If You attach cryptothralls as bodyguard to character to blob of 20 normal necrons - if You kill all cryptothralls can You resurect them if normal necrons are still alive?
I actually found 10 with a lieutenant in deep strike allows to to deep strike then move d6 after shooting then charge. You can shred infantry unit with 50 attacks lethal hits and precision and take the point. It's not ideal but still playable.
@@giantorres3352 I created elite jump pack troops with reiver bodies. I think they have a certain paratrooper vibe for some reason. Maybe a bit unnecessary now that there are jump pack assault intercessors, but if you want to get a use out of them... 🙂
@@drewbg333im running the same style with mine, but only 5 men. Being able to DS, shoot, move and then have a reliable charge is great, precision and lethal hits is better. The shock test at a -1 is the cherry on top. In the sallie styled detachment, they can shine with S5 pistols, and the free assault if they need to reposition.
They are really good to take against character heavy armies. My brother runs thousands sons. I infiltrated them and scouted them in and killed his Ahriman turn 1. Weakened him greatly.
Just had a fun game with the Reiver Lieutenant with Fear Made Manifest with Reivers and Hounds of Morakai in a First Company Task Force. Wow. Pretty fun! Made my enemy sorta salty with how they all interacted but was super fun! Making Enemy Models flee when they fail battleshock in an aura of 6" with - 1 LD PLUS Hounds getting to call out a unit a turn to take Battle Shock does surprising amount of work!
The entire shtick of reivers is morale. With their low stats people complain that battleshock doesn’t do enough to justify their use… this is exactly how they should be used, doesn’t seem cheesy at all.they have no other use lol
I was about to buy a second one but couldn't find it. I was planning on overwathching ten times with two of them, a pair of fire strike servoturrets, and an eversor assassin.
Favourite combo right now is Gravis captain with artificer armor, t6 6W, 2+, 4++, 5++ half damage absolute brick/fridge of a model for like 90 or so pts.
I love my Vindicator but it's so Orky in damage output that tier 3 is the perfect location for it. One round it might get 1 wound in, another it might get 15 and one shot something. Kinds nice to see everything I have I tier 3 and above though.
I’d rate the brutalist draw bit higher due to his ability I like to call “free worse tank shock” that can be stacked with regular tank shock. I like to talk this up to my opponent and run him up the middle of the board as a big distraction as he runs in a straight like at a what ever is the scariest thing my opponent has. Averaging about 7 mortals off just that charge plus his melee, if you run him with the claws it’s quite scary. A giant coffin with knife hands really wants to give you a hug!
I just looked into them because of this comment. You're absolutely correct. Technically I could put 10 infernus and a leader plus a redemptor into the stormraven and fly them directly mid objective. That's very strong.
Suppressors need a better ability. Only making a unit that they hit have a worse hit roll is just sad. A barbgaunt like ability would make sense and allowing them to overwatch if it the marked target made a move. Pinning them in place makes sense.
Or if their cannons got BS 3+, and S9 and 3 Damage like all the other cannons. Then their special ability would be a nice little bonus instead of the only reason for their existence. Bigger squad size so they could actually have some benefit from strats would also be good.
@aheroforfun6401 I think that having them just be a damage dealer is too much for their movement. Making them too fast with high power is too well. Having a BS of 4 would be nice if the overwatch ability was that. They would make a good support that way. Being able to move to then pin the enemy on a 4 up, or stay in one spot so their overwatch becomes a 3 up.
@musicalcharge also fits their name. It keeps the enemy pinned down due to their suppression. Would make them a good support peice which seems to be their designed purpose.
I’m glad that I bought my Reaper, Repulsor, and Repulsor Executioner back in 9e when they were in-stock (and $$ cheaper), because now they’re actually good in 10e, they’re sold out everywhere and no LGS I’ve contacted knows when or if they’ll be restocked. I bought my SM vehicles purely for Rule of Cool. They weren’t very powerful in those days but they looked awesome on the table!
Still plenty available in the UK. My local GW stores have them. Aggressors however... think I ordered the last ones in the country from FLG store 100s of miles away
Vanguard vets with jump packs are a lot more useful in a Firestorm detachment, especially with a captain in tow. Vulkan points at a squad, your opponent looks at your 5 man infernus squad then you deep strike in an extra 11D6 flamer shots with devastating wounds
I love eliminators in deathwatch with the hellfire round strat giving them +2 to wound precision sniped out leaders no problem stick a Libby with them they become extremely difficult to deal with
RIP reivers. At the moment the only thing theyre good at is piling on an objective with a Phobos LT to retake it, but now that we have Jump Intercessors theres just no reason to use them (you could also argue the old reason was shaky at best).
@JimH. all they have to do is make battleshock more impactful and suddenly reivers become the best objective contesting unit space marines have. Until then? 💩
So very interesting question I have. The reivers and photos lieutenant have deep strike and the Phobos lt. Can move a unit d6 inches after shooting, so wouldn't that make then a good unit for basically guaranteeing a charge from deep strike on a squishy unit or perhaps a lone operative?
I hate what GW did to the Apothecary in 10e - they NERFED it so hard - that’s why it’s in Tier3 now. The Apothecary can only revive models from the unit it’s attached to, and it can only attach to units with 2W models. The Apothecary can’t heal any models (I know, that’s less important because of the 2W model restriction), only revive 1 dead model per turn, and it can’t be a Character! That situation would be exceedingly rare to begin with, but having it ruled out entirely is BS. The Apothecary should revive D3 number of models in a unit 2W models, or revive/heal D3 wounds for models with 3 or more Wounds. Also, the Apothecary should have the Lone Operative keyword and if it is not attached to a unit, it can revive models from any unit within 3-6” range. I suspect that GW deliberately made the Apothecary garbage in 10e to encourage players to buy and use the Apothecary Biologus instead - which is inexplicably an “apothecary” that cannot heal OR revive! I’d rather the Apothecary Biologus have all the normal Apothecary’s abilities plus its Objective Control ability and Gravis Armour, and cost 90-100 points, rather than the current version giving Lethal Hits for only 55 points. Alternatively, the Biologus’ abilities should be flipped so that after it kills an enemy model, it grants Lethal Hits to the unit; the explanation being that it examined the enemy’s remains, understands how to kill it more effectively, and passed that information to its unit. The OC 9 after killing an enemy makes no sense! It’s so frustrating because other factions in 10e have Healers that function the same as the past. GW only screwed with the Space Marines’ Apothecary for inexplicable reasons.
Best place for Apothecary's these days, imo, is if they are put into Sword Brethren units. Sword Brethren are a 3W unit that are arguable the best melee unit for Space Marines in any faction. An Apothecary wouldn't be the very best character to attach to them, but they aren't the worse either
@@Mike-8404 Yes, the Apothecary can lead a Sword Brethren squad because of the Attached Unit rule that grants them the same leaders as an Intercessor squad. I believe Sword Brethren are the sole exception to the 10e Apothecary’s no-3W-model restriction. One of the few times that Black Templars catch a break regarding unit restrictions.
I know people complain about Space Marines getting all the releases, but I’d like to see a Tau tidewall-type range based on the Hammerfall’s aesthetics. Come on, GW. Give the VII some love.
I feel the Stormraven Gunship should be in tier 3 rather than 4 as it has decent utility as a transport and reasonably durable as a flyer with good fire power for the points.
Do you think Outriders have more play with Firestorm? Since they auto-advance 6" and get Assault on their guns, letting them always move 18" to get those guns to where they need to be? Throw in an ATV and now you'll always be moving 18" to bring it's Str. 10 Multi-Melta into optimal threat range.
A bunch of storm bolters aren’t going to do anything. 2 melta shots will probably not do anything either? The outriders will just be better in the white scar detachment.
In a vehicle meta, they aren't good. Don't get me wrong, they have synergy - but for the points there are better units in Firestorm. Mostly because while they synergize with the detachment, they don't synergize with any of the detachment strats. There's something to be said for using a MSU for actions (because they go places and have Assault), but Inceptors DS and go through walls, so at that point the only argument is 95pts vs 110pts. If you don't have 15pts to spare, I could see Outriders making the cut.
Basically you're using Outiders and the ATV to steal objectives and harass weaker units. Any thoughts that they're going to be a damage dealer unit will lead to disappointment - at least until GW lets the sgt take a melee upgrade. In fact they may be the only squad in SM with a sgt. who can't. Such are the ways of GW...
I think reivers do have a use in the Vanguard detachment. They are Phobos deep strikers, and fairly inexpensive. 2 units can be targeted by a single use of guerilla tactics, could be good for secondary objective shenanigans
Your content is amazing. I'm brand new to Warhammer so I've been making my way through your videos. Thanks so much for making these. If you want some feed back keep reading, if not no problem keep up the great work. I would say as a North American, I find it hard to follow along with your speed/accent. I think if you slowed down just a bit it would make things easier. I have to watch your videos with the closed caption on, and I actually find myself muting the volume as it is distracting how fast your cadence is, with little emotion or punctuation in your delivery. Just some feedback, you're obviously doing an amazing job and are an amazing content creator.
