This is the kind of practical and useful information that is very difficult for a home shop machinist to come across. Thank you so much for posting it, and please continue. Thanks!
Thanks Bob, We're glad that others are getting some useful information from the videos. Surface grinding is one of those areas where there are so many important variables that need to be controlled in order to get the best results. As I am finding out from you and others like you this information is hard to come by. I don't know all the answers but am happy to share what I do know or find out in the school of hard knocks. One example where I learn as I go is the video on truing a diamond wheel th-cam.com/video/891eW-ThZLg/w-d-xo.html the final results was better than I thought even though there is room for improvement. Thanks for your encouragement. Our goal is to produce at least one video per week and we have a lot of good things planned. One of the ideas I am excited about is showing how to turn a surface grinder into a high precision I.D. (internal diameter) grinder without turning the power to the machine on. I don't want to give away anymore than this because I want it to be a surprise. I think many are going to love this. I have to buy one more item and do a little machining for this to happen. I am saving for it now, hopefully in a few months we will be able to do this video. Steve
This is definitely one of the best videos on TH-cam. The information per minute content is absolutely fantastic. Thank you for your excellent work. Videos like this make the world a much more efficient and effective place.
Brilliant tuition Steve, keep up the excellent videos. Just found your channel and I am working through all of your videos. not found a bad one yet. You tube needs more people like yourself, well done.
I have been on the surface grinding field for a long time... But today's video taught me some important lessons.... Great video with great information.... Grab Love from your new Subscriber Suneel Kanda from India Uttar Pradesh Agra The City of Taj Mahal
Good informative video. The surface finish chart you showed is for cylinderical grinding, results will be different on a surface grinder or material other than 4140.
Thanks for the very informative video. Please keep producing if you can. I was going to order a ruby wheel for my surface grinder and zoomed in on the video image of the Radiac ruby. When I cross referenced the P/N Radiac lists the RAA prefix as a Pink. The RA prefix is a Ruby. I ordered the Pink as you show and it works great for my application.
Thanks so much for this and your many other well produced videos. The extreme close ups of the grinding wheel surfaces greatly help illustrate your content. Looking forward to watching all your posted videos and those yet to come. Also, hats off to your camera operator! Best wishes to you and your family for Thanksgiving. Roy, Buffalo, NY
Hi Robert, Thanks for subscribing. Stan has a lot of good videos, I enjoy watching them. We are having a hard time letting other know we are here. Randy Richard was kind enough to give us a shout out in his last video, which was by the way a great video th-cam.com/video/M9Io_oaG5PA/w-d-xo.html That has resulted in a lot of knew subscribers and viewers to which we are thankful to Randy for. We are glad you found us and hope you enjoy the videos. Steve
TH-cam is full of people that record videos because they think they know. But sometimes one comes across a video by real expert, like this one. Thank you!
thank you so much for producing this vid, as i have been dreaming of a surface grinder for a few months one dropped in my lap. i was warned of the rabbit hole of information ro go along with a grinder, and boy it sure is. this vid has shed alot of light on alot of questions i have had. keep it up, and keep your tagging up, i have been searching for the last month for info and vids, i found yours from stumbling through another youtube page. point being it never came up searching google or youtube. if you get that figured out, your views and subs should definitely reflect that.
Hi dj berg, Thanks for the comments. I am happy that you found us and are benefiting from the videos. I hope that grinder works out well for you. What kind of grinder did you get? We do add tags, but maybe not the rights ones. If you know others who are in the same boat as you shoot them a link to this channel. Until we figure out how to get listed better in the search engines, I am afraid there are others like you out there who are missing out.
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. My grinder is a 1944/5 taft peirce no.1, was given 10 brand new wheels from a friend, and im getting along, was not an easy start, need to find out what size my hub is to build a puller and be able to balance the wheels, along with but a good diamond, mines about toast, can get a decent finish, but between the wheels being 60grit or higher(cant complain since they were my favorite price), being in need of a diamond, and the only truing/balancing i have is on the machine, i think those are my biggest hurdles. as to the spiders, tagging, and getting search engine pulls, i would look that up, that will get you some serious help. the only real experiance i have with that stuff is rental property related, and that was all about addresses and town names. so i dont think they're really interchangeable, but it would work very well for local web searches on your business. Stan(Bar Z) has alot of info but there's no organization or labeling of it, so again its hard to sift through, as time goes by i get through more of his vids, but its gonna take some time.
Thanks Dave, We plan on focusing on surface grinding for a few more video as it seems to be what most viewer want covered. This weekend we hope to have one on the importance of proper coolant care and one one grinding the magnetic chuck. Steve
Hi Dawid, Thanks for subscribing. We are glad you found us. We try to get a higher rank in the search engines but we must be doing something wrong, other subscribers have found us by accident. Steve
This video you shares how detailed you are about surface grinding wheels, love your ability to zoom in share in great detail both the build up with material types and the corner edge grain is really helpful, especially to a guy like me that is learning. Because I have bought just Norton grinding wheel not for a surface grinder because we do not yet have one but, rather for our table top grinder. The open or closed structures information makes sense for wheel load up. I shall investigate the continued experience you achieve and the studies share 46 grit wheels. We only know one other TH-camr that used to make videos and shares great grinding techniques is Don over at Suburban Tool and I cannot recall if he shares the angle on your diamond dresser like you do.
Hi Active Atom, Thanks for the comments. I like Don at Suburban too. You also have Stan at Bar Z Industrial who has a lot of grinding content th-cam.com/channels/ircIu8sQ-e67gH4kcb0xdA.html Robin Rensetti also has some nice grinding content in some of his videos th-cam.com/channels/n4U3aEr6L2nLe1m_3as6JQ.html Steve
Almost all your points about the wheel dressing diamond were new to me. I'd be interested to see what a dull diamond vs. a 'sharp' diamond looks like with your magnifier setup. Definately the most informative video so far!
