*Great **Latest.Bike** , good looking, good suspension and love the gearing. I've tested some bikes that were more then twice the price but not as good. Get lots of looks when riding.*
man, i feel like i’m the only one here, but float drives me CRAZY. just grabbed some speedplay pedals and it feels like i’m walking on ice the entire ride, so much so that i’m bashing my ankles on the crankset arm. going to see if i can trade them in and grab some Look/Ultegra pedals w/ 0 float. feels good to be locked in for me
I have 6º float Shimano and i love it. Float should only allow your feet to rotate naturally when needed. If correctly set up, your cleats will restrain your movements well enough that the float doesn't actually get to be fully used. Honestly, i cannot stand No Float cleats. IMO, they are an overuse injury ready to happen. Those should only be used for people with tons of experience and that had provisional fits done. Remember that on NO CIRCUMSTANCE was our body designed for repetitive movement without margin for flex and adjustments. Even treadmill runners suffer from overuse because they keep repeating the very same movement without variation thus overusing and stressing the same part of the body. Float is GOAT.
I have been riding Speedplay Zero's for nearly a year now. Previously used SPD-SL. The Zero's have up to 15 degrees float. The big advantages (and I mean BIG) of the Speedplays in terms of bike fit for me: 1) On top of the cleat positioning on the shoe, you have an extra 10mm of lateral adjustment to fine tune your q-factor. This can be done precisely and easily by remounting the housing on the plate without affecting anything else. 2) With some road shoes (including my Fizik's), if you need a wider pedal stance it is difficult to get the centreline of the cleat perpendicular to the longitudinal centreline of the shoe without the plate overhanging the shoe. With the Speedplays this doesn't matter. You can mount the cleat at an angle and use the float adjustment to compensate. 3) Speedplay sell a comprehensive range of accessories including extended axles, base plate extensions and wedges to allow for all sorts of adjustment in foot position. 4) Once fitted, you start with maximum float and then dial in the limiting screws over time until the set-up is perfect for you. You could do this with SPD's but it is WAY easier with the Speedplays. One turn of a screw will give you a fractional adjustment in float, either toe-in or heel-in. It would be almost impossible to tune your SPD's using such fine adjustments. There are some downsides of Speedplay Zero's, but not relating to fit, in my opinion. I am surprised more bike fitters don't recommend them.
I always buy the zero float cleats for my eggbeater pedals. Thosa that have float feel weird. The zero floats do wear a bit soon and they don't feel as fixed as they do at first but just right.
Hi, I understand there is variations in float, but what I want to know for myself when my Wahoo speedplay nano pedals turn up later today is how do I work out how much float I need to set for each foot. Many thanks in advance and much appreciated.
Always used to get some pain in my left knee which was definitely worse with no float. Right was always OK. Started with Time years ago which allowed some float but with some resistance but moved over to Speedplay in 2012 but still not quite right. Getting pedal extenders (to increase Q factor) helped some more as was finding my heel was very close to the crank which in itself was introducing some unnatural rotation to counter it but hopefully have finally cracked with also the maximum green arch support inside S works shoes. Have noticed I do like to waggle my feet a bit when riding from time to time and Speedplay permits this. Also if I go from the hoods to the drops or aerobars I feel my feet rotating slightly as I come forward as if my foot alignment is slightly different. Would be great am sure with no float and perfect body alignment but seems I am not such a person.
Tim Grose Cool that you've figured all that out. Sounds like you're on the right track. Incidentally the reason that it feels like your feet move differently when you're in the drops or aero may be because the more aggressive torso position may be pushing you close to your limit for pelvic anterior rotation and hip flexion which can affect how you sit on your saddle -- this may lead to variable foot position
I suggest that you try fixed cleats and do so with an open mind. I started with fixed cleats and have tried 2 different floating cleats (3 sets altogether) and 2 sets of fixed cleats. I just ordered my third pair of fixed cleats. The fixed cleats I wore out through long use, the floating cleats I removed after greater or lesser trial periods in disgust. The floating cleats were dangerous to health and safety IMHO, while the fixed cleats give better, more predictable feel, control and power. And, because they are not sliding around all over the place, you can actually work on getting the fit just right - indeed it is important that you do. I think it could be a real eye-opener for you ;) Float can allow sudden, unpredictable and sometimes violent movements of the heel and, sometimes the knee(s). Accelerating hard or standing pedaling on floating cleats, is risky IMO and will sometimes jolt your knees hard unexpectedly. Releasing with float is less positive, less predictable and less certain - that is my abiding memory of using the old, all-red Shimano floaters for the first time, having happily worn my fixed, black Shimano cleats into the ground. That and a monumental sapping of power.