Scouts will get a points increase quick. i'm not gonna be foolish enough to mass buy them. Also yay, Bladeguards are back in a good place! Also wow, for like the last 5 years at least, Eliminators have been super super consistent with placing. It's pretty good to know that such a tacticool squad of marine snipers is always worth picking up, definitely makes me feel happy about painting mine.
I love tactical marines! But they are really getting replaced hard with the rules in 10th. It's get rid of them to push the new stuff in a really blatent way.
Tell that to the guy in yesterdays vid comments. Stating that marines are a horde army because someone has a viable firstborn list with 130 bodies. I’m sure you can do similar if you wanted!
They're all going to be pushed to legends, you might as well just accept it'll be primaris only at some point in the not too distant future and plan your purchases and projects accordingly. Them removing the word "primaris" from the packaging of their products for primaris models is a fairly clear indicator they don't intend for there to be a need to label the difference, because first born just won't be a thing for them to be differentiated from.
@@KolossusB Exactly. I'm not telling people they need to like it, but it's way past time for people to accept it. In fact I'd go so far as to say 90% of the peoples still whining about the primaris/firstborn situation wouldn't care a bit if GW had just called it a "refresh" rather than the Cowl/Guilliman lore thing.
@@JimH. I'm hoping they just rip off the bandaid soon. I'm fine losing all our firstborn infantry now that my Raven guard have their jumpy boys. I'd like to dedicate my old Rhino to my sisters if we never get them for primaris... But GW just holding it all up.
@@rain6353 I think losing the Rhino will be the worst part of the whole thing. Don't get me wrong, I still have my RTB-01 beakies kicking around; but they've been almost exclusively shelf-bound for over a decade now what with the newer mk 7 stuff and the subfaction-specific variant sculpts that simply look much nicer. The Rhinos and their variants though still do some serious work, and are nicely modular: a few 3d printed bits that replaced the honestly sad homebrew modeling attempt and one chassis can make any variant with the exception of the Vindicator. In addition to which, there is no floaty MLRS variant yet... and I dearly love my Whirlwinds. Perhaps the biggest issue is that I simply do not like the way the Repulsor looks. Way too damned many guns, and it's supposed to be able to hold troops, too? I really wish somebody in management took away the modelers' amphetamines the month they came up with that design. The El Camino - err, Impulsor - is decent, though. I can even get behind having an open rear deck since the troops it'll carry are already armored to a fare-thee-well; and the lack of a roof means it's a lot faster to bail out in an emergency.
There is almost something magical about a Land Raider Redeemer with flamestorm cannons shooting Overwatch. 12" 2d6+6 S6 AP-2 D2 ignores cover, torrent shots. Awesome!
@@HighlandPhoenix can you talk a little more like the most unlikeable redditor in history? jesus christ, dude, get of your high horse and join the rest of us in reality.
For real. Suppressors need their own plastic kit. I cannot find them unless I'm buying secondhand from the Vanguard box. Is their armor phobos or gravis? I think I'm thinking of the inceptors. Who I know CAN be in squads of 3 or 6. Very mean that GW cockblock autocannon spam and nothing else.
@@Lomhow They have gravis armor. And yes, they really should sell them standalone already. It's been long enough and it's the same thing they did to the Master of Possessions. I will never understand why they leave money on the table like that.
If GW would have left fall back and shoot on the tactical marines in addition to the combat squads, they would def compete better against intercessors. But no, Tacticals will be decent or good the moment GW feels desperate to sell them or at least futher boost their HH variants....
Ultramarines players have to ask themselves, do I want Guilliman or 10 Terminators! Guilliman really needs to get a points cut. All the hype GW use to make money with Primarchs, then they get overcosted.
If they lower his points any more then they have to lower Abaddons points as well. They are very close right now and Abaddon just does not have the durability G-Man has. The revive alone should make the points difference at least 50 points imho.
@mrheisenberg83 Abaddon gets to join a brick of 10 terminators though, anything that gets within 12in of Guilliman can shoot him (even if he's locked in combat) as he's a monster
I think GeeDub should combine the Phobos armored units like they did the various bolt rifles, but have them basically be infiltrators with a strategem that can be terror tactics.
I agree with most of these rankings, but I think the Vindicator is way too low. It easily belongs in tier 2, probably even tier 1; I think it's the biggest sleeper hit in the codex, especially ran in the Flamestorm detachment. For less than a Redemptor, you're getting 11 T11 wounds on something that's got a minimum 4 of some of the strongest ranged shots in all of Space Marines, while having an average threat range of 36" with Flamestorm. On top of all that, it can't even be tied up in melee; one of the only Blast weapons that has this advantage, and one of the best at that. Also, it's got very good synergy with post-nerf Oaths, since it mostly cares about hit rolls with its main gun and missile.
@@JimH. I mean you aren’t charging terminators I hope. But the LT with Perditions edge and the whole unit getting Sustained + Lethal + precision (Black Templars player) isn’t awful either.
@@jondoeslifestuff Your example is one specific army and investing more points (character plus enhancement) in an already bad unit for something that "isn't awful?" Sustained, lethal and precision hits on S4, AP0, D1 weapons still isn't good by any stretch of the imagination. Reivers don't do anything that some other unit doesn't do better. Their damage is terrible, their special rule isn't strong as battleshock simply isn't that great and in an edition that really favors shooting, 1 shot with each S4, AP-1, D1 isn't going to cut it. If you like them, go for it and have fun. But they're still bad.
I find running a techmarine in my Templars buddying up with my leviathan ends up one of two ways. My leviathan survives the entire game with 1-2 wounds taken by end of game, or an absolute heathen in melee and easily taking half the wounds off stuff like demon princes and blood letters.
My repulsor executioner one shot a libarian in terminator armor and in two shots killed the lion. I also field a vindicare assassin that one shot a captain in terminator armor
As a SM flyer enthusiast, I must say the Talons can put work in in a support role. BECAUSE aircraft and flyers are somewhat undervalued, their +1 to ground enemies on hit is great. hitting a lascannon or dev wounding assault cannon on 2's is not nothing imo!
I use the stormhawk consistently in my games against my tau buddy the anti fly keyword on most of it's gun works super well on just about all their vehicles. I refuse also to understand why it lost its hover keyword.
@@tastefulavenger Yeah I dont get that. With such a weak class of models already, I didnt think it needed to be -nerfed like that. Maybe that means theyll be working on aircraft and hover rules soon??
You have a very good list. You should do pretty well in most games. Casual and competitive. I would play as many casual games as possible to help get used to the ruleset. I've started playing in 8th edition. Sorry for the long reply. I'm a passionate nerd. Here's some stuff that I wish I had when I started playing 40k: A large enough dice pool. Sometimes some dice are angry and need time out. Sometimes you need 40+ dice in two hands, not because you can do that much damage, but because other people can. Also, it can be the highlight of a game session. Cheap laser pointers are awesome. There are very cheap laser pointers at pet stores. They are very good for seeing if units can target each other around awkward terrain pieces. Especially windows or ruined terrain. So many debates have been settled by a laser pointer. Get a measuring tape. Board game measuring sticks usually stop at 12 inches. Boltguns are the most generic weapon in the game, and they are 24 inches. What if a gun is 36 or 48 inches? A measuring tape makes life so much easier. I always carry 2 good quality measuring tapes. Like old carpentry/construction measuring tapes. Cheap quality measuring tapes will close on you at the worst moment, with your expensive models next to it. You don't want models damaged because of cheap measurement tools. Also, if I lose one I have a spare ready. If my opponent doesn't have one then I have one they can borrow. Having 2 can be good. TL;DR Acquire: Many dice. Laser pointers. Measuring tapes.
@@Lomhow thanks bro, I really apreciate that you take the Time to respond the question and also give some advices, I would do all the things you tell me since now, thank you again, I trully aprecciate it. Hope that my list give me some nice games
Always found them a bit mediocre aswell, the strength 5 unit wide just feels a bit "meh". I'd rather pay some more points for aggressors or terminators.
@criosom2368 yeah I've been playing against guard using black templars and the primaris crusader squads are much better against basically everything with lethal hits and weight of attacks. My opponent runs Leman Russes and a Rogal Dorn so a bunch of strength 5 attacks are basically useless.
@@criosom2368 S5 vs T5 sounds not all that bad. Give them a Chaplain for +1 to wound and you are golden. Just don't run them against vehicles, their role is against elite infantry.
@@mrheisenberg83 yeah, but as soon as you get to t6 infantry, like thunderkyn and earthguard, they just stop working. And most of my games are against said t6 infantry.
2:11 how is the “hammer fall” bunker not something you can deep strike and have it be firing anti infantry or anti tank shots? The thunder hawk is like the ice cream at McDonald’s; it doesn’t practically exist.
I really hope this book changes things up. I've played 5 games this month as marines, the only game I've won was a singular victory over another space marines list. Every game that isn't a mirror feels like you get less interesting/deadly stuff than your opponent and the only saving grace you have is OoM.
