TBH, the naysayers of open Zelda need to realize that the reason BotW and TotK exist were due to how stale the Zelda formula was getting. Around the time TP and SS came out, most of us were clamoring for Zelda to go back to its roots of being open ended and having a focus again on exploration. The success of BotW and TotK kinda shows that the people are loud about this stuff are just a very vocal minority and Nintendo would be crazy to go backwards instead of keep pushing ahead. I think Echoes of Wisdom also shows Nintendo isn't gonna go back and for me and most others? That's awesome, keep innovating the series so it does get as stale as things were back in 2006 and 2011. Great video as always, your content is awesome
Yeah. And don’t forget that the series was on life support due to low sales. But in the end, we all know the new formula is vastly superior to the old one, while still having room for improvement. It’s just the usual toxic minority and the clickbaiters here on TH-cam… especially so called “zeldatubers”. Sad, really.
Thanks dude! Always appreciate seeing your name in the comment section and reading your kind remarks. And good points all around! The series did feel super stale during the TP and SS eras and needed a reinvention for sure. It's good to see Nintendo continuing to innovate with the series and not being deterred by the detractors.
Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks all shared a similar aesthetic/style. No, this aesthetic will not hang around forever. They're just taking advantage of assets which is fine. It's a cute style.
True, but Phantom Hourglass is a direct sequel to WW, so it makes more sense in that regard. This game and the Link's Awakening Remake are so different that the same art style being used is a little jarring for me. But again, not complaining. I agree with you that it's a cute art style.
I am in the middle. Do I like the direction that BotW and ToTK went, yes and no. I like the freedom, and I like the revamp of traditional Zelda. I did not enjoy traditional dungeons being gone. If you wanted to add some shrines in the mix to mix it up, so be it, but to remove it entirely and to have all weapons degrade was not practical. Things broke way too easily and it was more annoying rather than challenging. Zelda should capture the fun of exploration and should tell a good story. The story got better in Tears, but the storytelling was not so good in BotW. We had such an interesting story in concept, but we explored it thru memories and not gameplay. We also had too much environmental storytelling as a result. There should have been some aspects of the story we actually played thru. You can do this without being fully linear. The argument that they want freedom over being too linear does not work for me. It is not WoW or Everquest, or even Skyrim. Zelda exist in another genre and we do need aone sort of storytelling structure. Sorry, but to me OoT and SS and several other titles never felt too linear as we had some freedom as to the order to do things. More freedom I welcome, but not if it sacrifices us having continuity and a story given. Games have done it before. All we needed was some traditional dungeons in the mix with prompts to visit them in any order. Even as far black as OoT, you can do several of the temples in various orders. A few have to be done before others, but not all. During my first playthru, back in the day, the Fire Temple was my first temple I completed. All due to me having issues finding the hookshot. I did not realize until after the fire temple that I could pull graves back. So, I was never able to get into the Forest Temple until I figured that out. I did know that I needed a hook shot bc I read the diary and figured it was what I needed. We could have had a handful of dungeon items that don't break. I spent too much of my gameplay having to go collect weapons because I was completely out. I don't need it to constantly break to present a challenge. Zelda enemies can be a challenge all their own sometimes. It was unnecessary. We interacted in side quest, and not much actually occurred in the main quest, and while Tears did better at storytelling, it was not as well executed as previous titles. I mean, IMO Zelda and Zelda II on NES had better storytelling. To be fair, it was a product of its time, and we did not get too evolved of a story, but we have come to expect a story with a Zelda title. You can give a massive world if you want. You can add side quests and freedom to do some task if not all in any order. But you still have to tell a story, and I do not want every way to get thru a dungeon to be using creative hacks. Allow some of it to be a mix of traditional puzzles. The shrines were awful. We had way too many, to a point it was tedious. It was a lot of the same theme and too much of the same old stuff. It has little replay value for me. It felt so involved between them and Korok seeds that if I play, I play on my original save file. How can it be better going forward if it lacks replay value? You are not going to look at me and speak with your whole chest and say you have beat BotW or TotK from start to finish several times and would replay again anytime. Of course many of us have played IoT to TP or WW from start to finish dozens of times. I play the oracle games, NES Zeldas, OoT, MM, Twilight Princess all at least once a year from new file to finish. The world was far too empty. We barely got any civilization. Less is more, but a lot of substance was lacking, and