAs on the other hand are more self- conscious and control themselves to not feel very close to others. Do others feel closer to you but you feel like they offer nothing to you? If nothing else, how do you get along with your primary parent? I would think a Love/hate relationship is reserved for FA mother-child. Also if your mother was FA, it was passed down to you.
Love this!!!!!
❤
I spent most of my day observing my dog chasing its tail, round & round we go.
2-4 months??? 😂😂😂 I never knew!
That's the amount of time I need to decide if I want to commit to you as even just a friend lol
@@cm-yu6gu For real! I'm okay with committing on a slower timetable as an anxious avoidant. but it does mean that as I start to fall for someone, it's a very scary time for me. I'm non-monogamous, and I'm 50 years old. what I am coming to understand is that you truly don't start to get to know somebody until about year 9 or 10.
As an FA, I felt this at the 5th or 6th month
If someone is willing to settle down with someone else (get married or move in together) before they've even been with them a year, the kindest way I could describe them is naive, but more accurately, mentally handicapped... It takes a lot longer than that to fully know someone. But at least divorce lawyers will absolutely love them when their partner decides they don't anymore 🤣
@@Lord_of_Dread You're expecting perfection. You choose to grow with someone. Expecting the perfect match is not based on reality. "High Standards" is a defense mechanism that keeps you from learning to be ok with flawed people {that being everyonr.) But DA hate their own flaws and project that awful feeling onto others.
Yup, I told my DA ex I love her and she dumped me 1 week later.
9:15, 9:52
My DA infatuates with thirst traps on Tiktok. 🥴 #blessed
Question for the DA’s out there. If a DA is interested but not ready to meet up, does that mean give them time and space or not gonna happen and walk away? From prior videos, seems like if they haven’t agreed to meet up for two dates, then it’ll never happen, but yet, seems like they’re slow to open up also. So, which is it?
You can give them time and space but I wouldn't stop communicating. A casual not very planned meeting such as drinks is less intimidating too. However, don't spend much time waiting if you are being clear in your interest and you are getting frustrated. At that point it probably means they aren't that interested or are too DA for a relationship rn
@@coled4039 Appreciate the advice. Totally agree. Everyone has their breaking point and as long as it’s not affecting one’s mental health or preventing one from moving on, then really no harm in keeping the communication open.
Perfect . You don’t want a DA , so do all of these things if you want a happy life free of regret.
Lol
This is exactly what I said to myself.
They're are mostly looking for someone to accept their dysfunctional way of doing relationships.
{I KNOW THIS IS INCREDIBLY LONG, BUT PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ BECAUSE I'M SO DESPERATE. THAT WOULD BE SO DEEPLY APPRECIATED}
I've noticed you and others talk about DA's putting a high value on safety. That word keeps showing up, and it grabs my attention because my DA partner of 15 years (unmarried, but acted the part) was recently outed for emotionally cheating on me with my niece, and one of the things he KEPT saying to me was that he didn't feel safe with me, but felt safe with her ( over a 2 month period, mind you), and couldn't get there with me (19 years of being on each other's lives; 15 of those as a couple). This just came out on May 15th, and I've been having a REALLY difficult time wrapping my mind around how she could captivate him in that little bit of time & make him feel "so safe", yet we'd been together as long as we had, had a strong friendship underneath, and had such a DEEP connection. We always had a challenging relationship; it was more difficult than we'd prefer, but they were manageable, and for some of those issues, he truly did do the work to change, as I did the ones he hated the most. He just always saw me as abrasive, but never could "coach me" or even tell me what I was doing that caused his strong reactions, and I'd BEG him to tell me WHEN I'd start doing it, to stop me in my tracks if he couldn't remember. I TRULY would've been grateful for that. He never did it, even once. He'd just hold it against me silently.