@@AriousArchaic Making him a leader was very... odd. He should have been a Lone Operative. Maybe when the Black Templar Codex rolls around sometime in the future...
But they can be! Regular phobos lieutenant gives them lethal hits and a free d6" move after shooting Deepstrike Shoot Move closer Charge Blend a backline sniper, gunline, or light infantry with an annoying character Now watch it break at -1 to BS rolls. Not bad for... 150 points is it now?
As a Tyranid player, I looki at this codex with disbelief. Each of their detachment are good/playable and they have so many tier 1/2 options, some of which are ridiculously priced. I guess there is going to be a huge point increase across the board soon but still, their detachment rules unlock so many super efficient combos. Meanwhile, the nids are getting a point nerf and rule nerf at every occasion.
Probably a consequence of people abusing the spore mine mechanic. Not saying it's fair, but that seemed to push their win rate higher than expected so GW does what GW does and nerfs the whole army instead of addressing the broken mechanic
Dude there's objectly only 3 good marines detachments(GTF,Firstorm, and Ironhead) the others are their for beer night games and poorly peforrming thematic games i.e Fist,Scars,and RG all who lack something super critical to be competent forces in 10th levithan style missions.
Oh where to begin... 1) No each of their detachments are not "good/playable," fully 4 out of the 7 suck. 2) "Tier 1" or "tier 2" for SM does not equal the same for other armies. If you doubt this, go look at Eldar. 3) Please tell us what units are "ridiculously priced" and should get a "huge point increase soon?" Because SM have had 2 points decreases already and still are high-end bad tier/low-end mediocre tier. Sorry GW shafted Tyranids yet again, but almost nothing you said in this comment is remotely accurate short of the "super efficient combos," all of which require specific detachments and multiple units.
@@JimH.Well it depends of your point of view. Obviously if your golden standard are eldars, yes you are right. But compare it to the only other army with a codex (nids) as it is the only valuable comparison and you can see my point. Unless you actually play Tyranid, you have no idea how bad the new detachments are: some have strats that can't actually be used in a useful manner because of the way they are writte, keywords restrictions or lack of units (Harverster, I am looking at you!). This is the yardstick against which I am comparing the SM codex to. Not the ever broken eldars. So you want a ridiculously priced unit? What about the scouts?
I really want to make assault centurions work. With the firestorm assault giving all their weapons assault, you can mostly bypass that 4" move. And that buff to their torrent weapons is *chefs kiss*
Company Heroes + Vulkan Hes'tan + Razorback is currently a staple in my list that is working great. Razorback takes them on the central objective, squad is equipped with torrent or melta weapons and you get 6 models with OC 21 that bring back 1 model per round, got 4 wounds and -1 to wound and reroll wounds with their guns. Great combo!
Librarians and Chaplains should be like Apothecaries and Ancients where they can also join Captains, CMs, and Lieutenants in leading the same unit…certainly Lieutenants…2 max characters still though…
I would like to respectfully disagree with the reiver placement. 10 of them with a Phobos Lieutenant deepstriking, D6” move after shooting towards something they want to charge, on average bringing you down to a 6” charge instead of a 9” one. 40 attacks from the reivers, with lethal hits and precision threatens any character without a 2+ save. Sometimes it’s just about volume of attacks.
Pedro is Tier 0 for one reason, and one reason only: the Bladeguard Blender. Step one: Take 6 Bladeguard, Pedro, and a Bladeguard Ancient in a First Company Detachment Step two: Give the Ancient the Imperium's Sword enhancement. Step three: Drop pod them in on your opponent's first turn via Rapid Ingress Step four: Have Pedro hype his boys up. Step five: Charge at the biggest threat in shanking distance Step six: Use the Ancient's ability and his enhancement. Step seven: Laugh as your opponent's favourite unit is obliterated by 42 S5 AP -2 D2 attacks with Oath of Moment re-rolls. Step eight: Keep laughing despite missing most of your teeth. Since you're running 1st Company Task Force, you're probably getting kerb stomped.
I don't think Drop Pods can come in turn 1 using rapid ingress. Their rule allows you to bring them in your turn 1, and rapid ingress allows you to bring a model in reserve but is limited to only on battle rounds where you are allowed to bring in reserves. Normally, you cannot bring in reserves on turn 1, hence why rapid ingress does not work there. The drop pod assault rule only allows you to bring in the drop pod on YOUR turn 1. So nothing saying you are allowed to bring it in on the opponent's turn 1, thus it would be limited by the mission and no rapid ingress. Probably could use a FAQ
@@TheMagicalPinatagive rapid ingress a re-read. It says you only CANT use the strat on a unit to allow it to arrive during a round it would normally NOT be allowed to Drop pod can come round 1, 2 or 3. Its allowed to do that. Therefore, Rapid ingress asks, can it normally come fown this turn? Yes.
This is provided the unit doesnt get obliterated from where it lands but yet still has the ability to move and charge into what it wants to Dont forget to add a lieutenant for lethal swings and more swings! 9 man bladeguard or go home
@@TheMagicalPinataThat is two comments in the same thread that you were wrong on. Read the rules on the Ancient, Chapter Master, and Lieutenant. They all explicitly say you can. Very clearly so.
Reivers should get a one-use, first time they charge ability. Keep their points as is, but let them get Sustained & Lethal the first time they charge. Even that out a lil by saying that if they're charged 1st, they lose that ability. Gives 'em a slight glass-hammer boost, forces them to work from the shadows... Really, any boost to their melee would be nice, tho.
Combine that with Reivers inflicting negative Leadership modifiers equivalent to the kills/wounds they make/inflict on that charge for some extra spice and they instantly have an interesting function.
Except you can just add a lieutenant and get the same effect AND get the free d6" move after firing. With him, they become more reliable for a deepstrike charge, with lethal hits and precision wiping out characters and light infantry
@@william9557 Very true, I didn't stop to think the Lt before posting... How about giving them Lance on the charge? Fits in with the fluff of stealthers who want to put fear into others on first reveal. Just any melee ability. Even running a Vanguard Spearhead, THE stealthy detachment, they're usually going to get looked past for Incursors, Infiltrators, Scouts, Eliminators. Reivers don't need anything to make them better than those choices, but they need something to make them viable choice by comparison. I only play casual lately, so I'll use them to fit a narrative list, but I'd imagine they're hard to spot in the competitive scene.
I just came home after a local tournament. I found this video randomly and thought that i would give it a go.. The thing is that i disagree with most of the top tier units.. i had 2 balistus dreads, a Redemptor Dread, an Executioner and a Lancer in my list. And i played Ironstorm. To be honest... they did nearly nothing most of the time... nice that the lance can shoot twice with it super lazor, but that doesnt help, when he cant see shit. Exact same with the Balistus. The Terrain rules that we have now makes it quite unlikely that all these units can realise their "potential"...
VERY NEW to 40k (haven't even played my first game) and I'm probably going Dark Angels. A lot of these are considered generic, and can go in any SM army, right? Aside from people like RG, etc?
So quick question about Redemptors "subtract 1 to damage" ability. If mine gets shot for 1 damage, does it not take damage? Because there's another rule that says damage can not be reduced below 1.
The "other rule" is likely a 40k rule. Which always persists, regardless of any other rule in the game. So no, you can't run an invincible redemptor that takes no damage
Reavers continue to disappoint me. They could have been an interested equivalent to Firstborn Assault Marines without just being 'Primaris, with the same gear'. Make the parachute and grapple standard. Let the later give +1 to move, advance, and charge. Up the melee to chainsword equivalents. Up the range to, I don't know, 2 shots with rapid 1, or 2 shots that get +1 str in half range. Allow up to 2 special weapons (Primaris Flamer, Plasma, or Melta) or Melee (Powersword or Powerfist, and a special Pistol) per 5. You get a fast way to deploy moderately effective shooting and melee wherever you want, that can also bring a handful of special weapons or some melee threat wherever you want it. They would be a bit glass cannon-y, but upping their damage, and giving them some moderate disruption abilities like they have, plus a little extra speed would go a long way.
You have to chose to hover before the battle even starts (it's in the declaring formations step), and if you hover, you lose the aircraft keyword and become very, very vulnerable to your opponent. A hovering Stormraven with models onboard would have a huge bullseye painted on it.
Sure, but doesn't mean they CAN'T start on the board. I am running all of mine in a homebrew Raven Guard chapter who I am considering using the Vanguard Spearhead for so they'd be a little safer with -1 to hit and cover at >12"@@flyingtam
@@guysolomon7904 Aircraft must start the game in Reserve, so can't deploy onto the table. That's in the core rulebook, pg. 53. If you declare your aircraft is hovering, it's no longer an aircraft, and unless you have some rule that says it can be placed in reserve, it has to be on the table. You can declare the unit to be in Strategic Reserves (core book, pg. 43), in which case it can't come on the table until turn two. You can't declare an aircraft to be in Strategic Reserves because it MUST be placed in Reserve. So the only way to keep a hovering aircraft off the table on turn one is to place it into Strategic Reserves. Missions can affect your use of Reserves or Strategic Reserves.