it felt like we got a giant sandbox to play in and be distracted while mom and dad were off shopping. In the case of these games, more felt like less due to a lack of story, lack of substance, and a lack of what makes Zelda, Zelda. Add to the formula or mix it up, but some core parts were scrapped, and it felt off. You can change aspects of Zelda and its formula, but the previous two titles were too large of a departure. It also is odd to me and I do not like what it does to the lore to still be ambiguous as to where it fits in the timeline and to give us a non Hylian incarnation of Hylia that is not named Zelda. A point I do not see enough people talking about. She literally teaches Zelda about her powers, and they share the same powers. Powers from Hylia. How can someone have those powers and not be Hylian and not be a Zelda? I want us to have the freedom to create, but it is easy to stay canon to established lore if you try. If you are going way out of the box, at least give a hint as to how X, Yand Z are possible. Otherwise, it is kind of like blowing off established lore. I would have been fine with the world being a bit smaller if it meant we had more people to interact with, a few traditional dungeons, and at least some weapons and tools that do not degrade. Part of what makes each Link set apart is the tools at his disposal. We did not have that in the last two titles. We had some tech and or magic and we had random weapons that break. What can we look back and remember an iconic item we used? Nothing really stands out because we changed weapons more than underwear, and we had no real tools to get around the world with. What many see as expansive freedom is actually freedom in place of substance. Like a Minecraft with good graphics, dropped in a world with no real call to action. We are told to save Zelda, but we often want to explore, so we are just playing around and are not motivated to save her in during BoTW as we are prompted to before we even get introduced to the world. It becomes an afterthought as we explore. All of our adventure is optional, rendering all Link did that is canon is wake up and save Zelda. We have no proof yet that he went to shrines or did anything aside from fight the Calamity. I just want a balance where we get a ton of freedom, can be very creative, but we also get some traditional puzzles and enough elements to the story to make it worth playing thru. The majority of gameplay should not be pure freedom over actually seeing a story play out. We are supposed to role play as Link. Link is the link between us and Hyrule. Role play was not present, really. We just got background stories, a few things happening in the present, and a ton of nothing to do except whatever we want to before just ending our adventure. I don't feel every puzzle should require creativity to solve. Let us have some items from dungeons unique to them to also be in the mix for puzzle solving. Having a hybrid of that and what the last two titles gave us is all we need. We needed the formula revamped, not scrapped. Each title feels different enough to warrant spending money on. It is not stale enough to justify as huge a departure as BotW brought us with it Zelda themed sandbox of doing whatever you want without any real story or substance. Let's all use one ability to solve every puzzle using our creativity in what is more of a test or trial and not a proper dungeon with the same esthetics and the same old crop and let's add 100+. I can get this stuff by playing other franchises. People play Zelda for Zelda and when NES has better dungeons you made a mistake with BotW and that is no debate. I cannot even take you serious if you try to tell me the first Zelda did not have better dungeons than the shrines. There should have been like 25 or 30 shrines and then thr DLC shrines and then just gave us sine larger dungeons. Tedious should not be what I recall for the newest titles. It is not fun to just create a new file and do it all again. It is too much.
@@jamesaaronslayton2463 ...You do know the story in Zelda has never been much to write home about? They all are basic, coming of age tales that don't really get that deep into what they're trying to tell. Most are always, "little boy wakes up, finds out his destiny will impact the world, meet Zelda, fight Ganon" riveting stuff for sure
Yeah. And don’t forget that the series was on life support due to low sales. But in the end, we all know the new formula is vastly superior to the old one, while still having room for improvement. It’s just the usual toxic minority and the clickbaiters here on TH-cam… especially so called “zeldatubers”. Sad, really.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
TBH, the naysayers of open Zelda need to realize that the reason BotW and TotK exist were due to how stale the Zelda formula was getting. Around the time TP and SS came out, most of us were clamoring for Zelda to go back to its roots of being open ended and having a focus again on exploration. The success of BotW and TotK kinda shows that the people are loud about this stuff are just a very vocal minority and Nintendo would be crazy to go backwards instead of keep pushing ahead. I think Echoes of Wisdom also shows Nintendo isn't gonna go back and for me and most others? That's awesome, keep innovating the series so it does get as stale as things were back in 2006 and 2011. Great video as always, your content is awesome
Yeah. And don’t forget that the series was on life support due to low sales.