i switched to assioma pedals.. i do not appreciate the cleats.. they are not as good as shimano.. the whole system is not as enjoyable to clip in and out with.. and my right cleat wanders no matter how tight i go because i have 3 wedges under the cleat. should i just try 2 wedges? (going against my bike fitter's advice). PLEASE I NEED HELP/ADVICE!
When I switched over to Shimano (pedal & shoes) from Look, I tried out the 6deg float (yellow) that came with the shoes. After that first set, I switched over to the blue cleats (1deg) and happy with them.
I switched to Speedplay zero from the SPD pedals around 2012 because my knee did not like be locked down with no allowed movement. The Speedplay Zero float was beneficial for me to help alleviate knee pain; it was not a fit issue either. When I ride my feet likes to move a lot. I like these pedals because I can control the float for the heel or toe (i.e. I like more float at the heel than at the toe). Plus, the double sided entry and light weight was an added benefit...in my opinion. I needed wedges and shims, too. It was the best move I made as far as cleats goes.
Hello Bike Fit Adviser! Tell me please your suggestions about moving cleats towards to the middle of the foot. Is its possible without modify/drilling curent road shoes. I'v reached my max and another 1-2cm backwards will be ideal for me, i realy need that.
FWIW, That rotation of the foot about the horizontal axis that you didn't have a good word for, may be called pronational rotation. Sounds like a name for a Big Bang Theory episode. Great videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Just returned a set of Speedplay Ultra Lites, did it because there was too much float and I had trouble getting out (25 degrees). Using the Zero's now and it's much better now, I'm able to adjust tem down to the 6 degrees that my old SPD's had (yes, I used MTB pedals on my road bike).
I'm new to road biking. Two questions: 1) Of the SPD-SL system, which (Red, Yellow, or Blue)is easier/faster to get out of? 2) Any tips on "how to fall" if you forget/fail to clip-out in time?
Hi Kevin. There is no practical difference to how quickly you get out of the pedal; your foot has to rotate the same amount. How to fall? Don't. Learn to unclip automatically, as an autonomic response to your desire to put a foot down. Lots of people will tell you that everyone always has a fall when they start using cleats! I think it's equal parts warning, macho teasing, and "I fell so you will too" :-) It is a matter of building muscle memory to pull your feet out of the cleats heel first, so that it's completely automatic. With appropriate practice there is no need to have a fall. I taught my then teenage daughter by having her ride her bike on an indoor trainer while watching TV, and calling "left foot!" or "right foot!" at random intervals until it was completely automatic. She has never fallen. If you don't have an indoor trainer you could just practice by leaning against a wall and taking your feet out 20 times on each side, then riding 50 meters at a time and taking your feet out before you stop. You'll find you have a favourite foot but practice with both feet. Cheers
I use mountain bike SPD for my road bike. Easier to get in and out as can clip in on either side. The regular road bike pedals always seemed to be upside down.
@@brianyoungberg9904 Yes, SPD are much easier to use. Road pedals take some getting used to. They are designed to hang with the front pointing upward, so your foot should be moving slightly forward as you clip in. When you have one foot clipped in and start pedaling, if you pedal too quickly then the other pedal will swing up, so when you try to clip in you get it upside down. So that first pedal stroke needs to be gentle, and the clip-in action should be smooth and well timed :-) It does take practice. And even then you can loose the rhythm and go back to feeling like a beginner. At which point relax and return to "slow, gentle, rhythm".