@@flyingtam all rules I'm aware of - but I can declare all 3 of the Space Marine flyers are hovering and start on the board is more my point as all 3 have the hover keyword and are therefore able to be declared hovering and started on the table without the aircraft perks.
You mentioned scouts being 55 points. And you are using the picture of the old classic scouts. I was under the impression the old scouts had been phased out... Are these going to be exactly the same for the new primaries scouts?
The picture is the old Scouts. New Scouts look almost exactly like the Black Templar Neophytes. They are a five model squad, all have the same weapon except one model that can take Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher or Sniper Rifle. Everyone else is either bolter, shotgun, or bolt pistol and close combat weapon. I was hoping for all Sniper Rifles, but... /shrug. 55 points for this unit is a steal, and I bet GW raises their points in the next balance pass.
Non-specific and general reply- Where ever you see Bladeguard, insert Sword Brethren. Most tanks jump up a tier because of the Black Templar bonuses and "free" multimelta. Impulsors become power houses with a 3+/5++/6+++ and the addition of the multi melta. Chaplain Grimaldus hands out 5+++ to his unit, and is good in melee. Helbrecht is is a pure beatstick, and he buffs 100% any close combat squad he attaches to. The Primaris Crusader Squad is Tier 1 because you can take 20 models in the unit, and then have Grimaldus and an Apothocary join the unit. Or Helbrecht. Either way, you have a fantastic unit that can do a lot of work for you. Great combo- The Emperor's Champion and Sword Brethren. The Champ does nothing for the Sword Bro's, but the Sword Bro's take the Champ to S-tier levels. A 20 model Primaris Crusader Squad with Grimaldus and a 20 model squad with Helbrecht will only cost you 690 points and it will wreck face, or at the very least, enable you to park on an objective and sit there the entire game.
I'd argue that Tacticals should be in Tier 3 because of their ability to combat squad and spread out more scoring units. Plus, it never says that each Combat squad has to have the one of the special weapons.
First ever time building a warhammer army… ordered a desolation squad. Should I cancel the order before it arrives at this point? Or still useful even w the huge points increased
They still have a role and are effective. Just expensive in points. Running them in the Raven Guard detatchment (Vanguard Spearhead) is perfect for them as they can shoot from farnaway, and the strat that gives them +1ap could be nasty into the right target.
It’s your first army. Use what makes you happy. Bought my first desolation squad after the pt increase to 200. They’re fun and give you a dynamic many units don’t have. I’d recommend krak over frags if you do glue them though. Sgt has the unique indirect gun as well
Company heroes should be able to join other units as additional bodyguard - like cryptothralls or court of the archon
If You attach cryptothralls as bodyguard to character to blob of 20 normal necrons - if You kill all cryptothralls can You resurect them if normal necrons are still alive?
@@allegroburunyes because the Cryptothralls become part of the Bodyguard Unit's Starting Strength.
They can with certain ones like Calgar.
That might make them more than just cool models to use as individual characters
Imagine Calgar in heros with a unit of aggressors and biologis. You are fast. Difficult to kill. And do to much damage
Suppose it does depend a lot on which detachment you're using. Unless its Reivers were talking about - they're terrible in everything 😂
A unit created to be a meme for eternity...
Got 15 models of reivers but never found a reason to play them. So sad because I love the models.
I actually found 10 with a lieutenant in deep strike allows to to deep strike then move d6 after shooting then charge. You can shred infantry unit with 50 attacks lethal hits and precision and take the point. It's not ideal but still playable.
@@giantorres3352 I created elite jump pack troops with reiver bodies. I think they have a certain paratrooper vibe for some reason. Maybe a bit unnecessary now that there are jump pack assault intercessors, but if you want to get a use out of them... 🙂
@@drewbg333im running the same style with mine, but only 5 men. Being able to DS, shoot, move and then have a reliable charge is great, precision and lethal hits is better. The shock test at a -1 is the cherry on top.
In the sallie styled detachment, they can shine with S5 pistols, and the free assault if they need to reposition.
Reivers have always been my favorite Primaris models, I will always take them no matter how hard GW drops the ball.
Mooooood
from the start our group house ruled an ap -1 on the knives - it actually makes them half decent to take
Yeah! don't let anyone tell you not to take the spooky trick or treat marines
They are really good to take against character heavy armies. My brother runs thousands sons. I infiltrated them and scouted them in and killed his Ahriman turn 1. Weakened him greatly.
Just had a fun game with the Reiver Lieutenant with Fear Made Manifest with Reivers and Hounds of Morakai in a First Company Task Force. Wow. Pretty fun! Made my enemy sorta salty with how they all interacted but was super fun! Making Enemy Models flee when they fail battleshock in an aura of 6" with - 1 LD PLUS Hounds getting to call out a unit a turn to take Battle Shock does surprising amount of work!
I’d need to see video evidence…😅
Sounds like a pretty cheesy way to play tbh...
@@HighlandPhoenixsounds kinda fun ngl
@@robsonezor the way they are meant to be used. It's a strategy
The entire shtick of reivers is morale. With their low stats people complain that battleshock doesn’t do enough to justify their use… this is exactly how they should be used, doesn’t seem cheesy at all.they have no other use lol
I'm just glad Auspex sounds as upset as I am about the bunker changers
@karsoban9150 almost has to be one of the rules writers lost to him. He's the only guy I've seen even attempt using them
I was about to buy a second one but couldn't find it. I was planning on overwathching ten times with two of them, a pair of fire strike servoturrets, and an eversor assassin.
Favourite combo right now is Gravis captain with artificer armor, t6 6W, 2+, 4++, 5++ half damage absolute brick/fridge of a model for like 90 or so pts.
You had me at "Gravis Captain."
Now thats a brick shithouse
GW really needs to decide if they’re going to keep the rhino or not. Limiting it to the ever-decreasing population of firstborn is frustrating.
For real. We need Space Marines to just be Space Marines. As soon as I saw the "Tacticus" keyword, I knew nothing really changed.
Especially crazy because Chaos get to use Rhinos for their normal infantry even though they're Primaris truescale.
The answer to that is, "Until we phase out the firstborn model kits, then the Rhino goes bye bye". We all know it's coming.
They have decided against firstborn and firstborn things. the Repulsor/Implusor is the new Rhino.🤷♂
@@OGXenos Plus they have horns or horned helmets on their heads that are a foot tall lol. Rubrics and Khorne Berzerkers are 15% helmet but they fit. 😂
Why doesn’t the Bladeguard Ancient have a ‘Blade’ yet…? 🤷♂️Please just make it an option GW and we'll all stick our own blades onto the model!!!
Too busy holding that banner I guess.
And his.. hand?
That an Apothecary can't join the Company of Heroes is an *absolute* tragedy.
It has to be an oversight.
I love my Vindicator but it's so Orky in damage output that tier 3 is the perfect location for it. One round it might get 1 wound in, another it might get 15 and one shot something. Kinds nice to see everything I have I tier 3 and above though.
Thanks for the vid you are one of my fav. 40k channels on youtube
Ow that's fast! You really pump these vids out. Thank you
I feel 6 centurions devestators in vanguard are pretty solid. Redeplyoing, -1 to hit and cover
For sure, AoW brought my attention to this.
Good target for the strat for +1 to hit and ap
Same for assault centurions in firestorm assault. Their torrent weapons get a buff AND assault. So they go from 4" move to 5"-10" move. Way better.
Having a lot of fun using the assault intercessors. Bolt pistols at 18" and super nice objective bonus.
I’d rate the brutalist draw bit higher due to his ability I like to call “free worse tank shock” that can be stacked with regular tank shock. I like to talk this up to my opponent and run him up the middle of the board as a big distraction as he runs in a straight like at a what ever is the scariest thing my opponent has. Averaging about 7 mortals off just that charge plus his melee, if you run him with the claws it’s quite scary.
A giant coffin with knife hands really wants to give you a hug!
I see why storm hawk and talon are so low but stormraven is massively stronger and a amazing transport
I just looked into them because of this comment. You're absolutely correct. Technically I could put 10 infernus and a leader plus a redemptor into the stormraven and fly them directly mid objective. That's very strong.
@@SSPENGUIN1 That is literally what I do haha. Also their FREE hurricane bolters at S5 are gross. 24 shots with twin-linked
@TheMagicalPinata 6 aggressors, a redemptor dreadnought brought to midfield is awesome. I will be using this for sure.
@@SSPENGUIN1 Nah 10 infernus with a captain to use the devastating wounds strat that is 2cp Free
@@TheMagicalPinata forgot about that strat.
Suppressors need a better ability. Only making a unit that they hit have a worse hit roll is just sad. A barbgaunt like ability would make sense and allowing them to overwatch if it the marked target made a move. Pinning them in place makes sense.
Or if their cannons got BS 3+, and S9 and 3 Damage like all the other cannons. Then their special ability would be a nice little bonus instead of the only reason for their existence. Bigger squad size so they could actually have some benefit from strats would also be good.