But in the end, we all know the new formula is vastly superior to the old one, while still having room for improvement.
It’s just the usual toxic minority and the clickbaiters here on TH-cam… especially so called “zeldatubers”. Sad, really.
Thanks dude! Always appreciate seeing your name in the comment section and reading your kind remarks. And good points all around! The series did feel super stale during the TP and SS eras and needed a reinvention for sure. It's good to see Nintendo continuing to innovate with the series and not being deterred by the detractors.
Would love a Link Between Worlds to hit switch.
Absolutely. Such a shame that game is so hard to play these days.
Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks all shared a similar aesthetic/style. No, this aesthetic will not hang around forever. They're just taking advantage of assets which is fine. It's a cute style.
True, but Phantom Hourglass is a direct sequel to WW, so it makes more sense in that regard. This game and the Link's Awakening Remake are so different that the same art style being used is a little jarring for me. But again, not complaining. I agree with you that it's a cute art style.
I am in the middle. Do I like the direction that BotW and ToTK went, yes and no. I like the freedom, and I like the revamp of traditional Zelda. I did not enjoy traditional dungeons being gone. If you wanted to add some shrines in the mix to mix it up, so be it, but to remove it entirely and to have all weapons degrade was not practical. Things broke way too easily and it was more annoying rather than challenging. Zelda should capture the fun of exploration and should tell a good story. The story got better in Tears, but the storytelling was not so good in BotW. We had such an interesting story in concept, but we explored it thru memories and not gameplay. We also had too much environmental storytelling as a result. There should have been some aspects of the story we actually played thru. You can do this without being fully linear. The argument that they want freedom over being too linear does not work for me. It is not WoW or Everquest, or even Skyrim. Zelda exist in another genre and we do need aone sort of storytelling structure. Sorry, but to me OoT and SS and several other titles never felt too linear as we had some freedom as to the order to do things. More freedom I welcome, but not if it sacrifices us having continuity and a story given. Games have done it before. All we needed was some traditional dungeons in the mix with prompts to visit them in any order. Even as far black as OoT, you can do several of the temples in various orders. A few have to be done before others, but not all. During my first playthru, back in the day, the Fire Temple was my first temple I completed. All due to me having issues finding the hookshot. I did not realize until after the fire temple that I could pull graves back. So, I was never able to get into the Forest Temple until I figured that out. I did know that I needed a hook shot bc I read the diary and figured it was what I needed.
We could have had a handful of dungeon items that don't break. I spent too much of my gameplay having to go collect weapons because I was completely out. I don't need it to constantly break to present a challenge. Zelda enemies can be a challenge all their own sometimes. It was unnecessary.
We interacted in side quest, and not much actually occurred in the main quest, and while Tears did better at storytelling, it was not as well executed as previous titles. I mean, IMO Zelda and Zelda II on NES had better storytelling. To be fair, it was a product of its time, and we did not get too evolved of a story, but we have come to expect a story with a Zelda title. You can give a massive world if you want. You can add side quests and freedom to do some task if not all in any order. But you still have to tell a story, and I do not want every way to get thru a dungeon to be using creative hacks. Allow some of it to be a mix of traditional puzzles. The shrines were awful. We had way too many, to a point it was tedious. It was a lot of the same theme and too much of the same old stuff. It has little replay value for me. It felt so involved between them and Korok seeds that if I play, I play on my original save file. How can it be better going forward if it lacks replay value? You are not going to look at me and speak with your whole chest and say you have beat BotW or TotK from start to finish several times and would replay again anytime. Of course many of us have played IoT to TP or WW from start to finish dozens of times. I play the oracle games, NES Zeldas, OoT, MM, Twilight Princess all at least once a year from new file to finish.