Good article, thank you, I was interested in the Speedplay pedals and thoughts, I have always ridden with Look pedals and switched to Speedplay around 4 months ago, more because I liked Speedplay walkable cleats, I never really experienced problems with the Look system, but I am certainly more comfortable on Speedplay, interestingly I have poor pelvic rotation and use a waveform saddle as a result of this, thus proving the theory of Speedplay being more suitable to riders with less flexibility, I have very little float, perhaps around the same as I had with the Look cleats, but never considered the yaw, or sideways movement from the Speedplay system, anyway the certainty work for myself, so much so I have switched all my bikes to Speedplay.
I know this video is about float but you didn't really give Speedplay a fair review. As long as you don't by the cheapest one they make. "Easy" or "Lite" I forget now as they changed the name. You can limit the float to zero: and unlike Looks and Shimano it doesn't require buying any new cleats. Though to be fair you'd still be saving money buying multiple pairs of cleats for them then buying Speedplays. I suppose there are two main reason to go with Speedplay over the others. Double sided entry is one and the float abilities as another.
I've just switched to Speedplay because I like the fact that they are so easy to clip in to without having to look down. However, I also like the limited float being a traditional SPD-SL red/yellow user and sometimes having ACL issues which means I can still ride even if I can't run. My question is, can you reduce or limit the float with Speedplay?
I ran into a problem related to float when switching from Crank Brothers to SPDs. I don't need a lot of float as part of my pedal stroke, but found that my toe-angle changed when going from seated to a sprinting position. With 6 degrees of float, setting the pedals up so that they did not twist my knees meant that they were at the limits of float when riding very aggressively. In my case, they actually came unclipped in a full-sprint resulting in a crash.
I used Shimano 105 with 6 degrees float for a couple of years and now switched to Look Keo that came with a 4.5 degrees. My knees are sore around the side just above the patela. Would a 9 degrees Keo cleat (red) solve this issue?
I suspect not. Try fixed cleats. And tweak the fix until it feels right (easier as they don't slide around). I've had no knee trouble with fixed cleats (just ordered my third set having worn 2 sets down completely), I cannot say the same for the floating cleats I have used (3 sets, 2 different types, all bad).
Nice video! I am beginning to think that a potential downside of too much float is that it can make unclipping from the pedals more difficult. I find the yellow Shimano cleats are difficult to unclip because I have to rotate my ankle too much before the cleats meet resistance and let go. It's more of a problem for my left foot which is weaker and less flexible. At least, that's my hypothesis. I am thinking I should adjust the orientation of the left cleat so that it will unclip with less rotation of my ankle (the release tension is already set at the minimum). Or I could switch to a less free-floating cleat. I suspect someone like me wouldn't be able to unclip from speedplay pedals with all that float! Does this make sense? Anyone else have this issue or am I an anatomical fluke? 😲
There isn't a specific pedal system that'll be better for IT Band syndrome, but there are a few things to look out for. Make sure that your knee movement, laterally, is well managed -- it may look like the knee tracks fairly benignly but there are subtle patterns that don't show up well with the naked eye that are indicative of the knee twisting at the wrong time and creating a torsion through the tibia which can irritate the ITB. This is why I don't think visually assessing lateral knee motion with laser lines and the like is useful. Also, be sure that your foot position isn't too extreme during the power phase of your pedal stroke. Particularly that you're not pedaling with your toes pointed down a lot throughout the pedal stroke. This can lead inversion of the foot and through the mechanical chain, put stress on the ITB.
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond, especially with such helpful advice. A couple of questions I have for further clarity is: 1) should I ensure that I use pedals which restrict the float to a lesser degree than current 10° and thus guide the lateral movement of the leg and 2) is there anything I can do with my cleats which attach under the shoe to keep my leg in a straighter more guided position?
Never ridden speedplays so I cannot talk about them but I think Egg Beaters have the worst float. I have never felt good riding them. It is just way to much for me up to the point that with EBs the unclipping point feels so sloppy that they have become the first clipless system that I fell over and hurt my knee with. I like SPDs and even manage to unclip in the worst situations. When riding my track bike which I do almost all the time now I swear on SL pedals though
Yes, there definitely such a thing as too much float - and you will know it when you experience it. The old red Shimano cleat had way too much float. The +/- 3 degrees (Shimano yellow/black) is also way too much IMHO. Fixed cleats are better in every way IMHO and personal experince - your mileage may vary ;)
I wanted to like speedplay but I have a very toe out stance, so using speedplay, my natural stance is almost to the point of disengagement since the cleats can only be installed straight on the shoe. I didn't want to risk clipping out accidentally especially when climbing. My current setup is shimano yellow cleats, angled as much it can, positioned as inboard as possible to increase Q factor and I still use 25mm knee savers.