Barbguant style movement debuff would definitely make them playable.
@aheroforfun6401 I think that having them just be a damage dealer is too much for their movement. Making them too fast with high power is too well. Having a BS of 4 would be nice if the overwatch ability was that. They would make a good support that way. Being able to move to then pin the enemy on a 4 up, or stay in one spot so their overwatch becomes a 3 up.
@musicalcharge also fits their name. It keeps the enemy pinned down due to their suppression. Would make them a good support peice which seems to be their designed purpose.
@@musicalchargein 9th they prevented the enemy unit from overwatching
I’m glad that I bought my Reaper, Repulsor, and Repulsor Executioner back in 9e when they were in-stock (and $$ cheaper), because now they’re actually good in 10e, they’re sold out everywhere and no LGS I’ve contacted knows when or if they’ll be restocked.
I bought my SM vehicles purely for Rule of Cool. They weren’t very powerful in those days but they looked awesome on the table!
Still plenty available in the UK. My local GW stores have them. Aggressors however... think I ordered the last ones in the country from FLG store 100s of miles away
Perfect to listen to while i inhale primer and finally un-gray my space marines.
Vanguard vets with jump packs are a lot more useful in a Firestorm detachment, especially with a captain in tow. Vulkan points at a squad, your opponent looks at your 5 man infernus squad then you deep strike in an extra 11D6 flamer shots with devastating wounds
Hand flamers op! I have mine kitted with a mix of shields and grav pistols though.
Salamanderrrrrsss
I love eliminators in deathwatch with the hellfire round strat giving them +2 to wound precision sniped out leaders no problem stick a Libby with them they become extremely difficult to deal with
They have to continuously move though. Dev wounds if they sit still don't allow them to benefit from SIA
@@AriousArchaic that’s the point they get to move shoot move and can’t be targeted outside 12 perfect they don’t need dev wounds bro.
RIP reivers. At the moment the only thing theyre good at is piling on an objective with a Phobos LT to retake it, but now that we have Jump Intercessors theres just no reason to use them (you could also argue the old reason was shaky at best).
I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate GW on a rare feat: making Reivers dogshit for THREE consecutive editions. That's impressive... 🙄
@JimH. all they have to do is make battleshock more impactful and suddenly reivers become the best objective contesting unit space marines have. Until then? 💩
Being new and after spending loads of time contemplating a list to find that all but 2 units I've decided to use is in your T1 is pretty satisfying!
So very interesting question I have. The reivers and photos lieutenant have deep strike and the Phobos lt. Can move a unit d6 inches after shooting, so wouldn't that make then a good unit for basically guaranteeing a charge from deep strike on a squishy unit or perhaps a lone operative?
in a sense, yes, but other units do it better while having better stat lines.
I hate what GW did to the Apothecary in 10e - they NERFED it so hard - that’s why it’s in Tier3 now.
The Apothecary can only revive models from the unit it’s attached to, and it can only attach to units with 2W models. The Apothecary can’t heal any models (I know, that’s less important because of the 2W model restriction), only revive 1 dead model per turn, and it can’t be a Character! That situation would be exceedingly rare to begin with, but having it ruled out entirely is BS.
The Apothecary should revive D3 number of models in a unit 2W models, or revive/heal D3 wounds for models with 3 or more Wounds. Also, the Apothecary should have the Lone Operative keyword and if it is not attached to a unit, it can revive models from any unit within 3-6” range.
I suspect that GW deliberately made the Apothecary garbage in 10e to encourage players to buy and use the Apothecary Biologus instead - which is inexplicably an “apothecary” that cannot heal OR revive!
I’d rather the Apothecary Biologus have all the normal Apothecary’s abilities plus its Objective Control ability and Gravis Armour, and cost 90-100 points, rather than the current version giving Lethal Hits for only 55 points. Alternatively, the Biologus’ abilities should be flipped so that after it kills an enemy model, it grants Lethal Hits to the unit; the explanation being that it examined the enemy’s remains, understands how to kill it more effectively, and passed that information to its unit. The OC 9 after killing an enemy makes no sense!
It’s so frustrating because other factions in 10e have Healers that function the same as the past. GW only screwed with the Space Marines’ Apothecary for inexplicable reasons.
Best place for Apothecary's these days, imo, is if they are put into Sword Brethren units. Sword Brethren are a 3W unit that are arguable the best melee unit for Space Marines in any faction. An Apothecary wouldn't be the very best character to attach to them, but they aren't the worse either
@@Mike-8404 Yes, the Apothecary can lead a Sword Brethren squad because of the Attached Unit rule that grants them the same leaders as an Intercessor squad. I believe Sword Brethren are the sole exception to the 10e Apothecary’s no-3W-model restriction.
One of the few times that Black Templars catch a break regarding unit restrictions.
I know people complain about Space Marines getting all the releases, but I’d like to see a Tau tidewall-type range based on the Hammerfall’s aesthetics. Come on, GW. Give the VII some love.
I feel the Stormraven Gunship should be in tier 3 rather than 4 as it has decent utility as a transport and reasonably durable as a flyer with good fire power for the points.
Thanks I am new to Warhammer and it seems so complicated so your videos are helpful
Do you think Outriders have more play with Firestorm? Since they auto-advance 6" and get Assault on their guns, letting them always move 18" to get those guns to where they need to be? Throw in an ATV and now you'll always be moving 18" to bring it's Str. 10 Multi-Melta into optimal threat range.
A bunch of storm bolters aren’t going to do anything. 2 melta shots will probably not do anything either? The outriders will just be better in the white scar detachment.
@@pine_appole7837 Fair enough
In a vehicle meta, they aren't good. Don't get me wrong, they have synergy - but for the points there are better units in Firestorm. Mostly because while they synergize with the detachment, they don't synergize with any of the detachment strats. There's something to be said for using a MSU for actions (because they go places and have Assault), but Inceptors DS and go through walls, so at that point the only argument is 95pts vs 110pts. If you don't have 15pts to spare, I could see Outriders making the cut.
@@Mythralblade04 That makes sense.
Basically you're using Outiders and the ATV to steal objectives and harass weaker units. Any thoughts that they're going to be a damage dealer unit will lead to disappointment - at least until GW lets the sgt take a melee upgrade. In fact they may be the only squad in SM with a sgt. who can't. Such are the ways of GW...
Sadly Tactical Squad in tier 4 but at least devastator squad is in * -3rd- tier 2
Edit : after rewatch devastator squad located in tier 2 22:04
Firstborn are meant to disappear, we no longer have the primaris keyword on new units
Well yes, but also there is tacticus now
I looked for such video one hour ago. That's a miracle.
I think reivers do have a use in the Vanguard detachment. They are Phobos deep strikers, and fairly inexpensive. 2 units can be targeted by a single use of guerilla tactics, could be good for secondary objective shenanigans
Your content is amazing. I'm brand new to Warhammer so I've been making my way through your videos. Thanks so much for making these. If you want some feed back keep reading, if not no problem keep up the great work. I would say as a North American, I find it hard to follow along with your speed/accent. I think if you slowed down just a bit it would make things easier. I have to watch your videos with the closed caption on, and I actually find myself muting the volume as it is distracting how fast your cadence is, with little emotion or punctuation in your delivery. Just some feedback, you're obviously doing an amazing job and are an amazing content creator.
I think the only 3W unit apothecaries can join is the sword brethren
That means its probably a design feature. Very annoying
Scouts will get a points increase quick. i'm not gonna be foolish enough to mass buy them. Also yay, Bladeguards are back in a good place!
Also wow, for like the last 5 years at least, Eliminators have been super super consistent with placing. It's pretty good to know that such a tacticool squad of marine snipers is always worth picking up, definitely makes me feel happy about painting mine.
I love tactical marines! But they are really getting replaced hard with the rules in 10th. It's get rid of them to push the new stuff in a really blatent way.
Tell that to the guy in yesterdays vid comments. Stating that marines are a horde army because someone has a viable firstborn list with 130 bodies. I’m sure you can do similar if you wanted!
They're all going to be pushed to legends, you might as well just accept it'll be primaris only at some point in the not too distant future and plan your purchases and projects accordingly. Them removing the word "primaris" from the packaging of their products for primaris models is a fairly clear indicator they don't intend for there to be a need to label the difference, because first born just won't be a thing for them to be differentiated from.
@@KolossusB Exactly. I'm not telling people they need to like it, but it's way past time for people to accept it. In fact I'd go so far as to say 90% of the peoples still whining about the primaris/firstborn situation wouldn't care a bit if GW had just called it a "refresh" rather than the Cowl/Guilliman lore thing.
@@JimH. I'm hoping they just rip off the bandaid soon. I'm fine losing all our firstborn infantry now that my Raven guard have their jumpy boys. I'd like to dedicate my old Rhino to my sisters if we never get them for primaris... But GW just holding it all up.