Hi someboby else, I try to stay away from dull diamonds. I can tell you from experience they do not work well. I like the multi point or cluster diamonds the best. They last a long time and I get the best results from them. Steve
Im new To surface grinding. I just got my surface grinder dialed in and re-ground the table in the Chuck and now it’s grinding very well. My wheels got worn out doing it, but this help me decide which to purchase. Thank you so much
Hi Jeremy, The 46.2 grit wheel I liked for grinding the magnet is no longer made. I am in a search to find a wheel that worked as well or better. Steve
This was very interesting! I am a woodworker by trade so my thinking was of course the finer the grit the smoother the finish. Very different for metal working! Also you don’t have to have dozens of different grit wheels when for basic steel grinding a 46 grit wheel will do roughing to fine finishing.
Hi Samuel, You are correct, the 46 grit wheel is my workhorse wheel and I use it just like you say for roughing and finishing. Over 90 percent of the grinding I do is with the 46 grit wheel. Steve
Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Good tip about the diamond, i'll have to get one of those offset blocks. Still struggling to get a nice surface finish with either 46 or 120 j/k hardness on 304SS or low carbon steel.
I have never ground 304ss. I did some research and found out some of the issues people were having grinding 304. I would try a 46 grit H or G porous (open) flooded with coolant this will help with the heat and let the grit break away as it gets dull. Some are saying to use a Silicon Carbide wheel because of the sharper grit. Make sure your diamond dresser is Sharpe and dresses freely. Also, here is a trick that I think has a good chance of working in 304. Paint the surface you are grinding with undiluted coolant before each pass and run the flood coolant while grinding like in this video th-cam.com/video/yD1MmjlWWV8/w-d-xo.html at the 28 minute mark. Steve
I'll buy a coolant setup this week. I did purchase a 60 grit semi-porous Silicon Carbide I wheel (PN: 67962043 from MSC). I just ran a couple quick passes and so far I'm getting a much better finish. The other wheels I have are aluminum oxide and they tend to burn/gouge the SS even when I try making a small cut ~0.0005. I've been concerned about dust collection, any thoughts on running dust collector with coolant? I've seen either dust collector or coolant but not both.
@@nick99995 Great news, I am glad things are working out. As far as dust I wear a very comfortable respirator with replaceable filters. You will see it in some of the videos. Steve
@@nick99995 If you haven't already got it, here may be a few tips to help you. I run a manual surface grinder for a living so if you are working with an automatic, it may not apply. You are going to rough things in, then redress to get a good finish. Open/porous wheels will run cooler but the stainless will adhere itself to it and cause digging, much like aluminum does. I do use them and normally it's a 1 inch wide Radiac 46 H Ruby colored wheel. You'll have a hard time holding a corner with it though. Second wheel I use the most is a 100 I (eye) I use it for dropping slots, corners and radii. I breaks down as well but doesn't load up like open grain wheels do. If you are trying to do flat plates it's extremely hard to do unless you have a flooding, automatic surface grinding. Reason being is heat. As you go across the plate the heat keeps building as the wheel dulls . As it does you will make a heat hole and can get warp issues. If you are trying to grind an edge, instead of laying it long ways, put it on an angle so the heat can't build as much. In other words, smaller cuts if you will. It all depends on your tolerances and finishes needed. Our normal tolerance is .0002 total so I'm used to that. My home projects I do mirror polished stainless so I have some room to play with as I'm not holding stuff that tight. To be honest, on home stuff for large flats, I'll use a 9 inch angle grinder, to a DA sander, to hand sanding and finally to polish. Here is an example of me doing that. imageevent.com/kevininohio/thegrill If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Just stumbled across this channel today and he is giving you real world advice and can't argue with what most all he has said.
Thank You! I recently acquired a small T&C grinder and realized I had no idea what I should use when and how to interpret the results. This will help get me going!
Steve - yeah this video is awesome!!! Glad you showed close up and breakdown of wheel. I have looked but do you do much Carbide grinding? Would like to hear your take on diamond wheels, dressing them, heat transfer etc.
Hi James, I do not have a diamond wheel dresser but here is a video of how I did it without the special tools. th-cam.com/video/891eW-ThZLg/w-d-xo.html It worked out very well, I did it this way 2 times now. Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc i think it's pretty important that this kind of knowledge is being put online, i don't know many machinists who are better than "cargo cult" level with toolroom surface grinders, I'm only barely past that level.
Hi Ibcustomknives, I have never worked in Titanium before so I would not be able to give a good answer. If you have some scrap Titanium laying around I would be happy to experiment on it free of charge and let you know what I come up with. Steve
Thanks for the great video. I really like the popsickle trick. Can you tell me what the proper wheel is for a bench grinder that I need to grind on the side for drill bit sharpening? I have a sharpening jig but the instructions say to grind the drills on the side of the wheel. General used to make one (model 826) but they don't carry it now so I am looking for a replacement. Thanks again for all the info.
I am not sure about the proper wheel for a bench grinder. I just use what came with my grinder. Mine came with a rough grit on one side and a finer grit on the other. I sharpen my drills by hand. Steve
Hi B Stevemer, Everything was done with an Olympus OMD E-M5 ll using the high res mode with the zuiko digital 12-50mm lens on macro mode. And a Panasonic DMC-FZ70 with a DCR-250 lens set up similar to the one in the following video link. th-cam.com/video/rXPyJPUVKqQ/w-d-xo.html.
Steve I just bought my first grinder. It takes max 7" diameter wheels. What would be a few good wheels to start with? Just for learning the machine - small part hobbying stuff.
I use tung depessers to check the form I dressed in a wheel . You didn't talk wheel balance and how solid your machine is. When I worked on Cincinnati T&C grinders I never balanced wheels as that machine is solid as a rock .I now own a Ko lee grinder . I have had the motor and spindle balanced better than I bought it new and still need to balance the wheels. The Cincinnati no2 weighs about 1000 pounds more. That makes a big difference.
I can't speak for all grinding machines and grinding wheel manufactures but the ones I used I never had a need to balance the wheels. I have only had a few wheels in my lifetime that were out of balance so bad that proper wheel dressing would not compensate and would not use them knowing they wee defective. Steve
Hi Paul, Welcome, tell Randy thanks for me! We hope to do videos that will benefit those interested in the trade. Receiving feedback from the viewers helps us a lot, thanks for the comments. Steve
When/if you get the time, I'd like to see your "About" page fleshed out with some background info and maybe a little about what kind of machining interests you guys the most.
grit size means for example 46 it takes that many grains to line them up in an inch so the higher number the finer grits, the harder the material to be ground the softer the wheel if you are grinding O.D you'll need harder wheels, abrasive grains are held together with clay that if fired and becomes ceramic that's why they break when droppedthanks for the video very informative , nice work.