I have frontal knee pain on my left leg (for apr. 8 months now). I have tried many things, medical exames, and it did not show anything. I had bike fit 1 year before my knee pain started. Since the pain I had two reviews of bike fit, but pain still persists. Probably it is due multiple injuries in the past on my right upper leg (thight). Right muscles are way smaller, so I have to work on that. But I was wondering if perhaps cleat float might solve some problems. I have big pronation. Momentarelly I have 4,5° float. On the bike I feel fine and my feet (as far as I can sense) do not go even to the border with float (inwards or outwards). Does it then even make sense that I would try 9° float cleat? I would not want to make a mistake by puting the cleats in a bad position.
Robert Hozjan Cleat float may be an issue, and in a lot of situations going to as much as 9° is still relatively safe. For many cyclists, the only thing that will occur is they will either use the float or they won't. Excessive float can cause problems in some but most often with the unrestricted 15°-20° (or more) of float that we see with Speedplay pedals. To avoid putting the new cleats in the wrong position, simply mark your existing cleat before removing it -- plus moving to 9° also buys you a little leeway in setting up the cleats correctly.
Thank you for answering. I will try the 9° float. I am a little worried that my "duck" feet (meaning I have very big toe outwards / heel inwards position) will not make problems of rubbing the chainstay with my heel. At the moment I am very close to rubbing and would probably rub already but I thing that 9h position in which my heel is a little up according to my toes, saves me from rubbing. By wearing my overshoes in winter I already have problems with rubbing the chainstays. I have Garmin Vector pedals without spacers, and my crank is already tight with the sensor pod and cannot have spacers so to increase q-factor on pedals is not an option. If cleat float would be the problem for my knee pain, will the knee pain disappear right away or will it takes a couple of rides to fix it? Knee pain starts 1,5-2h into my activity, and when I stop or pedal a little easier then the pain disappears completely. If the problem remains the same, do you recomend that I go back to my 4,5° cleat float immediately due to my problems with chainstay clearance and regarding performance?
@@lancescarborough1 at the same time I had also weak and painful hamstring muscle on the other leg (months earlier I sprained the muscle). When I solved the problems with that muscle, the knee pain on the other leg disapiered 🙂
70% of the population not even riding bikes......then, even among the riders only few %-age has actually clip on pedals.....thus your video is very airy so to speak.........
That is right. Stand up. lift your right or left foot off of the ground. You will notice that your toes turn outward be they the right foot or left. Now imagine that movement being restricted.
![[UNCUT] "บอสณวัฒน์" แฉ! แหล่งซุกเงินแก๊งบอส ขยันผิดที่ไม่กี่ปีก็เข้าคุก l คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ l17ต.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BL56qIfXYZM/mqdefault.jpg)
*Great **Latest.Bike** , good looking, good suspension and love the gearing. I've tested some bikes that were more then twice the price but not as good. Get lots of looks when riding.*
man, i feel like i’m the only one here, but float drives me CRAZY. just grabbed some speedplay pedals and it feels like i’m walking on ice the entire ride, so much so that i’m bashing my ankles on the crankset arm. going to see if i can trade them in and grab some Look/Ultegra pedals w/ 0 float. feels good to be locked in for me
I have 6º float Shimano and i love it.
Float should only allow your feet to rotate naturally when needed.
If correctly set up, your cleats will restrain your movements well enough that the float doesn't actually get to be fully used. Honestly, i cannot stand No Float cleats.
IMO, they are an overuse injury ready to happen.
Those should only be used for people with tons of experience and that had provisional fits done.