@@rain6353 I think losing the Rhino will be the worst part of the whole thing. Don't get me wrong, I still have my RTB-01 beakies kicking around; but they've been almost exclusively shelf-bound for over a decade now what with the newer mk 7 stuff and the subfaction-specific variant sculpts that simply look much nicer. The Rhinos and their variants though still do some serious work, and are nicely modular: a few 3d printed bits that replaced the honestly sad homebrew modeling attempt and one chassis can make any variant with the exception of the Vindicator. In addition to which, there is no floaty MLRS variant yet... and I dearly love my Whirlwinds.
Perhaps the biggest issue is that I simply do not like the way the Repulsor looks. Way too damned many guns, and it's supposed to be able to hold troops, too? I really wish somebody in management took away the modelers' amphetamines the month they came up with that design. The El Camino - err, Impulsor - is decent, though. I can even get behind having an open rear deck since the troops it'll carry are already armored to a fare-thee-well; and the lack of a roof means it's a lot faster to bail out in an emergency.
Land raiders in tier 1 on this channel. Never thought I would live to see the day.
There is almost something magical about a Land Raider Redeemer with flamestorm cannons shooting Overwatch. 12" 2d6+6 S6 AP-2 D2 ignores cover, torrent shots. Awesome!
My Abo and following was long overdue. Always great content, thanks. Keep it up
Suppressors need to be allowed in units of 6, and count as Phobos…! Which includes GW remodeling them to be Phobos at this point...!
are you just saying things to fill this comment section? jesus christ, dude.
@@mrheisenberg83 Each comment stands on merit...clearly you are struggling to read the content and are just counting commenters...
@@HighlandPhoenix can you talk a little more like the most unlikeable redditor in history? jesus christ, dude, get of your high horse and join the rest of us in reality.
For real. Suppressors need their own plastic kit. I cannot find them unless I'm buying secondhand from the Vanguard box.
Is their armor phobos or gravis? I think I'm thinking of the inceptors. Who I know CAN be in squads of 3 or 6. Very mean that GW cockblock autocannon spam and nothing else.
@@Lomhow They have gravis armor. And yes, they really should sell them standalone already. It's been long enough and it's the same thing they did to the Master of Possessions. I will never understand why they leave money on the table like that.
If GW would have left fall back and shoot on the tactical marines in addition to the combat squads, they would def compete better against intercessors. But no, Tacticals will be decent or good the moment GW feels desperate to sell them or at least futher boost their HH variants....
Would you be able to do this for Chapter specific units by any chance?
I quite like my storm raven, dropping 5 terminators and a character and an entire redemptor dreadnought is quite the jumpscare of fire power
Apothecaries are fun with hellblasters.
At least there's no tier 0 this time. T-shirt Cannon Marines can get in the bin.
You could still delete half of these units from the game without anyone shedding a tear.
Ultramarines players have to ask themselves, do I want Guilliman or 10 Terminators! Guilliman really needs to get a points cut. All the hype GW use to make money with Primarchs, then they get overcosted.
If they lower his points any more then they have to lower Abaddons points as well. They are very close right now and Abaddon just does not have the durability G-Man has. The revive alone should make the points difference at least 50 points imho.
@mrheisenberg83 Abaddon gets to join a brick of 10 terminators though, anything that gets within 12in of Guilliman can shoot him (even if he's locked in combat) as he's a monster
@@primarchvulkan5097 Abby and the termies cost close to 700 points together though. That makes a world of difference in my book.
I think GeeDub should combine the Phobos armored units like they did the various bolt rifles, but have them basically be infiltrators with a strategem that can be terror tactics.
Company heroes is a shame. They are such cool models
I agree with most of these rankings, but I think the Vindicator is way too low. It easily belongs in tier 2, probably even tier 1; I think it's the biggest sleeper hit in the codex, especially ran in the Flamestorm detachment. For less than a Redemptor, you're getting 11 T11 wounds on something that's got a minimum 4 of some of the strongest ranged shots in all of Space Marines, while having an average threat range of 36" with Flamestorm. On top of all that, it can't even be tied up in melee; one of the only Blast weapons that has this advantage, and one of the best at that. Also, it's got very good synergy with post-nerf Oaths, since it mostly cares about hit rolls with its main gun and missile.
Everyone still sleeping on the Reivers + LT in Phobos Deepstrike + Shoot and fade then Charge.
Always do. I love the lil guys.
With S4, AP 0, D1 weapons. No, they still suck.
@@JimH. I mean you aren’t charging terminators I hope. But the LT with Perditions edge and the whole unit getting Sustained + Lethal + precision (Black Templars player) isn’t awful either.
@@jondoeslifestuff Your example is one specific army and investing more points (character plus enhancement) in an already bad unit for something that "isn't awful?" Sustained, lethal and precision hits on S4, AP0, D1 weapons still isn't good by any stretch of the imagination. Reivers don't do anything that some other unit doesn't do better. Their damage is terrible, their special rule isn't strong as battleshock simply isn't that great and in an edition that really favors shooting, 1 shot with each S4, AP-1, D1 isn't going to cut it. If you like them, go for it and have fun. But they're still bad.
I find running a techmarine in my Templars buddying up with my leviathan ends up one of two ways. My leviathan survives the entire game with 1-2 wounds taken by end of game, or an absolute heathen in melee and easily taking half the wounds off stuff like demon princes and blood letters.
Salamanders are eating well tonight
My repulsor executioner one shot a libarian in terminator armor and in two shots killed the lion. I also field a vindicare assassin that one shot a captain in terminator armor
As a SM flyer enthusiast, I must say the Talons can put work in in a support role. BECAUSE aircraft and flyers are somewhat undervalued, their +1 to ground enemies on hit is great. hitting a lascannon or dev wounding assault cannon on 2's is not nothing imo!
I use the stormhawk consistently in my games against my tau buddy the anti fly keyword on most of it's gun works super well on just about all their vehicles. I refuse also to understand why it lost its hover keyword.
@@tastefulavenger Yeah I dont get that. With such a weak class of models already, I didnt think it needed to be -nerfed like that. Maybe that means theyll be working on aircraft and hover rules soon??
Hi, I'm trying to make my first 2k list, i would like to know what do you people think about it, thanks
CHARACTERS
Primaris Apothecary (60 points)
• 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Reductor pistol
• Enhancement: Artificer Armour
Primaris Lieutenant (95 points)
• 1x Bolt Pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma pistol
• Enhancement: Bolter Discipline
Roboute Guilliman (360 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Emperor’s Sword
1x Hand of Dominion
OTHER DATASHEETS
Gladiator Lancer (160 points)
• 1x Armoured hull
2x Fragstorm grenade launcher
1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Ironhail heavy stubber
1x Lancer laser destroyer
Hellblaster Squad (250 points)
• 1x Hellblaster Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma incinerator
1x Plasma pistol
• 9x Hellblaster
• 9x Close combat weapon
9x Plasma incinerator
9x Plasma pistol
Infernus Squad (170 points)
• 1x Infernus Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Pyreblaster
• 9x Infernus Marine
• 9x Bolt pistol
9x Close combat weapon
9x Pyreblaster
Infiltrator Squad (100 points)
• 1x Infiltrator Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Marksman bolt carbine
• 4x Infiltrator
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
1x Helix Gauntlet
1x Infiltrator Comms Array
4x Marksman bolt carbine
Infiltrator Squad (100 points)
• 1x Infiltrator Sergeant
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Marksman bolt carbine
• 4x Infiltrator
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
1x Helix Gauntlet
1x Infiltrator Comms Array
4x Marksman bolt carbine
Redemptor Dreadnought (200 points)
• 1x Heavy flamer
1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Macro plasma incinerator
1x Redemptor fist
1x Twin fragstorm grenade launcher
Repulsor Executioner (220 points)
• 1x Armoured hull
1x Heavy onslaught gatling cannon
1x Macro plasma incinerator
1x Repulsor Executioner defensive array
1x Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubber
1x Twin heavy bolter
Sternguard Veteran Squad (100 points)
• 1x Sternguard Veteran Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Sternguard bolt pistol
1x Sternguard bolt rifle
• 4x Sternguard Veteran
• 4x Close combat weapon
4x Sternguard bolt pistol
3x Sternguard bolt rifle
1x Sternguard heavy bolter
Terminator Squad (185 points)
• 1x Terminator Sergeant
• 1x Power weapon
1x Storm bolter
• 4x Terminator
• 1x Assault cannon
4x Chainfist
3x Storm bolter
You have a very good list. You should do pretty well in most games. Casual and competitive.
I would play as many casual games as possible to help get used to the ruleset.
I've started playing in 8th edition. Sorry for the long reply. I'm a passionate nerd. Here's some stuff that I wish I had when I started playing 40k:
A large enough dice pool. Sometimes some dice are angry and need time out. Sometimes you need 40+ dice in two hands, not because you can do that much damage, but because other people can. Also, it can be the highlight of a game session.
Cheap laser pointers are awesome. There are very cheap laser pointers at pet stores. They are very good for seeing if units can target each other around awkward terrain pieces. Especially windows or ruined terrain. So many debates have been settled by a laser pointer.