The world was far too empty. We barely got any civilization. Less is more, but a lot of substance was lacking, and it felt like we got a giant sandbox to play in and be distracted while mom and dad were off shopping. In the case of these games, more felt like less due to a lack of story, lack of substance, and a lack of what makes Zelda, Zelda. Add to the formula or mix it up, but some core parts were scrapped, and it felt off. You can change aspects of Zelda and its formula, but the previous two titles were too large of a departure. It also is odd to me and I do not like what it does to the lore to still be ambiguous as to where it fits in the timeline and to give us a non Hylian incarnation of Hylia that is not named Zelda. A point I do not see enough people talking about. She literally teaches Zelda about her powers, and they share the same powers. Powers from Hylia. How can someone have those powers and not be Hylian and not be a Zelda? I want us to have the freedom to create, but it is easy to stay canon to established lore if you try. If you are going way out of the box, at least give a hint as to how X, Yand Z are possible. Otherwise, it is kind of like blowing off established lore. I would have been fine with the world being a bit smaller if it meant we had more people to interact with, a few traditional dungeons, and at least some weapons and tools that do not degrade. Part of what makes each Link set apart is the tools at his disposal. We did not have that in the last two titles. We had some tech and or magic and we had random weapons that break. What can we look back and remember an iconic item we used? Nothing really stands out because we changed weapons more than underwear, and we had no real tools to get around the world with.
What many see as expansive freedom is actually freedom in place of substance. Like a Minecraft with good graphics, dropped in a world with no real call to action. We are told to save Zelda, but we often want to explore, so we are just playing around and are not motivated to save her in during BoTW as we are prompted to before we even get introduced to the world. It becomes an afterthought as we explore. All of our adventure is optional, rendering all Link did that is canon is wake up and save Zelda. We have no proof yet that he went to shrines or did anything aside from fight the Calamity.
I just want a balance where we get a ton of freedom, can be very creative, but we also get some traditional puzzles and enough elements to the story to make it worth playing thru. The majority of gameplay should not be pure freedom over actually seeing a story play out. We are supposed to role play as Link. Link is the link between us and Hyrule. Role play was not present, really. We just got background stories, a few things happening in the present, and a ton of nothing to do except whatever we want to before just ending our adventure.
I don't feel every puzzle should require creativity to solve. Let us have some items from dungeons unique to them to also be in the mix for puzzle solving.
Having a hybrid of that and what the last two titles gave us is all we need. We needed the formula revamped, not scrapped. Each title feels different enough to warrant spending money on. It is not stale enough to justify as huge a departure as BotW brought us with it Zelda themed sandbox of doing whatever you want without any real story or substance. Let's all use one ability to solve every puzzle using our creativity in what is more of a test or trial and not a proper dungeon with the same esthetics and the same old crop and let's add 100+. I can get this stuff by playing other franchises. People play Zelda for Zelda and when NES has better dungeons you made a mistake with BotW and that is no debate. I cannot even take you serious if you try to tell me the first Zelda did not have better dungeons than the shrines. There should have been like 25 or 30 shrines and then thr DLC shrines and then just gave us sine larger dungeons. Tedious should not be what I recall for the newest titles. It is not fun to just create a new file and do it all again. It is too much.
@@jamesaaronslayton2463 ...You do know the story in Zelda has never been much to write home about? They all are basic, coming of age tales that don't really get that deep into what they're trying to tell. Most are always, "little boy wakes up, finds out his destiny will impact the world, meet Zelda, fight Ganon" riveting stuff for sure
Yeah. And don’t forget that the series was on life support due to low sales.
But in the end, we all know the new formula is vastly superior to the old one, while still having room for improvement.
It’s just the usual toxic minority and the clickbaiters here on TH-cam… especially so called “zeldatubers”. Sad, really.