Remember that on NO CIRCUMSTANCE was our body designed for repetitive movement without margin for flex and adjustments. Even treadmill runners suffer from overuse because they keep repeating the very same movement without variation thus overusing and stressing the same part of the body.
Float is GOAT.
I’ve ridden and raced the original Speed Plays since 2000. Love all of the float.
I have been riding Speedplay Zero's for nearly a year now. Previously used SPD-SL. The Zero's have up to 15 degrees float. The big advantages (and I mean BIG) of the Speedplays in terms of bike fit for me:
1) On top of the cleat positioning on the shoe, you have an extra 10mm of lateral adjustment to fine tune your q-factor. This can be done precisely and easily by remounting the housing on the plate without affecting anything else.
2) With some road shoes (including my Fizik's), if you need a wider pedal stance it is difficult to get the centreline of the cleat perpendicular to the longitudinal centreline of the shoe without the plate overhanging the shoe. With the Speedplays this doesn't matter. You can mount the cleat at an angle and use the float adjustment to compensate.
3) Speedplay sell a comprehensive range of accessories including extended axles, base plate extensions and wedges to allow for all sorts of adjustment in foot position.
4) Once fitted, you start with maximum float and then dial in the limiting screws over time until the set-up is perfect for you. You could do this with SPD's but it is WAY easier with the Speedplays. One turn of a screw will give you a fractional adjustment in float, either toe-in or heel-in. It would be almost impossible to tune your SPD's using such fine adjustments.
There are some downsides of Speedplay Zero's, but not relating to fit, in my opinion. I am surprised more bike fitters don't recommend them.
I always buy the zero float cleats for my eggbeater pedals. Thosa that have float feel weird. The zero floats do wear a bit soon and they don't feel as fixed as they do at first but just right.
Hi, I understand there is variations in float, but what I want to know for myself when my Wahoo speedplay nano pedals turn up later today is how do I work out how much float I need to set for each foot. Many thanks in advance and much appreciated.
Always used to get some pain in my left knee which was definitely worse with no float. Right was always OK. Started with Time years ago which allowed some float but with some resistance but moved over to Speedplay in 2012 but still not quite right. Getting pedal extenders (to increase Q factor) helped some more as was finding my heel was very close to the crank which in itself was introducing some unnatural rotation to counter it but hopefully have finally cracked with also the maximum green arch support inside S works shoes. Have noticed I do like to waggle my feet a bit when riding from time to time and Speedplay permits this. Also if I go from the hoods to the drops or aerobars I feel my feet rotating slightly as I come forward as if my foot alignment is slightly different. Would be great am sure with no float and perfect body alignment but seems I am not such a person.
Tim Grose Cool that you've figured all that out. Sounds like you're on the right track.
Incidentally the reason that it feels like your feet move differently when you're in the drops or aero may be because the more aggressive torso position may be pushing you close to your limit for pelvic anterior rotation and hip flexion which can affect how you sit on your saddle -- this may lead to variable foot position
I suggest that you try fixed cleats and do so with an open mind. I started with fixed cleats and have tried 2 different floating cleats (3 sets altogether) and 2 sets of fixed cleats. I just ordered my third pair of fixed cleats. The fixed cleats I wore out through long use, the floating cleats I removed after greater or lesser trial periods in disgust. The floating cleats were dangerous to health and safety IMHO, while the fixed cleats give better, more predictable feel, control and power. And, because they are not sliding around all over the place, you can actually work on getting the fit just right - indeed it is important that you do. I think it could be a real eye-opener for you ;)
Float can allow sudden, unpredictable and sometimes violent movements of the heel and, sometimes the knee(s). Accelerating hard or standing pedaling on floating cleats, is risky IMO and will sometimes jolt your knees hard unexpectedly. Releasing with float is less positive, less predictable and less certain - that is my abiding memory of using the old, all-red Shimano floaters for the first time, having happily worn my fixed, black Shimano cleats into the ground. That and a monumental sapping of power.
i switched to assioma pedals.. i do not appreciate the cleats.. they are not as good as shimano.. the whole system is not as enjoyable to clip in and out with.. and my right cleat wanders no matter how tight i go because i have 3 wedges under the cleat. should i just try 2 wedges? (going against my bike fitter's advice). PLEASE I NEED HELP/ADVICE!