Get a measuring tape. Board game measuring sticks usually stop at 12 inches. Boltguns are the most generic weapon in the game, and they are 24 inches. What if a gun is 36 or 48 inches? A measuring tape makes life so much easier.
I always carry 2 good quality measuring tapes. Like old carpentry/construction measuring tapes. Cheap quality measuring tapes will close on you at the worst moment, with your expensive models next to it. You don't want models damaged because of cheap measurement tools. Also, if I lose one I have a spare ready. If my opponent doesn't have one then I have one they can borrow. Having 2 can be good.
TL;DR Acquire: Many dice. Laser pointers. Measuring tapes.
@@Lomhow thanks bro, I really apreciate that you take the Time to respond the question and also give some advices, I would do all the things you tell me since now, thank you again, I trully aprecciate it.
Hope that my list give me some nice games
I just wish they put the Lion into the normal Marine codex as well
Primarchs should be able to go with any imperial force
Bladeguard that high? Tried them a bunch but didn't get many results.
Always found them a bit mediocre aswell, the strength 5 unit wide just feels a bit "meh". I'd rather pay some more points for aggressors or terminators.
@@garrus1985 My exact same thoughts! Though my experience is a bit skewed as I usually play against votann, where their lower T is 5.
@criosom2368 yeah I've been playing against guard using black templars and the primaris crusader squads are much better against basically everything with lethal hits and weight of attacks. My opponent runs Leman Russes and a Rogal Dorn so a bunch of strength 5 attacks are basically useless.
@@criosom2368 S5 vs T5 sounds not all that bad. Give them a Chaplain for +1 to wound and you are golden. Just don't run them against vehicles, their role is against elite infantry.
@@mrheisenberg83 yeah, but as soon as you get to t6 infantry, like thunderkyn and earthguard, they just stop working. And most of my games are against said t6 infantry.
2:11 how is the “hammer fall” bunker not something you can deep strike and have it be firing anti infantry or anti tank shots?
The thunder hawk is like the ice cream at McDonald’s; it doesn’t practically exist.
Praying that reivers get some love at some point
I really hope this book changes things up. I've played 5 games this month as marines, the only game I've won was a singular victory over another space marines list. Every game that isn't a mirror feels like you get less interesting/deadly stuff than your opponent and the only saving grace you have is OoM.
Superb video. So good that I'm willing to overlook your American pronunciation of 'lieutenant' 😉😆
Is the emperor’s champion good?
In a unit of Sword Brethren, he is Tier 1 for sure. Anywhere else... maybe Tier 2.
He alright, they need to give him lone operative or fights first. It's what he's meant to do in lore. 🤷♂️
@@AriousArchaic Making him a leader was very... odd. He should have been a Lone Operative. Maybe when the Black Templar Codex rolls around sometime in the future...
Maybe some day riever squads will be good...
But they can be!
Regular phobos lieutenant gives them lethal hits and a free d6" move after shooting
Deepstrike
Shoot
Move closer
Charge
Blend a backline sniper, gunline, or light infantry with an annoying character
Now watch it break at -1 to BS rolls. Not bad for... 150 points is it now?
Same use as prior, people just refuse to see it because the internet people told them otherwise.
@@william9557 All with S4, AP 0, D1 attacks. No, they're still bad and have been for 3 consecutive editions.
With GW discontinuing the Scout Squad box what are people using as models instead? New to the game and would like to use them .
As a Tyranid player, I looki at this codex with disbelief. Each of their detachment are good/playable and they have so many tier 1/2 options, some of which are ridiculously priced. I guess there is going to be a huge point increase across the board soon but still, their detachment rules unlock so many super efficient combos. Meanwhile, the nids are getting a point nerf and rule nerf at every occasion.
Probably a consequence of people abusing the spore mine mechanic. Not saying it's fair, but that seemed to push their win rate higher than expected so GW does what GW does and nerfs the whole army instead of addressing the broken mechanic
Dude there's objectly only 3 good marines detachments(GTF,Firstorm, and Ironhead) the others are their for beer night games and poorly peforrming thematic games i.e Fist,Scars,and RG all who lack something super critical to be competent forces in 10th levithan style missions.
Oh where to begin... 1) No each of their detachments are not "good/playable," fully 4 out of the 7 suck. 2) "Tier 1" or "tier 2" for SM does not equal the same for other armies. If you doubt this, go look at Eldar. 3) Please tell us what units are "ridiculously priced" and should get a "huge point increase soon?" Because SM have had 2 points decreases already and still are high-end bad tier/low-end mediocre tier. Sorry GW shafted Tyranids yet again, but almost nothing you said in this comment is remotely accurate short of the "super efficient combos," all of which require specific detachments and multiple units.
@@JimH.Well it depends of your point of view. Obviously if your golden standard are eldars, yes you are right. But compare it to the only other army with a codex (nids) as it is the only valuable comparison and you can see my point. Unless you actually play Tyranid, you have no idea how bad the new detachments are: some have strats that can't actually be used in a useful manner because of the way they are writte, keywords restrictions or lack of units (Harverster, I am looking at you!). This is the yardstick against which I am comparing the SM codex to. Not the ever broken eldars. So you want a ridiculously priced unit? What about the scouts?
did i miss contemptor dreadnought?
It's a Legends model now. Sorry.
I really want to make assault centurions work. With the firestorm assault giving all their weapons assault, you can mostly bypass that 4" move. And that buff to their torrent weapons is *chefs kiss*
Uriel ventris can deepstrike the whole squad in, if ultramarines is your forte.
You just pay 85 for a marine thats a droppod
@william9557 salamanders. Although technically as long as I take out my unique guys, I can be a green ultramarine successor lol
Company Heroes + Vulkan Hes'tan + Razorback is currently a staple in my list that is working great. Razorback takes them on the central objective, squad is equipped with torrent or melta weapons and you get 6 models with OC 21 that bring back 1 model per round, got 4 wounds and -1 to wound and reroll wounds with their guns. Great combo!
their is no longer apothecaries in company heroes
@gurvan1548 but an apothecary can join a squad that already has a captain :)
Can company heroes go in a razorback? They aren't 1st born
@@charliebone538 they don't wear one of the special armours so at least until now, yes :)
Company heroes have the Tacticus keyword and can’t ride in the razorback sadly
Reivers could use some additional love for sure.
Why they do tor like that. Dang. Was so pumped for the 10 man heavy with him. Back to the drawing board
Feirros makes them pretty tanky. Put a Redemptor next to him and walk towards an mission marker.
@@_Bayul I was thinking gravis apothecary with the architect of war ability, might work good same results I'm hoping
Librarians and Chaplains should be like Apothecaries and Ancients where they can also join Captains, CMs, and Lieutenants in leading the same unit…certainly Lieutenants…2 max characters still though…
How about Desolation Squad? Can't see them in there.
Where was the new captain with jump pack? I must have missed it.
I would like to respectfully disagree with the reiver placement. 10 of them with a Phobos Lieutenant deepstriking, D6” move after shooting towards something they want to charge, on average bringing you down to a 6” charge instead of a 9” one. 40 attacks from the reivers, with lethal hits and precision threatens any character without a 2+ save. Sometimes it’s just about volume of attacks.
How would you rate the Falchion? Like in what tier, not considering it isn't that balanced
Pedro is Tier 0 for one reason, and one reason only: the Bladeguard Blender.
Step one: Take 6 Bladeguard, Pedro, and a Bladeguard Ancient in a First Company Detachment
Step two: Give the Ancient the Imperium's Sword enhancement.
Step three: Drop pod them in on your opponent's first turn via Rapid Ingress
Step four: Have Pedro hype his boys up.
Step five: Charge at the biggest threat in shanking distance
Step six: Use the Ancient's ability and his enhancement.
Step seven: Laugh as your opponent's favourite unit is obliterated by 42 S5 AP -2 D2 attacks with Oath of Moment re-rolls.
Step eight: Keep laughing despite missing most of your teeth. Since you're running 1st Company Task Force, you're probably getting kerb stomped.
I don't think Drop Pods can come in turn 1 using rapid ingress. Their rule allows you to bring them in your turn 1, and rapid ingress allows you to bring a model in reserve but is limited to only on battle rounds where you are allowed to bring in reserves.
Normally, you cannot bring in reserves on turn 1, hence why rapid ingress does not work there. The drop pod assault rule only allows you to bring in the drop pod on YOUR turn 1. So nothing saying you are allowed to bring it in on the opponent's turn 1, thus it would be limited by the mission and no rapid ingress.
Probably could use a FAQ
@@TheMagicalPinatagive rapid ingress a re-read.
It says you only CANT use the strat on a unit to allow it to arrive during a round it would normally NOT be allowed to
Drop pod can come round 1, 2 or 3. Its allowed to do that.
Therefore, Rapid ingress asks, can it normally come fown this turn? Yes.
This is provided the unit doesnt get obliterated from where it lands but yet still has the ability to move and charge into what it wants to
Dont forget to add a lieutenant for lethal swings and more swings! 9 man bladeguard or go home
@@william9557 you can't have Lt, Chapter master and ancient in the same unit.