Yeah. Like your saying in this video it seems. Not to take away from your message, but does it not always seem like an experiment with each job? lol. surface grinding was my first job in around '80' and not to pull rank, but, it's just been a few years then had to grind that D2 with many thin (.058) pieces on the chuck. Then a step down to .029 for these 'ears' that hang off. I was waiting for the 'ear' to flare to 'hear' the heat but did surprisingly well. +/- .0005 job and held it. Used a typical 1"wide 46K to radial feed only (not crush with constant pressure). I like the way the wheel broke down doing the full .029 depth and left about .004 to redress and finish. After all, I was not concerned for the machine accuracy (not after running many in the day and feeling that old truck lol) but how the D2 would hold up to the tolerance after the heat and stress. The old days are coming back and your video helped to remind me on the 'grain' of grinding. Thanks Sir. One to another. ;- )
Hi Do Right, Thanks for sharing. Each job has its own challenges. I try to approach each job looking for the controllable variables that are involved. The more variables I can control the better the results. I try to learn something new on every job and ponder how I can apply these things to other jobs. The job you describe would be a difficult job, thin steel has its own challenges but the D2 on top of that greatly adds to the difficulty. I am glad it worked out for you. Steve
you know your grinding, this coming from an old grinder hand, I used cluster diamond to dress the wheel and used SG Silicon Gel (blue)wheels worn down smaller diameter 46J works good for dusting the magnetic chuck.
Can you use the balancing flanges that you have on your surface grinder on a conventional bench top grinder? If so, can you tell me were you can purchase them/ Many thanks RC
if you have a sharp diamond tip you are dressing the wheel if its not sharp you are burnishing the wheel that doesn't produce sharp grits and generates more heat. the preferred dressing speed for surface grinders is 10 inches a minute, to touch up the magnetic chuck use a 46 grit H hardness downfeed.0002 at a time with a revolution of the cross slide wheel
Hi Sam, I prefer cluster diamonds over single point ones. I have much better results with them. I use under .0001" down feed with blank passes when touching up the magnet and always have great results.
Thank you for these videos, you provide a valuable service. You are the Dean of USG The University of Surface Grinding! My question is who do you buy these grinding wheels from? I found your list for Kieth Rucker. I cannot find any supplier that has more than one of the wheels on the list.
Sadly Radiac does not make the white 46.2 wheel anymore. I get mine through Norchuk Supply. If you don't have Norchuk close by you can contact the one I use at (231) 722-6088 and they can help you out. Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thank you for that. I'm a fellow Michigander from the east side and I go to Grand Rapids every Tuesday. I will contact Norchuk. I learned about you from Daryl Smith. He is helping me learn to scrape. He mentioned that you do personal training. I would be interested in finding out about that.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Steve, I visited Norchuk yesterday and they took really good care of me. What a pleasure to do business with a company like that. Thank you please give a shout out to them for me!
Hi Manus, Here is a list I made for Keith Rucker. #3 is no longer made. #2 would be my choice for the type work I do if I could only have one. #1 RAA46 H800 VOS This is a Ruby color Aluminum Oxide wheel (higher quality than white AO) It is 46 grit at H hardness. General go to for steels under 60RC the VOS means it is open structure (porous) and it will work well at controlling heat. I use it for dry and wet grinding. It should work well with your mister setup. The VOS wheels weak point is that they do not hold shoulders very well and you will have to finish up with a none porous wheel to get a tight corner radius. #2 8PB46 H800 VOS The is an Aluminum Oxide Ceramic mix open structure(porous) wheel. It is 46 grit H hardness. It is great for steels over 60 RC. Cool cutting and you can use it aggressively. Because my Squaring blocks are 62 RC this is the wheel I use on them. On DC53 over 60 RC it leaves a nice finish. If it is under 60RC you can get a little better finish with #1. If it is 62 RC #1 breaks down to fast affecting finish and hard to hold super flatness. Same problem as #1 for corner work, use a non porous wheel for corner work. #3 5A46.2 J V12 This is a white Aluminum Oxide wheel. It is a dual grit wheel, mostly 46 grit and 2 % finer grit blend at a J hardness. it is close structure (non porous). I do not know what the finer grit is. This is a good all around wheel for under 60RC steels. This is my go to wheel for grinding the chuck. It well hold good corners for its grit size. #4 RA100 LS V8 The is a Ruby color Aluminum Oxide wheel at 100 grit and a L hardness. Used right it is great for grinding small delicate work holding very tight corner radius. Great for form grinding tight forms. It is a special purpose wheel and works great in those applications but poorly in others. Watch this video to see what I mean for special applications th-cam.com/video/5AdBpCZ5mA4/w-d-xo.html #5 46 grit green or black silicon carbide wheels for grinding Aluminum and Cast Iron. Steve
I make form tools that are used on CNC machines at the company I work at. I can’t find any videos on making form tools this way as most companies now use wire EDM
Hi 7Pines Knives, At my full time job we use to do a lot of form grinding too. Hard turning has eliminated form grinding for us and it is not done there anymore. Form grinding was an art by itself. Steve
I don't use Brix Refractometers to measure coolant. They measure particles in the coolant and when the coolant gets dirty you do not know the true mixture rate. I mix my coolant based upon the instructions and go with that. When I need to add coolant I add a reduced mix (1/2-3/4) to compensate fore water evaporation.