When I switched over to Shimano (pedal & shoes) from Look, I tried out the 6deg float (yellow) that came with the shoes. After that first set, I switched over to the blue cleats (1deg) and happy with them.
I switched to Speedplay zero from the SPD pedals around 2012 because my knee did not like be locked down with no allowed movement. The Speedplay Zero float was beneficial for me to help alleviate knee pain; it was not a fit issue either. When I ride my feet likes to move a lot. I like these pedals because I can control the float for the heel or toe (i.e. I like more float at the heel than at the toe). Plus, the double sided entry and light weight was an added benefit...in my opinion. I needed wedges and shims, too. It was the best move I made as far as cleats goes.
Hello Bike Fit Adviser! Tell me please your suggestions about moving cleats towards to the middle of the foot. Is its possible without modify/drilling curent road shoes. I'v reached my max and another 1-2cm backwards will be ideal for me, i realy need that.
FWIW, That rotation of the foot about the horizontal axis that you didn't have a good word for, may be called pronational rotation. Sounds like a name for a Big Bang Theory episode. Great videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Hi Can you do a video about flat feet bike fitting? Thanks
Just returned a set of Speedplay Ultra Lites, did it because there was too much float and I had trouble getting out (25 degrees). Using the Zero's now and it's much better now, I'm able to adjust tem down to the 6 degrees that my old SPD's had (yes, I used MTB pedals on my road bike).
That is true a worn speedplay allows pronation. Which was great until I replaced the cleat and then it felt awful.
I'm new to road biking. Two questions: 1) Of the SPD-SL system, which (Red, Yellow, or Blue)is easier/faster to get out of? 2) Any tips on "how to fall" if you forget/fail to clip-out in time?
Hi Kevin. There is no practical difference to how quickly you get out of the pedal; your foot has to rotate the same amount.
How to fall? Don't. Learn to unclip automatically, as an autonomic response to your desire to put a foot down. Lots of people will tell you that everyone always has a fall when they start using cleats! I think it's equal parts warning, macho teasing, and "I fell so you will too" :-) It is a matter of building muscle memory to pull your feet out of the cleats heel first, so that it's completely automatic. With appropriate practice there is no need to have a fall. I taught my then teenage daughter by having her ride her bike on an indoor trainer while watching TV, and calling "left foot!" or "right foot!" at random intervals until it was completely automatic. She has never fallen.
If you don't have an indoor trainer you could just practice by leaning against a wall and taking your feet out 20 times on each side, then riding 50 meters at a time and taking your feet out before you stop. You'll find you have a favourite foot but practice with both feet.
Cheers
I use mountain bike SPD for my road bike. Easier to get in and out as can clip in on either side. The regular road bike pedals always seemed to be upside down.
@@brianyoungberg9904 Yes, SPD are much easier to use. Road pedals take some getting used to. They are designed to hang with the front pointing upward, so your foot should be moving slightly forward as you clip in. When you have one foot clipped in and start pedaling, if you pedal too quickly then the other pedal will swing up, so when you try to clip in you get it upside down.
So that first pedal stroke needs to be gentle, and the clip-in action should be smooth and well timed :-)
It does take practice. And even then you can loose the rhythm and go back to feeling like a beginner. At which point relax and return to "slow, gentle, rhythm".
Embrace the fall, sometimes you will forget to unclip when riding new. If you think quick start pedaling again and then remove them
Good article, thank you, I was interested in the Speedplay pedals and thoughts, I have always ridden with Look pedals and switched to Speedplay around 4 months ago, more because I liked Speedplay walkable cleats, I never really experienced problems with the Look system, but I am certainly more comfortable on Speedplay, interestingly I have poor pelvic rotation and use a waveform saddle as a result of this, thus proving the theory of Speedplay being more suitable to riders with less flexibility, I have very little float, perhaps around the same as I had with the Look cleats, but never considered the yaw, or sideways movement from the Speedplay system, anyway the certainty work for myself, so much so I have switched all my bikes to Speedplay.
I know this video is about float but you didn't really give Speedplay a fair review.