@@TheMagicalPinataThat is two comments in the same thread that you were wrong on. Read the rules on the Ancient, Chapter Master, and Lieutenant. They all explicitly say you can. Very clearly so.
Adrax can attach to BGV now? Is that a recent change to his datasheet?
Is there a reason why no Dark Angel Unit is included ?
Because this review is for codex space marines, Dark Angels have a separate index
Dark Angels have their own codex. This video is only about the Space Marine codex coming out on the 14th of October.
I love Reivers, but I'm sad they suck on the table top.
What about captain with jump pack
Or are they the same as regular captains?
So are regular land speeder out then or did I miss it
Reivers should get a one-use, first time they charge ability. Keep their points as is, but let them get Sustained & Lethal the first time they charge. Even that out a lil by saying that if they're charged 1st, they lose that ability. Gives 'em a slight glass-hammer boost, forces them to work from the shadows... Really, any boost to their melee would be nice, tho.
Combine that with Reivers inflicting negative Leadership modifiers equivalent to the kills/wounds they make/inflict on that charge for some extra spice and they instantly have an interesting function.
Except you can just add a lieutenant and get the same effect AND get the free d6" move after firing. With him, they become more reliable for a deepstrike charge, with lethal hits and precision wiping out characters and light infantry
@@william9557 Very true, I didn't stop to think the Lt before posting... How about giving them Lance on the charge? Fits in with the fluff of stealthers who want to put fear into others on first reveal. Just any melee ability. Even running a Vanguard Spearhead, THE stealthy detachment, they're usually going to get looked past for Incursors, Infiltrators, Scouts, Eliminators. Reivers don't need anything to make them better than those choices, but they need something to make them viable choice by comparison. I only play casual lately, so I'll use them to fit a narrative list, but I'd imagine they're hard to spot in the competitive scene.
I just came home after a local tournament. I found this video randomly and thought that i would give it a go.. The thing is that i disagree with most of the top tier units.. i had 2 balistus dreads, a Redemptor Dread, an Executioner and a Lancer in my list. And i played Ironstorm. To be honest... they did nearly nothing most of the time... nice that the lance can shoot twice with it super lazor, but that doesnt help, when he cant see shit. Exact same with the Balistus. The Terrain rules that we have now makes it quite unlikely that all these units can realise their "potential"...
VERY NEW to 40k (haven't even played my first game) and I'm probably going Dark Angels. A lot of these are considered generic, and can go in any SM army, right? Aside from people like RG, etc?
Generic yes, it's the characters where some aren't and some are. You want units with the keywords: "ADEPTUS ASTARTES" "DARK ANGELS"
The bladeguard ancient is the same as the Ancient?
I have a question, on the new codex the cost in points of the desolation squad is 120*5 models and 200*10 models. is a mistake?
It’s not a mistake, it’s just outdated. The current points are those you find in the free pdf online
The app has them at 200 points for 5 and it's been that way for a while now so I'm gonna say yes it's a mistake.
@@wakito64 Where can I find a new codex?
@@walterpalermo1098you have the most up to date codex. The points in the codex are not useful. The pdf replaces that page.
Use the QR code in your book, or put your code in the back of the book into the 40K app which will let you look up points and build an army.
The ATV deserves to be a tier lower because of its ugliness.
Can GW PLEASE give Relievers ap-1!?!? For the love of God do SOMETHING!!! I love the models so much and phobos in general but godam do they suck.
So quick question about Redemptors "subtract 1 to damage" ability.
If mine gets shot for 1 damage, does it not take damage? Because there's another rule that says damage can not be reduced below 1.
Answered your own question. Damage can never be reduced to less than one.
it takes 1 damage, in the rules commentary under modifying characteristics.
The "other rule" is likely a 40k rule. Which always persists, regardless of any other rule in the game. So no, you can't run an invincible redemptor that takes no damage
So at face value the Ultramarine portion of the leviathan box is super cheesy considering everything included is on this T1 list🤔
IMO your ranking sounds about right to me, only thing is that Termis should be tier 2 at most, not tier 1... especially because of their ability nerf
Reavers continue to disappoint me. They could have been an interested equivalent to Firstborn Assault Marines without just being 'Primaris, with the same gear'. Make the parachute and grapple standard. Let the later give +1 to move, advance, and charge. Up the melee to chainsword equivalents. Up the range to, I don't know, 2 shots with rapid 1, or 2 shots that get +1 str in half range. Allow up to 2 special weapons (Primaris Flamer, Plasma, or Melta) or Melee (Powersword or Powerfist, and a special Pistol) per 5.
You get a fast way to deploy moderately effective shooting and melee wherever you want, that can also bring a handful of special weapons or some melee threat wherever you want it. They would be a bit glass cannon-y, but upping their damage, and giving them some moderate disruption abilities like they have, plus a little extra speed would go a long way.
Why does Stormhawk have to start off the board? All 3 Marine flyers have Hover so can start on the board no?
You have to chose to hover before the battle even starts (it's in the declaring formations step), and if you hover, you lose the aircraft keyword and become very, very vulnerable to your opponent. A hovering Stormraven with models onboard would have a huge bullseye painted on it.
Sure, but doesn't mean they CAN'T start on the board. I am running all of mine in a homebrew Raven Guard chapter who I am considering using the Vanguard Spearhead for so they'd be a little safer with -1 to hit and cover at >12"@@flyingtam
@@guysolomon7904 Aircraft must start the game in Reserve, so can't deploy onto the table. That's in the core rulebook, pg. 53. If you declare your aircraft is hovering, it's no longer an aircraft, and unless you have some rule that says it can be placed in reserve, it has to be on the table. You can declare the unit to be in Strategic Reserves (core book, pg. 43), in which case it can't come on the table until turn two. You can't declare an aircraft to be in Strategic Reserves because it MUST be placed in Reserve. So the only way to keep a hovering aircraft off the table on turn one is to place it into Strategic Reserves. Missions can affect your use of Reserves or Strategic Reserves.
@@flyingtam all rules I'm aware of - but I can declare all 3 of the Space Marine flyers are hovering and start on the board is more my point as all 3 have the hover keyword and are therefore able to be declared hovering and started on the table without the aircraft perks.
Please rate this bodyguard unit idea, blade guard ancient, blade guard veterans, and marneus calgar
You mentioned scouts being 55 points. And you are using the picture of the old classic scouts.
I was under the impression the old scouts had been phased out... Are these going to be exactly the same for the new primaries scouts?
The picture is the old Scouts. New Scouts look almost exactly like the Black Templar Neophytes. They are a five model squad, all have the same weapon except one model that can take Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher or Sniper Rifle. Everyone else is either bolter, shotgun, or bolt pistol and close combat weapon. I was hoping for all Sniper Rifles, but... /shrug. 55 points for this unit is a steal, and I bet GW raises their points in the next balance pass.
As someone who just started collecting BTs where would Primaris Crusaders fall under this or would the other chapters be their own video?
Each special chapter normally gets their own video.
Primaris Crusaders are teir 1 tho. Definitely worth having a unit or 2.
Non-specific and general reply-
Where ever you see Bladeguard, insert Sword Brethren. Most tanks jump up a tier because of the Black Templar bonuses and "free" multimelta. Impulsors become power houses with a 3+/5++/6+++ and the addition of the multi melta. Chaplain Grimaldus hands out 5+++ to his unit, and is good in melee. Helbrecht is is a pure beatstick, and he buffs 100% any close combat squad he attaches to. The Primaris Crusader Squad is Tier 1 because you can take 20 models in the unit, and then have Grimaldus and an Apothocary join the unit. Or Helbrecht. Either way, you have a fantastic unit that can do a lot of work for you. Great combo- The Emperor's Champion and Sword Brethren. The Champ does nothing for the Sword Bro's, but the Sword Bro's take the Champ to S-tier levels. A 20 model Primaris Crusader Squad with Grimaldus and a 20 model squad with Helbrecht will only cost you 690 points and it will wreck face, or at the very least, enable you to park on an objective and sit there the entire game.
I'd argue that Tacticals should be in Tier 3 because of their ability to combat squad and spread out more scoring units. Plus, it never says that each Combat squad has to have the one of the special weapons.
First ever time building a warhammer army… ordered a desolation squad. Should I cancel the order before it arrives at this point? Or still useful even w the huge points increased
They still have a role and are effective. Just expensive in points. Running them in the Raven Guard detatchment (Vanguard Spearhead) is perfect for them as they can shoot from farnaway, and the strat that gives them +1ap could be nasty into the right target.
It’s your first army. Use what makes you happy. Bought my first desolation squad after the pt increase to 200. They’re fun and give you a dynamic many units don’t have. I’d recommend krak over frags if you do glue them though. Sgt has the unique indirect gun as well
@@christopherramos6657 thank you!
@@rain6353 ok perfect, was a bit worried. Probably overthinking things still being this early into warhammer
Does Tiggy still give 4+ FNP against MW?
Wheres the Desolation Squad?