Hi Justin, I am assuming your question is in reference to a small grinder like the one in this video. If you have a larger grinder that uses a larger diameter wheel you will want to use a thicker wheel. At my full time job our biggest grinder has a 2" wide 12" diameter wheel (I believe the grinder is a 20* 40). I would stay with the 1/2" wheel for the magnet on smaller grinders like ours. On some grinders if you use a 1" wheel you will run out of Y axis travel before the wheel is all the way off the magnet which will make it very difficult to get a flat magnet on the entire surface. Also, the wheel will load on the leading edge and it will not matter how much fresh wheel is behind the leading edge because the loaded edge will become the largest diameter of the wheel and it will rub and generate heat. Grinding a magnet super flat is much harder than most people think. To achieve the flatness that I desire requires between 1 and 2 hours most of the time depending how bad it was to start with. I did a video on grinding the magnet here th-cam.com/video/5IXhP--Q_Qg/w-d-xo.html if you are interested. Steve
Hi Steve, I'm new to the channel and I've been binge watching your videos and you explain everything better than anyone else.. I'm wondering if when a wide wheel starts to load up, is it possible to just hit the leading edge with the dressing stick to remove the built up area to below the rest of the wheel and just keep grinding? I've never run a surface grinder before and I'm picking up an old snow&co p36 surface grinder next month, I'm expecting problems with wheel loading grinding such a big chuck and if that would work if might be enough to save my bacon
It depends on a lot of variables. How much stock to remove, finish desired, ID. or OD.etc. For general surface grinding I am using a 150 grit 100 percent concentration resin bond wheel 8" x 1/2" with 1/4" thickness of diamond material. This works good for light roughing and still maintains a nice finish and will last a long time. Steve
I am grinding some hand planes. The surface is flat and smooth but has streaks in it. I have tried everything from the 36 grit on this video to a 80H. I am flooding the plane with a water soluable oil.What am I doing wrong?
Are the streaks caused by the grinding wheel? Are they more like random scratches? Are the planes hard steel or are they soft? Also, do you know what type of steel it is? Is there some way you can send me a picture of what the plane looks like after you grind it. You can send it to solidrock@nlbchapel .org Steve
The planes are cast and are hard. I grind one side using right angle plates, the other side using the chuck. The bottom is then ground using vises. I dress the wheel each time I change position. I do have pictures but I dont know how to attach them here.
thank you for passing your knowledge. but you cannot really assess your surface finish regarding your wheel alone. what about wheel speed, dressing feed, cross feed, table speed. static diamond or rotary dressers. theres just too much variables. with one particular wheel i can get totally different surface finishes tweaking all these parameters. and then theres all the different types of steel
You are welcome and you are correct, there are many more variables than shown in the video. I do not have variable speed on my grinder so the variable RPM I have no control of. The most I could do is adjust the SFM by wheel diameter. The testing I did was based upon the conditions I grind with and more so focused on the surface finish based upon grit size .
They make some of the best wheels that I have ever used but you have to get the right ones for the right job. Matching the wheel to your work is important for any brand you use.
This is the kind of practical and useful information that is very difficult for a home shop machinist to come across. Thank you so much for posting it, and please continue. Thanks!
Thanks Bob,
We're glad that others are getting some useful information from the videos. Surface grinding is one of those areas where there are so many important variables that need to be controlled in order to get the best results. As I am finding out from you and others like you this information is hard to come by. I don't know all the answers but am happy to share what I do know or find out in the school of hard knocks. One example where I learn as I go is the video on truing a diamond wheel th-cam.com/video/891eW-ThZLg/w-d-xo.html the final results was better than I thought even though there is room for improvement. Thanks for your encouragement. Our goal is to produce at least one video per week and we have a lot of good things planned. One of the ideas I am excited about is showing how to turn a surface grinder into a high precision I.D. (internal diameter) grinder without turning the power to the machine on. I don't want to give away anymore than this because I want it to be a surprise. I think many are going to love this. I have to buy one more item and do a little machining for this to happen. I am saving for it now, hopefully in a few months we will be able to do this video.
Steve
A trick : watch series at flixzone. Me and my gf have been using them for watching lots of of movies during the lockdown.
@Sincere Ace Yup, I've been using Flixzone} for since december myself :D
@Sincere Ace Definitely, I have been using flixzone} for since december myself :)
@Sincere Ace definitely, have been watching on flixzone} for years myself :)
This is definitely one of the best videos on TH-cam. The information per minute content is absolutely fantastic. Thank you for your excellent work. Videos like this make the world a much more efficient and effective place.
Thank you for the kind words.
Steve
This channel is FAN-F-KCING-TASTIC. I only regret that I didn't find it sooner.
Thanks, glad you like it.
Steve
Great video mate, well explained. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Brilliant tuition Steve, keep up the excellent videos. Just found your channel and I am working through all of your videos. not found a bad one yet. You tube needs more people like yourself, well done.
Hi Ian bethel,
Thanks for the kind words. We are happy that others are finding some value in the videos.
Steve
Steve, I like your videos, this one I found very informative. I like the magnification take on it.
Hi Chris,
Thanks you. We have a few videos like this one with magnification of the wheels and parts.
Steve
The popsicle stick trick is terrific. Thanks for reminding me of it. I learned it back in 1997 but forgot about it.
Top notch video. This is the kind of information based on experience that is hard to come by.
Thank you for the response and the valuable information. Great video's👍
I just bought Parker Majestic #2 grinder and am slowly learning to use it. Thank you for a very informative video Steve. Subbed!
Awesome! Thank you!
I have been on the surface grinding field for a long time...
But today's video taught me some important lessons....
Great video with great information....
Grab Love from your new Subscriber Suneel Kanda from India Uttar Pradesh Agra The City of Taj Mahal
Good informative video. The surface finish chart you showed is for cylinderical grinding, results will be different on a surface grinder or material other than 4140.
The point was that a finer grit does not necessarily mean a better finish. I have the same results on the surface grinder if not more so.
Thanks for another very informative post Steve!. Looking forward to more. Thanks
Hi James,
Your welcome, this is our most popular video.
Steve
Thanks for the very informative video. Please keep producing if you can. I was going to order a ruby wheel for my surface grinder and zoomed in on the video image of the Radiac ruby. When I cross referenced the P/N Radiac lists the RAA prefix as a Pink. The RA prefix is a Ruby. I ordered the Pink as you show and it works great for my application.
So many great tips, thank you for showing us this.
You're Welcome.
Very good practical knowledge, very useful - thank you for the video mate!
You're welcome.
Steve
Thanks so much for this and your many other well produced videos.
The extreme close ups of the grinding wheel surfaces greatly help illustrate your content.
Looking forward to watching all your posted videos and those yet to come. Also, hats off to your camera operator!
Best wishes to you and your family for Thanksgiving.
Roy,
Buffalo, NY
Thanks Roy,
Best wishes to you too.