As long as you don't by the cheapest one they make. "Easy" or "Lite" I forget now as they changed the name. You can limit the float to zero: and unlike Looks and Shimano it doesn't require buying any new cleats. Though to be fair you'd still be saving money buying multiple pairs of cleats for them then buying Speedplays.
I suppose there are two main reason to go with Speedplay over the others. Double sided entry is one and the float abilities as another.
Speedplay Zero is adjustable with the set screws. Light Actions are non-adjustable float.
I've just switched to Speedplay because I like the fact that they are so easy to clip in to without having to look down. However, I also like the limited float being a traditional SPD-SL red/yellow user and sometimes having ACL issues which means I can still ride even if I can't run. My question is, can you reduce or limit the float with Speedplay?
Yes. You can take all of the float out, via the screws. I will assume you figured that out by now though.
I’ve been using Speedplay pedals for seven years after my bike fit. I was having knee pain previously. I need something similar now for CX.
Speedplay Syzr... I've been using them for 4-5yrs
I ran into a problem related to float when switching from Crank Brothers to SPDs. I don't need a lot of float as part of my pedal stroke, but found that my toe-angle changed when going from seated to a sprinting position. With 6 degrees of float, setting the pedals up so that they did not twist my knees meant that they were at the limits of float when riding very aggressively. In my case, they actually came unclipped in a full-sprint resulting in a crash.
I used Shimano 105 with 6 degrees float for a couple of years and now switched to Look Keo that came with a 4.5 degrees. My knees are sore around the side just above the patela. Would a 9 degrees Keo cleat (red) solve this issue?
I suspect not. Try fixed cleats. And tweak the fix until it feels right (easier as they don't slide around). I've had no knee trouble with fixed cleats (just ordered my third set having worn 2 sets down completely), I cannot say the same for the floating cleats I have used (3 sets, 2 different types, all bad).
Why not just go back to Shimano as you didn't get any pain with them.
The word for the twisting action you are describing results in ankle pronation. So I would say "pronation".
can you actually adjust the amount of float in a shimano spd pedal
with different cleats AFAIK
Nice video! I am beginning to think that a potential downside of too much float is that it can make unclipping from the pedals more difficult. I find the yellow Shimano cleats are difficult to unclip because I have to rotate my ankle too much before the cleats meet resistance and let go. It's more of a problem for my left foot which is weaker and less flexible. At least, that's my hypothesis. I am thinking I should adjust the orientation of the left cleat so that it will unclip with less rotation of my ankle (the release tension is already set at the minimum). Or I could switch to a less free-floating cleat. I suspect someone like me wouldn't be able to unclip from speedplay pedals with all that float! Does this make sense? Anyone else have this issue or am I an anatomical fluke? 😲
Yes yellow one sucks..got myself zero float red one. Knees are meant to twist while riding
RIP Bebop pedals. My go to for road and MTB. 20 degrees.
Do you have any advice on pedals and cleats that are good for someone with illiotibial band (IT band) syndrome?
There isn't a specific pedal system that'll be better for IT Band syndrome, but there are a few things to look out for.
Make sure that your knee movement, laterally, is well managed -- it may look like the knee tracks fairly benignly but there are subtle patterns that don't show up well with the naked eye that are indicative of the knee twisting at the wrong time and creating a torsion through the tibia which can irritate the ITB. This is why I don't think visually assessing lateral knee motion with laser lines and the like is useful.
Also, be sure that your foot position isn't too extreme during the power phase of your pedal stroke. Particularly that you're not pedaling with your toes pointed down a lot throughout the pedal stroke. This can lead inversion of the foot and through the mechanical chain, put stress on the ITB.
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond, especially with such helpful advice. A couple of questions I have for further clarity is: 1) should I ensure that I use pedals which restrict the float to a lesser degree than current 10° and thus guide the lateral movement of the leg and 2) is there anything I can do with my cleats which attach under the shoe to keep my leg in a straighter more guided position?