The big downfall had been ocurring a few months prior to the fight that caused him to leave & stay in a house right next door to her, inevitably starting this mental fling. This was in March, and this was a span of only 8 days. In the second day, he asked if he could kiss her. Then, it got progressively worse, and she entertained it to keep him going because she had recently been abandoned by her husband of 2 years just 1 month before their fling. That was the reason he thought he could talk to her & she'd understand. We had been disconnected & he was convinced I had been secretly talking to a guy from my past that got a bit obsessive. Apparently, my niece said something that "confirmed" this belief. He claims this LIE is the catalyst that caused him to even be able to go there with her at all. She was flirtatious. She puts high stock in being wanted by the opposite sex, and she probably felt down on herself, so she took advantage of the fact that he found her attractive & they were getting closer. I understand the mentality behind all that. What I CANNOT fathom is how just a few days could stand up against 19 years in total, regardless of how he felt towards me or what he was convinced I had done. He never had issues being faithful to me before. Is him feeling emotionally unsafe with me & safe with her really THAT powerful to him, that he'd disregard 19 years with me just for the possibility of something with her, who he'd only intimately known for a week, or is that just an excuse?!?! I remember how infatuated he got with me in the beginning. His pursuit was strong, and I keep finding out that he was saying & doing things almost identically with her to how he did with me. Right now, he's claiming that he was so wounded then, and he got so wrapped up in her giving him "safety", that he simply wasn't thinking logically; only acting on emotions, and he describes that whole 2 months (the 8 days was just the height of his sexual pursuit, but he moved onto seeking an actual relationship from when he came back to me on that 9th day in March, all the way up until May 15th, and he started developing feelings during that time) as "living on autopilot, and not even being aware of reality until we ended & it snapped him out of it". Am I being taken for a fool, or could there be actual truth to this? I DEFINITELY recognize that he was infatuated. How can that occur when you're with someone & truly love them? Speaking on love, he finally admitted that he "fell out of love with me" after the fight that made him leave for those 8 days. I do know this: The man that left was absolutely NOT the man who came back. He was so visibly broken & uncomfortable, he just looked miserable all the time, and the more I'd try to talk about it, the more he'd start squirming in his seat & his face would completely change, color, even. The big thing was a "ball of tightness in his chest," and he said he could FEEL a "mass of anxiety" move around in different parts of his chest & stomach. I asked him if he thought that was attributed to guilt, but he says he doesn't think so. He thinks it was because his body was telling him to run, but he was forcing himself to stay with me so he could say that he tried. I can't get him to see that he couldn't possibly have tried when his mind was constantly on her & their potential life together those last 2 months he was with me. There's a text he sent her that actually says this: "We're meeting up tomorrow to talk. I want to sleep next to you tonight so my heart can feel happy for one last time because it's quite possible this will be the last time for a long while." He goes on to tell her that she "drives him wild inside", yet named his age as a reason for not being as sexual with me as we always were. I believed him until I saw this! I'm aware that most people wouldn't even give him the chance of an explanation after reading that (it gets much more graphic, too... he was basically giving her one last chance to be with him & pulling out all the stops before he made the choice to go back to me, his second option, apparently). I guess the reason why I am still giving him the time of day is because this is NOT who he is. I've known this man LITERALLY half my life. I gave myself so wholly & completely to him, and for all his DA flaws, he was still very sweet, kind, and overall good to me. He truly was my best friend before we were lovers, and you can see that I mean a great deal to him, it's just not the level of depth that I feel for him, apparently. To describe us/ our relationship dynamic: My WORDS were harsh, but my ACTIONS proved my loyalty, devotion, and TRULY unconditional love for him; his WORDS were kind & loving, but his ACTIONS contradicted those sweet words. Not all of them. He definitely showed love by acts of service & cared deeply about providing me with the basic necessities, even though I'm capable of working & getting my own food, etc. He just never seemed to care to understand/attend to my emotional needs, and would seemingly put his, his son's & his mom's emotional needs above mine.
The more I learn about these types of people, the more I want to give him another chance because I know it wasn't easy being with me, either (Anxious w/ fearful tendencies, if that's a thing; plus, I'm an introvert, he's an extrovert & I know that had to be hard for him to not constantly have one foot out the door... which is one of the big changes he made for me years ago).
IF ANYONE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE GOT TO THE END OF THIS LONG-WINDED TALE, PLEASE HELP ME MAKE SENSE OF THIS, AND IF I'M JUST BEING A STUPID GIRL, BY ALL MEANS, TELL ME! JUST PLEASE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE FACT THAT HE HAS NEVER BEEN UNFAITHFUL BEFORE, AND OVERALL WAS REALLY GOOD TO ME. ALSO, WE NEVER MARRIED BECAUSE I NEVER PUSHED FOR IT. WE ACTED/ FELT LIKE WE WERE ANYWAY. JUST IN THE LAST FEW YEARS HAS IT EVEN BEEN AN INTEREST OF MINE, AND MOSTLY BECAUSE I WANTED TO SEE IF HE WOULD MAKE THAT COMMITMENT; HIS MOM'S 4 MARRIAGES + THE FACT THAT HE'S A DA + A SAGITTARIUS ALL SEEM TO PLAY A ROLE IN HIM HAVING ISSUES TAKING THAT STEP. WE HAVE NO HUMAN CHILDREN TOGETHER, LUCKILY, BUT HE DOES HAVE A SON FROM A PREVIOUS RELATIONSHIP (ALSO UNMARRIED). IF ANY OF THIS MATTERS, I'M 38; HE'S 46, BUT MENTALLY IN HIS 30'S.
I don’t understand it. I mean I do completely make sense of all your saying it’s very logical but I’ve also seen some DA saying « discreetly/indirectly via social media » that they love you, and this very very fast (10 days/ 2 weeks) but even for me (a AA I felt that it was too soon considering the number of interactions we had) and then starting to be like oh I have you I distance myself where it feels confortable. Like going at the same time more strongly about feelings while in the same going more distant (which again that makes sense too). What I don’t understand is how they can have this red flag around early « ily » while doing it themselves very fast + pulling away physically while still maintaining a lot of distant interactions (phone msg, emails) ?
They very often act too fast in the first few weeks or months and then pull away, or even blindside dump you after a few months. Im not sure why Thais doesnt address this as this is a very common thing DAs do
@@sunbeam9222 do you ever check with the other person if going super slow is okay with them and do you ever explain the reason why? If I was told what you just wrote here it sure would be helpful as opposed to sudden shutdown