Steve
Great video! Very helpful..
Super images.
Appreciate your detailed information
Thanks D K.
Thank you so much Steve. This was very informative. Keep em coming!
John
You're welcome John.
Really enjoy your vids. Great info on coolant and grit size.
Hi Pappaoh,
I am glad you are enjoying the videos.
Steve
New to machining and your videos are super helpful! Thanks
You're welcome, thanks for watching.
Steve
Just finding you [Subscribed], and that was the result of a comment that you had left on one of Stan's videos. Excellent video/information, thanks!
Hi Robert,
Thanks for subscribing. Stan has a lot of good videos, I enjoy watching them. We are having a hard time letting other know we are here. Randy Richard was kind enough to give us a shout out in his last video, which was by the way a great video th-cam.com/video/M9Io_oaG5PA/w-d-xo.html That has resulted in a lot of knew subscribers and viewers to which we are thankful to Randy for. We are glad you found us and hope you enjoy the videos.
Steve
Great video!
I have just recently purchased a surface grinder, and have really enjoyed your videos. They are very informative. Keep up the good work
Hi James,
What type and brand did you get? I hope it serves you well.
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. I purchased a used chevalier 618, it seems to be in very good shape, just needs a good cleaning.
TH-cam is full of people that record videos because they think they know.
But sometimes one comes across a video by real expert, like this one.
Thank you!
Thanks for the kind words Robert.
Steve
thank you so much for producing this vid, as i have been dreaming of a surface grinder for a few months one dropped in my lap. i was warned of the rabbit hole of information ro go along with a grinder, and boy it sure is. this vid has shed alot of light on alot of questions i have had.
keep it up, and keep your tagging up, i have been searching for the last month for info and vids, i found yours from stumbling through another youtube page. point being it never came up searching google or youtube. if you get that figured out, your views and subs should definitely reflect that.
Hi dj berg,
Thanks for the comments. I am happy that you found us and are benefiting from the videos. I hope that grinder works out well for you. What kind of grinder did you get? We do add tags, but maybe not the rights ones. If you know others who are in the same boat as you shoot them a link to this channel. Until we figure out how to get listed better in the search engines, I am afraid there are others like you out there who are missing out.
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. My grinder is a 1944/5 taft peirce no.1, was given 10 brand new wheels from a friend, and im getting along, was not an easy start, need to find out what size my hub is to build a puller and be able to balance the wheels, along with but a good diamond, mines about toast, can get a decent finish, but between the wheels being 60grit or higher(cant complain since they were my favorite price), being in need of a diamond, and the only truing/balancing i have is on the machine, i think those are my biggest hurdles.
as to the spiders, tagging, and getting search engine pulls, i would look that up, that will get you some serious help. the only real experiance i have with that stuff is rental property related, and that was all about addresses and town names. so i dont think they're really interchangeable, but it would work very well for local web searches on your business.
Stan(Bar Z) has alot of info but there's no organization or labeling of it, so again its hard to sift through, as time goes by i get through more of his vids, but its gonna take some time.
Thanks for sharing your years of experience, very useful information.
You're welcome Sam.
Steve
Best surface grinding video on youtube. Solid gold. Tanks for sharing.
Thanks Dave,
We plan on focusing on surface grinding for a few more video as it seems to be what most viewer want covered. This weekend we hope to have one on the importance of proper coolant care and one one grinding the magnetic chuck. Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. I subscribed and will watch them all. Where are you guys located geographically.
Thanks Dave,
We are located in Holland Michigan. We are about 15 minutes away from Lake Michigan. How about you? Where are you located?
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. I live in Fort Myers Florida, but I'm in Michigan once in a while because I have an engineering company in Troy.
Excellent info cheers from central TX.
Thanks
Thank you I am not a machinist by trade but videos like yours.. first time I found your channel and subscribed after half a view
Hi Dawid,
Thanks for subscribing. We are glad you found us. We try to get a higher rank in the search engines but we must be doing something wrong, other subscribers have found us by accident.
Steve
This video you shares how detailed you are about surface grinding wheels, love your ability to zoom in share in great detail both the build up with material types and the corner edge grain is really helpful, especially to a guy like me that is learning. Because I have bought just Norton grinding wheel not for a surface grinder because we do not yet have one but, rather for our table top grinder. The open or closed structures information makes sense for wheel load up. I shall investigate the continued experience you achieve and the studies share 46 grit wheels. We only know one other TH-camr that used to make videos and shares great grinding techniques is Don over at Suburban Tool and I cannot recall if he shares the angle on your diamond dresser like you do.
Hi Active Atom,
Thanks for the comments. I like Don at Suburban too. You also have Stan at Bar Z Industrial who has a lot of grinding content th-cam.com/channels/ircIu8sQ-e67gH4kcb0xdA.html Robin Rensetti also has some nice grinding content in some of his videos th-cam.com/channels/n4U3aEr6L2nLe1m_3as6JQ.html
Steve
Almost all your points about the wheel dressing diamond were new to me. I'd be interested to see what a dull diamond vs. a 'sharp' diamond looks like with your magnifier setup.
Definately the most informative video so far!
Hi someboby else,
I try to stay away from dull diamonds. I can tell you from experience they do not work well. I like the multi point or cluster diamonds the best. They last a long time and I get the best results from them.
Steve
Awesome video, learned a ton, thank you!
Thanks ajfreeze215.
Steve
Perfect, better than text book. Tq steve. Machining student had to watch this video.
Thanks irfan,
What school are you going to and was this a class assignment?
Steve
That was an excellent video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Steve
Thankx for your time. Grinding some d2 tomorrow. Surface grinding is the first real job I started wit over 35 years ago. uggg lol. Thank you ;-)
ps thmbs up and sub ;-)
Hi Do Right,
You're welcome. I hope things work out for you with the D2.
Steve
Im new To surface grinding. I just got my surface grinder dialed in and re-ground the table in the Chuck and now it’s grinding very well. My wheels got worn out doing it, but this help me decide which to purchase. Thank you so much
Hi Jeremy,
The 46.2 grit wheel I liked for grinding the magnet is no longer made. I am in a search to find a wheel that worked as well or better.