Can you do this with road pedals? Like look pedals
Never ridden speedplays so I cannot talk about them but I think Egg Beaters have the worst float. I have never felt good riding them. It is just way to much for me up to the point that with EBs the unclipping point feels so sloppy that they have become the first clipless system that I fell over and hurt my knee with. I like SPDs and even manage to unclip in the worst situations. When riding my track bike which I do almost all the time now I swear on SL pedals though
I love my speed plays but I do have the float dialed down to around 7 or so degrees of float
Yes, there definitely such a thing as too much float - and you will know it when you experience it. The old red Shimano cleat had way too much float. The +/- 3 degrees (Shimano yellow/black) is also way too much IMHO. Fixed cleats are better in every way IMHO and personal experince - your mileage may vary ;)
Thanks for answering
what are your thoughts on saddle width in relation to sitbones width?
This will actually be my next video, I think....
sweet that would be great!
I wanted to like speedplay but I have a very toe out stance, so using speedplay, my natural stance is almost to the point of disengagement since the cleats can only be installed straight on the shoe. I didn't want to risk clipping out accidentally especially when climbing. My current setup is shimano yellow cleats, angled as much it can, positioned as inboard as possible to increase Q factor and I still use 25mm knee savers.
I have frontal knee pain on my left leg (for apr. 8 months now). I have tried many things, medical exames, and it did not show anything. I had bike fit 1 year before my knee pain started. Since the pain I had two reviews of bike fit, but pain still persists. Probably it is due multiple injuries in the past on my right upper leg (thight). Right muscles are way smaller, so I have to work on that.
But I was wondering if perhaps cleat float might solve some problems. I have big pronation. Momentarelly I have 4,5° float. On the bike I feel fine and my feet (as far as I can sense) do not go even to the border with float (inwards or outwards). Does it then even make sense that I would try 9° float cleat? I would not want to make a mistake by puting the cleats in a bad position.
Robert Hozjan Cleat float may be an issue, and in a lot of situations going to as much as 9° is still relatively safe. For many cyclists, the only thing that will occur is they will either use the float or they won't. Excessive float can cause problems in some but most often with the unrestricted 15°-20° (or more) of float that we see with Speedplay pedals. To avoid putting the new cleats in the wrong position, simply mark your existing cleat before removing it -- plus moving to 9° also buys you a little leeway in setting up the cleats correctly.
Thank you for answering. I will try the 9° float. I am a little worried that my "duck" feet (meaning I have very big toe outwards / heel inwards position) will not make problems of rubbing the chainstay with my heel. At the moment I am very close to rubbing and would probably rub already but I thing that 9h position in which my heel is a little up according to my toes, saves me from rubbing. By wearing my overshoes in winter I already have problems with rubbing the chainstays. I have Garmin Vector pedals without spacers, and my crank is already tight with the sensor pod and cannot have spacers so to increase q-factor on pedals is not an option.
If cleat float would be the problem for my knee pain, will the knee pain disappear right away or will it takes a couple of rides to fix it? Knee pain starts 1,5-2h into my activity, and when I stop or pedal a little easier then the pain disappears completely.
If the problem remains the same, do you recomend that I go back to my 4,5° cleat float immediately due to my problems with chainstay clearance and regarding performance?
@@rhozjan how did it turn out as I am experiencing the same issues.
@@lancescarborough1 at the same time I had also weak and painful hamstring muscle on the other leg (months earlier I sprained the muscle). When I solved the problems with that muscle, the knee pain on the other leg disapiered 🙂
@@rhozjan thank you Robert!
We rode toe straps in the day with no float....
I used to take a file to the slot and give it a little float.
It will be better you show us more video to demonstrate what you talking about in order to easy understand
Back Ground Sound makes it hard to listen
There is some good info here but the jump cut edits in this video are really distracting. I couldn't watch it - only listen.
70% of the population not even riding bikes......then, even among the riders only few %-age has actually clip on pedals.....thus your video is very airy so to speak.........
pendulum
Zero float is the best.
Why?
Try it and you'll know.
KK89 best for some maybe but may wreck other people's knees to have zero float
That is right. Stand up. lift your right or left foot off of the ground. You will notice that your toes turn outward be they the right foot or left. Now imagine that movement being restricted.
I like my zero-float cleats. My shoes have enough natural float for me, and the lack of float in the cleat stabilized my knees.