Steve
I found one from grizzly a CGW with similar characteristics i will be testing. It was a good price
very informative. thanks for posting.
Thanks, John
This was very interesting! I am a woodworker by trade so my thinking was of course the finer the grit the smoother the finish. Very different for metal working! Also you don’t have to have dozens of different grit wheels when for basic steel grinding a 46 grit wheel will do roughing to fine finishing.
Hi Samuel,
You are correct, the 46 grit wheel is my workhorse wheel and I use it just like you say for roughing and finishing. Over 90 percent of the grinding I do is with the 46 grit wheel.
Steve
Thanks for the information! Great video. :)
Glad it was helpful!
Really good video!
Thanks.
I have a lot to learn when it comes to surface grinding!
Thanks for sharing Steve!
Razor!
You're welcome Razor.
Steve
Enjoyed the video
Cheers
Thanks Dave.
Steve
Great video thanks for sharing
Thanks Chuck.
Steve
Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Good tip about the diamond, i'll have to get one of those offset blocks. Still struggling to get a nice surface finish with either 46 or 120 j/k hardness on 304SS or low carbon steel.
I have never ground 304ss. I did some research and found out some of the issues people were having grinding 304. I would try a 46 grit H or G porous (open) flooded with coolant this will help with the heat and let the grit break away as it gets dull. Some are saying to use a Silicon Carbide wheel because of the sharper grit. Make sure your diamond dresser is Sharpe and dresses freely. Also, here is a trick that I think has a good chance of working in 304. Paint the surface you are grinding with undiluted coolant before each pass and run the flood coolant while grinding like in this video th-cam.com/video/yD1MmjlWWV8/w-d-xo.html at the 28 minute mark.
Steve
I'll buy a coolant setup this week. I did purchase a 60 grit semi-porous Silicon Carbide I wheel (PN: 67962043 from MSC). I just ran a couple quick passes and so far I'm getting a much better finish. The other wheels I have are aluminum oxide and they tend to burn/gouge the SS even when I try making a small cut ~0.0005. I've been concerned about dust collection, any thoughts on running dust collector with coolant? I've seen either dust collector or coolant but not both.
@@nick99995
Great news, I am glad things are working out. As far as dust I wear a very comfortable respirator with replaceable filters. You will see it in some of the videos.
Steve
@@nick99995 If you haven't already got it, here may be a few tips to help you. I run a manual surface grinder for a living so if you are working with an automatic, it may not apply. You are going to rough things in, then redress to get a good finish. Open/porous wheels will run cooler but the stainless will adhere itself to it and cause digging, much like aluminum does. I do use them and normally it's a 1 inch wide Radiac 46 H Ruby colored wheel. You'll have a hard time holding a corner with it though. Second wheel I use the most is a 100 I (eye) I use it for dropping slots, corners and radii. I breaks down as well but doesn't load up like open grain wheels do. If you are trying to do flat plates it's extremely hard to do unless you have a flooding, automatic surface grinding. Reason being is heat. As you go across the plate the heat keeps building as the wheel dulls . As it does you will make a heat hole and can get warp issues. If you are trying to grind an edge, instead of laying it long ways, put it on an angle so the heat can't build as much. In other words, smaller cuts if you will. It all depends on your tolerances and finishes needed. Our normal tolerance is .0002 total so I'm used to that. My home projects I do mirror polished stainless so I have some room to play with as I'm not holding stuff that tight.
To be honest, on home stuff for large flats, I'll use a 9 inch angle grinder, to a DA sander, to hand sanding and finally to polish. Here is an example of me doing that. imageevent.com/kevininohio/thegrill If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Just stumbled across this channel today and he is giving you real world advice and can't argue with what most all he has said.
excellant and useful and helpfull thank you
You are welcome.
Thank You! I recently acquired a small T&C grinder and realized I had no idea what I should use when and how to interpret the results. This will help get me going!
You're welcome, I hope things work out well for you with the T&C grinder.
Steve
Steve - yeah this video is awesome!!! Glad you showed close up and breakdown of wheel. I have looked but do you do much Carbide grinding? Would like to hear your take on diamond wheels, dressing them, heat transfer etc.
Hi James,
I do not have a diamond wheel dresser but here is a video of how I did it without the special tools. th-cam.com/video/891eW-ThZLg/w-d-xo.html It worked out very well, I did it this way 2 times now.
Steve
Excellent !!
Thanks.
great lecture. i was taking notes.
Thanks, We plan on doing an update in the near future.
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc i think it's pretty important that this kind of knowledge is being put online, i don't know many machinists who are better than "cargo cult" level with toolroom surface grinders, I'm only barely past that level.
Great information.
Thanks Jim.
Thank you so much for this vid. It’s helped a lot. Can you recommend a wheel for titanium please.
Hi Ibcustomknives,
I have never worked in Titanium before so I would not be able to give a good answer. If you have some scrap Titanium laying around I would be happy to experiment on it free of charge and let you know what I come up with.
Steve
Thanks for a nice video
Hi James,
Your welcome.
gracias gran maestro .....
You are welcome.
Steve
thank you for that info. Bob
You're welcome Bob.
Steve
This was a great overall presentation Steve, took a lot of notes on this one! Cheers
Alex
Thanks Alex.
nice tips, tnx for shear
Most welcome.
Thanks for the great video. I really like the popsickle trick. Can you tell me what the proper wheel is for a bench grinder that I need to grind on the side for drill bit sharpening? I have a sharpening jig but the instructions say to grind the drills on the side of the wheel. General used to make one (model 826) but they don't carry it now so I am looking for a replacement. Thanks again for all the info.
I am not sure about the proper wheel for a bench grinder. I just use what came with my grinder. Mine came with a rough grit on one side and a finer grit on the other. I sharpen my drills by hand.
Steve
Very good, learned a lot.
Not many good books on grinding for the newb.
What micro scope you using? Pretty clear.👍
Hi B Stevemer,
Everything was done with an Olympus OMD E-M5 ll using the high res mode with the zuiko digital 12-50mm lens on macro mode. And a Panasonic DMC-FZ70 with a DCR-250 lens set up similar to the one in the following video link. th-cam.com/video/rXPyJPUVKqQ/w-d-xo.html.
Steve I just bought my first grinder. It takes max 7" diameter wheels. What would be a few good wheels to start with? Just for learning the machine - small part hobbying stuff.
We are doing the same business,useful videos.
Hi Forture Tools,
Who do you sell through in West Michigan?
Steve
Only send out from China factory
I use tung depessers to check the form I dressed in a wheel . You didn't talk wheel balance and how solid your machine is. When I worked on Cincinnati T&C grinders I never balanced wheels as that machine is solid as a rock .I now own a Ko lee grinder . I have had the motor and spindle balanced better than I bought it new and still need to balance the wheels. The Cincinnati no2 weighs about 1000 pounds more. That makes a big difference.
I can't speak for all grinding machines and grinding wheel manufactures but the ones I used I never had a need to balance the wheels. I have only had a few wheels in my lifetime that were out of balance so bad that proper wheel dressing would not compensate and would not use them knowing they wee defective.
Steve
RRITS sent me. Your videos are very informative and well presented.
Hi Paul,
Welcome, tell Randy thanks for me! We hope to do videos that will benefit those interested in the trade. Receiving feedback from the viewers helps us a lot, thanks for the comments.
Steve
When/if you get the time, I'd like to see your "About" page fleshed out with some background info and maybe a little about what kind of machining interests you guys the most.
That is a good idea. I well start working on it soon.
grit size means for example 46 it takes that many grains to line them up in an inch so the higher number the finer grits, the harder the material to be ground the softer the wheel if you are grinding O.D you'll need harder wheels, abrasive grains are held together with clay that if fired and becomes ceramic that's why they break when droppedthanks for the video very informative , nice work.
You're welcome Sam.
Excellent! It sounds like you've been doing this for a while......
Hi Chuck,
Off and on for 40 years, learned a few trick on the way.
Steve
Yeah. Like your saying in this video it seems. Not to take away from your message, but does it not always seem like an experiment with each job? lol. surface grinding was my first job in around '80' and not to pull rank, but, it's just been a few years then had to grind that D2 with many thin (.058) pieces on the chuck. Then a step down to .029 for these 'ears' that hang off. I was waiting for the 'ear' to flare to 'hear' the heat but did surprisingly well. +/- .0005 job and held it. Used a typical 1"wide 46K to radial feed only (not crush with constant pressure). I like the way the wheel broke down doing the full .029 depth and left about .004 to redress and finish. After all, I was not concerned for the machine accuracy (not after running many in the day and feeling that old truck lol) but how the D2 would hold up to the tolerance after the heat and stress. The old days are coming back and your video helped to remind me on the 'grain' of grinding. Thanks Sir. One to another. ;- )
ps. I guess the point being wheel break down is not always the enemy compared to 'burning' hardened tool steel cutters.
Hi Do Right,
Thanks for sharing. Each job has its own challenges. I try to approach each job looking for the controllable variables that are involved. The more variables I can control the better the results. I try to learn something new on every job and ponder how I can apply these things to other jobs. The job you describe would be a difficult job, thin steel has its own challenges but the D2 on top of that greatly adds to the difficulty. I am glad it worked out for you.
Steve
you know your grinding, this coming from an old grinder hand, I used cluster diamond to dress the wheel and used SG Silicon Gel (blue)wheels worn down smaller diameter 46J works good for dusting the magnetic chuck.
Thanks for the tip.
Steve
Can you use the balancing flanges that you have on your surface grinder on a conventional bench top grinder? If so, can you tell me were you can purchase them/
Many thanks
RC
Hi Ron,
That I don't know. I very rarely balance my wheels on the surface grinder.
Steve
if you have a sharp diamond tip you are dressing the wheel if its not sharp you are burnishing the wheel that doesn't produce sharp grits and generates more heat. the preferred dressing speed for surface grinders is 10 inches a minute, to touch up the magnetic chuck use a 46 grit H hardness downfeed.0002 at a time with a revolution of the cross slide wheel
Hi Sam,
I prefer cluster diamonds over single point ones. I have much better results with them. I use under .0001" down feed with blank passes when touching up the magnet and always have great results.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc you know your stuff,most pre youtube videos, it was trial and error and if lucky an old timer would guide you.
Thank you for these videos, you provide a valuable service. You are the Dean of USG The University of Surface Grinding! My question is who do you buy these grinding wheels from? I found your list for Kieth Rucker. I cannot find any supplier that has more than one of the wheels on the list.
Sadly Radiac does not make the white 46.2 wheel anymore. I get mine through Norchuk Supply. If you don't have Norchuk close by you can contact the one I use at
(231) 722-6088 and they can help you out.
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thank you for that. I'm a fellow Michigander from the east side and I go to Grand Rapids every Tuesday. I will contact Norchuk. I learned about you from Daryl Smith. He is helping me learn to scrape. He mentioned that you do personal training. I would be interested in finding out about that.
@@Dbarves Send me an email at solidrock@nlbchapel .org (without the space) We can discuss things in private. Include your phone number in the email.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Steve, I visited Norchuk yesterday and they took really good care of me. What a pleasure to do business with a company like that. Thank you please give a shout out to them for me!
if i can aford only one wheel. wich one would you recomend. genral grinding toolsteel and sharpening cutters.
whats your first call.
Hi Manus,
Here is a list I made for Keith Rucker. #3 is no longer made. #2 would be my choice for the type work I do if I could only have one.
#1 RAA46 H800 VOS This is a Ruby color Aluminum Oxide wheel (higher quality than white AO) It is 46 grit at H hardness. General go to for steels under 60RC the VOS means it is open structure (porous) and it will work well at controlling heat. I use it for dry and wet
grinding. It should work well with your mister setup. The VOS wheels weak point is that they
do not hold shoulders very well and you will have to finish up with a none porous wheel to get a tight corner radius.
#2 8PB46 H800 VOS The is an Aluminum Oxide Ceramic mix open structure(porous) wheel. It is 46 grit H hardness. It is great for steels over 60 RC. Cool cutting and you can use it aggressively. Because my Squaring blocks are 62 RC this is the wheel I use on them. On DC53 over 60 RC it leaves a nice finish. If it is under 60RC you can get a little better finish with #1. If it is 62 RC #1 breaks down to fast affecting finish and hard to hold super flatness. Same problem as #1 for corner work, use a non porous wheel for corner work.
#3 5A46.2 J V12 This is a white Aluminum Oxide wheel. It is a dual grit wheel, mostly 46 grit and 2 % finer grit blend at a J hardness. it is close structure (non porous). I do not know what the finer grit is. This is a good all around wheel for under 60RC steels. This is my go to wheel for grinding the chuck. It well hold good corners for its grit size.
#4 RA100 LS V8 The is a Ruby color Aluminum Oxide wheel at 100 grit and a L hardness. Used right it is great for grinding small delicate work holding very tight corner radius. Great for form grinding tight forms. It is a special purpose wheel and works great in those applications but poorly in others. Watch this video to see what I mean for special applications th-cam.com/video/5AdBpCZ5mA4/w-d-xo.html
#5 46 grit green or black silicon carbide wheels for grinding Aluminum and Cast Iron.
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc thank you this is very helpfull
I make form tools that are used on CNC machines at the company I work at. I can’t find any videos on making form tools this way as most companies now use wire EDM
Hi 7Pines Knives,
At my full time job we use to do a lot of form grinding too. Hard turning has eliminated form grinding for us and it is not done there anymore. Form grinding was an art by itself.
Steve
Around how many brix should the coolant in my surface grinder be?
I don't use Brix Refractometers to measure coolant. They measure particles in the coolant and when the coolant gets dirty you do not know the true mixture rate. I mix my coolant based upon the instructions and go with that. When I need to add coolant I add a reduced mix (1/2-3/4) to compensate fore water evaporation.
What would be the purpose of having a 1 inch wide grinding wheel vs a 1/2 inch wide griding wheel? In reguards to grinding a chuck.
Hi Justin,
I am assuming your question is in reference to a small grinder like the one in this video. If you have a larger grinder that uses a larger diameter wheel you will want to use a thicker wheel. At my full time job our biggest grinder has a 2" wide 12" diameter wheel (I believe the grinder is a 20* 40). I would stay with the 1/2" wheel for the magnet on smaller grinders like ours. On some grinders if you use a 1" wheel you will run out of Y axis travel before the wheel is all the way off the magnet which will make it very difficult to get a flat magnet on the entire surface. Also, the wheel will load on the leading edge and it will not matter how much fresh wheel is behind the leading edge because the loaded edge will become the largest diameter of the wheel and it will rub and generate heat. Grinding a magnet super flat is much harder than most people think. To achieve the flatness that I desire requires between 1 and 2 hours most of the time depending how bad it was to start with. I did a video on grinding the magnet here th-cam.com/video/5IXhP--Q_Qg/w-d-xo.html if you are interested.
Steve
Hi Steve, I'm new to the channel and I've been binge watching your videos and you explain everything better than anyone else.. I'm wondering if when a wide wheel starts to load up, is it possible to just hit the leading edge with the dressing stick to remove the built up area to below the rest of the wheel and just keep grinding? I've never run a surface grinder before and I'm picking up an old snow&co p36 surface grinder next month, I'm expecting problems with wheel loading grinding such a big chuck and if that would work if might be enough to save my bacon
The last one is the same color than the disc I use to sharpen chainsaw chains
The ruby red wheels are a higher quality Aluminum Oxide wheel than the white.
Steve
grinding carbid what diamond wheel do i use Eugene from illinois thank you
It depends on a lot of variables. How much stock to remove, finish desired, ID. or OD.etc. For general surface grinding I am using a 150 grit 100 percent concentration resin bond wheel 8" x 1/2" with 1/4" thickness of diamond material. This works good for light roughing and still maintains a nice finish and will last a long time.
Steve
YOU ARE 100% CORRECT ACROSS THE BOARD !!!
Thank you.
thanks sir
Hi pinki sorout,
You are welcome.
Steve
Do you know where i can get parts for a Millport 6x18 surface grinder.especially a table cog belt.Thanks.
Hi Ernie,
Sorry, I do not know where to get parts for that machine. You can try the manufacture or do an internet search for them.
Steve
Ok
our requirment wheel of 200x20x50.8
mtl steel hardness 60-65 hrc max and 20-25 hrc minimum
mtl aluminum 20- 70 hrb
just some pointers on it....if your wheel is too hard, you can apply some beeswax to your wheel and it'll make it build up slower.
Hi Tyler,
Thanks for the pointers.
Steve
I am grinding some hand planes. The surface is flat and smooth but has streaks in it. I have tried everything from the 36 grit on this video to a 80H. I am flooding the plane with a water soluable oil.What am I doing wrong?
Are the streaks caused by the grinding wheel? Are they more like random scratches? Are the planes hard steel or are they soft? Also, do you know what type of steel it is? Is there some way you can send me a picture of what the plane looks like after you grind it. You can send it to solidrock@nlbchapel .org
Steve
The planes are cast and are hard. I grind one side using right angle plates, the other side using the chuck. The bottom is then ground using vises. I dress the wheel each time I change position. I do have pictures but I dont know how to attach them here.
Would you be able to send them to this email address solidrock@nlbchapel .org don't include the space before .org?
Steve
Ah another use for popsicle sticks
Hi Chis,
Those sticks work very well for grinding.
Steve
I don't have Popsicle sticks ... I do hang on to chopsticks, to use for other things, I might give those a try
@@infoanorexic they are handy to
you guys give a 20 micron feed ? wtf im never above 3
what "magnet" is he talking about? never heard that magnets are somehow related to ginding
Hard steel, soft wheel.
thank you for passing your knowledge. but you cannot really assess your surface finish regarding your wheel alone. what about wheel speed, dressing feed, cross feed, table speed. static diamond or rotary dressers. theres just too much variables. with one particular wheel i can get totally different surface finishes tweaking all these parameters. and then theres all the different types of steel
You are welcome and you are correct, there are many more variables than shown in the video. I do not have variable speed on my grinder so the variable RPM I have no control of. The most I could do is adjust the SFM by wheel diameter. The testing I did was based upon the conditions I grind with and more so focused on the surface finish based upon grit size .
Radiac wheels were poor quality when I worked 10 years ago
They make some of the best wheels that I have ever used but you have to get the right ones for the right job. Matching the wheel to your work is important for any brand you use.